LexAnger: tapering or no tapering, generic vs. name brand lexapro

[LexAnger]

Dear SG,

 

It's so sweet of you saying so! I am glad the post gave you joy and inspiration!

You are absolutely right that we need to check back here often to either get or provide support to each other for the hardest journey! I will definitely do better in future. I used to try to survive the pains by my own and not update regularly. I feel very grateful to all the great support I received. This second family I was gifted to has a real meaning to my everyday life.

 

I love all the writings by Baylissa! I was following her on Facebook. Thanks for the reminder! I need to redume reading her posts there. I remember each time I read her, I gain hope for full recovery! I actually bought a book by her too. Please let me know if you'd like to have her book. I'm done reading and can send to you- we are close neighbors

 

Hope you are doing well and ready for a great holiday!

Lex

[ladybug]

I responded to you in my thread about it but I am glad to read that you have decided to hold. Like I said over there, most people seem to improve in some way from long holds. I used to worry that I was pooping out from holding too long at a dose, but I'm not sure if I still believe that. I guess they call it tolerance WD? I read the thread here in the benzo forum about it and I'm still not sure where I stand on the issue. Seems to happen more with benzos anyway. I wanted to clarify that when I did that long hold I did not get worse overall, some symptoms did, mostly the DR and mental anxiety while other symptoms, mostly insomnia, improved. So I've decided to keep holding and hope things settle down enough to where I can confidently drop again. I hope things improve for you soon as well.

[LexAnger]

Ladybug, thanks for stopping by!

I totally understand how and why you think the way you think! I has been feeling and doing the same until this round when things collapsed in every areas. After reading your thread earlier I got the question if I reached tolerance level now, but I was almost in danger most of the past months so I had to take the most conservitive approach- holding in hope of things will eventually settle down. I was too scared if it was indeed WD not intolerance, than further decreasing would therotically brought up more WD. Anyway, I'm glad I stayed as I started feeling some stabilization these couple days.

 

I just posted to your thread and hope you are moipving in the right direction and continuous healing!

 

Lex

[LexAnger]

An urgent update, I am in need of quick help again.

 

I have been holding for 100 days until today on 3.2. Severe symptom waves one after another since last hit and during the holding in the order of: severe needling pain, 'irregular heartbeat & severe weakness', 'mental non-functional & extreme fatigue & left side weakness'. While all these symptoms seem lessoning/stabilizing, I was almost knocked off this morning after taking the 1st drop of liquid (take the 3.2 solution over 2 hours with 10 min between each drop). It felt like I was injected with a powerful anesthetics plus something else altering the brain function, very hard to describe but felt also like an electric shock from head to toe, accompanied by immediate sick/weak/shaking sensation. My heart was beating loud and hard too.

 

This is a complete new experience ever, but I do feel in the past weeks that it takes my body lots effort to tolerate each drop. I would feel immediate brain non-functional after each drop. I have an urgent feeling that any day/moment I may have to be forced to CT.

 

My first question: is this a sign of WD tolerance?

And the 2nd question: in case I could not tolerate taking the drug any longer, what should I do, reducing or stopping CT?

 

My sincere appreciation to any thoughts.

Lex

[SquirrellyGirl]

Yikes, Lex, I am so sorry to hear about this - it sounds very scary!  

 

I don't have enough experience to make any suggestions but I just wanted to let you know that I saw your post and I am out here sending you stabilizing vibes!

 

What led you to that system of drops every 10 minutes over two hours, just out of curiosity?  I could see your symptoms being interdose WD, but they are happening right after you take the drops, right, so that makes no sense unless it is sensitivity to the med somehow.   If that means you can't take it anymore,  I am wondering if a switch to whatever equivalency of Prozac would be the next step in lieu of CT?  Haven't got a clue but I'm looking forward to the collective wisdom response!

 

SG

[brassmonkey]

Hi Lex-- I'm so sorry to hear that you're getting such a reaction.  One question, how long do the sensations last?

 

My first reaction is that this is not dose related but is more panic related, the symptoms are consistent with the start of a panic attack. If it were a tolerance issue the symptoms would be more constant through out the day and not just flare up as you take a tiny dose.  The same sort of thing would be happening if you were having an adverse reaction, the symptoms would be very harsh and much more constant.  It's possible that several weeks ago something happened when you took a drop that gave you pause to think, then subconsciously each time you took another drop you'd be looking for something to happen and your mind would grab on to any little twinge.  Compound that unconscious secondary fear over several weeks and bam out of the blue one day it gets you big time.  Breaking that cycle will take some effort on your part, relaxing into each drop, not anticipating, and rolling with, not bracing against, any bad feelings until they go away. The only "nice thing" about panic is that if you don't buy into it, it will dissipate fairly quickly of it's own accord.

 

(((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))

[ladybug]

I agree with Brass. The mind is a powerful thing as is the power of suggestion. I wonder if the way you take your dose might be contributing to how you feel? I remember reading in one of my textbooks that after ingesting an SSRI the levels of serotonin in your brain are changed quickly. This is one reason why the low serotonin=depression theory doesn't fly since many people report that their depression isn't affected until a few weeks on the drug. In light of this fact it could be that several doses over two hours is confusing your brain further. Do you find you are unable to take your dose all at once?

[LexAnger]

Yikes, Lex, I am so sorry to hear about this - it sounds very scary!  

 

I don't have enough experience to make any suggestions but I just wanted to let you know that I saw your post and I am out here sending you stabilizing vibes!

 

What led you to that system of drops every 10 minutes over two hours, just out of curiosity?  I could see your symptoms being interdose WD, but they are happening right after you take the drops, right, so that makes no sense unless it is sensitivity to the med somehow.   If that means you can't take it anymore,  I am wondering if a switch to whatever equivalency of Prozac would be the next step in lieu of CT?  Haven't got a clue but I'm looking forward to the collective wisdom response!

 

SG

Thank you so much SG for your knd support!

I found years ago each time I took the med (as a whole) I got immediate reaction with severe and massive needling pain, so I started spreading dosing over longer times (from 1hour then gradually to 2 hours). That's a good reminder of switching meds instead of CT.

[LexAnger]

Hi Lex-- I'm so sorry to hear that you're getting such a reaction.  One question, how long do the sensations last?

 

My first reaction is that this is not dose related but is more panic related, the symptoms are consistent with the start of a panic attack. If it were a tolerance issue the symptoms would be more constant through out the day and not just flare up as you take a tiny dose.  The same sort of thing would be happening if you were having an adverse reaction, the symptoms would be very harsh and much more constant.  It's possible that several weeks ago something happened when you took a drop that gave you pause to think, then subconsciously each time you took another drop you'd be looking for something to happen and your mind would grab on to any little twinge.  Compound that unconscious secondary fear over several weeks and bam out of the blue one day it gets you big time.  Breaking that cycle will take some effort on your part, relaxing into each drop, not anticipating, and rolling with, not bracing against, any bad feelings until they go away. The only "nice thing" about panic is that if you don't buy into it, it will dissipate fairly quickly of it's own accord.

 

(((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))

Hi Brass, my heart goes to your kindness providin your thoughtfulness and conmfort! Its a big relieve hearing that tolerance/ADR issue should be more constant. The severe reaction this morning lasted about 15-30 mins winding down gradually and the rest drops did not cause the same effects although I have been overall very disoriented and feeling weird entire day.

 

will try to be more conscious about not anticipating. I did not this morning as it never heappen before.

Can I ask for more help with a bit more details about the WD tolerance, how it fels, andtypical symptoms/patterns?

 

Many thanks!

Lex   

[LexAnger]

I agree with Brass. The mind is a powerful thing as is the power of suggestion. I wonder if the way you take your dose might be contributing to how you feel? I remember reading in one of my textbooks that after ingesting an SSRI the levels of serotonin in your brain are changed quickly. This is one reason why the low serotonin=depression theory doesn't fly since many people report that their depression isn't affected until a few weeks on the drug. In light of this fact it could be that several doses over two hours is confusing your brain further. Do you find you are unable to take your dose all at once?

Hi Laybug,

 

Thank you for your continuous support!

I will try to read your thread one more time to learn about your experience about having to reducing due to bad reaction. How do you feel when you in such situations and what are the symptoms?

 

Good thought about the split dosing. I was able to take the whole thing before (2013, somewhere at the very begining of my taper),since I have been doing this way for more than 2 years and currently I am super sensitized, I dont know if its safe to try to take all at once now.

[ladybug]

Wow, that is quite interesting that you began having such a reaction to taking your dose. It does sort of sound like some sort of adverse reaction but you say it levels off after a few hours?

 

As for me I haven't had a reaction like that. The last couple of times I've done long holds it was due to being in a worse than normal wave. Holding too long seemed to worsen my DR and mental anxiety and these improved when I began dropping again but I still experienced waves and windows after. So it's not like it was nothing but improvement. In fact during my really bad patch in 2010 I started experiencing severe hypnic jerks that didn't allow me to sleep even a minute. In desperation I dropped and would notice a temporary improvement in my jerks and other symptoms. But it only lasted two weeks and I'd go downhill again and so drop again. As someone who has always tapered slow and sensibly this terrified me and I prayed to be able to hold longer and once I could hold four weeks without awful symptoms I was so happy! What I'm trying to say is even if one seems to improve with a drop that doesn't mean that sufficient holding time shouldn't be the goal. And if you feel you have held long enough without improvement then any drop you do should be small to test the waters. I'm talking 1-2%.

[Altostrata]

Lex, is this a new batch of liquid? Is it the bottom of a batch of the name-brand liquid?

[LexAnger]

Hi Alto,

 

Yes, it's the very bottom of the 45 day supply of 225 mg/ml.

 

Lex

[Altostrata]

It may have gotten concentrated at the bottom -- too strong. Get a new bottle ASAP.

[LexAnger]

Thanks a lot Alto for taking time and the insight!

I have a new bottle at home, will start it tomorrow.

Lex

[LexAnger]

Wow, that is quite interesting that you began having such a reaction to taking your dose. It does sort of sound like some sort of adverse reaction but you say it levels off after a few hours?

As for me I haven't had a reaction like that. The last couple of times I've done long holds it was due to being in a worse than normal wave. Holding too long seemed to worsen my DR and mental anxiety and these improved when I began dropping again but I still experienced waves and windows after. So it's not like it was nothing but improvement. In fact during my really bad patch in 2010 I started experiencing severe hypnic jerks that didn't allow me to sleep even a minute. In desperation I dropped and would notice a temporary improvement in my jerks and other symptoms. But it only lasted two weeks and I'd go downhill again and so drop again. As someone who has always tapered slow and sensibly this terrified me and I prayed to be able to hold longer and once I could hold four weeks without awful symptoms I was so happy! What I'm trying to say is even if one seems to improve with a drop that doesn't mean that sufficient holding time shouldn't be the goal. And if you feel you have held long enough without improvement then any drop you do should be small to test the waters. I'm talking 1-2%.

Thank you again Ladybug!!

This helps great deal with my understanding of the forced dose reduction scenario. I will take the meds from a new bottle tomorrow as Alto suspected and see is things calm down. Meanwhile, I will remember your observation and watch out more closely about my long hold effects. For This round of wave, it's hard to say, as during the long hold, different new symptoms came up then went away right before a new set of symptoms came then go followed by another. Every time when feeling completely losing the ground, I struggle with the same question if I should go up or down then eventually stay hold too scared to make changes without a direction.

[clearday]

I do feel in the past weeks that it takes my body lots effort to tolerate each drop. I would feel immediate brain non-functional after each drop. I have an urgent feeling that any day/moment I may have to be forced to CT.

 

How are you feeling today?

 

I hope you feel better soon - and thanks for stopping by my thread the other day, I appreciate it!

[LexAnger]

Sorry for the delayed response, Clear! My son came home from Colombia Yesterday and I have been fully occupied until this moment.

I started yesterday with brain non functional etc the normal stuff until 1:30pm when things started improving quite a bit. I was worried earlier if I could make the drive to the airport to pick my son up late evening, but I felt pretty ok the rest of day. Today was another super crazy day catching up with stuff at home both with my son and a little dog I am sitting for a friend so busy that I didn't have time for myself at all. It turned out to a a very good day with only momentary head tension and brain weakness. It's hard to believe I can function almost fully like this cooking, laundry, cleaning, Xmas decor and planing while just 24 hours ago and in the past weeks that I was not functional at all with tons sxs.

 

I don't know if the new bottle of the meds, or the gradual long holds effects, just hard to believe and changed completely my perception about how I am doing, pure insane, how these drugs can make the brain think!

 

I hope this stays as long as I hold

Hope the wave you were having is subsiding and have a good and long window for the holidays!

 

Lex

[LexAnger]

 

I do feel in the past weeks that it takes my body lots effort to tolerate each drop. I would feel immediate brain non-functional after each drop. I have an urgent feeling that any day/moment I may have to be forced to CT.

 

 

How are you feeling today?

 

I hope you feel better soon - and thanks for stopping by my thread the other day, I appreciate it!

I saw a much longer post from you with lots great information from the email notification but only see the 2 lines above, wonder what happened. I am pasting the one I saw from email below.

When I CT Prozac thirteen years ago, I was fine for four months. Then one evening I felt the head to toe sensation, like warm water running through my body. That was how my Prozac WD hell began. After that day, I had two months of severe WD, including the dysautonomia such as difficulty thermoregulating. I then had debilitating fatigue, sensitivity to light, and anhedonia for a couple years. I didn't figure out until many years later that it was all Prozac WD.

 

When I CT Lexapro two years ago, I was fatigued but more or less stable for seven months. Then the severe brain sensations struck out of nowhere, dysautonomia again like heart palpitations and racing heart, and severe insomnia.

 

So for me, the typical WD dysautonomia struck out of nowhere, many months after last dose in each case.

 

I never had any remarkably bad side effects from either Prozac or Lexapro while on them. But once I was off them, the typical WD dysautonomia eventually hit me.

 

It's hard to figure out if the reactions we are having are due to sensitivity to the medication, withdrawal effects from dose reduction, or a combination.

 

Looking back, and judging from all the stories I've read on here, I probably would eventually had these bad reactions even if I slow tapered.

 

I would always recommend a long slow taper to reduce the severity of withdrawal. But it by no means guarantees a smooth ride.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[clearday]

I saw a much longer post from you with lots great information from the email notification but only see the 2 lines above, wonder what happened. 

 

I had deleted it. Since you had been going through a rough time, I thought I'd let you confer with taper specialists to figure out your plan of action.

 

I figured that the info in my post might just cloud the issue. But I'm glad you got something out of it.

 

Glad you're feeling better right now!

[clearday]

 It's hard to believe I can function almost fully like this cooking, laundry, cleaning, Xmas decor and planing while just 24 hours ago and in the past weeks that I was not functional at all with tons sxs.

 

Hope the wave you were having is subsiding and have a good and long window for the holidays!

 

Lex

 

That's why most people don't understand the hell we're going through. One day we are functional and fine, the next day the nervous system is in chaos. 

 

My window is still going well. So, seven days of "lessened" symptoms. Enjoying these days. 

[brassmonkey]

Hi Lex--  I'm glad you're going to get to see your son for a while.  You have just discovered the joys of total distraction, and I hope it keeps up for his entire visit.

 

(((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))

[bubble]

Thank you for sharing this experience Lex! I'm also surprised at how we can bounce to being functional after being almost disintegrated... Try to take it easy though

[LexAnger]

 

I saw a much longer post from you with lots great information from the email notification but only see the 2 lines above, wonder what happened.

 

 

I had deleted it. Since you had been going through a rough time, I thought I'd let you confer with taper specialists to figure out your plan of action.

 

I figured that the info in my post might just cloud the issue. But I'm glad you got something out of it.

 

Glad you're feeling better right now!

Those are valuable experience and insight Clear! I am glad your window is still going well! Feeling well at this specially time enjoying family and friends will add a positive memory for continuous healing!

 

Best,

Lex

[LexAnger]

Hi Lex--  I'm glad you're going to get to see your son for a while.  You have just discovered the joys of total distraction, and I hope it keeps up for his entire visit.

 

(((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))

Thank you dear Brass! I guess so. Even I was kind of skeptical about how much distraction (or anything) can do to touch what we are put into by these drugs, it seems helping somehow. Yeah, my son completed the volunteer teaching in Colombia so he will be home for a while until he find a job away from home. I'm keeping my fingers crossed to be as well as possible so not to worry him too much.

 

Hope your recovery from the recent wave stay strong and last long!

 

Merry Xmas and happy new year!

Lex

[LexAnger]

Thank you for sharing this experience Lex! I'm also surprised at how we can bounce to being functional after being almost disintegrated... Try to take it easy though

Hi Bubble,

Thank you for your kindest reminder! Yeah, I tend to overwork myself when I'm feeling ok even for just couple hours. I do need to be more displined as I can lose my routine for diet, sleep, workout etc.

 

Hope you are feeling much better now completely recovered from the misdose a while ago.

 

Lex

[LexAnger]

Just a quick update following up with the one I did yesterday. I had a fair day today not as good as yesterday but much better than days/weeks before. I don't know for sure what the cause, but feeling the combination of long hold (3.5 months) and huge distraction at home. I was very concerned about the small Xmas party I was planning for just two days ago but now I feel I should have no problem to handle it (single mom in charge of everything).

 

Thank you all my dear friends I wish I could invite you all for a special party in my place and we can behave whatever the drugs made us still feeling completely comfortable.

 

Merry Christmas and happy new year!

Lex

[brassmonkey]

Hi Lex-- heavy distraction does take a huge amount of energy, so be sure to give yourself plenty of breaks so you don't over do it.

[LexAnger]

Thank you so much Brass! You are so right! I didn't get good sleep last night with a visitor to my son stopped by late evening and stayed up to past midnight. I woke up too in middle thinking about the Xmas dinner I need to prepare. Still was able to take care lots cooking etc today but ceratainly feel drain of the energy and stress. This is why I keep telling family and friends that the best situation is for me to live alone even they thought having someone around can help with both house works and mood. I hope I can survive the holiday fine. I do feel I own everyone else a good Xmas gathering.

 

You take it easy too.

Lex

[brassmonkey]

Don't sweat thing s Lex, the celebration will happen and the dinner will be fine.  The important thing is to be in the moment and enjoy it.

 

Christmas and New Year (((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))

[LexAnger]

Thanks again dear Brass! I appreciate all your kindest concern and message!

Wish you a very merry Xmas and a happy, healthy, prospective new year!

 

Love and hugs!

Lex

[LexAnger]

Before I have chance for more details, I would like to do a quick update before the year ends, to give all of us hope and encouragement.

 

The past 10 days have been a miracle (100 day mark since the last cut/huge hit). Most days I was highly if not fully functional Hosting for my son and guests for holidays. Some days I dint feel any sxs at all, was able to handle irregular sleep hours, head spine house works etc. I am still doing pretty good now even with slight head numb/foggy sometimes during the day.

 

I heard lots great news already from others these couple days. Hope everyone is doing better and better each day and year!

 

Thanks all for being my companies in this incredible journey. So much gratitude from bottom of my heart especially those who followed helped me with supports and love!

 

Happy new year!!!

Love to all!

Lex

[SquirrellyGirl]

That is wonderful, Lex!!

 

I hope 2016 is a year of continued healing and freedom from Lexapro for you!

 

SG

[nz11]

Wonderful stuff. Seconded.

Even better days are yet to come.

[LexAnger]

Thanks so much SG and NZ!

Wish all of us best luck in the new year winning the battle!

[bubble]

This is really so amazing Lex. So happy for you and all of us. Joining in your wish