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Dr. William Walsh, Mensah Medical, and Walsh Institute (succeeds Pheiffer Institute)


Meimeiquest

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Would you call feeling bad because you were sick a "mental illness"?

 

well, yea, if it manifests itself mentally - in bad thoughts and bad feelings. 

 

again, it's a matter of how we call things. I believe that big part of "mental illnesses" are in fact based on physiological disorders. the fact that today nobody looks at those and gives a patient psychoactive drugs instead, is just plain wrong. I'm so glad that there are people in the world who are investigating the physical causes of mental illness - be it nutritional deficiencies or genetically different needs for nutritions, or some other physical illnesses that do affect people mentally.

 

I agree that mr Walsh is maybe tweaking how he talks about things so that it would catch the attention of people who are stuck in todays paradigma of inbalance of neurotransmitters etc. changing psychiatry and the mindset of people is HUGE step, and most of the people are not ready to jump, they need small steps. 

 

in the light of this interesting topic, has anybody read James Greenblatt's book "The Breakthrough Depression Solution: A Personalized 9-step Method for Beating the Physical Causes of Your Depression"? it's very interesting and practical, and it also gives information about different research that has been done in the context of depression and nutrients. 

 

and what do you think about this research on rats, for example? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ivhmjp3eyTw I understand, that it's done for one specific product - but the product is basically vitamins and minerals in high quantities. I find it amazing that the brain injuries of rats were reversed! amazing. 

 

I believe that good nutrition is very important for brain. and many other issues in body can put things off balance, specially things that affect digestion. 

in 2002- 0,5 tablet cipramil for half a year, ended it uneventfully. in 2006 - citalopram for half a year, ended in horrific state, ditched the drugs CT. 2007-2008 not feeling well but drug free. in 2008 prozac 20mg + quetiapine 25mg. 2009 tried to stop, ended up in hole after couple of months, started zoloft. 2009-2011 zoloft 50mg. went to 25mg in 2011 summer, it resulted in half a year horrible suffering. reinstated, changed drugs, nothing happened. by 2012 beginning suddenly felt great and CT meds. after 4 months came suddenly most horrible human suffering that's possible. was started on prozac and questiapine. started tapering slowly, GFCF diet and Hardy Nutritionals vitamins in 2013 summer. 

current medications: 1) fluoxetine and quetiapine since Aug 2012; 2) Daily Essential Nutrients by Hardy Nutritionals 7 capsules / since May 2013 + omega3; 3) Gluten-free-casein-free diet since june 2013

Started withdrawing slowly since april 2013. Mostly around 10% cuts. 

April'13 - March'14: fluoxetine 40mg -> 19,5mg; quetiapine 50mg -> 40mg
April'14-March'15: fluoxetine 19,5mg -> 14,4mg; quetiapine 40mg -> 22mg

April'15-March'16: fluoxetine 14,4mg -> 7,4mg; quetiapine 22mg -> 15mg

April'16-March'17: fluoxetine 7,4mg -> 5,0mg; quetiapine 15mg -> 7,25mg

April'17-March'18: fluoxetine 5,0mg -> 4,0mg; quetiapine 7,25mg -> 0 (as of 1st Feb 2018)!!!!

April´18-March´19: fluoxetine 4,0mg - > 2,3mg. Jumped off fluoxetine 1,4mg due to pregnancy in July 2019. Oct 2019 severe withdrawal syndrome started.

Took mistakenly a complex for hormonal support that included pregnenolone dec2019-april2020. Stopped it april 2020 and immediately severe akathisia started. Have had life threatening akathisia since, 100% disabled, suicidal, very hard to hold on. 

 

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That is a promotional video from a supplement company. I am very skeptical of such claims.

 

There are many alternative therapies capitalizing on the huge mental illness industry initially created by pharmaceutical companies to sell psychiatric drugs.

 

(By the way, NutraTek is a new venture of David Hardy, former president of TrueHope. The two companies seem intertwined. TrueHope, manufacturer of EmpowerPlus, has been marketing to the "mental illness" market for years. They offer advice about withdrawal that we do not recommend, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1371-no-recommendations-for-commercial-programs-to-assist-withdrawal/ and other discussions about TrueHope.)

 

If you want to believe these claims, you're free to do so. If you want to believe that feeling bad because you're ill is a mental illness -- that's a very odd perspective with which I deeply disagree, but you're free to believe that, too.

 

If we're in an area where words don't mean anything, there's no grounds for continuing discussion. We're in the realm of faith, which is beyond reason.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that much "mental illness" is misdiagnosed physical illness, nutritional deficiencies, or adverse reactions to drugs etc.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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if your position is that mental illness does not exist, and that nutritional supplementation or treating physical conditions does not help any of those mental illnesses, then yes - I think we have to agree to disagree. 

in 2002- 0,5 tablet cipramil for half a year, ended it uneventfully. in 2006 - citalopram for half a year, ended in horrific state, ditched the drugs CT. 2007-2008 not feeling well but drug free. in 2008 prozac 20mg + quetiapine 25mg. 2009 tried to stop, ended up in hole after couple of months, started zoloft. 2009-2011 zoloft 50mg. went to 25mg in 2011 summer, it resulted in half a year horrible suffering. reinstated, changed drugs, nothing happened. by 2012 beginning suddenly felt great and CT meds. after 4 months came suddenly most horrible human suffering that's possible. was started on prozac and questiapine. started tapering slowly, GFCF diet and Hardy Nutritionals vitamins in 2013 summer. 

current medications: 1) fluoxetine and quetiapine since Aug 2012; 2) Daily Essential Nutrients by Hardy Nutritionals 7 capsules / since May 2013 + omega3; 3) Gluten-free-casein-free diet since june 2013

Started withdrawing slowly since april 2013. Mostly around 10% cuts. 

April'13 - March'14: fluoxetine 40mg -> 19,5mg; quetiapine 50mg -> 40mg
April'14-March'15: fluoxetine 19,5mg -> 14,4mg; quetiapine 40mg -> 22mg

April'15-March'16: fluoxetine 14,4mg -> 7,4mg; quetiapine 22mg -> 15mg

April'16-March'17: fluoxetine 7,4mg -> 5,0mg; quetiapine 15mg -> 7,25mg

April'17-March'18: fluoxetine 5,0mg -> 4,0mg; quetiapine 7,25mg -> 0 (as of 1st Feb 2018)!!!!

April´18-March´19: fluoxetine 4,0mg - > 2,3mg. Jumped off fluoxetine 1,4mg due to pregnancy in July 2019. Oct 2019 severe withdrawal syndrome started.

Took mistakenly a complex for hormonal support that included pregnenolone dec2019-april2020. Stopped it april 2020 and immediately severe akathisia started. Have had life threatening akathisia since, 100% disabled, suicidal, very hard to hold on. 

 

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I think you all know that the quality if my mental health is inversely proportional to how much I post here, so for what it's worth...

 

That book, Nutrient Power, says this, because they feel awkward about the term mental illness, but words do mean things, that "The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language defines mental illness as 'Any of various conditions of impairment of an individual's normal cognitive, emotional, or behavioral functioning, and caused by social, psychological, biochemical, genetic, or other factors, such as infection or trauma.'"

 

The term that makes me crazy (pardon the pun) is behavioral health...like I just need to shape up and behave, and all that matters is how I act.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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What does "impairment" mean in that dictionary definition?

 

Is having any negative feeling a mental illness?

 

Being unhappy because you're ill is not a mental illness. Grieving because your mother died is not a mental illness. Being distressed because your marriage is heading towards divorce is not a mental illness. Being sad because you have cancer is not a mental illness.

 

If you think the above are all mental illnesses, yes, we have profound differences in opinion.

 

We are in an era when anything but feeling chipper and ready to work is a mental illness. Many of you have suffered misdiagnosis, mismedication, overmedication, and adverse effects such as withdrawal syndrome because of medicalization of normal emotion.

 

Y'all can continue to split this hair, but I'm not going to discuss it any longer.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Being unhappy because you're ill is not a mental illness. Grieving because your mother died is not a mental illness. Being distressed because your marriage is heading towards divorce is not a mental illness. Being sad because you have cancer is not a mental illness.

 

If you think the above are all mental illnesses, yes, we have profound differences in opinion.

 

 

I've seen drug-naive people who are so depressed they cannot work and are suicidal, and there are no significant outside reasons. 

in 2002- 0,5 tablet cipramil for half a year, ended it uneventfully. in 2006 - citalopram for half a year, ended in horrific state, ditched the drugs CT. 2007-2008 not feeling well but drug free. in 2008 prozac 20mg + quetiapine 25mg. 2009 tried to stop, ended up in hole after couple of months, started zoloft. 2009-2011 zoloft 50mg. went to 25mg in 2011 summer, it resulted in half a year horrible suffering. reinstated, changed drugs, nothing happened. by 2012 beginning suddenly felt great and CT meds. after 4 months came suddenly most horrible human suffering that's possible. was started on prozac and questiapine. started tapering slowly, GFCF diet and Hardy Nutritionals vitamins in 2013 summer. 

current medications: 1) fluoxetine and quetiapine since Aug 2012; 2) Daily Essential Nutrients by Hardy Nutritionals 7 capsules / since May 2013 + omega3; 3) Gluten-free-casein-free diet since june 2013

Started withdrawing slowly since april 2013. Mostly around 10% cuts. 

April'13 - March'14: fluoxetine 40mg -> 19,5mg; quetiapine 50mg -> 40mg
April'14-March'15: fluoxetine 19,5mg -> 14,4mg; quetiapine 40mg -> 22mg

April'15-March'16: fluoxetine 14,4mg -> 7,4mg; quetiapine 22mg -> 15mg

April'16-March'17: fluoxetine 7,4mg -> 5,0mg; quetiapine 15mg -> 7,25mg

April'17-March'18: fluoxetine 5,0mg -> 4,0mg; quetiapine 7,25mg -> 0 (as of 1st Feb 2018)!!!!

April´18-March´19: fluoxetine 4,0mg - > 2,3mg. Jumped off fluoxetine 1,4mg due to pregnancy in July 2019. Oct 2019 severe withdrawal syndrome started.

Took mistakenly a complex for hormonal support that included pregnenolone dec2019-april2020. Stopped it april 2020 and immediately severe akathisia started. Have had life threatening akathisia since, 100% disabled, suicidal, very hard to hold on. 

 

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So yesterday I went to Mensah Medical and stopped at McDonald's to use their wifi for along post....that did not send. It was a tough and hopeful day, leaving me pretty drained, so this may come in pieces.

 

First, I almost hesitate to post anything, because I know this program is financially unavailable to many people, especially for those don't have the option of borrowing money. When you think of highly specialized doctors and medicines, the cost isn't that high, it's just that insurance doesn't touch most of it. So I will start with something from Nutrient Power (NP): The most helpful supplement for general mental health is zinc. The lowest zinc dose on their website is zinc piccolate 20mg from Douglas Labs, it's on Amazon. The visit was $750 and the initial lab work $500. The other bad news is that although I have a lot of exposure to alternative medicine and know some of its pitfalls, I will admit that Dr. Mensah is very charismatic and could probably sell anyone anything. I am going to pursue this, but I can't guarantee that any of this is the truth.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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Meimeiquest,

 

I understand where you are coming from and hope you keep us updated on your situation.

 

Heck, I am scheduled for a full scale sleep study in 3 weeks and I have no idea if that is the truth or not.   They wanted to schedule it even before they knew I had apnea which I found to be curious.   I think in some ways, the only difference between our situations are cost since most of mine is covered through insurance.

 

By the way, I thought it was ironic you tried to post from McDonald's after going to an altnerative health center. :)

 

I hope you find the help you  are lookng for.

 

CS

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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I understand as well. I'm taking daily essential nutrients from hardynutritionals, and this is also expensive. but I felt that I really had run down all the other options, and needed to try. so far I don't regret. but I know I'm lucky that I can afford that. I've kind of planned it to my fixed expenses. 

in 2002- 0,5 tablet cipramil for half a year, ended it uneventfully. in 2006 - citalopram for half a year, ended in horrific state, ditched the drugs CT. 2007-2008 not feeling well but drug free. in 2008 prozac 20mg + quetiapine 25mg. 2009 tried to stop, ended up in hole after couple of months, started zoloft. 2009-2011 zoloft 50mg. went to 25mg in 2011 summer, it resulted in half a year horrible suffering. reinstated, changed drugs, nothing happened. by 2012 beginning suddenly felt great and CT meds. after 4 months came suddenly most horrible human suffering that's possible. was started on prozac and questiapine. started tapering slowly, GFCF diet and Hardy Nutritionals vitamins in 2013 summer. 

current medications: 1) fluoxetine and quetiapine since Aug 2012; 2) Daily Essential Nutrients by Hardy Nutritionals 7 capsules / since May 2013 + omega3; 3) Gluten-free-casein-free diet since june 2013

Started withdrawing slowly since april 2013. Mostly around 10% cuts. 

April'13 - March'14: fluoxetine 40mg -> 19,5mg; quetiapine 50mg -> 40mg
April'14-March'15: fluoxetine 19,5mg -> 14,4mg; quetiapine 40mg -> 22mg

April'15-March'16: fluoxetine 14,4mg -> 7,4mg; quetiapine 22mg -> 15mg

April'16-March'17: fluoxetine 7,4mg -> 5,0mg; quetiapine 15mg -> 7,25mg

April'17-March'18: fluoxetine 5,0mg -> 4,0mg; quetiapine 7,25mg -> 0 (as of 1st Feb 2018)!!!!

April´18-March´19: fluoxetine 4,0mg - > 2,3mg. Jumped off fluoxetine 1,4mg due to pregnancy in July 2019. Oct 2019 severe withdrawal syndrome started.

Took mistakenly a complex for hormonal support that included pregnenolone dec2019-april2020. Stopped it april 2020 and immediately severe akathisia started. Have had life threatening akathisia since, 100% disabled, suicidal, very hard to hold on. 

 

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On withdrawal: They think the drop a bit, crash, recover, rinse and repeat is entirely normal, and there's nothing else that can be done. But if the patient doesn't recover, there is a biochemical issue that needs addressed. That is normally the case, if the patient was put on medicine for an appropriate, real reason. Virtually all pts. come on psych mess. They start supplements, then when the pt. is more stable, start drug reductions while continuing to normalize the biochemical status. So they have a lot of experience taking people off meds. They have never identified a case of permanent damage from drugs/withdrawal. They say WD comes from two things, the whole neuroreceptor issue, and a temporary loss of communication between cells, especially when multiple drugs are used. The drunk cop running a parking lot analogy...everything is crazy, but the cop isn't damaged and order will gradually return as he sobers up.

 

From his videos, the crazy, immediate side effects are from giving SSRI's to people who are over methylated and already have high serotonin. Post-partum acute problems are usually caused or exacerbated by high copper levels when the levels don't drop properly after delivery.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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very, very interesting information, thanks for sharing!

btw hardynutritionals advise withdrawing but have never pushed me to go too fast, and I listen to my own body, and am going down very slowly. I do feel that I have healed underneath the drugs very much! I believe I will be much better as the dosages will go down. 

in 2002- 0,5 tablet cipramil for half a year, ended it uneventfully. in 2006 - citalopram for half a year, ended in horrific state, ditched the drugs CT. 2007-2008 not feeling well but drug free. in 2008 prozac 20mg + quetiapine 25mg. 2009 tried to stop, ended up in hole after couple of months, started zoloft. 2009-2011 zoloft 50mg. went to 25mg in 2011 summer, it resulted in half a year horrible suffering. reinstated, changed drugs, nothing happened. by 2012 beginning suddenly felt great and CT meds. after 4 months came suddenly most horrible human suffering that's possible. was started on prozac and questiapine. started tapering slowly, GFCF diet and Hardy Nutritionals vitamins in 2013 summer. 

current medications: 1) fluoxetine and quetiapine since Aug 2012; 2) Daily Essential Nutrients by Hardy Nutritionals 7 capsules / since May 2013 + omega3; 3) Gluten-free-casein-free diet since june 2013

Started withdrawing slowly since april 2013. Mostly around 10% cuts. 

April'13 - March'14: fluoxetine 40mg -> 19,5mg; quetiapine 50mg -> 40mg
April'14-March'15: fluoxetine 19,5mg -> 14,4mg; quetiapine 40mg -> 22mg

April'15-March'16: fluoxetine 14,4mg -> 7,4mg; quetiapine 22mg -> 15mg

April'16-March'17: fluoxetine 7,4mg -> 5,0mg; quetiapine 15mg -> 7,25mg

April'17-March'18: fluoxetine 5,0mg -> 4,0mg; quetiapine 7,25mg -> 0 (as of 1st Feb 2018)!!!!

April´18-March´19: fluoxetine 4,0mg - > 2,3mg. Jumped off fluoxetine 1,4mg due to pregnancy in July 2019. Oct 2019 severe withdrawal syndrome started.

Took mistakenly a complex for hormonal support that included pregnenolone dec2019-april2020. Stopped it april 2020 and immediately severe akathisia started. Have had life threatening akathisia since, 100% disabled, suicidal, very hard to hold on. 

 

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From his videos, the crazy, immediate side effects are from giving SSRI's to people who are over methylated and already have high serotonin.

 

 

Red flag here -- you can't have high serotonin unless you have a rare condition called carcinoid syndrome http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003562.htm Personally, I would not trust a practitioner who attempted to treat this with supplements.

 

There is no way to measure serotonin in a brain that's alive.

 

What is their tapering method?

 

Many alternative practitioners claim their supplement programs enable people who have had difficulty coming off psychiatric drugs to quit fairly quickly. I've personally seen this fail.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I don't know enough to respond well. If anyone wants to know something, there is a "contact us" button on their website. As far as tapering, my impression was that there isn't a schedule for tapering, it is drop, get sick, recover, repeat. I did ask about Prozac, because of my sister, and he said every SSRI has to be tapered.

 

I was surprised that the dr.did not even blink when, during the review of symptoms, she asked if I had any joint pain, and I said I had just finished tapering metoprolol, and several joints had started hurting during the end of the taper, but I thought maybe they were starting to improve. She just calmly said, "So there are some epichondral issues that will be fading" and went on to the next question.

 

Regarding folic acid, he said methyl folate does add another methyl group. He said that while that is a good thing and it donates that methyl group to the cytoplasm, "what most doctors don't know" is that it pulls ten from the nucleus, which is where the gene expression takes place, so it can do more harm than good, which is why they don't methylate anything. Regarding genetic testing, he said knowing a bit of the original gene code means nothing, what matters is the whole gene code working together and the effect of epigenetics, which is mostly lifestyle stuff. They really don't want to discuss a "diagnosis" until they see the lab work, but he said I have many hard-wired characteristics of an overmethylater, but it seemed I was badly under methylated. No one is born 100% balanced, everyone leans a bit one way or the other. At the end, I said jokingly (this will probably only make sense if you have dabbled in alternative medicine'), "So you don't think I have adrenal fatigue?" They laughed, then Dr. Bowman said wryly, "You might have adrenal fatigue from all that norepinephrine, but that's not important. What's important is that we get to what's causing it."

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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It's possible he's developed some effective treatments from observation, and rationalizes a reason why they work that doesn't hold together as a theoretical framework. I hope this is the case and he pulls something out of the hat for you.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Thanks for the good wishes, Alto. I remembered how they measure serotonin...it is either proportionate or inversely proportionate to whole blood histamine, a blood test.

 

I haven't been on SA too much lately...it just hurts my heart to see so many posts reading like symptom checklists of things that they treat. But I will say that the lifestyle things we discuss here are probably the next best things, and even they would say the negative thought and behavioral patterns that illness brings have to be repaired in addition to nutrient therapy.

 

So I will write about my own experiment with biomed therapy on my own thread. It is entitled Meimeiquest: My Introduction.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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Ummmm....they are promising to treat conditions for which there is high demand that is not being met by conventional medicine. It brings in business.

 

Please keep us posted on how you're doing.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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Not even promising. You have to sign a form that you understand results are not guaranteed. I hope something very clear happens, the worst is when it is ambiguous.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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It would be so wonderful if they help you, meimei. And it would be wonderful if they could deliver for all of us. It hurts my heart, too, to see so many people suffering with so few treatments available.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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here's a piece of news about treatment of ADHD with micronutrients. looks so promising! http://www.3news.co.nz/Nutrients-could-help-ADHD--study/tabid/1160/articleID/330230/Default.aspx#.UurmI7DxIPI.facebook

in 2002- 0,5 tablet cipramil for half a year, ended it uneventfully. in 2006 - citalopram for half a year, ended in horrific state, ditched the drugs CT. 2007-2008 not feeling well but drug free. in 2008 prozac 20mg + quetiapine 25mg. 2009 tried to stop, ended up in hole after couple of months, started zoloft. 2009-2011 zoloft 50mg. went to 25mg in 2011 summer, it resulted in half a year horrible suffering. reinstated, changed drugs, nothing happened. by 2012 beginning suddenly felt great and CT meds. after 4 months came suddenly most horrible human suffering that's possible. was started on prozac and questiapine. started tapering slowly, GFCF diet and Hardy Nutritionals vitamins in 2013 summer. 

current medications: 1) fluoxetine and quetiapine since Aug 2012; 2) Daily Essential Nutrients by Hardy Nutritionals 7 capsules / since May 2013 + omega3; 3) Gluten-free-casein-free diet since june 2013

Started withdrawing slowly since april 2013. Mostly around 10% cuts. 

April'13 - March'14: fluoxetine 40mg -> 19,5mg; quetiapine 50mg -> 40mg
April'14-March'15: fluoxetine 19,5mg -> 14,4mg; quetiapine 40mg -> 22mg

April'15-March'16: fluoxetine 14,4mg -> 7,4mg; quetiapine 22mg -> 15mg

April'16-March'17: fluoxetine 7,4mg -> 5,0mg; quetiapine 15mg -> 7,25mg

April'17-March'18: fluoxetine 5,0mg -> 4,0mg; quetiapine 7,25mg -> 0 (as of 1st Feb 2018)!!!!

April´18-March´19: fluoxetine 4,0mg - > 2,3mg. Jumped off fluoxetine 1,4mg due to pregnancy in July 2019. Oct 2019 severe withdrawal syndrome started.

Took mistakenly a complex for hormonal support that included pregnenolone dec2019-april2020. Stopped it april 2020 and immediately severe akathisia started. Have had life threatening akathisia since, 100% disabled, suicidal, very hard to hold on. 

 

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The placebo effect is a wonderful thing, particularly in vaguely defined conditions such as ADHD.

 

If taking a multivitamin makes "ADHD" disappear, what's the harm?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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the study had a placebo control group, therefore the results are not placebo effect. 

 

but I understand that your belief system is just very different.

in 2002- 0,5 tablet cipramil for half a year, ended it uneventfully. in 2006 - citalopram for half a year, ended in horrific state, ditched the drugs CT. 2007-2008 not feeling well but drug free. in 2008 prozac 20mg + quetiapine 25mg. 2009 tried to stop, ended up in hole after couple of months, started zoloft. 2009-2011 zoloft 50mg. went to 25mg in 2011 summer, it resulted in half a year horrible suffering. reinstated, changed drugs, nothing happened. by 2012 beginning suddenly felt great and CT meds. after 4 months came suddenly most horrible human suffering that's possible. was started on prozac and questiapine. started tapering slowly, GFCF diet and Hardy Nutritionals vitamins in 2013 summer. 

current medications: 1) fluoxetine and quetiapine since Aug 2012; 2) Daily Essential Nutrients by Hardy Nutritionals 7 capsules / since May 2013 + omega3; 3) Gluten-free-casein-free diet since june 2013

Started withdrawing slowly since april 2013. Mostly around 10% cuts. 

April'13 - March'14: fluoxetine 40mg -> 19,5mg; quetiapine 50mg -> 40mg
April'14-March'15: fluoxetine 19,5mg -> 14,4mg; quetiapine 40mg -> 22mg

April'15-March'16: fluoxetine 14,4mg -> 7,4mg; quetiapine 22mg -> 15mg

April'16-March'17: fluoxetine 7,4mg -> 5,0mg; quetiapine 15mg -> 7,25mg

April'17-March'18: fluoxetine 5,0mg -> 4,0mg; quetiapine 7,25mg -> 0 (as of 1st Feb 2018)!!!!

April´18-March´19: fluoxetine 4,0mg - > 2,3mg. Jumped off fluoxetine 1,4mg due to pregnancy in July 2019. Oct 2019 severe withdrawal syndrome started.

Took mistakenly a complex for hormonal support that included pregnenolone dec2019-april2020. Stopped it april 2020 and immediately severe akathisia started. Have had life threatening akathisia since, 100% disabled, suicidal, very hard to hold on. 

 

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rapunzel, there are many, many "alternative" practices with shaky but scientific-sounding documentation that are making very good money off desperate people, people who want to believe in miracles.

 

The study you point to is yet another sponsored by TrueHope to bolster claims for EmpowerPlus http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/820001

They conducted the first double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trial of a broad-spectrum micronutrient formula called EMPowerplus in adults with ADHD.

 

EMPowerplus contains 36 ingredients (14 vitamins, 16 minerals, 3 amino acids, and 3 antioxidants). According to its makers, TrueHope Nutritional Support, EMPowerplus "works by giving the brain the right balance of vitamins and trace minerals on a regular basis."

 

 

See the site policy on this here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1371-no-recommendations-for-commercial-programs-to-assist-withdrawal/

 

I truly do not want this site to be a place where these scams are taken seriously and discussed at length. I do not want to promote them in any way.

 

If you respect my beliefs, please take such discussion elsewhere.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 1 month later...
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Whoa, Meimei, you are paying a steep price for this stuff.  I've listened to some Mensah podcasts, and I think my "integrative Doc" is keen on Walsh, but also does her own homework (i.e., she's not a dyed in the wool follower).  She is net $140 a visit, I've seen her 3 times.  The blood tests are funkier, that's gone about $400.  Finally, something is cheaper in Australia!  

 

I agree with you, I think Mensah could sell fridges to Eskimos, but his stuff "sounds good," and he does seem sincere.  

 

It's a realm where the ONLY scientific info is "case study" based, though Dr. Walsh's database sounds like something - and a lot of work went into it.  But if you are looking for patterns in a database, you are likely to find the patterns you are looking for.....patient testimony is powerful, but still is only case study.

 

I'm still somewhat confused from my visits to the Integrative Walsh style doc, but - she seems confident, she doesn't blink an eye at the lithium thing, and when I look in her eyes, I can see her working out chemical reactions of hormones, proteins, enzymes, etc.  She doesn't know what to make of me, though.  She told me early on, that her patients are "pretty clue-y." but I don't think she was expecting as clue-y as me. 

 

Like:  pyroluria.  I said, "I went and researched this . . ." and she said, "you won't find much," and that was so not the case (as y'all know!).  I had a whole page of questions about it.  And she did address them quite thoroughly. 

 

It's weird, like going out of the house naked into the street.  It feels wrong, but I couldn't tell you why.  I've actually been a bit depressed from it because it is so brain bending.

 

I'm hoping you posted your test results on your intro - I went looking for it, and clueless as I am, couldn't find it.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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  • 2 months later...

Mensah has come out with a supplement that contains what they think everyone needs for brain/body health. They developed it for people to take after their blood tests while waiting for their "personalized" supplements (which can take six weeks). For what it's worth, this is what it contains: vitamin C 500 mg, vitamin D 1500 units, pyridoxine HCl 50mg (vitamin 6), pyridoxal-5-phosphate 25mg, zinc picolinate 25 mg, selenium (as selenomethionine) 15 mcg.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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  • 3 weeks later...

http://www.thenourishedpsychologist.com/pyroluria/

 

This link was in Mensah Medical's FB feed today. You can get testing on your own at www.pyroluria.com if desired. We have a high-strung daughter, not mine genetically, who tested over 10x normal for this test.

 

Please understand I am not affiliated in any way, I just long for help for all of us. And I would point out that while this treatment has really helped me, it has not made tapering easier.

 

Edit: And I am really proud of myself for posting a link on my iPad :)

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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  • 3 months later...

Upcoming Mensah webinar on nutrition/detox. samanthagilbert.com/debunking-the-detox-myth/

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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Please let us note that pyroluria was hypothesized by Dr. Abram Hoffer in the '60s, respectfully investigated, and discarded by everyone except some alternative practitioners: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/pyroluria-and-orthomolecular-psychiatry/

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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Part of the problem is that the substance measured in the urine is exquisitely sensitive to light and heat. Their lab only accepts samples one day a week because of the lighting issue. When you collect a specimen, you have to immediately freeze it, and it is obviously dark in the freezer. It would be extremely easy for a lab to "screw up."

 

Another issue is that Dr. Hoofer postulated that overmethylation, requiring high dose niacin therapy, was THE cause of schizophrenia. They now feel it is the cause of SOME cases. Incidentslly, in their records, 5% of people with schizoohrenia simply have celiac disease. That is heartbreaking to me, that this possibility is so overlooked. This is very recent science, lacking the support that many researchers receive and need, and of course it can't all be right, just as in all research. Their journal has been banned from Medljne, so that limits discussion.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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Alto, I so appreciate the give and take on this. Because of all the problems in my family, I ran into The Pheiffer Institute in my web searches many years ago, and I thought their ideas were completely unbelievable, extremely fringe. I totally, totally understand that reaction. So I am pretty impressed that you even allow anything about this to be posted.

 

For what it's worth, this link is to my current pdoc's blog. The two most recent entries are about orthomolecular psychiatry. http://www.firstnopharm.com(if you keep reading, you will also see that he is a fan of True Hope, so there's that.)

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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meimei, this topic is here out of respect for you.

 

If the kryptopyrroles are so very delicate, how did Dr. Hoffer find them more than 50 years ago? And why did experiments fail to replicate his findings?

 

As we both know, when you have a massive list of symptoms attributed to a condition, as in http://www.firstnopharm.com/2014/pyrrole-mania/, and that condition is treated by trial-and-error with only successes tabulated, what you have is a collection of anecdotes skewed by observer error.

 

"Pyroluria" becomes a wastebasket synonym for "whatever."

 

I am very sad that we cannot trust medicine, conventional or alternative, for accurate diagnosis and effective treatment. As with just about every area in health, orthomolecular medicine starts with a kernel of truth -- that nutritional deficiencies contribute to illness -- and covers it with layers and layers of very expensive smoke-and-mirrors, not to mention reams of rationalization.

 

I am truly glad whatever treatment you've found is helping you. I cannot in all truthfulness recommend orthomolecular medicine.

 

PS I am also glad you found a psychiatrist you like. I can't find anything on his site about tapering or withdrawal. What is his position on that?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I don't know exactly how the "mauve factor" was discovered or the testing protocols developed. I know Dr. Walsh did a lot of "just looking" as a chemist...I his first job with a national lab, they were just randomly looking for substances that were increased or decreased in violent offenders. Nor do I know what the communication was in setting up the testing that others did who could not replicate it. But if the other labs looked at slides in normal lighting, they would have found what they found...nothing. I know it can be a problem with some other "off the beaten path" tests, for example Sarah Myhill does RNA analysis for CHF and other labs have not been able to get the same results. As a child I suddenly developed bruising on many of my pressure points but had a nl CBC...the doctor said the test for rheumatic fever was extremely vulnerable to error and just decided it should have been positive when it was negative. Technology can only do so much.

 

These are only my ideas, not anything scientific...but when you have metal accumulation, the symptoms are going to vary tremendously according to where the metals deposit. If your overall methylation cycle is not working perfectly, you will have some variability in symptoms depending on what enzymes aren't working correctly. And there are other genes that also affect the outcome, including genes that are just active in fetal development. And epigenetics. Dr. Walsh is undermethylated himself, but has never had mental health issues. If you read Dr. Hofer's book on niacin (and everyone in his camp says he was wrong about schizophrenia as a blanket condition), you see someone straining hard to find answers for people who are suffering, frustrated with the system, but not perfect. The stuff Amy Yasko writes is beyond my comprehension, but it makes you appreciate the fact that we just have tiny glimpses into an incredibly complex system. So if you have a real problem that is not just "temporary" stress or sadness, you have to decide what to do. I do think Walsh's research will be completely outdated in the future, but it is more accessible, implementable, and affordable (relatively) than anything else I found. But I am sure I would think differently if it hadn't helped. On a webinar, someone asked Dr. Mensah what to do as their protocol hadn't worked. His answer was to move on into genetic testing, never stop fighting.

 

They think the reason bipolar diagnoses in the young are increasing so exponentially is that poor diet and other environmental forces are creating oxidative stress, which will eventually create pyrrole disorder in anyone, once the nl. metabolic process is overwhelmed.

 

I don't see any need for you to "recommend" any specific treatment...nothing is going to be the solution for everyone. I do appreciate all the things people write about different ideas.

 

I don't know what my pdoc's opinion is on protracted withdrawal. He says people vary greatly in how difficult "coming off" is for them. He spoke of patients counting Effexor beads, like it was an extreme but valid example, whereas it's an everyday thing here. But we didn't talk about CT, etc. I doubt if he has much experience in CT as he has not always practiced this way and he only does this kind of medicine once a week. The rest of the week he works in community child/adolescent psych in another state. I would guess he is working off his school loans in an underserved area. Trying not to ask too many questions off topic as this usually leads me to losing confidence in nutritionists, therapists, and doctors as they start to tell me their stories. We are all broken!

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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Bipolar disorder is "increasing" because it's being drastically overdiagnosed.

 

Yes, there are rationales for everything. As I said before, I'm heterozygous MTHFR, this is supposed to be very bad, I looked into it and found you can spend thousands of dollars for testing, get reams of data, and still not get anywhere in knowing how to treat it -- if it is indeed a disease state -- which is dubious, given the frequency with which it occurs in a general population (40%).

 

Every individual genetic makeup is going to depart somewhere from an idealized average. The differences are not necessarily indicative of anything but variability. Many genetic variations carry advantages and disadvantages to health.

 

I won't even go into the thing about metals, etc., the reason evolution gave us kidneys and livers.

 

We're all going to die of something, not even life-hackers can avoid that.

 

The way I explain alternative medicine is that people are trying very, very hard to find answers beyond conventional medicine. Some of them reach too far for answers. This is motivated by wanting to help, but when it comes down to treatment by trial-and-error, we're still in superstition territory.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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  • 3 weeks later...

Zepplin, I wanted to comment and query about your post in another thread about the Walsh protocol. I couldn't agree more about your comments about gut healing and lifestyle. My diagnoses were mild copper overload and pyrrole disorder and I think they were very possibly caused by gut and nutrition issues. And my issues were greatly complicated by taking a NRI and all that happened after that. I have been listening to Dr. Perlmutter's book Grain Brain where he details many ways lifestyle things and nutrition affect genetic expression. But the supplements got me well enough that I could start working on those things.

 

So do you still get your blood tested? Are you still on your original "prescription" or did they lower it over time? Do you buy their supplements or put them together yourself? I will be having my six-month review (late due to scheduling issues) with them soon.

 

Walsh's book Nutrient Power is old enough now that you can get it from the library, although it might have to be inter-library loan.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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  • 5 months later...

Some might find this dialogue about Dr. Walsh's protocol interesting. I am about to do a total upgrade on my personal protocol. But I have made so much progress in the past year. And tapering is still so hard, but I do bounce back after each cut. This is very uncharted territory...everyone who is interested needs to research and sort out the risk/benefit ratio themselves. I was happy to learn today that my own pdoc is now certified in this and that several practitioners have been added to Dr. Walsh's resource list. The doctor who wrote the article below said it supposedly takes about four years for a doctor to become completely proficient In this treatment.

 

http://www.judytsafrirmd.com/nutrient-power-the-walsh-research-institute/

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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  • Moderator Emeritus

hey Meime,

 

I have been attending a Walsh trained Dr in australia since November last year and am taking supplements. I have also noticed HUGE differences in the way i feel - my sleep in particular is sound and deep.  

 

I recommenced tapering in March after having been on the supplements for 5 months or so - i have not noticed any differences yet -  the real test will be when i get to much lower doses in about 6 months time.  My doctor said to taper off over 8 weeks and i said that wasn't going to happen, so i guess he isn't familiar with the 10% taper rule - i am not prepared to risk going off faster and getting withdrawal symptoms, someone else can do that experiment!

Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)
Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months later
Back on effexor for another 9 months.
Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.
Back on effexor - this time for 3 years
Reduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.
Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorter
Jan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,
1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years....

4th  March 2015 - 67.5mg;   31st March - 60mg;  24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg;  9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg;  1st Dec - 25.8mg;  28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg

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