Dr. William Walsh, Mensah Medical, and Walsh Institute (succeeds Pheiffer Institute)

[Meimeiquest]

They sell a tiny dose, 4.9mg.

[toomanymeds]

Does it help with withdrawal?

[Meimeiquest]

I have no idea...I'm still on a much higher dose of lithium. I haven't found the supplements to help my withdrawal (I haven't been through CT since 2006). They are the garden variety withdrawal symptoms. Mensah believes if symptoms last more than a few months past stopping a drug, something beyond withdrawal is going on (don't shoot me...their words not mine).

[Petunia]

Does it help with withdrawal?

 

I tried Lithium Orotate for withdrawal, but found it wasn't helpful. I can't remember how long I tried it for, probably not long. When it comes to finding supplements to reduce withdrawal symptoms, its really a matter of trial and error. Some things work for some and not for others.

[JanCarol]

IF you do decide to try lithium orotate, please consider starting at 1 mg, or 1.25 (breaking a 5 mg capsule into 4 doses).

 

IF you go over 10 mg, you need to monitor for kidney and liver damage. 

 

The orotate is MORE EFFICIENT than prescription - so this also means that it can go toxic at lower doses.  Nancy Mullen recommends 70 mg per day maintenance dose - but I think that is too high, and could be dangerous to kidney and liver, especially if you are on ANY other drugs.

[toomanymeds]

Meimeiquest,

I was disgnosed with Pyyrole and undermetyhlation and copper was a little high. Did you ever use the compounding supplements through Dr Mensah? Is it less expensive to purchase on your own? How are you feeling now?

[Meimeiquest]

Meimeiquest,

I was disgnosed with Pyyrole and undermetyhlation and copper was a little high. Did you ever use the compounding supplements through Dr Mensah? Is it less expensive to purchase on your own? How are you feeling now?

Well, at least you didn't go for nothing!

 

I did compounded supplements for awhile, until my other practitioner wanted me off B12 for awhile. It is a lot of work on your own, but K do it, partly because I can get the carnitor/carnitine paid as a prescription, and I can spread the cost out. To get the best price on their supplements, you have to buy 90 days at a time. Cost depends on your "recipe." Mine was about $175/month, expensive to me. I talked with them about doing my own when I was there and they strongly advised getting it compounded to start out.

 

How I am doing is complicated. I found out I have giardia and some other gut issues, and need to work on that. Probably have mercury overload, from liver not working optimally and the gut issues. The glutathione (they sell it as Enhancer) seems to be working as I feel much better when not taking it. Sadly, metals are pretty miserable as they leave. I still feel the same about them , everything they have done has worked, but they don't adequately assess the gut.

 

What was your opinion?

[rapunzel2]

you say you probably have mercury overload, Meimei, how do they address that? are you doing any kind of chelation?

[Meimeiquest]

The Enhancer (mostly glutathione) is for advanced detoxing. Not chelating for several reasons. It has gotten quite complicated...but I am still working and parenting, so it's okay. Really, I kind of can't believe I've made it as far as I have.

[Meimeiquest]

The Enhancer (mostly glutathione) is for advanced detoxing. Not chelating for several reasons. It has gotten quite complicated...but I am still working and parenting, so it's okay. Really, I kind of can't believe I've made it as far as I have.

They just placed an article on their FB page about this issue.

[Meimeiquest]

And this. Note that there is a transcript underneath the video to save on listening time. http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/01/13/mercury-detoxification-protocol.aspx

[rapunzel2]

 

The Enhancer (mostly glutathione) is for advanced detoxing. Not chelating for several reasons. It has gotten quite complicated...but I am still working and parenting, so it's okay. Really, I kind of can't believe I've made it as far as I have.

They just placed an article on their FB page about this issue.

 

checked this out, wow, very interesting! for me it's interesting that under 5% of depression is because of metal toxicity. 

[Meimeiquest]

 

 

The Enhancer (mostly glutathione) is for advanced detoxing. Not chelating for several reasons. It has gotten quite complicated...but I am still working and parenting, so it's okay. Really, I kind of can't believe I've made it as far as I have.

 

They just placed an article on their FB page about this issue.

checked this out, wow, very interesting! for me it's interesting that under 5% of depression is because of metal toxicity.

It is not the primary cause. I don't think it is for me, either. I think declining gut and liver function from other issues has eventually resulted in my not being able to adequately process the low level daily exposure from my amalgam fillings. My big problems that stop when I stop the glutathione are irritability and a bit of anxiety that I don't really feel but I think feeds the irritability. I only have depression now when I make drops in my lithium dose. Note they talked about the year to get things under control with copper...it was because after a year my zinc levels were lower than when I started that they put me on glutathione.

[JanCarol]

My head is spinning from this discussion!  It's such a clear reminder of just how complicated these systems are, and why it's important to get help when you start fiddling around with this stuff!

 

Glad you are managing, MeiMei, and I do think that Mensah helped you get this far - though you may still need further assistance than they can provide.

[Meimeiquest]

So today is a red letter day for me. Next month I will have been tapering for four years, and today for the first time I stayed home because I just felt too stressed to go. I have lots of doctors who know a lot, but not one who really is an expert in all the pieces. We need to start moving money to other places. I am really thinking of ditching my great pdoc and the gut-expert chiro and just going to our new PCP who is a functional medicine guy, but not a real expert in any of my problems (although he probably thinks he is) but who amazingly provides supplements at wholesale prices. I still think Mensah is great because they work from a mental health paradigm...they have the guts to go where many others would fear and they are extremely calm about it. I got some adrenal and parasite protocols from an scd (specific carbohydrate diet) website...they have a lot of gut expertise. Referencing quicksilverscoenfitic.com on mercury. I learned a ton from the chiro and pdoc while I was there. Now this is bizarre, but I am thinking of consulting with thelithiumdoctor.com (or something like that) on converting from lithium carbonate to lithium orotate so I am not dependent on a prescriber to get the stuff. Researching nancymullanmd.com on repair of cell membranes (mercury wreaks havoc there). Because I want my oldest daughter to go to college and my youngest to continue violin lessons more than I want to pay these experts.

[powerback]

 

for anyone that is truly fed up and totally disillusioned with the big pharma representatives .IE doctors and most physiatrists.powerback

  

[DogLover]

 

Most of us on SA are hungry and desperate for relief. We spend countless hours searching for a glimmer of hope, for some knowledge, a therapy, a magic potion. In this pursuit I came across Dr. William Walsh.

For those that don't know, he claims to have amassed the world largest database of those with behavioral and mood disorders. His database contains a wide collection of lab tests which includes nutrients, toxins, metabolites and much more from blood, urine and hair samples.

His database was searched for common factors to gain insight into different disorders. He claims to have found striking similarities among patients with schizophrenia, ocd, adhd, depression, anxiety, autism and more.

Each mental problem has its own fingerprint of commonalty including my personal favorite, anxiety and depression. Those suffering from depression shared the following:

• • Undermethylation (38% of patients test for...)

  • Folate Deficiency (20%)

  • Copper Overload (17%)

  • Pyrrole Disorder (15%)

  • Toxics (5%)

 

Most of the bio-types above share quite similar symptoms making self-diagnosis nearly impossible. For example, most cause sleep disruptions. To date there is no questionnaire that can effectively help a patient zero in on any single cause. Diagnosis can only be done through lab test. Luckily, these labs can be ordered by the patient though the internet and they come with a doctor consultation after the tests have been complete:

 

For $448.00 you get an at home urine test, and blood test carried out at a local lab. The lab test took me less than twenty minutes from parking my car to leaving! (LabCorp)
 

I ordered the test.

I've already received the results from my urine test and it turns out I'm borderline high in pyrroles, which is a waste product that some have difficulty discarding. High levels are associated with anxiety and depression.

The good news is that treatment is done through a supplement regimen.

After researching supplements and taking everything on the planet I've come to a better understanding. Countless books, forums and videos profess to take X,Y and Z. “You need it to feel great!” So, like me, many order boxes of pills and start gobbling them down with poor results.

The problem with supplements is that everyone has a different nutrient profile, so what is good for one person my be toxic for the next. So, the answer is to get tested to see in what you are high and low . Then tailor supplements for your situation. Lab work.
 

My current plan is to halt tapering at my current dose of 12 pellets of EffexorXR per day until my consultation. I'm somewhat excited, which brings it's own relief, and will update SA as I know more.
 

God bless to you all.

Links:

Dr. William Walsh and the five bio-types of depression:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyoPtGtQvHI

 

The actual lab test I ordered:

https://www.dhalab.com/shop/metabolic-panel-advanced-brain-chemistry-consultation/

[ChessieCat]

Before you go spending any more money I suggest you check out this topic and especially Altostrata's comments.  Alto is this site's founder.

 

mensah-medical-and-walsh-institute-succeeds-pheiffer-institute

 

On 5/19/2014 at 11:46 AM, Altostrata said:

Note: This is in response to a member posting: "What Your Doctor Might Not Know About Depression:"

 

This is utter baloney. There are no neurotransmitter imbalances of any type in "depressed" people, and this guy can't test for that, either.
 
He conflates nutrient deficiencies with neurotransmitter imbalances. There are nutrient deficiencies that can be tested. Whether or not they are connected with what is known as "depression" has not been demonstrated by anyone.

 

 

[DogLover]

ChessieCat,

Thank you for the reply.

I read through the comments and it seems like a bit of a mixed bag. I searched for days looking for any negative info about Walsh and didn't find much of anything.  I don't know how I missed the info in your link.

The money is spent, so I shall proceed. We shall see. I will definitely keep the board updated.

 

[ChessieCat]

3 hours ago, DogLover said:

Most of us on SA are hungry and desperate for relief. We spend countless hours searching for a glimmer of hope, for some knowledge, a therapy, a magic potion.

 

I think this comment of yours says it all.  Whilst there are people who are desperate for whatever reason, there will always be someone, somewhere who will find a way to make money out of them.

[Altostrata]

@DogLover here is our discussion about Dr. William Walsh and his protocols.

 

21 hours ago, DogLover said:

For those that don't know, he claims to have amassed the world largest database of those with behavioral and mood disorders. His database contains a wide collection of lab tests which includes nutrients, toxins, metabolites and much more from blood, urine and hair samples.

 

If this database exists, there's a methodological flaw underlying it: How were "behavioral and mood disorders" defined? This is a very great weakness in almost all such research.

 

We all have ups and downs. Some of us suffer in distressing circumstances, such as bad families, bad marriages, bad jobs, poverty, illness. If these circumstances change, our emotional climate changes, too. However, largely because of intense pharmaceutical marketing for the last couple of decades, "behavioral and mood disorders" can be diagnosed in a ham sandwich. If pharma had its way, every human on Earth would be diagnosed with "behavioral and mood disorders."

 

So exactly what is in Dr. Walsh's database? I'm sure nobody knows. Given how vague "behavioral and mood disorders" is, it could be a cross-section of a general population. There could be subgroups within this population with various common vitamin or mineral deficiencies, which can be related to real medical conditions such as hypothyroidism, B vitamin deficiences, vitamin D deficiencies, low magnesium, hypokalemia, etc. In short, if you have even a subclinical deficiency in an important vitamin or mineral, it could make you feel poorly and even cause "depression" or other mood disorders.

 

Since it appears (as far as I know) that Walsh protocols involve trial and error with various supplements, seems to me that if you tried long enough, you might find one that made you feel better in some way. Or maybe not, because that's the nature of trial and error. If you want to pay them for this, feel free to do it.

 

As ever, there is no such thing as a "neurotransmitter imbalance," period.  It doesn't exist and cannot be corrected with supplements, etc. If any protocol claims to "balance neurotransmitters," right off, you know you're dealing with some hucksterism.

 

On top of that, treatment of "behavioral and mood disorders" is not relevant to relief of withdrawal symptoms. Withdrawal is not a behavioral or mood disorder, it's an iatrogenic condition. It's caused by your body's lack of adaptation to a changed drug level. The nervous system is often destabilized. While symptoms might appear to be "behavioral and mood disorders," they are not and they cannot be treated as such.

 

As far as I know, Walsh protocols in no way address withdrawal symptoms. I do not recommend them for that purpose.

 

By the way, if you're not eating a lot of fresh green leafy vegetables, you should be. They contain lots of crucial vitamins and minerals and fiber for good gut health. Supplements are poor substitutes for fresh food.

[DogLover]

After reading ChesseCat's post, I went to bed last night sick to my stomach wondering if I'm destined to be miserable. End of story.

I did a fair amount of searching for anecdotal evidence today and found very little. Pro or Con. I find that curious and not a good sign. If he has helped thousands, I would think some of them would shout his praises from the rooftops. I'm guessing the most would take the treatment, think they are getting better for a while then kinda forget about it.

Opinions of the board about Dr William Walsh aside, I will report my experiences to benefit others. Please understand I am not trying to sing his praises in any way. In full disclosure I am not under Walsh's care but another doctor.

 

I got my lab results in today and according to the metrics of the Walsh this is what they said:

Hystomines: high

Zinc: low

Copper: high

Kryptopyrrole: high

 

From what I've read they are going to tell me to take: zinc, vitamin c & e, SAMe, calcium, magnesium and primrose oil. (I'm a bit leery about the SAMe and will do some research.)  While taking these supplements I am maintaining my current dose of Effexor at  bbs (7.2mg?).  I skipped my March taper, because I needed a break.

I have one question of ChesseCat / Altostarta: Do you think that he entire dopamine/serotonin/epinephrine/noraepinephrine model is flawed? Is serotonin linked to depression? etc? I would enjoy your thoughts.
 

 

[Altostrata]

15 minutes ago, DogLover said:

Do you think that he entire dopamine/serotonin/epinephrine/noraepinephrine model is flawed? Is serotonin linked to depression? etc?

 

Yes, it's flawed. There is no link to depression or any other mood disorder.

[ChessieCat]

2 hours ago, DogLover said:

Do you think that he entire dopamine/serotonin/epinephrine/noraepinephrine model is flawed? Is serotonin linked to depression?

 

See:  again-chemical-imbalance-is-a-myth-stop-the-lies-please

 

2 hours ago, DogLover said:

 

From what I've read they are going to tell me to take: zinc, vitamin c & e, SAMe, calcium, magnesium and primrose oil. (I'm a bit leery about the SAMe and will do some research.) 

 

Yes, please do your research.  There are many existing topics on SA.  I like to use google and add survivingantidepressants.org to my search term.

 

Also, SA suggests only making one change at a time and not taking a complex because if you feel worse you won't know what caused it.  We also suggest trying a small amount of something new to test to see how you react to it.  It would also be a good idea to keep daily notes on paper.  Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

[Tamtam1]

I have had a positive experience with the Walsh protocol. My husbands doctor (who recently retired) studied the Walsh protocol and I went to see him when I was 3 years out of stopping Prozac and suffering withdrawal and my OCD was out of control. I had tried reinstating the first couple of months off of Prozac and it went real bad real quick so I developed a very healthy fear of antidepressants even though Prozac stopped 95% of my OCD.

 

So looking for a more holistic type approach, which my husbands doctor always looked into natural medicine before prescribing regular meds, He did a bunch of blood work and he found my cooper was really high and very low zinc. He did give me a list of supplements to take, I was very Leary because I couldn’t tolerate even magnesium, so I decided to just start with just the zinc.

 

I couldn’t tolerate the 50mg he wanted but 25mg did the trick in about 10 days my OCD was down about 75% I couldn’t believe it and I know it’s not a fluke because a couple of times I have run out of zinc and not taken for a week or so and I am back to obsessing and compulsions.

 

we have a pool and last summer in the beginning of the season I swam for about 5 days and suddenly my OCD was back and strong (I had not had an episode like that in about 9months so I couldn’t figure what had happened) I was so wrapped up in compulsions that I didn’t swim for a week and finally It calmed down (I was still taking my zinc so I knew that want a factor) so the following week I was back to swimming everyday and after about a week I was hit with another strong OCD episode that lasted about a week.

 

So I finally told my husband and I told him I thought something was wrong with the pool (never had a problem swimming before this) and he told me he switched to a new pool chemical and we went to look at the active ingredients and guess what the #1 ingredient was, yep it was Copper. We had to put chemicals in our pool to get the cooper out and switch back to our old chemicals that didn’t have copper. after that I swam with no problems and my ocd was back under control My body/nervous system can’t handle excessive copper. 

 

I never did start taking the other supplements because zinc helped me so much and still

does to this day and it’s been almost 2 years of taking it. 

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Low zinc is fairly common. It's a mineral essential to good nervous system and body functioning. Good to hear that you found the right supplement without too much experimentation.

[DogLover]

Tamtam1,

 

Thank you for your story. I also tested high in copper. 

I remember when I drank I always had a sense of impending doom, like any minute something horrible was going to happen. After a week or so into sobriety that completely went away. I still have anxiety, but that dimension when away. If I had the same results with copper I would be happy.

[DogLover]

So, I wanted to update everyone about the Walsh Method. I had my consult and here's my list of supplements: P5P, B6, Vitamin C, Zinc Picolinate, Mo-Zyne, L-Methionine, SAMe, Cal/Mag, Evening Primrose.
 

On my introductions page, you'll find that I'm not doing too well. The past few days my anxiety levels have been pretty high. I'm in no shape to start a protocol at this time, so sadly I'll have to wait. I did buy all the supps though.

[ChessieCat]

SA suggests trying new things 1 at a time and only trying a small amount to see how they affect you.  Keep Notes on Paper

 

It's also a good idea to research everything before taking them.

 

It is best to take calcium and magnesium at separate times:

 

On 4/23/2017 at 3:56 PM, Altostrata said:

taking calcium at the same time as magnesium will cancel out magnesium's relaxing effect, as they compete for the calcium channel. (Unless you have a specific serious medical condition requiring calcium supplementation, you don't need to take calcium.)

 

sam-e-s-adenosyl-l-methionine

 

From Post #1 of this topic: 

 

Quote

Admin note While available as a dietary supplement, SAM-e is a powerful neuroactive amino acid. We have had several members who had withdrawal difficulties going off SAM-e after regular use, and other adverse effects.

 

vitamin-b6

 

hypersensitive-to-b-vitamin-or-b-vitamin-complex

[ChessieCat]

55 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Here are the ones our members have reported are stimulating (may cause anxiety): P5P, B6, L-Methionine, SAMe

 

Have no idea what Mo-Zyne is.

 

[DogLover]

Mo-Zyne is Molybdenum, number 42 on the periodic table. Not sure what it does. I have notes, but not with me. 

 

[ChessieCat]

My personal opinion (ie not as a moderator) is that it seems like they throw a heap of supplements at you and hope that something "sticks" (ie works).

 

But if you started taking all of the supplements at one time and you did start to feel better there may be only one thing which you are taking that is helping but you won't know which one it is, which means you are taking lots of things that aren't helping.  And if you are purchasing the supplements from the clinic, then of course it is just more money for them.

[Meimeiquest]

Hi Dog Lover, You probably were assigned a nurse from Mensah for your questions and problems?  The supplements aren’t for withdrawal, for better or worse, they’re for what Mensah would call biochemical abnormalities.  It’s now almost 5 years since I consulted them, and I have to say that they have helped me more than any other one single thing, although there was a whole lot more “wrong” with me.  I got pretty crazy 3 years in when some of the other issues resolved and the Vitamin B6 and P5P became much too much....these are really medication levels of supplements, and I have decreased and eliminated different supplements over time but I get into trouble whenever I drop certain things. I still check my zinc, copper and histamine levels.  I hope they either help you or you have clarity that they’re not right for you.

[Meimeiquest]

Moly B is for the copper overload

[DogLover]

Meimeiquest,

That's great news! Hearing the fact that they indeed helped someone. (At least someone that wasn't listed on their website by the name of Bob R. from Anytown, USA)! Right now I'm having boatloads of problems with my taper. I stopped at 7 mg in Feb and I feel like I am spiraling out of control. So, It will be a time before I can give Mensah advice a whirl. At the moment keep getting scared.

 

Thank you for letting me know. That gives me hope for the future.

[Mary66]

On 2/20/2013 at 1:24 PM, Meimeiquest said:

Starting 2/15, I am taking 100 mg SR (whole pill) in the morning, and 75 mg SR (cut pill) in the early afternoon. The first cut was from 300 mg XL to 200 mg SR once a day, started that 1/18, did recover completely between. First WD symptoms this round were yesterday 2/19. I was dizzy and "waterlogged brain" 2 hrs. before 12 pm dose today, and now at almost 1:30 p.m. it's starting to come back. Thanks, Meimeiquest

Wondering your thoughts on the Walsh protocol…..saw a functional doc this winter as my WD from Paxil has me in terrible shape. I’ve always been a mainstream medical person …all the supplements would be taking over 10 pills/day! Gi mapping, high copper, undermethylated, pyrroles and all kinds of stuff….I’m so skeptical and my nervous system is already on hyper alert 😫