SouthernFreeze: 10 years and finally clean

[SouthernFreeze]

Hi .... i am on my second week totally clean from 5 years on Effexor xr and 5 years of other anti depressants.

 

I am now on 5htp, B vitamins and Magnesium supplements now but this doesn't worry me at all. I also have herbal tea's regularly like oatstraw and chamomile to calm my nerves a bit. 

 

I have been an alcoholic and had to come clean three years ago, and have also quit smoking and nothing has compared to this. In my signature you will see how i finally came off the Effexor and have to say this cut down the strongest withdrawal symptoms and now any of those severe withdrawals have gone. Saying this though i still don't feel right and i'm not sure whats real and whats not with my emotions. 

 

I must admit after reading on here how people are still suffering withdrawals after years of stopping is kind of disheartening, i feel like i have been through the worst of it and would only get better. The thought of it haunting me for years makes me wonder if it's worth it.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Altostrata
changed name at request of member

[bubble]

Hello SF and welcome to SA,

 

thank you for putting your drug history in the signature. 

 

Yes, you are right a lot of people are still suffering withdrawals after years of stopping medication. That's one of  the main reason this forum is here.

 

But it doesn't have to be a disheartening thought. Withdrawal happens and is prolonged when we come off the medication too fast. After I read what you wrote in your signature: coming off of 37.5 mg in 2 weeks this unfortunately sounds more like a cold-turkey than tapering. There are many reasons why we advise 10 % taper on your current dose and holding the dose for 30 days to allow our brains to adjust to the change. You can learn about these from the links I will copy for you.

 

A very important piece of information would be the one about when you took the last dose of Effexor. (Your brain might still not have fully registered what has happened and it's very likely that it will dislike it intensely).

 

Many people have found 5htp very problematic and ended having to taper it just like an AD.

 

I most warmly recommend that you read the information on these links. We will do our best to answer any of your questions. It might take some time for you to absorb all the information. But it will help you to understand why we will advise you to reinstate a certain dose of Effexor. Our experience tells us that the worst of withdrawal happens weeks and even months after the drug is phsysically out of the system. Most of us here thought thought that we would be an exception (in my case I fell apart 45 days after I "tapered" my medication,stopping what seemed "only" 2.5 mg).

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/603-what-is-antidepressant-withdrawal-syndrome/

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3079-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-stop-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

Here is what we advise as a safe way of coming off of Effexor. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/272-tips-for-tapering-off-effexor-and-effexor-xr-venlafaxine/

 

Once again, welcome. you will find a lot of friendly support here and I'm glad you found us especially so early in the journey.

 

best,

 

bubble

[SouthernFreeze]

i haven't read all your links yet but i thought i would let you know that i went from 150 for two months to 75 for two months to 35.7 for two months and then done the two week thing if that makes any difference.

 

edit: ah, i see now lower doses are more vital. I wonder if i should go back on to 3 mg for a month or two then two, then one

 

also wouldn't 5htp be a good bridge ?

[mammaP]

Hi SF, I have been on effexor for 12 years and tapering from 37.5 for over  2 years! 

I count beads too and stopped at 5 beads after tapering for a year. I was fine the first

few weeks then started to suffer from withdrawal symptoms that were excruciating. 

I am concerned that you have gone far, far too fast and agree that reinstating would be

worth considering.  It is only 2 weeks and you only did a 2 week taper so personally I 

would go back to the 37.5  and start a slow taper of no more than 10%of the  current dose.

 

Effexor/venlafaxine is a particularly nasty drug to get off and needs to be tapered very carefully. 

 

If I had to start tapering this drug again, I would go at 5% reductions and do a micro taper, but

that is just me and based on my experience.

[bubble]

yes, as you noted yourself, it's the lower doses that are particularly tricky (and there is very well documented research explaining why it is that).

 

But you have a lot of reading to catch up with so I won't bother you with that article if you are prepared to take my word for it for the time being

 

I'm glad you are considering reinstating. We all want to come off these meds so badly. But if we rush it we only prolong it plus end up suffering horribly.

 

5htp wasn't found to be helpful (there is also a link for later reading http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/656-5-htp-5-hydroxytryptophan-and-tryptophan/?hl=5htp

 

the gist is this: 

 

cymbaltaD -- It's not a good idea to take 5-HTP with a serotonergic drug as it could cause excessive elevation of serotonin. So cross-tapering with 5-HTP would be risky. There are no reports that I know of about this succeeding. If you mean can you treat withdrawal symptoms with 5-HTP, I guess you could say we are still gathering info on that. Occasionally people say it helps, others say it hurts.

 

 

Its effect is unpredictable. Try it at your own risk, and only a very small amount in case you get a bad reaction.

 

 

After all I've been through, if  I were you (or me) again, I'd reinstate. How much is the main question. But it largely depends on when you stopped taking it (I suppose it wasn't too long ago because withdrawal is only lurking so there is still time for the reinstatement to work.) But the sooner we reinstate the better.

 

I'd ask Alto about the dose, she's our main expert...

 

Also were you taking (do you stull have) tablets or capsules with beads inside? Maybe it woudl be best to read tips on how to taper Effexor first  http://survivinganti...xr-venlafaxine/ (to get the proper dose people eaither use liquid or count beads - I found this very strange when I first came here but it is because pharma doesn't recognise withdrawal so tehy don't provide forms for tapering. (If they did, much fewer people woudl be taking their pproducts  so from their perspective it definitely doesn't make sense)

[SouthernFreeze]

Damn, feels like i'v been shot down and i should change my topic title  

 

Anyway yes i still have capsules with beads in them, and counting them down is how i done my last two weeks.

 

As with the 5htp i have mostly heard good things and it does help out a bit, if anything it just makes you drowsy. To be honest after having bouts with drugs like crystal meth and ecstasy while on 150mg of effexor it doesn't overly concern me as to doing too much damage, especially while i'm not even taking any prescription drugs at the moment.

[bubble]

I understand about the title sorry, but from everything I've seen from my own example and reading many stories here over 7 months (MammaP a lot more), I just don't see how your case can be different ;(

 

What is different with you is that you came here a lot earlier than most people (as I think I mentioned I was waiting for 45 days. After that it took me 4 months to stop being a zombie...)

[Rhiannon]

This explains why it's important to come off the last bit of a taper much more slowly than the first part:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6036-why-taper-paper-demonstrates-importance-of-gradual-change-in-plasma-concentration/

 

Take a look at the charts in that paper. That's why we say to reduce by 10% or less of your current dose, not of your original dose. It's a curve, not a line, if that makes sense to you (if you understand algebraic functions, it's exponential, not linear).

 

So, yes, you've done great coming off the 150 mg, but yes, you have taken it too fast, especially the last part.

 

Unfortunately it is common for people to get through the early withdrawal symptoms and feel good and think they're done, then to get hit hard a few weeks or months out with the delayed symptoms, which can be very rough. If you can reinstate now and then taper slowly, this period will go more smoothly for you. 

 

I know it's discouraging, but on a low dose the drug will not cause as much bad effect for you, and believe me, it is very worthwhile to make that last part of the taper as slow as your brain needs it to be.

 

Oh, and just FYI, there is no comparison between coming off street type drugs or alcohol and coming off psych drugs. Not even prescription opiates can compare. They are powerful substances, but not nearly as precise and potent in their action as these psychiatric drugs. I have never been alcoholic but I have withdrawn from prescription opiates and although it was no walk in the park it was a total picnic compared to coming off psych drugs.

[SouthernFreeze]

Ok, the question is, how much do start on again? And how long for should i taper for this time

[Altostrata]

Welcome, SF.

 

5mg Effexor might do it, allowing for the possibility your nervous system has adjusted somewhat to the absence of the drug. If that is enough, it will be less to taper. Then, stabilize for a month and taper more gradually.

 

Since 5mg is so few beads, when you begin your taper, you may wish to use a liquid made of regular Effexor instead, so you can taper by amounts smaller than one bead.

[SouthernFreeze]

Welcome, SF.

 

5mg Effexor might do it, allowing for the possibility your nervous system has adjusted somewhat to the absence of the drug. If that is enough, it will be less to taper. Then, stabilize for a month and taper more gradually.

 

Since 5mg is so few beads, when you begin your taper, you may wish to use a liquid made of regular Effexor instead, so you can taper by amounts smaller than one bead.

 

thank you, not sure if i have been saved or scare mongered

 

reading this forum i'm confident it's the first one 

[SouthernFreeze]

i'm soo frickin stupid and angry at myself, i accidentally took 10 mg today   

 

Do you think i will be ok to take 5 for the next month after todays stuff up ? I have made a months worth of 5 already and if i taper from 10mg it's like an extra 5 months added to the plan.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Your system might react to the bump of 10 but might not.

 

Did you make up a liquid for the 5 mg doses? If you did, the solution usually isn't stable for more than 3 days. Your body will register it as an incomplete dose and you won't be able to stabilize that way. Could definitely cause problems.

[SouthernFreeze]

Your system might react to the bump of 10 but might not.

 

Did you make up a liquid for the 5 mg doses? If you did, the solution usually isn't stable for more than 3 days. Your body will register it as an incomplete dose and you won't be able to stabilize that way. Could definitely cause problems.

no i just took out beads and weighed them

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Good then. You just might be able to keep on going and your body might not register the bump. Just remember to take the correct amount at the same time every day. That part is really important. Give your system a routine to lean on so it can stabilize. It will take awhile so don't lose heart or get impatient.

[bubble]

i'm soo frickin stupid and angry at myself, i accidentally took 10 mg today   

 

Do you think i will be ok to take 5 for the next month after todays stuff up ? I have made a months worth of 5 already and if i taper from 10mg it's like an extra 5 months added to the plan.

 

don't beat yourself about that. Things like that happen to all of us from time to time.

 

What I do then is that I just go on with the plan the next day or whenever the next dose is. So, I'd say, yes: take 5 starting with your next dose and hold it: every day the same amount at the same time. The symptoms will come and go in windows and waves pattern but you will keep the boat steady and on the course.

[SouthernFreeze]

 

i'm soo frickin stupid and angry at myself, i accidentally took 10 mg today   

 

Do you think i will be ok to take 5 for the next month after todays stuff up ? I have made a months worth of 5 already and if i taper from 10mg it's like an extra 5 months added to the plan.

 

don't beat yourself about that. Things like that happen to all of us from time to time.

 

What I do then is that I just go on with the plan the next day or whenever the next dose is. So, I'd say, yes: take 5 starting with your next dose and hold it: every day the same amount at the same time. The symptoms will come and go in windows and waves pattern but you will keep the boat steady and on the course.

 

thanks for the encouragement, also thanks everyone for all the insight. This forum is amazing congrats to the people who got it going.

[Rhiannon]

You're doing great, SF, and I'm optimistic about your future.

 

We all screw up our doses from time to time. It might make things a little bumpy, but you can ride it out. Just like everyone says, get back on track and stay there now, give your CNS some stability.

 

You're going to be fine. There will be better days and worse days, but you're going to come right through this.

[SouthernFreeze]

so now im back on five mg all my withdrawal symptoms are back...wtf, i thought i would be better, not worse

[bubble]

let's rewind the tape a bit....

 

I was reading through you posts, looking at you signature but couldn't find this information: it seems you reinstated 5 mg but you forgot to write WHEN.

 

in order to see whether reinstatement is working, you have to carefully monitor your symptoms and keep notes of them because we just forget how things are changing and after a while we can't tell. Knowing the pattern of your symptoms is very important for seeing how the drugs affect you and what to do about them.

 

So, how did you feel feel after the reinstatement? Did you feel any relief? That would be a sign that things are working. I'm saying relief, abating of symptoms and not that they would disappear. remember windows and waves pattern of recovery after our brains have been messed up with too speedy withdrawal? 

 

Putting dates into your signature would be very helpful, instead of saying that you tapered off 37.5 in 2 weeks: when was that? We recommend going down by 10 % every 30 days , so going down of 150 mg over 6 months is asking for trouble. So it might be that you are experiencing withdrawal already despite the reinstatement and might need to updose. But it's hard to tell since I can't see the pattern of your symptoms after reinstatement.

 

What are your symptoms now? 

 

hang in there!

[SouthernFreeze]

let's rewind the tape a bit....

 

I was reading through you posts, looking at you signature but couldn't find this information: it seems you reinstated 5 mg but you forgot to write WHEN.

 

in order to see whether reinstatement is working, you have to carefully monitor your symptoms and keep notes of them because we just forget how things are changing and after a while we can't tell. Knowing the pattern of your symptoms is very important for seeing how the drugs affect you and what to do about them.

 

So, how did you feel feel after the reinstatement? Did you feel any relief? That would be a sign that things are working. I'm saying relief, abating of symptoms and not that they would disappear. remember windows and waves pattern of recovery after our brains have been messed up with too speedy withdrawal?

 

Putting dates into your signature would be very helpful, instead of saying that you tapered off 37.5 in 2 weeks: when was that? We recommend going down by 10 % every 30 days , so going down of 150 mg over 6 months is asking for trouble. So it might be that you are experiencing withdrawal already despite the reinstatement and might need to updose. But it's hard to tell since I can't see the pattern of your symptoms after reinstatement.

 

What are your symptoms now?

 

hang in there!

[SouthernFreeze]

i was two weeks clean and wasn't feeling to bad, then went on to 5 mg three days ago.

the first day i felt better then i started to start crying and ****, today though i must admit i feel a little better.

also note that the first day i accidentally had ten mg

[Rhiannon]

It can take a while to stabilize. A small reinstatement won't take away withdrawal completely but it should help to cushion the fall. You can also try a slightly larger reinstatement if you want, since it's been so recently that you came off the drug completely.

 

Usually people in your position do well with a small reinstatement, a period of time to stabilize, and then a slow taper off.

 

If it were me I would avoid 5htp at this point, since it's hard to say what effect it's having and it could actually be stimulating or disruptive.

 

Mostly we find people in withdrawal are very sensitive to supplements and over time and much experimentation the consensus seems to be that the safest supplements are fish oil and magnesium. I personally take a few others, but nothing neuroactive.

[SouthernFreeze]

thanks, yeah i have stopped the 5htp now and think i will stay on this dose for at least a month.

 

i have magnesium b vitamins and eat fish every day (caught my self if possible)

[Altostrata]

Fresh fish is the best! Good eating to you.

[SouthernFreeze]

Ah after i have gone back on to the effexor i feel agitated, can't sleep very well and have bouts of aggression like i just cant let things go. I feel like i can't talk about it to anyone because no one understands, feel helpless and alone.

 

Someone please tell me this will go away as it stabilizes more, usually when i go back on it i just feel relieved.

 

I read the threads about stabilizing and reinstatement, but it kind of just confused me. I don't know if i should lower the dose, if it's not working because i have become accustom to nothing in my system, or it's just taking time to stabalize

[Petunia]

Is the aggression a completely new symptom?  Is this just a feeling, or something you might act on? When did this start?

 

In general, do you feel better or worse than before reinstatement?

[SouthernFreeze]

Is the aggression a completely new symptom?  Is this just a feeling, or something you might act on? When did this start?

 

In general, do you feel better or worse than before reinstatement?

 

 

 

the aggression is like a thing i kind of had, but have sort  of only recognized it more after reinstating. Its not massive aggression, just getting angry about something and holding on to it...like all night. It's definitely something i had but am just acting on more now i have reinstated.

I feel worse than before i reinstated. Before i reinstated i had an underlying feeling of anxiety but everything was more even. Now my feelings and actions are more erratic. The anxiety hits me more like stabs in the chest rather than something that's just sitting there in the background 

[Petunia]

Its possible that reinstating 5mg may not be enough and you are getting withdrawals from your 2 week taper from 35.7mg.  When you reinstated previously and felt relief, did you reinstate the whole amount?

[SouthernFreeze]

yes

[Rhiannon]

Cam, you're in that place where it's hard to say which is causing your problems, the drug itself or the withdrawal. Unfortunately, once destabilized by a CT or too-rapid taper (pretty much the same thing as far as our CNS is concerned), it's hard to predict how we will respond to taking more of the drug again.

 

Given your history I think what you're experiencing now is probably mostly due to withdrawal.

 

You have several options now: stay where you are, go up in dose, or go down in dose. If you choose to go up in dose a bit, I'd recommend making only a small increase, maybe another 5 mg, not more. Then keep a journal daily, noting how you're doing and ranking your symptoms on a scale of 1 to 5.

 

The problem with changing your dosage based on how you're feeling is that the bad waves are going to come and go whether or not you tweak your meds. People often get caught in the trap of going up and down on doses based on how they're feeling today, when how they're feeling today is really the result of something they did two weeks ago. And then going up and down on doses just destabilizes us further so then they continue to get worse.

 

So I don't think it's unreasonable to consider increasing your reinstatement slightly, but be aware that you should do it by small amounts and then hold for a while. And be aware that pretty much no matter what you do now, you're going to have withdrawal symptoms, and you're going to be reacting to the drug in ways you maybe didn't in the past. 

[Altostrata]

What is the daily pattern for your symptoms? Please keep notes on paper.

[SouthernFreeze]

i think i will stay on the dose i am on now, after all i wasn't feeling that bad when i was on nothing two weeks ago, so if i' feeling the withdrawals from then now, then i won't have really felt what this dose does till about another week.

 

I'm not very good at describing my symptoms and they are kind of all over the place. The main ones that stand out are the headaches in the morning, rushing panicy thoughts through out the day that makes me do stupid ****, like when i do physical things my mind is else where.

I also find it hard to get to sleep and then i wake in the night with panic attacks and consuming thoughts that keep you awake, same with early in the morning, like i said before, anxiety that feels like a stabbing in the chest when it hits. It feels very similar to a night sleep after drinking heavily and making an idiot of myself.

 

Evenings seem to be the best times and when i meditate, but it's hard to bring myself around meditate these days as good as i know it is for me

[Altostrata]

That's a fairly typical withdrawal syndrome pattern. Still, it would help if we had more exact times when these things occur.

[SouthernFreeze]

ok if anyone is confused i have changed my name to southernfreeze

 

@ Alto

 

I will try and wright down the exact times.

 

I might just want to add that i have been at home for the last couple of months with an injury. I have used this opportunity to come off the effexor but i am back at work tomorrow so my symptoms will probably all change for better or worse. 

[SouthernFreeze]

ok so just an update for myself or anyone who cares

 

I am starting to feel stabilized now after pretty much two weeks of the same dose. I have been able to meditate first thing in the morning for four days straight now which has been really good and helpful, hopefully i can keep it up. I have been sleeping much better which is a great relief.

I have noticed just in the last three days that i will fly off the handle at my wife with anything that has to do with stress but am happy as otherwise, problem is we are having some family issues which are very stressful at the moment, so it is difficult. Also, mainly from about twelve in the day onward, i have been started to feel a fair bit lethargic, like my usual interests don't really interest me anymore or i just can't be bothered with them.