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Dr. Yolande Lucire: Adverse Reactions to Psychiatric Drugs


Wolfhound

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I came across this. It is wonderful.

http://psychrights.org/articles/newdrugsnewproblems.htm

Put on trazadone for 8 weeks. Psychic akathisia started on 100 mg. Not a single doctor believed me telling me it is all anxiety in my head. Terrible suicidal urges. Got voluntary hospitalised. Acknoledged adverse reaction, put me off cold turkey. Instalated mirtazapine to block the reaction of trazadone. 5 weeks on mirtazapine.acathisia worsened, suicidal, homicidal urges. Nobody believed. Finally they stopped mirtazapine cold turkey. My heighest dose of trazadone was 200 mg, of mirtazapine 30 mg. Since the c/t, suicidal, acathisia continuing.

tried promethazine for sleep. Tried atarax. Currently taking klonopin for 10 days. Good for sleep, but my condition worsening. Unable to tell if it is klonopin or a bad wave.

In the former hospital i took twice gabapentin. It should be all my medication.

i was offered promethazin for sleep 25 mg and also small amount of quetiapine. Both are antipsychotics, even if ptomethszin very weak. Terribly afraid.

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I wanted more info on the genetic mutation theory that has been mentioned on here recently.

 

I phoned her office and was able to speak to her direct. She was so lovely - had a lot to say about the dangers of these drugs. Something she is obviously most passionate about.

 

I am going to take the gene test. She truly believes my adverse side effects I've experienced on the two andidepressants and antibiotics are down to my genes. I have watched a couple of her you-tube clips, very interesting. Homicidle thoughts and suicidle thoughts I both experienced when starting mirtazapine and on and off throughout treatment, Akathisia with both drugs. All of these side effects were reported on those who have this gene mutation.

We also spoke of how individuals are diagnosed with serious mental health problems after suffering adverse reactions to antidepresants - something she has seen too often.

 

She didn't seem to know much about withdrawel. She did say slow - but cutting down every two weeks(which we all know is way too fast). She is also aware that recovery can take a long time but will happen.

 

She knows Dr Healy and says the UK is a lot more knowledgable regarding these issues. Really?? There's nothing in Australia and she doesn't look like she gets any back up.

 

Overall - a very interesting conversation.

2008 - Doctors appointment with stress induced anxiety led to Citalopram prescription.

Severe adverse reaction

Mirtazapine prescribed - adverse reaction but told to stay on.

Poop out - December 2013

15mg

Currently on 13.5mg,

April 12mg

May 10th - 11mg

June 10th - 10mg

July 8th - 9mg

September - 0mg

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CEP - council for evidence based psychiatry.

 

This was a website advised by Yolande.

2008 - Doctors appointment with stress induced anxiety led to Citalopram prescription.

Severe adverse reaction

Mirtazapine prescribed - adverse reaction but told to stay on.

Poop out - December 2013

15mg

Currently on 13.5mg,

April 12mg

May 10th - 11mg

June 10th - 10mg

July 8th - 9mg

September - 0mg

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Hi Muddles,

that´s great! Tell me where are you going to take the test, is it a common test nowadays in the U.K:? I wanted to take it as well but it seems it´s a test that only two University institution can do here and I can´t afford it for the moment.

Yolanda Lucire is great. I exchanged a few emails with her in the midst of my Trazadone akathisia, I didn´t expect she would answer! But she did and was extremely kind to me. She is no specialist of withdrawal, that´s true, but she does specialise in the mutations!

Two things I will remember: she simply wrote me: you have to live.

And she added that most of her patients (from her study I suppose) recovered from akathisia within 18 months.

I hold her in high esteem for her work and for her kindness as well.

Put on trazadone for 8 weeks. Psychic akathisia started on 100 mg. Not a single doctor believed me telling me it is all anxiety in my head. Terrible suicidal urges. Got voluntary hospitalised. Acknoledged adverse reaction, put me off cold turkey. Instalated mirtazapine to block the reaction of trazadone. 5 weeks on mirtazapine.acathisia worsened, suicidal, homicidal urges. Nobody believed. Finally they stopped mirtazapine cold turkey. My heighest dose of trazadone was 200 mg, of mirtazapine 30 mg. Since the c/t, suicidal, acathisia continuing.

tried promethazine for sleep. Tried atarax. Currently taking klonopin for 10 days. Good for sleep, but my condition worsening. Unable to tell if it is klonopin or a bad wave.

In the former hospital i took twice gabapentin. It should be all my medication.

i was offered promethazin for sleep 25 mg and also small amount of quetiapine. Both are antipsychotics, even if ptomethszin very weak. Terribly afraid.

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Lecture given by Yolande Lucire, PhD MBBS:

 

Dr Lucire is a forensic psychiatrist. Her expertise encompasses epidemic hysteria, epidemic somatization and moral panics.

 

Watching this video made me realize just how lethal these drugs can be for some people.  She explains why some people react so badly.

 

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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WinningThrough

Hi muddles and wolfhound. Muddles..great that you spoke to her and are having the test. I'd be interested in having this test too. Interesting (and terrible) that you had reactions to antibiotics. I've had severe reactions to two different anti biotics too.

 

I'd love to speak to Yolande lucire too..do you know how I can do this?

 

Thanks :-)

The only way out is through.

 

Aug 2013 - Augmentin leading to akathisia

Sept-Nov 2013 - Citalopram 20mg, severe reaction, off at 5mg. Valium 4mg, prn

Oct 2013 - 5 zopiclone tablets, 7.5mg

End Nov 2013-end Feb 2014, Seroquel, top dose 150mg, off at 25mg

End Nov 2013-early march 2014, Zoloft 100mg top dose, off at 25mg

End Dec-2013-early April 2014, lorazepam 1mg prn

April 3rd 2014 zoloft 5mg for a few days. 18/4/14 - zoloft, 1mg. Came off at 0.35 mg,14th June 2014

29 June 2014 - 1mg lorazepam, last ever

29 June 2014 - med free

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Hi WT,

Dr. Yolanda Lucire is an Australian forensic psychiatrist, author of a very interesting study about akathisia. You can find one of her speeches on youtube if I am not mistaken.

I found her email somewhere online. I googled her. But I didn´t spoke to her directly, Muddles did.

Put on trazadone for 8 weeks. Psychic akathisia started on 100 mg. Not a single doctor believed me telling me it is all anxiety in my head. Terrible suicidal urges. Got voluntary hospitalised. Acknoledged adverse reaction, put me off cold turkey. Instalated mirtazapine to block the reaction of trazadone. 5 weeks on mirtazapine.acathisia worsened, suicidal, homicidal urges. Nobody believed. Finally they stopped mirtazapine cold turkey. My heighest dose of trazadone was 200 mg, of mirtazapine 30 mg. Since the c/t, suicidal, acathisia continuing.

tried promethazine for sleep. Tried atarax. Currently taking klonopin for 10 days. Good for sleep, but my condition worsening. Unable to tell if it is klonopin or a bad wave.

In the former hospital i took twice gabapentin. It should be all my medication.

i was offered promethazin for sleep 25 mg and also small amount of quetiapine. Both are antipsychotics, even if ptomethszin very weak. Terribly afraid.

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Altostrata

Merged related topics.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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WinningThrough

I spoke to dr lucire on skype. Lovely lady. She said I'd had seretonin toxicity and that I now have chronic post withdrawal akathisia. She said in order to recover from the Akathisia I need to be completely off the drugs.

The only way out is through.

 

Aug 2013 - Augmentin leading to akathisia

Sept-Nov 2013 - Citalopram 20mg, severe reaction, off at 5mg. Valium 4mg, prn

Oct 2013 - 5 zopiclone tablets, 7.5mg

End Nov 2013-end Feb 2014, Seroquel, top dose 150mg, off at 25mg

End Nov 2013-early march 2014, Zoloft 100mg top dose, off at 25mg

End Dec-2013-early April 2014, lorazepam 1mg prn

April 3rd 2014 zoloft 5mg for a few days. 18/4/14 - zoloft, 1mg. Came off at 0.35 mg,14th June 2014

29 June 2014 - 1mg lorazepam, last ever

29 June 2014 - med free

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Altostrata

Did your symptoms get better or worse after you reinstated sertaline?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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It sounds like she knows a lot about the damage these drugs can do and the genetic underpinnings, but maybe not as much about how to get people off of them safely. Which makes sense, it's a lot to learn and it doesn't sound like it's her area of specialty (tapering). 

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                   1

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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WinningThrough

Hi Alto :-)

 

I reinstated at 5mg. The brain zaps and eye improved after this but when I looked in my diary I realised that I'd taken lorazepam the day before this happened (I haven't had any since then..a few weeks ago now). I still got the exhaustion and crying spells.

 

On 5mg other things started to ramp up again later in the week..rapid heartbeat, chest tightness, akathisia got worse and the adrenaline rushes started up again. The brain zaps came back a bit. An unacceptable symptom started to re-emerge and it freaked me out so I dropped down to 1mg and came off. Just after that I had a good evening and good day..the best I'd had, then the following day I got hit really hard with withdrawal again..worse than the first time I came off the drug.

 

After a time I reinstated again at 1mg and I've been on this for about 4 weeks now, I think. I'm going through eithdrwal like crazy. The brain zaps and eye pressure are a bit better but now my vision is really blurry. It's deteriorated rapidly the last few days. The akathisia has been getting worse too.

 

I'm not at easy case to solve!! I'm too flippin sensitive!!

The only way out is through.

 

Aug 2013 - Augmentin leading to akathisia

Sept-Nov 2013 - Citalopram 20mg, severe reaction, off at 5mg. Valium 4mg, prn

Oct 2013 - 5 zopiclone tablets, 7.5mg

End Nov 2013-end Feb 2014, Seroquel, top dose 150mg, off at 25mg

End Nov 2013-early march 2014, Zoloft 100mg top dose, off at 25mg

End Dec-2013-early April 2014, lorazepam 1mg prn

April 3rd 2014 zoloft 5mg for a few days. 18/4/14 - zoloft, 1mg. Came off at 0.35 mg,14th June 2014

29 June 2014 - 1mg lorazepam, last ever

29 June 2014 - med free

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I spoke to dr lucire on skype. Lovely lady. She said I'd had seretonin toxicity and that I now have chronic post withdrawal akathisia. She said in order to recover from the Akathisia I need to be completely off the drugs.

WT it's up to you, of course. We've already noted that you are someone who should never take these drugs and that right now it's a "rock and a hard place" situation for you--the trouble the drugs cause, versus the withdrawal.

 

From above comments I am not sure that Dr. Lucire realizes how tough withdrawal can be.

 

Personally I think your very low dose reinstatement is a reasonable compromise right now, followed by a safe gradual taper off that low dose (once you're more stable) and then never taking any psych drug again. I agree, you're a tricky case and it's a difficult situation. You just have to do the best you can.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                   1

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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Altostrata

WT, it sounds like 5mg might have been too much for you.

 

Akathisia can be an adverse effect from taking a drug or it can be a withdrawal symptom.

 

Dr. Lucire is focused on adverse effects of drugs. In her world, akathisia results from taking drugs and the treatment is to stop drugs.

 

As Rhi said, Dr. Lucire may not be aware akathisia also can be caused by withdrawal.

 

In your case, you had akathisia on citalopram and it got worse when you went off; you could have both types of akathisia. From your Intro topic:

 

WT, that's a fairly fast schedule of going off Seroquel. You may be suffering a withdrawal reaction from that as well.

 

It's hard to say what to do. I can understand your reluctance to take either drug again. But reinstatement of a very small amount of citalopram is a way to test the waters. You can back off quickly if it does not help.

 

Listening to your body is the best way to determine the best course of action. If 1mg reduces withdrawal symptoms, perhaps that's the way to go.

 

You may have waves of symptoms until your nervous system stabilizes, one way or the other.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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WinningThrough

Thanks Rhi and Alto for your kind replies. Apols for hijacking this topic! That wasn't my intention..just wanted to add on here that she'd spoken to me and what she had said. I may do the gene test.

 

Youre right..she knows loads about adverse reactions but perhaps not about withdrawal. I'm sticking with my 1mg.

The only way out is through.

 

Aug 2013 - Augmentin leading to akathisia

Sept-Nov 2013 - Citalopram 20mg, severe reaction, off at 5mg. Valium 4mg, prn

Oct 2013 - 5 zopiclone tablets, 7.5mg

End Nov 2013-end Feb 2014, Seroquel, top dose 150mg, off at 25mg

End Nov 2013-early march 2014, Zoloft 100mg top dose, off at 25mg

End Dec-2013-early April 2014, lorazepam 1mg prn

April 3rd 2014 zoloft 5mg for a few days. 18/4/14 - zoloft, 1mg. Came off at 0.35 mg,14th June 2014

29 June 2014 - 1mg lorazepam, last ever

29 June 2014 - med free

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Altostrata

Not a hijack, not a problem!

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Is this the testing

DMEx Genotype Panel

 

 

http://www.iversongenetics.com/dme-genotype.html

 

not trying to promote anything just want to know if this is it?

 

I recall talk of this years ago but it did not make as much sense as it does after watching this video it now makes sense that I reacted very badly to both prozac and paxil... suffering hard after quitting after short term use.  

I have just now a very vivid memory of looking at the pink pill in the package as I was still on the trial of paxil ...I was not thinking the drug was causing the wild feeling I was not really thinking at all.. but looking it was time to take it again... it was in a drawer and I shut the drawer... and did not take any more... 

 

Still the effects meant I was on another roll and not going to trust myself to a walk in clinic went to a major hosp a commute so far away I had to get up a 4 am to make it for their day program... every day... what a joke was jerked again there. 

 

I want this testing. 

Any hints how I go about getting it?  

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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UnfoldingSky

btdt, there's info about those kinds of tests on this thread:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2158-genetic-testing-personalized-medicine-liver-enzymes-genotypes-genesightrx-etc/page-2?hl=+genetic%20+testing

 

Also I believe I heard maybe a year ago or so ago that they have the tests at a clinic in Toronto?  or somewhere else in Ontario. If I recall properly they were a hundred dollars.  There was some anticipation they would be widely used soon but I don't know if that was just hype to try to sell the tests to the public. 

 

I had a doctor who it seemed was going to order this test for me, then forgot.  When I brought it up again, all of a sudden it was a "no go" topic.  I suspect she thought I was going to sue re the reactions I had, since I was there about ongoing iatrogenic issues.

 

So if you get it done it may be you have to cook up a different reason for wanting it. 

I am not a medical professional and nothing I say is a medical opinion or meant to be medical advice, please seek a competent and trusted medical professional to consult for all medical decisions.

 

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Thanks UFS I looked at the link... I am not done trying to find a way to get this testing that I can afford. 

I called this business

http://info.youscript.com/YouScriptRequestDoctors/

and talked to a person there who said it costs $ 1,196.00...

can't afford it.

The conversation was interesting.  Seems the problem with birth control pills I had would be a good clue I was going to have a problem with prozac and atenolol... and paxil... I am convinced I have an issue with this but as yet have not found a way to get it.  

On the last drug reaction alone I am not being sent off to see no less than 4 specialist surely it would be cheaper to do the test and stop giving me drugs that hurt me.  Most of the tests are in the first 2 wks of June one is Aug...sorry that makes 5 specialists not what I want to do with my summer after being shut in all last year recovering from and accident and surgery... yep I am complaining... sorry for that. 

It seems to me this makes complete sense for a person like me who is reacting to every drug they give me.  I will keep looking so far I have not found the place in Canada that can do the testing... I searched Toronto and came up empty but may need to modify my search criteria. 

Thanks for the heads up. 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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UnfoldingSky

Thanks UFS I looked at the link... I am not done trying to find a way to get this testing that I can afford. 

I called this business

http://info.youscript.com/YouScriptRequestDoctors/

and talked to a person there who said it costs $ 1,196.00...

can't afford it.

The conversation was interesting.  Seems the problem with birth control pills I had would be a good clue I was going to have a problem with prozac and atenolol... and paxil... I am convinced I have an issue with this but as yet have not found a way to get it.  

On the last drug reaction alone I am not being sent off to see no less than 4 specialist surely it would be cheaper to do the test and stop giving me drugs that hurt me.  Most of the tests are in the first 2 wks of June one is Aug...sorry that makes 5 specialists not what I want to do with my summer after being shut in all last year recovering from and accident and surgery... yep I am complaining... sorry for that. 

It seems to me this makes complete sense for a person like me who is reacting to every drug they give me.  I will keep looking so far I have not found the place in Canada that can do the testing... I searched Toronto and came up empty but may need to modify my search criteria. 

Thanks for the heads up. 

 

No problem, glad it was some help to you.

 

Eek, that price tag is really steep though...Years ago I remember people writing they had similar tests done and I could swear it was "only" seven hundred dollars.

 

I would keep looking for a Canadian site as I am convinced it is nowhere near that cost here.  (I feel sorry that the Americans are being ripped off like that...They should probably also look for a Canadian site, as I heard recently many Americans are coming up here for other procedures because they are cheaper here, even paying out of pocket.)

 

I don't blame you for not wanting to spend your summer being poked and prodded, it does get old after a while.  :)  Especially for that kind of money.

 

At least you got a partial explanation though as to what was going on. 

I am not a medical professional and nothing I say is a medical opinion or meant to be medical advice, please seek a competent and trusted medical professional to consult for all medical decisions.

 

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UnfoldingSky

I am going to talk to my primary care doctor and maybe a few of these specialists I have to keep making rich... 

see if one of them will go along with this testing.

 

Let us know what they say.

I am not a medical professional and nothing I say is a medical opinion or meant to be medical advice, please seek a competent and trusted medical professional to consult for all medical decisions.

 

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Altostrata

I believe Dr. Lucire relies on liver enzyme tests for P450 cytochromes. If you are not taking drugs or thinking about it, the results would be of academic interest only.

 

I had this done and have not found the results the least bit useful in any way.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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UnfoldingSky

Alto, thank you for weighing in.

 

Did you have any adverse reactions (before withdrawal)? 

I am not a medical professional and nothing I say is a medical opinion or meant to be medical advice, please seek a competent and trusted medical professional to consult for all medical decisions.

 

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Altostrata

I had a severe drug-drug interaction between Paxil and terbinafine, an antifungal with a black box warning for liver damage, which my doctor ignored. I got liver damage, apparently because of Paxil's powerful inhibition of liver enzyme cyp 2D6. It took my liver enzymes a year to go back to normal.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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UnfoldingSky

Sorry to hear that, sounds awful. 

 

It's not likely the tests catch problems like kindling reactions or withdrawal sensitivity reactions right?  Unless maybe you were already likely to have an issue with that drug prior to withdrawal?

I am not a medical professional and nothing I say is a medical opinion or meant to be medical advice, please seek a competent and trusted medical professional to consult for all medical decisions.

 

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Altostrata

All the cyp tests are good for is to avoid drug-drug interactions and adverse reactions if you are a poor or a fast metabolizer via one of the identified cyp liver enzymes.

 

Once the system is sensitized and prone to kindling, all bets are off, you might have an adverse reaction to anything.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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My cousin took the toenail fungus drug she had a change in who she was while on it..lamisil same one you took... a short time after she went off the rails she had a drop attack.  Tests showed she had an aneurysm... not sure any of it was related. Just more hearsay...

 

As for this " once the system is sensitized and prone to kindling" Is this forever?  

I seem to be reacting to everything and it seems to be going on for years.  If this is so then the testing will likely make little difference not sure I can't pay what they want I don't have it and have no way of getting it... I will soon have teeth removed as I can't afford to fix them... really  short.  I did not think this would ever happen to me yet here I am. Not whining just stating. 

peace

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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Please Alto...

Is it know if Kindling is something that can go on for years or not?

It has been a number of years now... I keep reacting badly to drugs.  I want this testing because of all the drug reactions I have.  If kindling is something that carries on for a year or two after a drug is taking... that is one thing... but it is a forever thing??? as that is something quit different in my mind. 

 

Is there an answer to this or not?  If there is please tell me.  

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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Altostrata

Kindling = hypersensitivity. It can go on for years. It can lessen if you stay away from the things you react to and let your system settle down.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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Thanks Alto. 

In that case it may well be that is my issue.  However I have made a doctors apt to ask to have the testing done as there are too many reactions.  I am guessing having fibrosis in my liver is not helping anything still if there is any way to predict which drugs would be better perhaps we can lessen the drug reactions I have.  I already have a long list of drugs I can't take and I can't afford to keep pushing the drug factor.  It seems reactions the last few years have been more and more serious in nature. I am not sure what is going on with me just now but I am experiencing something like anxiety... after the atenolol reaction not sure if it is rebound thing but suspect it may be.  Today I gave in and started small amounts of taurine again.  I don't generally take it a lot but may need it for a short time to get stable. 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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  • 8 months later...
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This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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All the cyp tests are good for is to avoid drug-drug interactions and adverse reactions if you are a poor or a fast metabolizer via one of the identified cyp liver enzymes.

 

Once the system is sensitized and prone to kindling, all bets are off, you might have an adverse reaction to anything.

I did not get the testing not sure what happened as I completely forgot about this. There were other tests I wanted to get too I was making a list and put the list in a book ... I need to find the book... 

I think with me just now all bets are off still as I am back to reacting to things I had recovered from such as the dishwasher soap... ugh. I am focused on staying away from drugs best I can so hopefully time and tho I am not eating great I am eating not bad... waiting to get well enough to eat great as it takes a lot of work to do it right. 

peace all

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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Hi All ,  

  

If anyone is interested in having genetic testing for genes in the CYP2 family  (the genes that metabolize a/d's )    they could contact Dr. Lucire via her website

"adversereactionsaustralia.com"   and she could advise who to contact near to where you live.    You send off a cheek swab to a lab.

As alto says , there's no real advantage to knowing , but for me it was just another piece of the puzzle.

Yola certainly understands that akathisia is part of withdrawal , but even she knows of no way to stop it other than reinstating or restarting.

I'm going to share with her what I've learned here about tapering by 10% . . . she's very open to learning about it from an insiders' perspective.

 

Fresh

1987-1997 pertofran , prothiaden , Prozac 1997-2002 Zoloft 2002-2004 effexor 2004-2010 Lexapro 40mg

2010-2012Cymbalta 120mg

Sept. 2012 -decreased 90mg in 6months. Care taken over by Dr Lucire in March 2013 , decreased last 30mg at 2mg per week over 3 months. July 21 , 2013- last dose of Cymbalta

Protracted withdrawal syndrome kicked in badly Jan.2014 Unrelenting akathisia until May 2014. Voluntary hosp. admission. Cocktail of Seroquel, Ativan and mirtazapine and I was well enough to go home after 14 days. Stopped all hosp. meds in next few months.

July 2014 felt v.depressed - couldn't stop crying. Started pristiq 50mg. Felt improvement within days and continued to improve, so stayed on 50mg for 8 months.

Began taper 28 Feb. 2015. Pristiq 50mg down to 45mg. Had one month of w/d symptoms. Started CES therapy in March. No w/d symptoms down to 30mg.

October 2015 , taking 25mg Pristiq. Capsules compounded with slow-release additive.

March 2016 , 21mg

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Hi All ,  

  

If anyone is interested in having genetic testing for genes in the CYP2 family  (the genes that metabolize a/d's )    they could contact Dr. Lucire via her website

"adversereactionsaustralia.com"   and she could advise who to contact near to where you live.    You send off a cheek swab to a lab.

As alto says , there's no real advantage to knowing , but for me it was just another piece of the puzzle.

Yola certainly understands that akathisia is part of withdrawal , but even she knows of no way to stop it other than reinstating or restarting.

I'm going to share with her what I've learned here about tapering by 10% . . . she's very open to learning about it from an insiders' perspective.

 

Fresh

There are some doctors in the US who have an agreement with Genomind where they test all their patients and write appeal letters if ins. won't pay. Then Genomind agrees to not bill the patients, just accept the insurance reimbursement. I am not sure if those are their "preferred providers" or not. I haphazardly ran into a doctor like that...it is what made her stop hounding me to try more drugs and understand why I was dosing so often, but those are things you figure out in tapering anyway. Although it doesn't apply here, if someone was starting drugs, I think they really do need it.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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I had this done last febuary and it did show that i was alergic to many antidepressants including zoloft. Too late after you have suffered adverse reaction. This should be offered prior to giving antidepressants to patients. I would love to see the laws change in Australia and that this test should be compulsory when prescribing ad's.

DRUG HISTORY:

 

November 2013- Zoloft, ( Bad reaction).

January 2014 - March 2014 Seroquel.( Quit Cold Turkey).

January2014- Mirtazapine, I was taking 15mg at one stage, reduced to 7.5mg, Pgad reactions to Mirtazapine. Doctor kept increasing it to 37.5mg, until July 2014. No improvement, experiencing panic attacks, on 37.5 mg. I had enough by October 2014. Began tapering.

October 2014- Started tapering Mirtazapine from 37.5mg.

September 2015- Down to 4mg of Mirtazapine. Crashed.

September 16th- Up dosed to 5mg. Held this dose for almost 5 months. Stabilised.

February 2016- Began tapering again. From 5mg to 4.5mg of Mirtazapine. (Rocking the boat, again)! Lol. :(

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi guys,

I saw Dr. Yolande Lucire and I thinks she's  great , she understood about withdrowal and I recommend people to see her, I think she skyp's. I was very impressed with her knowledge about all the drugs and I feel safe having her look after me.

1995 started Paxil 20mg slowly increasing to 50mg until 2014

-2014 I decided to tapper myself not knowing how too and crashed , DR added 50mg Seraquel

-2015 tried tapering again and crashed

Seroquel Taper

2/11/16 43mg  1/09/17  37.5mg  10/03/10 36.25mg. 17/3/19 35mg 26/3/19 33.75mg  4/4/19 32.5mg  21/4/19 30mg

16/7/19 28.75mg  5/8/19 27.5mg. 19/8/19 25mg   4/8/20 23mg 18/8/20 22.5mg  12/10/20 18.25mg  10/1/21 15mg  3/8/21 UPDOSE 16mg

Paxil Taper

2/11/16 40mg 12/10/17 37mg  28/10/17 36mg  10/1/18. 35mg  24/05/18 33mg  28/8/18 31mg 16/12/18 30mg 20/10/19 29mg  17/11/19 28mg 7/1/20  27mg 12/2/20  26mg 7/3 /20 25mg  11/4/20 24mg 4/5/20 23mg  5/6/20 22mg 23/6/20 21mg 15/7/20 20mg

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