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Is it always going to be like this?


Nickie
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Hi all,

 

I'm not sure if this is the correct place for this, but I have a couple of questions.

 

My WD condition is BAD, my nervous system is so hypersensitive right now that the mere act of ingesting food (yes, eating) is throwing it off almost everytime, although this is improving. I react to taking vitamins, and I can't use the computer because the light makes me crazy (photosensitivity). Looking back, it is very possible that I have been in this state for as many as 15 years unknowingly, and have just been damaging my system more and more as I tried drug after drug and switched them around repeatedly.

 

I am reconciling myself to the fact that this will likely take a long time to heal. I am wondering, however, whether there is a direct relationship between the amount of damage, and the length of time required to heal, or whether its a case by case timeframe. Can someone with severe damage heal relatively quickly (by that I mean in 2 years or less) or am I definitely doomed to 4, 5, or more years because my case is so severe?

 

The thing is, my husband and I would love to have another baby, maybe in another year and a half or so. I had 2 babies while unknowingly in withdrawal, and the pregnancies were VERY difficult as a result. I fortunately was able to give birth both times without needing anesthetic, but a pregnancy in my current state would not be a good idea. If, because of the severity of my condition, it is likely that I won't recover for many years, I may have to rethink my plans for another baby in the 2 year timeframe.

 

Any input would be most appreciated.

Nickie

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No one knows enough to predict how long withdrawal will take - none of us here on the forum, not doctors, not science. The antidepressant withdrawal syndrome isn't even officially recognized here in the USA. I expect that someday, likely many decades from now, someone will be able to figure out the length of withdrawal time for an individual based on the drug(s) taken, the dosage, the length of time involved, and the person's general health at the beginning of withdrawal.

 

If there's one thing withdrawal has taught me, it's to take things one day at a time. I definitely wouldn't worry about something that I hope will happen one or more years into the future. The fact that you're having a very difficult withdrawal doesn't necessarily mean that it will take a long time for you to get back to normal, so don't tie yourself in knots about that either. It may take a long time, but it may not.

 

Sensitivities to certain foods and light are very common in early withdrawal. Read through some of the posts in this section that relate to your particular symptoms, especially the articles posted by Altostrata. The advice on sleeping difficulties helped me quite a lot, and getting a decent night's sleep has further helped other sensitivies to heal. In the meantime, simply avoid those foods that disagree with you, keep your curtains drawn, wear sunglasses when you must go out (or even inside if necessary), and wear a sleep mask at night. I'm exceedingly fond of my cheap little sleep mask from Rite Aid which allowed me to sleep after months of hyperactivity and insomnia.

 

Be as easy on yourself as possible. Withdrawal syndrome is an illness which takes time and patience to heal.

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1588-introducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6263-success-jemima-survives-lexapro-and-dr-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 

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I agree. I too have a cheap sleep mask which was wonderful when drawing my triple layer curtains wasn't enough. I no longer need the mask, I'm in my 18 month of WD, but still have to wear cotton wool in my ears, sometimes when going out & sunglasses to due to the light. I have to have the TV on low & the radio too. I can't listen to music with drums in it, only ambient, flowing music or beautiful birdsong, sounds of the seashore or rainforest soundscapes from http://www.sleepbot.com/ambience/broadcast/ some are dark & disturbing soundscapes but many are profoundly beautiful & lots of recordings of nature too. Perfect listeing for me anyway...but even then, I have to switch everything off. My Cats' meeows can cut right through my head like a splinter of glass to the point where I want to scream because it's so disturbing, like it's cutting me...same with doors banging, my nerves are like those volume meter's you see where the slightest click on your record shows a spike on the meter...then I have to shut my curtains, cotton wool in my ears, & lay in the darkness...totally withdraw from all stimuli...did anyone read Charly's advice from anti-depressantsfacts.com? http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/reaction.htm It's really good, I think it's on tribes.net on effexor activists or something like...but it was really good advice, avoid violent or emotionally charged tv programs, music, social gatherings, people, anything that is going to stimulate your raw nervous system which is oober-mega-raw if you're in WD. I was getting inter-dose WD from my benzo which I'm now tapering right off, I didn't realise it until I started reading Dr Peter R Breggin's book, 'Your Drug May Be Your Problem' It's an amazing book, absolutely a must read for every human in fact. His websites are of enormous value & significance http://www.breggin.com http://www.empathictherapy.org http://www.toxicpsychiatry.com

But yes, absolutely, one day at a time, love yourself as you would someone you truly love, nurture yourself you're going through a life changing process, it will be worth it & you're a survivor to have got this far.

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Hi Nickie. Stay positive. If you keep as positive a mind as possible it will help you heal. Affirmations can be so helpful. Have you seen any documentaries or read books about the power of thoughts and healing? The Secret is a very good movie. I highly recommend that.

 

Deep breathing exercise is also very healing to the brain and nervous system. This doesn't hurt us like some supplements do.

 

Hang in there. Tell yourself it won't be long at all and it will help manifest that reality.

Taper from Cymbalta, Paxil, Prozac & Antipsychotics finished June 2012.

Xanax 5% Taper - (8/12 - .5 mg) - (9/12 - .45) - (10/12 - .43) - (11/12 - .41) - (12/12 - .38)

My Paxil Website

My Intro

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Hi Nickie. Stay positive. If you keep as positive a mind as possible it will help you heal. Affirmations can be so helpful. Have you seen any documentaries or read books about the power of thoughts and healing? The Secret is a very good movie. I highly recommend that.

 

Deep breathing exercise is also very healing to the brain and nervous system. This doesn't hurt us like some supplements do.

 

Hang in there. Tell yourself it won't be long at all and it will help manifest that reality.

 

Deep breathing has also been used for many years as a vocal warmup before singing.

History:

1995--Prozac--Quit CT by GP

1995--Effexor--Quit per my GP

1996--Amitriphene--Quit CT when changed GP

2005--Citalopram and BusPar. Prescribed when I decompensated in my GP's office. GP referred me to behavior health. Psychiatrist prescibed these drugs. Taken off citalopram in 2011 due to FDA warning. Quit Buspar during transition to viibryd.

Viibryd--2011 to present. Had a severe reaction in March 2012. Advised both GP and Psychiatrist I was trying to get off these drugs.

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Either I am the worst deep breather ever or it just doesn't work for me lol

Everything was ok. And then it wasn't.

 

Med History

11/2009- 50 mg Zoloft (1st ad ever) in combo w/.50 xanax for 2 weeks then use xanax as needed (1st benzo ever)

9 days on Zoloft, I was awake for 9 days straight C/T Zoloft

11/2009- trazadone to sleep for 2 weeks c/t Trazadone

12/2009 start 10 mg Lexapro w/ Xanax as needed

5/2010-3 week taper off lexapro

9/2010? back to Lexapro 10 mg after 5 or 6 weeks c/t leapro

12/2010-10mg paxil

5/2011-6 week paxil taper

8/2011 5mg lexapro

last lexapro pill January 7 2012

all this as per doc orders Thanks Doc!

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Either I am the worst deep breather ever or it just doesn't work for me lol

 

The techniques that I, and a lot of singers use, is take in as much air as you can while counting to 10. Hold your breath while counting to 10. Finally, exhale in a controlled manner while counting to 10.

History:

1995--Prozac--Quit CT by GP

1995--Effexor--Quit per my GP

1996--Amitriphene--Quit CT when changed GP

2005--Citalopram and BusPar. Prescribed when I decompensated in my GP's office. GP referred me to behavior health. Psychiatrist prescibed these drugs. Taken off citalopram in 2011 due to FDA warning. Quit Buspar during transition to viibryd.

Viibryd--2011 to present. Had a severe reaction in March 2012. Advised both GP and Psychiatrist I was trying to get off these drugs.

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Sounds like a good technique meistersinger.

 

Aj, you might not feel noticeable results in withdrawal symptoms, but I believe it can only help speed up the healing of our brain and nervous system to get more oxygen to the cells through the blood. Especially when we aren't able to take many supplements and eat very well. Lack of exercise too. Stretching btw can help too.

Taper from Cymbalta, Paxil, Prozac & Antipsychotics finished June 2012.

Xanax 5% Taper - (8/12 - .5 mg) - (9/12 - .45) - (10/12 - .43) - (11/12 - .41) - (12/12 - .38)

My Paxil Website

My Intro

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Thank you both! I do try deep breathing every day. Can you tell me how long... Or how many times per day ? I usually do it once a day for about 3 minutes. ? I am just past 3 months. The dizziness and brain "pauses" as well as the nausea really stink.

Everything was ok. And then it wasn't.

 

Med History

11/2009- 50 mg Zoloft (1st ad ever) in combo w/.50 xanax for 2 weeks then use xanax as needed (1st benzo ever)

9 days on Zoloft, I was awake for 9 days straight C/T Zoloft

11/2009- trazadone to sleep for 2 weeks c/t Trazadone

12/2009 start 10 mg Lexapro w/ Xanax as needed

5/2010-3 week taper off lexapro

9/2010? back to Lexapro 10 mg after 5 or 6 weeks c/t leapro

12/2010-10mg paxil

5/2011-6 week paxil taper

8/2011 5mg lexapro

last lexapro pill January 7 2012

all this as per doc orders Thanks Doc!

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Thank you both! I do try deep breathing every day. Can you tell me how long... Or how many times per day ? I usually do it once a day for about 3 minutes. ? I am just past 3 months. The dizziness and brain "pauses" as well as the nausea really stink.

 

Ajnjj,

 

I catch myself shallow chest breathing very frequently. I've been taught many times how to properly deep breathe into the abdomen, but when not paying attention, find that I revert to shallow chest breathing. That is when I find myself getting lightheaded and even hyperventilating. I'm not sure how to make deep breathing my 'default' as I think it is supposed to be (please correct me if I'm wrong, anyone).

I've found aromatherapy to be helpful. Everyone responds

differently to different oils, so try a few. Lavendar is very popular, but I prefer a blend of lavendar and mandarin or some citrus. The mandarin is uplifting for me. Camomile is good but quite expensive ($40 for a tiny bottle compared to $5-10 for most others). I can't stress enough that scents are VERY individual. Also, be sure to buy pure essential oils because body lotions and sprays have alcohol and many other ingredients that inhibit effects or may cause problems if sensitive to smells.

If you have access to biofeedback, that helped me learn progressive relaxation and breathing techniques.

Barb

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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My WD condition is BAD, my nervous system is so hypersensitive right now that the mere act of ingesting food (yes, eating) is throwing it off almost everytime, although this is improving. I react to taking vitamins, and I can't use the computer because the light makes me crazy (photosensitivity). Looking back, it is very possible that I have been in this state for as many as 15 years unknowingly, and have just been damaging my system more and more as I tried drug after drug and switched them around repeatedly.

 

That's a lot you just wrote. I've shared a lot of your problems. I've had problems with foods -- nuts, sardines, seeds, others -- and been unable to tolerate them. I had to elmnate those foods. Some foods, all on the above list, I now tolerate well. Other foods, due to complications of my w/d, like bread I still must avoid. I'd advise caution with supplements. Are you taking fractional doses to try? I also experienced sensitivity with light and computer screens. Sunglasses and blue blockers helped me A LOT.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/304-light-sensitive-try-blocking-out-blue-light/page__p__3231__hl__%2Bblue+%2Blight+%2Bglasses__fromsearch__1#entry3231

 

Last year, I could not go outside in April, we get a lot of sun, but for a few minutes without getting sick and w/d symptoms worsening. This has gotten a lot better. I just soaked in bright sun rays for 30 minutes and feel fine, w/d wise. So it has gotten better with time. My best advice is to avoid the things that make you worse. After a while, when you're feeling better, restart but try just a tiny bit. Honestly, if I was in your position, my first goal would be to stabilize that is not try to get better just do your best to not make things worse. I wish I had the chance to go back in time and be more cautious.

 

I am reconciling myself to the fact that this will likely take a long time to heal. I am wondering, however, whether there is a direct relationship between the amount of damage, and the length of time required to heal, or whether its a case by case timeframe. Can someone with severe damage heal relatively quickly (by that I mean in 2 years or less) or am I definitely doomed to 4, 5, or more years because my case is so severe?

 

I don't know. It seems perfectly possible but it's not something I'd recommend concentrating on. I know how tough it is right now and I'm so sorry you're dealing with these problems. Maintaining a positive outlook, as hard as it can be, has really helped me. I suspect it will help you too. So, if you want to recover in two years, tell yourself everyday that gentle healing will bring resolution n two years. This belief, of itself, can be self-fulfilling, promoting of recovery and carries no risk.

 

The thing is, my husband and I would love to have another baby, maybe in another year and a half or so. I had 2 babies while unknowingly in withdrawal, and the pregnancies were VERY difficult as a result. I fortunately was able to give birth both times without needing anesthetic, but a pregnancy in my current state would not be a good idea. If, because of the severity of my condition, it is likely that I won't recover for many years, I may have to rethink my plans for another baby in the 2 year timeframe.

 

As a male, this isn't my area of expertise. I think though that for the right now, you are wise to consider waiting.

 

I'm really sorry you're having to deal with this and for all the time it has cost you already.

 

Best,

Alex

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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Hi Nickie

 

It can take a long time to heal, and then there are people who managed to bounce back in a relatively short time. What I remember reading about was noticing the 'good window' and how they do come closer and closer together over time.

 

Jemima I really love your response to Nickie's question...one day at a time. Sleep, self care, avoiding what causes problems to crop up. Don't worry over the future, etc.

 

Nickie when you start to worry or feel down re-read Jemima's post.

 

Shanti the positive affirmations are very good. I haven't watched The Secret in a long time, sometimes in the AM I will read a little bit of it to 'emit a ew frequency.'

In the last few weeks I was quite depressed and when depression sets in...I notice I can't infuse or believe affirmations. I guess that is the nature of depression. Once the tide shifts, and my mood lifts, I can tap into a more positive mind-set.

 

Hugs

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1902-nikki-hi-my-rundown-with-ads/

 

Paxil 1997-2004

Crossed over to Lexapro Paxil not available

at Pharmacies GSK halted deliveries

Lexapro 40mgs

Lexapro taper (2years)

Imipramine

Imipramine and Celexa

Now Nefazadone/Imipramine 50mgs. each

45mgs. Serzone  50mgs. Imipramine

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Chamomile is good but quite expensive ($40 for a tiny bottle compared to $5-10 for most others).

Chamomile tea smells and tastes really wonderful, especially with a tablespoon of honey, raw or the usual, and it's a lot cheaper than the essential oil.

Psychotropic drug history: Pristiq 50 mg. (mid-September 2010 through February 2011), Remeron (mid-September 2010 through January 2011), Lexapro 10 mg. (mid-February 2011 through mid-December 2011), Lorazepam (Ativan) 1 mg. as needed mid-September 2010 through early March 2012

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor


Introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1588-introducing-jemima/

 

Success Story: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6263-success-jemima-survives-lexapro-and-dr-dickhead-too/

Please note that I am not a medical professional and my advice is based on personal experience, reading, and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers.

 

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I love all these pieces if advice! Is like to hear more about the type if reaction Alex has to nuts? This may apply to me. Also, after 3 months. I thought is be feeling a ton better!!! It seems this is not the case. Im frustrated.

Everything was ok. And then it wasn't.

 

Med History

11/2009- 50 mg Zoloft (1st ad ever) in combo w/.50 xanax for 2 weeks then use xanax as needed (1st benzo ever)

9 days on Zoloft, I was awake for 9 days straight C/T Zoloft

11/2009- trazadone to sleep for 2 weeks c/t Trazadone

12/2009 start 10 mg Lexapro w/ Xanax as needed

5/2010-3 week taper off lexapro

9/2010? back to Lexapro 10 mg after 5 or 6 weeks c/t leapro

12/2010-10mg paxil

5/2011-6 week paxil taper

8/2011 5mg lexapro

last lexapro pill January 7 2012

all this as per doc orders Thanks Doc!

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  • 2 years later...
  • Moderator Emeritus

Grrrr....

 

I went a week with almost no wd symptoms.Then, as I wrote, I began to feel it's onset Monday morning. It subsided by late afternoon, but I've had it every morning since, along with some mild body tension and jaw pressure as well as some difficulty being able to sit sill or focused on something like reading. . The anxiety causes me to feel easily overwhelmed by tasks I need to complete for work, and I end up putting them off. Except for Monday the symptoms dissipate by early afternoon, but this week it's left me too tired really be able to get done in the afternoon what I didn't get done in the morning. I'm lucky in that, although uncomfortable and disheartening, they are for the most part tolerable. I'm an expert at hiding my symptoms and appearing as if nothing is going on... That being said, if I weren't working at home right now, I don't know if that would be the case. The anxiety does make my work difficult, so that's probably adding to the anxiety... Creating a stupid loop.

 

Its funny how the return of symptoms automatically make me wonder if I'll always have to deal with this, an idea that... Contributes to the anxiety as well. Maybe my body and brain are trying to remind me that regardless of how well I felt last week, I'm not out of the woods yet. Thanks body and brain, but I don't need a reminder... But if you must, Please just leave a sticky-note on the fridge next time.

 

I am able to remind myself that "this too shall pass" and that what I'm feeling is real; that my anxiety driven thoughts and sense of urgency are simply just thoughts. Sometimes what I have to ask myself, "ok, what evidence do I have that what I'm thinking right now... What I believe to be true at this moment... Is true?" Usually, I have no evidence to back up my anxious thoughts. Actually, I almost never do, even when I try really hard to justify my thinking. Right now, as I write this I'm trying to repeat in my head, "this is withdrawal, this is withdrawal, this is withdrawal..." Writing this and trying to think that seems to be helping right now...

"Its funny how the return of symptoms automatically make me wonder if I'll always have to deal with this, an idea that... Contributes to the anxiety as well."

 

That is so common that I consider it another withdrawal symptom. That is, the feeling/thought complex, that it's always been like this and it's always going to be like this, it's never going to be much better, it's pretty much hopeless...

 

I think of it as another symptom of withdrawal, like akathisia or anxiety or suicidality or whatever sorts of things come along.

 

What's interesting to me is the extent to which these drugs and the withdrawal affect not just how our bodies feel but also the thoughts we think, the thoughts we are able to think, the thoughts we are sometimes unable to think. The whole idea that our minds are somehow separate from our bodies and we control our thoughts--I am realizing that may be much more of a delusion, illusion, than we realize. It's strange and unnerving to contemplate, because if I'm not in control of my own thoughts, then what am I in control of? Nothing, really. Scary.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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Bubble-

I guess we can call ourselves experts in deception? It's funny, because I was terrible at pretending to be sick as kid when I didn't want to go to school.

 

Rhi-

It's a little scary to think of these thoughts as delusions, but perhaps that's exactly what they are. Delusions of urgency? The thoughts are so real and when I didn't understand what I was experiencing was withdrawal I didn't question them. In my mind, I had every reason to be anxious and have anxious thoughts... But now that I'm clued in that my thinking can be faulty when I'm feeling anxious, and that it's the withdrawal, not me, I feel less...well...crazy, if that makes sense.

1988-2012: Prozac @ 60mg to treat an eating disorder. Several unsuccessful attempts to discontinue.Fall 2012: Failed attempt to discontinue then -> 40mg Prozac and added 150mg Wellbutrin. Late summer 2013:Began slower Prozac taper.Spring 2014:Got to 10mg Prozac, 75mg of Wellbutrin -April 2014: 9mg Prozac & 37.5mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 9mg Prozac & 25 mg Wellbutrin 2x/day->9mg Prozac 1x/day & ~8mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 8.1mg Prozac, 0 WellbutrinSept '14: 8.1mg Prozac -> crashed hardOct '14: 10mg ProzacNov '14: 20mg -> 30mgDec '14: 30mg, Feb 10: 27mg. Mar 7: 25mg Mar 21, 2015: 20mg. May 21, 2016: 20mg and holding strong. Taper restarted April 2021 to 18mg, July 2021 to 16mg, currently 15mg. 

 

My experience: http://rxisk.org/antidepressant-withdrawal-a-prozac-story/

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"Delusions" is not an appropriate term for our expectations of gradual, consistent recovery and fear when that doesn't happen.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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That is very true, Alto. But I don't think the fear and disappointment are delusional. I was thinking more about some of the thoughts that kick in after the anxiety has kicked in. For me the feeling of anxiety comes before the thoughts... And those thoughts are not based on any evidence, but on fears. Those are the thoughts I might consider delusional.

1988-2012: Prozac @ 60mg to treat an eating disorder. Several unsuccessful attempts to discontinue.Fall 2012: Failed attempt to discontinue then -> 40mg Prozac and added 150mg Wellbutrin. Late summer 2013:Began slower Prozac taper.Spring 2014:Got to 10mg Prozac, 75mg of Wellbutrin -April 2014: 9mg Prozac & 37.5mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 9mg Prozac & 25 mg Wellbutrin 2x/day->9mg Prozac 1x/day & ~8mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 8.1mg Prozac, 0 WellbutrinSept '14: 8.1mg Prozac -> crashed hardOct '14: 10mg ProzacNov '14: 20mg -> 30mgDec '14: 30mg, Feb 10: 27mg. Mar 7: 25mg Mar 21, 2015: 20mg. May 21, 2016: 20mg and holding strong. Taper restarted April 2021 to 18mg, July 2021 to 16mg, currently 15mg. 

 

My experience: http://rxisk.org/antidepressant-withdrawal-a-prozac-story/

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What's interesting to me is the extent to which these drugs and the withdrawal affect not just how our bodies feel but also the thoughts we think, the thoughts we are able to think, the thoughts we are sometimes unable to think. The whole idea that our minds are somehow separate from our bodies and we control our thoughts--I am realizing that may be much more of a delusion, illusion, than we realize. It's strange and unnerving to contemplate, because if I'm not in control of my own thoughts, then what am I in control of? Nothing, really. Scary.

 

Thank you for writing this Rhi, I think its so important that people understand the difference between cognitive or thought based anxiety symptoms and the physiological changes in our nervous system which cause the sensations of arousal and fight/flight, which in turn effect our ability to think rationally.  CBT type therapies are based on the assumption that  all anxiety is thought/behavior based and if we can change our thoughts and behavior, then we can eliminate the sensations (anxiety/depression).

 

......" if we are not in control of our thoughts, we have control over nothing".  But there is something we always have control over.  In each moment we have the ability to let go of our illusions of control and accept reality as it is.  When I manage to do this, it seems to bring instant relief and frees up some energy.... which has to be a good thing.

 

 Delusions of urgency? The thoughts are so real and when I didn't understand what I was experiencing was withdrawal I didn't question them. In my mind, I had every reason to be anxious and have anxious thoughts... But now that I'm clued in that my thinking can be faulty when I'm feeling anxious, and that it's the withdrawal, not me, I feel less...well...crazy, if that makes sense.

 

I've also recently been thinking about this sensation of 'urgency', noticing that when my nervous system is amped up, my thoughts become fast and chaotic and everything takes on a sense or urgency.  Its as if everything which needs doing, needs to be done immediately or there will be dire consequences.  In a way, it makes sense because if our fight/flight system is being triggered, then our survival might depend on moving fast, if we were in true danger.

 

Something else I've noticed since being in withdrawal is how other anxious people, who seem to be operating with a sense of urgency trigger that same response in me.

 

You are learning fast about how withdrawal works, it took me a lot longer to get my head around all this.

 

 

 For me the feeling of anxiety comes before the thoughts... And those thoughts are not based on any evidence, but on fears. Those are the thoughts I might consider delusional.

 

This is true for me also.  I wake with physical sensations of fear.... body flooded with those fight/flight hormones, then the mind kicks in, looking for the cause of the danger, when nothing is found, but the sensations persist, then it seems like the sensations get attached to false beliefs or created problems which give us an illusion of understanding or being able to have some control over the 'threat'.  This all seems to happen in an instant.

 

Its good that we recognize this, I think when this process goes unrecognized, that's when it spirals into a panic attack.  It would be nice if recognizing it actually stopped the original fear sensations.  :) But I think that's when the only real control we have becomes available, by letting go of our need for control, and accepting reality as it is in the moment, it passes with less struggle and conflict.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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Bubble-

I guess we can call ourselves experts in deception? It's funny, because I was terrible at pretending to be sick as kid when I didn't want to go to school.

 

Rhi-

It's a little scary to think of these thoughts as delusions, but perhaps that's exactly what they are. Delusions of urgency? The thoughts are so real and when I didn't understand what I was experiencing was withdrawal I didn't question them. In my mind, I had every reason to be anxious and have anxious thoughts... But now that I'm clued in that my thinking can be faulty when I'm feeling anxious, and that it's the withdrawal, not me, I feel less...well...crazy, if that makes sense.

 

Seems like we're sort of hijacking your thread, but it's an important topic and one I hope will develop into something we can maybe post elsewhere.

 

The phrase "delusions of urgency" really clicks for me. Sometimes I really have to coach myself: everything is okay. Look around. Everything is okay. Everything is okay. But when the WD really kicks in hard (which it rarely does these days) all the self-talk in the world doesn't help.

 

In my case this is combined with lifelong problems with PTSD and HPA axis disruption due to severe abuse in childhood, so that may make it more challenging. But I think the mechanisms (hormonal, neurological) are similar and have a lot of overlap.

 

Also want to chime in with my own "really like and appreciate your posts" too Addax.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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Thank you for the chime, Rhi. It helps to hear that. Writing is soothing for me, and I can get a bit compulsive and/wordy when something jumps starts my interest.

 

And Rhi, I can't fathom of having to deal with the symptoms of withdrawal and the physiological dysregulation and symptoms associated with PTSD. It must have been and still must be an emence battle, but it sounds like it's one your winning.

 

I don't mind the "hijack" one bit, but more people might see it and join in if it had it's own heading.

1988-2012: Prozac @ 60mg to treat an eating disorder. Several unsuccessful attempts to discontinue.Fall 2012: Failed attempt to discontinue then -> 40mg Prozac and added 150mg Wellbutrin. Late summer 2013:Began slower Prozac taper.Spring 2014:Got to 10mg Prozac, 75mg of Wellbutrin -April 2014: 9mg Prozac & 37.5mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 9mg Prozac & 25 mg Wellbutrin 2x/day->9mg Prozac 1x/day & ~8mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 8.1mg Prozac, 0 WellbutrinSept '14: 8.1mg Prozac -> crashed hardOct '14: 10mg ProzacNov '14: 20mg -> 30mgDec '14: 30mg, Feb 10: 27mg. Mar 7: 25mg Mar 21, 2015: 20mg. May 21, 2016: 20mg and holding strong. Taper restarted April 2021 to 18mg, July 2021 to 16mg, currently 15mg. 

 

My experience: http://rxisk.org/antidepressant-withdrawal-a-prozac-story/

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And here it is. Let me know if you want to title this topic something else.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I've been thinking about this discussion.

 

I had used the moniker, "experts in deception." I just re-read it and began wondering why it's possible to deceive others by behaving as if everything is okay; that we are not in the throws of anxiety and that our thinking is logical, but not ourselves. We are thinking things and believe things that are, for all intents and purposes baseless, yet we believe them wholeheartedly and become anxious (or depressed) because of them. The anxiety most often comes from fears, not facts (delusions?). We can be deceptive in that we present as having nothing to fear, yet we cannot deceive ourselves. (We create an illusion of having no delusions?)

 

Or is it the other way around? If we're experience "delusions of urgency", that would mean we are the ones being deceived. Our brains are jerks!

 

I say all that, but for me it seems more like by CNS is the one experiencing delusions. I feel the anxiety physically before there are any thoughts. My body has no evidence, via thoughts or other stimuli, that there is anything to fear, but it's sending out signals that there is something to fear. My body then convinces me that there is indeed something to be anxious about. Fortunately or unfortunately I cannot always identify what that is. Should something walk into my physically anxious path I often use it as something to become anxious about.

 

Ya know, the whole Central nervous system is a great big Jerk!

1988-2012: Prozac @ 60mg to treat an eating disorder. Several unsuccessful attempts to discontinue.Fall 2012: Failed attempt to discontinue then -> 40mg Prozac and added 150mg Wellbutrin. Late summer 2013:Began slower Prozac taper.Spring 2014:Got to 10mg Prozac, 75mg of Wellbutrin -April 2014: 9mg Prozac & 37.5mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 9mg Prozac & 25 mg Wellbutrin 2x/day->9mg Prozac 1x/day & ~8mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 8.1mg Prozac, 0 WellbutrinSept '14: 8.1mg Prozac -> crashed hardOct '14: 10mg ProzacNov '14: 20mg -> 30mgDec '14: 30mg, Feb 10: 27mg. Mar 7: 25mg Mar 21, 2015: 20mg. May 21, 2016: 20mg and holding strong. Taper restarted April 2021 to 18mg, July 2021 to 16mg, currently 15mg. 

 

My experience: http://rxisk.org/antidepressant-withdrawal-a-prozac-story/

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For me, there is often at least a kernel of reality that the fear stems (and explodes) from. I differentiate anxiety from fear with fear being more closely tied to the fight, flight (or freeze) instinct. (That may or may not be accurate)

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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The phrase "delusions of urgency" really clicks for me. Sometimes I really have to coach myself: everything is okay. Look around. Everything is okay. Everything is okay. But when the WD really kicks in hard (which it rarely does these days) all the self-talk in the world doesn't help.

I'm curious Rhi... Or maybe it's more like wondering. You wrote that "...all the self-talk in the world doesn't help"... What do you think it would be like if you told someone what you were thinking? You know, what the thoughts were that were making you anxious. For instance what if you told someone "it's always going to be like this!" And they asked you, "how do you know?" Or, "what proof do you have that it will always be like 'this'?" I mean, as opposed to self-talk/asking yourself... Would it be different if someone else asked as opposed to you asking yourself?

 

Geez... I hope that makes sense.

1988-2012: Prozac @ 60mg to treat an eating disorder. Several unsuccessful attempts to discontinue.Fall 2012: Failed attempt to discontinue then -> 40mg Prozac and added 150mg Wellbutrin. Late summer 2013:Began slower Prozac taper.Spring 2014:Got to 10mg Prozac, 75mg of Wellbutrin -April 2014: 9mg Prozac & 37.5mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 9mg Prozac & 25 mg Wellbutrin 2x/day->9mg Prozac 1x/day & ~8mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 8.1mg Prozac, 0 WellbutrinSept '14: 8.1mg Prozac -> crashed hardOct '14: 10mg ProzacNov '14: 20mg -> 30mgDec '14: 30mg, Feb 10: 27mg. Mar 7: 25mg Mar 21, 2015: 20mg. May 21, 2016: 20mg and holding strong. Taper restarted April 2021 to 18mg, July 2021 to 16mg, currently 15mg. 

 

My experience: http://rxisk.org/antidepressant-withdrawal-a-prozac-story/

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Barbarannamated-

 

The way you differentiate between fear and anxiety is accurate is not inaccurate. It is how you have come to identify and differentiate your experiences.

 

I get what you mean though... I have what some people refer to as an irrational fear. Granted, it's highly unlikely that what I fear will occur, it is not entirely outside of the realm of possibility.

 

I combined fear and anxiety in part because the physiological responses to each are the same for me. I become anxious when I think I won't get a project done. I fear it wonder get it done.

1988-2012: Prozac @ 60mg to treat an eating disorder. Several unsuccessful attempts to discontinue.Fall 2012: Failed attempt to discontinue then -> 40mg Prozac and added 150mg Wellbutrin. Late summer 2013:Began slower Prozac taper.Spring 2014:Got to 10mg Prozac, 75mg of Wellbutrin -April 2014: 9mg Prozac & 37.5mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 9mg Prozac & 25 mg Wellbutrin 2x/day->9mg Prozac 1x/day & ~8mg Wellbutrin 2x/day -> 8.1mg Prozac, 0 WellbutrinSept '14: 8.1mg Prozac -> crashed hardOct '14: 10mg ProzacNov '14: 20mg -> 30mgDec '14: 30mg, Feb 10: 27mg. Mar 7: 25mg Mar 21, 2015: 20mg. May 21, 2016: 20mg and holding strong. Taper restarted April 2021 to 18mg, July 2021 to 16mg, currently 15mg. 

 

My experience: http://rxisk.org/antidepressant-withdrawal-a-prozac-story/

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I think I prefer the term "deception" over "delusion" because it doesn't sound quite as clinical or pathological.

 

Again, I may be wrong. Not too clear today.

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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I have fear reactions which I associate with childhood abuse and anxiety reactions from withdrawal. But one can trigger the other.self talk doesn't work when that happens. They will only listen to each other and the best I can do is hold onto the fact that this will pass.

 

However, when they are not triggering each other, I do think that fear and anxiety need different kinds of self talk particularly when the former is related to past trauma (and I believe that this can be past withdrawal trauma). Fear needs to hear the message that it (the threat) is over, anxiety needs to hear the message that it is not real or unfounded. Telling fear it's unfounded when it is a fight/flight reaction is never going to work. The fight/flight mechanism is designed to bypass our thoughts and take immediate action in the face of danger. It is built NOT to analyse or assess the 'reality' of a threat. But telling it that the potential threat is over is telling your system to stand down. There is a role for that kind of message and I find it helps

 

D

Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

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The phrase "delusions of urgency" really clicks for me. Sometimes I really have to coach myself: everything is okay. Look around. Everything is okay. Everything is okay. But when the WD really kicks in hard (which it rarely does these days) all the self-talk in the world doesn't help.

I'm curious Rhi... Or maybe it's more like wondering. You wrote that "...all the self-talk in the world doesn't help"... What do you think it would be like if you told someone what you were thinking? You know, what the thoughts were that were making you anxious. For instance what if you told someone "it's always going to be like this!" And they asked you, "how do you know?" Or, "what proof do you have that it will always be like 'this'?" I mean, as opposed to self-talk/asking yourself... Would it be different if someone else asked as opposed to you asking yourself?

 

Geez... I hope that makes sense.

 

 

Yes, talking to people outside does help sometimes. It kind of depends on what's going on physiologically. If it's a bad bout of withdrawal, it seems like talking helps for a short time but it doesn't stick for long. But definitely I rely on my friends and sometimes my kids and sometimes this forum for help with this.

 

I've thought about trying to find a therapist to work with, but it's tricky because my case is so complex and I live in a rural area without a very wide range of resources. Plus even just finding a therapist who has seen "behind the curtain" (Wizard of Oz reference) of Big Pharma/Big Psychiatry's lies about how wonderful and needed and useful these drugs are...that alone is daunting. It would sure be nice to have that support though.

 

In general, I'm an extrovert and I do process information better in conversation with others. Just inside my own head, I tend to get stuck and go around in circles.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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I have fear reactions which I associate with childhood abuse and anxiety reactions from withdrawal. But one can trigger the other.self talk doesn't work when that happens. They will only listen to each other and the best I can do is hold onto the fact that this will pass.

 

However, when they are not triggering each other, I do think that fear and anxiety need different kinds of self talk particularly when the former is related to past trauma (and I believe that this can be past withdrawal trauma). Fear needs to hear the message that it (the threat) is over, anxiety needs to hear the message that it is not real or unfounded. Telling fear it's unfounded when it is a fight/flight reaction is never going to work. The fight/flight mechanism is designed to bypass our thoughts and take immediate action in the face of danger. It is built NOT to analyse or assess the 'reality' of a threat. But telling it that the potential threat is over is telling your system to stand down. There is a role for that kind of message and I find it helps

 

D

 

Brilliant! Thank you. I had stumbled across the helpfulness of the "it's over" message when triggered by abuse/PTSD stuff. (And I know that I, at least, have pretty nasty PTSD from previous severe withdrawal experiences--found that out last weekend when that d*ck of a doctor decided not to refill my Valium. I went into a huge triggered tailspin on that. It was crazy and intense.)

 

But I hadn't really teased out the distinction between that and the more generalized anxiety, and the slightly different tack to take with that.

 

I'll be playing with that. Thank you.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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  • 1 month later...

 

Grrrr....

 

I went a week with almost no wd symptoms.Then, as I wrote, I began to feel it's onset Monday morning. It subsided by late afternoon, but I've had it every morning since, along with some mild body tension and jaw pressure as well as some difficulty being able to sit sill or focused on something like reading. . The anxiety causes me to feel easily overwhelmed by tasks I need to complete for work, and I end up putting them off. Except for Monday the symptoms dissipate by early afternoon, but this week it's left me too tired really be able to get done in the afternoon what I didn't get done in the morning. I'm lucky in that, although uncomfortable and disheartening, they are for the most part tolerable. I'm an expert at hiding my symptoms and appearing as if nothing is going on... That being said, if I weren't working at home right now, I don't know if that would be the case. The anxiety does make my work difficult, so that's probably adding to the anxiety... Creating a stupid loop.

 

Its funny how the return of symptoms automatically make me wonder if I'll always have to deal with this, an idea that... Contributes to the anxiety as well. Maybe my body and brain are trying to remind me that regardless of how well I felt last week, I'm not out of the woods yet. Thanks body and brain, but I don't need a reminder... But if you must, Please just leave a sticky-note on the fridge next time.

 

I am able to remind myself that "this too shall pass" and that what I'm feeling is real; that my anxiety driven thoughts and sense of urgency are simply just thoughts. Sometimes what I have to ask myself, "ok, what evidence do I have that what I'm thinking right now... What I believe to be true at this moment... Is true?" Usually, I have no evidence to back up my anxious thoughts. Actually, I almost never do, even when I try really hard to justify my thinking. Right now, as I write this I'm trying to repeat in my head, "this is withdrawal, this is withdrawal, this is withdrawal..." Writing this and trying to think that seems to be helping right now...

"Its funny how the return of symptoms automatically make me wonder if I'll always have to deal with this, an idea that... Contributes to the anxiety as well."

 

That is so common that I consider it another withdrawal symptom. That is, the feeling/thought complex, that it's always been like this and it's always going to be like this, it's never going to be much better, it's pretty much hopeless...

 

I think of it as another symptom of withdrawal, like akathisia or anxiety or suicidality or whatever sorts of things come along.

 

What's interesting to me is the extent to which these drugs and the withdrawal affect not just how our bodies feel but also the thoughts we think, the thoughts we are able to think, the thoughts we are sometimes unable to think. The whole idea that our minds are somehow separate from our bodies and we control our thoughts--I am realizing that may be much more of a delusion, illusion, than we realize. It's strange and unnerving to contemplate, because if I'm not in control of my own thoughts, then what am I in control of? Nothing, really. Scary.

 

Such a good reminder when I stop working my part of recovery - ie the mindfulness, slowwwww taper, 12 steps, etc. It is weird - the symptoms no matter how small at times, may escalate if I focus on them too much and freak myself out. Sometimes they are a snowball warning I have made an error or my taper is too fast or I have taken the rx at the wrong time etc. 

 

Nothing is gained by flipping out and ruminating as I am prone to do - these symptoms have left ptsd of sorts when it comes to wd whereby I have doubted myself. So a slow mindful taper is something I must do and remind myself I am doing it differently this time and I can more quickly hop on a change  more easily instead of prolonged suffering as with CT damage control. 

 

The panic attacks are the one thing that toss me back into the fear thinking. 

 

Thanks for this topic!!!!!!!

I'M A WEANER!  :D 
atavan PRN ,Paxil approx 20 yrs ago for major depression
Switched to Klonopin PRN through to current
Paxil wore out
Changed to Effexor 
Depakote added
enormous weight gain - flat affect - led to depression - dropped depakote
Dropped Effexor, changed to Paxil 
PDoc added mixed salts amphetamines for ADHD - took for 2 yrs - was ok at first but had to cut as symptoms too intense -  then the crash was too much. STOPPED
Vyvanse started in 2013 (APRIL) - more smooth than IR amphetamine tabs---Have not used vyvanse daily in full amt since May 2013 

Paxil CT withdrawal 10/2012  :wacko:  Klonopin CT WD

Switched Klonopin to Xanax prn  - too strong

WD CT from XANAX after taking for a while - it was awful but can be done if you hold on!

Back to Klonopin PRN - working very hard to avoid taking it at all. 

Effexor 37.5 started 02/2013, 75mg by 03/2013, 150mg by 05/2012 (approx)  :blush:

Effexor 150mg 3/10/2014 Microtaper -3beads  :unsure:

3/11/2014-4beads ,3/12/14 - 5, 3/13/14 -6, 3/15/14 - 7, 3/18 - 8, 3/22 - 10, 3/24 - 12, 4/6 - 13, 4/7 - 14, 4/11 - 16 - on 4/19 ran out of brand took generic. Bad move. Back on brand on 4/20 and updosed 2 beads. 5/1 - 15, 5/6 - 16, 5/9 -17, 55/10 -17, 5/15 -18, 5/21 -19, 5/24 -20, 6/3 - 21, 6/6 -23, 6/13 -24,6/19- 25, 6/21 -26, 6/25 -27

6/28 -28, 6/29 -30, 7/3 -34, 7/8 -35, 7/17 -36, 7/30 -41,7/31 -42, 8/2 -43, 8/3 -44, 8/5 -45, 8/14 -48, 8/26-50, 9/24 -53, 10/24 -55, 12/1 -57, (lost the tally sheet, thus taper info for some of it), 4/19-63, 4/26-64, 4/30-65 Switched to wt reduction - now @ -.068, 7/14 -.070, August 2015 -.074, between Sept & October 10 -.077, Nov. -.078(feeling great), -.090 as of 1/10/16, down to  -.101 since January 2016 (it is now 6/24/16), -.105 as of 8/13/16
 
 

Ladies, please don't underestimate the possibility of perimenopause. The symptoms can be similar to, may intensify & in some cases mimic protracted w/d from ssri's & benzo's. 

 

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Recovering from Psychiatry- Tips and Some Hope For Those in Psychiatric Drug Withdrawal 

Published on May 27, 2014

This video offers tips, suggestions, and hope for those in psychiatric drug withdrawal from ex-"Bipolar" patient and psychiatric liberation writer and activist, Laura Delano.

 

When making this video, Laura had been free from drugs for 4 years.  She talks about her experiences in early withdrawal and how it has changed over time.

 

Her youtube channel can be found here, where there are other related videos.

 

 

 

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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Please note that Laura offers her support services for a fee.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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This is the hardest question I battle. How long? And I ruminate. Not helpful. Im trying to lean to stop this.

2005-Zoloft bad reaction.....2006-Lexepro......2012-Upped Lexepro.......2013-Upped Lexepro......2/2014- Attempted Taper Lexepro...2/2014- Updosed Lexepro.......3/2014-Ativan.....5/2014- CT switch from Lexpro to Effexor.....

5/2014-7/2014-Tapered Ativan from 1mg to .25mg.....6/2014-Bad reaction to Effexor........7/2014- Rapid taper Effexor every other day......7/5/2014- Off Effexor.......7/2014-12/2014 - Ativan .25mg.......12/25/2014 -Taper Ativan by 4% due to paradoxical reaction .24mg...11/18/2015-Taper Ativan 1% CURRENTLY ON: .2376mg Ativan taken in 6 .0396mg doses.

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I am almost 2 and a half yrs off Effexor.

I have seen important improvement in some areas, but still struggling with awful waves and lingering issues like scary broken sleep(I  haven't sleep for more than 2 hrs in a row for 2 1/2 yrs now....sexual disfunction...anxiety.

I need some reassurance and hope.

Do people heal from this evil drug???

4 years aprox. on 150mgs.Effexor for situational major depression.No AD before.
Tapered 150-0mgs in 3 months.

Tapered Quetiapine,Xanax in the last 18 months.NO med of any kind anymore.
First 3 months off acute w/d
Protracted w/d ever since.
Symptoms:Anxiety,anhedonia,insomnia,tinnitus,PSSD

04/13/2014 Awful Relapse.Recovered fairly fast.

3 years and 4 months off.

waves and windows.Very much recovered.

November 2015,health issue.Setback.
 

 

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Yes, you CAN DO it.

After 28 months off, well done, you have come most of the way. !!!!!! :) :)

 

I am still healing, went off effexor over 2 years ago. Failure, went on zoloft, lots lots of other drugs.

Have tapered off these other drugs, then did a dive after 4 months, not as bad as the Effexor dive.

 

I feel for you. Hang in there. I am in awe of the others on this site, so damn strong, give me so much hope.

 

I am sure a lot of my wd are from both the efexor and the zoloft, and maybe the other stuff. I have not taken Effexor for over 2 years.

 

Today is a good day, I am about to go for a walk. I forgive myself the lack of motivation to even brush my teeth.

 

Effexor is the true drug from hell. I think they all are evil.

 

I decided to go off effexor, as I was told to take tablets for high blood pressure, and methdone, for drinking too much. That would have been about 8 drugs, nah.... Nah, Now I look at the great signs.

 

I dont drink too much anymore, seem to be hungry instead. Brain is alert, it can be hard getting back your brain, guilt is bad.

 

I am actually starting to get hungry in a proper pattern, the correct times (used to eat nothing, then gorge soon after my effexor dose).....I can now handle money again, starting to clean, and do dishes, and look after my son (17).

 

so focus on those small little miracles, look at the good signs, no matter how small. You can miss them sometimes. Like the fact I went out of the house yesterday, and can again today. Good luck! Keep focussed on what you want in the future. I have goals now.... I know I will get there, that is a wonderful day for me.

1992 Dothiepin 375mg 8 weeks, exhaustion/depression.  Serotonin syndrome, oh yes!  seizures . Fell pregnant, 3rd baby, Nitrous Oxide, 3 weeks mental hospital pp psychosis. zoloft tegretol.

Feb 1996 ct tegretol, tapered Zoloft 8 weeks. as (unexpectedly)  pregnant. Steven died after 3 days.(Zolft HLHS baby).  98 had run in with Paxil, 2 tablets, 3 weeks taper, survived.
2005..menopause? exhausted again. Zyprexa, mad in three days, fallout....  Seroquel, Effexor, tegretol,   and 8 years of self destruction. Failed taper.
Damn 1/4 valium... nuts again! .fallout, zoloft 100mg  seroquol 400mg mirtazapine 45 mg  tegretol 400mg.  Mid 14 3 month taper. Nov 14 CRASH.
Mid 15 ....   75mg  seroquel,  3 x 1800mg SJW  2 week window end of December followed by 6 week wave
5/2 68mg seroquel, 2.5 x 1800mg SJW::::20/2 61mg seroquel, 2.5 x  SJW::: 26/2 54mg seroquel, 2 x SJW::::21/3 43mg seroquel, 1 x 2700SJW :::: 23/4 36mg seroquel 1 x 1800 SJW
15/5 33mg seroquel, 1 x SJW::::   28/5 30mg seroquel, 1 x SJW::::;  18/6 25mg seroquel 1/2 SJW::::, 11/7 21mg seroquel 1/2 SJW::, 26/7 18mg seroquel 1/2 SJW:::, 9/8 12mg seroquel :::, 16/8 6mg seroquel ;;;;, 12/9 0 jump.

23/9  3mg.....,  27/9 0mg.  Reinstated, 6mg, then 12mg.............  LIGHTBULB MOMENT,  I have  MTHFR 2x mutations.  CFS and issues with MOULD in my home. So I left home, and working 150km away during week, loving it.

Oh was hard, panic attacks first week, gone now, along with the mould issues.

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