Crazyperson reinstating Paxil after severe withdrawal

[Crazyperson]

Hello

I know this is an old topic, but I heard something today and it scared the crap out of me. I was listening to a podcast and a person mentioned that sometimes, ssri stop working because the body adapts to the extra serotonin and stops absorbing it. She called this ``downregulating serotonin receptors``. I did a quick search and ended up on your forum. So I’m posting this.

 

My story seems to be the story of many here.

I took paxil many years for anxiety, trying to reduce when I felt better with bad results. Then I started tapering off slowly in 2012 to finally stop on January 5th 2013. After 3 weeks off it, I experienced what my doctor called ``rebound anxiety`` and possibly severe withdrawal. But I didn’t start taking the drug again, thinking that like some anxiety outbursts, it would eventually subside. It didn’t. Just got worst. So I caved after about 2 months and started again, thinking it’d be ok if I just started at the dose I was right before I quit. It didn’t work. My doctor thinks that it’s my anxiety that came back with a vengeance and she’s probably not wrong, but even if I have been on a dose of 30mg for over a year now, I’m still not back to my old self. I have frequent palpitations, tremors, tingling, sweats, insomnia, and most of all, fear that I will never be ok again.

I know that some of these feelings are anxiety but some are just popping out of the blue, with no apparent cause. My doctor, other doctors and even psychiatrists, all have told me that there is a possibility that the paxil is not working as it was because I had such a severe relapse and also because sometimes, ssri`s have a different effect when stopped and reinstated. They suggest I be patient, get on a higher dose, switch to another med or try some combos with low doses of antipsychotics.

However, I think the paxil IS working a bit, since I do have some improvement in my overall wellbeing. But it’s not what I would say ``normal`` or like before I stopped, which is all I want. Is it wise to crank it up a notch, go up to 40mg? Is there hope I’ll eventually be normal again?

 

Reading this on your site made my symptoms worse.

 

Sometimes reinstatement does not work. The nervous system has taken such a hard hit from withdrawal, it's destabilized beyond whatever effect the drug might have had.

 

I am now terrified.

I have days when I’m totally fine, but most of the time I’m not and it’s frustrating and scary in itself. My doctor and therapist tell me to tolerate the symptoms, to learn to not be afraid of them and I will be ok.

But am I? Obviously reading that I may NOT be ok after all, that I did destroy my brain somehow when I stopped the paxil is causing me to feel anxious. So I know that I am really suffering from anxiety.

But I am also afraid that there is more to it, that somehow I’m broken. The psychiatrist I saw recently who suggested I take more paxil seems to think that since I had a big relapse and that symptoms come out of nowhere sometimes, I have a biological problem that is beyond what therapy can help. But that my fear of symptoms maintains the symptoms themselves.

 

That makes sense. I know that. But I just want normal again.

It's impossible to tell if what I feel is due to anxiety itself or some permanent effect widrwal may have produced.

Please tell me there is hope… I know you guys are not doctors but you do resonate with my own experience. My doctor is a great person but I'm afraid she doesn't know how to help me anymore and that no one can.

 

What can I do? What will fix me?

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Crazyperson.

 

It does sound like you had severe withdrawal and reinstatement helped a little but not a lot.

 

You are having waves and windows of symptoms. This is typical of a nervous system healing from a big shock such as Paxil withdrawal. See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/82-the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-recovery/ and http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/603-what-is-antidepressant-withdrawal-syndrome/

 

Do your symptoms have any daily pattern? It helps to keep notes on paper.

 

Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/
 

[Crazyperson]

Hello and thanks for the fast reply.
I do recognize myself as having waves in the posts but that doesn't solve things. Ok, I'm in a process of getting better, I agree, but will it happen? Is it wise to get to a higher dose for at least a while, just to be myself again, or should I keep at this dosage for longer until the "better" parts are more frequent?

There is no real pattern; I feel better for a few days then I feel bad for a few days. Sometimes the bad spells are provoked by an event, a stressor, but not always.
I felt terrible last week, thinking I may be bipolar, but I felt a lot better this weekend. Reading here that antidepressants may never work again made my symptoms flare up. Like I said, I DO have an anxiety issue, drugs or not.
I take omega3 everyday. I did take magnesium a while but I feared it made my palpitations worse.
So am I going to be fine after all? I made peace with taking drugs for the rest of my life after the fiasco last year. But I do want them to work. And they are not working like they did.
I know you advocate complete elimination of the drugs but I think I can't quit, at least for a while.
On the other hand I don't know what is a side effect of the drug, what is anxiety and what is leftover withdrawal symptoms. I never had side effects from Paxil before I quit. I just had a bit of trouble with my weight. Now I don't know what's what. Could it be new side effects? Is that even possible after years of taking it?
Like I said I do feel better, just not enough. Sometimes I get palpitations and tingling so severe that I feel I'm about to die.
Other times I feel like nothing was ever wrong with me. That is rare but still is an improvement from last year.
So yeah. I'm confused.

[Altostrata]

What is your daily symptom pattern? It may also help to track your symptom pattern over the months.

 

No one can tell the future. In withdrawal syndrome, what we see is a pattern of very gradual improvement. It's a good sign you've seen some of this so far.

 

After severe withdrawal, a different reaction to the same drug is not unusual. Your nervous system may have become sensitized to the drug and other drugs.

 

It could take a very long time for your nervous system to settle down. Please take your Paxil at the same time every day. Yes, you could be having side effects, your daily symptom pattern can help pin this down.

[Crazyperson]

Hi again.
I have been doing this, tracking my symptoms, against my therapist's advice, as according to her, it makes me focus on the bad stuff rather than the good.

She says that I have symptoms but I know them by heart, so stop focussing on that and live my life. That does seem to help a little, to make hard times more bearable.

She told me to practice mindfulness, accepting the bad stuff but not focussing on it.

I have a calendar where I track my days; good with few symptoms, bad with many symptoms. I cannot see a pattern with what I eat or do or with my menstrual cycle.

It's random.

When it's not, it's because I revived a fear, like the fear the meds won't work and I'm stuck like this for ever, after reading some stuff here.

I have had that in the past, before stopping the drug, so I know it's the anxiety. But like you say, I'm highly sensitive now and little things can upset my system into the old fight or flight thing.

Sometimes, the bad days will come from nowhere, no event.

I do feel worst in the morning when I wake up, and sometimes I'm scared I won't sleep so at bed time it can be bad too. 

I know my fears play a large part in my condition. But I think it's not the only thing. It feels like it can't be.

 

 

[Altostrata]

No, what I mean is how do your symptoms change throughout the day. Do some things happen in the morning and others in the evening? When do you take your medications? Are you taking anything else but Paxil?

[Crazyperson]

Ok, well, I have been prescribe seroquel to " boost " the Paxil and it does make me sleepy but when I'm really feeling bad, all it does is make my body slow. My heart still pounds hard for no reason and I still get cold sweats. I don't take it all the time. Most times I take only half a 25mg pill at night.

I takes Paxil in the morning with omega 3s. At night I take omega 3 again and some folic acid.

The morning and nights are worst when the symptoms do not fallow an event that make me anxious. If it's an event, the symptoms will be quasi instanteneous. If it's just random, they settle in gradually. Sometimes I feel a bit of symptoms and they go away little by little. Other times they will gradually increase.

 

What I want to l know is what is the solution? If I am having leftover withdrawal despite reinstating the drug, what should I do? Do I wait and ride it out? What's to be done, if anything? I feel like there is nothing to fix this but accept the crappy days and appreciate the good ones.

What is the answer? Am I going to be this way for ever? I can accept having anxiety return once in a while like it did before I quit, fallowing stressful events. Not this almost daily struggle. This life of never knowing what day is going to be good and what day is going to be bad is getting tiresome.

Thanks again for your quick reply.

[Altostrata]

Please keep notes on paper about your symptoms throughout the day.

 

Why are you taking folic acid? And why at night?

 

When you take Seroquel your heart pounds? If this is so, I would not take Seroquel.

[Crazyperson]

Damn you're fast!

I take folic acid because I wanted to try to get pregnant. Now with all this is not the time I know but I want to be putting all the chances on my side if I do get well again.

The seroquel does not make my heart pound. What I ment is when I have severe symptoms, taking it doesn't make them go away. It used to be that if I felt bad, I took it and fell right to sleep. Since last year, it's hit and miss. 

My therapis and doctor have specifically told me to not note my symptoms through the day. I do it anyways, but only when I feel bad. This morning woke up with tinlging on the left, in my neck and base of my skull. I have a pounding heart sometimes too. I get pains on my upper chest and my upper back, always on the left. Today, the thingling was worst when I found this site and read through it. I went #2 four times. My hands shake sometimes and I have trouble concentrating on anything other than my symptoms when they are bad. 

Yesterday I felt great in the evening. Like all was well. In the morning I felt a bit wierd but it passed. 

I don't know what to tell you other than some days it's better, some days it's worst.

When it's worst, I notice eveything at every second, always the same symptomes tough. 

Pounding heart, thingling and cramping on the upper left body and the back of my tongue, shaking hands, jelly legs, hot and cold flashes, worry and fear, difficulty thinking about something other than my symptoms, frequent bowel movements, feeling of tightgness in the lower abdomen, twitches of the limbs and insomnia. That's pretty much the routine when it's bad. I have had all these before I quite the paxil, but like I said, it was short lived, a few days, and would go away. 
 

 

So what's the deal? What can I do? 
Any solutions available? 

[Altostrata]

To help us out, see these instructions Please put your withdrawal history in your signature

 

Do you have a pattern of symptoms after you take Paxil in the morning?

 

Folic acid can be stimulating. If I were you, I would not take it at night.

[Crazyperson]

My therapis told me not to post here anymore. I'm terrified there is no answer.

she said this type of site only feeds my fears.

[Altostrata]

You'll have to decide whether to do what your therapist says or not.

 

There is no definite answer for withdrawal syndrome. Time does the healing. However, you can do some small things to lessen symptoms. You need to find strength and patience to take care of yourself.

 

If you decide to continue here, I would appreciate your reading carefully and answering questions I or the mods post for you. We are asking because we need to know in order to suggest what to do next. Speaking for myself, my time is limited and I don't like having to ask the same question over and over.

[Crazyperson]

Hi

I tought I did answer your questions. Sorry if it was not precise enough

I don't notice a pattern, no.

This morning I woke up from a bad night. Hot and cold flashes, burning and thingling in my whole body, then it subsides and the remaining symptoms are tingling/ burning in my tongue , in my chest and the back of my head. Also a fear that I'm stuck feeling like this for ever.

 

Is there a reason that the reinstating of Paxil is not taking a full effect? Is it a matter of time or dosage? I just want to be ok again, be it with Paxil if it must be that way.

 

How can I have withdrawal when the drug is in my system again? I have read the section about how sometimes the reinstating needs more time or a different dosage. Doctors also told me it's common that after stopping and restarting, the body may react differently. This is all very vague and all I want are solutions.

I don't mean to seem bossy. I'm really scared that I destroyed my system for good.

I go to work but feel unproductive. I have a hard time thinking about anything other than what I feel. This is not normal. What can I do? Is there hope? I read though posts here and most people seem to have similar stories or at least similar symptoms. But doe it ever go away? I just want to be me again.

[Jemima]

The brain has a remarkable ability to heal itself so chances are that you will fully recover. But please be aware that this is going to take a long time, probably several years. Anxiety and thinking that you'll never get better is a withdrawal symptom in itself, so try to keep that in mind.

 

I don't know why Paxil isn't working for you any more, but it doesn't make sense to me to take more of something that isn't working. Your nervous system has become sensitized to SSRI-type antidepressants so it's likely that other, similar drugs won't work very well either. Withdrawal is often something that just has to be endured with a great deal of patience. There are many non-drug methods of feeling better posted in our 'Symptoms and self-care' discussion, so I suggest giving that section a good, long read.

 

Paxil is a very difficult drug to discontinue,and 30 mg. is a higher than usual dose.  I suggest doing the best you can to stabilize where you are for now. Tapering off of it eventually and getting counseling for your anxiety issues seems like a good way to go for the future.

[Crazyperson]

Hello
I appreciate the reply.
I actually am better at 30mg than I was. That is why several doctor told me that perhaps 40mg would be good. I AM responding to the drug, just not as much.
I was told by one that it happens that the dosage needs to be higher after quitting if symptoms persist. I'm not really happy about that for sure. But I do want to feel normal again. I'm better than before, but I do have days where it's harder and my symptoms flare up.
I need this to stop.

[Rhiannon]

I know that for me, when I first started taking psych meds I responded pretty much as expected. But over time I found I was actually getting sicker and sicker and becoming more and more socially and vocationally disabled. (Well, I actually didn't even see it at the time, but that's another story).

 

Anyway, basically, it's pretty common for people to do okay with short term use of psych meds but to do poorly over the long term; that seems to be a fairly typical situation. The drugs can actually end up worsening or causing the problems they are supposed to fix. (Anxiety's a common one.)

 

After a while I reached a point where adding and removing drugs didn't help, it just made things worse or brought a whole new slew of side effects.

 

I am now extremely sensitive to even tiny tiny changes in dose of, apparently, any kind of neurotransmitter-altering drug. I meet a lot of people here who have found the same thing to happen to them.

 

The book Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker discusses this phenomenon at length, as well as explaining why doctors, therapists and psychiatrists mostly don't seem to know that these drugs can be pretty problematic over the long term.

 

So basically I guess what I'm saying is, it's possible that your body is not going to react to Paxil or any other psych drug the way it's "supposed" to, given your history.

 

You may want to consider learning more about these drugs and what happens over the long term with them (the book above is a good place to start) and listening to your own body and becoming your own guru.

 

It's possible that what doctors and therapists and psychiatrists know about these drugs is not going to include the information that you need, now.

[Altostrata]

When it comes to these drugs, more is not necessarily better, particularly if you've become sensitized by withdrawal.

[Addax]

Hi Crazyperson... I'm just another member stopping by to chime in.

 

I understand your urgency in getting the symptoms to subside and to feel normal. Unfortunately there is very little that is "normal" in the withdrawal process. Symptoms flare-up then subside, flare-up then subside... Hence the reference to windows and waves you see throughout the posts and threads in this website. From what I gather from my own experience, reading the experience of others and the advice and guidance offered me since I've been here, this pattern does not subside quickly and can be pretty reaching at times. The symptoms can be mediated and/or minimized to some degree using the methods promoted here by SA, and the fluxuation between waves and windows will become less dramatic over time and recovery will happen. But it all takes time, lots of patience and perseverance, and a willingness to be open to the guidance from the administrators and moderators here.

 

Read, learn, rant, and yell here, and listen to what both your body and the admins tell you, and you'll get through this.

[Crazyperson]

This is the last time I'll post something.
I reinstated and my dosage is higher now than ever. 
However, I feel normal again and I plan not to quit ever again. So what if I need a drug to feel normal? It's not like it's affecting my judgement or my personality. In fact, I finally feel like myself again. 
So don't despair. I know this site is about quitting and getting rid of the drug, but maybe some of us need it. 

I know now that I do. 

I'm glad it finally worked and that I have my life back. 

Maybe the drugs aren't what's wrong. Maybe our bodies are wrong. It's not repressed memories, nor bad nutrition sometimes. It's just weird chemistry. Like a thyroid problem or diabetes. 

35mg of paxil daily

Better than ever. Still get some symptoms now and then but I can handle them.

Good bye! I'm off to live my life.