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Hopeful

Occasional neuromuscular symptoms: Tics, twitches, fasciculations, spasms, cramps, restless legs

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Hopeful

This article was taken from the blog:

 

http://willspirit.com/

 

Body Armor (May 27, 2011)

 

My apologies, everyone. This post is far afield from my usual topics. It was written for my acupuncture website. The piece discusses muscle tension, the most common problem I see in my practice. As we all know, muscle tension often results from (and contributes to) emotional stress.... One of the greatest failings of Western Psychiatry is its treatment of the mind in isolation, divorced from both body and soul. By bringing bodily symptoms into the mix, and especially when we encourage the soul’s development, we approach truly holistic mental health care....

 

Muscle tension affects most of us. For some, it’s an occasional problem. For others, the pain and stiffness of tight, sore muscles cause discomfort almost every day unless preventive measures are taken. A later article will review stretching exercises to help reduce tension, but this one will discuss how acupuncture helps reduce muscle soreness and spasm.

 

....Having spent many years learning Western biomedicine, I find understanding muscle tension scientifically quite easy and comfortable. My more recent education in Chinese medicine has challenged me to expand beyond the limited, material perspectives of my conventional training. But both views are useful and valuable in patient care.

 

In Western terms, tight muscles get locked into vicious cycles. Emotional stress, poor posture, repetitive activities, and trauma prompt the nervous system to stimulate muscle contraction. At an early stage, conscious attention to reducing these tensing signals may be enough to relax tight muscles.

 

However, if tension persists, the muscle enters a state of spasm. High tissue pressure within tight muscle bands restricts capillary blood flow. With compromised circulation, a muscle’s oxygen supply gets depleted, so its cells cannot maintain proper ion balance. Calcium accumulates in the muscle fibers, and stimulates worsening contraction and spasm.

 

A vicious cycle occurs when spasm further increases tissue pressure, which worsens the circulatory compromise. Oxygen becomes even more depleted, more calcium accumulates, and the muscle grows ever tighter. Contracted muscle bands become self-perpetuating as a result. The affected areas no longer relax, even if neural stimuli for contraction cease.

 

At the same time, the pain of tight muscles causes reflex neural commands to increase tension, which is the body’s way of guarding damaged areas. And although the muscles no longer relax in the absence of nerve stimuli, the spasms worsen in their presence. A second vicious cycle gets established, whereby tension leads to pain, which causes more tension.

 

In the Western view, acupuncture creates tiny lesions in muscles, which stimulate blood flow. The improved capillary blood supply brings in oxygen and removes waste, so proper calcium distribution gets restored. The muscle regains its ability to relax.

 

At the same time, acupuncture reduces the cycle of tension-pain-tension. One of the best-documented effects of needling is the reduction of pain signals. With less pain, there is less reflexive stimulation of contraction. The muscle releases...

 

You can finish reading this artice at: http://willspirit.com/

Edited by Hopeful
to delete a portion of the article for the spirit of the doctrine of fair use

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Hopeful

This article was taken from the blog:

 

http://willspirit.com/

 

Body Armor (May 27, 2011)

 

 

However, if tension persists, the muscle enters a state of spasm. High tissue pressure within tight muscle bands restricts capillary blood flow. With compromised circulation, a muscle’s oxygen supply gets depleted, so its cells cannot maintain proper ion balance. Calcium accumulates in the muscle fibers, and stimulates worsening contraction and spasm.

 

A vicious cycle occurs when spasm further increases tissue pressure, which worsens the circulatory compromise. Oxygen becomes even more depleted, more calcium accumulates, and the muscle grows ever tighter. Contracted muscle bands become self-perpetuating as a result. The affected areas no longer relax, even if neural stimuli for contraction cease.

 

 

I recently started taking a calcium/magnesium/D3 liquid (the dose calls for 2 tablespoons and I'm only taking 1 teaspoon per day) I haven't been able to tolerate a D vitamin, but this so far hasn't bothered me. I wonder if this is not a good idea after reading the above article regarding the calcium and muscle tension...muscle tension is one of my residuals.

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Altostrata

Hopeful, have you been feeling better or worse since taking the supplement?

 

I believe the muscle tension depends on a balance involving calcium and magnesium. If you're low in calcium, this can also cause aches and pains. It's individual, a calcium supplement might help one person and not another.

 

Also, moving around helps remove the accumulated calcium from muscles. As the article says, it's partially a circulation problem.

 

I've had acupuncture for aches, pains, and muscle tension and found it very helpful.

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angie007

Is accupuncture safe in early wd??

as this is something i suffer with too, mainly left shoulder

and arm,and lower back pain, im a bit scared to take anything that

may ramp up wd symptoms this early on, a sin suppliments etc, after my

awful experience with magnesium citrate.

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Hopeful

Angie,

 

I had acupuncture for the first time at about the 1 1/2 year mark and then again recently. Hopefully someone that had it earlier in w/d will chime in and let you know.

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Healing

Very interesting essay, Hopeful. Makes me want to run out and get some acupuncture – I have all the characteristics of a Liverish personality!

 

Yeah, the issue of calcium and muscles must be complicated, because calcium is also recommended for muscle cramps. Why not give it a try. See how you feel.

 

 

Angie -- I think it's fine to try acupuncture in early w/d, but the key thing is to tell the practitioner that s/he must not do *anything* stimulating. Nothing. Even if it's something that s/he usually does that leads to calming.

 

I had acupuncture during the taper and early post-taper. I don't think it did much for me. I don't think the practitioner and I understood what was needed. But it certainly didn't hurt, and I felt maybe more relaxed after some of the sessions, temporarily.

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Hopeful

 

– I have all the characteristics of a Liverish personality!

 

 

Unfortunately, so do I :(

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Healing

It's alright, Hopeful. We just need to find the right canvas for our gifts. Then, irritable frustration and muscle tension :angry: will turn into a blazing passion! :excl:*:excl:*:excl:

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Hopeful

It's alright, Hopeful. We just need to find the right canvas for our gifts. Then, irritable frustration and muscle tension :angry: will turn into a blazing passion! :excl:*:excl:*:excl:

 

 

Great positive way to look at it H, thanks! :D

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Barbarannamated

Vaseadude,

 

I'm not an expert in this area and struggling to figure out my own situation. However, i believe that, in most cases, it's best to allow the body to naturally find its new normal thru a slow taper. Adding any new substances risks further imbalance to the entire system, similar to adding new psychotropics to offset the effects of the previous drug or of withdrawal. We don't know if the changes caused by drugs are permanent or temporary adaptations that will reverse.

 

There are some suggestions in Symptoms about lowering cortisol. I believe it's well established that SSRIs effect cortisol production although I'm not certain of the mechanism. Cortisol (related to adrenaline) is a POWERFUL hormone.

 

I do take estrogen and thyroid drugs for conditions that were present many years ago.

 

This is just my opinion as of today. Subject to change with more information ;)

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JustineMiller

About three weeks after I tapered Mirtazapine from 15 to 7.5; I woke up one morning with my neck/shoulder in such a severe cramp I could not move. I had to have assistance for about 48 hours. at the time I attributed it to just completing 2 weeks of a yoga teacher training in the mountains without drinking enough water.

 

about 7 weeks ago I my hip cramped while lifting a heavy weight in the wrong manner. I was in bed for a week, could not move at all for about 2 days. attributed it to pulling weeds incorrectly while angry, but in fact I had dropped my Mirt dose from 7.5 to 3.75 and back to 7.5 for 1 day a few weeks previously.

 

I dropped my Mirt dose from 7.5 to 3.75 about 2 weeks ago. yesterday while moving a railroad tie my hip cramped up again and was flat all day and so far today as well.

 

I looked up MIrt WD on Internet again this morning and found a few mentions of "back pain, joint pain, muscle pain".

 

Since I am a dancer I have had various problems my whole life, but nothing like these 3 episodes, ever, since I have been on Mirt. Normally I am extremely flexible and strong and can do lots of things my close in age sister, for example, can't. Anyway, I would love to hear from other people on this topic.

Thanks, JM

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Rhiannon

I don't know how much is age and how much is something else, but right from the beginning of my withdrawal process I've noticed changes in my connective tissue and a definite increase in how sore my muscles get when I overwork (or even just work) them. And I seem to get injuries more easily, and they take longer to heal.

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Nikki

When I was tapering Lexapro I used to get that. The best remedy for me was to lie down with a comforter and let the heat from the blanket draw the pain from my legs - ankles - and feet.

 

Worked like a charm....

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areyouthere

I experience muscle soreness & cramping when tapering my AD. I use a myofacial release roller to relieve / release the muscles that are tensing up. There are you tube vids that explain how to do this.

 

In addition to that I use heat , drink LOTS of water and make sure that I keep my muscles, especially the long muscles, stretched by using the roller & heat . Easy does it.

 

I would think prevention is worth an ounce cure here. You may not be able to avoid the increase in tension but you can alleviate it safely. It does go away with the cycles of taper.

 

RU

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Trying

I,am now 3 months of and having bad nerve and muscle pain,

Also my knees hurt bad from time to time....

 

The nerve pain, stinging feeling is mostly in my lower legs,

The muscle pain in upper legs.

 

Sometime,s i also have this tingeling feeling in my face, chin area...

 

Is there some one else with these symptoms?

 

X

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Trying

I already take magnesium 800 mg before bed, and vit C 3000 .

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Temperance

Greetings

 

Sorry to hear of your muscle & nerve pain. I have it very much. I don't know if it's directly caused by the psyche meds or a ruptured silicone implant, but this week for instance, I've been unable to go out & have instead lay out chronically exhausted & in pain all over, feeling like I'm 120 years old.

 

I have pain killers but they bite back somehow. As a Dutch citizen, you could try Bedrocan or something like that, but you'd need to decide if it's right for you. The reason I say this is because I've used something similar & it was verging on miraculous in treating all my aches & pains of body, heart & mind. Ingesting was the most effective mode of administration, but you have to know what you're doing, plus some are put off by the reputation that goes before it.

 

I also tried Kava Kava root only, but again you'd need to be carefull & reserach it beforehand. KonaKavaFarm in Hawaii was where I got mine from but since Fukushima, I'm not sure it's safe to import from that region. Check any other types of medication you might be taking. Ive noticed tylenol forte or co-codamol 30/500 seems to give me bad nerve pain in my lower legs...like a nerve is being stuck with a hot needle...indescribable tbh...hope this helps

 

Best ones

Temperance

UK

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Temperance
AboutClay Brochure.pdf

I already take magnesium 800 mg before bed, and vit C 3000 .

Have you tried clay as a detox? http://www.aboutclay.com I noticed a difference in brain fog within 6 hours after my first dose of edible Zeolite clay which is also good for treating radioation exposure which is happeing to all of us from Fukushima. Bentonite clay & iodine too. http://www.fukushimafacts.com see also http://www.greenclays.com/ & for Euorpe http://www.zeolith-bentonit-versand.de/en/?___from_store=de Bicarbonate of soda is very good de-tox, also safe replacement of mercury fillings by advance dentist, filtering your water, & using non-fluoride toothpaste will ease the burden of toxicity. http://drsircus.com/

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orchidblossom777

You are not alone. I have had burning and tingling intermittently since starting Zoloft August 16, 2013, and ever since being off, September 23rd, 2013.. THANKFULLY, it has been getting waaay better with how often they are happening, and has gone down hugely in intensity. When I first started, I had prickly heat all over my body, burning face, hands, feet, arms, legs, back, and mouth, rapid heart rate, weight loss, lack of appetite, insomnia, over the top Anxiety, muscle twitches, and my right arm and leg felt like I had a sock on them ( which has almost gone completely away). Now I have my finger tips amd toes burn occasionally, my tongue in two spots you can see turn red, my cheeks.. but mild and maybe once a day or twice at the most. My Primary has referred me to a Neurologist to make sure we haven't over seen anything, and they just checked me for Lupus yesterday. I know it isn't Lupus or an Auto Immune Disorder, but just residual nerve Irritation.. We will see... I have been logging every symptom for weeks, since the beginning, and I have been amazed at how much has decreased over these weeks. I have had my blood work checked three times over these months, and ALL vitamins and mineral levels are fine, as well as kidney, liver, wbc, rbc, ect ALL in normal levels.. I am vitamin D deficient, and take Vitamin D/C daily as well as  a Multivitamin and Omegas daily.. One day at a Time.. We will get through this.. Happy Thanksgiving!! :-)  

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Nadia

One of the symptoms that persists for me is a really particular kind of back pain... it's like extreme muscle tension, mostly around my sacrum, but weird. As if there were something corrosive inside of me. Since I have other sorts of back trouble, it took me a while to realize this was tied to when I have spells of not being well... now that most of my symptoms are very diminished, it sticks out like a sore thumb!

 

Anyway, I've found stretching helps a lot, and massaging with magnesium oil, and taking a Chi Kung class most of all. We imagine taking in universal energy from the earth and sky as a golden light and washing ourselves with it. You raise your arms as if collecting the energy and then pour it over you and imagine all the stagnant energy in you washing away and getting recycled. For some reason that really helps me! I think positive visualization can really help activate your mind and body to heal themselves.

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BeatAnxiety

Hi, 

 

I would like to specifically ask about muscle and joint pain as part of discontinuation.  Did you get it and how long did it last?  Also, did it interfere with your ability to exercise and function?  Pain is around my trunk and low back, pelvic bones and my right leg muscles feel like they are locked up.  Any attempt to exercise causes severe pain.

 

I have it bad and I developed it while on the meds and it was the reason for coming off SSRI/SNRIs.

 

Thanks

 

 

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Addax

Interesting question...

 

For me it's difficult to know what's withdrawal and what's aging. I've had more pain & injuries during this withdrawal than I ever have. I haven't added to or intensified my exercise. It doesn't feel like muscle pain, it's tendon, ligament, and now cartilage (meniscus?)stuff. Never the same place and just since last August or so, when I started tapering. But again, maybe it's age and a coincidence. I am intrigued though and am going to look into it some.

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trouper

lately i've been getting odd pains in areas lasting sometimes for only 10 mins to a few hours and other pains lasting a few days. spots include hip bone, side jaw, elbow, inside elbow, shoulder, knee, etc. it frequently happens when I'm sleeping which wakes me up.  hard to tell if its from dehydration, exercise, age, or withdrawal.

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Addax

So far, just doing a preliminary google search, I'm finding several places where joint and muscle pain, and muscle weakness are listed as symptoms of SSRI discontinuation, as well as just SSRI use. But the websites, like livestrong.com, don't cite any references. While the legitimacy or source of their information might be questionable, just the fact that there is mention of it is kind of interesting to me.

 

I'd never thought to look up anything on this topic despite the ongoing injury-like pain. Actually, they pain may indeed be injury related, which makes me wonder if perhaps there's a connection to injury proneness. Truth be told, I hope it's the Prozac withdrawal and not age... maybe I'm just looking for away to deny the aging process by blaming Prozac :).

 

Here's the livestrong article talking about Prozac withdrawal if you're interested. There's nothing particularly great about the article, but I guess it's a good thing that something as commercially driven and mainstream is acknowledging and mentioning SSRI withdrawal.

 

http://www.livestrong.com/article/29521-prozac-withdrawal-symptoms/

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Meimeiquest

Somehow I think it may have a connection to cortisol, but I don't have any documentation on that. Mine developed while on Prozac for years, was gone while poly drugging, but back now. I was diagnosed at one time with fibromyalgia.

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Nadia

I went to a sports medicine doctor for my back problems, and when some of my issues did not resolve after 10 sessions of physical therapy (excercises, ultrasound, electrical stimulation, massage), he said I have myofascial pain syndrome. I never said a word about my withdrawal, but he said he could tell I was an anxious person, and anxiety and depression can exacerbate pain. He said this was due to lower serotonin, which increases pain. I mention it for what it's worth.

 

In my case I think a lot of it has to do with continuous muscle tension from prolonged withdrawal.

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BeatAnxiety

Biggest issue I'm having since coming off ADs is pain around my mid-section/trunk area and muscles that get sore at the slightest exertion.  I don't find "muscle pain" as a listed side effect on any of the medical websites that discuss SSRI or AD discontinuation and withdrawal.  Symptoms listed are wide ranging and do include parasthesia and akasthesia but that is not what I'm having.  It's just unrelenting chronic muscle pain…not numbness, tingling, burning, or movement issues.  I am now having chest pain too.  I'm not overweight and otherwise pretty healthy despite the hell I am experiencing mentally.

 

My primary care Dr has a referral in for me to get checked out for this.

 

I am beginning to think it is either neurotoxicity from all the meds I was on or it could be associated with the high level of anxiety I am experiencing.  But, wanted to see if anyone suffered/suffers from muscle pain as a discontinuation symptom.  

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Petunia

Dr. Joseph Glenmullen has flu-like aches and pains listed in his withdrawal checklist here:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2390-dr-joseph-glenmullens-withdrawal-symptom-checklist/

 

Also, if you read through enough introduction threads you will find that lots of people experience the kind of muscle pain you describe. Here is a thread discussing muscle tension:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/418-muscle-tension/

 

Its good that you are getting it checked out, but it may be happening as a result of the increased anxiety of withdrawal.

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Rhiannon

I agree, best to get it checked out. I think it's a good idea to get a thorough medical checkup if you're wondering if something is withdrawal or not. Best to know for sure.

 

Pain (or rather what I think of as a lower pain threshold) is definitely one of my withdrawal symptoms (although I'm reducing other meds besides just SSRI). And "flu-like aches and pains" is I think very commonly listed as an SSRI withdrawal symptom. We certainly hear it complained of here. Not sure if that's what you're experiencing or not.

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Altostrata

BeatAnxiety, have you tried acupuncture for this pain?

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Adah

Hi BeatAnxiety.

 

I actually just posted this question myself. I have a chronic back injury that for years was only bothersome. Since I've been doing my med tapers, it's become almost debilitating. Again, I have an existing injury there, but the pain I am feeling is above and beyond what I've previously dealt with. I had shingles once, and it feels a lot like that.

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Altostrata

I had tingling pain in my arms, hands, and back from withdrawal for about 1.5 years. It finally went away with acupuncture.

 

Many, many people here have had pain of various kinds as a withdrawal symptom.

 

In the withdrawal literature (see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/325-papers-on-diagnosis-of-antidepressant-withdrawal-syndrome/), you will find this kind of pain under "paresthesia" or "myalgia." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myalgia
 

Myalgia, or muscle pain, is a symptom of many diseases and disorders. The most common causes are the overuse or over-stretching of a muscle or group of muscles.

....

Withdrawal syndrome from certain drugs

Sudden cessation of high-dose corticosteroids, opioids, barbiturates, benzodiazepines, caffeine or alcohol can induce myalgia in many respects.

 

 

Have you tried magnesium glycinate? That can help muscle pain.

 

It is possible your pain is due to something else. If it started while you were taking a psychiatric drug, it could be a lingering adverse effect of the drug. If it started after discontinuation, that's an indicator it's a withdrawal symptom.

 

Even if it's fibromyalgia, another poorly understood syndrome, you can recover from it.

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JanCarol

Ah Adah, you found this place.  I came to check to see if others have it.

 

Now I remember the "flu-like" thing,  But that's not like it is for me.  It's more that old aches and pains have deepened or that I haven't felt them while on full doses of psych meds, and now they are back (or increasing as I age) with a bite.

 

It's not debilitating like Adah, but I find I'm spending more time in pain than not.

 

And of course, Alto!  The magnesium is always the best.  I use my gel all the time, take soaks, and take a supplement, too.  I couldn't survive without them!  (maybe then I would be debilitated!)

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btdt

I had tingling pain in my arms, hands, and back from withdrawal for about 1.5 years. It finally went away with acupuncture.

 

Many, many people here have had pain of various kinds as a withdrawal symptom.

 

In the withdrawal literature (see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/325-papers-on-diagnosis-of-antidepressant-withdrawal-syndrome/), you will find this kind of pain under "paresthesia" or "myalgia." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myalgia

 

Myalgia, or muscle pain, is a symptom of many diseases and disorders. The most common causes are the overuse or over-stretching of a muscle or group of muscles.

....

Withdrawal syndrome from certain drugs

Sudden cessation of high-dose corticosteroids, opioids, barbiturates, benzodiazepines, caffeine or alcohol can induce myalgia in many respects.

 

 

Have you tried magnesium glycinate? That can help muscle pain.

 

It is possible your pain is due to something else. If it started while you were taking a psychiatric drug, it could be a lingering adverse effect of the drug. If it started after discontinuation, that's an indicator it's a withdrawal symptom.

 

Even if it's fibromyalgia, another poorly understood syndrome, you can recover from it.

Neither of these worked for me... I tried both. 

I was diagnosed with fibro... after prozac treatment was more antidepressants. 

I eventually quit them all... 

have posts under chronic fatigue fibro... as in drug induced mitochondria dysfunction after I found a link between firbo and mito damage... seemed to be full circle to me. 

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Altostrata

Well, btdt, everyone is different, that's understood, no need to post this didn't apply to you.

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