Jump to content
Hopeful

Tension, pain, twitches, excruciating spasms in muscles and joints

Recommended Posts

Hopeful

This article was taken from the blog:

 

http://willspirit.com/

 

Body Armor (May 27, 2011)

 

My apologies, everyone. This post is far afield from my usual topics. It was written for my acupuncture website. The piece discusses muscle tension, the most common problem I see in my practice. As we all know, muscle tension often results from (and contributes to) emotional stress.... One of the greatest failings of Western Psychiatry is its treatment of the mind in isolation, divorced from both body and soul. By bringing bodily symptoms into the mix, and especially when we encourage the soul’s development, we approach truly holistic mental health care....

 

Muscle tension affects most of us. For some, it’s an occasional problem. For others, the pain and stiffness of tight, sore muscles cause discomfort almost every day unless preventive measures are taken. A later article will review stretching exercises to help reduce tension, but this one will discuss how acupuncture helps reduce muscle soreness and spasm.

 

....Having spent many years learning Western biomedicine, I find understanding muscle tension scientifically quite easy and comfortable. My more recent education in Chinese medicine has challenged me to expand beyond the limited, material perspectives of my conventional training. But both views are useful and valuable in patient care.

 

In Western terms, tight muscles get locked into vicious cycles. Emotional stress, poor posture, repetitive activities, and trauma prompt the nervous system to stimulate muscle contraction. At an early stage, conscious attention to reducing these tensing signals may be enough to relax tight muscles.

 

However, if tension persists, the muscle enters a state of spasm. High tissue pressure within tight muscle bands restricts capillary blood flow. With compromised circulation, a muscle’s oxygen supply gets depleted, so its cells cannot maintain proper ion balance. Calcium accumulates in the muscle fibers, and stimulates worsening contraction and spasm.

 

A vicious cycle occurs when spasm further increases tissue pressure, which worsens the circulatory compromise. Oxygen becomes even more depleted, more calcium accumulates, and the muscle grows ever tighter. Contracted muscle bands become self-perpetuating as a result. The affected areas no longer relax, even if neural stimuli for contraction cease.

 

At the same time, the pain of tight muscles causes reflex neural commands to increase tension, which is the body’s way of guarding damaged areas. And although the muscles no longer relax in the absence of nerve stimuli, the spasms worsen in their presence. A second vicious cycle gets established, whereby tension leads to pain, which causes more tension.

 

In the Western view, acupuncture creates tiny lesions in muscles, which stimulate blood flow. The improved capillary blood supply brings in oxygen and removes waste, so proper calcium distribution gets restored. The muscle regains its ability to relax.

 

At the same time, acupuncture reduces the cycle of tension-pain-tension. One of the best-documented effects of needling is the reduction of pain signals. With less pain, there is less reflexive stimulation of contraction. The muscle releases...

 

You can finish reading this artice at: http://willspirit.com/

Edited by Hopeful
to delete a portion of the article for the spirit of the doctrine of fair use

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hopeful

This article was taken from the blog:

 

http://willspirit.com/

 

Body Armor (May 27, 2011)

 

 

However, if tension persists, the muscle enters a state of spasm. High tissue pressure within tight muscle bands restricts capillary blood flow. With compromised circulation, a muscle’s oxygen supply gets depleted, so its cells cannot maintain proper ion balance. Calcium accumulates in the muscle fibers, and stimulates worsening contraction and spasm.

 

A vicious cycle occurs when spasm further increases tissue pressure, which worsens the circulatory compromise. Oxygen becomes even more depleted, more calcium accumulates, and the muscle grows ever tighter. Contracted muscle bands become self-perpetuating as a result. The affected areas no longer relax, even if neural stimuli for contraction cease.

 

 

I recently started taking a calcium/magnesium/D3 liquid (the dose calls for 2 tablespoons and I'm only taking 1 teaspoon per day) I haven't been able to tolerate a D vitamin, but this so far hasn't bothered me. I wonder if this is not a good idea after reading the above article regarding the calcium and muscle tension...muscle tension is one of my residuals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Altostrata

Hopeful, have you been feeling better or worse since taking the supplement?

 

I believe the muscle tension depends on a balance involving calcium and magnesium. If you're low in calcium, this can also cause aches and pains. It's individual, a calcium supplement might help one person and not another.

 

Also, moving around helps remove the accumulated calcium from muscles. As the article says, it's partially a circulation problem.

 

I've had acupuncture for aches, pains, and muscle tension and found it very helpful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
angie007

Is accupuncture safe in early wd??

as this is something i suffer with too, mainly left shoulder

and arm,and lower back pain, im a bit scared to take anything that

may ramp up wd symptoms this early on, a sin suppliments etc, after my

awful experience with magnesium citrate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hopeful

Angie,

 

I had acupuncture for the first time at about the 1 1/2 year mark and then again recently. Hopefully someone that had it earlier in w/d will chime in and let you know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Healing

Very interesting essay, Hopeful. Makes me want to run out and get some acupuncture – I have all the characteristics of a Liverish personality!

 

Yeah, the issue of calcium and muscles must be complicated, because calcium is also recommended for muscle cramps. Why not give it a try. See how you feel.

 

 

Angie -- I think it's fine to try acupuncture in early w/d, but the key thing is to tell the practitioner that s/he must not do *anything* stimulating. Nothing. Even if it's something that s/he usually does that leads to calming.

 

I had acupuncture during the taper and early post-taper. I don't think it did much for me. I don't think the practitioner and I understood what was needed. But it certainly didn't hurt, and I felt maybe more relaxed after some of the sessions, temporarily.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hopeful

 

– I have all the characteristics of a Liverish personality!

 

 

Unfortunately, so do I :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Healing

It's alright, Hopeful. We just need to find the right canvas for our gifts. Then, irritable frustration and muscle tension :angry: will turn into a blazing passion! :excl:*:excl:*:excl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hopeful

It's alright, Hopeful. We just need to find the right canvas for our gifts. Then, irritable frustration and muscle tension :angry: will turn into a blazing passion! :excl:*:excl:*:excl:

 

 

Great positive way to look at it H, thanks! :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maybe

I do not know if this is the right thread, though I have also some new problems with my foot muscles.

Around 2 or 3 months ago, I was using a pedal boat with a friend when I was feeling quite fine. Problem is, I got sore muscles in my feet which took 3 to 4 weeks!!! to go away. And now my left foot is weird, i cannot use it 100% correctly. Hard to describe, but it flaps around somehow.

 

I am really losing my faith in recovery and my enjoyment of life. Physically I was 100% fit, trained and feeling great.

 

Is there anyone who had "only" physical symptoms that far out and still recovered? Most of those who have recovered spoke of improvements earlier or at 2 years out, but I get even worse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Altostrata

Maybe, this could be a physical issue. Perhaps you strained a muscle. I would go to a good chiropractor and get some treatment and exercise suggestions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maybe

Yes, this is a physical issue. But I think it is caused by wd. Never ever had sore muscles for 3 or 4 weeks. That is very unnatural.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
solida

Hi Qiurk,

 

I dont have "only" physical Symptoms that far out,but "many".

 

For example, when I m playing the drum,or even wash some shirts by hand my fingers still get blue afterwards (bruises),

or if I carry the baby from my friend sometimes my arm hurts for days really bad.Lower back pain comes and goes,

stiff neck all the time,pseudo arthritis in my knees comes and goes.A few times I had very sharp pain under my foot and so on.

 

.....I m tired of counting all the stuff and I also don t freak out by it.But of course some days it is really hard to bear.....Unfortunately I m hypersensitiv to accupunctur,but I enjoy a warm bath for muscle tension or getting a massage.

 

lg solida

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maybe

Hey Solida,

 

I just would like to know what we can do to help our damaged cns to heal. There must be something.

Why do other people heal faster? It would be so good to have some recovered persons on this board who could give some advice on what they did and what may have helped them.

 

It seems you also have many weird symptoms like I do. This is so very annoying...do you do some sports?

I remember when I was in hospital, we did sports for 15 minutes in the early mornings and on the average I had a really good time there. I felt much better than I feel now...for 3 long months!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
moses

Is it normal to have achy joints while tapering?

Rosie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jemima

I've certainly been having a problem with being stiff and achy, but I wasn't sure if that was due to withdrawal or all the time I spent in bed at the beginning. It's a relief to know that this too will eventually go away!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ajnjj

JEmima, have you ever heard that SSRIs cause fibromyalgia or CFS? Wondering if its that or ebsteinn barr flaring....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jemima

JEmima, have you ever heard that SSRIs cause fibromyalgia or CFS? Wondering if its that or ebsteinn barr flaring....

 

I think fibromyalgia has been mentioned as a side effect in a posting here, but I'll be darned if I remember where. (I don't know what CFS is.) Whatever medical problems you may have, in my opinion you can pretty much bet that antidepressants and withdrawal therefrom will aggravate each and every one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nikki

Moses...

 

Aches and pains are a huge WD symptom. I learned how to get rid of them by laying down wit a nice comforter and letting the heat release the pains. Worked every time.

 

I have the Epstein-Barr Virus which shows up periodically. For me stress reactivates it. So does sleep deprivation.

I have to be running on empty for quite awhile for it to resurface. WD symptoms and EBV mimic each other. I have been able to differentiate. Rest is the answer for me. An entire afternoon on the sofa with a book, TV and the comforter.

 

EBV also causes anxiety/depression just like WD....

 

Hugs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jemima

WD symptoms and EBV mimic each other. I have been able to differentiate. Rest is the answer for me. An entire afternoon on the sofa with a book, TV and the comforter.

 

EBV also causes anxiety/depression just like WD....

 

 

That's interesting. I have a friend who was given Prozac for Epstein-Barr and she's been on it for years. (She asked when she could quit taking it, and her doctor told her to continue with it forever.) Now I wonder if the doctor thought that since Prozac seemed to work for depression that it would cure EBV.

 

Am I correct in thinking that Epstein-Barr Virus is the medical term for mononucleosis?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skyler

 

WD symptoms and EBV mimic each other. I have been able to differentiate. Rest is the answer for me. An entire afternoon on the sofa with a book, TV and the comforter.

 

EBV also causes anxiety/depression just like WD....

 

 

That's interesting. I have a friend who was given Prozac for Epstein-Barr and she's been on it for years. (She asked when she could quit taking it, and her doctor told her to continue with it forever.) Now I wonder if the doctor thought that since Prozac seemed to work for depression that it would cure EBV.

 

Am I correct in thinking that Epstein-Barr Virus is the medical term for mononucleosis?

 

You got me wondering if this is the reason I don't see Dx for mono so much any more. See the http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/mononucleosis/AN00661 take

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skyler

Am I correct in thinking that Epstein-Barr Virus is the medical term for mononucleosis?

You got me wondering if this is the reason I don't see Dx for mono so much any more. See the Mayo Clinic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jemima

 

Am I correct in thinking that Epstein-Barr Virus is the medical term for mononucleosis?

You got me wondering if this is the reason I don't see Dx for mono so much any more. See the Mayo Clinic

 

Now I'm *really* confused. According to the CDC, EBV will turn into mono for 35-40% of adolescents and young adults, but is otherwise without symptoms. My friend was 51 when Prozac came on the market and I'm not sure if it was prescribed for her right away. Why on earth would this doctor give her a prescription for a virus that has no symptoms? Do I hear quacking in the background??? :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Altostrata

Just want to mention that achy joints can be caused by tight muscles; taking magnesium helps relax muscles, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker.

 

Also, be sure to drink plenty of water to keep those joints hydrated.

 

Now returning you to the conversation about EBV....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bruno2016

my joint pain started about 5 years ago while on effexor. When I was on the name brand in 2004, there was no problems. It wasnt until I got on effexor the second time that I started noticing knee problems. Things really got bad when I purchased a generic brand from a canadian pharmacy that came from India. I immediately had jaw pain, knee pain, and other pains. Since then, I have had joint problems. I then switched to zoloft and the severe joint pain eventually became manageable, but the zoloft made me feel ill and weak. Once I got on celexa, I added things like tumeric and fish oil and other things which helped a lot. I think the tumeric did a lot of good. Anyways, I have been off drugs for a year now and the joint pain is bothering me. When i first got off, it wasnt so bad. Then I began getting severe pains in my shoulders and jaw. Things sort of leveled out and right now my main issues are hip pain, thumb, ankle, wrist. Do you all think I should go see someone about this? Perhaps there is an underlying issue here. I am only 28 and cant imagine already having arthritis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
peggy

It is very possible that your joint pain is related to withdrawal - but also possible that you may have some kind of lingering virus that causes arthralgia. A blood test could show if you have any antigens or if your ESR is elevated (which often if there is some kind of inflammatory response going on in the body)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shanti

I had nerve pain before I was ever on any psyche meds. However, it was after I started taking meds that I developed severe facet joint pain in my lumbar and thoracic spine. Nothing shows up on MRI or Xray. I think there is a connection.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
bruno2016

It is very possible that your joint pain is related to withdrawal - but also possible that you may have some kind of lingering virus that causes arthralgia. A blood test could show if you have any antigens or if your ESR is elevated (which often if there is some kind of inflammatory response going on in the body)

 

this is one thing that has crossed my mind--is there some kind of virus or bacteria causing this? Is this test expensive? How can I get it? I dont have insurance :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vaseadude

Hi there!

 

I am having knee pain/discomfort, which makes me unstable when I stand on my feet, like having a hard time balancing on them, and feeling discomfort and strain in the knees. The knees seem to snap back and forth, like they are loose, and its hard to stand firmly on the feet. Sometimes I feel sharp pain in the bottom of my knees, below the knee cap. It usually gets more severe in the evening. It is just a discomfort to stand up on my feet. It seems fine when I sit or lye down, maybe just a little discomfort, barely noticeable. The real thing is when the pressure of my body presses on the knees when I stand.

 

Can this be related to withdrawal? I heard that you can get joint pain, but can it manifest like the above symptoms? OR could I have messed them up while exercising?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dalsaan

Hi Vas

 

What kind of exercise have you been doing and how much?

 

Dalsaan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vaseadude

I was doing mostly gentle exercise like qigong, and before the pain started, I was doing a still standing practice in total about 1 hour a day (more like standing meditation)(it wasnt a continuous 1 hour, but more like 20 min several times a day). I was doing it because it calmed me down at the same time. Now I think that that much practice could have strained my knees. In standing so much in this posture, I sometimes collapsed the proper alignments without noticing, and at the end of the session my knees felt stiff and took a minute to get to normal. Once I noticed the pain though, I stopped the exercises, and within a week the knees felt better, but I also did some salt baths for that. After that I reinstated the exercises but I dropped the long standing practice in favor of some movements and for less time. And now I feel this pain in the knees that I described above again. So I stopped the new exercises as well yesterday, and today I still had the pain, and in the evening it became worse.

Right now I think its more likely caused by mispractice of these exercises... but, at the same time I want to exclude that the pain could be brought by widhtrawal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vaseadude

And why I suspect it to be withdrawal is:

1. After I have resumed qigong with no standing and just a few movements each day, my knees felt ok for a few weeks. Then, while doing the same exercises the knee pain started all of a sudden again.

2. the knee pain started around 3-4 weeks after the cut last time and its the same period this time as well.

 

Thus, at first I thought it might be that I overstrained them somehow doing the exercises. But with these above facts, I suspect the withdrawal too. So I want to ask if anyone experienced or has heard of such symptoms in withdrawal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skyler

So I want to ask if anyone experienced or has heard of such symptoms in withdrawal.

 

I heard of those types of symptoms because of knee strain.. sound kinda familiar actually.

 

According to martial arts instructor Dave Coffman, traditional Chinese martial arts poses are pigeon-toed. This means you stand with your toes pointed slightly inward. Qigong is no exception. Standing with toes inward can put significant stress on the knees, leading over time to knee pain and loss of mobility. Instructor Jeffery points out that many modern tai chi and qigong schools have adjusted their postures to include less stressful foot positions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.