☼ Zang909 Almost 20 Years Medicated. Time to stop.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Just sticking my nose in here when I saw you ordered magnesium with "something else". In this case, I looked it up. It contains:

 

 

and is really expensive. I bought a crappy bottle of kal mag glycinate at the health food store, 200mg EACH TABLET (you have to read the directions carefully) in a 90 count bottle for $17.99. I can't quite do the math but the kal may be cheaper per pill.

 

But that is not what I wanted to say. It is that it is a less bioavailable form of mag (see this site for a bit of info), dimagnesium malate. And the tablets also contain some of the B vitamins which some (not all) people can't tolerate in wd. As you increase the tablets you are taking' the amt of the vits you are getting increases too. If you aren't getting an optimal amt of mag or the extra vits aren't agreeing with you, you won't know which it is because it is a 'mixed supplement'.

 

The one thing that this formulation has going for it is there is a way to start slow, a single tab is 125 mg.

 

There is a thread somewhere about a Dr. Cabot who sells a formulation of mag that looks very interesting, I don't know where it is off hand but I posted a youtube video form her site on it. It may be in the mag thread or a response to something that compsports (member) posted.

 

There is so much hype going on in the supplement industry. SRT? that is 'sustained release technology', is that really needed? But I benefited so much from magnesium, I can't recommend it enough no matter what you try.

[Zang909]

Thanks, Cymbaltawithdrawal5600. I did a bunch of research, but still after I ordered this magnesium I realized that another formulation might have been better. The SRT wasn't really a selling point for me, it was mainly the Albion name, which is supposed to be reputable. But I admit to not catching the fact that it was dimagnesium malate prior to ordering.

If it ends up going badly for me, I'll likely try another formulation which only contains chelated magnesium.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I did not know if you knew about the additives. You know, sometimes I think some of this stuff is all marketing hype too. The US gov site had different info on the best mag types from that site I gave you.

 

I can remove that supplement label if you wish, just noticed that it is HUGE.

 

(Edited out the above, I repeat myself too much)

[Zang909]

No worries.

On Amazon, someone had put together a very complete review comparing different brands of magnesium supplements, and I ended up reading it and following all the links and comparing the different brands as well as reading the reviews. Somewhere in all that reading, I lost some of the facts.

I ended up focusing on finding a reputable brand without harmful additives (forgetting to look out for additives which might be healthy for everyone except those of us going through withdrawal) and settled on the Jigsaw brand.

Hopefully it will help with my heart pounding symptom and help me to sleep. Or at least do no harm.

I appreciate how knowledgeable folks are on this board and welcome feedback and thoughts. I don't know where I'd be without it. 

[Zang909]

I've been maintaining at 125mg per day of the Jigsaw Health brand Magnesium tablets, and my sleep has pretty much returned to normal. If my heartrate is still becoming elevated when I lay down, it's not bad enough to induce anxiety or otherwise interfere with my sleep.

Did my reclining heart rate return to normal and did my sleep return to normal due to the Magnesium supplement? Or would it have returned to normal even if I had not begun taking the Magnesium? I honestly don't know. I don't want to be too quick to credit the Magnesium (or to credit only the Magnesium), but I have to note the correlation.

I'll continue to take the Magnesium, and when it runs out I'll buy a different brand - one that doesn't include anything but chelated Magnesium.

For now I just note that my sleep is much improved, a fact for which I am extremely thankful.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

That is great news no matter what the real reason!

[Zang909]

As of 01/28/15, I am med-free for eight months.

 

At this point, I’m not really sure what’s going on or how I’m doing. I’m definitely not doing terrible: I am able to go to work each day and just had a good evaluation from my manager. But I’m definitely anxious; it’s a pretty constant thing and it feels as though I am sensitive to everything – especially sounds and disruptions to my routine.

 

I’m feeling especially challenged by my 16-year old ADHD stepson. He is a constant source of noise, disruption, bad attitude, and a constant need for vigilance on my part. He therefore becomes the focus of any anxiety I have that happens to be looking for a focus.

 

Having some rocky interactions with my wife, which is uncharacteristic. My wife’s career is going gangbusters after years of very hard work on her part. I’m holding steady in a dull cubicle job. Her work genuinely helps people; my work doesn’t really matter. But my work is what I can do without falling apart. I’ve supported her through some difficult professional times for her, and I’m very happy for her success. My insecurities, however, make me concerned that she is growing past me. She is out in the professional world, working with people who are making a difference, interacting with strong confident men while her husband huddles at home, afraid of the world.

 

I feel like a silly little man. Fragile. Petty. Upset over little noise. Giving in to my anger every time my stepson expresses his teenage moodiness, ignorance, and arrogance. Yet, am I really any better when I end up screaming and swearing at him? Nope.

 

My anxiety isn’t crippling. It’s not debilitating. But it’s a constant drain. Like driving on the highway when it’s extremely foggy out. Not a difficult task, but after a while you feel exhausted from the extra vigilance you didn’t even realize you had to maintain.

 

And that feeling, in the middle of a disagreement with my wife, when I realize that I honestly don’t know whether I have an honest grievance or if it’s my unreliable brain that is making up some unnecessary upset. I therefore lack all conviction because I can’t trust my convictions.

 

I’m tired of feeling crazy. Actually, my anxiety isn’t really bad enough to make me feel crazy; it makes me feel silly and stupid and unreliable instead. In some ways that’s not as bad as feeling crazy, but in some ways perhaps it’s a little worse. Back when I thought I was crazy I could at least blame these episodes on “being crazy.” But now these episodes just feel like moral failings. Failures.

[Altostrata]

Zang, that sounds like old wounds flaring up. Something needs to be exorcised. Are you seeing a counselor?

[Zang909]

Yeah, it's definitely old wounds. I told my wife that I think I'd benefit from seeing a counselor. My employer just changed our insurance, though, so I'm going to have to look for a new care provider and I'm a little bit gun-shy. Am I going to have to spend hours telling someone new about my extensive history and then end up battling them on the topic of medications? The thought of spending months doing that is daunting.

[Pugknows]

No worries.

On Amazon, someone had put together a very complete review comparing different brands of magnesium supplements, and I ended up reading it and following all the links and comparing the different brands as well as reading the reviews. Somewhere in all that reading, I lost some of the facts.

I ended up focusing on finding a reputable brand without harmful additives (forgetting to look out for additives which might be healthy for everyone except those of us going through withdrawal) and settled on the Jigsaw brand.

Hopefully it will help with my heart pounding symptom and help me to sleep. Or at least do no harm.

I appreciate how knowledgeable folks are on this board and welcome feedback and thoughts. I don't know where I'd be without it.

[Altostrata]

Zang, find out the therapist's position on drugs before you make an appointment. There are quite a few that don't idolize the chemical cure.

 

See http://www.madinamerica.com/service-directory/directory-category/individual-practitioner/

[Pugknows]

Hi Zang, Just read your magnesium research. Thank you. You sound like a very sensitive supportive husband and father. Your family is lucky yo have you.

[Zang909]

Thanks for providing that link, Altostrata. For some reason, there is a "(2)" next to the state I live in, but when I click on the name of my state, it says no listings found. I must be doing something wrong...

I figured out how to get the site to work - thanks again!

[Zang909]

Hi Zang, Just read your magnesium research. Thank you. You sound like a very sensitive supportive husband and father. Your family is lucky yo have you.

 

Thanks very much, Pug. I have my good days and I have my strong points.

[Altostrata]

How the heck does it work, Zang?

[Zang909]

How the heck does it work, Zang?

 

You have to click the words "Service Directory" in the "Resources" box at the bottom of the page, then click on your location in the list on the left.

It took me a little while, and some trial and error, to figure it out...

[Zang909]

Had a very close call this past week. It was pretty dark for a while.

If I had any Lexapro in the house, I might have taken some. I ended up making an appointment with a psychiatrist, intending to ask him to prescribe me something.

Now that seems absurd. It's so difficult when the brain I rely upon to keep me off meds starts telling me that I should go back on meds. I believed every lie that my brain was telling me.

[Lilu]

Hi Zang, 

I would much appreciate your point of view on my situation:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4149-lilu-depression-worsened-by-meds/?p=130275

Thanks,

Lilu

[Zang909]

I weighed in over on your thread, Lilu. You're in my thoughts; hang in there.

[Zang909]

Still med-free and my mood is much improved.

 

A big issue I had for a while there was a feeling that I was right back where I started, years ago. That I've wasted years of my life. I'm still struggling with anxiety, feelings of inadequacy, etc.

But I've been working on re-framing things. I'm not right back where I started.

 

Since I've never really worked on these issues (since I've really just medicated them away for almost twenty years), I'm really just starting work on these issues for the first time in my life. I've got a lot of living under my belt, a lot of experience and perspective, and during the years I was medicated I built a stable and loving family. So now, in some ways, I am just beginning the real work. Unmedicated. Just me and my demons. And my support network in my corner.

 

Perhaps that's one of the most tempting things about the meds for me. Being on the meds meant that in many ways I could just pretend that I didn't have problems - the introversion, the sensitivity, the lifelong anxiety, etc. I could just pretend that it was all good, and I didn't have to deal with the pain. And it is painful. And perhaps the pain feels even worse because I haven't been used to dealing with it; so it is too fresh, too raw, and I've no resistance to it.

[Zang909]

Visited a psychiatrist today. Here's a summary of his wisdom:

1. I have anxiety.
2. I will always have anxiety.
3. The anxiety is due to a chemical imbalance in my brain.
4. Medication will fix the chemical imbalance and take away the symptoms of anxiety, making my quality of life much better.
5. There is no reason to live a life that's more difficult when the meds will help me so much.

He fooled me by at first admitting that there is such a thing as Discontinuation Syndrome. But then he said that it only lasts a week to ten days at the most.

I really should have known better. All he has is a hammer, so of course I must have looked like a nail to him. 

[Pugknows]

Zang, you are the plumber and he is that thingie in the toilet (the cock and ball?) Always wanted to use that analogy. What I'm trying to say is that only you, not a drug, can fix you. But you already know this. I'm just saying it to myself. And I don't think you're a nail.

[Zang909]

Thanks, Pug.

I really should have known better. There were times that he seemed very knowledgeable and compassionate, but at other times he seemed not to really be listening to what I said.

At one point, he said that he has some patients who don't want to take meds, but he has them carry the meds around with them in their pocket, and that carrying the med around with them makes them feel better - just knowing that it's there if they need it. I stopped myself from saying that that sounded like having an alcoholic carry a beer around with them; of course they're going to go back on meds if they have it handy during their moments of weakness.

He also said that everyone is able to find a med that fixes their depression/anxiety and doesn't give them any undesirable side-effects. I stopped disagreeing with him after a while because I was afraid he was going to make a bunch of notes in his chart accusing me of being combative or irrationally anti-medication.

He said that he'd be willing to treat me without meds, but my feeling is that he is so pro-medication that it would be an unspoken thing every session that I should go back on meds. And in a moment of weakness such as I experienced a little while ago, I might take him up on it.

I need to find a good, compassionate counselor that isn't a drug evangelist.

[Rhiannon]

Zang, you can find that counselor, it just may take a while and meeting a few of the wrong ones first. But it's worth the time when you find the right one. I'm sorry this guy was a dud.

[Pugknows]

Hi Zang, I try to steer clear of people who are opinionated, talk in absolutes and fundamentally see the world differently than I do. Maybe I don't trust my ability to stand my ground with them or don't have enough in common to share anything with them. It's too bad he wasn't the right doc for you, but your gut is telling you something you should listen to.

[Zang909]

Thank you, Rhi and Pug.

I have to admit that his attitude combined with my tendency toward rumination is a bad combination. He's got me doubting myself and this course of action.

But that's something I just need to get through.

[Lilu]

I weighed in over on your thread, Lilu. You're in my thoughts; hang in there.

Thank you so much. I replied to you in my thread. You're a very kind and compassionate person. Your words really made a difference.

[Lilu]

I've been maintaining at 125mg per day of the Jigsaw Health brand Magnesium tablets, and my sleep has pretty much returned to normal. If my heartrate is still becoming elevated when I lay down, it's not bad enough to induce anxiety or otherwise interfere with my sleep.

Did my reclining heart rate return to normal and did my sleep return to normal due to the Magnesium supplement? Or would it have returned to normal even if I had not begun taking the Magnesium? I honestly don't know. I don't want to be too quick to credit the Magnesium (or to credit only the Magnesium), but I have to note the correlation.

I'll continue to take the Magnesium, and when it runs out I'll buy a different brand - one that doesn't include anything but chelated Magnesium.

For now I just note that my sleep is much improved, a fact for which I am extremely thankful.

 

How long did you take the Magnesium for before you noticed that your heart palpitations stopped. This is a new symptom for me, and seems to have started recently. It can be so intense that I cannot go to sleep. But it also happens after breakfast, even though I have now switched to decaf coffee. 

[Zang909]

How long did you take the Magnesium for before you noticed that your heart palpitations stopped. This is a new symptom for me, and seems to have started recently. It can be so intense that I cannot go to sleep. But it also happens after breakfast, even though I have now switched to decaf coffee. 

 

Whew - I'm glad I keep a log of these things. It looks like it started helping pretty quickly, and by the time I had been taking it for five days, I still had a racing heart when I lay down each night and upon awaking each morning, but it wasn't keeping me from sleeping anymore.

 

I'll reiterate, though, that I can't for certain say that the Magnesium helped me. All I can say for certain is that the easing of my pounding heart coincided with my beginning to take the Magnesium. Either the Magnesium helped me, or the symptom eased up on its own. I continue to take the Magnesium daily, though. My sleep these days is good, a fact for which I am so thankful.

I still drink coffee every morning, too, though I've gone down to a small cup of relatively weak coffee with half the sugar I used to use.

 

Hang in there.

[Zang909]

 

Thank you so much. I replied to you in my thread. You're a very kind and compassionate person. Your words really made a difference.

 

 

I get so much help and reassurance here; I'm glad to be able to help someone else.

 

Someday the stuff we're figuring out will be common knowledge and the people of the future will be amazed that we had to go through all this with no help but each other.

[Altostrata]

Very happy to hear you're doing better. I added our cheerful "here comes the sun" symbol

☼

to the title of your Intro topic.

[Zang909]

Very happy to hear you're doing better. I added our cheerful "here comes the sun" symbol

 

☼

 

to the title of your Intro topic.

 

Yay! A simple little thing, but encouraging!

[Altostrata]

[ang]

Visited a psychiatrist today. Here's a summary of his wisdom:

1. I have anxiety.
2. I will always have anxiety.
3. The anxiety is due to a chemical imbalance in my brain.
4. Medication will fix the chemical imbalance and take away the symptoms of anxiety, making my quality of life much better.
5. There is no reason to live a life that's more difficult when the meds will help me so much.

He fooled me by at first admitting that there is such a thing as Discontinuation Syndrome. But then he said that it only lasts a week to ten days at the most.

I really should have known better. All he has is a hammer, so of course I must have looked like a nail to him. 

Love it!!!  How old is this psych?   Both mine that said this have either bolted, or retired.  All I can say, is well done!!!   I am feeling slightly better myself, and reading your thread is an inspiration.  You sound like you are doing well to me  (since we are all suffering so badly)... Dont give in.    I been on all of em, and all the drugs do, is make everything worse.   I am settling in for the long haul, to finally get better. I been thru so many of these non existent withdrawals, I had enough.  And if you had an AD that worked for 20 years?  wow, most bomb out after 5......

 

Well done, the WD may still hit you badly, but you sound like you will cope.  

 

Your hammer and nail, you have made me laugh so much, thankyou!  I call it using a brick to kill a mosquito......I like yours better.

 

 

After three months of hell, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, I have another month of hell, fine, I will improve.

[ang]

I dont mean to hijack your thread, but I have seen quite a few psychiatrists.

 

35 years old..............I didn't want to get out of bed one day..........Psych number one.....   believed in massive doses (double max recommended dothiepin), result?  fits and 3 weeks in hospital after 8 weeks.... made me so damn scared, let him put me on another AD, for my ""obviously""underlying problem  "meds dont do that"".............. yeah fell for it, fear does that.

 

This psych has actually fled the country as he told a lady she needed to go and have a good  F+++   omg... I think he was getting deregistered in oz anyway.  (Got a sister who typed up court reports, he was always defending himself!!!)

 

Psych number two, told me "how sick I was" as I had an all day horrific panic attack,  why?  a gp had just prescribed an antispychotic for my exhaustion (called four kids, mini farm, and absent husband). Had been off meds 9 years. 

 

Of course led to psych number 3.  She was a South African born and bred spinster.....(old language)..., who refused to give me a letter to go on DSP, I was pretty stuffed on the effexor she prescribed, and all the other stuff.  Centrelink gave me the DSP anyway, was obvious I was suffering.  Outcome  she wouldn't see me anymore, probably retired, thank god.

 

And of all the people, in the public health system, and the gps, I respect them, they all did their best of a bad situation.  Private psychiatrists?  Never, ever, will I go anywhere near them again.

 

Keep well Zang, and WELL DONE!   20 years on the stuff........ wow, you get off em, you deserve a medal for determination.

[Zang909]

Thanks for the kind words, ang!

 

I have a teenager at home and he has been causing so much stress and conflict. I was thinking the other day about how all the conflict will die down once he gets a better handle on his emotions. I was thinking that he just needs to learn to deal with all these emotions which are new to him and overpowering.

And then I thought: I'm going through kind of a similar thing. After all these years of the meds numbing my anxiety and other issues, I'm really only dealing with them for the first time now without a filter. So, they're kind of overwhelming and I'm having to learn to cope with them and learn strategies for how to deal with these feelings constructively.

 

If this is a good analogy, perhaps it will help me to be kinder and more patient with myself and less likely to just view my feelings as being signs of sickness and brokenness.