Stall: greetings

[Stall]

5 hours ago, Songbird said:

 

I'm not seeing lorazepam in your signature - how often are you taking that?

Well about 1 to 2 weeks ago i had my Dr. prescribe me 3, 1mg ativan. No refills just a stop gap measure for heightened anxiety. I only take that in emergency type situations. Its all gone now.

[Stall]

1pm up
1.30pm eat 1/4 cup steel cut oats
2pm took buspar 20 mg
2pm lost oral syringe trip to buy new one
4pm take 1.6ml/3.2mg citalaprom and 100mg wellbutrin sr
5pm I think the effects of the ativan are bleeding into today, less anxious.
5pm eat larger meal
6pm 1 teaspoon of yerba matte tea
7pm watching Chopped
8pm not anxious or calm somewhere in the middle
10pm 50mg wellbutrin 20mg buspar
11pm less anxious probably bleed over from ativan
2pm 250 mg magnesium 6mg melantonin sleep

[Altostrata]

Hello, Stall. How long have you been taking Wellbutrin at night? How's your sleep?

[Stall]

I have been taking the buspar 20mg the wellbutrin 50mg IR, at around 7pm or 8pm. Other, than the anxiety after taking benadryl the other night surprisingly I have been able to sleep relatively well. Also, the anxiety level has lowered noticeably. But sleep 250 mg of magnesium and 6mg of melantonin does the trick.

[Shep]

 

5 hours ago, Stall said:

Also, the anxiety level has lowered noticeably.

 

Earlier this week, you mentioned the diphenhydramine made you more anxious. Do you think the reduced anxiety could be from not taking the diphenhydramine? 

 

Sounds like you are stabilizing. It may be a matter of holding everything steady for awhile and giving your nervous system a chance to rest from all of the recent changes. 

[Stall]

Yeah, the idea in the very beginning was that the diphenhydramine was making me anxious, though I was not 100% sure. The anxiety level lowered noticeably after the failed reinstate and subsequent use of ativan. But, yes I think I turned a corner after that event. Markedly less anxious for sure. Today I feel much more myself without anxiety nipping at my heels.

[Stall]

Previous day I took an Allegra for my nasal congestion I think it, the Allegra, was keeping me up.

5am took hydroxyzine I just could not sleep miserable with cold flu symptoms

5/28

 yesterday I started coming down with a cold/flu or something congestion fatigue etc.

10am woke up feel awful nasal congestion malaise

11am no anxiety but feel miserable

12 pm Dr appt.

1pm home and sleep till around 5pm

6-8pm up

9pm store for supplies

10:40 take buspar 20 mg wellbutrin 50mg IR

11pm anxiety levels are way down feeling like myself, but I am sick

 

* gonna try to not take anything for sleep except melantonin and magnesium

[Stall]

5/30

10am up citalopram 3.2mg 100mg wellbutrin sr
10:15am eat
11am 20mg buspar
11:30 headache and anxiety probably from not drinking tea for the last two days
3:00pm 1 teaspoon of tea headache gone

4:00 eat sparingly

7pm buspar 20 mg wellbutrin 50 mg IR

8-10pm on pc

12am melantonin 2.5 mg and magnesium 250 mg

3am restless sleep

3:30 up feels like my hearts beating fast

3:45 check bp normal and heart rate is 60-67 bpm

4am sleep isn't gonna happen

 

*feels like my heart is racing coupled with anxiety, but its not so that's strange

*I want to take a hydroxyzine, but don't want to get hooked on that too.

* feeling of irritability and sensitiivty to loud noise is way down which is good , anxiety is not as bad but its there.

*still sick feeling luckless

* looking online and I am not alone in becoming dependent on diphenhydramine

* many have anxiety and insomnia from it after they quit

[Stall]

This is weird, it feels like my heart is skipping a beat or racing one of the two. Same sensation I had when I decided to quit diphenhydramine. This is driving me crazy I havent taken anything, no ativan left just hydroxyzine. Hell it could just be really bad anxiety and not have anything to do with the diphenhyrdramine.

[Stall]

General musings here: My theory on my current anxiety ridden state. The current doses of medications I am taking are relatively low. Citaloprom being the lowest, wellbutrin the second lowest, and buspar at around the therapeutic dose. Citalopram at is current dose is probably just staving off withdrawal. I really doubt I get any therapeutic value from taking it. Wellbutrin on the other hand is a decent sized dose and probably helps deal with depression. Buspar, I can honestly say has made little if any dent in my anxiety. In fact, buspar was the first medication I tried. I never experienced any substantial relief from anxiety from taking it, at least nothing noticeable.

 

So as far as medication goes, the benefit I get from taking it is minimal. What I think happens in situations like this when I am under a lot of stressors, is my ability to cope with anxiety is easily overwhelmed. Once that threshold has been passed its difficult to return to a state the resembles normalcy. I think quitting the benadryl pushed me across that threshold and the subsequent withdrawal effects of not taking it [irritability, anxiety, insomnia, agitation] aggravated my already overwhelmed anxious state.

 

So now I am in a state of extreme anxiety where every little sensations sets of alarms of worry and dread. Who knows how much of this is from withdrawal from benadryl or general anxiety? How can you suss that out, how can you measure that? In the past, a few days in a crisis home would get me back on track, routine, normal sleep cycle, social interaction.

 

Who wants to go to a crisis home though? Also, times like these make the suggestion of "maybe you should adjust your meds" look attractive. and whoever I talk to about psychiatric medication with an MD in front of there name is trying to convince me to try another one. However, my mind always goes back to how many times I ve been burned trusting Dr.s prescribing psychiatric medication. The final thought is even if I was able to safely get on a med that "worked" for me  is that the goal, preferred solution? What do you learn from that?  From a human evolution standpoint I would learn zero from numbing my anxiety and depression with meds.This path of suffering is really hard and sometimes I question it.

[ChessieCat]

On 5/4/2016 at 9:32 AM, Altostrata said:

 

"Therapeutic dose" means absolutely nothing. It's an arbitrary number from the drug companies.

 

You may not be feeling anything from the drug but your system can still be dependent on it.

 

[Altostrata]

On 5/31/2019 at 9:13 AM, Stall said:

5/30

10am up citalopram 3.2mg 100mg wellbutrin sr
10:15am eat
11am 20mg buspar
11:30 headache and anxiety probably from not drinking tea for the last two days
3:00pm 1 teaspoon of tea headache gone

4:00 eat sparingly

7pm buspar 20 mg wellbutrin 50 mg IR

8-10pm on pc

12am melantonin 2.5 mg and magnesium 250 mg

3am restless sleep

3:30 up feels like my hearts beating fast

3:45 check bp normal and heart rate is 60-67 bpm

4am sleep isn't gonna happen

 

*feels like my heart is racing coupled with anxiety, but its not so that's strange

*I want to take a hydroxyzine, but don't want to get hooked on that too.

* feeling of irritability and sensitiivty to loud noise is way down which is good , anxiety is not as bad but its there.

*still sick feeling luckless

* looking online and I am not alone in becoming dependent on diphenhydramine

* many have anxiety and insomnia from it after they quit

 

Is the racing heart symptom worse at any particular times of day? I've seen you report the headache before, after you take your earlier set of drugs (seems like your drug schedule has been somewhat inconsistent.)

 

Why are you taking Wellbutrin together with citalopram in the morning? Why do you take Buspar with Wellbutin in the evening?

 

On 5/25/2019 at 11:46 AM, Shep said:

....

You have two MAJOR and three MODERATE drug interactions in your drug cocktail. Please see: 

 

Drug Interaction Report - Celexa, Buspar, Wellbutrin, diphenhydramine

 

Wellbutrin and Celexa have a major interaction and Buspar and Celexa also have a major interaction. Your Celexa does is relatively low now, so hopefully any interaction is mild  to nonexistent at this point. 

....

 

Subtracting diphenhydramine, there are still some culprits for drug-drug interaction. Plus, it may be those drugs you took for the bronchial virus might have shaken up the regimen.

 

My suspicion is that you have become hypersensitive to buproprion, it is stimulating and can cause headache, palpitations, and sleeplessness.

 

Looks to me like tapering buproprion may be the way to go.

 

 

[Stall]

11 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Is the racing heart symptom worse at any particular times of day? I've seen you report the headache before, after you take your earlier set of drugs (seems like your drug schedule has been somewhat inconsistent.)

I haven't noticed it come or go at any particular time. Yes, my drug sched. is inconsistent.

 

Why are you taking Wellbutrin together with citalopram in the morning? Why do you take Buspar with Wellbutin in the evening?

No one has ever instructed me to take them differently. The pharmacists have never warned me or instructed me.

what regimen do you suggest?

 

Subtracting diphenhydramine, there are still some culprits for drug-drug interaction. Plus, it may be those drugs you took for the bronchial virus might have shaken up the regimen.

I believe the albuterol sent me over my anxiety coping threshold. I took it for a month straight 2 to 3 doses a day. In the past it has preceded anxiety episodes.

 

My suspicion is that you have become hypersensitive to buproprion, it is stimulating and can cause headache, palpitations, and sleeplessness.

If this is true than it must have just recently occurred.

 

Looks to me like tapering buproprion may be the way to go.

 

Ive wanted to taper the buproprion for a long time I just don't know how to approach it. Should I start with the 50mg IR dose or start by switching the 100 mg SR to IR? Also, say I start tapering the 50 IR is the goal to get that down to 0 and only take one dose of 100 SR for the day. Is that enough to tide me over for the day and not send me into withdrawal? Too many questions unanswered is why I never began. Also, I need a scale before I start.

 

 

 

[Stall]

5/31 Ill try to do my best to remember.

8am made it to sleep/restless sleep till 1am

2:30pm General Provider Dr. visit realize I forgot to take medications

they do ekg and say everthing falls within the spectrum of normal refer me to cardiologist.

4:00 take celexa and buspiron pretty much anxious from the time I was up till now

5:00 take the buspar

5:00 meet with some folks, anxiety goes away when I am interacting with people and not musing in my thoughts.

6:00-700 pm hang out and talking with folks

7:30 shopping and to go food

8pm home exhausted sick with sore throat malaise anxiety level is down

1am screw it and take a hydroxyzine the heart racing thing is noticeable but I sleep till 4pm the next day much need rest.

 

[Stall]

I really need to write this as a go as of now I am just recalling

6/1

9am get up and take celexas and buproprion

10 am get and take buspar

10am back to sleep till 4

4pm I do not have anxiety that's outrageous or unmanageable

4pm eat sparingly start making food

8pm eat

9pm buspar and buproprion

9:40 a little annoyed still sick and malaise plus slight cough

 *thoughts seems the hyroxyzine takes the edge off and lasts into the next day

[Stall]

6/1 continued

10pm burst of anxiety after reading post and thinking about tapering buproprion

10:20 ice cream is my salvation

1040pm anxiety subsides a bit no racing or fluttering heartbeat

1:25 I am up. No anxiety or fluttering heart, palpitations.

1:30 neck is sore slight headache

2:14 I can tell my BP is high, I know the feeling. checked it and it is. Make myself even more anxious if i keep checking it.

took some magnesium 250 mg, its not really doing anything. took another 250 magnesium

minds flying now, what if etc.

Try to sleep I guess I probably wont be able to fall asleep

 

[Altostrata]

Please choose a drug schedule and stick to it. Some of your symptoms may be from an inconsistent drug schedule.

 

What is your usual sleep schedule?

 

Please post 24 hours of notes in one post.

 

I wouldn't taper anything until you get your drug schedule consistent for 5 days in a row, so we can see your baseline symptoms.

 

For information, see Tips for tapering off Wellbutrin, SR, XR, XL (buproprion)

[Stall]

6 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Please choose a drug schedule and stick to it. Some of your symptoms may be from an inconsistent drug schedule.

 

What is your usual sleep schedule?

 

Please post 24 hours of notes in one post.

 

I wouldn't taper anything until you get your drug schedule consistent for 5 days in a row, so we can see your baseline symptoms.

 

For information, see Tips for tapering off Wellbutrin, SR, XR, XL (buproprion)

wrote out a sched. and I am gonna try to  stick to it the best I can

My sleep schedule now is non existent. I go to sleep when I can. Lately the best sleep Ive gotten is when I take the hydroxyzine. I try to go to sleep at midnight, but sometimes it just doesn't happen. So as of now I am  trying at midnight, but who knows if I will be able to sleep. Magnesium and melatonin don't really do the trick. Exercise helps, but I am sick right now so...

 

6/2

9 am citlalopram buspar got up took meds back to sleep

10 am buproprion 100mg sr

10-2pm resting

2pm eat
6pm eat
7pm 20mg buspar 25 mg buproprion ir
8pm 25 mg buproprion ir

12am try to sleep

 

*generally less anxious today

 

[Stall]

9 am citlalopram 20mg buspar
9 am eat
10:30 am 100mg buproprion
11 am rest
4pm done resting
5:40 pm yerba matte tea
6pm buproprion 25 mg

6:30pm 25mg buproprion

7pm eat
8pm buspar

midnight sleep

 

* still have anxiety but managable

 

[Stall]

6/4

9:30am celexa buspar
10:30am bupropion ,resting
11: am albuterol,resting
2pm slight nervous effects from albuterol
3pm-4pm resting
5pm bupropion 50mg

7pm buspar

10pm albuterol

10:15anxiety spike

11pm hydroxyzine, no noticeable effect

12am anxiety reaches a crescendo, mindfulness meditation on web

anxiety settles

12am-7am no sleep to speak of

7-845am sleep.

[Stall]

6/5

9am celexa buspar
10am bupropion
11-4pm calmness
5pm bupropion 50mg
5:30 slight uptick in anxiety
6pm buspar
more anxiety
7pm take first days dose of 6 day script for Methylprednisolone
getting super tired... and will probalby sleep soon

*last dose of bupropion seems to give me a boost in anxiety, not sure if its worry or real.

*midday calm may be after effects of hydroxyzine?

 

[Stall]

6/14

 

Update: so basically my med regimen is this

 

9am 3.2 mg citalopram + 20 mg of buspar

approximately 8 hours later

5pm 50 mg wellbutrin

one hour later

6pm buspar 20 mg.

 

since I last posted anxiety has decreased noticeably, no more fluttering heart or palpitation sensations and less panicked.

 

I still have underlying anxiety, easily annoyed by sounds and stimuli, however that's normal for me [trauma side effect]. Definitely do not have unrelenting constant level 10 anxiety.

 

I have sparingly used hydroxyzine, between 6/5 and 6/14 I have used it twice.

I have been sleeping well, although I still wake up many times in the night I am able to go back to sleep.

So now that everything has leveled out I am reluctant to change anything. Eventually I really would like to be off wellbutrin.

[Shep]

On 6/14/2019 at 11:12 PM, Stall said:

So now that everything has leveled out I am reluctant to change anything. Eventually I really would like to be off wellbutrin.

 

I'm glad to read you're doing better. Yes, it's good to be reluctant to change anything at this point. Please hold for a few weeks and see if you can build a solid foundation before continuing your taper. 

 

Targeting Wellbutrin next sounds like a good plan and may help with your sleep (many people find it to be stimulating). 

[Stall]

OK, my med regimen is the same, but a few days ago I stayed up really late and messed my med schedule up. The last few days my anxiety level is higher and I haven't been sleeping. My exercise has fallen off so that may be it, but I just cannot sleep. I am not tired and I just lie in bed, then my mind starts racing. I am not really sure what this is. Everything was good and now this. I know I should get in a good place before I start decreasing the wellbutrin, but I think its causing the sleep and anxiety issue. My therapist suggest I get a psychiatrist, but I think most people know how that conversation goes. I really feel like transitioning from 100 mg of SR to IR so I can at least begin to decrease the wellbutrin. Also, I dont really have a good plan for how to approach it. I read the tips for wellbutrin, but it is kind of confusing. My plan is switch the SR to IR take 50 mg three times a day, hold for a week or so then start decreasing. Although, I am hesitant to do it since that may just increase my suffering.

[Stall]

Yes, last nights/this mornings anxiety level were off the charts.  I had to take a hydroxyzine, which helped but I still only slept 2 hours. Truly, disturbing how anxious I was. I am not certain what to do. I was thinking instead of transitioning the wellbutrin from SR to IR OR maybe I can start tapering the  current IR dose. Not sure if thats a good idea, feedback wanted.

[Stall]

Still looking for some feedback on my situation/tapering.

[ChessieCat]

On 6/17/2019 at 7:27 PM, Shep said:

Please hold for a few weeks and see if you can build a solid foundation before continuing your taper. 

 

[Songbird]

On 6/22/2019 at 11:46 AM, Stall said:

Yes, last nights/this mornings anxiety level were off the charts.  I had to take a hydroxyzine, which helped but I still only slept 2 hours. Truly, disturbing how anxious I was. I am not certain what to do. I was thinking instead of transitioning the wellbutrin from SR to IR OR maybe I can start tapering the  current IR dose. Not sure if thats a good idea, feedback wanted.

 

I would suggest doing some relaxation exercises to help calm your nervous system.  If anxiety is very high it can be helpful to do them several times a day.

See:  Relaxation exercises, guided meditations, calming videos, sleep hypnosis

[jen84]

Hi @Stall, I am also currently tapering wellbutrin. I can relate to so much of what you write about regarding the anxiety! Holy mackerel, its brutal! I recently had a 6 month hold to let my anxiety ease, on a scale of 1-10, my anxiety was a 15! Through the roof! After the long hold I'm much better, it still comes and goes but not near as bad. Anyways, I just wanted to let you know youre not alone in this wellbutrin journey. I hope you keep stabilizing and the anxiety eases up for you soon. 

 

If you have coverage or can afford it, I would highly recommend acupuncture! Its been a life saver for me.

[Stall]

On 6/22/2019 at 9:40 PM, ChessieCat said:

 

Thanks, I will look into the acupuncture. Yeah, the anxiety was at 10 cant imagine it being 15! I had a brief anxiety resurgence shortly after my last post, but the last few weeks I have had significantly less anxiety, sometimes bordering on calm! Go figure. I guess the wisest thing would be to hold on tapering anything. Also, thanks, songbird and chessiecat  for the replies

[ChessieCat]

Acupuncture - Posts #6 & #8 (not detox or stimulation)

[Stall]

Update: Recently, the pharmacy switched my bupropion IR from one generic to another. I tried to find another pharmacy that has Sandoz bupropion that I am used to, to no avail. So I saved my last Sandoz bupropion tablet [I take 50 mg of IR daily] and quartered it. I also quartered the new generic Heritage. I mixed the two for four days at first it was a little difficult, but by the fourth day I was fine. No withdrawal effects at all. I then fully switched to the Heritage bupropion 50 mg IR. The first night I had really vivid dreams and a spectactular headache. The last for days have been marginally better, but I have an all around feeling of malaise and a constant dull headache. So no matter what I do I seem to be in some sort of trouble with meds and it sucks. I really dont know what to do other than continue to take the new generic and wait it out. Not sure if there is anything I can do to help with the transition.

 

What I find strange is that at the stage where I was taking 25mg of sandoz and 25 mg of heritage I was fine, but as soon as I fully switched it hit me almost immediately. So frustrating.

[manymoretodays]

Stall,

If you still have some of the old 1/4 ed, as well as the new.  Go back and do a longer "crossover".

This is what we usually advise:

3/4 old with 1/4 new  hold for 3-7 days

1/2 old with 1/2 new hold for 3-7 days

1/4 old with 3/4 new  hold for 3-7 days

Then to all new

 

Go back to 1/2 and 1/2 , if that's where you felt good.  Hold there for a full week- 7 days.

Then to 1/4 old and 3/4 new, hold for 7 days

Then to all new.  Hopefully that will ease the transition.

 

It might help.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[Stall]

17 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Stall,

If you still have some of the old 1/4 ed, as well as the new.  Go back and do a longer "crossover".

This is what we usually advise:

3/4 old with 1/4 new  hold for 3-7 days

1/2 old with 1/2 new hold for 3-7 days

1/4 old with 3/4 new  hold for 3-7 days

Then to all new

 

Go back to 1/2 and 1/2 , if that's where you felt good.  Hold there for a full week- 7 days.

Then to 1/4 old and 3/4 new, hold for 7 days

Then to all new.  Hopefully that will ease the transition.

 

It might help.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Yeah, I am completely out of the old generic. It would be nice if I had some but I dont. I thought four days would be good and it was till i had to switch over. Im too exhausted to try to run down the old generic too. Ive called 5 to 6 places and its the same thing. "not available".

[Stall]

So I had a Dr. appointment today about seemingly [head pain] unrelated issue. I then explained my situation with the bupropion and difficulty switching generics. I had a thought about prior authorized medication and asked her if she could request the pharmacy give me a specific generic for bupropion. She gave me an rx with that request and was prepared to fill out the prior authorization paperwork if necessary. I went to the pharmacy and presented it all to them and they agreed to order sandoz bupropion.  

I am really not sure that prior authorization is necessary since that has to do with the insurance not being willing to foot the bill for a specific med, but my conversation with the pharmacist and the Dr. requesting a specific generic persuaded her to ask the person in charge of ordering the medications to make an exception in my case. However he is gone for the weekend. So hopefully this Monday I will have my prescription filled with my old generic. My cynical self says it probably wont be Monday, but I am keeping my fingers crossed. Its irritating since I relayed my concerns about switching generics to the same pharmacist and they fell on deaf ears a few weeks ago.

[Stall]

Okay, here is an update. Once again the pharmacy is unable to get the preferred bupropion IR generic I am used to and once again I am scrambling to try to cope.The manufacturer, Sandoz, is currently not producing the drug. Its not discontinued, but production is halted. I called them and confirmed this. So this means I have to switch generics. Luckily, 10 days before the RX ran out I called to see if they had Sandoz bupropion in stock and I found out they did not. Currently, I have the remnants of another generic, Heritage, from the last time this happened. I quartered it and a Sandoz pill and took them together, 50 mg total. The problem is Heritage brand doesn't get along with me. When I take it I feel like I had a pot of coffee. Sandoz has no such effect on me, but the 25 mg of Heritage does. So I decided to try another brand, Apotex. My body seems to tolerate it better than the Heritage bupropion. Essentially, with the remaining Sandoz I can effectively transition to the Apotex for 12 days by quartering each generic.

 

I also have another option, I can get 75 mg tabs of Mylan bupropion, and start tapering off of the 50 mg dose by halving a 75 mg pill. This would decrease the total daily dose by 12.5 mg. I kind of want to do this because I am sick and tired of jumping from generic to generic and dealing with the difficulty that it causes. My intention is to completely eliminate the IR and be done with the generic merry go round.

However, I have read somewhere on this forum that its not a good idea to make multiple changes to medications at once, i.e. change brands and change the dose at the same time. I imagine the safe route would be to transition to Apotex bupropion at the same 50 mg dose and then switch to the 75 mg Mylan bupropion in the future when I want to start tapering. I hope this post is not too convoluted. I am taking suggestions if anyone wished to offer any thoughts.