☼ Wilma78: mirtazapine abrupt withdrawal due health problems

[wilma78]

Ps I seem to have similar problem to last ti.e with my stomach I keep gagging like I have heart burn... but its not heart burn and I can't feel myself swallow like b4 and i feel i neex to keep clearing my throat. anyone else experience this on this drug? Very odd was just feeling despondent at how I feel but a good window just snapped in breaking the wave down in reminding myself I have had a good window of over 2 WEEKS!! so be it not all 100% good but near enough. Also quite bizarrely my stomach is playing up and my doomy head feeling has lifted!!! Slighty Wow I can see my people feel so jeckle and hyde and paranoid in withdrawal... In a way I can see this quick changes as a positive because before each symptom was lasting half days compared to hours now.. so is this good? Is this what I think someone said previously on my poststhat sysymptoms are shorter and less severe in a wave?

[wilma78]

Todays update..... from a less anxious me!!

 

I decided to stick at my 2.6mg dose and today has been fine so far :-) been mainly ok most of day and the motion sickness and head ache only just kicked in.

I even managed to take my little one out forcthe morning which on a higher dose and even on my last reduction of this med I wouldn't have dreamed of doing.

[Petunia]

Hi Wilma,

Thank you for updating, sorry I didn't reply sooner.  I'm glad you are feeling better, its best not to keep switching doses up and down, so staying at 2.6mg was a good decision, as Alto previously wrote:

 

Let's see how you're doing. I'm thinking reductions after 2.5mg might be 0.1mg every week or so.

 

Do keep us updated how you are doing.

 

Petu.

[wilma78]

Hi petu

Thanks for replying. I have stuck at the 2.6mg dose. Day 5 I think it is without checking. Feeling quite rough this morning feeling sicky, achy, seized like muscles (seized muscles ease as drug wears off during day!) Head feels odd again and I feel tearful and little low on and off but I am due my period any day.

 

Still get these muscle flickers? Think I'm in a bit of a wave again today but as symptoms are weaker I question is this a wave?! And I need to keep reminding myself it is or other worries set in.

 

Since starting this medication I was refered to a neurologist for the muscle flickers etc. I saw one this week and he feels the medication has caused the flickers and weakness etc hence my question did anyone else get this? He is 99% sure I have no underlying health problem but I will has a head scan just to check. One thing he did say was I should just stop the mirtazapine overnight!!! I think this is why I did a bigger drop than the .2mg as suggested as I needed to see if it was in my head as suggested by him but clearly not with the side effects I experienced again. I wonder if he would have the dame opinion if he had ever taken this drug himself!!

[wilma78]

Ps. Feeling quite agigtated with this last drop and quite short fused and moody. I am due a period but do any ladies on here notice you are more hormonal in withdrawal?

[wilma78]

In a bad wave again I guess... feeling very sick with head aches and glandy neck and achy body... all these, symsymptoms are on and off.. feel generally unwell with zero energy. I have been sleeping well up until last night I kept jerking awake then had adrenaline surges again with a very high heart rate jyst lieing down again?

[mlrp]

Hi, Wilma,

 

I am sorry you are having a rough time of it. I definitely believe hormones are a factor. My most recent wave (I think the worst of it has passed - I'm kind of drifting in general malaise right now) started with physical symptoms that I was about to have a period despite being (I believe) well into menopause.

 

Have you looked into your current supplementation? The vitamin b complex may be quite activating and could be contributing to muscle twitches. And echinacea can cause the very flu-like symptoms they are meant to supress. I am very conservative with supplementation - sticking mainly with magnesium and fish oil. And if I add a supplement, I start on a very low dose - lower than recommended - see how my body reacts and go from there.

 

Plus, omeprazole can do more harm than good - as I believe I found out the hard way. Here's a thread on the topic... http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2533-that-acid-reflux-pill-may-be-causing-your-health-problems/

 

Wishing you increasing recovery...

[wilma78]

Thanks for reply mlrp. The sickness has only just subsided after taking my mirtazapine... the thought of food was making me gagg all day until then. I have had groiny period pains but no period... just like pregnancy sickness. As for supplements I only take two tiny drops of my kids strength vit b and stopped echinacea and all other supplements. Guessing my body is adjusting to this new dose! I know I need to stick at this dose and ride it out but I have been feelinglow and anxious today... keep telling myself yr horhormonal and in a bad withdrawal wave lol.

Thanks for the link I will cgeck it out tomorrow :-) wishing you an increasing recovery too :-)

[mlrp]

Hang tough, Wilma! We're all in this together. 

[wilma78]

Felt and feel really low today. .. scared I have depression low. ... I know this is the last reduction but I am struggling to accept that its day 8 on this lower dose and I feel worse depression wise and sickness wise as opposed to feeling a lot better after 5 days on my previous drop! I think this drop was too much... I am tempted to go back up again to stop this low feeling but if I ride it out the low feeling will lift? I only did this bigger drop than asvised on here because itcwas suggested by the consultant I saw... wish I had just done altos sugessted dose but I can't change it now.

[coolranger]

Get well soon and good luck wilma. I will pray for you.

[wilma78]

Bless you coolranger. I will pray for you too. I hit a good window an hour ago which has given me hope. So thank you for your prayer :-) just hope I wake up in a good window :-) this withdrawal business is so up and down. I have confidence my symptoms are withdrawal as I wouldn't have had a 3 week ling good window... my positive for today :-)

[wilma78]

Day 10 on this 2.60mg still struggling with low mood.. I feel it's got to be chemically induced low mood because before this med I could always pick my mood up easy with my happy things... however I feel so flat at times.. I know this is a withdrawal symptom but one I am really struggling with... and my anxious worrying mind isn't helping me :-(

[mlrp]

Wilma, I very much agree with you. It's so challenging at times not to become convinced that the "neuro-emotions" are our own, organic emotions. I have been living with a diagnosis of "major depressive disorder" for the last year and half when, in fact, the truth of the matter was that I was probably just traumatized and sleep deprived. Yes, I've had major sorrow and mourning about the relationship issue that brought me to that point but, like you, for 52 years I was resilient and wise enough to nurse myself through my "lows," and had an unshakeable optimism in the face of many tragic situations.

 

It's only since going on ADs that I have struggled with the "major depressive disorder" they labeled me with as they were prescribing the pills. This many months later and I am finally beginning to really piece together the puzzle. I'm even planning on going back to whatever journal I may have been keeping at the onset of my trauma to forensically chart what happened when in terms of my mental/emotional issues and subsequent psychiatric "care."

 

Don't give in to the "neuro-emotions." You know, inside, who the real you is. It will get better. Pullin' for ya!

[wilma78]

Thanks mlrp. Sorry you had such trauma to deal with :-( but your confidence radiates now :-) are you tapering off of mirtazapine yet? Even thought I was suffering with low mood and anxiety from the extremely stressful 2 years and ill health I was more confident and felt me still. .. on this drug and now tapering I get windows of me and 3 weeks being my longest before this last taper so I hold onto that positive thought to keep me riding this wave. U keep smiling :-)

[wilma78]

I need some support. ... had this depressed mood all day and fuzzy head... it seems to have lifted a little now as it did the same time yesterday about 20 hours after taking my last mirt dose... do I need to up it? As the .60mg drop was too much.or is this my body and head saying I need to drop more.. its been 12 days now with no windows last couple of days.... or do I ridecthis out? I find myself questioning do I need am antidepressant but taking these thoughts as its the drug and my brain playing tricks on me with the withdrawal :-(

[mlrp]

HI, Wilma, 

 

I'm really not knowledgeable enough to suggest what to do about your doses - perhaps a moderator or others with more experience will offer some thoughts. 

 

My gut tells me that your instinct is right - self-doubt about our tapering seems to be a classic neuro-emotion caused by w/d.

 

In the windows and waves pattern of recovery, the waves can tend to outnumber the windows, at least in the beginning. I've been dealing with reinstatement of Wellbutrin since May and have probably only had a handful of actual windows in all that time - the longest one being about two weeks, and the others lasting anywhere from only 10 minutes to a few hours. Some have it easier than this, and many have more of a challenge. 

 

This isn't meant to depress you further, but only to say that this is a long, difficult road you've embarked upon and staying the course will be challenging. But you are not alone - we are all on this journey together. Better days do eventually come along - and in time, they will outnumber the bad days.

 

On the bad days, it is sometimes a matter of just keeping your head down and putting one foot in front of the other, so to speak. Take extra care to be especially gentle with yourself during down times, too - whatever feels comforting to you - warm baths, gentle walks, listening to guided meditations, etc. During a wave is no time to push yourself any more than you have to.

 

Personally, I would do absolutely everything in my power NOT to return to ADs and to eventually come off of them completely. This is because I know myself well enough to know that this is not who I am and the drugs are to blame. 

 

I don't know how helpful this is for you, actually  I don't want to be discouraging, but rather to let you know that this feels difficult for you because it is! But that is not to say that it can't be done  - many, many of us are tapering and succeeding  and you can, too!

 

**<healing thoughts sent your way>**

[wilma78]

Thank mlrp :-) healing thoughts yr way too x

[Petunia]

Hi Wilma,

How are you feeling now? 

 

It can take several weeks, sometimes longer to stabilize after a cut, especially as the dose gets lower.  As the dose gets lower, the cuts need to be smaller, that's why we recommend 10% of the current dose.  The charts from the study one this post explain why:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6036-why-taper-paper-demonstrates-importance-of-gradual-change-in-plasma-concentration/

 

This is just withdrawal and will settle down eventually, do what you can to take care of yourself as mlrp suggested.

 

Petu.

[wilma78]

Hi all.

 

Sorry for not replying sooner I have been struggling on and off but trying to use my Windows wisely.

 

Since my last post I struggled with 2.6mg drop for 2 weeks... my worst time being with depression around my menstrual cycle. After 2 weeks I found I was so fuzzy headed and was struggling with concentration I decided it was my body telling me to do snother drop... so 10 days ago I dropped by .20mg and have currently been on 2.40 mg for 10 days. After this last drop I started waking up in the morning not do flat " this flat feeling I hate" and the fuzzy head lifted up until 2 days ago where upon I have been feeling very low and depressed and panicy... with a fuzzy head.. sickness and adrenalin surges again!! I once again founf myself today questioning if I need an antidepressant with my bad low mood that has followed me into this evening :-( the adrenaline surges ate aweful but I prefer thise to this depressed feeling. Logically I tell myself this is a wave and is chemically I induced but once again I question this like I have on all the waves before, however the difference being I sm noticing symptoms alot more on this low dose. I feel I should try ride thid 2.4mg dose out longer this time to give the depressionpart of the wwithdrawal a chsnce to balance out... but this spaced out feeling is so hard with a toddler.

 

How you doing petu? Sorry once again for delayed reply. .. along side bad waves I have had a lot of familysstress to deal with, a house move looking to happen in a month or so, a family death ( funeral next week) and a virus so I've been quite run down again! Xx

 

Ps I have a head scan and carpel tunnel test next week plus I have been refered to the breast clinic so lots of apps to contend with.

[wilma78]

Todays update...

 

Wow... after waking at 4am with really bad depression and anxiety the tears the fears the fuzzy frazzled brain and sickness lasted until 9.30pm where suddenly the pendulum aligned itself and it all lifted like switching the light on... and into a window... I can't believe how it just changes. .. even my mum said wow you couldn't write about it! Just taken 2.40mg fose for tonight so hoping this window lasts!!! Lol I have however hot a tight feeling at the back of my head since the dose but hey ho I'll take that instead of the 'chemical depression'

 

Is how I describe above how windows kinda happen?

[wilma78]

Feeling low really scared I have depression. .. is this normal?

[wilma78]

Tonight I feel I am freaking out... I feel so scared my mind is turning to mush. .. I took paracetamol and a seaplasma a couple of hours ago and feel odd now... I am scared is this still withdrawal... my heart rate is elevating up and down and I have had trouble focusing all day...... ease someone tell me this is normal for withdrawals. ... its been 11 days since my last .20mg drop I am scared I might loose my mind... I hate rhis feeling.

[wilma78]

Feeling low again today.... my brain also feels pickled! Like its been in a blender. I think I have tapered too quickly! Have I done damage? This depression feeling scares me. Do I need to ride it out or up my dose? Please someone? When you taprr quick does it cause depression as well as the other anxiety zaps and sickness and numbness. Scared I won't stabilise again... but I know for sure I will taper even slower and longer :-(

[mammaP]

Hi Wilma, sorry you are feeling so bad. You said it's 11 days since the .20mg drop, what was the dose before the drop? 

 

The depression will be withdrawal and I am certain it is a wave and will pass. It is really hard to cope with but does pass.

I hope you feel better very soon. 

[wilma78]

Mammp hi :-) thank you for replying xx

 

The dose before was 2.60mg but I had only been on that for 3 weeks and before that it was 3.20mg again for 3 weeks. Looking at this I can see the tapers are too quick and the 3.20mg to 2.60mg was too big and after that I was flat and thought I was listening to my body and did the .20mg 11 days ago! I had a week of a good window and then this low mood and anxiety kicked in. I need to stabilize again don't I??? Do ypu think these drops were too quick?

 

I so silly.. my anxiety to get off the drug has clouded my judgement. .. I am what you call an askhole!!! I ask for advice then do my own thing.... I am certainly gonns take advice and stand by it now.

 

The depression has lifted a little after 8.30pm so a little relief. How are u mammap? Your response has calmed me thank you xx

[mammaP]

Glad you are feeling a bit better this evening Wilma. A good long hold is in order I think! 

 

It is so hard not to cut when you are feeling ok, I did it myself and paid the price. It seems to be a part of withdrawal,

the "I have to cut again" and "I must get off now"  but we really have to learn not to take any notice. It is so different

to withdrawing from other drugs, when people crave the drug they are trying to get off and would do anything to get

some more of that drug. With AD's it's a craving to get away from it and many actually feel physically sick at the

thought of taking it, the desire to be rid of it is so strong. 

 

I am fine thanks Wilma, had a few bleak days but that's the way it goes, windows and waves, waiting patiently to 

stabilise for another drop. I'm not as impatient as I was, and hold for months in between. I am functioning better

so I'm not bothered about holding 

[wilma78]

A good long hold ot is then mamma :-)

 

I was functioning brill on 3.20mg so I am listening to what you say :-)

 

I think the need to get off the drug quick is so I don't miss out more of my baby and his growing up but hey if I stabilize I drop at a slow steady pace at least I can function more for him as opposed to the last three days of being a zombie.

Bless you mammap x

[wilma78]

Not doing good again.. I feel extremely depressed I just want it to stop.. all my fight seems to have gone.. Ihhaven't even had the energy to log on here. I picked up for a day and half then the low mood set in again. I have been sleeping until last night I was jerking awakeevery hour. This mmorning I feel flat and had underlying anxiety I guess as my mind was whizzing into the next conversation in my head before I had finished thinking the last one felt like I was going mad with the random stuff?.. I just hate this not being able to function and think straight and the not caring feeling... I have never experienced this and it scares me... I struggle to even crack a smile and everything that should make me happy I feel blank... please is this all normal as can be with withdrawal as I feel so frightened I am loosing my mind. I feel a little relieved when I can cry, I feel such a bad mum not being able to focus and my 2 yr old seeing me cry and not with it. I think the last two drops have thrown me off track... would someone advise going back up on my mirtazapine to improve my mood or try stick this out? Will it level off. Sorry I feel like a broken record but the people aroynd me are understanding but I am so scared. Off food as well.

[Petunia]

Hi Wilma,

I'm sorry you having increased symptoms, it does sound like a wave caused by withdrawal from tapering too fast.  If you keep holding, in time it will settle down again, but I can't say how long it will take.  I think its been about 16 days since you did your last cut, its not unusual to still be having some symptoms at 16 days.  You could give it a bit more time, think in terms of weeks and months, rather than days, or if the symptoms are too much to handle, you could updose slightly.

 

If you allow yourself to become stable and then taper very slowly and carefully, you will be able to enjoy your baby and taper at the same time.

 

Petu.

[wilma78]

Thanks for quick reply petu. I am also due a period? The symptoms did settle for a day or so but have returned really bad depression and worry wise.. I just looked in my diary the drop was 16 days ( thank u for seeing this :-) the first 5 days were fine but this wave has been 11 days with that one good day inbetween... I am so tempted to increase a little but my partner booked a holiday yesterday to fly out is 6 days so this has really worried me too as opposed to feeling happy about it.... my brain is so bad I can't remember a thing! Is a long bad wave like this normal? I just don't know what to do with myself as previous waves have been short and I was happier :-(

Hope u r ok today

[wilma78]

Do the waves get harder the lower the dose? I think I have been fortunate so far with my waves.

[wilma78]

felt better yesterday afternoon and today until family stress but adrenalin surges still kicking in and elevated heart rate...and electric lip zaps I call them so my head feels fuzzy alot... I feel generally washed out. At least my heart rate is not going up to 120+ as I have lowered the dose. I find sugar elevates it up to that but in general I am avoiding sugar. Depressive mood has lifted alot but I think that was more menstrual heightened by withdrawal.. the flat feeling I think is withdrawal. In general do people notice withdrawal plays around with blood sugar levels?

[Petunia]

If you are having small windows, that's a good sign that you are starting to stabilize. People generally do better in withdrawal by avoiding sugar, alcohol and caffeine, so its good you are not using sugar.

 

Do the waves get harder the lower the dose? I think I have been fortunate so far with my waves.

 

Yes, this can happen. 

This article shows why its important to taper slowly at low doses, the charts begin at page 4.

 

The Science Behind Slow Tapering at Low Doses

 

Are you doing 10% drops, if you find that the withdrawal symptoms are unbearable, then you could start doing 5%.  But continue to hold until you are feeling better before making another cut.

 

I noticed that you are taking B vitamins, they can sometimes be too stimulating for people in withdrawal.

[wilma78]

Very delayed response due to lots of stress and problems and the first chance I have had to get on here.

Thanks petu for response again.

I am still currently on 2.40mg and amongst all my personal problems I have faced since I last posted I believe I have stablized and I have coped with the stress I faced these last few weeks very well.

 

Will update on my next drop I guess

[Petunia]

Thanks for letting us know you have stabilized, I'm happy to hear that.  Please do keep us updated.