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Marriages destroyed by SSRI SNRI - Topix

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btdt

And really PO at being lied to... some days it was only that anger that seen me thru... I was not going to let them win in completely destroying me. The jury is still out... long term ramifications persist. All that said I have felt well and really well compared to early wd... life does not wait for us to recover and it takes years still... this is the lot ... the hand dealt making the best of it is not for the faint of heart. 

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Idecidedtolive

Thanks btdt. I went searching for that "some things I have noticed" ?? But came up empty. I did read the thread covering the controversy over the Paxil Progress shut down as many of the members found there way to this site ( including yourself I see. I read a lot of the archived "success stories" that somebody managed to retrieve there but couldn't find anything on the initial horror stories. Not sure if you might have any more suggestions?

The more I read the more I find myself thinking about just how deep and widespread this is. Even the voices who are speaking out , like David Healy, understandably confine the question within scientifically provable parameters. I have read his articles proving essentially a doubling of suicide risk with SSRIs vs Placebo or vs tricyclics, but I find myself thinking a lot about my own suicidal ideations and really wondering how much deeper this problem goes!? How could one possibly study the question " what percentage of people have their lives utterly destroyed by SSRIs" ? What would be the timeframe? 3 months for me! And even that seems to be beyond the scope of any industry funded research! It's incredible the more I read about it just how short term and seemingly deliberately rigged most of this research is. But yeah, I find myself thinking about this - If there is a doubling of actual completed suicides , many of which seem to come early in 'treatment' and I would assume this most extreme reaction represents the tip of an iceberg, how big is the iceberg? It seems like all these anecdotal reports are really the only way to get any idea of that, and how many people who quickly discontinue SSRI use early in treatment do so because they recognise the warning signs ? Just recoil from the early physical torment and save themselves the greater destruction later?

I know this is probably all useless conjecture but I really do wonder.

I just finished reading Anatomy of An Epidemic. Brilliant, terrifying , breathtaking stuff.

Anyway, thanks btdt... You are doing good work here!! I'm very grateful!

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Idecidedtolive

I also want to share a dream I had last night. An insight into my mind for what little it is worth :-/

It was very striking because I do not often have extremely vivid dreams that I remember this clearly . Perhaps it is self indulgent to share it but I feel like I want to write it down so I hope that's okay .

I had my kids with me last night and I had trouble getting to sleep long after they were down. I got up twice and read for a while and went back and tried again. It was about 1.30 I think when I finally got to sleep.

I woke up in my dream in a familiar house, not my own or any real place I have been but familiar , known to me , rooms all over the place and people I haven't seen for years, old friends , cousins, my parents and complete strangers, people waking up and emerging from doors. Some I was pleased to see , though there was no conversation , just feelings associated with each new face, happiness, guilt, discomfort , I was pleased to see my parents I'm sure they would be glad to know! But it kept getting more and more crowded the further I went through this house and it reached the huge room at the back of the house ( think aircraft hanger lol- and I know that room for sure ! I am sure I have spent a lot of time there before in my dreams) huge huge, and more and more people kept coming in , gearing up for a party it seemed, and I was getting more and more nervous surrounded by all these strangers drinking and being loud and obnoxious and I was becoming really aware that my kids were back in my room alone. I started asking people what they were doing here but they would just grin at me and refuse to answer, like it was a big surprise party for my benefit but I couldn't be told the reason for it. It was all getting busier and faster and louder and more and more people coming in, and I remember seeing my Dad looking at me with dismay that I was having this big party with all this craziness and the guilt that my children were there in the house exposed to all this.

I was getting more and more panicked, asking people what they are doing here and who organised this , and finally snapping and starting to tell people to leave. " this is my house . Get out!" And some people reluctantly going , some just laughing at me, others just running away to some other room, and me just screaming "GET OUT!" And trying to get back through the crowds to find my kids.

That's when I woke up about 3 am. And my daughter right there with her hand on my face fast asleep. I lay there looking at her and cried for a while before I went back to sleep. But I know that huge room. I know I have spent a lot of time in there in my dreams - and I think just since all this began . Maybe it's me taking control now. Telling the strangers to get out of my brain. I didn't invite them and they have no business being in my brain. I hope so. Ah, Sigmund Freud , where are you when I need you lol?

Thanks for listening.

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btdt

 Freud? The man who said some of his patients kids... were sexually abuse only to change his mind and say the kids were fantasizing about sex with their abusers

 Once he figured out if he were to be paid he would be paid for his services for the most part by the abusers... Wa La new diagnosis... Does this remind you of anything... pharma paying for all the studies and the those conducting the studies finding the results pharma wants... just to spoon feed you as I don't know how much you have read.  

There is also Breggin and Glenmullen's books and one I .liked that does not get much lip service is 

Our Daily Drugs. by a lady whos name I forget. 

As for the dream you know the answers you don't need a doc. 

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Idecidedtolive

Lol btdt. You are right of course. I just posted about the dream because it is so unusual for me to have such a vivid dream that I remember with such clarity and the meaning was very clear for me. All the frantic unwanted guests are a perfect metaphor for me of the countless useless neural paths that I now believe were being burned into my brain by that poison. I suppose I should count myself lucky that I instinctively or maybe just accidentally got off it relatively quickly, but the destruction of everything I had built in the previous 10 years is a bloody painfully high price to pay.

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btdt

A common theme you will see if you hang around wd sites much the price is high it reminds me of a song 

 

"Go to him now, he calls you, you can't refuse

When you ain't got nothing, you got nothing to lose
You're invisible now, you've got no secrets to conceal 

How does it feel, ah how does it feel?
To be on your own, with no direction home

 

It reminds me of that but it reminds me of a lot of other things too all the hanging on suffering fighting back trying to learn and research trying to find an answer endless hours on the net searching for elusive answers countless doctors city after city when I was well enough to do it ...worse when I was well enough and wondered if I would just die quietly should I ever be graced with sleep and he questioning God as to why this was happening to me... and the trusting God to take me when the time came. 

 

Ya I know about it some. 

 

Do you feel lucky I don't know in one respect you are you found this place and are not alone got of fast another step up.. it is not easy and nobody who has lived thru this would ever say it is no matter how short your drug use a fast recovery now that would be lucky...hope for that. 

peace

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mylifeisback

It has been 3 years now that my husband went cold turkey off of Celexa, he is having nightmares he has them around the same time every morning around 4 a.m. he can not sleep afterwards he does not have these every night but he has them several times a week how long do the nightmares last?

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hurtspouse

Hi everyone. I just need a bit of insight. My SO is 9 months off of Paxil now. His feelings have yet to return although he is a lot calmer now. I was just wondering when will the manic type of urges go away? I accidentally found that he's still looking at swinging type of sites. He never hides it well at all. And now I'm crying again wondering if this torture will ever end?? Is his behaviour post ssri's abnormal? Is this really who he is and I was just too blind to see it before the pills? I'm also thinking what else could he be doing that I don't know about. This is consuming my life!

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btdt

Hi everyone. I just need a bit of insight. My SO is 9 months off of Paxil now. His feelings have yet to return although he is a lot calmer now. I was just wondering when will the manic type of urges go away? I accidentally found that he's still looking at swinging type of sites. He never hides it well at all. And now I'm crying again wondering if this torture will ever end?? Is his behaviour post ssri's abnormal? Is this really who he is and I was just too blind to see it before the pills? I'm also thinking what else could he be doing that I don't know about. This is consuming my life!

I am not at all sure what you would call a normal wd but manic urges can be sexual but many folks who stop drugs have no sexual feeling at all and are numb some I have heard have no interest in sex because of this and others are even more interested because of the lack of feeling they think of it more and worry about it. 

 

Personally I did a lot of walking and cleaning :) I know it is not funny but each person is so different if you can talk to him about it maybe that is your best bet... 

 

A lot of spouses have made that same comment btw ... were they always like this and I did not see it... and the answer for the most part has been no the drugs changed them... and the change is so profound and your so stressed it is hard to keep a lid on things... take time out for yourself too.. there are two people here you need to be able to clear your mind and relax too. 

peace

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hurtspouse

Hi btdt, I apologise for not replying sooner, I didn't get a notification. Thanks for your reply. This whole situation is so confusing. SO is now extremely loving to our daughter again and loves spending as much time with her as possible, but just treats me like a friend. His mother said that he is more loving to her again too. So perhaps his feelings for me really have gone for good, as his feelings for everyone else seem to be returning. Even our dog!! I just don't understand what I've done wrong. I feel so sad.

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Idecidedtolive

Hello everyone. I stayed away for a while hoping that my wife would come and talk to some of you about this. The understanding I gained here before Christmas has really helped me to finally start turning my life around. I started taking daily Vitamin D, magnesium, zinc, calcium, Omega 3 fish oil ( does it really have to be the size of small egg ?:-/ ) , B12 and Ginseng. I have about halved my smoking and reduced my drinking dramatically. I got a job 3 weeks ago and am doing really well ( may be in line for a pretty quick pay increase and promotion too if the expected personnel changes play out the way it seems to be heading ), I'm eating better too and getting some exercise , all positive stuff.

Now for the bad news. My wife filed for divorce. I'm devastated. But if this had happened 3 months ago I don't think I would be typing these or any other words here today. I think it's wrong. I'm finally forgiving myself and battling to fix myself and more in love with my wife and children than I have been in almost 2 years and now this. (Expletive deleted )

Still , I have worked out how to beat the panic attacks that crippled me for so long and I'm doing pretty incredible things with this knowledge. ( at least they are incredible from the perspective of my recent baseline of suicidal despair !) I have said it before and I will say it again . THANKYOU !

HurtSpouse. I don't know whether this is relevant to your situation. It certainly is a great sign that your partner is showing progress in his emotions towards your daughter . I spent so long in grief and despair and though my feelings of love for my family returned quickly when I escaped the poison, I just didn't believe until very recently that I actually deserved to be forgiven or that my wife ever would. Is it possible that he feels that way? Maybe that's not it , but I think even healthy humans construct false realities and modes of behaviour to explain and cope with trauma, and from my recent experience it is even more true for victims of pharmaceutical personality assassination. There is a certain comfort in believing you are powerless to change the very thing that is most important to you. I don't know if that makes sense at all, but my recovery has been a long twisted dark process , I knew what I want a long time ago but I had no idea where I was or how to get where I want to be! So I did all sorts of things wrong while I was stumbling around blindly. Acted wrong, said things wrong. I don't know, maybe he is just struggling still to figure out who he is!?

I wish you all well.

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hurtspouse

I have been wondering how you had been getting on idecidedtolive. I am so very sorry to hear that your wife has filed for divorce. I would be more than willing to talk to her if she'd be open to it? I can pm you my email address if you'd like to pass it on to her. Just let me know.

 

I think you might be right about my partners thought process. I bumped into his mother the other day and she said 'could you get over his behaviour, while he was on AD's?' I replied that I would at least like to try as I do love him still. I think she must have told him as he came over this evening and brought a takeaway for us all. We played card games with the kids and was having lots of fun and laughter. It was honestly the most happy and relaxed we have all been in each other's company for years! I wanted to hug him as he was leaving and had to stop myself. But just seeing that glimpse of the man I fell in love with was amazing. I hope to see more of him in time

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btdt

Hi btdt, I apologise for not replying sooner, I didn't get a notification. Thanks for your reply. This whole situation is so confusing. SO is now extremely loving to our daughter again and loves spending as much time with her as possible, but just treats me like a friend. His mother said that he is more loving to her again too. So perhaps his feelings for me really have gone for good, as his feelings for everyone else seem to be returning. Even our dog!! I just don't understand what I've done wrong. I feel so sad.

I have been away so forgive me if I am all wet and missing something but the obvious to me is sex... intimacy with a partner involves sex and a special type of intimacy which is related to oxytocin a chemical released at orgasm and childbirth to bond folks to their kids and spouse partner ect.... 

 

These drugs mess with this and our sex drive and sexual feelings... partner drug taker will be confused why those feelings are not there and it can mess a lot with their own idenity it is a big deal see... helen fisher for oxy stuff 

 

this is my guess off the top of my head sex is a big deal

peace

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hurtspouse

I feel that since he moved in with his parents, he has become even more distant despite me encouraging him to visit often. I've tried to be open without being clingy or pushy. I don't know whether to suggest he moves back home to try to make things work. Ive tried waiting for him to miss us and want to come back home. What do you think?

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mylifeisback

hurtspouse I really feel for you that I'd one thing I did not have to deal with because he never left. The only time we were separated was when he told me he that he had met someone, my reaction was I smashed both of his trucks together. He left for about 2 days and on his way home he wanted to commit suicide and ended up in a mental hospital for a week and then I was in the mental hospital for 7 days that was the only time we were separated. He never wanted to leave me he was just screwed up on drugs. But my advice would be to get him back home because you cannot fix things when he is in one place and you are another. If my husband and I would have been separated we probably would not have made it through. I feel like you have to fight through this together it's going to take awhile there is no overnight solution. I hope my opinion helps.

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hurtspouse

Thanks mylifeisback for your reply. I think you're right. Me and my youngest two miss him so much. I will be seeing him later and will try to talk to him. He didn't want to leave and has said through all this that he loves me still. I just couldn't deal with his behaviour. But he says that he hasn't had any strange urges since december. If this is true, then perhaps I could live with him again.

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TeaBea

I second mylifeisback.  If you want to stay together, you have to be together to work on it.  My husband never indicated he wanted to leave, but at the height of his apathy towards me, "us", or really anything in life, I could've walked out, and my impression was that he would've just let it happen because it would've taken too much effort to do anything other than go with the flow.  He just couldn't muster any "care".  He said way too many times--about anything--"I don't give a sh*t", and he seemed to mean it.  I was so tired of his drinking and apathy and no "affection" after 8 years that I even asked if he wanted out because it seemed like he was sort of leading ME to make that choice for us (not knowing that Effexor and alcohol was responsible for his change).  In hindsight, I'm so glad I didn't walk out, even to "make a statement", because who knows how his Effexor'd mind would've allowed him to respond to me and any reconciliation attempts, etc.  I can only imagine how many relationships end like this because they don't know--and probably never will--that the "bad" partner was/became "bad" because of the meds.  

 

In what little hubby will talk about that time, he says if I'd left back then, he probably would've put a bullet in his head because he was already so miserable that my leaving would've just been the worst.  And from my view at the time, I definitely could see that he would've just drowned himself in more drinking without me around to be a limiting factor in the amount consumed.  My husband has thanked me multiple times for not giving up on him.  It saddens and scares him to hear that I was close to giving up.  He said that even throughout the Effexor brain, he knew he could count on me.  Whether he was happy or not with "us" (thanks to the way SSRIs can sometimes take away the loving feelings for those closest to them), he said he counted on me to always be there.  To know that I ever even entertained otherwise saddens him now.  

 

I still get scared about what he might end up feeling about us each time he takes a step down on the med.  I don't think that at half the lowest dose capsule he is getting any "therapeutic" value from it, but each little step down still causes a lot of grief for us.  Which time might swing the pendulum into a negative state?  We've been holding at his current level for 3 months now and he needs another 2 months of stability to deal with a specific timeline/deadline at work right now.  Decreasing 1 measly bead at a time and currently at 17 beads--it seems like we'll be dealing with this crap forever.  

 

Of course, I don't have kids.  I think that does change a lot because you have to protect them and what they're exposed to.  Only you know if the kids are better off with him there versus not there full time.  

 

Sending good thoughts your way!

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hurtspouse

Thanks teabea. I was planning to speak to him tonight but he's not doing so well today and has a pressure headache. I will just have to wait for a good day to try to talk to him. When I asked him to move out, I was protecting myself and my children. He really was impossible to deal with at the time. But he's been a lot nicer lately. It sounds like your husband is being very sensible about tapering his pills slowly. Hopefully the withdrawals will be minimal as a result. I do wish my partner had tapered slower.

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IHadPassion

I just want to offer my story for the record as a SSRI user.  I took Paxil for two years and am approximately 1.5 years off of it after a rapid taper.  Prior to SSRI's I was what you would call a hopeless romantic.  I would always find an excuse to do something special for my significant other, from all of my past girlfriends to my current wife.  I was empathetic and was always able to mitigate conflict through discussions and reasonable compromise.  Birthdays, anniversaries, random days throughout the year I would go over the top to make them feel special.  I met my wife prior to taking Paxil and she remembers the person I once was.  With respect to my immediate family, I was the kid who couldn't wait for the holidays, valued family time, and did everything I could to keep my relationships with my brothers and mother alive despite living on a different coast. 

 

About 8 months into the Paxil and still to this day, I feel nothing.  No empathy, no sympathy, no attachment, no love....to anything.  My wife, my dog, my immediate family, my career.  Nothing.  At about 10 months on Paxil I became extremely agitated and irritable to anything and everything around me.  Simply holding a brief conversation was painful.  I didn't care if feelings were hurt or relationships were sacrificed.  I became extremely impulsive with food and money among other things.  I couldn't care less what people thought of me or how I made them feel, and to a degree, I still don't.  My wife has stuck with me despite the hell we currently live in.  She's sacrificed more than I could ever ask of her and I continuously feel the guilt of dragging her into this.  She has alluded to separating several times in the last few months which is devastating to me despite my greater indifference to life.  Fortunately we don't have any children.    

 

I'm so angry.  So devastated by the lasting personality changes that are tearing my once ideal life apart.  I imagine that if she does leave me, the situation for me will be dire. 

 

Despite not feeling anything, I can say that I grieve for all the marriages and relationships that these drugs have annihilated.  I recently talked to an old co-worker about my situation and he had an "ahah" moment when I talked about how it's changed who I am at my core.  Apparently his now ex-wife started taking Prozac while they were married and within a year her feelings for him had disappeared and there ended a 10 year marriage.  He was shocked and until now couldn't understand why.  

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TeaBea

THANK YOU so much for your story, IHadPassion.  Even though it's so sad to read and imagine, it helps for the "spouse" to hear the other side, too.  Does your wife understand that it's the Paxil that changed the way you're able/not able to feel?  Perhaps she would benefit from this website.  

 

Do you ever have "windows" where you think you're feeling something again?  

 

I wish you and your wife the very best and hope something good comes your way soon.

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IHadPassion

Yes, she understands it was the drugs that did it, or at least launched me into the current state I'm in.  I don't really experience any windows of relief from the indifference to everything, but the severe irritability and agitation has subsided.  I have retained a sense of humor but that's about it. 

 

Something that has caused a lot of angst, both in my personal life and former professional life is that all my mental "filters" seem to have been removed/damaged.  While I generally live in a depressed, quiet state, when I do get engaged in a conversation, things fly out of my mouth without any prior thought or consideration of how my words will effect those around me which is very unlike the original me.  This correlates with my ongoing issues with Executive Function, short term memory, and 'lack of foresight' that I've been left with since taking Paxil (all associated with damage to the frontal lobe), not to mention the burning, searing headaches I had in my frontal lobe during acute withdrawal.

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btdt

Link to the original first page of the topix marriages destroyed by ssri snri (from a link I guess I found and forgot about I am not sure how to get the rest of the pages but somebody more computer literate than I may be able to find them)  This was an interesting page that evolved over time with a lot of effort of the people affected and a lot of research done by those people but this is the post that started it all 9 years ago.  

The site has been closed but it can apparently be found on the wayback machine 

 

thanks to Roy :)

 

 

Roy
 

Irvine, CA

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I have visited many websites and found accounts where after taking SSRI's/SNRI's, the spouse abruptly determines that he or she is no longer in love with his or her spouse and terminates the marriage. However, I have never found a discussion dedicated exclusively to this topic. It appears that this horrific side effect has been completely ignored by manufacturers, and I have found no research addressing this topic. If you have gone though this nightmare as I have, please tell your story here. I suspect that there are thousands of such stories. If the response to this request is significant in number, I would like to direct the FDA to this discussion.

Thank you.

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btdt

Alcohol Cravings Induced via Increased Serotonin
by Ann Blake Tracy, Director, ICFDA
There is an alarming connection between alcoholism and the various prescription drugs that increase serotonin. The most popular of those drugs are: PROZAC, ZOLOFT, PAXIL, LUVOX, SERZONE, EFFEXOR, ANAFRANIL, and the new diet pills, FEN-PHEN and REDUX. For seven years numerous reports have been made by reformed alcoholics (some for 15 years and longer) who are being "driven" to alcohol again after being prescribed one of these drugs. And many other patients who had no previous history of alcoholism have continued to report an "overwhelming compulsion" to drink while using these drugs.
(A few personal accounts:#1 A young woman, a recovering alcoholic, reported that during the eight month period she had been using Prozac she found it necessary to attend AA meetings every day in order to fight off the strong compulsions to begin drinking again.#2 In the Southeastern United States a middle aged psychologist, also a recovering alcoholic, after being prescribed Prozac, found herself needing to attend AA meetings morning, noon, and night to keep from destroying the sobriety she had achieved.#3 A young father, who was Mormon and had never before in his life used alcohol, found himself drinking Ever Clear and exhibiting bizarre as well as violent behavior, after being prescribed Prozac and Ritalin.#4 A young mother who had never used alcohol before began drinking large amounts within weeks of being prescribed Prozac and quickly found herself committed to a mental institution due to the psychotic behavior that resulted. Added to her Prozac prescription were anti-psychotic meds and electric shock treatments. She then began to experience seizures and was started on anti-seizure meds.#5 A concerned neighbor reported her friend was drinking straight Vodka on a regular basis after being prescribed Zoloft.#6 A daughter reported her father, sober for 15 years, began drinking again on Prozac. The consistant report from these patients has been an "overwhelming craving or compulsion" for alcohol.)
For some time we did not have specific medical documentation to help us understand why this was happening. Could it be that Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, etc., being mood altering substances, were removing the inhibitions that individuals had placed upon themselves to stop their additions? But beyond this mood altering effect of Prozac, etc., there seemed to be a physiological cause for this alcoholic obsession as well. There were reports of people who rarely drank before Prozac, etc., consuming excessive amounts of alcohol after starting usage of these various drugs. For example we have the case of a young newly wed in Southern Utah who was given Prozac for a hormonal imbalance. Before that time she would have two or three social drinks a year, yet soon after being prescribed Prozac she began bringing alcohol home by the case. Many similar reports followed.
Could it be that because these drugs have such a strong adverse effect upon the pancreas [Manufacturer's warnings include such side effects as hypoglycemia, diabetes and pancreatitis.] they are producing a potent disruption in the body's blood sugar balance? This would in turn cause a "craving" for alcohol as the body reaches out for a "quick fix" to raise the blood sugar level thus triggering a vicious self-perpetuating cycle as the alcohol pushes the blood sugar level even lower after the brief high it produces.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20130808064154/http://www.topix.com/forum/drug/effexor/TDP3H8PPCS9QKK77J

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TeaBea

It mentions "craving".  My husband definitely had that, but in addition to that was that on Effexor, he could NOT tell he was (getting or was) drunk.  Maybe he wouldn't have been able to stop the drinking by that point because of the "compulsion" to drink, but PRE-Effexor, he could.

 

Another strange thing.  If it wasn't the alcohol he was after (maybe because I got "in the way" of his drinking too much on a particular night), I'd find him at the refrigerator, spoon in hand, eating straight from the jelly jar.  He had a craving for simple carbohydrates, I guess.  I found it strange (and doesn't happen anymore).  His "un"conscious mind was running the show...

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btdt

This is not all there are hits and misses on this sites pages there were I think 14 thousand posts to that thread when it was shut down .... 

 

Get as much as you can there will be some links there if you can get them or some things I copied in full...IF you can get them and copy there that will be the only place to find them.. as they have gone 404...

 

One of those missing documents will be about how E affects dopamine why that causing users to seek dopamine increasing activities food booze sex... depending on the person dose and brain chemistry... happy hunting I hope you find those bits but if not it will surely come to light sooner or later may be years but the truth always come out don't it..lets hope it does. 

 

I was at that site for years and none of my posts even show up on the link I sent as that is the early days link... wayback is helpful but I am self taught old person not good with computers and not sure but think some things are gone for good unless your very computer smart then maybe you will find stuff.... I failed typing in high school seems the necessity is the mother of invention I type better now than any other time in my life because the computer is the only place I can get help with wd. 

peace all

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btdt

The site even the way back bits have been cleaned I don't know who does it but I have my suspicions. It is uncanny how the stories are the same that is what is astounding about it...  

 

it is as if a scientist in his lab can look at the genetics of a person and say I want a killing machine so add x amount of x Ad or at a lady and say I want a hooker and make one by adding a drug... 

 

honestly if you had read and seen as much as I have this little scene would be completely believable to you too

 

it seems each drug has it known deal same other drugs booze you get this cocaine you get that pot something else ect ect ect seems to me pharma is way ahead of the world drug market as they keep all their data to themselves and what they don't have they are mining from sites like topix and this one... 

 

ya that is what I really think

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hurtspouse

Hi all, just thought I'd post an update. I asked SO if he'd like to move back home and try to work on things. He didn't give me an answer, he just retreated back to his parents house and has ignored me since. Haven't seen or heard from him all week. I'm almost certain that he's still talking to women inappropriately online as his mum told me that he's just in his room all the time and when she does see him, he is in his own world. I'm too depressed to keep holding on. Yesterday I had that awful feeling of not wanting to exist any more. I just want this pain to go away, and the only (sensible) way I can see that happening is for me to move on. I know he is ill, I know that he 'might' return to himself one day. But I'm just so f***ing tired, so tired and worn out. My insides ache with a painful hollow feeling. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. I'm going to move on for my children and myself. Best wishes to you all.

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TeaBea

Hi Hurtspouse.  I'm sorry things seem so rotten right now.  It is different, I think, when you have children.  You can't put your life on hold, waiting for your husband to come around, especially with the uncertainty of how he'll come out of his SSRI existence.  You simply don't know how long it will take, and if he doesn't come around "positively", then you've wasted precious years of being all depressed, hoping for naught.  Any number of years is too long when it comes to at-home children.  I think back to when our Effexor story started--it was at the outside of our childbearing years (or where I last would've wanted to), and I shudder to think of how awful it would've been for us if children had been involved during his "I don't give a sh*t" years.  It wouldn't have been pretty, so the Universe certainly looked out for us that way (except for regrets of not experiencing children).  I can totally see needing to make a decision and move on for their sakes.

 

And ANY decision can be the right one as long as you don't look back and play "what if".  You can make any decision right by giving it your full attention, facing forward.  

 

As for him ignoring your question.  It's probably too much to try and think about for him.  During my husband's worst of being "stuck in a miserable existence", it felt like he'd rather complain about the things he was not able to do / not doing / didn't have, than to do anything about it.  It just seemed like too much effort to make ANY change, one way or the other.  When asked just about anything that wasn't something on HIS radar, he would just say "I don't give a sh*t".  We built a house during this period, so I heard it a lot.  I told him once, not long ago when it popped out of his mouth, that I think if I ever hear that again, I might start screaming and not stop.  He doesn't understand my frustration.  It's just a "trigger", I guess.  The ONLY thing he cared about during the Effexor years (and it progressively got worse) was drinking.  And drinking.  And doing whatever it was in his head he was thinking about when he was drinking (which either wasn't safe: driving, power saws, mowing by the lake edge; or wasn't appropriate like emailing while drunk because of his disinhibition).

 

I was reading back through some of your posts to refresh my memory....  he said once that being around you made him feel guilty for what he'd done, and it was hard to deal with.  That's probably a lot of the problem right now.  He hates feeling that guilt and he doesn't want to be questioned about things by you either, and if he's not with you, he can ignore the whole episode (mine sure hates that--he says "can't we just move forward and not look back?" which, while valid, doesn't do anything to help us put the pieces together so that we can close the book).  As an example:  My husband had a crappy, hellish childhood.  He won't speak much of it, even to me after all these years.  It was the base source of all his anxiety from puberty onward.  He hated talking to his parents on the phone because he said his dad made him feel guilty.  Even without his father really saying anything except generic conversation, my husband still felt that, so he rarely wanted to call them.  Same now with the parents passed.  Even though his siblings never did anything to him to cause him grief, just being around them or talking to them on the phone, it brings up how he felt as a child in that household.  So, he avoids it.  His mom has been gone over 5 yrs now, and he's not talked once since then to 2 sisters and only twice to his brother who called him both times.  Of course, his Effexor apathy had something to do with how he was during part of those last 5 yrs, too.  

 

Anyway, maybe that's where your husband is now?  Still, it doesn't help you and how you feel.  Can you try taking charge (assuming you even still want to try, knowing how he is) by TELLING him he needs to move back home to start putting HIS family back together again?  Don't ask, tell.  Lay down the law about how you expect him to act as a family man of the family he helped create.  Man up to it.  Maybe he can't make a decision right now because it seems too overwhelming.  Even if you being "bossy" blows up in your face by him rebelling against it, you'd be no worse off than you already are?  I had to do that with mine whenever he was buzzed and wanted to do things--let him hate me the next day if he wanted, I wasn't going to let him accidentally kill himself (or others, driving), or ruin his professional reputation (drunk emailing).  It was a long road, but now he thanks me for it.  Says he doesn't know how I managed, but he's grateful I did.  

 

I wish you all the luck in the world as you put your own pieces back together.  This is effin' mentally exhausting, that's for sure.  I'm still trying to dig myself out of my own depression (and don't dare use meds to do so after all I've learned).  

 

Take care.

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Elvisface

From my point of view, based on my experiences. The magic bullet to end your pain, is to just come to the conclusion that was not your spouse. Move on give them their life back.  They are out there mind out of their body. Now they are back. They feel like they are in Hell, and they are asking you to be their hero. If you are going to make it and get that person out of that hell you Have to be tough as nails. It is nothing i would ever want to do. Yes I would wish it on my worst enemy btw.

 

I wanted my wife back, so I got her back. It hurt for awhile because she was such a zombie, a year later we have healed together, this is the person I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. This is the woman I want and love. This is the woman,  I deserve. 

 

Read as much Anne Blake and Breggin as possible, stay on path. If you got your spouse back from this hell, be grateful. Treat them with great empathy and love. Imagine you will you had nightmare, and well you woke up and everyone including yourself blames you. They need someone to understand they didn't want this life. I question myself everyday, and everyday I would catch glimpses of my wife. Maybe I am just crazy, but jesus christ seeing someone come back to life that has been snuffed out for a year and half is better than a kiss on the face from God.

 

I dont ask questions, I dont ask what ifs.... Its not them, it not my fault. So why care? 

 

 

I have met so many ppl from both sides of the fence, that are still heart-broken. I see so many couples around me now going thru the same situation. I speak up as much as I can, to the point I feel like I am wearing a tin-foil hat. 

 

I have had plenty of help from people from this board, I thank all you for sharing you XP with me. You are all heros to me.  I hope one day all your suffering turns into knowledge and  you can see the pure lean muscle you are.  I don't know what happens now, but life is short and I am not sure how much time I have.

 

Anyway I promised a success story may sound cheesy but WE did it, we won...  :D

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btdt

 

The site even the way back bits have been cleaned I don't know who does it but I have my suspicions. It is uncanny how the stories are the same that is what is astounding about it...  

 

it is as if a scientist in his lab can look at the genetics of a person and say I want a killing machine so add x amount of x Ad or at a lady and say I want a hooker and make one by adding a drug... 

 

honestly if you had read and seen as much as I have this little scene would be completely believable to you too

 

it seems each drug has it known deal same other drugs booze you get this cocaine you get that pot something else ect ect ect seems to me pharma is way ahead of the world drug market as they keep all their data to themselves and what they don't have they are mining from sites like topix and this one... 

 

ya that is what I really think

You are brilliant and I love you for it. 

 

:wub:

It has been a long time since I heard those words too long thank you.  :D

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btdt

 I tried looking again for how opiates affect the brain ... found a tidbit... not even close the good report I once had a link to but a start... tho I have to say it sounds way to simple we know that one thing affects another till down the road some place there is an unexpected reaction... happens every day. 

http://neurogenesis.com/neuroscience/how-opiates-affects-the-brain/

 

 

"Researchers are still not sure exactly how opiate drugs cause this increase in dopamine, but one theory says that when the opiate binds to the receptors on the third neuron shown, that neuron releases less GABA, which is a neurotransmitter that inhibits dopamine. (If there is less GABA, therefore, there is more dopamine.)" 

That link is now corrupt so don't bother looking ... how do they do this?  If this is a closed site how do they get in and change links?

 

What else can they get..our emails ect?

 

I was looking at somatostatin one of those little clues I have been chasing for 10 years that keeps disappearing... 

these drugs change it maybe via oxytocin change... which affects bonding and how we treat stangers as friends on some drugs... celexa by the looks of it

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s002130050867

 

somatostatin is also involved in fibromyalgia... just another clue likely it will disappear too... yes I am belly aching. 

Medication:                Pyridostigmine bromide/Mestinon    

Usage:                         normalizes growth hormone response to exercise 

Common Dosage:      60-180 mg

Mode of Action:         initiate calcium influx and release of acetylcholine

References:                Paiva E, Deodhar A, Jones K, Bennett R. Impaired growth hormone secretion in fibromyalgia patients evidence for augmented hypothalamic somatostatin tone. Arthritis and Rheumatism 2002; 

http://www.nfra.net/fibromyalgia_meds.htm

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s002130050867

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Worriedmom

I am the mother-in-law of a young woman who, I believe, left my son because of a short stint and then a cold turkey off Zoloft.  Like so many others before me, I stumbled on this site during a google search for “anti-depressants and divorce” or something like that. 

Three and a half years ago, my son got married.  They seemed very happy, although I know they both thought there was room for improvement.  : ) They have a delightful three year old son together. 

In June of 2015, my DIL was to take a test at work that was putting her under some stress, and I guess she had a bit of a panic attack.  She went to a clinic and a Physician’s Assistant gave her a prescription for Klonopin.  Then, almost as an afterthought, he said “It sounds like you might be depressed also,” and threw in one for Zoloft, 25 mg. 

Anyway, she took the Zoloft for the month of June, didn’t feel like it was helping, so she stopped taking it.  (Needless to say, apparently the PA didn’t adequately educate her about the dangers.) 

Fast forward to early September.  I got a distressed call from my son saying that she told him she had not been happy for three years, she was leaving him, and she didn’t want to discuss it.  He realized that she was sneaking around and having an affair with an old boyfriend.  Like many other of the SSRI stories, they had been very happy just a week or so before.  Now, suddenly, she’s done and moving on. 

My son mentioned to me that she had been on Zoloft and stopped it, so I searched anti-depressants and divorce, and wow, yes, cold-turkeying off an antidepressant (or changing A/D dosage or brand) can and does cause one to fall out of love.  Not just fall out of love, but desperately need to get rid of the one that was beloved. 

Well, as many have discovered, knowing that “it’s the meds” doesn’t really do a lot of good.  In those first few days after reading enough to know that it WAS the meds, I tried to convince others that it was.  My DIL exhibited so many of the behaviors I’ve read in the SSRI users and spouses stories, all so unlike my common sense, grounded DIL, that even in those early days I was never in doubt that it was the meds, but I was unable to convince anyone that really mattered that it was.  My son, highly distressed, very emotional, angry at her behavior, but still wanting her back, refused to believe it (still refuses), finally said that he thought maybe I was the crazy one and saying it was the pills and that it would wear off just gave him “false hope.”  He finally said if I mentioned the pills again he wouldn’t speak to me.  So, of course, I don’t mention them to him anymore.

Of course, I couldn’t convince my DIL.  She said she was on the lowest dose possible, for only a month, and stopped so long ago, so it couldn’t be the pills.  Besides, she said, this really is the way she feels.   From all the reading I’ve done, I now realize that it would have been a real rarity had I convinced her.   And yes, to anyone who’s reading this and wondering, I’ve seen other stories where the reaction was that delayed.  (Two months past the cold turkey.)

So, I thought if I could convince DIL’s mother that it was the pills, that maybe we could at least prevent DIL from doing any permanent damage to the marriage, and maybe, best case scenario, we could even find something that would make her feelings for her husband return.  I planned to ask on this thread if it was too late to reinstate and do a slow taper.  But, I failed to convince her mother also. 

So, here we are, 8 ½ months after the CT and 6 ½ months after she left him, and things are no better.  I spent the first 3 months reading, reading, reading.  I’ve read and reread the google docs “SSRI users” and “SSRI spouses” several times.  I’ve read as much as I can get into of the PaxilProgress archives on Family Support, which of course is hundreds of pages of disrupted marriages;  the newer Topix pages; and of course, the stories here on SA.   

In the beginning, I was reading to be sure I was right, that it was the pills.  After that, I read to get an idea of the time line.  WHEN will this get better?   Then I kept reading to prepare myself for if/when she “wakes” up, so that I’ll know what to expect and what to tell my son, if/when he’s ever ready to hear it.  Will it be instant, flipped like a switch, love “on” just as it was love “off”?  Or will it be a slow realization?  Or will it be off again, on again, for a while until finally it’s just on for good?  I’ve seen stories that apparently ended all those ways.  Now, I read them again occasionally, to keep it in the front of my mind that it’s the pills, so I don’t forget that my sweet, steady, faithful DIL is still in there somewhere and that if we wait long enough, we’ll have her back.

I had hoped that by now I could write the story with a happy ending, but it hasn’t happened, and I can see now that if she realizes and comes back, it will be complicated.  She’s still with the old boyfriend and my son has since moved on to someone else.  My three-year-old grandson, of course, is the real loser in the whole situation.  So I’m writing for other reasons than giving a happy ending. 

First of all to say thank you to those who have tirelessly been there to help, encourage, and shed light on what these pills do.  Especially btdt, who has so generously given of herself and her time, for years, in spite of her own suffering.  But thank you to so many others, also.  I’m also writing because I feel it’s important to add a report of it happening.  If I hadn’t been able to find SO MANY stories that sounded JUST LIKE what we were experiencing, I’m not sure I would have believed it myself.  I would have just decided that my wonderful DIL was really just a very good actress, to have fooled us all that way for three years, and I would have never mentioned that maybe it was the pills.  At least this way, having maintained for this amount of time that it IS the pills, if she does wake up one day, she’ll know some of us believed in her and loved her through it all, even though she’s pretty unlovable these days.   

(It disturbs me somewhat to see so few new stories appearing.  I KNOW they’re happening, the stories are just not being told.  The reason it disturbs me is because without many stories to prove it happens, new incidents will be chalked up to other reasons and the blame will not fall where it should:  on the pills, the pharmaceutical companies that push them, and the doctors who fail to educate themselves.)

I guess I’m writing also to encourage those who are in the trenches.  I check in on SA “relationships destroyed…” often.  I feel like I know you all.  I yearn to know the endings of the stories of those who’ve not updated.  Many nights I cried myself to sleep over stories long ago resolved – Lauren and Meredith on PaxilProgress with happy endings – DeWayne with an unhappy one.  Many, many others.  So  many real people, still out there somewhere who’ve had their lives disrupted by these horrible pills.

One more thing, I’d like to emphasize that my DIL had no withdrawal symptoms that I know of EXCEPT the loss of feelings for her husband and changes to her behavior.  She apparently felt great and would never have thought she was having any withdrawal symptoms.  So it scares me on this site when I see people say they’ve gone CT and had no w/d symptoms – I guess I wonder if there’s an abandoned family somewhere who would disagree with that.  

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btdt

Hi WM it seems you have the idea that cold turkey caused the lack of love feeling from my understanding based Helen Fisher it is the lack of oxytocin (the bonding drug) caused by taking the drug that is the problem.  She says it most plainly here

 

There are other ideas and opinions one is that the increase of serotonin lowers dopamine and people stop feeling good with anything but the rush of new things ...new love new adventures or dangerous situations.  Feeling numb in a relationship and not having any sexual response to a partner are often associated with lack of love and blaming the partner for it.  Both sexual (post serotonin sexual dysfunction) problems and numbed out feelings are caused by the drugs.  The complete personality change is the most creepy part to me... having lived thru this myself and becoming a new person I actually felt like I was myself for the first time ever... and the sexual acting out which completely creeps me out now was taken in stride even the very dangerous and damaging stuff... it seemed when I tried to think of it I could not think... my brain was stalled as was my connection to my authentic self and consciousness was altered... I could not get back to me.  That was what it was like for me.  Different drugs affect people differently and until and unless this is noticed by the person who was on the drug waiting may be a loss cause.  I just don't know some come back some notice and question their reasoning at some point some we don't know about cause they don't come back to post others like Dwaynes wife apparently just keep going and don't ever look back...or wake up. as you say.  

 

There is no study on this and we can only speculate on what causes it all and what could possibly fix it there may be differences in humans that cause some to come out of it and other not to... I can't even guess.  I wish I could give you more hope. I too am use to being thought mad suggesting the drugs change people in dramatic and terrible ways... so you do have some company.  Some people don't have a big withdrawal from a low dose short term use and if they do it could be delayed hitting months later this is why withdrawal was not noticed from these drugs for such a long time.  Most known drug withdrawals would normally occur shortly after stopping a drug not wks or months later.  Some people end up back on more Ads or other psych meds within the year of stopping to treat wd but they and the docs don't think of it as wd... it is new symptoms of mental disorder that needs treatment.  

Some here including me went from drug to drug for years for this reason wd was not known and is still not well known.,  It would be interesting to see if your DIL ends up on more meds or if she stays clean.  Again early one with short term use she may not have any wd... if so she could go on being well from here on in. 

I think if a person has a good recovery stays healthy they may never examine the changes the drug made as they have already made the excuses real... we don't think the same when drugged it changes our thinking and some husbands have been accused of abuse ect by a wife on meds when no abuse happened... I know this sounds like crap but I for one believe it knowing what I went thru trying to sort out my own thoughts while drugged.  How we get a person who is on drugs and in an altered state of thinking to become aware of it is an impossible question I don't think we can till they are off the drugs... and it may take a long long time to reexamine the past some never do it.  They have invested too much in the new life they have made based on faulty thoughts while drugged... they just keep going.  I will bet there is a place inside that presents questions and pushes issues but the drugged person can't sort it out and just goes on... the off the drugs folks too invested in the already acted on false reality to go back cause what would that make them... insane.. who else would do such a thing?  There is a word I am searching for throughout this thought process and I can't find it.... 

It means you make excuses for what you believe tho there is not fact in it... you chose a belief that was false and now you build a reality around it so that it seems to make sense to you and to everyone else... that is what this is about... a false belief based on drug reactions... I am sure it happens every day and people are completely unaware of it... I know I was. 

Justify... they justify their actions caused by a false belief and change their entire lives and when they wake up if they do it is too late that is my experience... some need to be off the drugs a good long time and have things remind them to come the facts that something is off... at that point a site like this is a life saver... 

Meredith was on the effexor topics thread her early days are all there if you can find her... there were others there some never recovered the marriage as the non drug taking spouse could not believe it was a drug...other times it was the drug taker... but some of them made it... some recovered. I guess you know that from reading... I am sure it is not easy for any of them. Still the more people that are aware it can happen the better off we are. 

Welcome to SA

I wish you and your  family peace in this troubled time. 

ps 

there have also been cases where the drugs were involved in false memories of abuse something I discovered in my years of searching.  Not something that is given much press for sure but it is out there. 

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