picchy citalopram withdrawal

[picchy]

Hello everyone,

 

I wondered if any of you can help. I never took antidepressants before until six years ago when my mum died (Citalopram 20mg).

 

I tapered very slowly over about six months and finally came off them in March of this year.

 

About two weeks later I had the most severe and frightening depression of my life. It went away and I had two months of feeling fine - so I thought the withdrawal was over.

 

However, the awful depression and anxiety returned and it's now been more than a month of hell. Out of depsperation, and because I didn't want to be stuck on SSRIs for life, I started taking moclobemide at a very low dose. The side-effects have been severe though (I also suffer badly from ME/CFS) and I'm not sure it's going to help. I never routinely had depression before - it was only when something awful happened.

 

Will going on other SSRIs after this time or back on citalopram (4 and a half months) even work - or will it make things worse? Will the MAO (moclobemide) make things worse?

 

I've become housebound due to the combination of severe depression and my ME and am desperate.

 

Thanks for any help,

Picchy

 

 

[Addax]

Hi Picchy.

I'm simply another member but wanted to welcome you to SA. A moderator and/or administrator will be along soon to help answer so e of your questions and provide you with some guidance, as well as have a few questions to help them inform their recommendations.

 

I'm sorry you're going through this difficult time. Withdrawal can be so scary sometimes... I think you'll be very glad you joined SA. You'll get a lot of support here from members and some very knowledgable administrators. Their advice and support has helped me a great deal.

 

So hold tight, someone will be along soon.

 

Again, Welcome!

[picchy]

Thank you SIlver Star x

[Altostrata]

Welcome, picchy.

 

Many people report unprecedented "black holes" emotionally as a withdrawal symptom. This sounds like what you're experiencing.

 

Usually when people are recently off an antidepressant and get withdrawal symptoms, reinstatement of a very low dose of the antidepressant -- in your case, citalopram -- relieve or reduce the withdrawal symptoms. Then, one would stabilize for some months and taper with very, very small reductions to go off completely.

 

However, since you've gone on moclobemide, an MAOI, your situation is more complicated. One must allow a washout period after taking an MAOI before taking an SSRI like citalopram.

 

With moclobemide, the advised washout period is unusually short http://www.medicinesresources.nhs.uk/upload/documents/Evidence/Medicines%20Q%20&%20A/NW%20QA151.4%20switching%20antidepressants%20-%20MAOIs,%20SSRIs,%20TCAs%20and%20related.doc -- 2 days.

 

Still, if I were you, I'd allow a week. Withdrawal syndrome and adverse effects of moclobemide may have made your nervous system very sensitive to any kind of psychiatric drug or even some foods or supplements.

 

Given that, I would not try any more than 1mg citalopram if you want to try this. There are no guarantees. With the moclobemide adverse reactions and other drugs you may be taking, your nervous system may be so sensitive you cannot take any additional neuroactive drugs.

 

Citalopram comes in a liquid so you can take very small amounts, see information about titration here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2023-tips-for-tapering-off-celexa-citalopram/

 

What other drugs are you taking? Put them all in this Drug Interactions Checker http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html and post the results in this topic.

 

How did you go off citalopram? What was the last dose you took?

[picchy]

Thanks so much for the reply.

 

I came off citalopram 4 and a half months ago and tapered very very slowly. Because it's been so long I don't even know if going back on it will help. What do you think?

 

I was hoping the MAO might help but it's had an agitating effect so far. I've only taken it at a tiny dose for 11 days though so I don't know if I should give it a chance for the side-effects to wear off or not.

 

I don't take any other drugs.

 

Started citalopram March 2008 at 20mg when my mum died.

 

Tapered over six months and stopped March 2014.

 

Had month of severe depression followed by 2 months of feeling fine. Since then the depression has come back badly for over a month.

[Altostrata]

It's very likely you are sensitized to psychiatric drugs and will have adverse reactions to any of them.

 

Please see non-drug ways to manage emotional symptoms http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/

[picchy]

Hello everyone,

 

I've found so much useful information on this site that just doesn't seem available anywhere else - so thank you.

 

However I'm still unsure if my situation is protracted withdrawal or not.

 

A couple of weeks after I came off Citalopram (Celexa) 20mg I had the worst, most frightening depression of my life. I am confused because after a month of this it went away, and I felt completely fine for two months. But then it came back and has lasted even longer (probably due to it coinciding with a bad episode of my ME/CFS). The thing is I don't seem to be getting the additional physical symptoms others mention - only the worst and longest episode of depression and anxiety I've ever had.

 

I worry that this is the first time I've had to cope with my mum's death without the blanket of drugs and I've just developed a new, much worse type of depression. Combined with the ME it might just all be too much.

 

My history:

 

Developed severe ME/CFS in 2005 which still persists, though was improved before my recents bouts of depression made it worse. Didn't need antidepressants even though I lost my job and become housebound.

 

Took Citalopram 20mg when mum was diagnosed with terminal illness in March 2008.

 

Stopped the drug in March 2014, after a slow taper of 5/6 months I think. Should never have stayed on it that long and at that dose.

 

Two weeks later - I got a month of severe depression.

 

Two months of feeling fine.

 

June/July - return of severe depression/anxiety.

 

July 2014 - stupidly tried Moclobemide (an MAO) for the depression but it made me really sick at a very low dose so am stopping.

 

I know now I should have taken even longer to come off the CItalopram. Not 5/6 months but maybe 2 years. I would like to reinstate and come off even more slowly but feel it's too late now. Any thoughts welcome.

 

My situation is complicated by having ME, which means my nervous system is already in a state of over-arousal and anxiety. Since the severe depression/anxiety and ME make each other worse I am feeling hopeless now about my ability to recover from either.

 

By the time I get the Moclobemide out of my system it will be around 5 months since I stopped the Citalopram. Has anyone reinstated after that time and had any success?

 

Gratitude to anyone who can respond.

[Petunia]

Hi Picchy,

I merged your question from symptoms with your own thread because its related to your own situation rather than symptoms.  You will get a better response here.

 

Petu.

[Altostrata]

picchy's question answered above in this topic.

[picchy]

Please help - have been too sick to post until now.

 

After coming off 6 years of Citalopram I had a couple of bouts of uncharacteristic depression and anxiety, which I thought was bad enough. Then during the second wave of depression I had an overnight crash and became utterly sick and debilitated with the most excruciating and severe depression I could ever imagine. Nearly three months later I am still housebound and had to have my blinds shut for a month because I couldn't even stand daylight.

 

Although I've had ME/CFS for 9 years it was moderate and I could still function. I have never ever been this ill and debilitated, and I wonder how I can ever recover from withdrawal since I'm reacting to everything - light, chemicals, stress, viruses.

 

Has anyone been this ill? I feel like giving up because I can't see how I can recover. And if I do improve and the unbearable depression comes back in a wave I don't think I can survive.

 

Please help anyone,

Picchy

[Lexy]

Hi welcome to the forum.

Unfortunately I cannot advise, I'm sure someone will come in to help you. Please hang on.

[Meimeiquest]

Yes, people have been bed bound and recovered. People will be more able to help you if you can provide more information about how you came off the medicine, over what length of time and at what does you stopped it. Do you take any other drugs? Welcome to the forum!

[Meimeiquest]

*dose (love spellcheck)

[areyouthere]

The most important information we need right now to help you is the following:

 

** When was the last dose and how many milligrams of citalopram were you taking.

 

Depending on how long ago your last dose was you may have a good chance of reinstating at a lower dose, stabilizing to feel much, much better and then to taper very slowly off of that.

 

Here are some things to read until someone with much more expertise than I stops by. Hang in there. There is hope.:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3079-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-stop-withdrawal-symptoms/

[picchy]

Thanks everyone. Unfortunately it's far too late to reinstate as I came off in March after a five month taper (was on 20mg for six years).

 

Then when the crash happened overnight and I became utterly debilitated and unable to eat with extreme depression I stupidly tried to take a different one at a low dose for 2 weeks (moclobemide). This made things so so much worse and then I began to get horrible brain zaps and frightening unreality, total intolerance to daylight.

 

I can't believe I can be this sick and have now very severe ME and recover.

[Wildflower0214]

Hang in there! People do recover from this. You can. I feel like total crap and have been sensitive to all kinds of things and had sensations I can't even begin to list! Don't give up. It's the WD talking. Not your true emotions. Take one hour at a time. Please know you are not alone!

[Altostrata]

picchy, I merged your two Intro topics. This keeps your journey in one place. Please bookmark this topic and add to it.

 

What are your current symptoms?

 

Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/
 

[picchy]

Thanks so much. This difficulty is I feel so alone - and I live alone with no family help.

 

I had two bouts of depression before this happened, but no physical symptoms. Then I had an overnight crash after sitting outside in the sun during the day. I woke up shaking, sweating and icy cold. The next day I felt utterly debilitated and my appetite just switched off. I had the most intense unbearable depression and terrible anxiety, and felt suicidal for two months solid - something I've never felt in my life. My physical condition worsened again just after sitting outside and getting too cold, then I was bedbound for a couple of weeks with flulike symptoms. Then I got extreme light sensitivity, unreality, head numbness and tingling.

 

For all of this time I've been unable to distract myself as I can't watch TV, I struggle to use a computer, can hardly read or listen to music. I can hardly go outside or stand up and I walk like a zombie. I just sit all day unable to think straight and not feeling remotely like myself at all. I'm terrified that getting too cold or too much sun will trigger the same crash again.

 

I already had ME for 9 years but was much recovered and even at its worst it was never remotely this bad. I am terrified that I slip back into the severe suicidal depression as I just don't have the support to go through this alone and don't feel safe.

 

It's been like this every day for three months, albeit with some of the symptoms coming and going and some easing off. I've no idea if I'm in a window or a wave and therefore what to expect.

 

Picchy

[Wildflower0214]

From what I know these are all pretty typical. Im so sorry your going through this and are unable to distract yourself. I went off an AD way too quickly and am in the middle of an awful wave. Petu or one of the others may be able to give you some practical advice, but know that I am praying for you. Hold on. This will not last forever. You are in my thoughts.

[Meimeiquest]

I am so sorry for all your troubles.

 

I don't have ME, but I have been chronically fatigued since 1999 (except for the Adderall/Nuvigil years, something I wouldn't recommend). I wouldn't be surprised if there is a connection between ME and hard withdrawals, the symptoms can be very similar.

 

Anyway, I have been reading some of the work of Sarah Myhill, MD. I would guess you have heard of her, being from the UK? Anyway, she suggests listening to readings when one is sick and needs to rest. I have listened to something verbal when I am sick my whole life, it works much better than music for me and TV is it of the question. Anyway, she gives the phone number of a place in the UK where this is available. I would be glad to run it down if you think you could use it. I know your problems go far beyond that, and I wish there were easier answers.

[picchy]

How is your current wave affecting  you JDM? Thanks for your kind message.

[picchy]

Thanks Meimequest. I've been listening to the radio (just talking / stories and not upsetting news) throughout the whole episode as haven't been able to do anything else. Am only just able to use a computer a little and go outside for maybe five minutes. The thought I could relapse back to the awful state I was in is terrifying.

 

I was doing the Gupta Amygdala Retraining Programme for my ME before this happened and it was helping, since it's designed to calm down the nervous system. I'm trying to pick it up again as I don't know what else could help.

 

It's frightening that even sitting in the sun or getting too cold outside could cause another crash. Or probably stress of any kind.

[Wildflower0214]

Well, it's all over the place, here's a list to let you know you are in good company.

Intrusive suicidal thoughts

Didn't sleep for three days straight! Not a wink

Irritability

Agitation

Feeling 'high' like on drugs... Almost like an upper and downer at the same time

Anxiety

Feelings of rage

Serious Depression

Weeping

Restlessness

Twitching in legs

Cold burning feeling in arms and legs

Headache

At moments, suicidal ideation, although it's better when I keep my mind off of it. It's worse in the mornings.

Inability to handle noises or bright lights

WELCOME to the wave.

I have also had bizzare reactions to too much sunshine, it made me agitated. Lol

It will pass! It may take forever but it will! Your nervous system is healing. I'm so sorry you are alone!!! This site has literally been a lifeline for me, in addition to God. How are you today?

[picchy]

Sorry that's just so awful. Have you had these episodes before and come out of them, only for them to return? It sounds like how I felt for two months solid. I'm still really struggling with depression and physical incapacity - only being able to get of the house for maybe five minutes a couple of times a day. Also I don't feel myself at all, don't do anything, feel the fear kicking in when I have to spend a day alone.

 

Many of the symptoms have calmed down a lot such as not being able to open my blinds for a month, and this horrible state is heaven compared with before. Does it mean this is a 'window' and I have to go back down to where I was? I couldn't bear it.

[Petunia]

Many of the symptoms have calmed down a lot such as not being able to open my blinds for a month, and this horrible state is heaven compared with before. Does it mean this is a 'window' and I have to go back down to where I was? I couldn't bear it.

 

Hi picchy,

If you can open your blinds now, that's a good sign your nervous system is calming down.  Light sensitivity is a common symptom of withdrawal.  I had it badly, but its also reduced for me.

 

I don't think this is a window, just evidence that your 'baseline' is improving.  Its possible that when you get a wave, and most people do, its possible the sensitivity may come back temporarily.  I still have to be careful in the mornings and generally feel more comfortable with bright light later in the day.  Just pay attention to your own body and patterns and adjust what you do to keep yourself as comfortable as possible.

 

The Windows and Waves topic may help you to understand how recovery often happens.

 

If you are able to get outside for 2 five minute walks each day, that's great, just do as much as you can while remaining comfortable.  In early withdrawal, a little is better than a lot until you find out how much stimulation you can tolerate.  If something becomes unpleasant, then stop.  Many of us have made the mistake of doing too much when we have been in a window, thinking it will be ok, only to find that we crash the next day and symptoms increase again.  Its ok to just enjoy a time of feeling better without having to do anything different.

 

Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature.  Putting a short version of your drug history in your signature helps people understand your context, it appears below each of your posts.  Here are instructions for how to do it:

 

http://survivinganti...your-signature/

 

If you start to get anxious without company, and you can't call someone for a chat.  Come here to the site and post about how you are feeling if it helps, or read and post on other threads.  You are not alone in going through this, even though it can feel that way sometimes.

 

I'm glad you are feeling a little better.

 

Petu.

[Wildflower0214]

Picchy,

I don't have enough experience to say if it is a window or not. Petu knows much more. I'm only 4 months into this. But, I would say that every wave for me has felt much different. I have improved in areas only to lose ground in others. It seems very confusing. It is helpful to read the threads on here. Other people's experiences help me a great deal. You can go to the beginning of mine and tell where I was a few months ago. Not a happy camper. but, I'm not there anymore, in a different place now. Better in some ways, two steps back in others.

 

How are u?

[picchy]

Thanks JDM,

 

When you say you've had waves over the past 4 months, does that mean you've felt normal in between and then crashed? I haven't been able to find your thread.. Hope it improves for you soon and stays that way.

 

I can't see much progress and my ME has become so severe and the other symptoms never really lifted I can't imagine how long it will take me to even reach a window.

 

Piccy

[picchy]

Thanks so much for the message Petu.

 

I'm confused about what a window is... Do you feel normal in a window and then crash?

 

I feel so debilitated I can't imagine how long it will take me to feel normal, and the thought that I'll then crash again is just overwhelming.

 

Thanks,

Piccy

[picchy]

Also I wondered if people on the forum ever call each other on the phone? I feel it would help me enormously, and mostly I can't use a computer. I'm based in the UK and was hoping maybe UK-based people could call each other for support?

[Wildflower0214]

No, actually I haven't felt normal at all, just not debilitated. I wish I were in the UK, I'm in the US or I would def call you. Speaking over the phone def helps. I will keep you in prayer though.

[Petunia]

I'm confused about what a window is... Do you feel normal in a window and then crash?

 

 

Hi picchy,

A window is a period of time where you feel normal, or very close to normal.  Occasionally, people don't have windows, but recover gradually, but most recovery from these drugs happens in a windows and waves kind of pattern.

 

It can take a while to get your first window, and at first it may just be a matter of minutes, or an hour or two.  Some people alternate between windows and waves.  But I have found I have a kind of baseline of ongoing withdrawal symptoms.  I will get hit with a wave, when these symptoms get worse for several days, then go back to baseline.  I've had 3 or 4 real windows so far, each one lasted a few hours and was a complete surprise.

 

I know you are having problems using a computer but if you read through the Windows and Waves topic a little at a time, it will help you to understand.

 

I hope you start to feel better soon.

 

Petu.

 

It can be difficult to have a window and then have to go back to feeling bad again.  But once they start, you know that your brain is capable of achieving that state and will do again.

[picchy]

Thanks Petu,

 

I think I'm having trouble making sense of my situation because I also have ME/CFS which has severely worsened after the w/d crash. Therefore I'm not sure I can switch from feeling normal to having symptoms again like an otherwise healthy person can - or at least someone who didn't already have a compromised nervous system (which is what ME is).

 

Maybe I'll be like you and have a baseline of ongoing w/d symptoms - that's a helpful definition for me.

 

Having ME as well as w/d makes me very scared about being able to recover.

 

Thanks for helping Petu.

[picchy]

And thanks JDM - how are you doing?

[Wildflower0214]

Well, I'm better than I was yesterday. Lol I'll keep u posted on sustained progress. I hope and pray you are well.

 

___________________________________________________________________________

 

PLEASE NOTE:  picchy created a new Introduction topic in 2016.  Fast forward to 2020 the 2 Introduction topics have been merged.  Only 1 Introduction topic per member.

 

Edited November 2, 2020 by ChessieCat
added please note

[picchy]

picchy: stopping the contraceptive pill

 

Hello everyone,

 

I am still in withdrawal from Citalopram after two years and also suffer from CFS/ME. I've been severely ill and housebound since withdrawing and still have several neuro-symptoms from the withdrawal, as well as much worsened ME.

 

I've become worried that I've taken the birth control pill for 10 years to control my periods while having ME. I thought I was on a low-dosage pill until I realised after a few years my doctor had changed my medication to normal dose. While in more severe withdrawal I went back to the low-dose (20/150 mg) and don't think the reduction worsened things.

 

I'm not keen to keep taking the pill but am worried about the effects of withdrawing, given the severity of my w/d from citalopram.

 

Does anyone know if it is possible to withdraw gradually from the contraceptive pill? Would it be harmful or helpful in withdrawal? I just don't want to keep taking any other long-term drug that could be harming me.

 

Many thanks for reading,

Picchy

 

2005: Developed CFS/ME

2008: Started 20mg Citalopram after bereavement

March 2014: Came off Citalopram after a five-month taper

July 2014: Had sudden severe withdrawal that caused immobility, suicidal depression and many awful sensory, physical and mental symptoms and severe ME symptoms such as extreme immune problems

Currently (as of March 2016) with many reduced symptoms but still in withdrawal - eg more moderate light sensitivity, unreality, neuro-emotions. Many much improved symptoms eg no longer suicidal, agitated anxiety gone. ME still severe - physical ability very limited.

 

Edited November 2, 2020 by ChessieCat
added topic title before merging two intro topics

[SquirrellyGirl]

Hi picchy,

 

I'm sorry you are still in withdrawal from Cit after two years.  Do you have windows ever?

 

I'll be watching to see what a  more experienced Mod has to say about tapering the BCP.  I was on them my whole life and came off at the same time as coming off Effexor, and I can only imagine that it made things worse!  I had such severe hot flashes, drenching the bed sheets etc, along with cognitive issues, and those are both withdrawal symptoms AND a menopause symptoms...I came off the pill because surely I was menopausal and didn't need to be on them anymore...Not the brightest thing I ever did, coming off both pretty much at the same time!

 

I don't see why it would be harmful to taper them, but I would discuss this with your doctor to see if there would be any problem in doing it.  If the answer is probably not, then I would see if the pill could be dissolved in water and then do a 10% taper.  

 

SG