Againstallodds: Obsessive thoughts-help

[mammaP]

Usually we find that it is a sign that your body is not happy with the dose and a reduction is needed.

Maybe reduce by half if that is possible? 

[Jose]

Hello AAO.

Sorry to read about your suffering, and so glad you found this place of comfort.

There are many loving and caring people here with great experience with the suffering of withdrawal, and the consideration to share it. They have helped me lots, too.

I'm going through withdrawal and the hints I can share so far are: 

- Keep it as simple and relaxing as possible. Above all you need rest, so go for the simplest ways to relax: soft exercise, relaxing music (like the one you mentioned, or the nature sounds that btdt says), be close to nature, plants...avoid stimulation.

- Meditation helps. It is helping me immensely. Many types of meditation can make you restless, agitated and anxious, so keeping it as simple as possible is also the key. What works for me is the breathing meditation: just paying attention to in breath and out breath, the sound of your breath or the mantras that Petu or mlrp mention, thinking of breathing in patience or tranquility and breathing out the opposite. Try until you find one that doesn't make you anxious, and keep trying. Meditation improves your attention and makes your system more stable. Try it regularly. Persistence is the only way. I have only started noticing the effects after a few weeks.

- Be patient. The only way is patience, time. This truly is one thing I have learnt from the lovely people in this forum. And the one thing that those who love me keep telling me.

Give it time, and keep going.

[Againstallodds]

Usually we find that it is a sign that your body is not happy with the dose and a reduction is needed.

Maybe reduce by half if that is possible? 

I'll wait a day or two if it does not get better ill cut the 5 mg to Half

Not sure that the 2.5 mg will be super accurate but it's better than the liquid version that seems complicated 

If that does not work there is no choice but to try the liquid version

Thank you so much!

[Againstallodds]

Hello AAO.

Sorry to read about your suffering, and so glad you found this place of comfort.

There are many loving and caring people here with great experience with the suffering of withdrawal, and the consideration to share it. They have helped me lots, too.

I'm going through withdrawal and the hints I can share so far are: 

- Keep it as simple and relaxing as possible. Above all you need rest, so go for the simplest ways to relax: soft exercise, relaxing music (like the one you mentioned, or the nature sounds that btdt says), be close to nature, plants...avoid stimulation.

- Meditation helps. It is helping me immensely. Many types of meditation can make you restless, agitated and anxious, so keeping it as simple as possible is also the key. What works for me is the breathing meditation: just paying attention to in breath and out breath, the sound of your breath or the mantras that Petu or mlrp mention, thinking of breathing in patience or tranquility and breathing out the opposite. Try until you find one that doesn't make you anxious, and keep trying. Meditation improves your attention and makes your system more stable. Try it regularly. Persistence is the only way. I have only started noticing the effects after a few weeks.

- Be patient. The only way is patience, time. This truly is one thing I have learnt from the lovely people in this forum. And the one thing that those who love me keep telling me.

Give it time, and keep going.

Thanks so much for your response and tips 

I try a bit of everything when I can 

Very hard to do something relaxing with constantly obsessive thoughts  and feeling of hysteria 

Unfortunately I'm sure there are many people here who understand me 

And this forum .. definitely a life saver, I have seen other forums but this forum has a big heart, support,  excellent tips & lovely people 

Anyway I will try to find relaxation in all this chaos, I do not think There is another way

[mlrp]

Hello, AAO,

 

I know everything seems overwhelming right now. You're doing a good job of hanging in there. Breathe in, breathe out, you'll make it.

 

Maybe this is for later, when you're not so stressed, but don't give up on the idea of making a liquid version. I put it off for a long time, thinking it was complicated, and it really isn't. 

 

You will need to measure exact amounts with syringes, but these can be purchased from a pharmacy or a veterinarian. (I used left over syringes from when I had to give medicine to my rabbits.) 

 

But there's nothing tricky about making the solution. You just drop the tablet or capsule into a specific, measured amount of water, wait about 30-60 minutes and it's dissolved. Then you syringe up the dose you need and put that in a little bottle for when you need it later. 

 

Anyway, mostly wanted to say Courage! You will find your right dosage and then you will stabilize and begin your journey of recovery.

[Againstallodds]

//

[Againstallodds]

 

Hello, AAO,

 

I know everything seems overwhelming right now. You're doing a good job of hanging in there. Breathe in, breathe out, you'll make it.

 

Maybe this is for later, when you're not so stressed, but don't give up on the idea of making a liquid version. I put it off for a long time, thinking it was complicated, and it really isn't. 

 

You will need to measure exact amounts with syringes, but these can be purchased from a pharmacy or a veterinarian. (I used left over syringes from when I had to give medicine to my rabbits.) 

 

But there's nothing tricky about making the solution. You just drop the tablet or capsule into a specific, measured amount of water, wait about 30-60 minutes and it's dissolved. Then you syringe up the dose you need and put that in a little bottle for when you need it later. 

 

Anyway, mostly wanted to say Courage! You will find your right dosage and then you will stabilize and begin your journey of recovery.

"You will find your right dosage and then you will stabilize and begin your journey of recovery" Amen to this!

I definitely need to find a balance to start working on the real problems 

Meanwhile I fight Windmills ..

 

Regarding dosage, I'll try to cross to 2.5 mg if side effects continue at 5 mg if that does not work I guess I would have to go to  liquid

 

Thank you!!

 

[Rhiannon]

I know it feels like a lot of trouble to get the liquid, but it is definitely worth the trouble. If you cut pills you get too much variation in dosage from one day to the next and that can make the withdrawal symptoms worse. You will need the liquid eventually anyway in order to taper down.

 

I know it is very challenging to tackle new things when you're feeling so ill.

[btdt]

Making a liquid would most likely be easier than going to the liquor store and maybe cheaper

[Againstallodds]

I know it feels like a lot of trouble to get the liquid, but it is definitely worth the trouble. If you cut pills you get too much variation in dosage from one day to the next and that can make the withdrawal symptoms worse. You will need the liquid eventually anyway in order to taper down.

 

I know it is very challenging to tackle new things when you're feeling so ill.

I looked at the link of the liquid version

But I did not realize how much water is equivalent to 5 mg of Seroxat

Sorry everything's so complicated now, English is not easy for me as well especially now that the concentration is zero

If you can explain to me (in plain English), I would appreciate it

[Againstallodds]

Impossible situation, please someone wake me from this nightmare 

I'm two days with 5 mg Seroxat 

I really do not know if the 5 mg make me feel's so bad, I felt bad before, I had two days of good sleep (relatively) but this night was troubled, and when I got up OMG all the horrors that can be woken up before I opened my eyes 

I'm afraid to go to sleep because I know how ill wake up 

My heart rate's so high that I feel like my heart is going to jump off the chest 

I run to the bathroom more than usual 

my brain is projecting horror stories So fast that There is not enough time for positive thinking to sign in, all day

I'm afraid to leave the house for fear of people 

I feel physically deformed 

The future looked black, My past more, present intolerable, I do not know what to do 

Can not listen to relaxing music (it pisses me off more) 

or anything that requires concentration 

I want my normal life back

Anyway Im Down to 2.5 mg today and probably will move the liquid version if ill not settle down, but I wonder if 2.5 mg of Seroxat can balance me? This minor dose ..

[Jose]

AAO,

Please persevere. Remind yourself that YOU are not your messy combination of feelings and thoughts right now. You are beyond that, and the agitation will pass, because it is transitory.

You don't have to look for calmness, calmness is within you, it cannot be taken away. What you have to do is relax and let the agitation go away and disperse, and calmness will appear from underneath.

If you cannot listen to music, don't do it. Find other ways to relax.

Go to the basics, the basic breathing, exhale much slower than you inhale. And focus on how the air comes in and out. And keep doing it.

And tell yourself you're going to be ok and this will pass. Believe me I have gone through panic, and panic tells you there is no way out, but there is, because panic always goes, you have to be patient.

Little exercise also helps, it doesn't matter how much. Perseverance is the only key.

[Againstallodds]

AAO,

Please persevere. Remind yourself that YOU are not your messy combination of feelings and thoughts right now. You are beyond that, and the agitation will pass, because it is transitory.

You don't have to look for calmness, calmness is within you, it cannot be taken away. What you have to do is relax and let the agitation go away and disperse, and calmness will appear from underneath.

If you cannot listen to music, don't do it. Find other ways to relax.

Go to the basics, the basic breathing, exhale much slower than you inhale. And focus on how the air comes in and out. And keep doing it.

And tell yourself you're going to be ok and this will pass. Believe me I have gone through panic, and panic tells you there is no way out, but there is, because panic always goes, you have to be patient.

Little exercise also helps, it doesn't matter how much. Perseverance is the only key.

Thank you 

I understand what you're saying 

But when there is panic attack sometimes for three weeks without a break 

Then a day or two break (and when I say break I mean anxiety but not panic) with intrusive thoughts For six months, It's just really impossible 

Nothing I do is relaxing, nothing 

Body and mind are working on speed 

 

So I started again 5 mg of Seroxat, was too strong, downloaded to 2.5 mg

I asked here if this dose is effective, but I feel (three days after dropping the dose) there is some benefit 

Still not quite work on the brain, I doubt it will work because it is a minor dose & zero time

but In general a little relaxing (and a little is a lot in this situation) 

 

The disadvantages are:  feel tired all day, my body hurts, dizziness, discharge from the eyes 

And my sleep shorter but 

Better then a panic that lasts weeks 

Hope it will get better because this is a frightening and dangerous experience 

And I do not want to experience anything like that again

It's like a very, very bad trip LCD lasting months (Never did a trip but I think that now I have some idea)

 

I'm going to wait after I find a balance and then take off the medicine wisely 

First of all, some oxygen, I really need it

Hope everyone who is suffering find relief soon

 

[Petunia]

Hi AAO,

I'm glad to hear you are feeling better now you have dropped to 2.5mg, this is good.  Please stay in touch and let us know how you are.  If anything changes, or you start to feel worse again, let us know.  I hope you continue to improve on this dose and can stabilize.

 

When you feel up to it, please would you add this reinstatement and the date to your signature.

 

Petu.

[Nikki]

"I agree with you, the will to escape anxiety by endless pursuits sometimes creates more anxiet, hard to be alone, hard to be out .no matter what angle.I feel trapped"

 

Hello I understand the obsessive thoughts very well.  You have been thru alot.  The anxiety/obsessive thoughts are hard on us during WD.  It is a chemical reaction.

 

I have been spending alot of time each night working in techniques to remedy anxiety.  It did help and when I am not in a 'bad space' I can catch myself having an adrenalin or panic reaction and ask myself "what was the thought that brought on that bodily reaction.?"  And then talk myself thru it.  I had to learn how to do this.  There are times, mostly each morning when I am unable to do that.

 

You are not alone that is for sure.

[mammaP]

"I agree with you, the will to escape anxiety by endless pursuits sometimes creates more anxiet, hard to be alone, hard to be out .no matter what angle.I feel trapped"

 

Hello I understand the obsessive thoughts very well.  You have been thru alot.  The anxiety/obsessive thoughts are hard on us during WD.  It is a chemical reaction.

 

 

 

Chemical reaction is the myth that big pharma puts out to sell their drug, withdrawal is quite different

and a result of  removing a drug or part of a drug.  The nervous system is unstable and causes many symptoms. 

I think Nikki may have meant hormones,  

[Againstallodds]

 

You are not alone that is for sure.

Unfortunately!!

I am helpless against the horrible thoughts that run around my mind

I have tried every way possible to communicate with them, does not work

Impossible to ignore either

[Againstallodds]

Hi AAO,

I'm glad to hear you are feeling better now you have dropped to 2.5mg, this is good.  Please stay in touch and let us know how you are.  If anything changes, or you start to feel worse again, let us know.  I hope you continue to improve on this dose and can stabilize.

 

When you feel up to it, please would you add this reinstatement and the date to your signature.

 

Petu.

hi petu

I updated the signature

Well, I spoke too soon, the first half day panic the rest of the day anxiety (OCD all day)

I guess it's too early to see a change

I'm not sure Seroxat made ​​it worse (also in the 5 mg dose)

I felt awful before

but please as i ask before, 2.5 mg this is not a minor dose feel the difference, It can take weeks / months??

Thank you

[Petunia]

Thank you for updating your signature.

 

2.5mg is not a low dose.  Yes, it can take between 1 - 12 weeks, sometimes longer to become stable after a reinstatement.   Sometimes it doesn't work. 

 

If your symptoms are decreasing or you are the same, then perhaps give it some more time.  You should start to feel better in a windows and waves kind of pattern.  You may feel better for a while, and then feel bad again.  The better times should increase and the bad times should decrease.

 

If you are obviously getting worse, then you should stop taking it or drop the dose lower.

 

Keep notes on paper of your symptoms so you can easily see if they are improving.  Do what you can to rest and stay calm.

 

Petu.

[Againstallodds]

Thank you for updating your signature.

 

2.5mg is not a low dose.  Yes, it can take between 1 - 12 weeks, sometimes longer to become stable after a reinstatement.   Sometimes it doesn't work. 

 

If your symptoms are decreasing or you are the same, then perhaps give it some more time.  You should start to feel better in a windows and waves kind of pattern.  You may feel better for a while, and then feel bad again.  The better times should increase and the bad times should decrease.

 

If you are obviously getting worse, then you should stop taking it or drop the dose lower.

 

Keep notes on paper of your symptoms so you can easily see if they are improving.  Do what you can to rest and stay calm.

 

Petu.

Since I started the Seroxat without the help of a psychiatrist or a family doctor the tips here are important to me

Without a doubt I can trust you when it comes to drugs than rely on doctors..

 

I write everything in great detail (which is not done in the past) to have a clear indication

ill See how the days go by and I'll update

 

Thank you (And all the others who responded) for your guidance and support

much appreciate!

[mlrp]

Keep going, AAO. You are working hard at doing all the right things, even in the midst of the greatest challenges. You are strong!

[Againstallodds]

Keep going, AAO. You are working hard at doing all the right things, even in the midst of the greatest challenges. You are strong!

There is a tendency to forget that in hard times so thank you for reminding me 

for sure anyone who manages to survive this hell is strong as steel

 

[MissMellie]

I have been in the same spot as you againstallodds. I had terribly disgusting and violent thoughts that I thought I would never get rid off. Please know that they are not you and that they do disappear. I am currently 28months out and thoughts have disappeared now. I get an occasional one, but I can dismiss it very quickly and I know its not me. I can honestly say that at the 2 year mark, there were huge improvements with this. I basically did a cold turkey withdrawal so I believe my symptoms were quite severe and I definelty would not recommend it, but this was truly one of my worst symptoms and it has gone. You will get there, I promise!

[Altostrata]

MissMellie, thank you so much for posting that for AAO.

[Againstallodds]

I have been in the same spot as you againstallodds. I had terribly disgusting and violent thoughts that I thought I would never get rid off. Please know that they are not you and that they do disappear. I am currently 28months out and thoughts have disappeared now. I get an occasional one, but I can dismiss it very quickly and I know its not me. I can honestly say that at the 2 year mark, there were huge improvements with this. I basically did a cold turkey withdrawal so I believe my symptoms were quite severe and I definelty would not recommend it, but this was truly one of my worst symptoms and it has gone. You will get there, I promise!

Many thanks for the encouragement

You're so strong you survived this hell, well done!

I hope I can reach a point were I can be free of the drugs

This is the 3-4 (I do not really remember) I'm trying to get off but it's much too strong for me

I didnt know then what I know now, listened to too many psychiatrists thet told me to go down too fast

That's why I started Seroxat alone, I have no more faith in doctors

Once I find a balance I could go down the right way

To some extent disappointed in myself that I could not stay clean

I am far from feeling ok and I hope I did the right thing by returning to take Seroxat ..

I guess time will tell

Until then, I'm  taking it day by day, dont see any alternative.. 

[Petunia]

"I hope I can reach a point were I can be free of the drugs"

You will get free, it may take some time, but you will get there

"This is the 3-4 (I do not really remember) I'm trying to get off but it's much too strong for me"

The withdrawal symptoms are strong, but you are stronger, with each day you get through, you are one day stronger.

"I didnt know then what I know now, listened to too many psychiatrists thet told me to go down too fast

That's why I started Seroxat alone, I have no more faith in doctors
Once I find a balance I could go down the right way"

Yes, you will stabilize, it may take a few weeks, maybe a few months, but with patience, it will happen and then you will be ready to begin a safe, careful taper towards drug freedom.

"To some extent disappointed in myself that I could not stay clean"

Well I admire you for being willing to learn about how to taper properly and then do what you needed to do to take care of yourself and your health.  That to me is real strength, when someone can admit mistakes and learn from them.

"I am far from feeling ok and I hope I did the right thing by returning to take Seroxat ..
I guess time will tell"

If you are feeling a little better or at least not worse, then I think it was a good decision

"Until then, I'm  taking it day by day, dont see any alternative.. "

This is how I've managed to get through my own withdrawal experience, by taking each day as it comes. It will get better, you will get off the drugs and recover, in time, and we are here to help.  

 

[Againstallodds]

"I hope I can reach a point were I can be free of the drugs"

You will get free, it may take some time, but you will get there

"This is the 3-4 (I do not really remember) I'm trying to get off but it's much too strong for me"

The withdrawal symptoms are strong, but you are stronger, with each day you get through, you are one day stronger.

"I didnt know then what I know now, listened to too many psychiatrists thet told me to go down too fast

That's why I started Seroxat alone, I have no more faith in doctors

Once I find a balance I could go down the right way"

Yes, you will stabilize, it may take a few weeks, maybe a few months, but with patience, it will happen and then you will be ready to begin a safe, careful taper towards drug freedom.

"To some extent disappointed in myself that I could not stay clean"

Well I admire you for being willing to learn about how to taper properly and then do what you needed to do to take care of yourself and your health.  That to me is real strength, when someone can admit mistakes and learn from them.

"I am far from feeling ok and I hope I did the right thing by returning to take Seroxat ..

I guess time will tell"

If you are feeling a little better or at least not worse, then I think it was a good decision

"Until then, I'm  taking it day by day, dont see any alternative.. "

This is how I've managed to get through my own withdrawal experience, by taking each day as it comes. It will get better, you will get off the drugs and recover, in time, and we are here to help.  

 

thanks pute, appreciate your detailed answer, support here is amazing 

I dont know how I feel 

I'm certainly not balanced yet

every moment feels different, very confused, hard to explain (especially to myself) 

I find it hard to speak even the simplest conversations, I feel like everyone judge me even people who are very close 

right now its very difficult for me to express myself properly here 

for the same unclear reason even though I know you're here to help

everything revolves fear 

On the other hand there seems to be a benefit (tiny) in sleep quality 

and fear does not come crazy crazy  Peakes

Still very difficult for me to get out, strong and irrational fears 

So, again I'm trapped 

to feel satisfaction, happiness, confidence I need to keep moving 

from the horror I stuck most of the time alone 

I have no desire to see hardly anyone even the people I love and respect scare me 

It's just insanity 

So if there is relief It is so so tiny, almost invisible 

I hope it will get better and the non-stop terrible thoughts  will calm down a bit 

and give me some space

 

  

 

 

 

 

[Jose]

Hello AAO, just wanted to check how you are doing, hope you are improving.

Best,

Jose

[Againstallodds]

Hello AAO, just wanted to check how you are doing, hope you are improving.

Best,

Jose

overall Im better

still have a lot of work to do on myself,  well part of being human I guess

but now there is more energy to do so 

I'm learning to take things into perspective, fall, get up and move on, not rushing taking day by day 

Thank you very much for your interest 

hope you are good

Take care

[Jose]

That's wonderful to hear, AAO. Keep going!

[mlrp]

I, too, am glad to hear you have gotten some level of relief, AAO.

 

Your last post reminded me of the Japanese saying, "Fall down seven times, get up eight."

 

Keep up the good work... slow and steady...

[Againstallodds]

Many thanks jose & mirp and all the other wonderful people who support 

Wishing us all to be strong in front of the imaginary demons 

Best to you all