☼ joy2730: withdrawing from citalopram, quetiapine

[joy2730]

Hi Locke

 

By treading water I am neither going up or down just staying put for now. 

 

Your comments on weight are very interesting and also very accurate.

 

I just feel that citalopram has  made me g as in weight by increasing my appetite and decreasing my metabolism.  When I once got low down on citalopram the weight just dropped off. 

 

I feel that I comfort eat a lot.  I do feel that if I get down on a lower dose it will help my weight.

 

Yes I am thinking about telling Sophie about this site.  My one reservation is that the knowledge of this site can be quite scary.

 

You have done so well to get sleep low - my dream is 10 mg.  Do you look and feel well?  Some people look much better for reducing and others worse.

[Locke]

I think everyone shoukd know about the effects of these drugs.  You really have to tell her. If its to scary for her she will just ignore the information. 

 

You aim at 10mg.  Thats oke. By the time you will get there you will have the motivation to go on. :-)  you will notice feeling yourself again. I know it is hard to believe right now. It is so freaking hard. Just keep on going, and do not lisgen to the gp. Why is he telling you it is impossible for you to go below 10..  it really pisses me of someone ssying that.  

The most outragious thing is you al have to do it alone. Not anyone in the med world understands. 

 

What helps me right now is just to accept this sjtuation. Accept all of who i am. Good and bad. I make mistakes, raising my children, in my work. But he i am human, everyone makes mistakes. I fight for my kids, for my family. And i fight to be myself again.

It also means i have fo accept the need of meds now and then. I use seroquel in a really low dose 3mg, If i cant function anymore.

If that what it takes to get of cipramil. Later w'll see if it still is neccesary when completely off cip.

 

I dont know about looks..  i have really bad days, like being paranoid and i see things. People tennd to avoid me on those days. I geuss i lookmhorrible thrn. Hahaha. My husband says i look less tense now. My weigth is good i havr an athletic body, exercising often. But like i said i really will do anything to keep my weight as it is now.

 

Do you use any other psychoactive drugs? Im  urious what makes you go up in dose?  I dont know if its a rude question sorry if it is. 

It is diffucult finding the right words sometimes. 

 

[joy2730]

2 hours ago, Locke said:

I think everyone shoukd know about the effects of these drugs.  You really have to tell her. If its to scary for her she will just ignore the information. 

 

You aim at 10mg.  Thats oke. By the time you will get there you will have the motivation to go on. :-)  you will notice feeling yourself again. I know it is hard to believe right now. It is so freaking hard. Just keep on going, and do not lisgen to the gp. Why is he telling you it is impossible for you to go below 10..  it really pisses me of someone ssying that.  

The most outragious thing is you al have to do it alone. Not anyone in the med world understands. 

 

What helps me right now is just to accept this sjtuation. Accept all of who i am. Good and bad. I make mistakes, raising my children, in my work. But he i am human, everyone makes mistakes. I fight for my kids, for my family. And i fight to be myself again.

It also means i have fo accept the need of meds now and then. I use seroquel in a really low dose 3mg, If i cant function anymore.

If that what it takes to get of cipramil. Later w'll see if it still is neccesary when completely off cip.

 

I dont know about looks..  i have really bad days, like being paranoid and i see things. People tennd to avoid me on those days. I geuss i lookmhorrible thrn. Hahaha. My husband says i look less tense now. My weigth is good i havr an athletic body, exercising often. But like i said i really will do anything to keep my weight as it is now.

 

Do you use any other psychoactive drugs? Im  urious what makes you go up in dose?  I dont know if its a rude question sorry if it is. 

It is diffucult finding the right words sometimes. 

 

No I don't use any other drugs at all.  I have withdrawn from diazepam lithium and sodium valporate these last few years.

 

I think I keep up dosing because I get scared when I get withdrawal symptoms instead of sticking it out.  I guess at that point I panic.  I haven't found any confodense to stick it out.  There is the thought at the back of myindividual that I won't be alright without the meds.

 

Joy

[Locke]

WoW.  You have a lot of experience withdrawing..!! 

Only you can decide if its possible without any.

 

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

 

[joy2730]

Thanks Locke, yes I have done the rounds of late and years ago got myself from 225 mg dothiepin to 50 mg but couldn't reduce any further.  That took me years and years to achieve.  Unfortunately I have had many years of mental ill health and treatment and don't really know how much was genuine illness and how much was the meds, but I had an abusive childhood and first marriage so I think it is probably a mix.  I was diagnosed with bipolar but as I have managed without mood stabilisers for a long time now, I have undiagnosed myself.

 

My last drug to go is the citalopram, but I don't want any withdrawal to stop me from working.  I have years on sickness benefits and am enjoying working now and even have my own little business which I enjoy a lot.

 

It is hard to think about the risks of withdrawing and the benefits.  However, after every psychiatric drug I have withdrawn from I have realised it was causing me more problems than it was curing.  I suspect the same could be true of citalopram too, I just wish the withdrawal didn't produce such dramatic symptoms.  The only way forward for me is to go very slowly.

 

Knowledge of how these drugs affect people and how to withdraw from them has improved a lot.  Years ago I withdrew from Ativan and to do so I used to keep a tiny chip of a blue pill of Ativan near the TV and if I felt ill I would go and lick it!  Unbelievable, but then no one had heard of making liquids or anything like that or weighing pills.  I would cut pills up with a veg knife and rolling pin and then mix the powder with icing sugar and then divide it into sections.  I would then fold the icing sugar into greaseproof paper parcels so give me a few days of doses.  I suppose I was instinctively doing all that is suggested on this site, but it wouldn't have been very accurate.  I remember getting quite good at the angle of the veg knife and the rolling pin to get a good clean cut.  I would then put the pill bits between bits of kitchen foil and bash hell out of it to create a powder.  I had never heard of pill crushers then, perhaps they were not readily available. Things have changed for the better.  If you talked about withdrawal in the old days you were seen as a total 'basket case'.  It was at a time that no one believed tranquillisers, sleeping pills and sedatives were addictive and antidepressants were not widely available, you had to be very ill to have them prescribed.

 

I had two pregnancies without much regards to the unborn babies re my drugs, but it all went well.  I just trusted the doctors, it is harder now that people don't trust the doctors.  I don't trust them now and they know I don't but they show me respect and still try to look after me whenever I contact them.  In a telephone conversation with one recently she said 'I don't know how you feel about this but how about going up a little for a few days and then back down'.   At least she asks now what I think about things.  This is the same doctor who said 'If you don't go back on lithium I will section you' and I replied but I am working full time and feel fine, how can you make me go to hospital, what about my clients?'  I said 'I am working away from home miles away, you will have to come here' and she backed down.  Since then she has treated me with respect as she knows she was wrong.  I complained officially that she had threatened me with sectioning to get me to continue a drug I didn't want to take. It did her good to have a complaint made against her.  She meant well but she was so wrong. 

 

However, the problem of anxiety about withdrawal is just the same and the physical and mental symptoms are just the same.

 

I have reduced my citalopram from 30 to 18mg and at one time I used to take 40 mg but it didn't suit me at all, it was just too much for me.  I feel much better at 18 than 30 but my GP practice is adamant I won't get below 10 mg.

 

Thinking about these things is a very lonely place to be, which is why a forum such as this is good, much better than years ago when I did it on my own.

[Locke]

You are very strong! Surviving all of it. Have you considered talking to a psychologist ? I assume you probably had psychologists before. But it might be of help in withdrawal. 

 

[Frogie]

Hi Joy:

 

Just wanted to drop by and say hi.

 

I see you dropped down to 17.8 and you are feeling much better. That's fantastic!

 

How is hubby doing? Hope well.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[joy2730]

Hi Frogie

 

Yes I am fine at present and seem to be a little more on track, but unsure of where I am going with it all really.  I will try to reduce a little more in the future, but I am very wary of things going wrong.  I seem to be doing better with my weight and my sleep is fine. I really can't complain at present.

 

I have been reading your thread and you have not been feeling good and you have been on your own a lot with nothing to distract you.  You have not been well and haven't been able to go to your voluntary work.  Your husband is working 7 days a week and you are on your own a lot in your small town.  But you are still doing well and keeping everything together.  Hopefully going back to your work soon will help to break your week up.  It seems to me you feel frustrated by your environment, by your small town, you are 'like a fish out of water' - not a nice feeling.  Nothing is for ever though Frogie and you will eventually move.  You haven't gone back up in dose so you are coping well.

 

My husband has had about a month of very poor sleep but he is coming out of that now and sleeping better, so hopefully he is over the worse of his tramadol withdrawal.  He looks better now and is eating better and has gained a little weight, which he wanted and needed to do.  He is very strong about pills though, he firmly believes he can manage without them, whereas I am the opposite and don't believe I can manage without anything at all.  He doesn't get stressed about insomnia whereas I do.  He is still taking his gabapentin though, which may be cushioning things.  It was strange to order his meds yesterday and not to click on the tramadol request.  All med ordering in the UK seems to be online these days.  My husband's second hip op has been totally successful, he went for a check up the other day and was 'signed off'. 

 

All told, we are both in a good place.  I had expected to be in a better place re the citalopram but it is what it is and I just don't want to risk getting ill with withdrawal at present.

 

I think excessive exercise brings on severe withdrawal symptoms for me, so when I exercised last week I took it more easy and didn't get any sudden onset of symptoms.  I think it is the same with my sauna sessions too.

 

I got 'member of the month' at my leisure centre - not for the results but for my determination and motivation.  I thought it is just the same with the citalopram situation really, no real results but determination and motivation.

 

I have been reading this site a lot but not posting recently.  I saw something on the benzo board about Heather Ashton and withdrawal from benzodiazepines - how brilliant she had been but now out of date.  I used the Heather Ashton's guidelines to withdraw from diazepam from and it worked for me.  I know now that a lot of what she suggested is not recommended anymore, but she really helped me.  It was great to see her name mentioned on a more modern website like this.

 

Take care Frogie, by the way Frogie can you get into reading any sort of book, serious or trashy or anything. I know I can't at present but I can see how it could provide a distraction.  Or do you have any 'soaps' you can follow on TV.  Do you have any evening classes or day classes in further education or leisure in your small town.  In our small town we have local history classes and such, while not exciting they provide an opportunity to meet others who may also be lonely and down on their luck at present.  Somehow we need to have purpose and pleasure in our lives.

 

I think reading this site has become on our my hobbies, I find reading other's stories very interesting and inspiring but sometimes a little scary.

 

I really hope you 'pick up' and can get to your volunteering a bit soon.

 

I have noticed you provide great support for people on this board Frogie, you always sound so warm and kind.  You clearly listen to other people and follow their story.

 

Hope you can enjoy this Monday, yes I am fine, can't complain.  Hope Brownie is good as well.

 

Your internet friend wishing you well today

 

Joy

 

 

[Frogie]

HI Joy:

 

Thank you for the kind words. I try to be kind and considerate to everyone on here. We are all here for the same reason and it's easier to talk with people and understand what they are going through. It's good support for all of us.

 

That is great that you are doing so well. Congratulations on member of the month where you work out. You do have a lot of determination and are probably looking fantastic by now.

 

I have been sick since October 12th. I was on 4 antibiotics. It was all in my throat and ear. I'm finally starting to feel better and hope I can go back to my volunteer job this week. It has been really hard, being alone while being sick, and my fiancé working 7 days a week. I started yesterday not being able to feel like I couldn't catch my breath. Brassmonkey said I had health anxiety/panic. I read an article he wrote. It was written so well, it fit me to a tee. I need to get out of the house. I feel "stuck". My uncle was here for a week, which was really nice, but he went home, and I'm alone again.

 

Our town doesn't have classes or anything. We have a "gym" of donated equipment, but they park the city trucks inside the same room, so it smells like gas and cars. I don't go. They are building a garage for the vehicles, so maybe I will go after they move the vehicles out. I have a Pilates machine and stationary bike, but I just sit and stare at them. Doesn't do me any good to just look at them, they don't work unless you use them lol... I don't like to read, and I refuse to watch soaps. I watch a shopping channel and the game shows. Very neutral and not scary at all.

 

I'm glad your husband got the all clear. That is wonderful news. Men don't seem to be as upset about things as we women are. The gabepentin does help for pain. I was on it for my fibromyalgia, but weaned off. I'm tired of taking pills for this and that.

 

My fiancé is having some problems at work. He said he needs to get through next October, then our house will be paid for and we can start looking for a house and a job for him back home. So I could be having anxiety over that too. Our house needs work done before we could rent it out, and it's things I can't do.

 

When I'm done with my Lexapro, I have to wean off Xanax. What is the Ashton method? I've heard the name but never read about it. Maybe you can give me some suggestions?

 

Well, you are probably tired of listening to me. Again, I'm so glad you are doing so well. I hope I will when I go back to my volunteer job and get out of the house again.

 

They said it was supposed to snow a little in the forecast yesterday for today (if that makes sense), but they changed it. No snow here, but where I used to live it's supposed to snow. I love to watch it snow as long as I don't have to drive in it.

 

You take care. Don't work too hard. Have a great Monday also.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

 

 

[joy2730]

Hi Frogie

 

If you google Heather Ashton something will come up and if you type in survivingantidepressantsashton something might show up.

 

Basically she recommended changing to diazepam from others such as Ativan, lorazepam, which is what I was on as diazepam has a longer half life.  I had a difficult 3 weeks of the cross over and then the diazepam settled in better.  Heather Ashton advised people to up their AD dose or start taking one to get off diazepam at that point - which is something that wouldn't be advised now.  Also if you were still getting withdrawal symptoms you could still reduce your dose as she felt it could resolve the symptoms.  This actually worked for me, but wouldn't be recommended now.  If you were having a few difficult days taking a bit more was recommended but that also wouldn't be recommended now. 

 

However it was her guidance which got me off diazepam, so for that I am very grateful.  Some of her thinking I still hold with but I recognise that the world has moved on and thinking changes.  However she pioneered slow tapering, watching symptoms and being flexible.  She also recommended the use of antihistamines for withdrawal from both tranquillisers and ADs and that isn't advised now on the whole.  I used to live on her website when I was withdrawing and then 1 week off completely I just stopped visiting it as I was so completely well then.  It was strange, one week off and it was as if I had never taken diazepam.    I had tried to follow tapering from various GPs and psychiatrists but it had never worked as it was too fast and the symptoms got the better of me.  I did it all with chopping up pills with a veg knife and rolling pin, making liquids had never been suggested.

 

I do look better in my figure Frogie, but there is still a long way to go but I feel much better in myself. 

 

I am pretty stagnant in my withdrawal as I can't risk getting ill but I am chipping away at it.

 

Tomorrow afternoon my daughter is starting a few hours work and I am looking after Esme my granddaughter.  Having Esme is making me blank out some time from my own work which is good.  I feel in a good place.  I do get worried about the number of people on this site that enter many years of health issues following withdrawal, that is so awful and not for me at all.  I would rather stay on the citalopram than risk such illness.  If I can get it down to 15 mg I might stay there forever, the risk is so awful and I have taken so many drugs over in the years and in such high dosages, always the highest dosages possible and in one case the psychiatrist prescribed them at above recommended levels.

 

It is a lovely autumn day in the UK today, so pleasant and calm and I feel confident and happy.  I have started to value myself a bit more and recognise that overworking is not doing me any good.  It is as if I am trying to prove to myself that I can do it, but for what end?  I don't actually need my salary so am just saving it at present.  However I have discussed it with my daughter and she doesn't want me to give up my work as she thinks I will then get depressed again, she may be right, just to not do as much.  She is right of course.  Tomorrow I have 3 days off with just one tiny bit of care work, putting someone to bed locally, whereas last week I worked the full 7 days.  I did want to start my own care company but I am too old really and my health has been very poor in the past, only mentally, physically it has been fine so I don't think I can take any risks on that.  My best bet is to remain self employed as I am now or if things change surrounding that, which they will, take a job working for someone else.  That way I will still be able to work but not have all the responsibility and financial worry.  It is a way forward and will enable me to get some time off, whereas if I start up on my own as a care company employing others I know I will have to work 24/7.

 

So I have identified that risk to my health, as I have the risk of entering long term protracted withdrawal after my many years of AD use and other meds.  At least I have worked out my risks and am being realistic.  When my husband retires from the farm I will need a bit of a stable income then, more than I do at present.

 

Well Frogie, it is me rambling on now, but rambling is useful because it all helps us to clarify where we are in life and where we are going, as well as where we have been.

 

It may be helping your withdrawal from citalopram - that you are on Xanax.  I am not familiar with Xanax but I think it is like diazepam but stronger?

 

Well I am off now to google Heather Ashton, apparently she is no longer in good health which saddens me as she was a forward thinker and did me a lot of good.

 

Take care Frogie, I am sure your social situation is not helping your health at all, but we can't have perfection in this world can we?  I suppose we are all just muddling along really.

 

Joy

[Flowers]

Hi Joy

 

Am catching up as have had visitors and was in a lovely window while they were here.

 

Now am back in a wave so more confined to the sofa! Glad all is well with you. 

 

Take care

 

Love from Flowers xxx 

[joy2730]

HI Flowers 

 

I am sorry you are back in a wave.  I thought things wereally much more settled with you.

 

I am doing well.but not making the progress I had hoped.  I went to my spinning class last night and felt fine then did a put to bed call and felt fine but when I got to bed I had severe restless legs.  Years ago when withdrawing from dothiepin I had the same bit it was more my whole body then but it felt the same but worse.

 

I think the exercise triggered it.  I feel really tired today but I am not working today. 

 

Overall I would say withdrawal from citalopram is bot as bad as dothiepin.

 

I am trying an unorthodox method of reducing at present which is not really recommended by many but it is based on my withdrawal from other drugs.

 

If it helps me I might ultimately share it on this site but judging by my RLS last night it may be a bad idea.

 

I have been tidying my belongings for weeks now and have found a book called the antidepressant solution by Joseph macullum - I have guessed title and author - but well known - which I must have bought years ago and never read.  It looks excellent.

 

So I am fine but tired today.

 

Joy

 

 

[Flowers]

Hi Joy

 

No, I am still getting waves. They seem to be shorter and not so strong so things are heading in the right direction. Although I feel awful sometimes I still try to get out everyday and feel better when I have.

 

I have never had restless legs - is it like you just need to keep moving them and can't relax? Like you say, perhaps the exercise stimulated you too much.

 

I am intrigued by your taper plan but understand you may not want to share it just yet.  You have had so much experience coming off drugs over the years. I have only ever tried to get off Citalopram and that has been a nightmare.  

 

I think I have the book you mention stashed away somewhere.

 

Hope you have a better night and catch up on your sleep.

 

Love from Flowers xxx

[baroquep]

Hi Joy2730, I just noticed after a post in another member's thread that you are alternating doses ... unfortunately medical doctors have very little experience tapering people off of these drugs safely and alternating doses is never recommended here at Surviving Antidepressants.  I'm going to link the topic "why taper by 10% of my dosage" and draw your attention to one of the cautions in this topic ... hoping that you will review this thread again as I'd hate for you to start running into trouble when you have gotten so low on your dose ... it sounds like you have been doing relatively well and want things to continue this way for you.  

(NEVER ALTERNATE DOSAGES TO TAPER. IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE, THIS IS SURE TO SET OFF WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS.)

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

[ChessieCat]

I was going to say the same thing that baroquep has written.

 

It would be better to reduce by less and take the same dose every day than to alternate doses.

 

Our brains like stability.  Alternating doses is not going to do that.

 

This graph is about skipping doses completely, however it can still give you an idea of what happens:  Skipping Days vs Every Day Dosing Graph

[joy2730]

Thanks for the advice, I am sure you are right, I think it is just good luck that I am doing well at present.  Why do the doctors think that alternating doses is OK?  I am aware that the withdrawal symptoms can build up and then suddenly appear all at once. 

 

It is so strange, because the idea has come from a doctor I believe it, yet all the evidence does point to steadiness. 

 

From tonight I am going to mend my ways and go back to a steady dose each night.  After all my goal now is not to taper off it is to just reduce.  I am going to follow the links above.

 

Today however I feel really well.  I am not posting much at present but am enjoying reading other's posts.  One thing that strikes me from this site is that individuals react so very differently to these meds.  Years ago I took mirtazapine for about 3 to 4 weeks before just cold turkeying it.  I had this really strong appetite on it and was literally gaining weight by the day.  At the time I had no scales so have no idea of the weight gain but it was so bad that one day I was sitting in a funeral and there was a loud pinging noise.  My tights on my thighs had just given up and snapped, it was so embarrassing and had never happened to me before or since.  Also I went to a Christmas meal and kept praying for the starter to arrive, I was so hungry, and then was desperate for the main, dessert and mince pies.  I ate everything and anything, it was horrendous. However, I have just read on this site that someone took mirtazapine without gaining weight and I know other people connected with my work who take mirtazapine and have not gained weight.

 

At the moment, due to my live-in work with dementia, I get hours in the day when I am able to read this board, however I am aware that this piece of work will not last so am making the most of my reading time, as then I will probably not have the reading time available to me when I take on something different.

[Frogie]

Hi Joy:

 

Haven't heard from you in a little while.

 

Just wanted to drop by and say hi.

 

Hope you are feeling well.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[joy2730]

Hi Frogie

 

I am really well thank you.  All I have in the way of withdrawal is a runny nose, slight sweating and a headache today.  I have had no symptoms for a while, but they take ages to show up with me.

 

Also, I didn't sleep very well last night, I was very restless.  We had a bad windy storm in the UK and I heard it all night. 

 

I was also awake thinking how well I was doing in life in general and how happy I felt (apart from struggling with citalopram).

 

Yesterday I had a lovely day, the morning at home, the afternoon at the hairdressers and then beauticians, then my spinning class, then to see Esme, then just a 'put to bed' call.  When I went to bed I was thinking of how my life felt good.

 

I think my patchy light sleep with the hint of a nightmare is part of the withdrawal showing up.  Also my evening spinning class starts at 6.15 pm and I think I do better if I go spinning earlier in the day, it is quite activating.

 

I just wish these meds were not so difficult to give up.

 

I have started following Happy2Heal on here.  I saw her thread briefly the other day, I think she is like me, many years on meds, from 18 to 61 I think, so very similar to me, I am 59 next month.  It was good to see that someone else had taken meds for nearly a lifetime.

 

It feels strange to be well and happy but yet have health symptoms from trying to reduce.  You, on the other hand, Frogie do well in withdrawal.

 

A few days ago all I had was a slight 'boaty' feeling but it has turned into something else last night and today.

 

By the way Frogie, how did you manage to get a nice doctor that you like and that seems to really care, that is really unusual these days.

 

I will post in the new few days to report back on my sleeping and other odd symptoms.

 

I have also taken up a new hobby, listening to Youtube accounts of antidepressant withdrawal - interesting really, it shows I am not the only one, as indeed this site shows too.

 

Thanks for asking after me Frogie, I read every post you make, I know that you are struggling with your back, but now have the meds sorted.

 

Take care

 

Joy

[Frogie]

Hi Joy:

 

Just wanted to say I read your "You know when you are in withdrawl". 

 

I thought your your answers were great.

 

Glad you are doing so well.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[joy2730]

Thanks Frogie

 

I haven't been posting on my own thread for a while now as I dare not progress any further at present.  I am well and so glad I no longer take 30 mg citalopram and all the other meds I used to take.  I am blessed that I got off them and it was all so uncomfortable and distressing.  I didn't work then, I couldn't.

 

Now due to my house purchasing/work/family I am holding.  I just have mild withdrawal symptoms at the moment.  If I bend over to pick something up my stomach feels so queasy.  My sleep is not what it should be but that is because I am overthinking my house move, I don't think it is withdrawal at all.  In fact if it wasn't for the house move and the fact I work such a lot I think, in a fresh clean bed in a comfortable bedroom and nothing to plan or do for a few days I would sleep about 13 hours each night!

 

This illustrates how we cannot blame everything on withdrawal, some of what we describe as withdrawal is just life, or in my case overthinking and adjusting badly to stressful events.

 

When stress hits I am at risk of not sleeping and overeating, a gross combination.  I have really tried with my weight recently and need my sleep to get better, so I need to concentrate on my coping mechanisms.  When I haven't coped in life I have ended up in the doctor's surgery and been given meds.  I guess that has happened to a lot of us on this site.

 

So I have hatched myself a plan, I am going to not stress myself out over this house purchase/move and all the money issues/land issues/inheritance etc and hold my meds steady, not resort to adding any more meds or a higher dose of citalopram, not resort to overeating and making my family's life hell by being upset/ill/depressed/anxious - and then when I am settled again I am going to resume tapering.

 

The good news is I love my work and get a lot of satisfaction out of that, and know that I am doing the right thing for my husband's health, the right thing with my son and his girlfriend moving into our farm, my daughter loves the proposed new house - there are so many positives, but I know I am an insecure, damaged individual in my core and that I have to work on.

 

This self analysis is doing me a lot of good.  My son is viewing it at 1 pm today and then if he thinks it is a good idea, subject to a surveyor's report, I will be buying. 

 

Hopefully I will be able to work through this without getting ill, but I do like things to remain quite steady and stable in my life - I suppose we all do really, and a great deal of change is probably easier to cope with when young. 

 

People who go through withdrawal and a lot of personal change at the same time amaze me, it must be like reinventing yourself completely.

 

Flowers, Frogie and Junglechicken - hope you are all well today, or at least the best you can be in the circumstances.

 

Flowers, regarding your liver testing, I am almost convinced that individuals who are poor metabolisers have the worst withdrawals as their bodies and minds have struggled to accept the drug the most and so find returning to factory settings the hardest.  Hope you can get tested soon, but will the knowledge be helpful?

 

Frogie, how is the flatness feeling?  Flat could easily lift, or may be move a little lower towards depression?  How is your appetite?

 

Junglechicken are you feeling very bruised from your last interview?  Isn't it awful, trying to prove your worth to strangers when you know yourself you are more than suitable for the job and fighting off competition?  How is the cystitis/uti/ibs?

 

Joy

[joy2730]

A quick update to say I am well in myself but making no progress with the citalopram withdrawal.  That I find very frustrating.

 

I wish drug manufacturers would come up with something to help which didn't have a withdrawal syndrome itself.

 

A sobering thought - I visited my mother last week who is 90 soon and she now has deafness and poor vision and is very anxious.  Everyone around her feels an antidepressant may help her.  Her anxiety is painful to witness - it made me glad I was feeling well.

 

I think the doctors deny the problem with antidepressant withdrawal because they are a readily available tool to fix the misery of the human race.

 

Joy

[O2bhappy]

Joy2730 -

 

I want to thank you for replying to my message on Frogie's page.  I wanted to ask which antihistamine did you take and did it help?   I have tried several and they all have caused me some sort of side effect.   

 

I am still itching and getting hives and a rash. I have been dealing with it since the end of August.  

 

Any advice or suggestions you could offer I would really appreciate. 

[joy2730]

I used phenergan 25 mg but there is a lower dose one of 10 mg.  It is an old fashioned one b ut very good.  Pharmacists steer people into the modern ones usually as they cause less drowsiness but I didn't noticed the drowsiness at all.  This might be because over the years I have taken some very sedative drugs in the past

[joy2730]

It is ages since I made a drop and still.get the odd withdrawAl symptom such as a sudden very runny nose 

[Frogie]

HI Joy:

 

Just thought I would drop by and say hi.

 

I'm doing ok. Just some anxiety, but that's because not everything with the remodel is done and my Uncle will be here Wednesday. It's little things, towel rack, caulk the tile. But still no faucet in bathtub. That's a problem.

 

Tell everyone I said hi. Flowers, Junglechicken, RachelSusan, Direstraits, Blondiee, Scorpio, Littlegrandma, Apace41,, and anyone I might have missed.

 

I'll be back for an update. You are welcome to post on my thread. I will get on when I get time.

 

Hope you are doing well with the house and your withdrawl.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Frogie]

Hi Joy:

 

Just wondered how the house was coming?

 

Are you ready for Christmas?

 

I posted on my thread what's going on.

 

Hope you are doing well.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Frogie]

Hi Joy:

 

Just wanted to drop by and say hi.

 

Hope everything is going well with your house buying and with you!

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[joy2730]

Hi Frogie

 

I keep thinking about your 'remodelling' of your house.  The house I love has quite a few faults and will need some 'remodelling' itself.  The estate agent is not being helpful.  I asked him if we could have a builder assess the roof as the roof was a concern in the surveyor's report. The estate agent replied that a roofer could stand in front of the house and see it was fine, he would give permission for ladders to go up outside but not for someone to look inside the roof.  This rang alarm bells for me.  I felt he was not the type of person I could trust, so I emailed him last night to see if there was no way in which the owners would not take less money, and if we couldn't view the roof, I was no longer interested.

 

He rang my husband this morning, as I am now away again with work, to say put in a lower offer. 

 

It is awful when you feel you are being prevented from knowing about something being wrong.

 

To be honest I have already lost a lot of sleep over this house buying already, it worries me a lot.  Putting all our cash savings into a property feels serious to me.

 

The estate agent said to me 'you are being very slow, this needs to go to the solicitor now' but I don't agree, I can spend days online and in the shops looking for lipstick or a new top and much longer looking for trousers and support wear.

 

The lack of sleep is a worry to me as I soon get depressed with a lack of sleep.  I used to sleep so well when heavily medicated and I quite miss that side of things.

 

I have now arranged to view a house of only 2 years of age next Friday, in the same location.  This may help to sort out my thinking.

 

So any tapering is going nowhere at present, I just can't get ill.  I don't feel depressed, my mood is fine but I am anxious.  Sometimes I have the beginnings of IBS again.

 

If I go for the older house I know I will have to live in chaos while work gets done, but it will provide more space probably than the new one.  However, the old one has 2 bedrooms only and the new one has 3, which would make a better swap with my daughter eventually if she did have another child.

 

Esme, my granddaughter is fine, but 'pants' quite a bit when she gets excited, I wonder if she has asthma or if there is something wrong with her heart.  I dare not mention this to her parents.

 

I hate anxiety, but I suppose it has a purpose in that it is telling me something is causing me concern.

 

How are you with your granddaughter now?  Last time I heard I think you were having problems still with whether she would be visiting  you or not.

 

Work continues to go well and gives me some stability, but I don't like all this upheaval.

 

Take care Frogie, Scallywag seems to be back and off meds.  Good for her.

 

Joy

[Frogie]

22 minutes ago, joy2730 said:

Hi Frogie

 

I keep thinking about your 'remodelling' of your house.  The house I love has quite a few faults and will need some 'remodelling' itself.  The estate agent is not being helpful.  I asked him if we could have a builder assess the roof as the roof was a concern in the surveyor's report. The estate agent replied that a roofer could stand in front of the house and see it was fine, he would give permission for ladders to go up outside but not for someone to look inside the roof.  This rang alarm bells for me.  I felt he was not the type of person I could trust, so I emailed him last night to see if there was no way in which the owners would not take less money, and if we couldn't view the roof, I was no longer interested.

 

He rang my husband this morning, as I am now away again with work, to say put in a lower offer. 

 

It is awful when you feel you are being prevented from knowing about something being wrong.

 

To be honest I have already lost a lot of sleep over this house buying already, it worries me a lot.  Putting all our cash savings into a property feels serious to me.

 

The estate agent said to me 'you are being very slow, this needs to go to the solicitor now' but I don't agree, I can spend days online and in the shops looking for lipstick or a new top and much longer looking for trousers and support wear.

 

The lack of sleep is a worry to me as I soon get depressed with a lack of sleep.  I used to sleep so well when heavily medicated and I quite miss that side of things.

 

I have now arranged to view a house of only 2 years of age next Friday, in the same location.  This may help to sort out my thinking.

 

So any tapering is going nowhere at present, I just can't get ill.  I don't feel depressed, my mood is fine but I am anxious.  Sometimes I have the beginnings of IBS again.

 

If I go for the older house I know I will have to live in chaos while work gets done, but it will provide more space probably than the new one.  However, the old one has 2 bedrooms only and the new one has 3, which would make a better swap with my daughter eventually if she did have another child.

 

Esme, my granddaughter is fine, but 'pants' quite a bit when she gets excited, I wonder if she has asthma or if there is something wrong with her heart.  I dare not mention this to her parents.

 

I hate anxiety, but I suppose it has a purpose in that it is telling me something is causing me concern.

 

How are you with your granddaughter now?  Last time I heard I think you were having problems still with whether she would be visiting  you or not.

 

Work continues to go well and gives me some stability, but I don't like all this upheaval.

 

Take care Frogie, Scallywag seems to be back and off meds.  Good for her.

 

Joy

Hi Joy:

 

Sounds like a red flag if they aren't willing to let you assess the roof. Sounds like there may be more problems than what they are saying.

 

It's not fun during remodeling. But my fiancé picked a bad time to do it. Between Thanksgiving and Christmas. I would never do anything like that again that time of year. We still have the other bathroom to do, siding on the outside, coat the roof and fix up the barn before we can rent it out and go home.

 

Maybe you will like this house better. You have to keep your mind open. It's 3 bedrooms and newer, which would mean not as many problems and a guest room if your daughter doesn't have another baby for a while.

 

I hope Esme is alright. If she's trying to catch her breath, I think I would casually mention it in front of your daughter when she does it. Maybe your daughter would take her to the dr then.

 

I still haven't seen my granddaughter. We are making a trip to spend the weekend with my fiancés parents this weekend, so I'm going to take her presents to her and see her for a little while.

 

I've been having a lot of anxiety over this trip. I have to leave Brownie at my Uncles, which is only 10 minutes away. But I have to go over and feed her and see her. I wish I could just stay home where she is comfortable. I talked to my fiancé about this at lunch today, telling him I'm having anxiety and why. He told me to stop over analyzing things and I would be fine. I know I will, but I just would rather stay home with Brownie. I wish I could have my granddaughter come here for the weekend. Then he could spend time with his parents, I could have my granddaughter and Brownie and be happy at home. But my granddaughter has plans Saturday morning. Oh well, it was a nice dream lol...

 

I'm not tapering at the moment either. Just too much going on for me. You are probably very wise to stay where you are until this is all overwith.

 

I sleep just fine, but my fiancé isn't sleeping. He worries about bills and we overspent on the remodel. I told him it would work out, but he worries way too much about money.

 

And we want to start our diet, but can't do that until I sit him down and we go through cookbooks and go shopping. He comes home, we eat , and he lays on the couch and he's asleep. I think that could be some of his sleep problems too.

 

Well, I've probably bored you enough. I wish you luck. Let me know how it goes.

 

I talked to scallywag. That is awesome she is off her meds and back!

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

 

 

[Flowers]

Hi Joy

 

It's good to read an update from you. Have been wondering how things were going with the house purchase and how you have been doing.

 

I am not surprised you are anxious - buying a house is very stressful. I am so sorry things are not going well with the house you love. What a shame.  I wouldn't be put under any pressure by the Estate Agent - they just want their commission! If someone can't let you look at a roof inside then there is something wrong I think.  Normally one would find out how much it is going to cost to do all the necessary works (like you are doing)  so you can reduce your offer accordingly.  You can't do that if they won't give you access.    If you really want the house be firm and get your quotes. Anyone else interested in  the property will have the same issues with a survey so it is unlikely they will ever be able to sell unless they play ball. Replacing a roof costs a lot of money.

 

We have been living in a building site for nearly a year now. I don't mind. We have done up houses before and I love the end product. It is worth it to get your dream home.

 

Maybe the other property will fit the bill or there will be another one that suits. I really hope you find something that will be your forever home soon.

 

I think you are wise to not taper at the moment with all this going on. Your CNS is under stress and may not cope very well!

 

Lots of love 

 

Flowers xxx

 

 

 

 

 

 

[joy2730]

Thanks Flowers and Frogie

 

You are both full of such good sensible advice.

 

This post is a little negative about antidepressant withdrawal, but I am just saying it as it is for me.  I find it very difficult and alarming to be honest.  I also find that the more I look into it there are just no answers.

 

I am quite distressed over this antidepressant business, because now if I reduce from 18 mg by even the smallest amount I get very bad headaches and a feeling that someone has put a crochet hook in my guts and turned my stomach inside out and is trying to pull my stomach through my throat in to the top of my head where it joins the headache.

 

I am sorry if this is too much information, but it a terrible feeling and seems to link in with the headaches.  It gets a really tight grip on me and distracts me from everything else.  Therefore I feel trapped.  I can't even drive properly when it comes on.  If I reduce my nightly dose by 2 pm in the next day the symptoms set in.

 

I don't mention it to my husband or daughter as it is too frightening for them and they worry I will get ill.

 

I am currently reading a book called David Healy 'The Antidepressant Era'.  I am reading it because David Healy has said somewhere else that if you really need to work he does not necessarily advise going through withdrawal if it is a problem.

 

David Healy says no one knows how antidepressant work in the body or if they work at all, but that in his opinion they work better for seriously ill people and less well for less ill patients.  He is suggesting in the less seriously ill people antidepressants are only acting as a placebo, but that in serious depression they may exert a clinical effect.  He says patients with serious depression do not respond to a placebo drug but do sometimes respond to an antidepressant.

 

He talks of vital depression and non vital depression, where vital depression has many clinical features such as slow walking, great loss of weight, loss of speech, total loss of sleep and that is the type I had.  Non vital depression is more of 'feeling low'.  This used to be called endogenous and reactive depression when I was first ill.  I clearly remember how ill I was and once my mother was told I was not expected to recover, and later my second husband was told the same.  He was also told by the psychiatrist he had to consider whether he wanted to remain in such a marriage - is that even ethical? 

 

Fortunately all that is behind me now that I have had at least 17 years of no mental illness whatsoever, but I do remember it all and it makes me nervous when I get such terrible symptoms when trying to reduce, especially as when I up the dose again the symptoms resolve so quickly.

 

There are no answers, I don't think the doctors know any answers.  If they did I would visit and take advice.  For me it is much worse than when I gave up diazepam, 2 mood stabilisers and various antipsychotics, and much worse that when I gave up other antidepressants, mostly cold turkey, when I was younger.

 

To be honest I am very lucky to be as well as I am, and considering I have not worked most of my life we are lucky that we have a bit of cash to buy a modest house and won't have to sell any land.  I have to be so careful with that cash, I can't afford to take much in the way of risk with it!

 

My house situation is difficult, I like to talk and think things through.  My daughter says I overthink and overtalk things but I don't agree with her, I think by thinking and talking you arrive at a better decision.  All this is making my daughter feel tense, I can just tell.  But by next Winter we need to have found somewhere because my husband really isn't fit to do the bulk of the farm work as he has been doing.

 

I cannot part with my cash until I am absolutely sure.

 

Having said all of this I am feeling OK as I type this, and had a good night's sleep last night.  Some of the young carers I work with are walking around with Fitbit watches on and they record how much sleep you got, and how much was deep sleep etc, they are great actually, but won't be getting one just yet.

 

If I do get ill I will just have to go through the house buying business while ill, but will give up working obviously.

 

I wish we could stay at the farm really and live there with my son and his girlfriend, but that is so not going to work, and when I mentioned it to my husband he said my son would then still expect him to work on the farm and he just doesn't want to.  He is worried that if he has a fall with his two hip replacements he will end up in a wheelchair.  I have to acknowledge his fears.

 

As you can see from this post my head is all over the place but I am well.  I also feel very jealous of people who get off antidepressants easily (thinking of my own daughter her and people like Scallywag) but I don't know why I feel so jealous?  It is a nasty feeling.

 

I read this board a lot, but am careful not to put too much on it that is negative because that must be so frightening to some readers, and all our situations are so unique.

 

Joy

[Frogie]

Joy:

 

I'm sorry you are going through all of this.

 

I'm leaving town for the weekend and won't be online.

 

But promise to answer you when I get back.

 

Hang in there!

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Frogie]

Hi Joy:

 

Just wanted to drop by and say hi.

 

Hope you are doing well.

 

I wrote what's been going on on my thread.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Frogie]

Hi Joy:

 

I saw on Junglechicken's thread that you found another house. Is it the one that you were talking about?

 

Just wanted to drop by and say hi and see how you are feeling.

 

I think my nausea is being caused by taking Vitamin E for my liver. When I take it, I get nauseous. Yesterday I didn't take it and I was fine. I decided to take it last night before bed, and I woke up nauseous. I'm going to stop taking it and see what happens.

 

Hope you are doing well.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[powerback]

Hi joy I just wanted to pop over to clear the air ,I've replied on my thread but want to respectfully say it on your thread .

I apologies ,I read your reply quickly and in a defensive manner ,that's all on me so sorry if I put you out of whack .

Total respect .

now here's the neuro guilt for me    .

Take care joy 

[Frogie]

Hi Joy:

 

I hope you are feeling better.

 

I get my glasses in a week or so. Then I can talk more without getting headaches, I hope.

 

I read an old post that you were having problems tapering. Sorry...  Hope the house is going well.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx