☼ Greentrain: The long arc of healing

[greentrain]

I am looking for some advice or reassurance.

 

---For 8 years, I was on Lexapro (most of the time at 10mg and 15 mg for last year). I tried many times to taper off of it but the anxiety was too crushing and I never got far.

 

--However, in Dec 2013 I was prescribed a remedy by a homeopath that completely wiped out the anxiety. As soon as the feelings of generalized anxiety (heart, palpitations, knot in stomach) were gone, the Lexapro felt completely too stimulating to take and I literally gained 12 lbs in a week. (My weight has been stable for over 15 years.) 

 

--So, I began to taper in January dropping 2.5 mg every couple weeks. It has been a rough ride down to 0mg at the end of May. I've now been off Lexapro for 3 months and have worked through the symptoms of anger, dizziness, de-presonalization, stomach pains, hypoglycemia, etc. with a combination of cell salts, homeopathy, supplements, EFT, meditation, yoga, and generally trying to take it easy. 

 

--However, I am still not feeling completely well. I get lightheaded, have diarrhea, and experience anxiety now (again) in waves and even had a couple panic attacks. I get cortisol surges at night in mid-dream that wake me up with my heart racing. On bad nights, I could up every 45 minutes. (Vit C and Seriphos has helped but makes me feel not so great the next day.) I am eating a low histamine diet as well. 

 

QUESTIONS - 

 

Is this a normal place to be symptom-wise for 3 months post last pill? 

 

Was my taper too fast? 

 

Where do you guess I am in the progression toward homeostasis? A year away? More? Less? 

 

What else can I do to hasten the recovery? My kids and husband have been very sympathetic but I feel terrible that we are missing out on so much. We have a trip planned in November and I just can't cancel that, too. 

 

Thank you for your help. Reading these boards over the last few months have been inspiring, consoling and generally wonderful, as I don't know anyone IRL who has gone through this. It's a lonely place to be.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2016 by scallywag
tags added

[mammaP]

Hi Greentrain, welcome to SA.   Your taper was much faster than we would advise, even though it 

probably felt like a slow taper for you.  Sadly your homeopath knows little about tapering AD's 

but meant well.   It is great that you are past the worst of the withdrawal but a shame that you are 

still feeling unwell. Everyone is different and there is no general pattern to work with in withdrawal. 

Some manage to taper fast and quit with no problem. Some quit cold turkey and are fine, others are

in protracted withdrawal for years.  

 

The fact that you had a rough ride tapering shows that your nervous system was struggling with a

taper that was too fast, and the awful withdrawal symptoms after you quit  is further evidence of a 

destabilised nervous system. I would love to say that you are on the mend and that the worst is over

but from what I've learned here, and from my own experience, this could take a long time.  You are

doing right by looking after yourself but many people find that supplements and alternative remedies

can actually be detrimental and it is possible that you are having some side effects. 

 

Take a look at out symptoms and self care forum for some excellent topics on how to deal with withdrawal.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/8-symptoms-and-self-care/

 

At 3 months off there is still a possibility that you could be helped by reinstating a tiny amount of lexapro,

perhaps 0.5mg. This may be enough to help the withdrawal symptoms but low enough that you don't get

the worst side effects.  Usually it is best to reinstate as soon as possible after quitting , the longer it is left 

the less likely it is to work but there is still a chance it could help. Not one of us here wanted to reinstate 

but many of us found some relief in doing so.  It isn't failure it is doing what is best for your brain and

nervous system.  Here is a link to the topic of reinstating and why it can help. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3079-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-stop-withdrawal-symptoms/

You could then start a slow micro taper from that tiny amount. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/406-tapering-off-lexapro-escitalopram/

 

It would help us if you could put your tapering history in your signature, then it will appear at the bottom of all 

your posts so we can see it at a glance.  Here is how to do that.  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/ 

[Rhiannon]

Agree with mammaP. Your taper was too fast. Also, tapers need to go slower at lower doses, and it sounds like you kept cutting the same amount right to the end.

 

What we recommend is a taper that's based on a percentage of your current dose not of your original dose. This paper will show you why: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6036-why-taper-paper-demonstrates-importance-of-gradual-change-in-plasma-concentration/ 

(Check out the charts on page 4 and see how the receptor occupancy drops much more sharply at lower doses.)

 

I agree with mammaP that your best bet right now would probably be to try a very small reinstatement and see what happens. If your symptoms improve that's a good sign, and in that case you should stay on that low dose for a while until your nervous system stabilizes, which can take a while.

 

Unfortunately nobody can say at this point how your withdrawal is going to play out. It's just too variable from one person to the next. Yes, for some people it's normal to be still in bad shape three months out. For some people it takes a couple of years to recover from a too-fast taper. Others recover more quickly and a very few suffer longer. I wish we could just tell you what to expect, but I don't feel confident making that prediction because people are so variable.

 

It sounds like you've been reading in the forum for a while, so you've seen the Symptoms and Self-Care section, which may have some ideas that could help you.

[greentrain]

Thank you, MammaP and Rhi!!! I really wish your answers were different, but it is what it is. I guess my next move will be contact my useless GP and ask for a prescription to liquid Lexapro. I was surprised by how low of a dose you would reinstate (0.5mg).

 

-- Do I taper up to a higher dose or do I understand correctly that I stay at 0.5mg for awhile and then attempt to do a micro-taper down 10% at a time once I'm completely stable?

 

-- What would be considered an adverse reaction to reinstatement? A worsening of symptoms (please, no) or no relief of current symptoms? 

 

-- What other options are there if the Lexapro reinstatement doesn't bring any relief? A couple years of these symptoms is unendurable and enough to throw me into a panic attack just thinking of that. 

 

You are right, Rhi, the withdrawal wasn't terrible until I got down to the lower doses, say 5mg and less. I thought I would just keep plugging away and the symptoms would resolve as they did at the higher doses. 

 

I have an appt with a naturopath tomorrow, and an appt with my homeopath on Tuesday to look at a different constitutional for me or possibly giving me the homeopathic version of Lexapro as a nosode of sorts. 

[Rhiannon]

Here's a discussion of reinstatement:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3079-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-stop-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

We like to start people with a very small reinstatement, especially as far as three months out, just to make sure it doesn't make symptoms worse. If you get improvement or no worsening, you can titrate it up to 1 mg and see what happens. I wouldn't go higher than 2 mg this far out.

 

People get improvement with amazingly small amounts. It turns out that there seems to be a big difference between "very little" and "none" as far as how these drugs affect our brains. Check out that paper I mentioned, look at those graphs.

[Rhiannon]

I would recommend if you're going to try a reinstatement, don't start some other remedy or treatment at, or close to, the same time. You need to know what is causing what, and keep a daily record of your doses and withdrawal symptoms, keep close track.

[Karma]

To answer the rest of your questions, after you stabilize on a small reinstatement then you start a micro taper off of the remaining meds.  I also second Rhi's advise to avoid starting another remedy when you are attempting to reinstate.

 

Give the reinstatement a chance and then see where you go from there.  You should know within a few days if the reinstatement is helping.  If it does help, then you when you find the level of med that gives you sufficient relief you can hold for a period of time to stabilize.

 

Please keep in mind that there are no magic treatments for resolving withdrawals.  What a homepath or a naturopath might recommend for these symptoms before SSRIs have been introduced may not work after SSRIs have been introduced and discontinued.  Our central nervous systems become hypersensitized by these drugs and the removal of them.  If you do decide to pursue a homeopathic or natural remedy start it very slowly and at lower doses than ultimately recommended.  Give yourself time to see how your system reacts to it.

 

Please keep posting your progress and asking questions.

 

Karma

[greentrain]

I'm so touched by all of your helpful responses!

 

Interestingly, I just spoke to a pharmacist about the liquid Lexapro and we got talking about Seriphos. He said anything that touches the pituitary- adrenal axis has the possibility of rewiring things permanently (for good or bad) and that supplements that touch cortisol can activate arrhythmias. I have been complaining that when I take 1 capsule my heart rate is either too slow or too fast when I wake. I had an arrhythmia for which I had a cardiac ablation 8 yrs ago so I wanted to pass this along to anyone who feels that Seriphos is affecting them in strange ways.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, greentrain.

 

We often have reports of odd reactions to Seriphos. Please use search to find our discussions in the Symptoms and Self-care forum and add your experience.

[greentrain]

A quick update at 14 weeks post stopping Lexapro -- i decided against re-instating Lexapro. All symptoms have improved greatly. I'm jogging again and feeling hopeful. Anxiety is the main nemesis but my therapist and I believe it to be organic at this point bc mindfulness meditation and distraction techniques can improve/eliminate it. I tried a very low dose of 5Htp and have been lengthening my sleep cycles to 4 hrs before waking up with heart racing. Must get brave enough to try more than 1/2 of a 50mg capsule at bedtime. Tried L-theanine, also at the recommendation of naturopath, and it gave me anxiety. Methyl B12 and methyl folate gives me anxiety so I'm going to test my methylation cycle.

 

In my experiments I find bach's rescue remedy calming and kali phos cell salts gentle. Neither give me a sedated feeling I get with lactium or gaba or 5Htp. I'm terribly sensitive, however.

 

Any comments or suggestions?

 

Anyone have experience with sleep disturbances - being jolted awake mid-dream with your heart racing. It happens anywhere from one to six times a night for me. Ekg is fine and rate resumes normal pace after about 10 secs. Does this symptom slowly fade? My experiments with Seriphos to help it failed and I don't want to test my cortisol levels.

 

As always, much much gratitude to all of you warriors helping to mop up the misinformation about ssri withdrawal from doctors, pharmacists and Big Pharma. Thank you!

[Rhiannon]

Check out the Symptoms and Self Care area, I think there will be discussions there related to your questions.

[greentrain]

Well, I think I fell for two of alexejice's common mistakes - thinking "I'm All better!" and not being very cautious of supplements. I'm back on a wave, beginning with one drop of B12 on Thursday and a new herbal tea on Saturday. Hello dizziness, haven't seen you for awhile. Sigh. 

 

I'm feeling with nutriceuticals are the only supplements my body is going to handle during this protracted withdrawal - Omerga 3's, Lactium, whey and I just ordered a Montmorecy tart cherry supplement for sleep. I took my 5Htp last night and wound up with a major stomachache. I guess my ride on that is up. 

 

Should be an interesting day - in my euphoria of feeling better I invited 20 people over for a barbecue! Eek!

 

Lesson learned. 

 

Happy Labor Day, everyone. 

[greentrain]

Hi everyone - Checking back in a month later. The month has gone pretty well overall.

 

Lesson learned - anything that touches neurotransmitters is risky. My experiment with 5Htp, which was good until it started to give me a stomachache, ended after a couple weeks, but I believe it threw me into another mini-withdrawal of serotonin for about a week and half.

 

Other than that wave, I'm improving. My sleep is getting better - hardly ever to get the cortisol surges that wake me, and I now usually stay asleep until 6 - 7:30 depending on how tired I am. Vivd dreams are still with me. I am exercising everyday. When I go back to HIIT training, I find that it's still too much, too quickly, so I walk, jog and do yoga. 

 

I have no data on this but I started to implement eating more foods rich in glutathione and my pace of improvement seemed to quicken. I'm still seeing the rewards of being low-histamine paleo. I discovered I react to chia seeds in my experimentation, however, so I'm still hyper-senstiive because I used to eat them before. I'm considering doing the autoimmune paleo protocol without the fermented foods for a few weeks and then introducing foods that I suspect I am better off without in the near-term. 

 

I'm still staying away from probiotics since many release histamine and aid the uptake of B-vitamins. Colostrum seems to be helping my gut. I've been experimenting in low doses and I like what I'm seeing thus far. 

 

My eyesight continues to be blurry and experience visual snow, especially on rainy days and when I'm in a wave or food reaction. I'm 4.5 months out since last dose. Anyone else dealing with prolonged eyesight problems?

 

I'm 4.5 mos. out from last dose. I made an eye dr appt because I'm tired of being scared by everyone telling me that eyesight blurriness is a precursor to other major problems. I've had eyesight blurriness for about five years, but before this taper it was only present a couple times a month related to my menstrual cycle and I would get it pre-taper when I ate a food that I react to, such as those with gluten, so it's not a new symptom - just an ever present one now. Thanks!!

[greentrain]

Oh, and if this gives someone else hope - I just celebrated my birthday with my family over a four day vacation. I canceled many, many events over the past eight months because of this withdrawal syndrome, and it felt so good to hike, visit sights, eat out (carefully) and generally feel engaged in life. Aside from too much chocolate giving me some brain fog and dizziness, it was symptom free. Yeah!! 

 

It does get better everyone! 

[andy]

Well done greentrain

[greentrain]

Checking in! After a solid month of September, things have gotten bumpy in October. I was diagnosed with a minor case of SIBO, and Candida overgrowth. I had my MTHFR status checked as well, and I turned out to be homozygous for 677T. 

 

The combo of the stress this news caused and the massive die-off of bacteria from diet changes and homeopathics targeted at the Candida has gifted me with a lot brain fog, dizziness, GI problems and many other hard-hitting symptoms. I spent a lot of time in bed in October when I would so rather be playing with my two young children. Somebody tell me I'm doing ok for 24 weeks out and that I'll be healthier than I've ever been once I get through the worst of the detox. 

 

This is hard. This is really hard. 

 

The jealousy, the frustration, the anger, the fear ….. 

[Meimeiquest]

You might want to watch the video on MTHFR at mensahmedical.com. We also have a methylation thread here. You have fought well!

[greentrain]

Thanks. Is the video scary? I can't handle any more information about what is wrong with me, and all of the awful things I'm destined for. I want someone to tell me what is right.

 

I need to tackle one thing at a now. First SIBO and Candida. Then, figure out methylation. Not sure how'll that'll be addressed given that one drop of B12 make me feel manic and I don't know where to begin to find a provider who understands the science. 

[Meimeiquest]

No, because the MTHFR enzyme is huge, atomic weight about 500, they don't think individual snp mutations have that much significance. It's just a different perspective. If you listen, know that a lot of the info is in the q and a. I have been greatly helped by their program, but I don't think they are hitting on all the things that can go wrong in mental health.

[Meimeiquest]

Another thought...I have been trying to figure out this gut stuff on my own, so may have erroneous ideas. But it made sense to me when I read that it is important not to push the treatment beyond easy tolerance. Someone wrote that some think it is a sign of progress to provoke die-off reactions, but it really just shows you have succeeded in overwhelming your body's detox capacities. I found it worked better for me to back off whenever I had symptoms, for example if I woke up bloated on probiotics, I would back off to just a clean diet with no probiotics, move back to probiotics when cultured veggies made me sick, etc. It is sort of like tapering drugs in reverse. If you were instructed to just push through, I think it could be very destabilizing. I hope that was the case, because if so, you might be feeling much better soon.

[Altostrata]

That's a very good point, meimei. I've always been dubious about those die-off reactions.

[greentrain]

Yes, you're right. I'm hitting more stable ground over the last couple days. I would note however, that it's often difficult to judge when you've pushed yourself too hard until it's too late. In our sensitive bodies, a little bit of a supplement or a diet change has the potential to wake you up to some pretty significant symptoms if the resonance hits. Some essential oils put externally on my body purged me for the entire next day. 

 

I have detox'ed from many things over the years, but never to the degree I felt with this Candida/SIBO die-off. It has been completely overwhelming, which confirms everything I've read about it. I think the combo of having reduced detox capacities because of MTHFR and the massive amount of healing required from Lexapro and 6 rounds of homeopathic detox has taxed every last avenue in my body this year. (It has also accelerated my recovery in many ways, I truly believe.)

 

Time to stabilize before starting herbal antibiotics for SIBO and the gut rebuilding protocol. 

 

Surrender and patience. My type A brain struggles with this! 

[Meimeiquest]

But think how much better you will feel in the end! And getting to the root of the problem will help your health in many ways, not just whatever superficial help you may have gained from meds.

 

Looking back at when my health first changed, it was evident in pictures of me ate age three, then four and a half. At three, could not have looked more healthy and effervescent. At four and a half, gaining weight, so serious. I often wondered what happened, even wondered if I had unknown sexual abuse (my parents had a couple of teen-aged relatives living with us in there)...that's how too much therapy makes you think. But now I wonder if it was the very, very severe strep infection I had at three. I hate to write this on your thread, but my parents.were into homeopathy at the time, and I had an ear infection get massively out of control to the point of hospitalization with mastoiditis. I'm wondering if the antibiotics then were the first assault as I had a lot of exzema, etc after that. Who knows.

 

But anyway, I am glad you are feeling better. Mix a little type A with a little mad and you'll do fine .

[LexAnger]

Hi greentrain, How are you doing since the last post?

[greentrain]

Hi LexAnger, I'm about 9.5 months off Lexapro. It's slow going but I'm definitely in a better spot physically and mentally than I was 6 months ago. The healing keeps coming. I just had a nice 6-7 day window. It wasn't completely symptom free but things were good during it. AND I actually felt happiness and a quiet mind during a couple days. It was lovely.

 

The overwhelming fear and worry has been really tough. 

 

It's a long uphill but I'm seeing old, big symptom patterns breaking down. I noticed recently that over the past month I'm having a wider variety of symptoms that cycle in milder and shorter than in the past and head out quickly. Don't know what that means but going to assume it's a good thing!

 

We'll get there! You're doing it the right way - slooooowww taper. Wish I knew. 

[LexAnger]

Hi Greentrain, thank you for responding and the update!

Knowing so many of us here suffer for a lot longer without major improvement, I am very happy for you that you had good improvement over the short period of time. It sounds insane to think 9 months is ashore time giving the hellish torture but it's true for this hellish situation.

 

I have been struggling around lexapro 2.5- 4.5 mg for almost 2 years still in hell. Doing a micro taper simply I can't live with any other options. At least you are free off the meds and moving with healing. I would think changing is good when you are off the drug as it means your body is adjusting and dealing with the new condisuption of your natural self.

 

Thanks for hanging around, we need each other to continue the incredible journey.

[greentrain]

I know! We do need each other. 

 

I get overwhelmed when I think how long it takes to recover fully but we've just got to keep putting one foot in front of the other and surrounding ourselves with positive energy. I'm hoping there are some big breaks around the one year mark off.

 

Try to focus on the symptoms that have healed rather than the symptoms that are still hanging on. 

 

Do you read Baylissa's Facebook page? It helps me greatly, as does her book. 

 

https://www.facebook.com/BloominWellness?fref=nf

[LexAnger]

Wow, just got a chance checking out the linked page! So inspiring!

I'll share with others I follow and are struggling.

 

Thanks so much for sharing!

[greentrain]

Makes me smile just knowing I could help you in the smallest way. 

 

Remember that this is temporary; just a chapter in the greater novel. xo

[greentrain]

Hi everyone ... A well overdue update from me... I read and lurk a lot but haven't had the courage to post because I have really needed to surround myself with as much calmness and positivity as I could. I am almost 19 months off Lexapro, the only drug I've ever taken. What a ride it has been. I am still not back to myself but I am MUCH more functional than I was last year at this time.

 

The emotions are much less intense and more regulated. The crazy hormonal symptoms have eased and the pain is less and usually manageable. I can eat a much wider diversity of foods and the gastro symptoms continue to get better. I usually can make the plans I set, but sometimes I still get knocked out and have to rest. I found that I turnd big corners at 10 and 16 months off. 

 

In the past two years, I have tried almost everything a person can do to heal...I'm serious...myofascial release, acupuncture, Reiki, homeopathy, GAPS, functional medicine with herbs and supplements, health coaching, nervous system repair work with an expert from Australia, lots of meditation, EBT, EMDR, therapy, etc, etc. I have a lot of observations but I don't plan for them to fully gel until I get back to complete health. 

 

As you all are experiencing yourselves, this injury has been absolutely devatasting for me and my family. I'm treating my daughter for major iatragenic injury and my father is extremely ill with a third cancer that is iatragenic in origin also. Add my ugly story with psychiatry and medicine and there has been some major spiritual rooting that has been necesary to be with the anger and resentment. I don't by any means profess to be proficient at being with this chaos and fear, but I know that I am not alone, as I have a small but rock solid support network, and that someday this dysfunction will wash out of me. 

 

The work's evolving and transformational. 

[Altostrata]

Very happy to hear you're doing better. I added our cheerful "here comes the sun" symbol

☼

to the title of your Intro topic, to show you're recovering.

Please continue to let us know how you're doing. I hope you will add your story to our Recovery Success Stories eventually!

[nz11]

Wow greentrain thanks for taking the time to update.

 

That is a great update and so encouraging to hear of improvements.

 

Doctors sure have a lot to answer for.

[greentrain]

Oh, believe me, I dream of the day I can write that story. Thank you for all you do, Alto. 

[Altostrata]

You're very welcome, greentrain.

[Purplestars22]

Greentrain, awesome that you turned a corner from now on its just going to be more healing. It's great that you are being proactive of health and taking charge on trying different things. I hope you well and look forward to reading your sucess story, ps22.

[greentrain]

NZ11: There is a lot to account for. I fantasize about the day when I can inform them that their "do no harm" oath has failed in my case. Where are you now? Please tell me that you are not still suffering after 5 years. This is why I've had to stay away for the past year or so...I feel so terrible for all of us suffering greatly. 

PS22: You're two years off. I imagine that the 2 yr mark is a signficant milestone for healing? I hope so!