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The Gupta Programme and the Amygdala part of the brain firing off symptoms


historygal
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I know this has been talked about a tiny bit on here but I am not sure whether people out there know much about it, it seems supplements are given more credit on here. After being on ADS (prozac 20mg) for 6 months and being tapered too quickly. I like many others on here am experiencing an intense withdrawal which is now on 8 months+, my main symptom and issue is the pain im in caused by a prolonged muscle spasm and symptoms which are associated to Myofascial Pain Syndrome (localised fibromyalgia).  In the last 8 months have been researching to hell and back about Withdrawal and the chronic conditions that Withdrawal can either copy or that can develop. I have no idea if mine is permanent but I wanted to do something about it. I came across the Gupta programme which was created by Ashok Gupta a gentleman who had CFS and Cured himself, his programme is also geared towards fibromyalgia and pain syndromes, PTSD, Gulf War syndrome and GAD and and other anxiety related issues. I had actually been looking on the NHS- the British website for our National Health Service in which there was a forum that somebody said they had cured them selves off this. The basic premise is that the part of the brain the Amygdala is in temporary trauma- not permanent, google Amygdala it is the part of the brain which is responsible for emotions,pain and sending out messages to your nervous system. The trauma is temporary and can be reversed, however like anything you need to work on it! This follows recent work in Science that the Brain is not transfixed but actually creates thousands of Neurons everyday. The programme is about NLP and uses techniques such such as Meditation, vizualization and his main Technique which is called the Main Amygdala Retraining Technique which when used all help to calm the system down, and thus helping the part of the brain to get out of Trauma. I like you was sceptical until I read the forums in Britain about how people with lifelong Fibromyalgia and CFS were able to follow this programme and within 6 months to a year + were cured or feeling a massive improvement.

   In taking this theory I think applying it to Withdrawal, it still fits and explains why many of the symptoms are similiar or common to many chronic conditions. I have seen people post so much about supplements, but if I am honest taking supplements in my opinion isn't going to stop the process of the WD. They may help aid the process, but the temporary damage is in the brain and to the nervous system unless you are calming that down via meditation and diet as well as trying to retrain your brain to get out of trauma, it will continue for years. Research suggests that it takes 6 months to rewrite a story for your brain and this is done through repetition, love positivity and happiness. The more you are caught up in the cycle of WD the more WD carries on. I myself am a victim of this, I moan Im in Pain every day but the more you moan about something the more the brain is getting the message to be in pain. The Gupta programme is about getting out of this by interrupting negative thought patterns and replacing them with new positive ones. The programme does cost money but nothing in this life is free (including supplements and drugs), some people scoff that it costs but to ask someone to produce a programme for free with DVDS and worksheets to help you is ridiculous. if you have tried drugs (they got you into WD) and if you tried supplements (they help but dont cure) then its well worth trying something that involves just you and your brain. I have bought the programme myself and will be documenting my progress (if any) and will be posting it on here. food for thought...

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just a Caveat to this. I would say that if you are still on medication or are tapering off I am not sure whether the programme would have a great effect, as having the drug in your system would still cause  the Amygdala to fire off symptoms, if you think about it your taking a drug that is disturning the natural order of things thus creating chaos to the system and body. I would suggest trying this once you are off all medication. I am not on any and have stopped caffeine, Alcohol, gluten, and reducing dairy. You need to eat a healthy diet free from sugar as well, as this causes the system to be more hyperactive increasing the symptoms.

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  • 1 month later...

Hello Historygal,

 

I wondered how you are getting on with the Gupta programme? I already had ME for 9 years prior to getting AD withdrawal and the Gupta programme was definitely helping me. However nothing prepared me for the w/d symptoms and I had an overnight crash that left me with the severest depression and ME (and other frightening brain symptoms) I've ever had.

 

Still, I am trying to carry on with the Gupta programme since I know it did help me before, and fear / fearful thoughts are probably a big barrier to recovery. However my brain is tired and it's hard to visualise health or meditate in the mental state I'm in. I had one of the coaches round to my house to help adapt the programme for someone in this situation which was helpful.

 

Anyway, I wondered how you (or any others) were getting on with it.

 

Picchy

Sufferer of moderate ME/CFS since 2005

Started 20mg Citalopram in March 2008 due to bereavement

Was fine since then with no adverse effects or depression - so decided to taper off

Came off it in March 2014 after a five-month taper, which I thought was a long time

Experienced a month of uncharacteristic depression in April 2014

Two months feeling fine

In June 2014 return of depression then an overnight physical crash leaving me debilitated in July

Tried to take moclobemide at low dose for 2 weeks in July but severe reaction

Housebound since then, ME now severe

No meds taken

Female, 38 years old

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  • 4 months later...
  • Moderator Emeritus

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

Oct 2022       4.5 mg Lamictal    (off Celexa, off Xanax)   0.95 Valium    Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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  • 2 years later...

Does anyone know about the Gupta limbic retraining program and if it actually works for people in withdrawal? It sounds promising.

May 2015-October 2015-Lexapro 20 mg fast taper due to pregnancy-no issues

Feb 2017-Zoloft 25 mg, too anxious/digestive issues (on for 3 weeks), switched to Lexapro 10mg, Mild serotonin syndrome from mixing lex with trazodone 2 weeks into Lexapro, body could no longer handle 10mg. Reduced to 5mg, then to 2.5, then stopped all together after 2 weeks on lex as I couldn't handle the agitation. 

March 2017-Seroquel-1 dose for sleep-panic and heart racing-discontinued

March 2017-Put back on 2.5 mg of Lex to titrate up slowly. 2.5 for 10 days, up to 5 for 5 days, dark thoughts, agitation, insomnia, reduced back down to 2.5mg and dr added remeron 7.5mg for sleep. Could not tolerate the two together (felt like ants in my head), so stopped Lexapro. Was good for 10 days then wd set in....nausea, shakiness, anxiety, complete insomnia.

 

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  • 2 years later...

A comment on the Gupta Programme:  I discovered after purchasing the program that it does not allow you to download any of the meditations or other audio material onto your phone or an Mp3 player.  For me, this is a fairly major negative.  You can purchase, for extra $$, a USB stick that has all the material on it so you can access it offline but you can't download material from that either.   

1994  Venlafaxine XR 300mg, 2003 tapered, 2004 off briefly back to 37.5 then 75mg, held, June 2019 up to  150mg, Aug.12 tapered down to 112.5mgs, Oct. 21, 2019 96mg;  Dec. 8, 2019  90mg, Jan. 8 2020 81mg, Feb. 4, 75mg;

2003/2004? Diazepam 10mg/bedtime

2013 Lyrica 300mg to 25mg; April 6, 2020 17mg; April 28, <5mg; May 7, 2020 Lyrica 0 mg!

2013 Tramadol 50mg tablets, 200mg/day divided

2005? Trazodone 50mg bedtime, Feb. 12, 2020 40mg, March 7, 25mg; Oct 1 20mg

2009? Zolpidem 5mg at bedtime. Nov. 9, 2019 Zolpidem 0 mg! 

1990? Omeprazole 20mg in morning.

2010? Levothyroxine 75mcg morning

2011? Liothyronine 5mcg morning

1999? Buspirone 30mg twice a day  August 2019 15mg once a day,  Oct.21, 2019 2.5mg evening  Oct. 25, 2019 Buspirone 0 mg!

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  • 2 years later...

I hadn't previously thought to search for this on SA. My head can still be full of mud sometimes. In any case I am going to give this a try. I don't expect it to solve all of the issues I still deal with because drugs like Seroquel taken long term at high doses do far more than just throw the limbic system out of whack. At this point in my life modifications have been made to pretty much every cell in my body an it will take a long time to reset everything but learning to calm the limbic system certainly cannot hurt the process. Since I am still on low dose Paxil and Tegretol I really don't know if I can actually fully heal up until I am off everything but now that I have been off the seroquel for 15+ months I am hoping to find some sort of equilibrium again before moving on to reducing the Paxil and I think the skills taught in this program will help. I will post updates as time goes by to let people know if it helps or not.

Current Psychiatric Medications

  1. Paxil 10mg daily (a.m.) 2017 - Present
  2. Carbamazepine 400mg daily (split half a.m. and half p.m.) 2011 - Present

Recently Stopped Psychiatric Medications

  1. Seroquel - Tapered from 700mg to 0mg From April 2018 to August 2021 - Final Dose 6.25mg - In Recovery

Past Psychiatric Medications From 1994 to April 2018 -  Depakote, Lithium, Risperidone, Xanax, Lamotrigene, Olanzapine, Lorazepam, Welbutrin, Trazodone, Oxazepam, Gabapentin, Abilify, Topiramate, Prazosin, Ambien (See Attached Spreadsheet And Seroquel Tapering And WIthdrawal Summary)

Current Non Psychiatric Medications Levothyroxine 88mcg (a.m.)-Vitamin D3 1000 IU (p.m.)-Fexofenadine 180 mg twice daily -Metoprolol 25mg (p.m.)-Azelastine Nasal Spray-Ipratropium Bromide Nasal Spray

Other - Fish Oil Twice Daily-Multi-Vitamin (a.m.)-Vitamin C 1000mg Daily (a.m.)-Saline Nasal Spray-Benadryl-Salsalate 750mg twice daily PRN, Diclofenac Gel on affected joint PRN-Alpha Stim-M electrotherapy device (TENS Pain)-Magnesium Glycinate 25mg twice dailyQuitting Seroquel_A Vacation In Hell_Redacted.pdfmedication history spreadsheet.xlsx

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

UPDATE

 

Here is a link to the GUPTA program you-tube channel. This particular series of videos in this link are about what is actually happening in the brain that is causing symptoms. The introductory video and the first 3 sessions are actually free to anyone so there is no worries about sharing them. They actually encourage it. Here is the link. I just signed up for the full program and am going to start in on it tomorrow. I will post again after a few weeks and let people know how it is going.

 

 

Current Psychiatric Medications

  1. Paxil 10mg daily (a.m.) 2017 - Present
  2. Carbamazepine 400mg daily (split half a.m. and half p.m.) 2011 - Present

Recently Stopped Psychiatric Medications

  1. Seroquel - Tapered from 700mg to 0mg From April 2018 to August 2021 - Final Dose 6.25mg - In Recovery

Past Psychiatric Medications From 1994 to April 2018 -  Depakote, Lithium, Risperidone, Xanax, Lamotrigene, Olanzapine, Lorazepam, Welbutrin, Trazodone, Oxazepam, Gabapentin, Abilify, Topiramate, Prazosin, Ambien (See Attached Spreadsheet And Seroquel Tapering And WIthdrawal Summary)

Current Non Psychiatric Medications Levothyroxine 88mcg (a.m.)-Vitamin D3 1000 IU (p.m.)-Fexofenadine 180 mg twice daily -Metoprolol 25mg (p.m.)-Azelastine Nasal Spray-Ipratropium Bromide Nasal Spray

Other - Fish Oil Twice Daily-Multi-Vitamin (a.m.)-Vitamin C 1000mg Daily (a.m.)-Saline Nasal Spray-Benadryl-Salsalate 750mg twice daily PRN, Diclofenac Gel on affected joint PRN-Alpha Stim-M electrotherapy device (TENS Pain)-Magnesium Glycinate 25mg twice dailyQuitting Seroquel_A Vacation In Hell_Redacted.pdfmedication history spreadsheet.xlsx

 

 

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UPDATE

 

Not sure why that video is no longer available but oh well.

 

I have watched the videos for the first 4 sessions of the program. What they talk about makes very good logical sense. They do a very good job of explaining why these techniques are helpful and do it in a very clear, simple, logical, and easy to understand format. What I have read and listened to so far I have found very informative and useful and can definitely relate things back to my experiences in PAWS.

 

I have been doing morning and evening 20-30 minute meditations along with 5 minutes of alternate nostril breathing morning and evening just prior to the meditation as suggested in the initial videos that are free. Surprisingly enough, my sleep improved on the first night and has stayed improved. I am still having symptoms that wake me up however it is now much easier to stay relaxed and fall back to sleep relatively quickly so I am getting better rested which is important to healing. That alone has made things worth it. I am still waiting for my course materials and thumb drive to arrive.

 

There are 2 issues that people should be aware of if you decide to try this.

 

1) There is a meditation app they recommend. It is not included with the program and is a third party app. It does cost quite a bit for either a monthly or yearly subscription so be aware of this. I am going to use free meditations available on youtube along with the ones that are included in the course.

 

2) If you want to work with a coach, I do not, they also work off of separate web sites and they charge fees that are not included in the program. So, if you want to work with a coach their sessions run roughly the same as going to see a therapist in the USA.

 

Beyond that I am very happy I was informed of this program and so far I feel that it will be helpful in dealing with some of the anxiety and trauma experienced in PAWS as wells as with some of the other trauma I experienced in the medical / mental health system since the program is also designed to help people with dysautonomia and anxiety.

 

If you do not have the money or just don't want to spend it their youtube and facebook pages have plenty of free stuff you can watch that is helpful and informative. The session 3 videos are great as they give a good explanation as to the theory of what is happening in the brain that is generating symptoms. Even if I had only watched those session 3 videos and nothing else I feel I would have benefited from this program since it took some of the fear out of what is going on.

 

I will update again as I move through the course.

Current Psychiatric Medications

  1. Paxil 10mg daily (a.m.) 2017 - Present
  2. Carbamazepine 400mg daily (split half a.m. and half p.m.) 2011 - Present

Recently Stopped Psychiatric Medications

  1. Seroquel - Tapered from 700mg to 0mg From April 2018 to August 2021 - Final Dose 6.25mg - In Recovery

Past Psychiatric Medications From 1994 to April 2018 -  Depakote, Lithium, Risperidone, Xanax, Lamotrigene, Olanzapine, Lorazepam, Welbutrin, Trazodone, Oxazepam, Gabapentin, Abilify, Topiramate, Prazosin, Ambien (See Attached Spreadsheet And Seroquel Tapering And WIthdrawal Summary)

Current Non Psychiatric Medications Levothyroxine 88mcg (a.m.)-Vitamin D3 1000 IU (p.m.)-Fexofenadine 180 mg twice daily -Metoprolol 25mg (p.m.)-Azelastine Nasal Spray-Ipratropium Bromide Nasal Spray

Other - Fish Oil Twice Daily-Multi-Vitamin (a.m.)-Vitamin C 1000mg Daily (a.m.)-Saline Nasal Spray-Benadryl-Salsalate 750mg twice daily PRN, Diclofenac Gel on affected joint PRN-Alpha Stim-M electrotherapy device (TENS Pain)-Magnesium Glycinate 25mg twice dailyQuitting Seroquel_A Vacation In Hell_Redacted.pdfmedication history spreadsheet.xlsx

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

UPDATE

 

I received my course materials in the mail and watched some more of the videos. It turns out that I was already doing most of what they recommend except for the daily breathing and meditation exercises.

 

I have had 28 years of therapy, outpatient programs, etc so most of it was not new to me including their main retraining techniques. Though there are components of going through withdrawal and PAWS that this program does not address such as the damage that gets done outside the brain as well as the physical damage to the brain itself, I still think it is an excellent and very comprehensive program and would be helpful to many. It brings together components of CBT, DBT, Yoga and meditation, diet, exercise, etc. Much of it follows along with the various recommendations I have found here on SA to help with the healing process. For someone who has not had years of therapy and is not a research hound like myself it is a perfect one stop shop for much of what you would need to do to help your recovery along. I haven't seen anything within the program yet that was not useful. They do recommend a couple of supplements but as we all know on SA supplements are at your own risk and possible peril.

 

If you decide to try this keep in mind several things.

 

1. If you only do the main program it is expensive up front but cheaper than therapy and you can do it at home at your own pace.

2. Coaching is not included in the price. If you want to use a coach their coaches have their own web sites and you have to go to them directly and pay for it. They seem to average $100 to $150 per hour.

3. Some of the Webinars are free as is some of the group coaching but not all of it is free.

4. Their meditation app that they recommend also costs extra. There are plenty of free meditation videos on YouTube that you can use instead. That's what I am doing.

5. For the most part you really don't need the extras unless you really want a coach to help you along. The core program materials are enough and there are plenty of other free options that you can marry up to this program on your own. They do recommend taking what they teach and customizing it to your own needs so that is what I have done.

6. Before you pay for this program make sure you watch the videos that are available for free on their YouTube channel to see what it is all about if you think it may be helpful to you.

Current Psychiatric Medications

  1. Paxil 10mg daily (a.m.) 2017 - Present
  2. Carbamazepine 400mg daily (split half a.m. and half p.m.) 2011 - Present

Recently Stopped Psychiatric Medications

  1. Seroquel - Tapered from 700mg to 0mg From April 2018 to August 2021 - Final Dose 6.25mg - In Recovery

Past Psychiatric Medications From 1994 to April 2018 -  Depakote, Lithium, Risperidone, Xanax, Lamotrigene, Olanzapine, Lorazepam, Welbutrin, Trazodone, Oxazepam, Gabapentin, Abilify, Topiramate, Prazosin, Ambien (See Attached Spreadsheet And Seroquel Tapering And WIthdrawal Summary)

Current Non Psychiatric Medications Levothyroxine 88mcg (a.m.)-Vitamin D3 1000 IU (p.m.)-Fexofenadine 180 mg twice daily -Metoprolol 25mg (p.m.)-Azelastine Nasal Spray-Ipratropium Bromide Nasal Spray

Other - Fish Oil Twice Daily-Multi-Vitamin (a.m.)-Vitamin C 1000mg Daily (a.m.)-Saline Nasal Spray-Benadryl-Salsalate 750mg twice daily PRN, Diclofenac Gel on affected joint PRN-Alpha Stim-M electrotherapy device (TENS Pain)-Magnesium Glycinate 25mg twice dailyQuitting Seroquel_A Vacation In Hell_Redacted.pdfmedication history spreadsheet.xlsx

 

 

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I have something to add to my post above. The GUPTA Programs underlying theory is that things like IBS, chronic fatigue, dysautonomia, etc are something called a Neuro-Immune Conditioned Syndrome (NICS). This is to say that these conditions are caused by disruptions in the nervous system and immune system due to various triggers including toxic exposure. So, I think this definitely would also include components of withdrawal and PAWS.

 

Unfortunately for all of us these medications were conceived of at a time when it was still largely believed that the nervous system and immune system were 2 entirely separate and independent systems. It was also thought at the time that communication was largely from the top down not the bottom up. This has of course all been found to be wrong. The nervous system and immune system work hand in hand and could actually be thought of as the Neuro-Immune system. There is actually a relatively new field of medicine known as Neuro-Immunology.  There is also another discipline called Neuro-Endocrinology which I have not read much about yet. Both systems use the same chemistry to communicate both internally and to communicate with each other (ie: serotonin, dopamine, etc). As such both systems use similar neurotransmitter receptor sites. As a result, taking a drug like an anti-psychotic or antidepressant which are disruptive to the nervous system also causes similar and very much unknown disruptions to the immune system. This happens because the drug alters communication between the 2 systems and also alters the internal communication within the immune system. So, during PAWS it is not only the brain that has to revert back to it's pre-drug state, the immune system has to do the same as does all of the cross communication circuits between the nervous system and immune system. These drugs cause direct disruption to the hypothalamus, among other things, which is the master controller for the Autonomic Nervous System (ANS) which partially controls immune function. This may explain where things like food sensitivities come from during PAWS due to wildly whacked out nerve and immune signaling that is suddenly taking place. It also explains why going cold turkey is so much harder and more disruptive than tapering. It's no wonder that recovery takes so long and the symptoms are so wildly varied and unpredictable. There is no way for the body to do all of this quickly because I think that if it did try to do that it would probably kill you in the process and since your body is programmed at birth to survive it will go at whatever pace it needs to to keep you up and running and alive. As a result the process is very slow and unpredictable and varies from person to person.

 

Having said all of that I definitely thing this program brings components of may different disciplines together in a very nice neat package that could prove useful to many people trying to navigate PAWS. It may not be able to speed the process up but it can give you a good foundation for healing without having to spend countless hours researching.

Current Psychiatric Medications

  1. Paxil 10mg daily (a.m.) 2017 - Present
  2. Carbamazepine 400mg daily (split half a.m. and half p.m.) 2011 - Present

Recently Stopped Psychiatric Medications

  1. Seroquel - Tapered from 700mg to 0mg From April 2018 to August 2021 - Final Dose 6.25mg - In Recovery

Past Psychiatric Medications From 1994 to April 2018 -  Depakote, Lithium, Risperidone, Xanax, Lamotrigene, Olanzapine, Lorazepam, Welbutrin, Trazodone, Oxazepam, Gabapentin, Abilify, Topiramate, Prazosin, Ambien (See Attached Spreadsheet And Seroquel Tapering And WIthdrawal Summary)

Current Non Psychiatric Medications Levothyroxine 88mcg (a.m.)-Vitamin D3 1000 IU (p.m.)-Fexofenadine 180 mg twice daily -Metoprolol 25mg (p.m.)-Azelastine Nasal Spray-Ipratropium Bromide Nasal Spray

Other - Fish Oil Twice Daily-Multi-Vitamin (a.m.)-Vitamin C 1000mg Daily (a.m.)-Saline Nasal Spray-Benadryl-Salsalate 750mg twice daily PRN, Diclofenac Gel on affected joint PRN-Alpha Stim-M electrotherapy device (TENS Pain)-Magnesium Glycinate 25mg twice dailyQuitting Seroquel_A Vacation In Hell_Redacted.pdfmedication history spreadsheet.xlsx

 

 

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