Jump to content
SurvivingAntidepressants.org is temporarily closed to new registrations until 1 April ×

Lithium Orotate


Pzen

Recommended Posts

Regarding the OTC Lithium orotate, the fact that it's not in WebMD's database is possible a red flag. They do list other supplements.

2009: Cancer hospital said I had adjustment disorder because I thought they were doing it wrong. Their headshrinker prescribed Effexor, and my life set on a new course. I didn't know what was ahead, like a passenger on Disneyland's Matterhorn, smiling and waving as it climbs...clink, clink, clink.

2010: Post surgical accidental Effexor discontinuation by nurses, masked by intravenous Dilaudid. (The car is balanced at the top of the track.) I get home, pop a Vicodin, and ...

Whooosh...down, down, down, down, down...goes the trajectory of my life, up goes my mood and tendency to think everything is a good idea.
2012: After the bipolar jig was up, now a walking bag of unrelated symptoms, I went crazy on Daytrana (the Ritalin skin patch by Noven), because ADHD was a perfect fit for a bag of unrelated symptoms. I was prescribed Effexor for the nervousness of it, and things got neurological. An EEG showed enough activity to warrant an epilepsy diagnosis rather than non-epileptic ("psychogenic") seizures.

:o 2013-2014: Quit everything and got worse. I probably went through DAWS: dopamine agonist withdrawal syndrome. I drank to not feel, but I felt a lot: dread, fear, regret, grief: an utter sense of total loss of everything worth breathing about, for almost two years.

I was not suicidal but I wanted to be dead, at least dead to the experience of my own brain and body.

2015: I  began to recover after adding virgin coconut oil and organic grass-fed fed butter to a cup of instant coffee in the morning.

I did it hoping for mental acuity and better memory. After ten days of that, I was much better, mood-wise. Approximately neutral.

And, I experienced drowsiness. I could sleep. Not exactly happy, I did 30 days on Wellbutrin, because it had done me no harm in the past. 

I don't have the DAWS mood or state of mind. It never feel like doing anything if it means standing up.

In fact, I don't especially like moving. I'm a brain with a beanbag body.   :unsure:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

I basically CT'd off Cymbalta after a manic-y reaction (which proved I had bipolar). All sorts of drama, which I think was WD, forms of anxiety. They added lithium (in a full therapeutic dose) because APs were not helping, and I was back to work in just over a month, those symptoms never to return (until tapering). Obviously the paradigm was different, but I think the lithium lowered glutamate. Etc., to stop the WD symptoms. Glad you are feeling better!

 

Meimei, how did an adverse reaction to Cymbalta prove you were bipolar?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I basically CT'd off Cymbalta after a manic-y reaction (which proved I had bipolar). All sorts of drama, which I think was WD, forms of anxiety. They added lithium (in a full therapeutic dose) because APs were not helping, and I was back to work in just over a month, those symptoms never to return (until tapering). Obviously the paradigm was different, but I think the lithium lowered glutamate. Etc., to stop the WD symptoms. Glad you are feeling better!

 

 

Meimei, how did an adverse reaction to Cymbalta prove you were bipolar?

You know, people who respond badly to antidepressants are bipolar...to them, to me then, but not to me now. "Antidepressants trigger mania in bipolar patients."

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

I basically CT'd off Cymbalta after a manic-y reaction (which proved I had bipolar). All sorts of drama, which I think was WD, forms of anxiety. They added lithium (in a full therapeutic dose) because APs were not helping, and I was back to work in just over a month, those symptoms never to return (until tapering). Obviously the paradigm was different, but I think the lithium lowered glutamate. Etc., to stop the WD symptoms. Glad you are feeling better!

 

Meimei, how did an adverse reaction to Cymbalta prove you were bipolar?

You know, people who respond badly to antidepressants are bipolar...to them, to me then, but not to me now. "Antidepressants trigger mania in bipolar patients."

 

 

^^^This is what DSM-5 says (with some leeway), though DSM-IV did not.

 

 

This is an article about how it's handled in DSM-5.

 

Several new subthreshold groups of depression, bipolar disorders and mixed states are now operationally defined in DSM-5. In addition, hypomanic and manic episodes occurring during antidepressant treatments are, under certain conditions, accepted as criteria for bipolar disorders.

http://www.journalbipolardisorders.com/content/1/1/12

 

 

Incidentallly, this NYT feature by Andrew Solomon starts with a sad story about a woman who goes off her AD to have a baby. He says she relapsed into depression. See what you think. I think she was BP all along and had a terrible mania/psychosis WD syndrome. (Trigger warning--it does not end well.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/31/magazine/the-secret-sadness-of-pregnancy-with-depression.html

 

 

Aha! Googled. Solomon omitted from the Times piece that she had a drinking problem, too.

http://tinyurl.com/nn5n2c6

 

I wonder if Lithium is safe for pregnancy?

 

2009: Cancer hospital said I had adjustment disorder because I thought they were doing it wrong. Their headshrinker prescribed Effexor, and my life set on a new course. I didn't know what was ahead, like a passenger on Disneyland's Matterhorn, smiling and waving as it climbs...clink, clink, clink.

2010: Post surgical accidental Effexor discontinuation by nurses, masked by intravenous Dilaudid. (The car is balanced at the top of the track.) I get home, pop a Vicodin, and ...

Whooosh...down, down, down, down, down...goes the trajectory of my life, up goes my mood and tendency to think everything is a good idea.
2012: After the bipolar jig was up, now a walking bag of unrelated symptoms, I went crazy on Daytrana (the Ritalin skin patch by Noven), because ADHD was a perfect fit for a bag of unrelated symptoms. I was prescribed Effexor for the nervousness of it, and things got neurological. An EEG showed enough activity to warrant an epilepsy diagnosis rather than non-epileptic ("psychogenic") seizures.

:o 2013-2014: Quit everything and got worse. I probably went through DAWS: dopamine agonist withdrawal syndrome. I drank to not feel, but I felt a lot: dread, fear, regret, grief: an utter sense of total loss of everything worth breathing about, for almost two years.

I was not suicidal but I wanted to be dead, at least dead to the experience of my own brain and body.

2015: I  began to recover after adding virgin coconut oil and organic grass-fed fed butter to a cup of instant coffee in the morning.

I did it hoping for mental acuity and better memory. After ten days of that, I was much better, mood-wise. Approximately neutral.

And, I experienced drowsiness. I could sleep. Not exactly happy, I did 30 days on Wellbutrin, because it had done me no harm in the past. 

I don't have the DAWS mood or state of mind. It never feel like doing anything if it means standing up.

In fact, I don't especially like moving. I'm a brain with a beanbag body.   :unsure:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

No, Meimei, that is an adverse reaction being misdiagnosed as a psychiatric condition. This has caused untold millions of people to get a diagnosis of bipolar disorder and a nice psychiatric drug cocktail they don't really need.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lithium is a definite unsafe for pregnancy.

 

I agree, Alto. It's a common, common story right now. I have written of friend's son who was diagnosed with bipolar because he couldn't sleep after starting Zoloft. So over medicated, never tried even reducing the Zoloft. Another friend was started on AD's, then told "now we have to deal with your anger,". Now can thank Geodon that he weighs nearly 400 lbs.

 

The double jeopardy is that if you have tardive WD symptoms after the AD is CT'd, then you REALLY have bipolar.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator
The double jeopardy is that if you have tardive WD symptoms after the AD is CT'd, then you REALLY have bipolar.

 

 

I've never heard of this, Meimei. Can you explain further?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

 

You know, people who respond badly to antidepressants are bipolar...to them, to me then, but not to me now. "Antidepressants trigger mania in bipolar patients."

 

Meimei i am sorry but you are misinformed  this is complete nonsense....

Ad's and esp ad withdrawal cause manifestations that tick every box in the fraudulent DSM manual.

You cant diagnose a brain altered by potent brain altering chemicals.

 

Would you say that a person exhibiting heroin wdl is bipolar ...NO , heaven forbid that person is suffering drug wdl.

Its no different for us.

Akathisia has good and bad days and comes and goes during the day in waves and so a pharma indoctrinated doctor who has been told there is no wdl then  will make incorrect calls on what is occurring...because he is clueless! 

The tragic thing about this is that ssri wdl can last for years but heroin wdl so i am told lasts about 2 months!!

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, I don't believe this, but there are many, many doctors who believe this.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Westcoast i just had a quick read of this

http://www.journalbi.../content/1/1/12

"In DSM-IV, the change of major depression into hypomania under antidepressant treatments (ADs) was in principle an exclusion criterion. In DSM-5, that change - provided it persists at fully syndromal level beyond the physiological effect of the treatment - is explicitly a criterion for bipolar II disorder. DSM-5, like DSM-IV, allows some scope for clinical judgment as to causality. In addition, DSM-5 provides new formal criteria for substance/medication-induced bipolar and related disorder. "

 

If i am reading this right then this is a sickening disgrace!! A pharma boon. The pharma drag net has been widened once again.

 

'beyond the physiological effect of the treatment' ...i guess this is 2 weeks after stopping the drug right?..or maybe its 2 days...? ...2 hours??

 

"DSM-5, like DSM-IV, allows some scope for clinical judgment as to causality. In addition, DSM-5 provides new formal criteria for substance/medication-induced bipolar and related disorder. "             ...let me interpret this....     we here in the medical profession are well within our rights to blame the person and not the poison and hence can prescribe further poison cocktails...and also if we think manifestations might possibly be due to medicines then we can still prescribe more medicines!

 

Enough is enough!!

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

Yes, there are many doctors who believe that adverse effects from antidepressants indicate bipolar disorder -- which is nonsense.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, I don't believe this, but there are many, many doctors who believe this.

Good for you Meimei

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sadly the indoctrination and brainwashing is rampant within society. Last Nov i was in a meeting and a person changed the topic and started talking about her 'bipolar' father then went on to say it was obvious he had a chemical imbalance. Oh my i wanted to speak up and say something others were agreeing as if they could relate. These were non-drugged people. I felt so sick. I stayed quiet and said nothing...if i had no-one would have believed me anyway.

 

 

You know i really love America for many reasons.. for example their inherent national sense of justice and fairplay.....for within a short time of being introduced to the game of soccer America has smelled a rat and like a dog with a bone has sorted out the racketeering and given Fifa a well overdue kick up the backside....then why cant they see through this pharma crap?

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use many supplements and am a proponent of trying natural remedies over meds any day, but when a supplement has the duality of a bright as well as dark side, especially in terms of multiple endocrine and major organ dysfunction, my better sense tells me not to mess with it. In my case, it would be of interest in helping benzo withdrawal and rebuilding GABA receptors, however, it's a double-edged sword because I'm already hypothyroid and struggling to treat it and keep my good T3 and T4 levels going. LO can depress those levels. Of course, as with any natural or synthetic substance, the effects are usually dose-dependent.

 

Possible dangers of a“nutritional supplement” lithium orotate: https://www.aacp.com/pdf%2F0213%2F0213ACP_Letters_Balon.pdf

MEDS SUMMARY:

1) Valium: 10mg avg prn from 09-06-14 to 10-20-14
2) Xanax: 0.75mg avg prn from from 09-19-14 to 10-16-14
3) Lexapro: 5mg q.d. from 10-06-14 to 10-16-14
4) switched immediately to Clonazepam: 0.5mg average/day for 2 weeks (10-17-24-10-30-14); titrated to 1mg (0.5mg bid) on 10-31-14 to present; started microtaper @ .625% (.0031250mg x 2) from 08-09-15 to 08-15-15; .800% (.0038750mg x 2) from 08-16-15 to present; destabilized 08-19-15 (due to change from original tablet); reinstated, on day 54, and have tapered a total of 14% as of 09-30-15 with zero symptoms (knock on wood)!
5) Lamictal: 100mg q.d. from 10-23-14 to 12-04-14; started tapering 12-05-14, 25mg every 2 weeks; destabilized 01-15-14; reinstated 01-22-15 at 25mg q.d. from 01-24-15 to 02-19-15; cut approx. 3-4mg every 5-10 days until 03-22-15, then cut 2mg every 5-6 days until 05-12-15; holding at 4mg q.d. from 05-13-15 to present.
Detailed Analysis - Lamictal history: https://app.box.com/s/rnermghleue9aemyhd57l1a00gsk2i4u

6) Also taking meds for blood pressure (Coreg @ 6.25mg b.i.d. and Losartan @ 50mg b.i.d.) + for blood clot I had back in 2012 (Xarelto @ 10mg) + for hypothyroidism (Armour Thyroid @ 1grain q.d.)

 

HISTORY & SUPPLEMENT LIST: https://app.box.com/s/mc9mch8za2lbizgs9z8j4mzhz2oswn8l

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

I started using Lithium Orotate Monday afternoon. It lifted my depression within 1 hour. I took 5 mg Tuesday, 10 mg Wednesday and 15 mg today. It is helping with my depression and suicidail thoufhts but I do feel more anxiety from it. I wk start 20mg tomorrow and stay there for 3-4 weeks and then go up more I'd needed. I prefer anxiety over delression and horrendous thoughts. I will

Update soon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Excited to see and hear about this! just posting so I get notifications as this thread gets updated ????

 

*Currently at 8.2-8.5 mg of my 10mg pill of Paxil (they actually weigh 12.5mg) 

january 2023 I began reducing my med again. I was a 9mg weight for years, I went to 8.9 in January, went to 8.6mg in February, and in March 2023 I went down to 8.5-8.2 mg ( my scale varies, so I stick within that .3 range because of that) 

*No other supplements or vitamins 

*Taper schedule in the pdf 

Blank.pdf

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-5vShtJtwAOGA30OxIP87steLmMdFzD29F0fzAPD564

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

If you start to get adverse effects from taking lithium orotate, you may be taking too much.

 

It's better to take a lesser amount and let your nervous system gradually adjust. Don't try to bludgeon your nervous system with drugs.

 

More is not better when it comes to psychoactives.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator Emeritus

Alto:  

Yes, there are many doctors who believe that adverse effects from antidepressants indicate bipolar disorder -- which is nonsense.

 

Which is EXACTLY how I got diagnosed - by my BEST FRIEND!  She, an MD, said, "You know, you react to SSRI's, you might be bipolar!"  

 

So conundrum: is it HER fault I'm labeled bipolar?  Of course not!  It's that danged DSM, and her education by the drug companies!  (She has since come around, and though she's not in public practice, she hears ALL ABOUT SA from a medical perspective!)

 

DeeDee writes:  

I started using Lithium Orotate Monday afternoon. It lifted my depression within 1 hour. I took 5 mg Tuesday, 10 mg Wednesday and 15 mg today. 

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa!  This set off alarm bells for Alto, and it does for me.  First, if something "lifts your mood" within an hour, and it's not chocolate or coffee or booze, then you're probably getting a placebo effect.

 

MORE IS NOT BETTER, especially with toxic substances such as lithium.  If 5 mg felt so wonderful, why did you increase it?

 

In the days of royalty, when you had a taster for your food, the king (or wizard, or advisor) might take tiny doses of the poison to develop defense from it.  Think of lithium in this light.  It is not a "necessary mineral salt" as John Grey claims.  It is a toxin, which has a deadening effect.  Take as little as possible to get the effect you need.  

 

Two of us on this thread are suffering from toxicity from this drug - and it's different from antidepressants, which fiddle your neurons without even asking for your name.  This drug just gets heavier and heavier the more of it you take, until your health is ruined.  

 

IF you can get benefits from tiny amounts (5 mg) OR - you can get BLOOD TESTS to monitor toxic effect higher than that, then consider this supplement.

 

That said, MeiMei and I got our toxic poisoning from lithium WHILE WE WERE TAKING BLOOD TESTS, and the decline went unnoticed until we started to complain of other symptoms.  IF I HAD NOT COMPLAINED and INSISTED, I would still be on the big dose of lithium, and headed for dialysis, with my psychiatrist nodding and cooing that lithium is so "wonderful," and my "diabetes insipidus was not from the lithium," and that "really, only 10% suffer kidney failure."  (according to FDA, that is VERY high, and the actual numbers increase per annum after 10 years!)

 

This is a serious toxin, and not recommended.  And especially not in doses above 5 mg, unless you can get someone to monitor your blood.  

 

Please be careful DeeDee.  This is not a "happy pill" or even a "pick me up."  Can you get sunlight and exercise instead?  They are not toxic at all!

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

After having no success with different pharmaceutical antidepressants I bought lithium orotate. It worked for me, I'm happy to say. It took a few months of adjusting between 5 mg to 10 mg and I also took SAMe as a mood and energy enhancer, but not much, about 50-100 mg. (by cutting the 200 mg supplements). My depression has been coming and going for many years but when it came it was the really bad type. I lost two family members to suicide so wasn't messing around. This time it lifted just like a thick fog and hasn't returned. I do owe it to lithium this time. It was great because I always found antidepressant drugs wired me up and I couldn't sleep at night. On lithium orotate I slept very well and that's all part of healing, important to me anyway. Don't know if it works for everyone since we're all so different. I'd say if you've tried everything else and no success, try it. It's a low dose and shouldn't hurt any organs or glands. I still occasionally take SAMe for mood and energy.

I live in a valley in BC that is known for a fog blanket that Is here blocking the sun for much of the winter and now I look out and marvel at the snow on the trees instead of bemoaning... no sun. Things are looking ⤴. Hope this helps someone.  

post-6443-0-78857600-1452147352_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's an amazing story. And I love the photo! But in my opinion it would be worthwhile to have someone keep an eye on your kidney and thyroid function. Lithium carbonate and lithium orotate contain very different amounts of lithium per a given mg dosage (orotate much more), but the action from both is from the elemental lithium, at least as I understand it. I am not saying it's not very beneficial, it just needs to be approached with as much care as lithium carbonate.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Safety of low-dose orotate

 

Lithium orotate has received only minimal evaluation in terms of its safety. One 1979 study in rats found it more harmful than the conventional form (lithium carbonate) to the animals’ kidneys. Smith That study seems to have brought an end to scientific study of the orotate approach.

 

But was it a fair evaluation? Do the math, a reader says: “the authors cite a dose of 2 mmol/kg of Li. That translates to 14 mg/kg, or >750 mg for a small adult!” Thank you, Peter. In testing lithium orotate, the investigators selected a dose roughly equivalent to the full adult human dose (e.g. 1500 mg in a larger adult).

 

Thus the doses that are sold on the internet, which are far below those used in bipolar treatment, have not been tested for their safety. Even the low-dose lithium tested for prevention of Alzheimer’s, described above (blood level 0.2 – 0.4), is higher than what you find on the internet, which is often as low as 5 mg per pill. By comparison, to get a blood level of 0.2 would generally require about 150-300 mg per day of lithium carbonate, depending on your kidney function.

 

The single 1979 study leaves open the question of safety of lithium orotate in human kidneys. Is it more or less risky than lithium carbonate, the version in prescription pills? This is a complete unknown.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Later on in that article the doctor recommends kidney function testing in that dosage range. It is, of course, your choice.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry for the unidentified post. (accidental) It was from Pzen's recommendation about "Maybe We All Need a Little Bit of Lithium" in the New YorkTimes. The point I took from the article is we would never try anything if we depended on studies that are many times biased or even wrongly done. (who sponsored the labs for the lithium orotate trial?) The makers of pharmaceuticals do that all the time and even cover up or fail to disclose things they should. Dr's are misled and then leave it up to us to do the clean up after things go wrong. I took Celebrex for a couple of months and had kidney problems but nobody warned me. I found out online it can harm kidneys in a very short time but on the other hand some people have used it for years and never had a problem. Heck, most doctors can't even agree on how to dose thyroid medication and natural vs. synthetic is a huge issue. Of course who wants you to take synthetic?

 

I can't see the harm in a low dose of lithium orotate, tried temporarily or even, as I did, changing the dose frequently according

to how you feel. Even St. John's Wort is recommended to be used temporarily but it has it's benefits so people use it for awhile and then taper off and even some use it on weekdays and stop on weekends to give their body a rest. You can overwhelm your body with table salt too. Taking 100 mgs of lithium orotate could be dangerous but I doubt that 5-10 mgs would harm the kidneys or glands and it has the definite ability to calm the deep, inner anxiety that comes with PTSD as well as manic depression. It is good to listen to alerts but we have to be balanced. Listen to your body. Don't rush into anything. It took awhile to break and will take awhile to repair. We're all a little cracked anyway!! Thanks to all for the links to other info.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First, my apologies...I thought that quote was from psycheducation.org...it is worded almost exactly the same. I am not at all against low-dose therapy, I don't know if I will go off lithium completely myself. And I totally disagree with Dr. Breggin that it is only a sedative..it may be the most effective psych drug out there.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Meimeiquest, I'm new to the site and glad to get your view on things. I will probably need lithium again down the road so now

I've learned lots from this blog to keep me informed. Glad to hear you say that as I feel the same way that lithium is a very

effective psych drug but it got a bad rap. I'll check back now and then to see what's new. Take care.....(yeah the horse and cat arecute aren't they)I like cheery pics.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 weeks later...
  • Moderator Emeritus

LJay wrote:

I can't see the harm in a low dose of lithium orotate, tried temporarily or even, as I did, changing the dose frequently according

to how you feel. 

Actually, that is not how lithium works.

 

It is about "levels."  It's not a quicker picker upper, or a lift, contrary to what 7-Up says.  One of the studies on this page even said that SHORT TERM lithium treatment can INCREASE dementia & problems, while it takes at least TWO WEEKS or more to start achieving benefits.

 

That tells me that going up or down according to mood is counter productive.  Furthermore, SA promotes stability as an important part of healing.  Yo-yo'ing your dose in anything, whether it's Paxil, Lithium, or St. John's Wort - is not helpful for mood stability.

 

Now - for my own progress:  I've dropped the lithium carbonate totally (It was an accident).  I've been off of it for a week (sorry, sig update to follow).  

My intention was to add 1.25 mg lithium orotate for a total of 112.5 carbonate + 2.5 orotate.  BUT I accidentally dropped the 112.5 carbonate, so I am on 2.5 orotate ONLY.

 

So I should be doing better with the toxicity, but I'm not.  The annulare granuloma that I associate with liver / kidney toxicity is increasing again.  My kidneys are not doing better, the parathesia is worse.

 

so - um.  The plan is to go back to 1.25 orotate, and leave it there.  I hope this doesn't mean I'm crashing in April / May. (3 month delay from precipitous drop).

 

Emphasis:  I am still getting toxic effects from 2.5 mg lithium, because of long term use.  I am not super sensitive to supplements, and have not recently been in withdrawal.  

 

This is a metal which gets heavier and heavier the more you use it, until it starts taking out other organs.  It is not to be taken casually or lightly.

 

The blood tests don't hurt at all.  But doctors here quite frown upon the lithium orotate, and you might have to take a scolding when you ask for a blood test.  

 

Yes, it is a clue and a warning, that WebMD does *not* list this supplement (they do list St. John's wort).  In my opinion, after suffering toxicity from this metal, I believe that Nancy Mullan's 70 mg recommended dose is wayyyy too high.  

 

I used to say, in my days of excess:  "Some is good, more is better, too much is just right."

 

I've changed that to "Some is good, less is better, and none at all is best of all."

 

I'm still afraid to quit it entirely, especially given the mood difficulties I've had in the past couple of months.  But if I can get by on 1.25 mg or less, that will be better.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...

This is a copy of a letter from my friend few years ago:

 

“The last few months have been very trying as my mum’s health has deteriorated so

badly and so quickly that her body was starting to shut down.  My mum was so independent, but now her symptoms are unbelievable:

  • Bladder incontinence (total)
  • Shaking and delusionary
  • Signs of diabetes
  • Couldn’t walk shower, etc
  • Didn’t want to cook, clean, get out of bed
  • Had to use a walker or wheelchair
  • No joy …etc, etc

Anyway, after seeing many doctors my sister and I decided to put mum in a nursing

home.  Then my mother collapsed in the mall one day and was hospitalized.  In

hospital a doctor read mum’s notes and immediately said it was a lithium (an ingredient in many anti-depressants) overdose!  Mum was in hospital for a week where she had to learn to walk again. The Doctor weaned her off the lithium and she is now almost 100% back to her old self: 

  • She is not incontinent
  • She is not diabetic
  • She is not shaking or delusionary
  • Mum is now taking care of herself…
  • Etc, etc!

To think my sister and I were arranging for her to go into a dementia ward!  I’m so

mad at these useless doctors, where is the duty of care?  Where is the responsibility?  Who is going to be accountable?  What about all the other people I see in the nursing home and dementia ward that probably shouldn’t be there?”

1995-2007      20mg Aropax/Paxil for pain.  Years of up and down doses

2008                Endep, Lexapro and then Esipram (hell!) CT (oh dear!)

2009                20mg Aropax.  Tried skipping doses for a year (more hell!)

                        2010                10mg.  10% taper.  Lasted 4 months. Crashed again

2011                5% taper. 9mg-7mg (hell got even worse!)

2012                2.5% taper.  6.6mg – 5.6mg (worser still & unbearable)

2013                5% taper.  Big mistake.  5.5mg – 4.6mg  (even worserer)

2014                2.5% taper.  4.9mg – 4.5mg;    2015 2.5% taper 4.4 - 4.0mg

2016                2.5% taper.  3.9mg  Feb 3.8   Mar 3.7  May 3.6   Jul 3.5

2017                2.5% taper.  Jan 3.4;   Mar 3.35;  Apr 3.3; Oct 3; Dec 2.9;

2018                2.5% taper. Jan 2.8; Mar 2.7; Mar: 2.75; Jun 2.7; Aug 2.6; Oct 2.5; Nov 2.4; Dec 2.3

2019                Jan 2.2; Feb 2.1;

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 7 months later...

Been using it for about 2 weeks now. Not noticing anything weird except I'm not having manic bouts anymore and I'm 98% sure it's from the lithium orotate. It just feels really clean and stabilizing. I think you're physically in a more sensitized state than I am since you're still weaning. I would check for any interactions with Paxil first and if you try it, please be very careful. I'm using the one from "Advanced Research" on Amazon.

Tapered off Paxil 12.5 MG in 2010 after 8 years at age 35.

Was awful as expected but manageable since I stayed on a low dose of 1.5MG. 

In 2013 -  I decided to go on 2.5 MG of Celexa. 

In Feb 2016 -  I went off the Celexa with little to no withdrawal except for some small mood changes. 

October 2016 -  At month 8 of no Celexa, feeling depressed and anxious went back on 5MG, day 3 had major adverse reaction, akathisa stopped medication

Nov 2016 - Took diazapam 5mg in varied doses of 5mg or 2.5mg per day, stopped after 2 weeks, horrible tinnitus

Dec 2016 - Subjective akathisia has not stopped, became dangerously unhealthy, had to medicate:

5mg Propranolol 3x per day stopped early January 2017, no withdrawal from stopping

Dec 3, 2016 - started .25 Klonopin 3x per day (did not want to do this but had no choice)

Dec 8, 2016 - started 12.5mg Lamictal (can't really tell if this is working or not)

Dec 11, 2016 - started 100mg Gabapentin in effort to lower tinnitus, hard to say if it helped but probably not

April 2017 - down to 45mg of Gabapentin, still on Lamictal and Klonopin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

Please be very careful about having regular bloods tests to check your liver, kidney, and thyroid function when taking any over-the-counter lithium supplements.

 

Although they tend to be weaker than the prescribed lithium drugs, they can still damage your organs. A do-it-yourself dosage level might feel safe, but lithium has powerful internal effects, too.

 

The amount of lithium found naturally in drinking water, even in areas with high lithium, is still very low. If you experiment with lithium supplements, minimize your dosage and heed the warnings.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I took Lithium Orotate for a few months. I did not take it over and above the recommended dose. I was advised to stop taking Lithium Orotate after it was discovered that it caused transient renal dysfunction. I have to say that I don't think I benefitted from taking this supplement in terms of any kind of improvement in my withdrawal symptoms. Simply my experience. 

1979 put on Clomipramine.
Failed attempt to withdraw from Clomipramine started on Seroxat 1992.
1997 Effexor replaces Seroxat after failed withdrawal.
2011 fail to withdraw from Effexor despite combined use of Prozac and Seroquel. Started on Cymbalta.
Anxiety not resolved by Cymbalta so taper off by 28th March 2012. Left on 10mg Buspirone and 1 quarter of 5mg Diazepam.
Anxiety at times very severe. 19th May take my first half of a 5mg Lamictal.

As of 5/11/2013, off all psychiatric drugs. Doing better but hope for more healing yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

Vanora, did you get a kidney function test or did you stop because you were alarmed by the warnings?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My doctor had me undergo a kidney function test Altostrata.

1979 put on Clomipramine.
Failed attempt to withdraw from Clomipramine started on Seroxat 1992.
1997 Effexor replaces Seroxat after failed withdrawal.
2011 fail to withdraw from Effexor despite combined use of Prozac and Seroquel. Started on Cymbalta.
Anxiety not resolved by Cymbalta so taper off by 28th March 2012. Left on 10mg Buspirone and 1 quarter of 5mg Diazepam.
Anxiety at times very severe. 19th May take my first half of a 5mg Lamictal.

As of 5/11/2013, off all psychiatric drugs. Doing better but hope for more healing yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

Good thing your doctor was so conscientious. Do you recall the dosage of lithium orotate you were taking?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have such a hazy memory for that particular time in my life but I know I didn't go beyond the suggested dosage on the supplement bottle. Sorry I can't be more precise than that. 

1979 put on Clomipramine.
Failed attempt to withdraw from Clomipramine started on Seroxat 1992.
1997 Effexor replaces Seroxat after failed withdrawal.
2011 fail to withdraw from Effexor despite combined use of Prozac and Seroquel. Started on Cymbalta.
Anxiety not resolved by Cymbalta so taper off by 28th March 2012. Left on 10mg Buspirone and 1 quarter of 5mg Diazepam.
Anxiety at times very severe. 19th May take my first half of a 5mg Lamictal.

As of 5/11/2013, off all psychiatric drugs. Doing better but hope for more healing yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • Moderator Emeritus

Lithium benefits are found in the water.

 

Taking lithium means you need to drink lots and lots of water.

 

The concentration in the water is tiny, tiny - maybe 1/50th of what you will find in the smallest lithium orotate pill.

 

I figured that in order to take a 5 mg lithium orotate pill, I needed to drink something like 30 litres of water daily, if I were to make the lithium to water ratio the same as provided in places by Mother Nature.

 

So - if you're going to take lithium, my first caveat is - stay hydrated.  It only takes one dehydration event to create a toxic situation, and once you have damaged a kidney, they don't heal so well. 

My next caveat is - get blood tests, even at the 5 mg orotate level.  Test for kidney and liver function as if you were on carbonate.  Tests in mice showed that the mice taking orotate had higher kidney malfunctions than carbonate - this is why the pharmaceutical industry went with carbonate.

 

Next suggestion is to keep on top of your electrolytes.  Learn what your kidneys do, and how to keep them happy.  I do this with pink salt, but sea salt is probably fine, too.

 

With the warnings out of the way, here is what I found in my notes:

 

Low Dose Lithium Uptake Increases Longevity in Humans

 

and:   Due to the large mass of the "orotate" portion of molecule, each 100 mg of lithium orotate contains only 3.83 mg

of elemental lithium, as compared to 18.8 mg in 100 mg of lithium carbonate.]

(from Consumer Labs)

 

http://www.madinamerica.com/2015/03/long-term-use-lithium-can-cause-kidney-failure/  (note, this is the pharmaceutical one, but lithium is still lithium, and is metabolized in the kidneys.  Even low dose lithium can cause damage)

 

Now to read the thread and respond to what people have written here.

 

NOTE:  I take 1/3 of a 5 mg lithium orotate tablet.  I have some kidney damage from lithium carbonate use for 10 years, but never needed dialysis.  I have bouts of diabetes insipidus (peeing a lot).  I check my kidney function at least 2x a year.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator Emeritus

San Pellegrino water anyone? (contains lithium and is much cheaper than a supplement). The very first comment in that linked piece is by our very own GiaK.

 

I like San Pellgrino - but - it's not cheaper than Lithium Orotate, which comes to about $5/month at a 5 mg dose.  (less for me)

 

MeiMei posted:

Nancy Mullan MD on Amy Yasko and lithium: http://nancymullanmd...author/nmullan/ 

 

Mullan recommends a lot higher dose of lithium orotate than I would ever consider.  The psycheducation.org site said if there was ANY problem with thyroid, he wouldn't use it.  And in our fluoridated society, with autoimmune epidemics (Hashimotos anyone?) - that could be 30-40% of the female population, lower in the male population.

 

I have no thyroid left to destroy.

 

LoveandLIght said:

I take lithinase..natural lithium supplememnt..wonder what the difference is..

Do we need to get tests though to check that a toxic level is not building up even from the supplement form?

It does say that 'normal' (prescribed) lithium reacts with sertraline - not sure if it's the case with the other psych drugs..but still wonder if natural sourced lithium is alright?  

 

Lithinase contains 50 mcg (micrograms!) of "chelated lithium."  

 

As there are variances between aspartate, carbonate, orotate, and citrate - we don't know what it was chelated with.  It might be high absorption, it might just be a supplement created to make a buck.

 

YES, as Alto said - a drug interaction is a drug interaction is a drug interaction.

 

ALL lithium is "natural."  It comes from rocks.  The difference is how it's bundled so that you can take it in a capsule or tablet without chewing on the rocks.

 

LoveandLight again:

Also ingesting any sort of lithium, do you not need to have regular kidney, liver, thyroid tests? 

 

Where is the line between a scrape and an abrasion?  How can you tell if you've damaged a kidney or your liver?

 

I recommend regular thyroid tests for anyone who has taken psych drugs.  I recommend regular liver tests for anyone with a BMI over 35.  I recommend regular kidney tests for anyone with symptoms.  BUT even then - I had symptoms, and my p-doc said my tests were fine.  My orthomolecular doc looked in greater detail, and could see that my kidneys needed support.

 

So - what is the line between injury and damage?  What is the line between metabolism and toxic?

 

Is it 5 mg per day for 9 months?

 

Is it 60 mg per day for 3 months (that's the level Nancy Mullen recommends, and that seems way too high to me!)?  12 months?

 

So here's how I think about it.  If you're going to take 5 mg a day for 3 months, you're probably okay.  But if you are taking it for more than 6 months, start thinking about a testing regimen.

 

Anything more than 5 mg a day, for any length of time, consider getting testing.

 

I'm taking into consideration that most people here have had drug loads for years, sometimes, and may be more sensitive than most people.

 

A normal, healthy person (why would they want to supplement with lithium, then?) could probably take 5 mg indefinitely, if they didn't want to drink alcohol or take NSAIDS (which increase uptake of lithium), and stayed hydrated.

 

There are many variables.  So be conscientious.  

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use Privacy Policy