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Lithium Orotate


Pzen

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  • Moderator Emeritus

After re-reading this thread, I'm seriously re-evaluating my lithium use.

 

I don't have a thyroid - but I had a major thyroid crash in January/February, that I'm just now pulling out of.

 

I am not a chemist or a biologist, so do not understand the organic chemistry of lithium in a person with no thyroid.  Maybe it makes it difficult for me to convert the thyroid that I take into useable form?  Maybe it contributes to pooling?

 

I will be taking this up with my orthomolecular doctor next time I see her.  She didn't prescribe or recommend it - but if, when I tell her about my major crash (and having these crashes can cause damage to my adrenals, my joints, my cardiovascular system!), she may pull me off of it.  I take a tiny amount, and stay hydrated, and get tests - but - even then, maybe it's not good for my endocrine system.

 

Stay tuned.  

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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Jan do you take the OTC lithium? How many MG do you take? I see in your Sig that you had been on it for 10 years as of Feb 2016.

Paxil 20mg started around 2013 dropped to 10 mg at some point dropped to 5mg for 1 week then C/T August 2016.

 

Buspar 10 mg 2x daily started 2013 fluctuating amounts.

 

Tried cylexa 1 week at beginning of August 2016.

Tried wellbutrin 1 week after cylexa stopped both.

 

I have been off all meds for around 4- 5 years.

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I just saw this thread for the first time. I've used lithium orotate short term very successfully. It was very helpful for a very specific period of detox and then I didn't need it anymore. (it in fact started feeling awful...heavy and oppressive, after feeling really good and helpful...I may experiment with truly trace amounts at some point (less than .5 mg a day) ...but for now I've discontinued it altogether) 

 

I wrote about minerals in general and how I used the lithium in the below post if anyone is interested. I do think it's worth being concerned about levels especially when our detoxification pathways are so messed up during protracted withdrawal (a lot of us anyway, have detoxification pathway issues) 

 

here's the article...the lithium section is about half way down (marked with a yellow graphic): Remineralization…a good thing to do in preparation for drug withdrawal (as well as for general well-being) https://beyondmeds.com/2017/01/22/remineralization/

Everything Matters: Beyond Meds 

https://beyondmeds.com/

withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.
 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Oooh, goody.  I discovered some of the lithium orotate was in my trace minerals, a liquid preparation which I have been taking for about a year now.   They have served me very well.  It's a very small dose.

 

And......I, like you, GiaK had tried a larger dose some time ago, with some bunches of other supplements without a good result........I was still on the drugs/meds too or perhaps in withdrawal from something(lot's of med changes in my psychiatric patient career).......without knowing I was in withdrawal.

 

So......great.........to see a bit more on all this.......perhaps I will need to cut back a bit at some point too.

 

Thank you guys.

 

and best, love, peace, healing, and growth!

 

mmt

Late 2023- gone to emeritus status, inactive, don't @ me, I can check who I've posted on, and I'm not really here like I used to be......thanks.

Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988.  In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm.

Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time).

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!  Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to

2016 Dec 16 medication free!!

Longer signature post here, with current supplements.

Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed.  Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022.  Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜

None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider.  My success story:  Blue skies ahead, clear sailing

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Moderator Emeritus

I take 1.67 mg of OTC lithium orotate, but - will be re-evaluating it, as I cannot seem to get my thryoid right, and I'm concerned it's interfering with uptake of my thyroid.  I have no thyroid gland, so need thyroid to live, and it is not easy to get it right.

 

If the lithium orotate is interfering, then I will discontinue it - having my thyroid crash is as bad for my mood than whatever the tiny amount of lithium is doing.

 

Thanks GiaK for your remineralization article!

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Can someone clarify for me this label. Would I be taking 5 mg or 131mg per capsule.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/6192mYZVbyL._SL1500_.jpg

Paxil 20mg started around 2013 dropped to 10 mg at some point dropped to 5mg for 1 week then C/T August 2016.

 

Buspar 10 mg 2x daily started 2013 fluctuating amounts.

 

Tried cylexa 1 week at beginning of August 2016.

Tried wellbutrin 1 week after cylexa stopped both.

 

I have been off all meds for around 4- 5 years.

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May I ask what brand you use Jan?

Paxil 20mg started around 2013 dropped to 10 mg at some point dropped to 5mg for 1 week then C/T August 2016.

 

Buspar 10 mg 2x daily started 2013 fluctuating amounts.

 

Tried cylexa 1 week at beginning of August 2016.

Tried wellbutrin 1 week after cylexa stopped both.

 

I have been off all meds for around 4- 5 years.

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I contacted the company they said in one pill you take in 131 mg of lithium but only absorb 5mg of anyone else was confused by the labels.

Paxil 20mg started around 2013 dropped to 10 mg at some point dropped to 5mg for 1 week then C/T August 2016.

 

Buspar 10 mg 2x daily started 2013 fluctuating amounts.

 

Tried cylexa 1 week at beginning of August 2016.

Tried wellbutrin 1 week after cylexa stopped both.

 

I have been off all meds for around 4- 5 years.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

131 of lithium orotate contains 5 mg of lithium.  It is not "absorption" as the company said, but actual mineral derived from the compound with orotate.  It's a molecular chemistry thing...(not my strong suit!)

 

 

[Note: Due to the large mass of the "orotate" portion of molecule, each 100 mg of lithium orotate contains only 3.83 mg

of elemental lithium, as compared to 18.8 mg in 100 mg of lithium carbonate.]

(Consumer Labs)

 

The brand I've used recently is Swanson.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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Thoughts?

Began tapering on 9/22/16 from 150mg EffexorXR

Freedom on 05/10/17
I'm finding life again after YEARS of meds that made me out of it and gaming addiction that took me from real life.

Remember, slow and steady wins the race! 

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Moderator note:

The information in these videos is highly questionable or "rubbish," in the words of another moderator, JanCarol.

Please read Jan's comment in the post immediately following this one.

 

 

 

 

[deleted obsolete video] = JC

 

I am not an expert ,just went to youtube for these.

The moderators have said before to be careful of anyone selling a brand so be very careful we can make rash decisions in desperation,I've already spent hundreds in trying different things .

Peace

PB

Edited by JanCarol
add moderator note, deleted obsolete vid, JC

Alcohol free since February 2015 

1MG diazepam

4.5MG PROZAC.

 

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

It goes critical in the kidneys.  If you dehydrate ONCE, you can go toxic and need dialysis.

 

If you use 5 mg per day for more than 6 months, you should start taking blood tests to check liver and kidney function.  And I developed diabetes insipidus that did not show up on any blood tests, until I went to an orthomolecular MD who checked different things like ratios.

 

These videos are rubbish.  I was just reading the chapter in "Anatomy of an Epidemic" which indicated that lithium was where the "revolving door syndrome" of relapse started happening in the USA.  

 

"helps" "promotes" "preserves." 

I take a tiny amount to help with cognitive function and sleep - but the improvements are probably not worth the risks I'm taking and I'm likely to discontinue this supplement soon.

 

Please read here:

Lithium Orotate

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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  • 1 year later...

It's been a while since this thread has had a posting, so I thought I'd give it a bump by telling you that I'm going to try Lithium Orotate. I have a bottle on the way, and I will be going with a starting dose of 4.6mg elemental lithium, taken once daily. I'll report back once I have results... even if it's no result.

My previous drug history was confusing, so I deleted it in favour of the following summary, as best I can recall:

2017 - Jun 2019: olanzapine, dose erratic, ranging from 1.25 to 2.5mg per day.

2017 - Jun 2019: klonopin, dose erratic, ranging from 0.0625mg twice a day to 0.25mg twice a day.

2017 - Jun 2019: gabapentin, dose erratic, ranging from 200 to 300mg per day.

Date uncertain: Lamotrigine, small amount for two months, C/T.

Jun 2019: admitted to hospital after months of severe rage (which I am certain was caused by akathesia, but no doctor caught it). Doctors cold-turkeyed all drugs, I submitted to 10 courses of ECT, and was put on 50mg of seroquel at bedtime.

Jul 2019 - Feb 2020: reduced seroquel sporadically from 50mg to 18.75mg.

Apr 19, 2020: Reduced seroquel from 18.75mg to 16.5mg.

 

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  • 1 month later...

I'm wondering if a safer bet might be to take it in mineral drops like Concentrace. It contains only 1.5mg Lithium, and balances it with other trace minerals that may be beneficial to the body too. 

 

What I'm not clear about is how much elemental lithium from ionic  (not chelated) lithium we actually absorb. I had read somewhere that when we get 1 or 2mg Lithium in drinking water or diet, we actually only absorb around 150 micrograms. That makes me wonder if that's the case with mineral drops too. 

 

That I would think is not a dose that can cause organ damage, since it's what we consume from food, and in some areas in water too. 

 

The issue is whether it would do anything for withdrawal or mood at those doses. 

 

What is everyone's take on concentrated mineral drops or trace amounts of ionic Lithium  (on the order of hundreds of micrograms)? Has anyone found benefit from them? Or harm?

 

 

 

  • SSRIs 3-4 times in the last 14 years; would take them for 6-8 months and then taper off under dr supervision with no problems.
  • Med history prior to 2015: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6012-newbeginning-my-withdrawal-story/?p=267313#entry267313
  • 04/2015: Prozac decreased to 15mg over last 3 months; effexor held steady at 8mg; current effexor XR: 20 beads of a 75mg capsule per day (about 8mg)
  • 06/2015: Prozac: 10mg; effexor XR: 19 beads (about 7.5mg); 07/2015: Prozac: 8.5mg; effexor 18 beads; 08/2015: Prozac: 7.5mg; effexor: 17 beads
  • End of August: withdrawal: depressive symptoms, crying spells. Realized I was measuring prozac dose wrong for the last 2 months. Reinstated Prozac 8.5mg; Kept effexor at 17 beads. Stabilized in 5 weeks.
  • 10/2015: Prozac: 8.5mg; effexor: 17 beads11/2015: Prozac: 1.9ml (7.5mg); effexor: 16 beads12/2015: Prozac: 1.6ml; effexor xr: 16 beads. Withdrawal: neuroemotions
  • 01/2016: prozac: 1.6ml; effexor xr: reinstated 17 beads, withdrawal improved; 02/2016: Prozac 1.5ml; Effexor: 17 beads; 03/2016: Prozac 1.3ml(5mg); Effexor: 17 beads (7mg)-withdrawal (flu-like malaise, lightheaded, drowsy) started end of March. April 15: reinstated Prozac 1.5ml. Stabilized. 2 weeks ok. End of April: Withdrawal (neuroemotions). Eventually stabilized in April-May. Apathy improved.
  • 3 month hold until August. August 2016: apathy came back;

  • October 2016: updosed to Prozac 1.6ml. Bad reaction: anxiety, depression. End of October: went down Prozac 1.5ml. Stabilized over several weeks.

  • Dec 9: tried macca for energy: anxiety/depression. Improved over several weeks, but not completely resolved.

  • Dec 31: cut Effexor 5% to 16 beads. After 9 days: withdrawal anxiety, depression; tried updosing to 17 beads Feb 7 but anxiety got worse; went down to 16 beads

    May 2017: Anxiety improved; severe depression continuesSeptember 2017: finally stabilized!!!!!! 09/07/2017-12/31/2017: hold

  • Stable on Effexor 6mg and Prozac 6mg until around 2019-2020. Side effects (fatigue, anhedonia) continued, but had some long lasting windows thanks to therapy. Windows lasting 5-6 months each year followed by relapses.

  • 2019: bad reaction to melatonin 3 mg. Withdrawal after taking it 2 months. When I tried to stop it developed severe insomnia that lasted 6 months even after I reinstated melatonin. Only slept again because I took hydroxyzine 5 mg 3 times a week for few months. Stopped hydroxyzine with no issues. Sleep normalized.

  • 2020-2021: Holding on Prozac 6mg, Effexor 6mg, Tapered melatonin 1 drop every 2-4 weeks down to 1.5mg. Had to hold because further cuts were causing severe drowsiness. 

  • 2021: Insomnia returned due to caffeine use for few months (only started after months of use). I also had a concussion at this time.

  • 2023: took hydroxyzine 5-100mg for one month (kept increasing dose every 3 days because I developed tolerance). Tapered for 1 week. After 1 month: withdrawal neuroemotions. Reinstated 5mg 2 months after stopping. Gradually increased to 25mg, stabilized, but withdrawal came back after 10 days. Kept increasing dose and withdrawal returning. Currently at 40mg. Not sure how to stabilize. 

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Just a quick update on my previous post about trying lithium Orotate: I have some on hand but have not brought myself to try it yet. Maybe soon.

 

Edited by IanM
Spelling

My previous drug history was confusing, so I deleted it in favour of the following summary, as best I can recall:

2017 - Jun 2019: olanzapine, dose erratic, ranging from 1.25 to 2.5mg per day.

2017 - Jun 2019: klonopin, dose erratic, ranging from 0.0625mg twice a day to 0.25mg twice a day.

2017 - Jun 2019: gabapentin, dose erratic, ranging from 200 to 300mg per day.

Date uncertain: Lamotrigine, small amount for two months, C/T.

Jun 2019: admitted to hospital after months of severe rage (which I am certain was caused by akathesia, but no doctor caught it). Doctors cold-turkeyed all drugs, I submitted to 10 courses of ECT, and was put on 50mg of seroquel at bedtime.

Jul 2019 - Feb 2020: reduced seroquel sporadically from 50mg to 18.75mg.

Apr 19, 2020: Reduced seroquel from 18.75mg to 16.5mg.

 

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I've gone back and forth and back again with lithium orotate. After the second brain injury that landed me in ICU for a week in December I used pretty large doses for a while. My body shot into hyperthyroid too and among many other natural means it finally came down. The lithium was part of that. It was actually one of only too processed/synthetic supplements of all I did to get me out of that heinous relapse of sorts. The other was l-carnitine which removes excess thyroid and replaces depleted l-carnitine which happens in hyper thyroid. I took the lithium both for hyper thyroid management but more importantly to help the brain damage and injury (which there are some studies supporting it's use). For a very brief period I took 80 mg....REALLY BRIEF...then I took 20 mg for about a month and then down to 5 mg

 

you cannot take that upper limit of  lithium (80 mg)  without taking blood work...it's dangerous and essentially a pharmaceutical dose. (albeit with a safer substance)

everything else I did was with food and herbs and right now I have the calmest nervous system of the entire 8 years since coming off drugs. When I came out of the hospital in January I was in full insane relapse. I still have a lot of very serious issues from this secondary injury in Dec, but simultaneously my nervous system, as I said is more down-regulated than it's ever been. THAT IS NOT to say it's healed...it's not. It's just better than it's ever been since the initial drug injury. I'm still largely homebound at the moment so I've still got a long way to go from the last re-injury. 

I now take 5 mg of lithium which is the upper limit of naturally occurring lithium in some water supplies. My hyperthyroid has come down (I'm still needing to get TSH online but I no longerhave high t3 or t4. 

I hope to eventually get down to 1 mg of lithium because I am now convinced that it's a beneficial and at least sometimes essential mineral. It is also a potentially toxic substance and must be used with great respect. 

Everything Matters: Beyond Meds 

https://beyondmeds.com/

withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.
 

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as awful as this period has been I've also managed to move through heinous relapse of pretty much every one of the far worst symptoms I had when coming off drugs and get to somewhere that seems to be an improved state (in many, but not all ways) ... I've done that in 7 months as opposed to 10 years. I don't feel great and often feel hopeless because of how sick I still am, but nonetheless, I rocketed through **** that took years last time because, lo and behold, I really did learn a whole lot. (just thought I'd add that note)  .. love that I can still come here and read shares and share my own stuff too. thank you. 

Everything Matters: Beyond Meds 

https://beyondmeds.com/

withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.
 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Glad you are feeling better Gia, it was saddening to see you so poorly after all those years recovering. Thank you for coming back to keep us updated. :wub:

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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On 7/21/2018 at 12:10 PM, IanM said:

Just a quick update on my previous post about trying lithium Orotate: I have some on hand but have not brought myself to try it yet. Maybe soon.

 

 

I decided to start the Lithium Orotate on the night I posted the above. I perhaps foolishly decided to go with  two tablets, twice a day, giving me a total dose of about 20mg elemental lithium (probably should have started with one pill to see if I have a bad reaction, but desperation is a powerful antidote for common sense). 

 

So here's the thing: for the past year and a half I have only been getting about four hours of sleep a night, with semi-frequent wakings at 1pm with my heart beating slow but VERY hard, body covered in sweat, and if I was lucky enough to get back to sleep I would wake at 3-4am with an extreme cortisol/adrenaline surge. Life-threatening way to live, as I'm sure others can attest.

 

So now... on my first night after taking lithium, I slept 7 solid hours, and no cortisol/adrenal surge upon waking. On the second night, I slept 8 hours, again no surge. Remarkable, as far as I'm concerned. I still felt like hell warmed over when I woke, but far better than I'm used to.

 

Needless to say, I am very hopeful that this admittedly short trend will continue, and I can start to catch up some desperately needed sleep. 

 

I'll continue with updates as best I can.

 

I hope everyone is doing well.

My previous drug history was confusing, so I deleted it in favour of the following summary, as best I can recall:

2017 - Jun 2019: olanzapine, dose erratic, ranging from 1.25 to 2.5mg per day.

2017 - Jun 2019: klonopin, dose erratic, ranging from 0.0625mg twice a day to 0.25mg twice a day.

2017 - Jun 2019: gabapentin, dose erratic, ranging from 200 to 300mg per day.

Date uncertain: Lamotrigine, small amount for two months, C/T.

Jun 2019: admitted to hospital after months of severe rage (which I am certain was caused by akathesia, but no doctor caught it). Doctors cold-turkeyed all drugs, I submitted to 10 courses of ECT, and was put on 50mg of seroquel at bedtime.

Jul 2019 - Feb 2020: reduced seroquel sporadically from 50mg to 18.75mg.

Apr 19, 2020: Reduced seroquel from 18.75mg to 16.5mg.

 

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5 hours ago, IanM said:

 

I decided to start the Lithium Orotate on the night I posted the above. I perhaps foolishly decided to go with  two tablets, twice a day, giving me a total dose of about 20mg elemental lithium (probably should have started with one pill to see if I have a bad reaction, but desperation is a powerful antidote for common sense). 

 

So here's the thing: for the past year and a half I have only been getting about four hours of sleep a night, with semi-frequent wakings at 1pm with my heart beating slow but VERY hard, body covered in sweat, and if I was lucky enough to get back to sleep I would wake at 3-4am with an extreme cortisol/adrenaline surge. Life-threatening way to live, as I'm sure others can attest.

 

So now... on my first night after taking lithium, I slept 7 solid hours, and no cortisol/adrenal surge upon waking. On the second night, I slept 8 hours, again no surge. Remarkable, as far as I'm concerned. I still felt like hell warmed over when I woke, but far better than I'm used to.

 

Needless to say, I am very hopeful that this admittedly short trend will continue, and I can start to catch up some desperately needed sleep. 

 

I'll continue with updates as best I can.

 

I hope everyone is doing well.

 

apparently lithium builds up in the system, i have done a bit of googling and seen that quite a few people report feeling better for a few days and then start feeling worse, I imagine this is because it builds up in the system and becomes too much, it might be better if you keep at a low dose for a few weeks to start with to avoid any negative reactions,

 

keep updating how you are doing with the lithium

2001 - 2005 prozac,  2001 - 2017 various benzos, mainly diazapem and zanex,  2002 - 2017 olanzapine or seroquel,  2002 -2017 propanolol, 2005 - 2009 venlafaxine 75mg , forced to go cold turkey off venlafaxine as moved Thailand, doctor cut me off and couldn't get it there, severely ill for over 2 years, countered withdrawals with more zanex and seroquel

2014 returned to UK, mainly to get treatment getting off meds

doctor advised to taper seroquel over a few weeks, severely ill and bed bed-bound so reinstated it, 2015 tapered seroquel myself slower over a few months, was off it 2 months and was too ill so went on olanzapine, became zombie and too tired to get out of bed, went back on seroquel, very depressed so went back on venlafaxine, didnt work  so doctor swapped to zoloft became very agitated so back on venlafaxine

June 2016 - felt strong enough to begin tapering again, started what I thought was a slow taper of all meds,  2016 July Not had any alcoholic drink since this date, 

2016 October completely off diazepem, 2017 Feb completely off seroquel, 2017 March completely off proponanlol, 2017 April (day before birthday) completely off venlafaxine, OFF ALL MEDS 11/4/2017, was fine for nearly 3 months and then delayed withdrawal hit,

supplements taking: turmeric capsules, NiaCel (nicotinamide riboside), Vit B12 sublingual, Vit B3, Vit B6, Vit B1, apple cider vinegar, manuka umf 10 honey, camu camu powder,  melatonin when needed, epsom salt baths, juices, smoothies, 

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15175-dj2010-off-all-meds-for-3-months-and-been-fine-now-bad-insomnia/

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2 hours ago, dj2010 said:

 

apparently lithium builds up in the system, i have done a bit of googling and seen that quite a few people report feeling better for a few days and then start feeling worse, I imagine this is because it builds up in the system and becomes too much, it might be better if you keep at a low dose for a few weeks to start with to avoid any negative reactions,

 

keep updating how you are doing with the lithium

 

Thanks dj. I have done a significant amount of googling over the past few weeks and have not read a single thing about lithium building up and pooping out. Would it be too much to ask for a link or two to such information? Perhaps my google-fu skills are lacking. Thanks.

My previous drug history was confusing, so I deleted it in favour of the following summary, as best I can recall:

2017 - Jun 2019: olanzapine, dose erratic, ranging from 1.25 to 2.5mg per day.

2017 - Jun 2019: klonopin, dose erratic, ranging from 0.0625mg twice a day to 0.25mg twice a day.

2017 - Jun 2019: gabapentin, dose erratic, ranging from 200 to 300mg per day.

Date uncertain: Lamotrigine, small amount for two months, C/T.

Jun 2019: admitted to hospital after months of severe rage (which I am certain was caused by akathesia, but no doctor caught it). Doctors cold-turkeyed all drugs, I submitted to 10 courses of ECT, and was put on 50mg of seroquel at bedtime.

Jul 2019 - Feb 2020: reduced seroquel sporadically from 50mg to 18.75mg.

Apr 19, 2020: Reduced seroquel from 18.75mg to 16.5mg.

 

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2 hours ago, IanM said:

 

Thanks dj. I have done a significant amount of googling over the past few weeks and have not read a single thing about lithium building up and pooping out. Would it be too much to ask for a link or two to such information? Perhaps my google-fu skills are lacking. Thanks.

 

hi IanM, it mentions it in below links and there are quite a few more reddit threads on it also that read earlier but not got the links handy, I am not sure how accurate the info in these links are or if it does build up in the system or not but its something to consider and still probably best starting slowly, anyway let us know how you get on as im intrigued and might try a small dose myself:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/747oxk/the_infamous_lithium_orotate/

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/3lxd0g/lithium_orotate_safety/

 

2001 - 2005 prozac,  2001 - 2017 various benzos, mainly diazapem and zanex,  2002 - 2017 olanzapine or seroquel,  2002 -2017 propanolol, 2005 - 2009 venlafaxine 75mg , forced to go cold turkey off venlafaxine as moved Thailand, doctor cut me off and couldn't get it there, severely ill for over 2 years, countered withdrawals with more zanex and seroquel

2014 returned to UK, mainly to get treatment getting off meds

doctor advised to taper seroquel over a few weeks, severely ill and bed bed-bound so reinstated it, 2015 tapered seroquel myself slower over a few months, was off it 2 months and was too ill so went on olanzapine, became zombie and too tired to get out of bed, went back on seroquel, very depressed so went back on venlafaxine, didnt work  so doctor swapped to zoloft became very agitated so back on venlafaxine

June 2016 - felt strong enough to begin tapering again, started what I thought was a slow taper of all meds,  2016 July Not had any alcoholic drink since this date, 

2016 October completely off diazepem, 2017 Feb completely off seroquel, 2017 March completely off proponanlol, 2017 April (day before birthday) completely off venlafaxine, OFF ALL MEDS 11/4/2017, was fine for nearly 3 months and then delayed withdrawal hit,

supplements taking: turmeric capsules, NiaCel (nicotinamide riboside), Vit B12 sublingual, Vit B3, Vit B6, Vit B1, apple cider vinegar, manuka umf 10 honey, camu camu powder,  melatonin when needed, epsom salt baths, juices, smoothies, 

Intro: http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15175-dj2010-off-all-meds-for-3-months-and-been-fine-now-bad-insomnia/

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4 hours ago, dj2010 said:

 

hi IanM, it mentions it in below links and there are quite a few more reddit threads on it also that read earlier but not got the links handy, I am not sure how accurate the info in these links are or if it does build up in the system or not but its something to consider and still probably best starting slowly, anyway let us know how you get on as im intrigued and might try a small dose myself:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/747oxk/the_infamous_lithium_orotate/

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/3lxd0g/lithium_orotate_safety/

 

 

Thanks, dj. I had already read those linkscavfewxweeks ago, and after a re-read, see nothing of concern. I feel comfortable taking 20mg for a month or so, after which time I'll re-assess my intake. 

My previous drug history was confusing, so I deleted it in favour of the following summary, as best I can recall:

2017 - Jun 2019: olanzapine, dose erratic, ranging from 1.25 to 2.5mg per day.

2017 - Jun 2019: klonopin, dose erratic, ranging from 0.0625mg twice a day to 0.25mg twice a day.

2017 - Jun 2019: gabapentin, dose erratic, ranging from 200 to 300mg per day.

Date uncertain: Lamotrigine, small amount for two months, C/T.

Jun 2019: admitted to hospital after months of severe rage (which I am certain was caused by akathesia, but no doctor caught it). Doctors cold-turkeyed all drugs, I submitted to 10 courses of ECT, and was put on 50mg of seroquel at bedtime.

Jul 2019 - Feb 2020: reduced seroquel sporadically from 50mg to 18.75mg.

Apr 19, 2020: Reduced seroquel from 18.75mg to 16.5mg.

 

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On 7/18/2018 at 9:02 PM, Newbeginning said:

I'm wondering if a safer bet might be to take it in mineral drops like Concentrace. It contains only 1.5mg Lithium, and balances it with other trace minerals that may be beneficial to the body too. 

 

What I'm not clear about is how much elemental lithium from ionic  (not chelated) lithium we actually absorb. I had read somewhere that when we get 1 or 2mg Lithium in drinking water or diet, we actually only absorb around 150 micrograms. That makes me wonder if that's the case with mineral drops too. 

 

That I would think is not a dose that can cause organ damage, since it's what we consume from food, and in some areas in water too. 

 

The issue is whether it would do anything for withdrawal or mood at those doses. 

 

What is everyone's take on concentrated mineral drops or trace amounts of ionic Lithium  (on the order of hundreds of micrograms)? Has anyone found benefit from them? Or harm?

 

 

 

Hi Newbeginning,

I've been using the Concentrace Trace Minerals for awhile now.......1-2 years.  The 1.5 mg Lithium is a Lithium Chloride and equivalent to Lithium in a  0.163: 1.0 ratio.  Or is 16.3% of Lithium by comparison.  A really minimal dose of Lithium.

I had been assuming it was Lithium orotate all along..........

 

I don't know how this goes with absorption though.  I googled and found quite a bit though.  Seems weird as the Li chloride comes up as being used in automotive batteries!!!!!  I'm hoping it is minimally absorbed........just in case.  I have had lab work since being on this as well..........kidneys and liver are fine.

 

I think it has benefited me........in a calming way.  And I've done their recommended dosage. 

 

I also called the company.......the number is listed on the bottle.  They've been manufacturing it for some 40 years and from the Great Salt Lake(or more anciently known as the Great Bonneville Seas), which I found fascinating.  They gave me an e-mail contact as well for further questions. 

 

I started with the full recommended 40gtts or 1/2 tsp per day.  I think though, as it comes in liquid preparation(and it's bitter so needs dilution in juice as well)..........it would be safest to try at perhaps just 10 gtts to start or less.   Just to be on the safe side..........and then if tolerated, you could slowly increase.

 

I'm just at that point myself of starting to revise some of the supplements I arrived here on.  And I'd sure like to do more like GiaK does....... and get to using more food stuffs to meet my bodies needs than manufactured supplements.  A very alternative practitioner got me started on the Trace Minerals(during W/D) and like I said........I think they have helped me.  And they are pretty naturally processed.

 

And mind you this isn't something that we would recommend across the board at survivingantidepressants.   Good to discuss this stuff though and always do your own research as much as possible.

The only 2 supplements we stand behind are the Omega 3's and Magnesium.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

just a p.s. of hugs to GiaK.  Me too........so glad you are improving!!!

Edited by manymoretodays
additional

Late 2023- gone to emeritus status, inactive, don't @ me, I can check who I've posted on, and I'm not really here like I used to be......thanks.

Started with psycho meds/psychiatric care circa 1988.  In retrospect, and on contemplation, situational overwhelm.

Rounding up to 30 years of medications(30 medication trials, poly-pharmacy maximum was 3 at one time).

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!  Tapered @ 10% every 4 weeks, sometimes 2 weeks to

2016 Dec 16 medication free!!

Longer signature post here, with current supplements.

Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  And.....I quit smoking 11/2021. Lapsed.  Redo of quit smoking 9/28/2022.  Can you say Hallelujah?(took me long enough)💜

None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider.  My success story:  Blue skies ahead, clear sailing

 

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Hello all. I'm sad to report that I am back to 4 hours of sleep and the miserable waking cortisol rush. I had high hopes that the LO would continue to provide better sleep, but alas, it's not to be. I am, however, going to continue taking 5 pills a day (approximately 25mg elemental lithium).

 

Healing to all.

My previous drug history was confusing, so I deleted it in favour of the following summary, as best I can recall:

2017 - Jun 2019: olanzapine, dose erratic, ranging from 1.25 to 2.5mg per day.

2017 - Jun 2019: klonopin, dose erratic, ranging from 0.0625mg twice a day to 0.25mg twice a day.

2017 - Jun 2019: gabapentin, dose erratic, ranging from 200 to 300mg per day.

Date uncertain: Lamotrigine, small amount for two months, C/T.

Jun 2019: admitted to hospital after months of severe rage (which I am certain was caused by akathesia, but no doctor caught it). Doctors cold-turkeyed all drugs, I submitted to 10 courses of ECT, and was put on 50mg of seroquel at bedtime.

Jul 2019 - Feb 2020: reduced seroquel sporadically from 50mg to 18.75mg.

Apr 19, 2020: Reduced seroquel from 18.75mg to 16.5mg.

 

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  • 3 years later...

Has anyone else used this and had a good experience in which it helped you stabilize even a little bit? 

ProzacNovember 2019: 10MG start

January 2021: up to 60MG 

march 2021: Valium everyday 2MG twice a day for a month or after that take as needed 

April 2021-May: taper to 0MG

June 2021: Zoloft 7 days and ween off. 
August 2021: escitalopram 5MG-10MG

August 2021: Propanol 10MG-20MG as needed 

September 2021: weened off escitalopram over a week.

October 30th: Citalopram 20MG 

November 10th: stopped - 10MG 2 days. 
November 14th: Prozac 20MG

November 18th: stop C/T 

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  • 6 months later...

I am considering it to help with my diazepam taper to protect me from glutamate storm/excitotoxicity. It's been hard to taper even using the 5% rule.

 

But I am still on fluvoxamine (100mg) and pregabalin (200mg). Is this still safe to use while polydrugged?

 

I am afraid it could mess with serotonin and make my tinnitus worse as my tinnitus started with antidepressants.

 

Any experiences on using it while still on ADs? Any experience on people with AD induced tinnitus?

Prozac: 2018/05 - 20mg, 2018/07 - 40mg

Zoloft: 2018/08 - 50mg, 2018/12 - 100mg, 2020/11 - 150mg, 2021/03/16 - 125mg

Xanax/Valium: Aug/18 - 0.5mg, Sep18 - 1.5mg (2.5mg in extreme cases), Oct/18- 1.25mg, Nov/18 - 1mg,Dec/18 - 0.75mg, Xanax + 5mg Valium, Apr/19 - .5mg X + 5mg V, Jul/19 - .25mg X + 5mg V, Dec/19 - .25mg X + 2.5mg V, Jan/20 - .125mg X + 2.5mgV, Apr/20 - 2.5mg V, May/20 - 1.25mg V, May/20 (end of the month) - 1.0mg V, Jun/20 - 0.75mg V, 03/08/2020 - 0.70, 24/08/2020 - 0.60, 22/09/2020 - 0.50, 06/10/2020 - 0.40, 03/11/2020 - 0.30

30/11/2020 - 1.25mg of V (Updose due to being unable to work)

Feb/21 - 2.5mg of V

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26 minutes ago, fullofdetermination said:

I am considering it to help with my diazepam taper to protect me from glutamate storm/excitotoxicity. It's been hard to taper even using the 5% rule.

 

But I am still on fluvoxamine (100mg) and pregabalin (200mg). Is this still safe to use while polydrugged?

 

I am afraid it could mess with serotonin and make my tinnitus worse as my tinnitus started with antidepressants.

 

Any experiences on using it while still on ADs? Any experience on people with AD induced tinnitus?

 

Please read this post and note that lithium is toxic to the kidneys and thyroid

 

 

 

Edited by ChessieCat

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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  • Moderator Emeritus
27 minutes ago, fullofdetermination said:

I am considering it to help with my diazepam taper to protect me from glutamate storm/excitotoxicity. It's been hard to taper even using the 5% rule.

 

But I am still on fluvoxamine (100mg) and pregabalin (200mg). Is this still safe to use while polydrugged?

 

I am afraid it could mess with serotonin and make my tinnitus worse as my tinnitus started with antidepressants.

 

Any experiences on using it while still on ADs? Any experience on people with AD induced tinnitus?

 

From what will get you warned or banned:

 

  

On 6/16/2011 at 4:45 AM, Altostrata said:

Drug shopping or recommending drugs
This is a site for going off drugs. It is not a site for finding out what drug to take next, comparing drug cocktails, or recommending what drug to add.

 

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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3 hours ago, fullofdetermination said:

I am considering it to help with my diazepam taper to protect me from glutamate storm/excitotoxicity. It's been hard to taper even using the 5% rule.

 

Never seen any evidence this is a thing. I presume you read it on Facebook or reddit or similar?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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13 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

Never seen any evidence this is a thing. I presume you read it on Facebook or reddit or similar?

On benzobuddies and then some googling.

 

There is this informal article but with papers referenced: https://nourishedblessings.com/lowering-glutamate-lithium-orotate/

 

Some more formal:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11841566/

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-021-01329-3

 

It's important to emphasize that I am only considering the orotate form (supplement), not the drug.

 

I think there are other sources or better papers but I feel slammed after my working hours now and the burning brain feeling is starting again, sorry if I sound lazy, it's been pretty tough.

Prozac: 2018/05 - 20mg, 2018/07 - 40mg

Zoloft: 2018/08 - 50mg, 2018/12 - 100mg, 2020/11 - 150mg, 2021/03/16 - 125mg

Xanax/Valium: Aug/18 - 0.5mg, Sep18 - 1.5mg (2.5mg in extreme cases), Oct/18- 1.25mg, Nov/18 - 1mg,Dec/18 - 0.75mg, Xanax + 5mg Valium, Apr/19 - .5mg X + 5mg V, Jul/19 - .25mg X + 5mg V, Dec/19 - .25mg X + 2.5mg V, Jan/20 - .125mg X + 2.5mgV, Apr/20 - 2.5mg V, May/20 - 1.25mg V, May/20 (end of the month) - 1.0mg V, Jun/20 - 0.75mg V, 03/08/2020 - 0.70, 24/08/2020 - 0.60, 22/09/2020 - 0.50, 06/10/2020 - 0.40, 03/11/2020 - 0.30

30/11/2020 - 1.25mg of V (Updose due to being unable to work)

Feb/21 - 2.5mg of V

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  • Administrator

Right. Well, we don't endorse taking lithium orotate. I can't see any reason it would help benzo tapering or any other.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 5 months later...

I was wondering if anyone here has made any change from Lithium carbonate to lithium ornate— I am well aware that the “purpose” of each is quite different. The first one is pharmaceutical and the second is to support neurotransmitters…when sold milligrams are quite different too. I need some guidance but I refuse to go into a psychiatrist to consult this.

Thanks 

Jul

Edited by Altostrata
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Hello, @julval Are you looking to taper prescribed lithium? Please read Tips for tapering off lithium
 

Over-the-counter lithium orotate dosage is deliberately kept small to avoid the health risks of the much higher dosages in prescribed lithium, which should be monitored with periodic kidney function tests.

 

As peer counselors, we would not suggest attempting to substitute over-the-counter lithium orotate for prescribed lithium, and we would not recommend trying to take so much lithium orotate that it would be an equivalent dosage to the prescribed type.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • Mentor

@manymoretodays

I was wondering if you are still taking trace minerals?  What brand did you  use?  Where you taking them as you were withdrawing from big pharma or where you drug free first?  

Thanks for your help

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/24894-greatful-is-this-withdrawal-or-to-many-med-changes-at-once/

1995? Prozac,  tried several Paxil, Serzone, St John's Wart back to Prozac and Trazodone ct:d Traz

 Lexapro. Tried to stop Crash in 2015  Kindled   Hospitalized, Vybrid, Seroquel, Effexor, Abilify  Pristiq, Wellbutrin-- 2016  ended back on   Prozac and Lamictal 200mg

5/2020  thru 12/2020 taper from 20mg  Prozac  down to 3mg.  Crashed  12/13/2020 Zoloft 50mg 1/29ct  1/29/2021 Seroquel 50mg ct  2/12/2021 Wellbutrin 75mg.  Became hypo manic 2/1  6ct Trazodone 50mg 4/25  25mg 2/5/ 2021 Lamictal 150mg.  2/24  100mg   4/9  75mg   4/21 37.5 

2/16/2021 Seroquel 50xr  3/3 100mg  3/17  150mg  side effects ct   4/3 2021 Lexapro 5mg  4/14  7.5mg  4/30 10mg  5/10  7.5mg 

2021/ 5/16  5mg Lexapro   37.5 Lamictal   25mg trazadone,   xanax  .0625mg  3x a day   

Lexapro  Taper> Sept/01/2021  4.90mg>  Sept/25  4.75mg>   Oct/19 4.69mg > Nov/14 4.2mg    Jan/30/2022-- Split dosing 2x a day All liquid  4.2mg  (2.20mg at 8am & 2mg at 4pm) 2/17 4mg>  2/24  3.8mg  slow taper to  Aug/12/2022 2.04mg  2023> 2mg,  1.90mg, 1.80mg, 1.70mg, 1.5mg, 1.4mg, 1.3mg 1.2mg, 1.1mg, 1mg, 0.9mg, 0.8mg, 0.7mg 0.65mg, 0.6mg, 0.55mg, 0.5mg, 0.45mg, 0.4mg, 0.35mg, 0.3mg, 0.25,mg, back to once a day dosing 0 .1mg, 0.07mg

Lamictal  taper  4/17/ 2022 25mg, 9/9/ 22 -20mg, 9/25/22- 15mg , 10/20/22-   0

 Trazodone..2023.>down to 14mg, 7mg, 6mg  July 2023   0

Xanax  0.0625 3 x a day,  2023>  0.042 3x a day

Supplements  Magnesium glycinate, Omega 3, D3, vitamin c , zinc, NAC 

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@Greatful

im not done with the meds. 
you mean the supplements? Solgar brand.

I’m currently taking 450 mg carbonate and will start changing 35 mg for 5 mg of ornate.

I hope this answers your question

Jul

 

 

Medicines taken 

Started w Clonazepam 

2020-September

Jan 2021 lithium carbonate (Theralite) 1200 mg daily until nov 2022 that I started the tampering process

Decreasing by a quarter of a pill. Currently on 600 mg for one more month bc there a lot of feelings

I added natural options to this as follows

Vitamin D, curcumin, Ashawanda, lavander oil (lasea) for anxiety, zinc, magnesium and omega 3. Milk thistle seeds and blue Espiruline 

Playing tennis 4 days a week. Spending time in nature and walking - hour 2/3 days a week.

No sugar-no alcohol policy.

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