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geminigirl

Geminigirl: Hope for Healing

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geminigirl

Hi There,

 

 

To make a long story short,

 

I tried to taper off my celexa. I was tapering 10% down of my original 20 mg dose, and tapered 10% every two weeks for two and a half months. Also the schedule my doctor put me on for tapering was quite erratic. So 10 mg a few days and then back to 20 mg other days. My tapering was never an exact amount each time I tapered down. Anyways, I felt good tapering down for two months and a half but then just 4 days ago the withdrawal hit me pretty good. Obviously the tapering was too fast.

 

So almost as soon as my withdrawal started I took the original 20 mg dose, and I felt a bit better. The second day I took another 20 mg and felt even better.

 

Now my question is, do I just keep going at 20 mg? or should I go to 15 mg (halfway point between 10 and 20 mg) because my system has been sensitized by the withdrawal? I have already been taking my original 20 mg the past two days and feel better, so I should I just stick with that? I want to find a dose I am comfortable with and just stick with it because I think I am confusing my brain a lot.

 

I was supposed to take a pill last night but because I wasn't sure which dose, I haven't taken any citalopram yet, so hence the urgency of this message.

 

Please let me know your opinions.

 

Thank you

 

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geminigirl

I forgot to mention. I have been on 20 mg of citalopram for the past 5/6 years.

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geminigirl

Also I forgot to mention that even though I took the 20 mg two days in a row I still feel some withdrawal (brain foggy, headache).

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mammaP

Hi Gemini girl, I have moved your post to introductions, this is your thread

To update as you wish.

Did you taper down to 10mg or lower when you updosed? It is hard to say what

dose will be best when there have been so many changes.

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primrose

Hi Geminigirl

 

I am no expert, I've just weaned down on my antidepressant from 300mg to 150mg, in stages, as the higher dose was making me a zombie, and I am doing well on the lower dose. My medication is trazodone.

I don't know anything about celexa or citalopram, and it sounds like you are having a rough time.

 

If I have got this right, you have gone back up to 20mg celexa, and feel better but not fully better.

If I were you, I would hang around at 20mg for longer until you feel stabilised.

A couple of years ago, I once went cold turkey from 300mg  trazodone for five days, but felt horrible, so I went back upto 300mg, it took about two weeks to feel fully better.

 

When you stabilise and start tapering again, I would use smaller cuts.

Dunno if celexa is water soluble, but even if it isnt, you can shake it up and pull tiny cuts out with a syringe.

Some users on here do that, I did it with diazepam and milk, as it made diaz dissolve enough to pull even doses with a syringe. Some have success with it, I had success getting off diazepam by making a liquid and got to 0mg without any withdrawals.

 

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Abilifyneedhelp88

Hi I would as Gemini suggested to stay at 20mg for now because if you continue to change doses erratically it does not give a steady dose......Once at 20mg for a period of time, you can then properly taper using a variety of methods...water titration, olive oil titration or even almond oil....diazepam in milk is one common method for that particular drug but again this is your choice in how you would like to handle this...No the doctors are uneducated in this area and often times make decision with quick changes which prolong the w/d...claiming that you will be fine when you are not....Not sure why you are on 2 AD's at the same time...but...I would taper slowly to your comfort level doing it as slowly as your body will permit....It is often recommended 10% every 2-3 weeks holding at your dose but some people can only do 5% or less...I used an olive oil taper for Remeron when I was on it...and a liquid equivalent on my AP and dry cutting on my AC....So I would "travel" carefully....

 

Go at your own rate....but I believe in my opinion you should stay at 20mg until you gain some stability, then retry when able....

 

Hope this helps....

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mammaP

Going back to 20mg after a dose of 10mg or lower could be too much. It is quite important to

Know the last dose and how long you were at that dose. You may have become sensitive to it

and have side effects. A very small dose may be all that is needed but it all depends on

The doses and timing. I know all these questions are tiresome but we really need to know

those details that seem insignificant. Hopefully we will be able to help get you on the

Right track for you.

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Altostrata

Welcome, geminigirl.
 
Please read About reinstating and stabilizing to stop withdrawal symptoms
 
and our citalopram tapering topic http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2023-tips-for-tapering-off-celexa-citalopram/
 
It will take about 4 days for the 20mg to fully register in your system. If it feels too strong, 15mg or 10mg might be more tolerable. Then stay there for a while, as mammaP suggested, and taper more systematically.

 

Changing doses is very stressful for the nervous system, so do everything carefully.

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geminigirl

Hey guys thank you so much for your replies, they help so much. Especially when I cant trust the damn doctors. So one more question....

 

I just got some 15 mg celexa liquid and I am thinking of just having this as my regular dose. I already took three 20 mg pills these past 3 days (as soon as my withdrawal started after that initial fast taper). I am still having headaches and brain fog after the 20 mg updose. So I am still confused should I just stay on 20 mg or just go to 15 mg and just start everything new from there?

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geminigirl

also altostrata, how will I know if the 20 mg updose is too strong? ive been taking it past 3 days.

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geminigirl

After last night (my 3rd day being on 20 mg) I felt more like myself and could actually think again. What a relief.

 

I will just stay at 20 mg considering I am feeling better already and don't have a bad reaction to 20 mg. Seems to be working as time goes on. It's weird how in the evenings I feel better usually/feel the most progress.

 

I was so worried I would have withdrawal forever. I guess most people are worried about that.

 

Has anyone tapered too fast and then gone back to the original dose and things were normal? I know people say that if you back too high of a dose your body might not like it cuz it's sensitized due to withdrawal effect?

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primrose

After last night (my 3rd day being on 20 mg) I felt more like myself and could actually think again. What a relief.

 

I will just stay at 20 mg considering I am feeling better already and don't have a bad reaction to 20 mg. Seems to be working as time goes on. It's weird how in the evenings I feel better usually/feel the most progress.

 

I was so worried I would have withdrawal forever. I guess most people are worried about that.

 

Has anyone tapered too fast and then gone back to the original dose and things were normal? I know people say that if you back too high of a dose your body might not like it cuz it's sensitized due to withdrawal effect?

Hi

 

It's great that you have found a dose where you feel better from.

 

I also feel better in the evenings.

I don't exactly know why, but I read that cortisol is highest in the mornings.

With me, it's something about daylight that tenses me up.

I think it's common in withdrawal to feel that it's never going to end.

 

I once cold turkeyed off trazodone, felt awful, went back on and felt better within two weeks. I have weaned down to 150mg over a period of time. Not really a planned taper, just cutting a bit off here and there. I am not planning on coming off it, but the 300mg dose I was on was making me feel more dead inside and less able to guage when my mental health was getting worse. At the 150mg, I still have the antidepressant, and I am a little more able to guage when my mental health is getting worse.

Some time in the future I will taper off. Dunno at this stage, whether I will just knock off a bit here and there, or a planned taper.

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bubble

It depends primarily on how long you were off the drug. The longer you were off, the less you should reinstate. But if you were off for only a few days the full dose might be OK.

 

It would be helpful to put your drug history in your signature. In that way you can also journal your progress.  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

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Altostrata

You will surely know if it's too strong. Let us know how you're doing.

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geminigirl

I am at 20 mg, 4th day in a row. Have had windows and waves, but each day since taking 20 mg seem to be getting better. Altostrata, you said that if 20 mg is too high of a dose, I would know. Still confused as to how I would know? Would I have certain symtoms? Like anxiety, mania or something? Only symptoms I have left from previous withdrawal is headache and derealisation a bit.

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primrose

I am at 20 mg, 4th day in a row. Have had windows and waves, but each day since taking 20 mg seem to be getting better. Altostrata, you said that if 20 mg is too high of a dose, I would know. Still confused as to how I would know? Would I have certain symtoms? Like anxiety, mania or something? Only symptoms I have left from previous withdrawal is headache and derealisation a bit.

Hi I just popped in to say glad you are feeling better.

It's amazing how some of these antidepressants can affect some of us.

No one tells us this when they prescribe it to us.

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geminigirl

Hey Guys, thank you so much for your support. This is totally great the info I was getting on this site and it saved me from going into a spiral of nonsense my doctor told me.

 

I am feeling like 95% better now. What a scary experience. Next time I will taper super slow cuz I never want to experience the depersonalization and brain fog I did. I think that was the scariest part, not feeling like me, and not being able to use my mind which I cherish quite a lot.

 

Anyways, still don't understand how doctors are stupid enough to hand out this stuff so easily and also telling people withdrawal is short-lived. They probably just don't understand the consequences.

 

Ttyl

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geminigirl

Errr. Still feeling like I can't think or imagine stuff as before. Hope my brain will be back to 100% soon.

 

Anyone know how much longer it will take?

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Altostrata

It may take a while, maybe even months. Be patient. Your nervous system had a big shock.

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geminigirl

UGH. So annoying. I still feel the withdrawal despite having gone back to original dose for the past 2 weeks. I can't believe withdrawal can last this long despite going back to original dose. Hoping that in a month or two i'll go back to normal. I feel scared though I will be stuck like this forever :S

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primrose

UGH. So annoying. I still feel the withdrawal despite having gone back to original dose for the past 2 weeks. I can't believe withdrawal can last this long despite going back to original dose. Hoping that in a month or two i'll go back to normal. I feel scared though I will be stuck like this forever :S

Hi Geminigirl

 

When I cold turkeyed from trazodone some time ago, it took me about two weeks to feel fully normal. It may be that you need to allow yourself some more time. Hope you feel better soon.

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geminigirl

Thank you primrose,

 

Yes, some people have been saying it may take a few more weeks.

 

I just feel scared because a) I am already prone to anxiety and don't like small changes, especially relating to my consciousness/brain. I think I am just scared because I don't know EXACTLY when the withdrawal will go away. I honestly feel like I have been high for the past two weeks, but not a good high, it's like  a weird/annoying high.

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geminigirl

P.S. Primrose, were you scared when you still felt the withdrawal during that time? Like you thought you would be in withdrawal forever? That is what I am feeling :S

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bubble

There are no quick fixes after the reinstatement. It is great that you were able to experience such a big decrease in your symptoms after all those changes. If you had your leg broken, would you expect it to be at its 100 % after a few weeks? 

 

How long were you taking Celexa before you cut it so abruptly? Can you please put your drug history in your signature as explained here:  http://survivinganti...your-signature/

 

In this way we will be able to see when you reinstated every time you post. Windows and waves mean that symptoms will come and go sometimes at full force after they subsided for a while. We just have to be very patient. It usually takes months to feel the same as we felt before abruptly taking away the drug that has become a part of the brain structure.  

 

The way you are feeling not only about your symptoms but about things in general is probably influenced by neuroemotions: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/137-neuro-emotion/

 

You are doing well and you will continue to improve but it will be bumpy and take time. That's why we all need lots of patience.

 

best,

bubble

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geminigirl

Hey,

 

As you can see from my signature, I tapered too fast several months ago so I updosed to  my original dose of 20 mg. I have been trying to stabilize at 20 mg for two months now, but I still feel some withdrawal which is annoying.

 

I want to start tapering soon, but I am not sure if I should start my slow taper now or wait another extra month to stabilize more before I taper?

 

I know people say I have to get as stable as possible for me to start tapering, but I thought after two months of stabilizing it would be enough time. I am just not sure if these withdrawal symptoms will go away after another month and if it would make a difference.

 

Let me know your thoughts!

 

Thank you

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Meimeiquest

Well, are you up for feeling a lot worse when you resume tapering?

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geminigirl

Of course not. That's why i'm asking, should I wait another few months to stabilize? I just am not sure if I will get better by waiting another few months, or if this is as good as it gets, and the drug isn't working as well as it did before?

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geminigirl

Ya, I just want to feel better asap, so I am not sure if I should start tapering now? Maybe I would feel better if I start tapering now?

 

It's so weird, like I got better after reinstating to 20 mg, and now after 8 weeks, I get headaches again, which disappeared before. Explanation?

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geminigirl

Hey guys,

 

So I have put my signature up now. I have been taking 20 mg of celexa for 7 weeks now. I updosed after too erratic of a taper after I basically crashed. I updosed to my original 20 mg. I know many of you said that I should have gone up to only about 15 mg, as my body was already a bit used to being without such a high dose. Even though I have found relief by going back to the original dose the past 7 weeks, I still have quite a strong headache, feel extremely tired and just not right.

 

I am worried my brain just isn't responding as well to the 20 mg as it was before my fast taper. I am not sure if I should just wait longer to stabilize on the 20 mg, or if I should start tapering now. I just am confused cuz I should be feeling a lot better by now, but I still feel crappy. I am not sure how much longer I should wait, and also wondering if this isn't withdrawal after all, but rather my brain is sore because I went up too high of a dose after my taper? I know people have said that some may have an adverse reaction if they go too high up, and I am not sure if this is the case with me?

 

What to do?

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bubble

Hello gemini,

 

I have merged your new post with oyur original thread because it pertains to your particular situation.

 

I would say that under the circumstances you are doing great. The period it will take us to stabilise depends on many factors: your past drug history but also how deeply you have destabilised your CNS with a too quick taper and sudden changes.

 

Just to give you an idea: it took me 4 months. So my warm advice is to count your blessings that reinstatement worked, that you are feeling significantly better and also arm yourself with patience. Your CNS will be grateful.

 

Even if 20 mg had been a bit too much, you have been on it for 7 weeks. Our CNS heals through stability and not so much through any particular doses. It has simply done a lot of work to adjust itself to this situation. It's not wise to interfere. 

 

Please read this: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6632-the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable/

 

As I said, I think you are doing well and I expect your symptomsto continue decresing as you hold.

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geminigirl

Bubble,

 

Thank you so much!!! You don't know how much appreciate yours and others comments. The worst thing is being alone in this I think.

 

But ya, I am glad you think that I will continue stabilizing. I think overall I have been, but at a snail pace, and some days I feel better and then it gets worse and then a bit better. Extremely slow.

 

I can't believe it took you 4 months. Did you also do a fast taper and then wanted to stabilize? Did you eventually fully stabilize?

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bubble

I am very happy if I can help you at least a bit knowing how horrible I felt and how much this forum meant to me. More than any doctor ever.

 

From what you describe, it seems you are going through a windows and waves pattern of recovery which is yet another good sign. Reading through this thread helped me to endure: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/82-the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-recovery/

 

I stopped taking two drugs at once (a particularly bad idea). I managed pretty well for 30 days only to crash badly after some 40 days. I felt like I was literally losing my mind with what I later learnt were racing thoughts and depersonalisation/derealisation. I never experienced anything like that either before I started taking drugs or before discontinuing them.

 

Yes, for 4 months I walked around like a zombie but I was so relieved that I stopped going crazy and that every day after reinstating I would have initially very brief but then longer periods when I could function better. I don't know how I managed but I worked full hours all that time and being busy but operating at a very slow speed helped me to get better. Reading things on this forum gave me strength and patience to endure. I started tapering again after 4 months and have been feeling better ever since. Sometimes I even feel better than I felt before discontinuing, sometimes even bettter than ever in my life but I also continue to have bad days. However, it is manageable.

 

It is a slow process but it allows us to regain our quality of life. Then we can focus more on our lives, personal growth and let tapering unwinding in the background. I would and I still do, focus on moments of feeling good and using them optimally rather than looking at things which are still and temporarily not working well.

 

You will make it ;)

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geminigirl

Thanks bubble :)

 

After waiting a few more months like you, I also want to taper down. Do you think a 5% reduction every month would be a good idea? I am quite sensitive so going a bit lower than the 10% reduction most people do.

 

I agree with you, I trust you and the others on this forum way more than a stupid doctor. The doctor is the one that put me in this situation. I have lost respect for most doctors, they seem to just be robots and not give a ****. How sad. But ya, atleast I learned a huge life lesson from this experience, always question authority and those we blindly trust (like doctors, psychiatrists, medical people, etc)

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geminigirl

Hey guys,

 

So it's been two and a half months of trying to stabalize on my original dose of celexa. I still have some withdrawal symptoms left such as headaches sometimes, brain fog, tingling in head/face, and memory loss. The memory loss might just be a side effect of the meds.

 

I know bubble said it took her 4 months to stabilize, so should I continue waiting in the hopes I fully stabilize before starting my taper?

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geminigirl

What if I don't fully stabilize? Should I just start my taper anyways? Not sure how much longer I am supposed to wait. Perhaps I reached tolerance, but not sure. I am also experiencing some health anxiety in general and am prone to depression and seeing things negatively, so if I seem freaked out, I just tend to be that way often, it doesn't have anything to do with the meds, although this withdrawal stuff is making it worse cuz I feel like I cant think properly.

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mammaP

It can take several months to stabilise GG, but you are right to consider a 5% reduction  to avoid 

withdrawal when you do restart your taper. A micro taper is less stress on the nervous system but you still

need to be as stable as possible before starting to taper again. about 7 or 8 months I think, can't remember

now! I had some windows and awful waves before I was stable enough to restart tapering.  Being stable is

being able to cope day to day without any really bad days or waves. For me it was when my waves had

become 'ripples' .  It is up to you of course but patience pays with this game. Did you have any side effects

from celexa before you started tapering?

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