Geminigirl: Hope for Healing

[geminigirl]

Hi Guys,

 

Thank you for your support.

 

It really helps and it feels so good to me when people stop by in my thread and write something. I feel like I am cared about here which is so important for me now.

 

I like the daily check ins and the ability to write how I feel. It really does mean a lot to me....

 

Thank you so much for that.

 

 

 

Ali, I just wanted to say thank you for your words. I will read them over throughout the days, and will practice what you have wrote. I believe what you are writing about is called mindfulness, meditation or Buddhism. It is extremely important I believe.

 

Brass, yes I will do that for sure although I don't believe it would escalate to that. I will call the police or my friend if my dad ever threatens violence. He did threaten it a couple of times but if I don't react to him, he calms down. I think he has a mental illness or disorder where he cant see how his behavior affects people and he often takes his anger or pain out on others subconsciously, thinking it's really about the person, rather than his own anger and pain. He has never had therapy and I don't think he ever will. He also hates drug addicts, prostitutes, etc. He thinks they are scum of the earth rather than hurting people. Again, no compassion. He is also paranoid and delusional thinking I am up to no good (according to him.) It's honestly disturbing and scary to watch him react that way as you can tell he is not right in the head and yet he also can become aggressive very quickly. Quite a dangerous person I would say. He also can become super sweet and caring at times, but then it can turn to hate in a matter of seconds. So its best to stay away from people like that. Do not let the niceness fool you lol.

 

I also wanted to tell you guys and ask if you guys have had some of those experiences, but it almost feels like when I am on these drugs, it's like my subconscious and CNS is more sensitive or opened kind of? That also means I can feel more of my childhood trauma stuff, like its more real now or something, as well as if I have a nightmare, it hard to forget it, it stays in my mind longer. It almost feels like these drugs strip away a layer of protection or maybe clarity/rationality, and therefore dealing with difficult issues becomes even harder. I honestly don't understand this part. I feel for sure these drugs take away a sense of reality and groundedness.

 

Do you guys know when they will come back? Also Brass, you said the memory and clarity does come back as I will continue to taper my dose. What about my sense of reality and groundedness, does that come back? It also seems to me these drugs cause neuroemotions, making me feel things I don't feel. I don't know if its withdrawal or the drugs. Will these go away too? Lolz, I know you guys have said it before probably, but I would love the reassurance.

 

Thanks,

 

Yana

[geminigirl]

Hi Guys,

 

Sorry I also wanted to ask.....

 

I always feel worse when I take my meds. I am currently at 10 mg and have been for about 10 days. I dont think I am getting withdrawal, I think it is actually the side effects of the drugs. One of the worst ones I feel is a disconnection from others. It makes me feel very alone. It's a very subtle thing, but it's real. I dunno if you guys experienced this disconnection/derealization/depersonalization. It feels horrible and so lonely and alienating. I think its one of the reasons I have not been able to make friends in a while.

 

This morning I did not have it, but once I took my meds, I got it again.

 

Is there any chance I can start tapering to like a lower dose even though ive been on 10 mg for only 10 days? I dont know if I will get withdrawals, but it just seems that the side effects of the meds are so sh*tty.

 

It would suck to have to live like this for another 20 days.

 

I am also still confused as to whether I do have withdrawal or not, its so confusing cuz I dunno if its the side effects or withdrawal. I mainly have akathesia, vivid dreams, depression, anxiety, fear, and disconnection/derealisation. It has gotten better though since being on the 10 mg from 15.5 mg. The symptoms I have now also come and go throughout the day, usually depending when I take my 2 mg dose. I take 5, 2 mg doses per day.

 

The disconnection feeling also is the worst because it often makes me want to die because it feels like life will always be like this, disconnected from people. I was a weirdo even before the meds (an outsider, didn't fit in well) and now it's like even worse to the point where I feel like I have autism when I take my morning dose.

 

This early morning before taking my meds I felt more real and not as disconnected though, so that's why I was hoping if I can reduce my doses, I will feel more real again.

 

So ya, any advice on whether I should taper now or wait another 20 days? My body and brain is telling me to get off this stuff, but I know people say here it's not recommended even if the actual drug makes me feel like crap when I take it.

 

It's like taking poison when it makes you sick, yet not being able to stop taking it because your body has to come off it slowly. Is that how you guys feel? It just doesn't make sense to have to take something that makes you feel hell, yet not being able to stop for far of withdrawal.

 

I feel also because of this drug I have like 20 different personalities depending on how the drug makes me feel that day. For instance this morning I felt very loving and close to people, then took my dose, now don't give a **** anymore. This is like a daily occurance and is oh so exhausting.

 

Advice appreciated.

[geminigirl]

Hi,

 

Sorry if I am bugging you guys or repeating myself.

 

I just wanted to ask for anyone who can help me.

 

I really feel like I am stuck.

 

I have been on 10 mg for about 12 days and have been feeling so much better on this dose, more real, more alive, and it really helps cutting up my dose for the day into smaller doses. I take 2 mg, 5 times a day.

 

I honestly am confused though because before I take my doses, I always feel so much better, more real more alive, then I take the dose and I get akathesia again.

 

I feel like I want to get off the drugs so bad because of how horrible they make me feel, the faster the better, especially cuz of akathesia and my brain going all fuzzy. But you guys said that i should do the 10% per month taper. I know alto said that if all goes well, I can follow the slightly faster taper guidelines (10% per month reduction two times, then 10% reduction for three weeks, then two, then one, etc.)

 

But it honestly feels like my body wants to get off faster, especially cuz i feel so good and then its time to take my dose and all that good feeling turns into the drug induced state and akathesia and it feels like torture honestly. I just want to ask, is it normal to still feel like **** while you are taking the drug and tapering? I just feel like my brain has adjusted well to the 10 mg dose and now it wants to go lower. i dunno if my thinking currently is just irrational or not, as I feel being on this drug also takes away my ability to plan ahead, but ya.

 

Do you guys think I should just stick to the 10% per month taper for now just to make sure I dont get bad withdrawals down the road? It just feels horrible to have to take the drug when I know my body is healing and adjusting to the smaller dose.

 

I know i've asked this question before but I would really like to know if anybody has some answers. I don't want to go through this **** anymore, feeling so good, then taking my med and feeling the stupid akathesia, doom feelings, and disconnection again. I feel imprisoned and oh so angry at the stupid stupid and evil doctors and big pharma. I really do want to start a class action lawsuit with some people once I am off and well. This is just so not right on so many levels. It's like these drugs take away our spirit and connection to life.

 

Anyways, replies would really help about whether I can get off faster since my brain seems to be going back to normal slightly to how it used to be.

[geminigirl]

I have also faced chronic suicidal feelings and akathesia on these drugs I just realized. I think it's because of the lack of connection it creates, lack of love, feeling of hopelessness and also doom feeling, like you are all alone in the world.

 

If I did not have hope for healing and getting of this ****, and also knowing other people did it, as well as hope that I can feel close to my therapist and build a real relationship with him, I would have killed myself a long long long long time ago. These drugs made me MUCH MORE depressed than I ever was.

 

They caused chronic doom, emptiness and depression, I just had no idea it was the drugs, cuz it creeps up on you in an evil way almost. Like a deadly mist coming into your room at night to poison you. I also became more preoccupied with death and being alone while on these drugs, as well as feeling more scared in general. It's like this drug almost says, "yes...go ahead, kill yourself...it's a good plan." Because the drug or whatever it did changed your own thinking and mind, you think that these thoughts are actually real and yours, whereas in reality they are all drug induced.

 

I am so glad that I did have the windows as they showed me what a real sound and healthy mind is supposed to feel like. Yes, I still have issues when I feel the windows, but they feel more human and manageable.

 

This drug induced state is something else. Some kind of virus in your mind. I honestly feel this drugs almost cost me my life. I have come often so so so so close to death, I felt like I was at the brink of death, even looking at times for things to kill myself with, and it's like so so so much of it was the drugs.

 

I have self harmed before the drugs and did want to die, but it's like the drugs make you almost trapped in that state.

 

I don't even know who I am anymore, because the drugs change so much of our sense of selves. Like is this feeling mine, or is it the drug? Is this happiness mine or the drug?

 

If I could run a thousand miles away from this drug and get it out of my brain, I would be like a world champion sprinter.

 

I have not been able to grow, do therapy, get close to people or form new fulfilling relationships for years, and it's not because I didn't have people who cared. I did. But the drug poisoned my mind and ability to feel love and bond.

 

For someone like me who came from an abusive family, feeling close to people and bonding is everything! But yet, no, the drug takes that away. I HATE YOU CELEXA. I HATE YOU BIG PHARMA.

 

Sorry that my emotions right now can only be expressed through the mind of a 5 year old. I swear when I get through this I will be more rational and actually take action, coherent, wise, strong action against big pharma. Even if in a small way or hopefully big way, I will speak up and do something. I will help others get off this stuff. We cannot lose our spirits, hearts and hopes and dreams to this stuff.

 

I never let my parents or society take away my heart, and hopes and dreams, I will not let a drug do that either, even if the drug wants to kill me. I will not let it. I have too much to lose.

[geminigirl]

I also just wanted to add that I do feel I guess that there is some withdrawal symptoms as my CNS seems more excitable and alert than before. Like overly excitable and alert and sounds, pictures, facial expressions and music affects me much more at times, and can be overly stimulating.

 

I am guessing this is withdrawal too so I should keep at my 10 mg dose otherwise my CNS will feel even more sensitized?

 

CNS sensitivity and akathesia feels quite similar to me at times.

 

I guess perhaps because my CNS is more sensitized, when my take my daily dose of celexa, it reacts to it that much more, hence I get increased akathesia.

 

It just doesn't make sense to me that my body now gets sick because of taking the very drug it's supposed to be adapted too.

 

Someone please tell me that it's normal to get akathesia from the drug, even while tapering....?

 

Cuz ya, I just realized, sitting here, not having taken my drug yet, and I still feel overly sensitized. So ya, it might not be the side effect of the drug, but withdrawal after all, and then taking the drug makes it worse.

 

Does that make sense?

 

I hope this is all normal and I am on the right track.

 

And ya, I guess going faster than 10% right now might not be a good idea as my CNS is already overly sensitized/destabalized.

[mammaP]

Hi Yana, you have worked it all out by yourself there, by writing how you feel and getting it all out. It is not the same as talking to someone but when there is no one who will listen, writing it down is the nest best thing.  You are feeling better than you were, and even though you are still having side effects it is better than withdrawal. Hang on a bit longer until the withdrawal symptoms have stopped, you seem to be aware of your body enough to know which is withdrawal and which are side effects. Neither are easy to live with but allowing your brain to adjust between doses lessens  withdrawal. I know what you mean about dreams lingering, I have that too and it feels like they are real. It takes hours to recover from the 'trauma' that was in my dreams. I can't watch violent movies or the news because the images stay with me and keep repeating over and over again, like watching the same video again and again.  It got much better after I finished my taper off effexor but is back now I am tapering tramadol but I can handle it better this time and I know it will pass again. 

 

You will get better and get your life on track, and I hope that you will be able to find someone who can help you to deal with all the trauma and experiences you have had so you can cope without drugs. I am learning to let my past go, many of us here  are having to learn how to be ourselves, and find out who we really are, it's quite an experience! 

[geminigirl]

Hi MammaP,

 

Thank you for your words. I will stick with my current dose and then just try to get through the side effects. I have about two more weeks of being on 10 mg, then going to 9 mg. If no severe withdrawal, I will try decreasing the next dose in 3 weeks. I dunno, we will see how it goes.

 

Yana

[geminigirl]

Feeling stuck in the prison of my pain and these pills which make things feel okay when I know things arent.

 

I just want to feel again. Be real. So I can finally let go and let love in, create relationships, open my heart, experience life, freedom, beauty.

 

I mainly feel fear, imprisonment and suffering now. I suffer because of my 28 year long loneliness as well as the imprisonment of this suffering within a litlte pill called celexa which numbs my true self.

 

If I feel like a newborn baby, screaming, howling at the moon, for my mother, I would rather feel that terror and pain and longing and fire rather than all of this being trapped within, sitting there, for years and years, like a virus, starting to eat away at it's own flesh.

 

I am sitting here typing in great pain, my inner child and baby almost reaching death. It so much wants to come out, howl and cry into the world, let go to my new mother, but I can't. I can't. It's all been crushed inside the medication.

 

I wither away into the darkness, dissapear, become the dust, I am almost not there. Only one little ounce of hope remains. It's been carrying me for 28 years. This little ounce of hope. That one day, I can let go all of my pain and finally love another human being, the way i've always wanted, the way i've craved for, ever since I was born into the world. The plight of the lonely baby.

 

Your heart obliterated into the wind, you dissapeared. The day you almost died was when you were born.

 

And now, this little ounce of hope still remains. 28 years later. How is that possible?

 

When I should have died a long time ago.

 

I was waiting for you Geoff. You are my one and only. I love you. I see you, but can't feel you. Something is missing.

 

Just to feel close like how I wanted when I was born, to be able to love in that way, for one moment, would be enough. One minute.

 

Then I can dissapear again into the ocean of darkness with a smile on my face , my heart warm with you.

 

It did not matter who it was Geoff, you or a lady or my own mom. As long as there was someone.

 

It was all I needed. Just one little person to hold on to.

 

My fists stopped clenching in that first day. There was nothing to hold onto. I grasped at the air at the moon, but it would not hold me or catch me when I fell.

 

I could have let go to God, but a human is much easier to let go to.

 

Tears flowing down my cheeks.

 

When I was a baby I waited. When I was a toddler I waited. When I was a teenager I waited. As an adult, at 23, I found you finally. This time around though, you were waiting as I had been taken away by something which put me into a world far away. Away from everything. A little pill, developed for all the others who were waiting and could not find anyone.

 

Will you still be there when I am ready this time around? Will you be the one to catch me? The one to lock eyes with, for the very first time?

 

I promise you Geoff, that day, will be the best day of my life. You came for me, yes it is spiritual and emotional not physical, but you came. I found what I had wanted all along. I want to feel it already. I am so tired and impatient. I had found my love, and yet they made me dead inside, it's like they wanted to complete my death, for me to never find you. I think that's what it was. They wanted me to never get what I wanted. Unknowingly. They do that you know. The doctors and society. People are mean to each other. But really, all we are are hurting little babies inside. All of us. May god and life heal us all and bring us love. That is what I want for all of us. All the babies of the world.

 

Even if I never get that moment or minute, if you do die before I am ready to meet you for the first time, know that I knew what it was anyways. I knew what we had. Pretty soon after I had met you. I knew you were special. I knew there was something. You carried me for several years I believe. Your love for me. Without you I would have died so long ago. I just wish I could see you. I am so blind. I never saw the one I loved, the one that helped me and loved me. I never saw him. Please God, I ask you to awaken me faster so I can have my moment. Please make me real again and bring me back to life. I want to see the world again. I want to help others. I want to feel my pain. I want to cry at the moon, to laugh in the sky, to celebrate the life within me.

 

I love you.

 

Yana

[scallywag]

Hi Yana,  your most recent post^ has provoked my concern.  What's going on in your life right now?

[geminigirl]

Oh Hi Scallywag,

 

I am doing fine, do not worry.

 

It's just when I was on this drug I was doing therapy with my therapist Geoff who is kind of like my surrogate mom in a way. (My own mother was absent for most of my life) I was seeing my therapist for 5 years, and it was really hard seeing him in a way and feeling real because the pill numbed me so much. I was seeing him for 5 years but it's like I was almost not there, which is hard for me because that relationship is so crucial to me.

 

My therapy was basically like an attachment type therapy, but it wasnt working very well (attaching to my therapist) because the drug made me so fucked up and absent. So now that I am tapering, I feel more like my self kind of before the drugs and I feel sad and depressed in a way because I don't remember much of my relationship with Geoff (my therapist) because I was so out of it and have/had memory loss. Also, attaching to him was too stressful for my nervous system as the drug made me overly sensitive and irrational, so it never really happened.

 

I am back now living with my abusive parents (although I am better able to seperate myself from them and have slightly better coping skills) and ya, I just get overwhelmed and depressed often because my parents are mean to me and cross my boundaries.

 

I am trying to find a bf or friend now so that I could possibly live with them instead. I think that would be much better for me, but because my brain is still impaired, I have a hard time going out into the world and doing stuff. I have amnesia and memory loss and have weird social skills now. So I feel quite stuck.

 

I also yesterday was very depressed because I got triggered by my parents, so I wrote that on my threat, more just to let my feelings out and express myself.

 

I am going through a lot now and don't have much support, but i am hopeful and trying to get there. The drug just makes it so much worse. I was already a very fragile and sensitive person before the drug and the drug taking away my cognitive abilities and rationality and any resiliency that i did have is catastrophic to me.

 

However, I feel I am getting slightly better.

 

I just feel very confused because as I taper, I am getting more memories of my past (which was not super good), but not any of the good stuff i experienced with my therapist Geoff (holding hands, him hugging me, etc.) and those are the memories that I actually want to remember, but I can't because I was on a higher dose of the drug when I was seeing him.

 

So in a way I have to start over in therapy. (After 5 years of time wasted in a way)

 

It feels quite horrible for me. I think it's just a lot worse because of this drug withdrawal and side effects, etc.

 

I am trying to take it day by day but I feel like I am in survivor mode in a way and often feel quite depressed because all the time I spent in therapy feels like a waste because I was a completely different person on the higher dose of the drug,

[geminigirl]

And like Alto said,

 

It's like these drugs bring up your most deep vulnurabilities and pains and emotions in the neuroemotion type of way (and mine are very deep and traumatizing) and hence why therapy was almost traumatic to me because I just couldnt deal with them or resolve them while on this drug, it's like they made everything worse, literally trapping me within my most horrific fears, pains, and loneliness.

 

I thought I was just doing something wrong in therapy, but it was the drugs all along that made it almost impossible to deal with my issues. I have no idea why- whether your prefrontal cortex is damaged or because you are so damn high or sedated all the time- probably both.

 

The past 5 years have literally been hell for me (I think that was the time when I updosed from 10 mg to 20 mg) It's like all hell broke loose.

 

Literally, if i was somewhat depressed before, the drug made me soooooo fricking depressed I thought of suicide every second of the day. I am lucky i did not kill myself because the depression the drug made me feel was horrific, it just completely dissociates you from people, live or any hope. Literally, a psychological and emotional torture chamber.

[scallywag]

Yana, Thanks for taking time to clarify your situation and your post. Taking things day by day, living in survivor mode is all that it takes right now. Everyone goes through this, especially people on these drugs or dealing with withdrawal from them.  It's good that you realize that many of the emotions are part of withdrawal. Keep hanging in there.

[geminigirl]

I know Paul said in his recovery (see paul's recovery) that going through this is like real torture. Like when you get water boarded. Rollercoaster of the most hellish of emotions, then you get a window, you can breath and down again you go.

 

It is highly traumatic because some of the issues we all face and pain and trauma from the past is real, especially if unresolved, then the drugs amplify them.

 

It is hellish.

[geminigirl]

Scallywag,

 

Thank you so much and much love.

 

Funny enough as soon as I posted that I felt like my old self again, more loving and passionate, feeling things more. Its up and down always.

[geminigirl]

I am wondering, is the up and down feelings I've experienced and crazy all over the place emotions part of the drug side effects, long term brain damage to my amygdala, prefrontal cortex and executive function or withdrawal from the meds? I am so so so confused. I think it would help if someone could clear this up.

 

Best,

 

Yana

[scallywag]

It's withdrawal symptoms and/or drug side effects.

[geminigirl]

Okay thanks Scally

 

Today was an okay day. Very busy.

 

I am getting some clarity and realness back. I actually feel more like myself again and a human. Like I have a beating heart, I breathe air, etc. Before i felt like true zombie.

 

Memory loss still bad, unable to really take initiative and plan stuff. I seem to also start thinking about something and then literally like a car you keep trying to turn on it, it turns on and then shuts off again. Thats how my brain feels like. i start thinking of something and just when I think I am getting somewhere I forget what I was thinking about. This also happens with planning, I start going somewhere, then I forget where. Still have some OCD, panic/terror feelings. I try to just let it go now and just watch the feelings like waves but do not react to them. I am not as scared of withdrawal or side effects now because i know they are just that and not the real me.

 

It also helps when I start to feel the more real me coming back and some kind of inner strength and perspective and conncetion with life. I am very angry at what these drugs have done to me all these years without me actually knowing it.

 

Still have issues with trusting people and attaching with people. I had that before the drugs but the drugs made it worse. I feel a disconnect still between myself and the world. My CNS is still very very fragile, I get startled easily and also things seem more vivid and acute than normal, like people seem more vivid as well as their voices, faces, expressions, etc. It makes it quite hard to make new friends in this state which I am in desperate need of.

 

I am looking for loving and caring friends. I used to hang around a lot of people with poor boundaries and codpendent and I really do not want those types of friends anymore.

 

I am learning more to rely on myself again and feel okay in my own skin. It's hard to do this when the drug makes you feel so so so horrific and you are in withdrawal too. The drug also created a horrific depression for me, like horrific, where I prayed many times to just die and then being sad that i woke up in the morning.

 

I have faced many many many other atrocities on this drug. I mean horror horror horror. I also did not take care of myself physically for years and had lots of creepy crawly guests visiting me. Yes, very gross.

 

My judgment, sanity, thinking and reasoning was completely haywire on these drugs especially the higher dose. I am praying desperately as I taper lower I will be even more coherent and have more normal and rational thinking and reasoning.

 

I think I really am prolly one of the top cases of how badly and sick these drugs made me. They disabled me emotionally and mentally, turning me into an isolated, needy, clingy, delusional basket case for 2 years at the least. I feel my story can be at least somewhat hopefulf or some because even though the drug wanted me to kill myself countless of times, I never did I preservered. The suicidal feelings have lessened now.

 

Neuroemotion is very scary though. For some reason the drugs made me feel neuroemotion like the whole time i was on them. If i felt scared, it made me 100X more scared, if I was embaressed, it made me 100X more, it also made me feel helpless like a little child to the world.

 

I still feel this vulnurability often and it doesnt feel good especially if I take my dose and then akathesia and brain fog hits.

 

I do not have any people currently physically with me who support me much emotionally with this so I am pretty much doing this whole thing on my own. I also have severe trust/attachment issues which is why its hard for me to rely on anyone or open up to anyone in my real daily life and hopefully they could help me.

 

I am slowly working on this and hoping to meet some nice people soon though. I want to let more people into my life but it's much harder when you have neuroemotion because i already have trust issues and then neuroemotion makes it worse and more scary.

 

I also have this fear that people will not like me or will reject me if they notice i have this brain injury. I was already weird/off a bit socially before the drugs, now I feel more so and like people notice.

 

Tomorrow I am going to a brain injury picnic get together with people who have had brain injuries so maybe I can meet some people then. I really am pretty antisocial though. I usually just pick one or two people to chat with and am scared with most others lol.

 

It's easier for me to type here because there is no face to face and less vulnurable. It still helps tremendously though and I hope one day people will ready my story and hopefully recovery story too.

[JanCarol]

So GG - I actually think that it would be a fine time for a tiny, tiny taper.

 

You are on 10 mg a day, in 5 doses of 2 mg each?

 

Do you have the precision to make that 3 doses of 2 mg, and 2 doses of 1.8 mg?  This is just a 4% decrement, and while it is important to keep the dose as steady as possible, because you are taking 5x a day, we may be able to decrease in tiny amounts throughout the day until all of your doses are down to 1.8. (a full 10% cut).

 

If we take it slow, nice and easy, you might be able to do it.

 

I realize you are still struggling with DP/DR symptoms, but you are also wrestling with the identity and abuse and trauma that got you drugged in the first place.

 

What do you think?

[geminigirl]

Hi Jancarol,

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

I don't think I will taper yet as I am still having withdrawal symtpoms such as cold, still depersonalization, tiredness, hyperness, memory issues still, etc. I am thinking of tapering again on the 6th of July...Going down to 9 mg.

 

People say the withdrawals get worse at the lower doses. Is that true?

 

My feelings have not really come back much at 10 mg. I do feel more real and human though which is good.

 

Anyways, I am thinking I will taper at 6/8 weeks on 10 mg. I want to make a longer hold at the 10 mg because I went from 15.5 mg to 10 quite quickly. So ya, just to be safe.

 

Can anybody tell me their experiences tapering at the lower doses?

[LexAnger]

hey Ggirl,

 

Please take a look at the chart which explains perfectly why it's harder to taper the low doses.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6036-why-taper-paper-demonstrates-importance-of-gradual-change-in-plasma-concentration/

[brassmonkey]

HI Yana-- it's not that the WD becomes worse, in fact symptoms show marked improvement the lower you go. The big problem is that very small changes in dose can have a very big effect on how your body reacts. As illustrated by the charts that Lex posted the link to. So there is no need to fear things getting worse, but one has to really pay attention to how their body is reacting, take more time between drops and do smaller changes to keep things under control.

[geminigirl]

Hi Brass,

 

Thanks for all the info. It helps.

 

I will do the brass monkey slide probably the lower I go.

 

I have been on 10 mg for 3 weeks now. Gonna wait another 3 and then drop to 9 mg.

 

Just a question, can I still taper if I am having symtpoms from my recent drop or am I supposed to not have many withdrawals at all before the next drop?

 

You said once you are not supposed to be symptom free to drop.

[brassmonkey]

If you can attribute the symptoms to a recent drop then it's a good idea to wait a little longer. Let things settle back to WDnormal before dropping again.

[geminigirl]

What is withdrawal normal?

[brassmonkey]

This is a general description I wrote up a while ago:

 

I see WDnormal as the overall baseline of where you are in general. The place you are when you're not feeling good, but you're not feeling bad. Sorta a rolling average of the past couple of months between the windows and waves.  Watching the level of WDnormal is a good indicator that things are improving.  Over time you should be seeing a raising of the standard for WDnormal.  So how you're feeling now is better than say six months ago. It changes very slowly but is a really good indicator.

[geminigirl]

Hi Brass,

 

Okay thanks for letting me know.

 

That is what I thought.

 

I do feel a lot a lot better than I did 3 weeks ago when my system was more sensitive.

 

I still feel very traumatized by the therapy I did the past 5 years and how deep into my subconscious I went without being able to heal it and get past it. I thank the evil drug for that. It made doing therapy any pain basically 100x more horrible and actually made me stuck in my own childhood pain and trauma cuz the drug kind of makes you stuck in your own psyche and time stands still.

 

I know many people say being on this drug is like torture. I cannot agree more.

 

5 years of torture for me to be exact. One long acid trip, that's what it felt like.

 

I am currently at 10 mg still, I am getting a lot of rational mind and personality back from before the drug expect with added trauma from the drug making me go so deep into my subconscious.

 

I believe and pray to the lord that I will recover and be able to actually enter my subconscious once again except with clarity and my personality there to support me, so I can finally heal my childhood trauma and pain. Going into the subconscious taught me that we have very real wounds inside of us that need healing, love, and our attention.

 

At this point I cannot go too deep into it though as I need more healing for my brain.

 

If anybody has followed my story, you will know that I was trying to do primal therapy for 5 years and attach to my therapist so I can change my attachment pattern from insecure to secure, something I never had with my own parents or mother. Unfortunately, almost to my complete downfall and end of me, the drug made getting really close to my therapist and finally letting love in impossible. As a result, what had happened was just a retraumatization of my childhood, as the drug made me feel the pain even more potently. I would not wish this on anyone, but unfortunately, I had to experience it, and if somebody knew my devastation at having met the person that I waited for all my childhood and then not being able to let him in but rather becoming traumatized instead, they would shed many years.

 

I pray now for myself and others to allow God to give me the gift of really attaching to my therapist one day, someone I deeply deeply love, and for me to be healed from this drug to be able to do that.

 

For now, I must put away this lifelong yearning and dream to the side, much to my heartbreak and painful protest.

 

Life for me so far has been incredibly hard and painful, but I pray people will give me blessings to be bring me to my therapist once more with a healed mind and heart, with enough strength to really open my heart to him and others. I have waited too long, far too long for a fragile soul for me. I have gone through oceans of time to find him, and to be enligned with love and my childhood soul again. Oceans of time. If any old soul deserves a break, it is this little spirit in me. Hoping and waiting for eternity.

 

With all my innermost desires and dreams shared with you friends,

 

This is what I am doing currently to forget about the trauma of this drug and to carry on with my new self:

 

- Listening to beautiful soothing music (James Taylor currently)

- Still having hope

- Not to give energy or much thought to a negative feeling or thought or trauma that comes up, let it swim by me like a wave, just watching it pass, to not spiral down with it or get lost in it. Remind yourself- It is just a thought/feeling, it may have or is real, but it does not need to own me

- Spending time with family- Yes they are dysfunctional and not what I had hoped for in a family. They are crazy, mean sometimes, irrational, cold and blind in many ways, but they are better than no family.

- Being present with other humans- no matter who, just their presence helps me see I am human too and alive

- Telling myself that nothing ever stays the same- I can feel like the worst ****, doom, horror, abject terror of my life, but this too can change tomorrow. We morph and change all the time, including feelings, situations, ideas, sense of selves, identity, etc.

- Telling myself that God will keep Geoff (my therapist) safe for me until I am ready in a way to meet him again. He will not take me away from him, because it is meant to be.

- Believe in God,  in the natural order of things, that there is meaning to all my suffering, confusion, chaos. This is how God wants my life to be now. I may not see why he does want things this way now, but it can become clear to me later.

- Don't dwell on how horrible this drug is, the lost years on it, trauma, fear of the drug and what it did etc. Think of it more as another challenge that God wanted me to have to test my human spirit. When I took the this pill when I was 21, I knew I would suffer from it in a way. I knew it was bad for me, that it would take me away from myself. Forgive myself for this. Forgive myself for wanting to abolish myself. Forgive myself for not listening to my intuition- at the time it was too painful to feel or live. I was truly alone and would have died.

- Think of this drug as perhaps the thing that did save me for many years before I met my therapist Geoff. There was a reason I took it. Yes it caused temporary brain damage, but I just could not cope with life back then, I had no skills, I had severe PTSD and was going to lose my life. The pill acted like a placebo as well for me, and there was a bit of a security blanket that it gave me, a kind of dulling, perhaps at the time it was necessary. Now it no longer serves me, as it prevents love from carrying the day, what it now my savior.

- Maybe this drug is what actually enabled me to meet Geoff, to survive until I had met him. Yes, when I met him and somewhat bonded to him, it was a mistake to keep taking it, but I didn't know the drug was now becoming the problem.

- Talking to that guy in the crisis line, him listening to my story helps and makes me feel cared about. He listened to me many times over this year, non judging, kind.

- My ratties

- Hope again when all else fails. There is a part of me that knows there is light at the end of the tunnel, it always did, hence why I always kept going. I could have killed myself countless times, but I didn't. I see Geoff and my relationship with him and all that could be as my hope and beacon. My window to happiness and a fulfilling and truly joyful life. All the things I wanted can come true. Again though I ask God to keep him safe for me until I am ready ( I am often worried someone will hurt Geoff so I wont be able to see him again. I have paranoias and obsessions about this fear. It is hard for me to just let go and trust God to keep him safe for me as whenever I had trusted people in my childhood I felt like they always failed me and went away or died.)

- Hope again lol.

- Writing, reading about hope and survivor stories

- Making friends, they do not have to be perfect, giving others a small chance to know me and vice versa

- When horrible trauma feelings come up from childhood, stay cool, let them pass. I can say I am not ready yet to face you, please go away for now, or just "pass on by"

- Hope.

[geminigirl]

Hi Guys,

 

Just letting you know I have been doing better and better everyday. I am really healing and adjusting to this lower dose. I feel so much more like myself and the severe depression has gone thank the lord. I was severely depressed so long and trapped in my mind, as well as suicidal.

 

I feel much stronger in myself now and I feel my body is much stronger than it used to be as well. I am also losing weight and went for a bike ride today and it felt so good.

 

The only issue now is that I am still living with my parents and they can be quite abusive at times and although I have had a lot of therapy and know myself much better, it still hurts living with them as they are very codependent and narcissistic. Fortunately, I do have someone that loves me unconditionally (my therapist) and I just have to go see him more often to bond with him as I am on a smaller dose of this drug. I am thinking I also really want to find a loving partner and move in with him so I do not have to live with my parents as if I am honest with myself, they really are not that supportive and also they are controlling and can be aggressive.

 

I have studied Eckhart Tolle books, and know about the ego and about dealing with difficult people, however, my parents tend to push my buttons and I its annoying cuz they can be very nice and loving one minute then cruel the next. Obviously any person would get their feelings hurt.

 

I have not had an easy life so far, but I am trying to focus on the positive living with my parents and forgive them for their cruelty, that really is the only way to live with them. It is not okay what they do, but what I try to do is just care about them as humans and forgive them because they do not know what they are doing. I know they are sick and so I think of it that way.

[geminigirl]

It is very very hard to love people who are mentally ill and or narcissistic/psychopathic and or miserable.

 

My therapist, Geoff wrote this poem.

 

I'm not asking you to love because It is the right thing to do.

I am not asking you to love so you can feel like a better person.

I am not asking you to love because they are easy to love.

I am asking you to love so you can be happy.

[geminigirl]

Hi Guys,

 

I dunno if anybody has been following my thread, but I haven on 10 mg for about 3 weeks now and I am doing better and better each day. The lower dose is so so so much better and I don't have the bad withdrawal I did the first week or so. I also think me splitting up my dose into several bits each day has helped so much with some of the hellish side effects of these drugs including akathesia, increased suicidal ideation, delusions, memory loss, etc.

 

I just took my last dose for the day and right away I feel more stupid.

 

I am thinking it might be time to taper down to 9 mg as I am doing pretty well. I feel my system has stabilized quite well to 10 mg, and I feel I can handle a drop. I honestly don't think I will feel much of a difference going to 9 mg. My body seems to have accumulative withdrawal as I call it, which means that only after several months of tapering do I get kind of bad withdrawal, and then that usually lasts about a month and then I get a lot better.

 

I am a little nervous tapering down to 9 mg, I am afraid of going through the same hell I went through when I dropped from 20 mg to 15.5 and then had horrific withdrawals at 15.5 after the accumulation.

 

Some of the withdrawals are so horrible because they literally make you feel like you are dying the the world in front of you is falling into hell as well as your own sense of self. That thing inside of us that holds together, keeps us sane, falls apart.

 

Anyways, I am rambling again because I just took my dose and it makes my thinking less clear. But ya, let me know if I should taper in a week or hold for another 3 weeks (6 weeks total)

 

I am definitely feeling impatient cuz when I take the drug I always feel like **** after but before I feel better than ever. I dunno its very confusing.

 

Its strange but I feel that when my CNS was more sensitive, its like it was reacting more strongly to the drug itself, and I had worse side effects. That is so strange hey?

[geminigirl]

Can I ask alto a question?

[AliG]

Gemini.  Although she is great , Alto is not always available. It is more productive to ask a question and then see who answers.    There are many here who are knowledgeable and caring . 

[scallywag]

Gemini - I've moved the post you made in a standalone topic in the Tapering forum.  The topic title was: "How to know if I can do a faster taper?"

 

It is now post #362 above.  I don't have an answer for you right now, and might not until I read what someone else posts in response.

[geminigirl]

Okay thanks,

 

Ya cuz I really feel I am getting better and then when I take my dose I feel like ****, senses are dulled again as well as thinking and comprehension. I feel like so much of my distress all these years was because it was very hard for me to think for myself as the drugs cloud this, as well as adding increased fear. Usually I feel what happens for me is if I feel scared, I can use my brain to tell me its really okay, that I am safe, but because my brain isn't working, its like my fear gets heightened! Its a horrible drug to give therefore to "help" with depression and anxiety. Literally all it does it just dull you and numb you, how does that help anyone? Idiots.

 

Anyways, my question is I guess if I should taper again at the 4 weeks point. Which will be July 8th. Or if I should hold another 2 weeks. It honestly feels sickening to me though cuz I just feel so lousy on these drugs. I honestly think for me the side effects of the drug has been much worse than any withdrawal.

 

I believe the withdrawals I did get, at various points (and when I dropped from 20 mg to 15 it was really bad, although I don't think I was tapering properly.) But ya, back then it was pretty bad, I had shivers, feeling like im on speed, then heroin, then normal, I also had dhiarrea, couldn't sleep for about 4/5 days, and had severe memory loss for about a day. This only lasted a couple weeks though. I can hardly remember it now.

 

But ya, given that I went from 15 mg to 10 mg with no really bad withdrawals, does that mean I am one of those people that can do a faster taper?

 

Thanks.

[brassmonkey]

Hi Yana-- I'm so glad you're feeling better and that splitting up your dose this way has really helped.  One of the really frustrating things about tapering is how it bounces your feeling all over the place while you're doing it.  It's all part of your brain sorting things out. The worst thing we can do is to rush things when we start to feel better, there is still so much healing going on in the background that needs to be given time to stabilize, that we can't ignore it. I really think you should hold for a couple of more weeks to let that happen.

 

When things go well we all get excited and think that everything is great, which it is, until we get over confident. It's possible you could speed up your drops, but that little bit of unfinished business in the background will add up with each drop until one day a few months from now it all crashes painfully down.  We all know how painful it is when that happens and it can take many months to get things back on track.  It's much better to put up with a little discomfort and hold than to suffer through a crash, reinstatement, and subsequent longer taper.  Please be patient and let your body do its job.

 

(((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))

 

Brass

[geminigirl]

Okay Brass,

 

I will take your advice to heart.

 

God Bless,

 

Yana

[geminigirl]

I made the mistake yesterday of going on a super long bike ride in the heat.

 

Today I think I have sunstroke. I cant sleep and my body hurts all over. I also have headache, that sunstrokey feeling, and really bad nerve pain all throughout my hands and arms and shoulders. It really hurts and it feels like parathesia too.

 

I guess I was a mistake to go out riding for so long, but I guess metaphorically, I was trying to get out of my situation (being on these drugs, all that I went through, living in toxic family, etc.) I was trying to "move forward" via my bike, but it really set me back.

 

I think I will try swimming next time as I am not ready yet for long bike rides. Today my body feels like hell.

 

I am confused as to why though I have really bad nerve pain all through my arms. Somebody grabbed both my wrists a long time ago and it caused a pinch nerve I think, but that incident was like 4 months ago and I did not have any issues until now. I think Alto said that withdrawal can exacberatte underlying ailments?

 

Anyways, I dunno. But ya,  feel like crap today and I feel sad because of it.

 

I think I should be more careful with the sun too. It is getting hot here in Vancouver and I still have a sensitive CNS. I also have to remind myself just cuz I feel good doesn't mean my CNS is healed.