Geminigirl: Hope for Healing

[geminigirl]

It's been 2 days since I slept. I have been feeling over excited for the past 2 days hence not being able to sleep.

 

I am tapering by 5%. I stopped tapering and currently am just stabilizing on 15.30 mg, I updosed two days ago.

 

I am having all kinds of weird symptoms but mainly just over excitability right now, like inner excitement/adrenalin or something, hence not being able to sleep.

 

Like it's as if my brain doesn't know how to sleep anymore.

 

How long will this last?

[AliG]

GeminiGirl .  I honestly don't know . No one does. I have had ongoing sleep issues for nearly 2 years. I can empathize with your situation.If you are tapering by 5 %  and then stabilizing for a couple of months, then that is all you can do right now . Stability is " key " .

What have you tried in the way of natural sleep coping strategies ? Have a read of  these links :  There are some great strategies there for sleep . If you can just find one thing that helps, it can make all the difference to your sleep pattern . 

 

Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have withdrawal insomnia

 

Ali

[geminigirl]

Hi guys

 

I am not doing well.

 

I am going through really bad panic and anxiety, ringing in ears and just like my brain has been hijacked by withdrawal or whatever this is.

 

It is extremely frightening.

 

I can't sleep and don't know when this will end.

 

I just want my other brain back.

 

I feel like I am on a roller coaster ride. I would like some sleep as a relief but can't get any.

 

How long will this last?

[geminigirl]

I am wondering if I should reinstate at a higher dose or should I just wait it out and see if I can stabilize on 15.30 mg?

 

Thanks

[AliG]

Gemini.  . No one knows how long it will take . It will be different for everyone . . It is an individual thing .

[geminigirl]

I cannot take this this hyperactive CNS. It's killing me

[geminigirl]

I feel like I am on a hellish rollercoaster. Up and down....

 

People have gone through this right?

[geminigirl]

Hi Alto-

 

This question is for you or any other experienced mod.

 

I think I may have a reason as why I crashed recently. 

 

The way I was taking my meds is by putting 20 ml of water in a plasic little bottle, and then putting my 20 mg tablet inside.

 

I would then take out the needed dose via an oral syringe.

 

The reason I crashed I realized is because I noticed that inside the plastic little bottle where I put the meds, there was some white residue left over. I guess that was left over meds that had stuck to the bottle. :S 

 

The other reason is because I was using pretty warm to even slightly hot water sometimes because I wanted to dissolve all of the particles of the pill, but someone said apparently that you can't dissolve all of the pill since some of it has fillers which are insoluble. 

 

My question is a) is this why I crashed? and how many minutes am I supposed to wait to dissolve the tablet, and is it ok if some particles are still left undissolved? I was assuming those particles were the celexa meds, so I wanted it to be all dissolved so I used slightly more than warm water, which may or may not have damaged the meds.

 

Thank you,

 

Yana

[Altostrata]

Lukewarm water shouldn't be a problem. Heat will destroy active ingredients.

 

You need to shake your suspension to get it all distributed equally in the liquid, then draw from the middle of the liquid.

[KarenB]

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2693-how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules/

 

That thread has lots of info about making and using liquid doses.  Have a good read through it, and maybe some of the links inside it too. 

[geminigirl]

Hi guys,

Just realized how ..    " upset "  I've been the past 6 years. I literally was not there and also had severe depersonalization. For 6 years. It got worse the last 3 years. It's like I wasn't really there the whole time.

I realized that the drugs had changed me a lot, and exaggerated my feelings. Mainly though, while taking them I could not be happy at all or cry deeply or sleep deeply or love deeply. Nothing.

I am at 15.30 mg like I mentioned but still experienced withdrawal from this recent taper.

I don't know why but in the evenings my suicidal ideas get stronger and I also feel more depressed.

This is horrible.

I had no idea these drugs were ******* me up and playing with my feelings this WHOLE TIME. I am only now remembering how I was before them and it was totally different. Although I was depressed because of a break up and felt very scared and alone because the breakup triggered feelings of abandonment, I did not need those stupid stupid drugs.

I have been depressed for so long, not wanting to do anything and I had no idea it was the drugs. I had absolutely noooooooo idea. This has been a big shock. Currently my brain is working fine and I am ok although feeling too much euphoria inside (mania or whatever it is) it's just a feeling though.

But anyways,

This is horrible for me and like I said I am still in shock. It's like I am waking up to life again but my emotions are still ....     The worse parts are the depression which I thought was just part of me all this time. It's not though.

Yesterday I went on a walk somewhere because I was so extremely high and had all this warm vastness in my chest. It feels horrible though cuz I know it's unattral.

I know you guys can't tell me how long this would last, but I wish you could.

Thank you,

Yana

Edited May 14, 2016 by AliG
cleaned up language

[AliG]

GeminiGirl.    I know you're upset , but there is no need to talk that way.  Please refrain from swearing . It's not tolerated here.   

[geminigirl]

Hi guys,

 

Just giving you an update.

 

I am feeling slightly better although still quite shocked and shaken up.

 

I really want to have hope though. I have too much to lose.

 

I also wanted to let you guys know that I am getting some feelings back and some empathy.

 

AliG, I understand you don't want me to swear. You have to understand that sometimes when I post here I am in withdrawal and don't make much sense. I am hoping you can understand and have compassion for me, as I have for myself, for you, and others suffering from this. Sorry if you are offended though. Best.

 

Yana

[geminigirl]

Hi,

 

I have a question.

 

For the past 6 months I have been tapering from 20 mg to 15.30 mg, 5% decreases every month.

 

This past week though is when the withdrawal really hit me. I am wondering if whether it makes a different to taper so slowly if the withdrawal doesn't hit me now, it will hit me eventually.

 

So like maybe I can get off this **** a bit faster? I am really not sure.

 

If I continue the 5% taper, the withdrawal might not hit me right at once, but several months later.

[geminigirl]

UPDATE:

 

I have been noticing that mornings, my head is much clearer and I feel more happy and alive. In the evenings, I get a lot worse, especially when it's near the time to take my meds. Like yesterday I needed to get the meds and I went manic and started screaming and wanting to kill people. I was self aware at the time, I didn't do anything but I got into a bunch of verbal fights with people and even pointed a finger gun at someone. I also wanted to fight a security guard and I a, 5"0 and 120 pounds.

 

I felt so manic last night, it was kind of horrible, I had inner agitation and also screamed at the hospital staff like a maniac. I then ran away from the hospital thinking they would restrain me and shoot me. I started laughing hysterically too, then crying.

 

This is insane.

 

Also, just wondering if anybody can give me advice on when I can taper again? I updosed to 15.30 mg from 14.70 mg 5 days ago. I felt I had to because it was a lot worse before, like including severe anxiety, heart palpitations, difficulty breathing, going off on a high, what felt like a stroke or blackout, and complete and total memory loss, as well as feeling like I am on speed.

 

I feel calmer now because I know it was withdrawal all along and that symptoms never last more than a few hours at once. They always morph into new symptoms too, so ya. But still scary as I was going through it. I thought I would be in that state forever.

 

Any suggestions/thoughts? Or other people with similar experiences?

 

Thanks

[Shep]

The 10% tapering speed listed here and other places such as the Icarus Project is what I consider "best practice" as an over all guide. But then it can be tweaked on an individual basis. 

 

It's based on the concept of "harm reduction" - Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Tapering speed is subjective and should be individually tailored as you progress.

 

My take on taper speed is this:

 

• It depends on how sick you got (physically and mentally) prior to your taper - if your CNS is already compromised, going slow will help minimize symptoms
• Prior recreational and prescription drug exposure as well as alcohol use (see Limbic Kindling -- Hardwiring the brain for hypersensitivity for more information)
• How much time and energy you put into developing your non-drug coping skills to deal not only with withdrawal symptoms, but whatever lead you to be prescribed the drugs in the first place
• How well you are able to handle any collateral damage (loss of relationship, job, home, savings, etc.)

 

Some of this we have control over, and some we don't. I place an emphasis on non-drug ways of coping in my own case because I came off 6 drugs either rapid taper or cold turkey after 30 years, and I refuse to go back. 

 

So it's an individualized process because it's an individualized journey. Anything you have control over regarding the above four factors will help you navigate through your journey. And if you don't have control over it - or if you refuse to take control - then it's best to stick to a slower taper. 

 

[andy]

Best thing to do is listen to your body,when I got to the lower doses I really had to slow down and hold my doses for much longer

Rushing just to get off the drug will only be painful,I always stabilised and got my head together ready for the next push

[scallywag]

geminigirl, I re-established a steady dose of my drug, Cymbalta, 3 weeks ago and will likely do my first 10% cut on Friday. I find myself asking the question when can I cut, how much can I cut ALL THE TIME.  One time in the last few days I had a moment of clarity, "A more helpful question to ask myself is 'How broad and deep a foundation do I want before risking withdrawal symptoms again?' " 

 

Now that you're feeling better some of the time, I hope you'll consider holding at your current level for a while until you know whether that evening anger/agitation settles down or how you can prepare yourself for it and limit its effect on your life.

 

How long has it taken for symptoms to dissipate after your previous dose changes?

[geminigirl]

*topic moved from symptoms forum

 

Hi,

 

I was just wondering if you guys think you could actually die from drug withdrawal?

 

This thought scares me a bit as during withdrawal I often feel like I am dying.

 

For instance, right now my heart is beating super fast for no reason. Like I will have a heart attack.

 

But can that actually ever happen from withdrawal? Or any other symptoms of withdrawal? I know SI and violent thoughts come up, but I mean more death from the physical symptoms of withdrawal.

 

 

 

I want to know so I don't feel as scared in this process.

Edited May 21, 2016 by Petunia
added note

[LexFree]

Hi Geminigirl,

 

I have searched many, many sites on AD withdrawals and have not come across any, not even one, where someone has died from withdrawal.  The withdrawals some experience may make one feel like he/she is dying, but I don't think it does.  At least I am going to be positive and believe we will all make it through.

 

Try to stay positive as you can.  It will help to get through this process.  I wish you all the best to healing completely.  

 

LexFree 

[SquirrellyGirl]

H Geminigirl, 

 

You may want to review Why taper?, particularly the graph in the paper that shows the occupancy curve for Cit.   At 15 mg, you are starting to dip under 80% occupancy, so though you are doing a lovely, slow 5% taper, you are clearly very sensitive to cuts and the further you cut into the 80% the more extreme things will get if you go too fast!

 

So, keep notes on paper.  How many days after the cut did you start to really feel withdrawal?  What has your pattern been for symptoms rising and subsiding after a cut?  You'll want to see if it is just a matter of the severity getting more intense but the pattern stays the same..If the symptoms stick around for a few days and then subside, then maybe you will be able to ride it out with the 5%.  Or, it may be time to split that up, perhaps 2.5% every two weeks, and see if that helps.  If not, it may be time to do less than 5% per month.  

 

There's a whole lot of healing to be done between 80% and 0 occupancy!  Speeding the taper up is not advised!

 

SG

[Altostrata]

If you get withdrawal symptoms, that's your body telling you to stop tapering and give it a rest. It needs more time to adapt.

 

No, it does not mean "taper faster."

[geminigirl]

Okay, thanks so much guys.

 

By the way I noticed today that my head has been much clearer than for the past 6 years. That horrible catatonic state I was in, the dissociated depersonalized state has been lifted.

 

This is a relief.

 

I feel more like a person now, rather than a codependent child like mush in a dream. I didn't realize how horrible that was until now I see more clearly and see reality as it is.

 

Thanks.

 

Yana

[Shep]

Okay, thanks so much guys.

 

By the way I noticed today that my head has been much clearer than for the past 6 years. That horrible catatonic state I was in, the dissociated depersonalized state has been lifted.

 

This is a relief.

 

I feel more like a person now, rather than a codependent child like mush in a dream. I didn't realize how horrible that was until now I see more clearly and see reality as it is.

 

Thanks.

 

Yana

 

 

This is really good news, Yana.  Depersonalization is a very difficult symptom - one of my worst. Best to keep your taper slow so this window continues for you.

[geminigirl]

Dear Scallywag,

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

My reading and comprehension skills have been a bit messed up lately, but ya I wanted to say that for me, I don't really feel each drop, it kind of just caught up with me in a big accumulation of symptoms. I believe it was on the 6th of May that I experienced horrific withdrawal symptoms, like really mind boggling withdrawal symptoms. Including feeling like im on speed, complete memory loss, horrific shaking and doom feelings, really bad dhiarrea, headaches, and what felt like a stroke in my head, and loss of body.

 

I am doing better. I have somewhat stabilized but I still experience some mania and inner agitation. I also feel like I have the paxil flu, and feel very blah or not alive.

 

Anyways, I don't think I tapered too fast, I only tapered 5% at a time, but I think the problem or me is that I was using water for my liquid titration that was too hot, and that's why I messed up. I will wait a few more months until I start tapering again. I want to be as stable as possible before doing down further.

 

I do notice that going down further, I feel more clear headed and alive. I had such a window a few days ago and it was totally totally beautiful and awesome. Unfortunately that window went away.

 

Some other symtpoms I have noticed is that I have a bit of a hard time taking care of myself, like showering and cleaning myself. Like I have to force myself to do it. I have also lost the spotaneousness and zest and spunk for life. I have also been interested in strange things like certain sounds and pictures, like I have autism or something, like obsessions.

 

I am hoping with time it will all pass once I stabilize and continue to taper.

[geminigirl]

Yes Shep.

 

That is a good idea.

[geminigirl]

Hi Guys,

 

Im feeling really weird again.

 

I cant explain the symptom but I just feel super weird.

 

Anyone there?

[Dan998]

Hi Geminigirl.

 

I just had a quick read through your thread, surprised I hadn't seen you on here before as I try to keep up with fellow citalopram (celexa) taperers.

 

I've never thought of it before, but yes, withdrawal from citalopram can be like being on speed. A really dirty speed, with all of the nastiness and none of the niceness usually associated with recreational drugs. Geez, if you bought withdrawal speed from a dealer you'd want your money back.

 

Your escapade at the hospital made me laugh. Although on a serious note, you really don't want to be doing that sort of thing around doctors. If they think you are a danger to yourself or to others, they could easily hold you against your will and pump you full of all sorts of drugs. 

 

Have you tried taking your dose at a different time of day? I was having problems with mood swings, irritability and agitation. I split my dose and took half in the morning and half in the evening. It really helped even me out. So, might be something worth considering.

 

I make my own liquid too. The stuff that sticks to the side of the bottle is the filler and bulking agent, the active ingredient dissolves in the water. I find that it takes about 10 minutes for a tablet to fully dissolve. I agree with Alto and wouldn't use hot water as this could damage the citalopram and mean you are inadvertently taking a lower dose than you thought.

 

As for the tapering, I would leave it at least a month. It could be that 15mg is a sticky dose for you or it could be that your cuts have accumulated and caught up with you. Either way, a good long hold should sort you out and you'll eventually be able to push on again. Holding should also help get your sleep back to normal. I had trouble at 5mg, It was really difficult to get through, but I held for an extra month and things are good again now.

 

Hang in there GG. I've been where you are now. It does get better 

 

 

 

[geminigirl]

Hi Dan998,

 

Thank you so much for your words.

 

These past few weeks have been HELL! Like absolute hell on earth.

 

I have been going completely crazy, like under the influence of withdrawal and yet still somehow aware it was all happening and not being able to get myself back. It was like my brain had been hijacked.

 

I am feeling a bit better now, more level and clear headed. I honestly had no idea it was the drug playing tricks on me this whole time. It could have been doing this to me for 6 years and I had barely noticed. I am not sure, its so confusing and I don't know the truth anymore. I don't know what is me and what is the drug.

 

I will try to do what you said about splitting the dose. That may be a great idea actually.

 

Thanks,

 

Yana

[geminigirl]

Hi Dan,

 

Could you also tell me when I shake the bottle with the dissolved celexa, how many seconds do I have to wait until I can suck out the desired amount via the syringe? I try to do it as fast as I can but am worried it's not fast enough?

 

I'm probably fine, it's just I have been paranoid because withdrawal really scared the crap out of me.

[Dan998]

Glad you're feeling better. Sounds like the updose is kicking in.

 

You're quite right, our brains have been hijacked by the drugs and we knew nothing about it. I have hardly any memory of the last 10 years, it's just one big blur. The good news is that as the dose has got lower I've started to remember what I was like before, who the real me is, it's slowly coming back. Hopefully it will for you too.

 

Medication spellbinding has four basic effects. 

 

First, people taking psychiatric drugs rarely realize how much the drugs are impairing them mentally or emotionally. They often do not recognize that they’ve become irrational, depressed, angry, or even euphoric since beginning the medication. 

 

Second, if they do realize that they are having painful emotional feelings, medication spellbinding causes them to blame their feelings on something other than the drug. They may get angry at their husbands, wives or children, and become abusive. Or they might blame themselves and become suicidal. Often they confuse the harmful drug effect with their emotional problems. 

 

Third, medication spellbinding makes some people feel that they are doing better than ever when in reality they are doing much worse than ever. In one case, a man who was high on a combination of an antidepressant and a tranquilizer happily went on a daylight robbery spree in his hometown wearing no disguise. Another happily embezzled money while documenting it all in the company computer files. Both men thought they were on top of the world.

 

Fourth, some people become so medication spellbound that they lose control of themselves and perpetrate horrendously destructive actions.

 

Peter Breggin - http://breggin.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=243

 

[Dan998]

It's totally understandable that you are terrified by withdrawal. If you draw up the liquid as fast as you can, that will be fast enough. Once the tablet has dissolved the active ingredient will be pretty evenly spread out in the liquid. The bits you see floating around don't really do anything.

[geminigirl]

When I have "windows" is that the real me?

[geminigirl]

Dan, is there any way I can chat with you over the phone to talk about this whole thing?

[geminigirl]

Hi Guys,

 

Just popping in to say Hi and to give an update.

 

I am doing slightly better currently. My brain fog isn't as bad and I don't have the horrible mania.

 

I just took my dose of celexa for the day.

 

I am going to take Dan's advice and try taking the celexa twice a day rather than once, and just split the dose. I think that is actually a really great idea because it sucks when I am so up and down.

 

I also noticed that the reason I had withdrawal so bad recently is probably because I haven't been taking my meds the same time each day.

 

I am going to try doing that from now on. Twice a day, same time each day. I think that will really help me stabilize.

 

I just did not realize AT ALL how much these drugs have changed my whole system and body and how careful and precise and stable everything has to do. Alto you are right.

 

I have always been the type to just wing things and take things as they go, but I realize with this tapering thing, I have to treat it all like a fragile new born baby, feeding it at the same regular hours each and day and even sleeping at the same times each day, or even just trying to sleep.

 

Anyways, that's all I wanted to say for now.

 

I am also soooo tired because I haven't properly slept for like 4/5 days. I think I will take a nap in a bit.

 

And finally, I am still alive.

 

I am glad. I went through hell recently.

[Flowers]

Hi Geminigirl

 

Glad that you have got some things sorted that will help you get back on track.

 

At least you are feeling better - and you made it through the tough times of late!

 

Hope you get some good sleep and start to feel even better over the next few days.