Geminigirl: Hope for Healing

[geminigirl]

Hi Guys,

 

Could you please give me some advice on what dose to take?

 

I have not taken the drugs the whole day because 15.5 mg is way too activating for me. It is like being shot with a huge load of cocaine. I get intense intolerable akathesia and thoughts of wanting to kill people and myself.

 

Can I start taking a smaller dose? I know I may get withdrawal, but like I just cant take the 15.5 mg anymore.

 

I am not sure why when on 20 mg I was just extremely sedated and tired all the time, like catatonic, but then now I just feel when I take my dose I am crazy hyper and unable to control myself. I have brusies on myself already from hitting myself because I didn't know what to do with the akathesia.

 

Please let me know what to do.

 

Thanks

[AliG]

Hi Yana. I'm sorry that you're struggling however I'm a little confused as to your dose. You were on 14 mg on the 7th , yet today 8th you are on 15 .5 mg. Is that a mistake or did you updose ?

I will get a consensus of opinion once we have the facts straight.

Ali

[geminigirl]

Hi Ali,

 

Ya I started 14 mg about two days ago.

 

I have been on 14 mg for two days. I went down from 15.5 mg. I was on 15.5 mg for two months I believe, maybe three.

 

Now when I take 15.5 mg or 14 mg, it is much too activating and I have severe akathesia, unable to think, racing thoughts, paranoia, etc.

 

I haven't taken my meds today and feel significantly better.

 

Obviously though I know I can't stop taking the meds completely, so I am not sure what dose I should take now.

 

Someone recommended i know to another lady to take a smaller dose if a higher dose is too much.

 

My main concern is if I take a lower dose, I will get the withdrawals, but I am assuming I will get them anyways, so might as well just deal with them now vs. later?

 

When I crashed last month after tapering from 20 mg to 15.5 mg over the course of 6 months, the withdrawals lasted between 2 weeks to a month.

 

I am not more stable but cannot take the meds at such a high dose. I am afraid I will hurt myself or others while in the akathesia state.

 

I am going to see the doctor tomorrow to help me taper, but I wanted your guys's advice too.

[AliG]

Yana.  If you have missed your am dose of 7 mg, then I would make sure that you at least have your evening dose. Even though you're struggling with the activation , it won't go well if you C/T . Maybe a faster taper will be suggested in light of the akathisia and hyper symptoms etc.  but for now just don't make any radical changes, and please check in here after you see your doctor. I'm not sure what he can do as most don't understand withdrawal however let us know how your symptoms are as well as how your appt. goes. 

Ali 

[LexAnger]

Yours sounds a lot like mine. Originally only need to deal with WD, after one accident dose increase, my body started having resistance to lexapro so I had to speed up tapering. The symptoms from the resistance are also similar to yours ( severe sedation, brain dead, coma like, paralyzed left side etc.) Each drop eased those symptoms while brought up WD symptoms. So I have been dancing between the two evils for the past 4 months taperred down from 3.2 mg to 2.4 mg. I also changed my dosing schedule by splitting doses which also helped with the immediate dosing reaction ( I had to take the liquid over 12-13 hours with one drop every 30 minutes as bigger amount would cause too strong reaction in just couple minutes).

 

I agree with Ali, cold turkey is way too risky. You can make up today's dose by taking it asap before a well thought plan.

[MapleleafGirl]

i agree too...do not CT....and i answered you in the convo about the tapering...has to be done slow...

[geminigirl]

Hi Guys,

 

Okay thanks.

 

I just want to let mapleleafgirl know though that I cannot, just cannot take the 14 mg right now and then do a slow taper.

 

I am honestly worried I will kill myself or someone before I get to a smaller dose. Like if i am on 14 mg all month.

 

Literally my body feels like it gets shot with an overdose of cocaine and my body tells me I have to kill myself or others. I cant stress the seriousness of this.

 

I also have bruises on my body because I was hitting myself due ot the akathesia. I had thoughts of killing self and others too like the whole day, I also started hallucianting and getting severely paranoid.

 

Is there any way I can take 5 mg today instead of 7?

[geminigirl]

Lexanger, you said that your symptoms of resistance were feeling like you were brain dead, coma like, severe sedation, my symptoms of resistance are not really that, they are severe akathesia. That is the symptom I am most worried about.

 

Whenever I take 14 mg now it's like all I can think about it chopping people's heads off or my own.

[geminigirl]

When I was taking 20 mg, I felt like I was in a coma and was severely tired all the time and out of it.

 

Now it seems when I take 14 mg, I get the opposite effect, I am like a raging lunatic wanting to kill people.

[geminigirl]

Lexanger, I just realized what you mentioned about splitting up the doses and taking them every 30 minutes.

 

I am assuming if I need to take 14 mg every day for a month, what I can do is take 1 mg every hour for 14 hours. Is that correct?

[Altostrata]

geminigirl, I really can't say what's going on.

 

I would not go off cold turkey. Can you try 5mg in the morning and 5mg in the evening?

[geminigirl]

Hi Alto,

 

What I am doing is taking 2 mg 5 times a day, so I will be taking 10 mg for the whole day.

 

If I take 5 mg twice a day I am afraid such a big dose will still be too activating.

 

Currently after taking my first 2 mg dose, I feel somewhat excited/wanting to do things fast, but there is no severe akathesia or homicidal or suicidal thoughts or wanting to harm others. I just feel more anxiety if anything.

 

I also feel I have some kind of autism and inability to understand consequences because of these drugs. I feel like i am a child again, but with all the crazy side effects these drugs cause, the one i am particularily scared about is akathesia, because the inner agitation, combined with the inability to think like a normal, adult person, who understands that killing people means heartbreak, pain, etc, is quite dangerous.

 

Is it normal to feel like the adult, thinking and rational part of my brain is gone? I don't know when it left me, but i can see it clearly now. It just is not really there, and I don't have full range of normal human emotions.

[LexAnger]

I'm very sorry geminigirl for the horrible situation!

I'm glad you felt a bit better with a smaller dose. im guessing the drug reaction can take different forms. Honestly I don't know my gradual dosing is a good thing overall. I sometimes worry if it can harm my system even more with constant trigger each day. I choose the way any way for three reasons, one is that I can't live with the reaction as I feel I was killed each topi me I dose, and the other is I am too scared to change drugs ( thought many times to bridge to Prozac), and yet the last one is I know I can't simply stop cold turkey.

 

It somehow allowed me to stay alive until now, but honestly everyday is still a hell. I somehow accepted it as what I have to go through regardless as there is no other options left. So I just keep pushing through each day while dancing between symptoms by cutting down dose.

 

I hope the new dosing schedule works for you somewhat, but this change alone can also trigger some additional adjustment to your system and symptoms from that can be confusing too.

 

You are at a relative high dose still, tapering fast link alto suggested might be relatively easier based on most people's experience cutting down big and quick at higher doses.

 

Regardless, I feel when we stuck in this hard place, it will be hard not to have bad symptoms either way, only try to balance the two sides to a more bearable level for both.

 

Hugs,

Lex

[Hopefull]

Hi Geminigirl,

 

So sorry to hear you going through so much pain.

I'm not an expert in tappering, but based on my own experience, when I updosed , I would hold that dose for good 4-5 months before tappering again.

If you have recently updosed, hold that dose for a while.

You will stabilize eventually.

It takes me a while to stabilize. I have learned to listen to my body.

No one enjoys being in this predicament, but we have to deal with it the best we can.

Join an art therapy class. I know you have issues attaching to people, but surrounding your self with people might help you overcome lonliness.

Do Yoga or something and get out of the house. Keep your self occupied.

Try not to dwell on the negative thoughts.

Keeping your self occupied is the key.

What are your intrests/hobbies?

Set out small goals for your self.

Eg. Walk every morning. I walked and walked at my worst.

I did exercise classes.

Sometimes supplements can help, but also can emphasize wds symptoms.

Fish oil and magnesium is recommended on this site, but some people are also sensitive to fish oil and magnesium.

Maybe look into myo-inositol powder.

I tried it myself. It calmed my anxiety, but I didn't tolerate it well.

I would love to hear that you are feeling better.

Take care, best wishes, Hopefull.

[Altostrata]

GG, how do you feel after the second, third, fourth, and fifth doses?

 

What times of day do you take them?

 

What is your daily symptom pattern? You'll need to keep notes on paper, or we can't help.

[geminigirl]

Hi Alto,

 

I feel much better after taking 2 mg 5 times a day rather than 7 mg twice a day.

 

I got severe akathesia on 7 mg twice a day.

 

Right now I dont have any symptoms really. I feel actually more clear in my mind after taking the 2 mg 5 times a day. This is the second day I am doing this.

 

I am thinking that what will happen to me is that in several months my body will notice the changes and it will crash and I will feel really bad for two weeks to a month, and then my brain will adjust with a smaller amount of meds, and then I will continue the taper once I stabilize on a smaller dose of the meds.

 

This is what happened when I tapered from 20 mg to 15.5 mg. I felt okay, no withdrawal at all for 6 months, and then I crashed and it was really bad for two weeks to a month. Then I stabilized, and my brain felt different, like more clear with a smaller amount of the drug.

 

For some reason for me I think it takes several months for my brain to notice that it has a smaller dose of the drug, then it crashes, I guess adjusts itself accordingly.

 

I honestly feel much better though now that I am taking 2 mg 5 times a day, meaning I dont have akathesia. I also notice I have to take the doses throughout the day and my last dose should be before 8, otherwise if I take a dose after 8 pm, I am too wired and cant sleep and have nightmares.

[geminigirl]

Hey guys,

 

Do I have to put the meds in the fridge when I prepare them for the day? I make a celexa solution myself.

[LexAnger]

So glad you are getting some relief

[geminigirl]

Yes,

 

Thank you Lexanger....

 

I am actually debating whether I should stick to 14 mg because 14 mg to 10 mg is a huge drop.

 

I will see how I feel today on 14 mg, if I get severe akathesia again, I will take 10 tomorrow.

[geminigirl]

How are you doing Lexanger?

 

I hope your feeling much better.....

 

Do you think I can go from 14 mg to 10 mg or is that just too huge of a drop?

[LexAnger]

I'm not good enough to tell if dropping to 10 is too much for the giving situation. If I read your correctly you have been taking 10 in the past 2 days and so far you feel ok. You said if you take any after 8pm is not good. Do you mean more dose on top of the 10 after 8 or just the timing of the last dose out of 10mg?

 

The immediate relief from lower and spread dose confirmed the drug reaction effect. So I would guess the direction your are going is right, only need to adjust along the way by trial and error to find the least harm strategy.

 

For me, it's always hardest to take those drops early of the day, so my dose is not evenly spread. I take 0.4mg in morning, 0.8mg in afternoon, and 1.2 in evening. Honestly I don't know the risk I'm taking by doing this, but it is the only way I can get through each day without CT.a real approach of listing to my body

 

My cut is still tiny, 0.03 MG each week to minimize the wd effect while trigger the brain to be OK for the drug reaction for a few days, then had to cut again when the drug reaction returns.

 

It takes 4 days after each cut for my wd show up, exactly the time alto predicted. You may want to see how you feel after day 4 then adjust for future tapering rate.

[LexAnger]

Oh just to clarify, I am take it every 30 min although each drop gets bigger ad the day goes

[LexAnger]

Sorry for the typo in the previous post. Posting using cell phone with a wrecked brain

 

Thanks for asking about me! I'm still pushing through each day, not great but how I think I have to go through to get my life back.

 

My wd symptoms are severe pins and needles and other types of pain everywhere which in very torturous, while the drug reaction makes me like no exist, very disabling but not as torturous as the pains. They alternate in days and hours, real fun.

[geminigirl]

Hi Lexanger,

 

Sorry you are going through that.

 

I am sending you hugs....If I was there I honestly would give you a hug

 

I will try to do what you said....Take 10 mg for 4 days and see how I feel. Today is day 2 on the 10 mg.

 

Regarding the 8 pm thing, I was just saying that I can't take my last dose of 2 mg (which would add up to 10 mg for the day) anytime after 8 pm, as then I can't sleep.

 

Just wondering too, are you also a highly sensitive person like me? Maybe that is why we are more sensitive to these meds...

[LexAnger]

Thanks for the hugs GG! We all need lots of those:)

And hugs back to you!

 

Thanks for confirming your current dose. So you are at 10 mg now. I have you in my prayer for the drop! It is very big giving how powerful these drugs are.

 

From what I experienced and read here about others, many of us got bad drug reaction from either reinstating or increasing dose of Celexa or lexapro, for reasons we don't know. That is why I have been cutting so tiny to be prepared for the very needed dose increase so it will be tiny and minimal bad reaction.

 

Yes I guess in general I'm a sensitive type, but I was not that sensitive in my early tapering. I believe my super sensitivity is triggered by multiple dose up and down over many years, especially from couple time dose incraese. Tons of new and bizarre symptoms would flare up and never leave each time I increase dose even for the first couple weeks I would feel better. So my rule of thu,b now is never increase dose again.

 

These drugs can affect us in such a different manner. It always makes me more sedated and sleep a lot while for you it seems just the opposite. Often makes me speechless.

 

This is what I need to remind myself of all the time:

be very careful about ANY change and always approach with tiny steps. Try not to make more than one change at the same time so we know which is causing what.

 

I hope you continue feeling better!

 

Lex

[geminigirl]

Hi Lex,

 

Thank you for your support.

 

I just wanted to say that I am probably making a mistake taking the 10 mg instead of 14.

 

I think what I should do is just take 7 2 mg tablets in a day.

 

I am just so worried to go back up to 14 because I feel much better on 10. I am worried I will get worrific withdrawals later down the line. Usually it takes me several months to feel an effect of any change.

 

I still dunno what to do....

 

It seems like the 10 mg is going well for me but that's just for NOW.

 

Should I go up to 14 mg? I'm really afraid of the akatheisa.

[LexAnger]

Hi GG,

 

I totally understand your concern. It's a hard call unfortunately giving the unknown of all factors and complicated situation etc. usually two days updose wouldn't be too risky to correct by going back, but no one really knows.

 

Maybe just go with your intuition and gut feeling then try to just think positively with the decision?

 

It will be a long road ahead and certain bumps are hard to avoid. I hope you maintain a daily journal so you can read back.

 

How are you feeling today?

[geminigirl]

Thanks lexanger.

 

I feel good today.

 

I have a symptom pattern that I have noticed. I find I am now more normal at this dose and more clear minded than I have been for a long long time. However, during certain times of the day I still feel like the drug makes me kind of retarded, and also out of it. But then I come back to my more real self.

 

It's hard to explain this.

 

I still don't know if I should go back to 14 mg. I am thinking it is probably the safest option. I am thinking of trying 3 mg doses 4 times a day and 1 2 mg dose once a day, totalling 14 mg. That can maybe reduce the akathesia but I have already been on 10 mg for like 4 days now.

[geminigirl]

If alto could tell me what to do that would be awsome

[geminigirl]

I am thinking of just taking 12 mg from now on.

 

Let me know what people think.

 

Thanks

[Altostrata]

Keep your homemade liquid in the refrigerator.

 

Stop switching dosages. Choose one and stick with it.

 

Since you seem to feel better on less, if I were you, I would stay with 10mg per day.

 

It all depends on how you do. You have to give a dosage change 4-7 days to see how it's working and keep notes of your symptom pattern. You keep on switching much more often. This makes it impossible to tell which way to go.

[geminigirl]

Alright,

 

I will stick with 10 mg.

 

I will let you know how I do in a few days.

 

Ive been on it for 4 days so far, maybe 5.

[Altostrata]

Please keep notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages.

[geminigirl]

Okay will do.

 

Thanks Alto.

 

Yana

[geminigirl]

Today was an okay day...

 

I still had brain fog and then in the evening my nervous system was more sensitive, hands felt much colder. It felt like I smoked some weed, like everything is more pronounced and vivid.

 

I am living currently in a very unstable place but they do give me food and shelter and they said they will help me if anything happens, Its my parents house and they fight often, they are abusive. Its hard living here and dealing with withdrawal and getting off the drugs but I dont really know where else to go.

 

I dislike my parents very much and if it wasnt for my messed up brain currently I would run away.

 

I still took the 10 mg today. Gonna try and stay at 10 mg and see how I feel.

[geminigirl]

Cuz of these drugs, I feel trapped in life.

 

I have memory issues and just a dulling of emotions. I had to move in with my parents who I partially hate and who abused me and neglected me badly as a child. I hate being here. I hate them.

 

I got bad nightmares today.

 

I want to kill people, either the makers of this drug or my parents. I often loathe society and what it does to people. America is going downhill. Punishing others who are having angry thoughts helps nobody. I don't like society and what it does to people. I hate cops and other authority figures.

 

These drugs make it difficult for me to feel or express any feelings. I don't even know what I feel anymore. I need to be in therapy still but its not working because the drugs make me feel nothing and therefore I cant change much,

 

I am very very very angry today.

 

I ******* hate these drugs.

 

I am so so so so so mad.

 

I don't want to be nice anymore.

 

One day I will have payback by living the most happy ******* life anybody has ever known and all those makers of these drugs and my parents can kiss my ass so much.

 

Everyone keeps saying no no no no no.

 

I want to hear a yes.

 

I want to see happy people with real genuine smiles.

 

I am tired of people that I see.