Jump to content
SurvivingAntidepressants.org is temporarily closed to new registrations until 1 April ×

Tapering Beta Blockers or Alpha Blockers


Emphyrio

Recommended Posts

See also:  tips-for-tapering-off-propranolol

 

Hello,

 

For the past 3-4 weeks I've been taking 160mg of propranolol for agitation/restlessness/akathisia (whatever it is) - 80mg slow release every morning and night. It's really just a short-term means of managing some (mainly physical) symptoms while I stabilise. I'm tolerating it well so far, though I don't particularly want to take it long-term.

 

My question therefore is - how should one taper off beta blockers? I know that they should be tapered because of the risk of rebound palpitations, hypertension or tremor, but as far as I'm aware nobody has ever experienced long-term/protracted withdrawals from beta blockers, unlike benzos, antidepressants or antipsychotics.

 

What is a good tapering schedule?

 

Edited by Altostrata
updated propranolol tapering link

Slowly getting better from multiple drug changes. Holding at 20mg fluoxetine, 150mg pregabalin, 3.75mg mirtazapine until I work through some personal issues.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because beta blockers have a direct effect on the heart and the upregulation of beta adrenergic receptors, you should never taper them without careful planning with your doctor. You could end up with serious heart rhythm issues and runaway hypertension. Best to get professional advice on this one.

Short term low dose Klonopin use back in 2004
Acute, protracted withdrawal after discontinuing
Began Lexapro in 2005 to ease Benzo withdrawal
Took 2 years to stabilize
Rapid taper from Lexapro in July/August 2012
Return of anxiety, insomnia and cardiac issues
Failed reinstatement early August 2012
Acute withdrawal for 9 months; intermittent symptoms for another 6

Relief on February 9, 2014 after addition of Taurine

Almost complete remission of symptoms w/addition of 12.5mg Atenolol daily

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I have friend who is on Prazosin to control blood pressure and considering reducing the dose with doctor's permission soon. Since it is an alpha blocker wondering if a liquid micro taper would be better instead of a faster taper. Not sure what kind of taper would be suitable for this drug though. Would be grateful for any advice/tips for tapering this drug, thanks.

<p>Quit Olanzapine 2.5 mg cold turkey. (by the way I do not recommend c/t, but an appropriate safe taper instead)

April 2013: 18 months drug free yet suffering protracted withdrawal.

On no medications except: 360mg Omega 3 cod liver oil daily and epsom salt spray for magnesium.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

Please see above.

 

Beta blockers and alpha blockers also require slow tapering, 10% reductions at a time based on the last dosage (the amount of the reduction keeps getting smaller). Taper should be slow enough not to trigger blood pressure rebound increases.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alto,

 

Sorry wasn’t aware that that there was a thread on alpha blockers.

 

And if you’re really sensitive to tapering changes, based on symptoms, I suppose a micro taper would be more suitable to be on the safe side.

 

Thank you so much.

<p>Quit Olanzapine 2.5 mg cold turkey. (by the way I do not recommend c/t, but an appropriate safe taper instead)

April 2013: 18 months drug free yet suffering protracted withdrawal.

On no medications except: 360mg Omega 3 cod liver oil daily and epsom salt spray for magnesium.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the replies. Was just wondering though whether there have been any documented cases of protracted withdrawal from beta blockers or other non-psychiatric medications?

Slowly getting better from multiple drug changes. Holding at 20mg fluoxetine, 150mg pregabalin, 3.75mg mirtazapine until I work through some personal issues.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I took it for about two months, took six months to taper, and at least two months, maybe more, for my heart "thudding" to stop completely. BUT I think food allergies were bothering me, and I was diagnosed with copper overload by orthomolecular docs, which reportedly causes "racing heartbeat. ". Since all that, I had a stress test that felt normal to me and the EKG machine. Taurine was a big help in the process, there is a thread on it

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

I combined threads into this topic.

 

It's very important to taper off drugs that affect heart rhythm or blood pressure. Quitting suddenly can make you very sick.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

 

 

It's very important to taper off drugs that affect heart rhythm or blood pressure. Quitting suddenly can make you very sick.

 

What is the priority of taper  importance when a cocktail contains a beta blocker ?

 

ie where does a beta blocker sit in the tapering pecking order?

 

eg popranolol (inderal)

 

After or before, the ad?  the benzo? the antipsychotic? the anticonvulsant ?

At the end of the que? At the beginning?

 

Are beta blockers actually considered psych drugs? Or pushed off label as such since it appears they were first developed for the treatment of certain heart conditions and hypertension.

 
Bit confused on this one.

 

.

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

Psychiatrists and other doctors often prescribe beta blockers as anxiety drugs.

 

They are "brakes" and should be tapered when more activating drugs are removed. If you're off an antidepressant, you need to assess how you're feeling to decide whether to go off the beta blocker or antipsychotic.

 

If the beta blocker was prescribed to counter "anxiety" from the antidepressant, you don't need the beta blocker any more. If the antipsychotic was prescribed for sleep, you may wish to taper it after the beta blocker. In my opinion, lamotrigine and other anticonvulsants should be tapered last as they tend to dampen hyper-reactivity from withdrawal of any type of drug.

 

However, the person's current state, symptoms, and reactions determine what to do next. There's no simple cookbook to follow.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I seem to have a paradoxical reaction to the Clonidine I have been taking over the past 2 1/2 years prescribed initially for akathisia.  I had planned on removing it once I was off the Doxepin that I'm taking, but last November the supplier I was using (Qualitest) ran out of Clonidine at the dosage I am taking (0.1mg morning and evening) and my pharmacy gave me another brand of generic.   My husband and I tried to slowly taper over from the original brand to the new brand but within a couple of weeks, my B/P went way up, fluctuating from a morning reading of about 140/95 or so to 175/110 in the evening.  We increased the new brand but after taking it, my B/P rose even higher.  

After talking to a couple of ladies who had that happen to them, having the B/P rise after taking a beta blocker (I know that Clonidine is a type of alpha blocker) I decided that I was mostly likely having a paradoxical reaction to that brand.  I called Qualitest and was told that they had restocked Clonidine 0.1mg so I contacted my pharmacy and they reordered for me.  But even after returning to the original brand at the original dose, my B/P was VERY high after taking it too.  So we took a 20% cut in the morning dose and my B/P was much lower after taking it.

We have slowly been reducing by grains (my husband has a scale and is weighing each tablet) both the morning and the evening pills,  holding when I'm symptomatic from the mess I was already in!  I took my B/P randomly over the past few weeks and it seemed to be moving down, especially in the morning from the reduced tab.  I had a B/P of 145/92 in the doctor's office last Thursday but then yesterday I felt quite ill and so last night after taking the Clonidine, my B/P was back to 175/102.  It has been 10 days since my last tiny cut.

I am waking up in the middle of the night again after having returned to normal sleep from the cuts and have a headache and nausea and agitation.  We're planning on cutting 3 grains from tonight's dose.  This is a hard call and we're just having to assume that I am paradoxical but I never had high B/P before being given the Clonidine and in fact, my B/P was good the whole time I've been on it until the problem with the brands and the attempt to switch over.   But I am wanting to be free of the Clonidine if I am so sensitive to a brand change as I'm quite certain this will come up again. 

Since I am reacting to dosing, what rate should I reduce at?  This is all quite worrisome to say the least.

 

1971-81  Valium 5mg c/t PAWS     1992- through now Zoloft 25mg    2003-05 Valium 12mg Slow Taper Off

2013 Afrin Exposure to CNS    2013 O/D Val 230mg    2013 Doxepin 50mg Clonidine 2mg Zoloft 25mg

3/15/16  Doxepin 49mg Micro Tapering  Zoloft 24.3mg Holding taper

3/15/16 Clonidine mg 0.1 1/2 -    Decreasing incrementally.  DISCONTINUED

10/9/16  Doxepin 48.9  Zoloft 24.3  Clonidine  01.10  Continuing micro taper on Doxepin.

11/16/16 Doxepin 48mg  Zoloft 24.3mg  Clonidine 1.30mg

5/4/17  Doxepin 45mg  Zoloft 24mg  Clonidine 1.20mg   Micro taper of Doxepin  , Clonidine

01/13/19  Doxepin 45mg   Zoloft 21mg   Will start Micro taper of Doxepin 2/19

12/21/21  Doxepin 20 mg ?  Reducing using water micro taper--Pulling 24ml from 75ml

12/2121   Zoloft .060 grams by weight--HOLDING (info from post added by CC: On 12/21/21 my dosage was .060grams by weight or 20mg. )

26 Apr 2022 - Zoloft at -0-

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I just read something on RXList that really showed me what's going on.  Apparently TCA's (Which Doxepin is) and Clonidine should NEVER be given together as the combo can cause high blood pressure readings:  "Dangerous elevations in blood pressure may occur if TCA are combined with clonidine (Catapres, Catapres-TTS)."  Swell.  I think that the upset with the different brands set this off big time so I guess all I can do is a steady and consistent taper of the Clonidine.  I'm wondering tho if I can't taper the Doxepin in micro cuts at the same time?

1971-81  Valium 5mg c/t PAWS     1992- through now Zoloft 25mg    2003-05 Valium 12mg Slow Taper Off

2013 Afrin Exposure to CNS    2013 O/D Val 230mg    2013 Doxepin 50mg Clonidine 2mg Zoloft 25mg

3/15/16  Doxepin 49mg Micro Tapering  Zoloft 24.3mg Holding taper

3/15/16 Clonidine mg 0.1 1/2 -    Decreasing incrementally.  DISCONTINUED

10/9/16  Doxepin 48.9  Zoloft 24.3  Clonidine  01.10  Continuing micro taper on Doxepin.

11/16/16 Doxepin 48mg  Zoloft 24.3mg  Clonidine 1.30mg

5/4/17  Doxepin 45mg  Zoloft 24mg  Clonidine 1.20mg   Micro taper of Doxepin  , Clonidine

01/13/19  Doxepin 45mg   Zoloft 21mg   Will start Micro taper of Doxepin 2/19

12/21/21  Doxepin 20 mg ?  Reducing using water micro taper--Pulling 24ml from 75ml

12/2121   Zoloft .060 grams by weight--HOLDING (info from post added by CC: On 12/21/21 my dosage was .060grams by weight or 20mg. )

26 Apr 2022 - Zoloft at -0-

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

Tapering two drugs at once can be confusing; if you get a bad reaction, which one is causing it? Which do you updose?

 

The Drug Interactions Checker http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.htmlis a fairly good source for identifying symptoms that might be related to drug combinations. Doctors and pharmacists are supposed to use something similar, but often skip that step.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tapering two drugs at once can be confusing; if you get a bad reaction, which one is causing it? Which do you updose?

 

The Drug Interactions Checker http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.htmlis a fairly good source for identifying symptoms that might be related to drug combinations. Doctors and pharmacists are supposed to use something similar, but often skip that step.

 

Yeah, I know.  I guess I'll just stick with tapering the Clonidine as that has less ramifications than the Doxepin.  Both are so toxic .. 

 

My Nurse Practitioner who sees me 2x a year never comments on the combo of drugs I'm taking.  She said something this last time about being given the Clonidine to help with the Doxepin being too activating (she was not the original prescriber) ...  Plus of course, the Zoloft thrown into the mix...  Just is so unbelievable that neither doctors or pharmacists take a look at what's being rx'd together.

1971-81  Valium 5mg c/t PAWS     1992- through now Zoloft 25mg    2003-05 Valium 12mg Slow Taper Off

2013 Afrin Exposure to CNS    2013 O/D Val 230mg    2013 Doxepin 50mg Clonidine 2mg Zoloft 25mg

3/15/16  Doxepin 49mg Micro Tapering  Zoloft 24.3mg Holding taper

3/15/16 Clonidine mg 0.1 1/2 -    Decreasing incrementally.  DISCONTINUED

10/9/16  Doxepin 48.9  Zoloft 24.3  Clonidine  01.10  Continuing micro taper on Doxepin.

11/16/16 Doxepin 48mg  Zoloft 24.3mg  Clonidine 1.30mg

5/4/17  Doxepin 45mg  Zoloft 24mg  Clonidine 1.20mg   Micro taper of Doxepin  , Clonidine

01/13/19  Doxepin 45mg   Zoloft 21mg   Will start Micro taper of Doxepin 2/19

12/21/21  Doxepin 20 mg ?  Reducing using water micro taper--Pulling 24ml from 75ml

12/2121   Zoloft .060 grams by weight--HOLDING (info from post added by CC: On 12/21/21 my dosage was .060grams by weight or 20mg. )

26 Apr 2022 - Zoloft at -0-

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tapering two drugs at once can be confusing; if you get a bad reaction, which one is causing it? Which do you updose?

 

The Drug Interactions Checker http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.htmlis a fairly good source for identifying symptoms that might be related to drug combinations. Doctors and pharmacists are supposed to use something similar, but often skip that step.

 

I did check on the interactions of Doxepin and Clonidine again and after further reading found out that they decrease each others action.   I'm thinking that it has to do with norepinephrine ---Doxepin raising it and Clonidine lowering it.  Ideally, you would taper together but can't do that.  So..... I'm going to micro raise the Clonidine again and see if there's any change in the B/P because it is scary high now.  I'm hoping that my system will allow me to raise my dose back up to where it was and lower the B/P back to what it was before the fiasco with the Clonidine supplier.   As a side note, my husband spoke with a pharmacist at our mail order/on line pharmacy (Express Scripts) who assured him that there is NO difference between brands of generic Clonidine and that I shouldn't have had any problems....my, I guess I broke the rules! 

1971-81  Valium 5mg c/t PAWS     1992- through now Zoloft 25mg    2003-05 Valium 12mg Slow Taper Off

2013 Afrin Exposure to CNS    2013 O/D Val 230mg    2013 Doxepin 50mg Clonidine 2mg Zoloft 25mg

3/15/16  Doxepin 49mg Micro Tapering  Zoloft 24.3mg Holding taper

3/15/16 Clonidine mg 0.1 1/2 -    Decreasing incrementally.  DISCONTINUED

10/9/16  Doxepin 48.9  Zoloft 24.3  Clonidine  01.10  Continuing micro taper on Doxepin.

11/16/16 Doxepin 48mg  Zoloft 24.3mg  Clonidine 1.30mg

5/4/17  Doxepin 45mg  Zoloft 24mg  Clonidine 1.20mg   Micro taper of Doxepin  , Clonidine

01/13/19  Doxepin 45mg   Zoloft 21mg   Will start Micro taper of Doxepin 2/19

12/21/21  Doxepin 20 mg ?  Reducing using water micro taper--Pulling 24ml from 75ml

12/2121   Zoloft .060 grams by weight--HOLDING (info from post added by CC: On 12/21/21 my dosage was .060grams by weight or 20mg. )

26 Apr 2022 - Zoloft at -0-

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

Please see above.

 

Beta blockers and alpha blockers also require slow tapering, 10% reductions at a time based on the last dosage (the amount of the reduction keeps getting smaller). Taper should be slow enough not to trigger blood pressure rebound increases.

My daughter has taken atenolol (beta blocker ) for migraine for the last three years. She wants to try without now that all the pressure of exams are over. What would you suggest with regards to tapering plan?

Does a liquid version exist?

 

I'm so annoyed with myself for taking her to the doctors initially and for being given a drug which she has now to taper from.

It's one thing for me as an adult to be placed on drugs but another for a 15 year old.

Any help welcome please

Dec 2005 prozac following period of bullying by collegue 2006 changed to Citalapram 20- increased to 40mg

April 2014 decision to come off A.D. Gp appointment swapped to seralatine (lustral)50 as a means of getting off A.D .

raised to 100. 14.7.14 5 weeks taper on doctors recommendation.28th July finished reduction. 4.8.14- 9.9.14 severe withdrawal effects. 13.10.14 reinstatement of 20mg Prozac.dec 2014 started gradual taper 10% every 3 weeks. 14.9.15 1.6 ml currently. Some minor withdrawal effects but holding firm. 10% reduction every 3 weeks. Reached .8 experienced withdrawal symptoms held for longer . 7.4.16 currently on .7ml Prozac. More difficult the lower you go. 25.7.16 holding at .57 ml for a while as period of stress and withdrawal.

2.9.16 Hip operation prescribed codeine and paracetamol for the pain. Stopped after three weeks for fear of addiction. following period of instability and withdrawal symptoms updosed to 1. Ml 28.10.16.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Reflex, atenolol needs careful tapering and is available in a liquid that is 25mg per ml. It is better for tapering because it can be diluted to get smaller decreases. You might need to be polite but assertive with your GP to get the liquid, they often recommend tapers that are far too fast. 

 

You could taper by 10% of the previous dose with 3 weeks between drops. It is easier than anti depressants but still needs tapering because it affects blood pressure and could lead to a spike by cutting too much at once.  It will take time but is better in the long term, going too fast could end up being given more drugs to counter the withdrawal.  

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

My 91yo father's doc just CTd him from metoprolol 20mg bid after DECADES on it.  His BP has been running low and I agree that metoprolol should be discontinued, but not abruptly.   I'm battling home health nurse and his doctor who say they'll monitor his BP.   Of course, my dad refuses to go against doctor orders.  

 

The doc already DCd (cold turkey) Norvasc (calcium channel blocker) and Lasix within the past 2 month.  

 

Am I overreacting?   Any suggestions welcome.  

 

 

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • Administrator

You need to either educate the doc or find a new doc.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I'm pretty confident in saying alpha blockers don't need withdrawal periods. And I should point out that clonidine is NOT an alpha blocker, despite some websites grouping it with them. That stuff absolutely needs a taper.

There is no rebound sympatholytic activity with discontinuation of terazosin for several weeks [1]. And there is no rebound noted with discontinuation of prazosin for a short period, after it was taken for several months [2]. Some of the PTSD/prazosin studies looked at skipped doses [3] and found that nightmares and symptoms returned. Now they weren't specifically looking for whether they would get worse vs pre-treatment but some state return of symptoms, some state return to pre-treatment levels, but none worse. Also neither hypertension or CHF study noted rebound anxiety or anything like that, which is probably more important because they would more clearly indicate a long term psychiatric change of baseline than the PTSD studies, who well... already have PTSD. But alpha blockers do stop working at least for some so the implication is that 1) the alpha 1 receptor desensitizes to the drug in a way that isn't upregulation and 2) there isn't really a large hormonal change induced by stopping these drugs like with antidepressants or these studies would have been a lot more eventful (and this was actually measured in [1]).

 

Although it's useful to do a taper when using for PTSD because of rebound symptoms even if they are only temporary once the trauma has been processed, there isn't any sense in tapering it like an antidepressant at 10% per month.

 

Granted, they're not some of the more common drugs people come off over here... but there it is.

 

References: [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2872805

[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7223594

[3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3538493/

Dx: complex PTSD

Discontinuation/taper history: sertraline, trazodone, prazosin, mirtazapine, diazepam

Took 200mg quetiapine for 0.5 years and 150mg for 1.5 years until 01/2020. Now microtapering daily at an overall rate of 12.5mg/month.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

Hi, my doctor gave me propanolol to help with my anxiety. He said take it whenever I feel anxious/panicky but I don't have to take it every day/consistently, is that ok to do? He said we only have beta receptors in the brain and bladder and it doesn't effrect hormones like SSRIs do (when I was telling him about long-term withdrawals). I'm planning to only take 10mg when I'm panicky, I know it's not much but I'm too afraid to go higher.

(Sorry just realised I posted this in the wrong thread)

16.4.14 - 25.4.15 Took Paxil (??mg) - cold turkey. Had random pgad symptoms around this time but not sure when exactly.

?.5.14: Started Citalopram (10mg) / 17.5.14: Quickly upped to 20mg  / 9?.15: upped to 30mg. 

8.16: Tapered off Citalopram in less than 2 weeks / 9.16: straight back on 20mg for just a week then stopped cold turkey. 11.16 Very mild pgad, PN symptoms and other withdrawals started.

7.12.16: Took Amitriptyline 10mg for just 2 days then stopped cold turkey.

14.12.16: reinstated 5mg of Citalopram / 1?.16: 10mg Citalopram / ?.16: 20mg Citalopram. 3.17 (6 months since withdrawing) pgad hit.

8.2.18: 15mg Citalopram / 8.3.18: 10mg / 8.4.18: 5mg / 12?.5.18: 2.5mg / 19.5.18: 0mg. pgad worsened almost instantly from first tapper, all sorts of PN symptoms, earworm, tinnitus, other things, coming and going until late 9.18 (4 months since 0mg) where it all got SO MUCH worse for 1.11 years (with windows and waves).

1.9.20: 99% healed ❤️

31.5.21: Smoked weed 5 out of 9 days. Pgad and other old withdrawals came back, plus developed akathesia & fibromyalgia.

7.22: Steadily recovering again ❤

2.23: Acute withdrawals coming back, no apparent reason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

Yes, you can take propanolol occasionally. If you find you're taking it every day, you may have to taper off.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 11 months later...

I am not there as of yet but would like to know what would be the recommended lowest dose of propranalol to stop at? The jump off point. 

Trying to work out how many boxes in need and trying to work out what's the safest stop point. I didn't know if it was important to get down to 1mg or if i could stop at say 4mg. Or maybe higher. I dont know. Any input welcome. 

Thanks 

2015- Jan 2021 20mg Citalapram

Jan 2021- April 2021 Sertraline (CT)

June 2021 - Fluoxetine & Trazadone

Oct 2021- Trazadone to Quitiapin 

Oct 2021 to June 2022 switches Duloxetine then paroxatine then Venlafaxine.

June 2022- venlafaxine for 5 or 6 weeks at 37.5 twice daily. Upped for one week to 75mg twice daily but caused panic attacks. Dropped back down to 37.5 twice daily. Panic attacks stopped. 

1 week- 62.5mg 1 week- 50mg 1 week- 37.5mg 1 week - 25mg 

ANTIDEPRESSANT FREE SINCE JULY 22ND 2022!! 

18/05/23 - 01-06/23 doxycycline for a rat bite 

Taken propranalol since 2015. 80mg.

21/11/22 76mg. 28/11/22 72mg. 05/12/22 68mg. 19/12/22 64mg. 27/12/22 60mg. 02/01/23 56mg. 09/01/23 50mg. 16/01/23 47mg. 23/01/23 44mg. 29/01/23 40mg. 05/02/23 38mg. 12/02/23 35mg. 19/02/23 32mg. 25/02/23 27mg. 04/03/23 25mg. 11/03/23 22mg. 17/03/23 19mg. 24/03/23 20mg. 05/04/23 18mg. 11/04/23 16mg. 17/04/23 14mg. 27/04/23 20mg. 19/06/23 19mg. 25/06/23 20mg. 04/08/23 18mg. 11/08/23 17mg. 16/08/23 16mg. 25/08/23 15mg. 01/09/23 14mg. 08/09/23 13mg. 15/08/23 12mg. 22/09/23 11mg. 29/09/23 10mg. 19/11/23 9mg. 26/11/23 8mg. 03/12/23 7mg. 10/12/23 6mg. 17/12/23 5mg. 24/12/23 4mg. 31/01/23 3mg. 07/01/24 2mg. 13/01/24 1mg. 19/01/24 0mg. DONE! 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

The following link contains data on sympathomimetic drugs and contains data on the medication clonidine which is sometimes used for withdrawal.

 

https://tmedweb.tulane.edu/pharmwiki/doku.php/alpha_sympathomimetics

 

Within the link there is a chart which shows what clonidine does within the nervous system.

 

 

Current Psychiatric Medications

  1. Paxil 10mg daily (a.m.) 2017 - Present
  2. Carbamazepine IR  190 mg twice daily (380mg Daily) 2011 - Present (Currently Tapering)

Past Psychiatric Medications From 1994 to August 2021   Seroquel (in Recovery since August 2021 final dose 6.25mg), Depakote, Lithium, Risperidone, Xanax, Lamotrigene, Olanzapine, Lorazepam, Welbutrin, Trazodone, Oxazepam, Gabapentin, Abilify, Topiramate, Prazosin, Ambien (See Attached Spreadsheet And Seroquel Tapering And WIthdrawal Summary)

Current Non Psychiatric Medications Levothyroxine 88mcg (a.m.)-Vitamin D3 1000 IU (p.m.)-Fexofenadine 180 mg twice daily -Clonidine 0.1 mg (p.m.)-Azelastine Nasal Spray

Other - Fish Oil Twice Daily-Multi-Vitamin (a.m.)-Vitamin C 1000mg Daily (a.m.)-Saline Nasal Spray-Salsalate 750mg twice daily PRN, Diclofenac Gel on affected joint PRN-Magnesium Citrate 250mg twice daily, Betaine HCL & Digestine Enzymes With Meals

Quitting Seroquel_A Vacation In Hell_Redacted.pdf

Other Documents https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/26099-feralcatman-recovering-from-seroquel/?do=findComment&comment=633907

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, FeralCatman said:

The following link contains data on sympathomimetic drugs and contains data on the medication clonidine which is sometimes used for withdrawal.

 

https://tmedweb.tulane.edu/pharmwiki/doku.php/alpha_sympathomimetics

 

Within the link there is a chart which shows what clonidine does within the nervous system.

 

 

This is very interesting..  clonidine is prescribed in hyper POTS and I looked at your link and see that it's a alpha 2 agonist..   it now makes sense why mirtazapine screwed up these receptors as it is a alpha 2 antagonist..

 

People with hypermobility can have autonomic dysfunction due to excess norepinephrine (sympathetic overdrive).

 

https://franklincardiovascular.com/ehlers-danlos-syndrome-eds-and-autonomic-dysfunction/

 

https://www.ehlers-danlos.com/2017-eds-classification-non-experts/hypermobile-ehlers-danlos-syndrome-clinical-description-natural-history/#:~:text=hEDS is mainly identified by,from a checklist of findings.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK1279/

 

 

Chronic IBS since 1990

Former smoker (1992- Jun 2017)

Prescribed mirtazapine for sleep in Aug 2017 after IBS flare-up following Nicotine cessation.

Mirtazapine 7.5mg 8/17 to 5/18

Mirtazapine 3.75mg 5/18 to 1/19

Off Mirtazapine since 2/19.

Vit B, Vit D+K2 and Magnesium Glycinate as needed.

On Ayurvedic herbs for GI issues - Guduchi since Jul 2020, Indukantham since Oct 2020

On Ashwagandha 1g since Nov 2020

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, tsranga said:

This is very interesting..  clonidine is prescribed in hyper POTS and I looked at your link and see that it's a alpha 2 agonist..   it now makes sense why mirtazapine screwed up these receptors as it is a alpha 2 antagonist..

 

People with hypermobility can have autonomic dysfunction due to excess norepinephrine (sympathetic overdrive).

 

https://franklincardiovascular.com/ehlers-danlos-syndrome-eds-and-autonomic-dysfunction/

 

https://www.ehlers-danlos.com/2017-eds-classification-non-experts/hypermobile-ehlers-danlos-syndrome-clinical-description-natural-history/#:~:text=hEDS is mainly identified by,from a checklist of findings.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK1279/

 

 

I looked at the same articles and briefly wondered about hyper pots for myself as a diagnosis. However I quickly abandoned that simply because these symptoms only appeared in withdrawal and I've never had anything like this ever before in my life. I've had panic attacks but they come and go relatively quickly and what just happened was certainly not an ordinary to panic attack because they don't last for 5 days. For myself I think it's just withdrawal based sympathetic Overdrive.

Current Psychiatric Medications

  1. Paxil 10mg daily (a.m.) 2017 - Present
  2. Carbamazepine IR  190 mg twice daily (380mg Daily) 2011 - Present (Currently Tapering)

Past Psychiatric Medications From 1994 to August 2021   Seroquel (in Recovery since August 2021 final dose 6.25mg), Depakote, Lithium, Risperidone, Xanax, Lamotrigene, Olanzapine, Lorazepam, Welbutrin, Trazodone, Oxazepam, Gabapentin, Abilify, Topiramate, Prazosin, Ambien (See Attached Spreadsheet And Seroquel Tapering And WIthdrawal Summary)

Current Non Psychiatric Medications Levothyroxine 88mcg (a.m.)-Vitamin D3 1000 IU (p.m.)-Fexofenadine 180 mg twice daily -Clonidine 0.1 mg (p.m.)-Azelastine Nasal Spray

Other - Fish Oil Twice Daily-Multi-Vitamin (a.m.)-Vitamin C 1000mg Daily (a.m.)-Saline Nasal Spray-Salsalate 750mg twice daily PRN, Diclofenac Gel on affected joint PRN-Magnesium Citrate 250mg twice daily, Betaine HCL & Digestine Enzymes With Meals

Quitting Seroquel_A Vacation In Hell_Redacted.pdf

Other Documents https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/26099-feralcatman-recovering-from-seroquel/?do=findComment&comment=633907

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use Privacy Policy