LoveandLight: sertraline withdrawal

[moodyblues78]

Just remember to take things easy even when in a window. We often take windows as a sign of normal life returning and enjoy "too much". That just is too much for us at this stage.

[LoveandLight]

Thanks moody blues for the advice. Not that I'm planning it at the moment or even in the next month but how do I know what is stable enough to start dropping the dose? When the windows and waves stop being so pronounced?

[moodyblues78]

There is no way of knowing when is the right time to cut. You have to listen to your gut. Windows and waves are bound to go on even after you`ve stopped tapering. It just slowly gets less and less pronounced. You need to find your own pace. What is slow enough for your body and fast enough for your mind so you don`t fear the cuts too much. It is a delicate balance. 

 

I did not get much relief until after about 5 month after I reinstated. Slow progress from there on. The only way for me too see progress is to look far enough back and compare. It`s that slow. 

 

At the moment your symptoms may come and go very violently but with a slow taper, acceptance and time you`ll see that these symptoms will start to fade. New ones may come and old ones go away. It is not a static pattern. If old symptoms comes back it does not mean that you are getting worse. That is normal too. They will pass once again.

 

Just have faith in that you`ll beat this and you will. 

[LoveandLight]

Think the window is closing. Very restless last night and fear today..fear that I'm going to be alone the rest of life, fear that I'm not going to find home, fear that I'm not going to find my place in the world..dunno if the fear has come first then these worrying thoughts but this life scenario has been my life so far..bloody scared but I do feel that these things will not come into place until I'm a bit more comfortable at home in myself..

[Altostrata]

It can be terribly stressful not having a stable living situation.

[WinningThrough]

Thinking of you, Joanna.

[LoveandLight]

Yes it's not even a stable living situation but even a location that feels like home.

 

Thank you winning through.

 

The depression has been awful today to the point where I could barely speak at work. I couldn't actually live with this depression long term and this is what scares me..I feel a lot of pressure to get better feel better as I'm not going to be able to suffer this and Also maybe the drugs have made me dependent and I won't be able yo come off? Feel like my little window was a fluke.

[LoveandLight]

Sorry for the doom and gloom

[Altostrata]

Have faith in yourself. Focus on what you need. You'll figure out the living situation. Hang in, this too shall pass.

[LoveandLight]

Thank you very much for your words. That seems to be what I'm struggling with the trust in myself as for years and years maybe since young I've never really felt a strong sense of self and a lot of fear but as mentioned have had therapy and nothing has helped so far, going back to parents for bit but not sure it's the healthiest place to be. Going to experiment with dairy free diet.

[Petunia]

Not that I'm planning it at the moment or even in the next month but how do I know what is stable enough to start dropping the dose? When the windows and waves stop being so pronounced?

 

If you are experiencing withdrawal symptoms, that's a sign the nervous system is not stable.  If you are still experiencing symptoms in a windows and waves pattern, that means you are still in the process of stabilizing and not yet ready to continue tapering.  It can sometimes take a long time, especially if there are other sources of stress in your environment.

 

Of course everyone is different, with the amount of stress they can tolerate, but we all have our limits and long term drug use/withdrawal seems to lower our threshold, at least until we recover fully.

 

Staying with your parents might be good.  Not having a stable living environment can cause an incredible amount of stress.  I lived like that for about 6 years, while also struggling with drug and withdrawal issues.  It wasn't until I finally got my living situation stable that I could even begin to relax on a deep enough level for my nervous system to start to settle down, even then it took much longer than I expected to start to feel secure again.

 

I don't think having a strong sense of self is necessarily a good thing, its more important to develop skills and abilities through experience, change and growth.  Having a strong sense of self can be limiting.  Have faith in your ability to survive and get through this, its taken considerable strength and courage to get as far as you have.

[LoveandLight]

Thanks Petu

 

I'm going back to a place (town) that has awful memories (all in hindsight whilst I have been withdrawing) but I have been unable to establish anywhere else to go. I stayed in a homeless hostel for a year but the noise and stress became too much, although after another year I would have a home to stay in, although in an awful drug ridden part of town. My parents run a bnb so when it's gets busy I will have to leave again and they may also be moving in spring. When I'm relatively well, I have a lot of interests places I would like to explore, loads of subjects I would like to study but I seem to crash with fear before I can even get going but I'm feeling the extreme fear is also a side effect of medication.

 

Phoned in sick to work today going to have to get signed off or give another job up. I don't feel I can cope with the stress of just being at work also feel internal shaking and waking up with fear every hr during the night. I do think that maybe my life circumstances has a lot to do with not feeling well..I always had the sense that I'm just plodding along in a life that doesn't seem to fit me but I very rarely feel well enough to make a change or it's so fleeting that I don't have time to act before the confusion numbness depression starts again.

 

I don't feel that I'm strong at all but thank you. The suicidal thoughts and feelings (like internal pressure) have been incredibly intense which makes me feel I might have to updose again. I feel such a disappointment in myself that I have got worse and my life feels like hell. I also worry / feel ashamed that I'm not able to cope hold down work like everyone else but as long as I can get through this alive then there is still hope although a the moment I'm trying to convince myself of that.

[LoveandLight]

If I had memories of being able to function, have relationships, have a normal life then it might make this a little easier to get through..I feel like I'm clutching at straws for some positivity and reason to keep going..accept and totally sink into all this rubbish or not

[LoveandLight]

Sorry to on just feel stuck. Going to have to give up my job just part time already on sickness benefit as so depressed. Also very worried how long has people put with depression before they updose? I cannot seem to get out of my mind that this could be permanent..

[Petunia]

 I do think that maybe my life circumstances has a lot to do with not feeling well..I always had the sense that I'm just plodding along in a life that doesn't seem to fit me

 

I think this would cause sadness, apathy and a lack of motivation in most people, especially if there was also a sense of helplessness to change it.  I'm wondering did you ever explore this in counseling?

 

I have a theory about 'depression'.  Its just my theory, and I'm not a doctor, so ignore it if you want.  But I think that unless 'depression' is caused by something obvious like grief over a loss of some kind, unresolved trauma, unmet needs, or drug withdrawal, then its a very important 'message' from our higher self or deeper knowing that something about our life is not right, often something at a deep level which we are not aware of.  Its a call to slow down and ask ourselves some of the big questions, to find out who we really are and move closer towards who we were meant to be.  Usually, this happens at a very inconvenient time, when we have other plans underway, like careers, mortgages and dependent families.  Sometimes it happens early in life, before we are 'trapped', but we ignore it for some reason.  I think that unexplained depression is usually caused by feeling forced to live an inauthentic life,  and feeling helpless to change anything.

 

Something else occurred to me after looking at your signature, you are taking quite a high dose of magnesium.  That may be fine for you, because we are all different.  But I have noticed that if I take magnesium during the day, it makes me feel more depressed than I already am.  Someone else, I think it was  cymbaltawithdrawal5600 wrote in her thread a while ago about how reducing her magnesium dose helped to lift the depression slightly. 

[LoveandLight]

Hiya, I did mention this in counselling, I think but I cannot remember really what was explored. I'm now seeing a spiritual counsellor and will journal this. However, over the years, I've had brief moments where I have inspiration to a life that would actually fit but not been well enough to change anything, so that is depressing in itself!

 

I am looking at the root cause of the depression with the counsellor but nothing is ringing true yet. I do think that maybe food intolerances have a lot to do with it and exploring that at the moment. I have experimented with this on and off for years but only when highly medicated so I will see what the results are this time.

 

I do like your theory about depression. Looking back even at 4/5 I had severe anxiety and then depression. Instead of trying to find out what was wrong I was always told 'come on, just get on with it'. This seems to be a very common approach in depression, hurry people along, ignoring any warning signs and if they are not doing well enough give them a pill!

[LoveandLight]

Managed to excercise last night and helped my head feel clearer, a bit more positive but it produced more restlessness going to bed and now anxious..

[degen12]

Can you try a dose in between 12.5 and 25 mg. I understand that going back to 25 mg would feel like a huge defeat for you, but what about half-way? My sertraline always came in capsules that were easy to open and sort the powder. You could go to 17 mg (2/3 of a 25 mg capsule). That is still a significant accomplishment. I remember reading that 8 mg of sertraline inhibits 50% (!!! at 8 mg) of the SERT, which is why I personally think this is partly why it was become so hard for you. The difference between 50 and 25 mg is much less than the difference between 25 mg and 12.5 mg. That is just my personal experiences with those dose ranges, having fiddled with sertraline for ages, and everyone's experience differs of course.

[LoveandLight]

Yes I'm considering that but I'm also wanting to wait it out a little bit..thank you for that. Also I may have the opportunity to take a housitting job for a few months in the south of England ( in a few months). As this town has a lot of triggers for me, especially from previous withdrawals I think this also may help.

[rickoshea]

Hi Joanna .... I thought I would let you know that from my own experience stabilising can take a long long time. I'm at 8 months now from reinstating and although things have got better I still have waves (last week was one after quite a few decent weeks). Its so very hard to believe that you'll come through the wave but you can, and will, ride it out. Slowly things improve and then you will be more clear as to how to proceed. Others here have vastly more experience than me but for me the full reinstatement caused me to go through hell for quite a while so maybe degen12 is right and you could try a partial one? From what I've read here you want to take just enough to alleviate your w/d symptoms. I'll let others advise you on that one though. I agree with what Alto, Rhi etc say .... it seems to be a stable dose that heals rather than the actual level of that dose (unless the dose is too high....)

 

I see you're in Inverness .... I went to university in Dundee and did 6 months as an SHO in Raigmore Hospital. It's a beautiful part of the world but again I understand completely what you mean by triggers ... the mind can be a cruel master (or mistress!) but have faith, things will eventually even out

[LoveandLight]

Thank you Rickoshea for your reply..I'm not on the full dose just now just 12.5mg some days I want to updose, the next I want to wait it out. Glad your having some decent weeks

 

Yes, beautiful countryside around here and I used to go off myself and do photography but now find it lonely but then I'm triggered in town, especially with a lot of familiar faces - it's hardly the place for being anonymous

 

Where about are you, if you don't mind me asking?

[rickoshea]

I'm actually living just south of Paris in France at the minute, having travelled and worked in Scotland, Ireland and the USA beforehand. I'll also being moving "home" to Ireland next year sometime .... and this will be the final move.

 

I'm a gypsy! 

 

I agree, it's not easy remaining anonymous in Inverness but what a beautiful place, I have great memories of being there (and some rather hazy ones!)

 

You saying some days you want to updose, some you want to stick it out. I've been through all that and made the mistake of chopping and changing my dose before I got advised here to chose one dose and stay at that. It really is good advice as sadly these medications do not have an immediate effect like an antibiotic and stability in dose seems to be the key. Magnesium .... I tried that and apparently it helps many. Unfortunately for me it made me worse (anxious, nervous etc) and I had to stop it. This may be because of the CFS/ME I have as I'm hypersensitive to medication ... even multivitamins make me feel ill. But hell, at least my blood pressure and cholesterol are low!

 

Take care and let the experienced ones here give you advice but I reckon just stay at that dose and wait it out. It will get better

[LoveandLight]

Hi Rickoshea thank you

 

France - sounds lovely!

[LoveandLight]

How do I know that this is withdrawal or/and a destabilised nervous system? As I mentioned, I excercised which shifted the depression but now I have an internal tremour.

[Altostrata]

Withdrawal is a destabilised nervous system.

[LoveandLight]

As i'm quite isolated at the moment and I know that several others on here have had spiritual experiences, I feel like writing and sharing here. 

 

Someone that I used to be close to, but now not so much due to stalker like tendancies was desperate to show me a book labelled 'God is not great' and in particular a chapter about people pursuing spirituality as a way of escape.  It is a drop in support centre that I spend time in and there was another person in the room. They began quite a heated debate, with the mentioned person saying 'just because you feel an energy or presence does not mean any higher source exists and he was quite insistant that it does not exist.  He also went on to say that people who pursue spirituality are looking for something that is not there and may be always chasing something that is not there.  He then went onto say that he only wanted to say this as he is worried about me.  Anyway, as if I'm not feeling bad enough, I came away full of doubt and quite devastated actually.  I feel that I don't have a strong enough confidence either in my spiritual life but my normal life is quite awful just now also with adhenoia, dyphoria, also.  This loss of confidence goes across the board from spiritual life to feeling terror at the constant emptiness I feel to loss of confidence in worldly life due to being unable to function for so long.  And, also at the back of my mind, what if this is true that no such thing exists, maybe I imagined all those spiritual experiences and the ephipanies don\'t mean anything either.  Can anyone relate to this?

[Altostrata]

That would be an excellent topic for the Finding meaning forum.

[LoveandLight]

Had to go home from work..it's a physical job and feel like I'm being dragged down difficult yo move function, and insomnia for a week, awful night last night surges of anxiety, racing thoughts feel like there is a huge fight going on in my head all the time and something like pain in my head although it's not pain, like irritation? Also disorientation, confusion, a feeling of horror, I could just scream..although also time of period so I think that does not help..it's strange it all escalates to such a height but now seen to be in a window, the window feels amazing, everything just melts away and have a sense of wellbeing and clear headed ness...seems to be the pattern.

 

Have given my notice today two weeks and then end dec move away for housesitting post. Although I'm feeling that I might not even manage to work the end of my notice. I am under no pressure to work right now but I do worry about another job being given up throughout this 6 years of crap and how that is explained to future employers..I do feel that having no pressure to go into work (noisy, busy environment) right now would help greatly.

[LoveandLight]

Such a feeling of horror, dread panic today..disconnected..I'm just wondering whether going back on 12.5mg two months ago was too much after taking 0 for 3 days? Is hard to know.

[LoveandLight]

I posted on this thread before comparing the spiritual path to this withdrawal process and said it was exciting. I take that back and I'm sorry to have even used that word in conjunction with the withdrawal process.

[Wildflower0214]

As i'm quite isolated at the moment and I know that several others on here have had spiritual experiences, I feel like writing and sharing here.

 

Someone that I used to be close to, but now not so much due to stalker like tendancies was desperate to show me a book labelled 'God is not great' and in particular a chapter about people pursuing spirituality as a way of escape. It is a drop in support centre that I spend time in and there was another person in the room. They began quite a heated debate, with the mentioned person saying 'just because you feel an energy or presence does not mean any higher source exists and he was quite insistant that it does not exist. He also went on to say that people who pursue spirituality are looking for something that is not there and may be always chasing something that is not there. He then went onto say that he only wanted to say this as he is worried about me. Anyway, as if I'm not feeling bad enough, I came away full of doubt and quite devastated actually. I feel that I don't have a strong enough confidence either in my spiritual life but my normal life is quite awful just now also with adhenoia, dyphoria, also. This loss of confidence goes across the board from spiritual life to feeling terror at the constant emptiness I feel to loss of confidence in worldly life due to being unable to function for so long. And, also at the back of my mind, what if this is true that no such thing exists, maybe I imagined all those spiritual experiences and the ephipanies don\'t mean anything either. Can anyone relate to this?

Yes, and I feel like it's another trick of the WD. WD has had me question everything. Wondering if anything I ever believed was real. But, I choose to believe it is. I have no real proof someone couldn't reason away, but I have no purpose aside from my faith. I can't prove it, never will be able to, and have had my share of questions. I tend to be very analytical and have a tendency to reason about everything, so faith is more challenging for me. But, I choose to hang on to it, because when I have been brought to my knees during this and other times in my life, it was the only thing left. It was the only thing that was real. It was all I had. So, I hold on.

[LoveandLight]

Very bad cognitive fog the past 4 days..cannot even seem to function doing a cleaning job? Is there anything I can do apart from waiting (I cannot tolerate fish oil).

[WinningThrough]

Thinking of you, my friend.

[LoveandLight]

aww I'm ok actually I just feel and definitely look like I am not on this planet but it's ok just would like to be more with it xx

[mammaP]

It will come Joanna, the fog takes time to clear but it will clear eventually, like the bathroom mirror that 

is all steamed up, it clears eventually if you just leave it be. Mamma hugs.

[LoveandLight]

Thank you Mamma