Sky1251 effexor and remeron withdrawal.

[Sky1251]

Hi. Now im 25 years old. I grew up and raised in Bangkok, Thailand. Then destiny took over and i spent my years of high school and college in Boston, Massachusetts.

 

How did i come to find you guy? well, it started about September 2012 when my first pet, Yoda the cat, passed away at age of 1 year 8 months. He spent half of his life in Boston with me and then another in Bangkok before he went to heaven.

 

After he passed away, i was very sad and lost (yet, i didnt the meaning of depressed compare to now). At time, i began to drink and smoked very heavily. About sep 2013, a year later, i was feeling quite confident and happy, yet i was still on alcohol and mj to hide my sadness. Its an asian thing you see, where a man talking about his struggle and sadness is unacceptable. Then one night in sep 2013, i didnt want to keep anymore secret to my parent, i told them "i was on weed and alcohol daily, but im trying to give them up, please bare with me during the giving up period". Then, after few of aggression behaviour and with my parent's frustration (its totally not their fault), they put me in a car, drove to the Psychiatrist they planned.

 

I knew it was just alcohol and weed withdrawal and i needed sometime. Atleast thats what i told my parent and the Doctor. Instead, the doctor quickly put me into Rehab after about 10 minutes of our conversation. At first, i believe them. They are doctor and nurses, for god sake. i was given a handful of drug every morning and night for 5 weeks in rehab. At the time, i didnt question anything. 

 

After i got out of Rehab, which was in October 2013, i was doing fine. I mean, i remember things vaguely and was not depressed. I was slow and zombie-like ofcause. After rehab, thats when i see what kind of drugs they were given me; Depakine, Seroquel, Litium, and many more i couldn't remember.

 

3 months have passed and it was X'mas time. I started to feel really weird, not to mention the zombify and slowness. I felt like i did not want to do anything, i was hopeless in life for the first time in my life. By that time, i did not drink or smoked at all, i was believing in my Doctor whom i see every 2 weeks. Drugs he gave me were still in high amount. My girlfriend who was very understanding and very close to me at that time also noticed the strangeness in me. i could not make a single decision on anything, i was very fearful of seeing my friend and family, and very scared of talking to my girlfriend. I went back to the doctor and told my fear and sorrows.

 

Right then, he stop given me all the MoodStabilizer drugs and switched to all Antidepressants; Effexor 300mg in the morning, Remeron 30mg at night and Rivotril 4mg. i was very surprised by how he switched the drugs so easily. By January 2014, i was very depressed and could not get out of bed, only thinking about welcoming death. It was the most hopeless chapter of my life. I did not want to do anything, talk to my parent nor even my girlfriend. I could not eat. January till April was just that.

 

About the beginning of June, i felt a little bit better... glad i did not took my life. I asked my doctor to lower the dosage of my dugs.. and he agreed. From 300mg of effexor to 150mg, yet 30mg of remeron and rivotril still the same. Within the next day i felt full withdrawal classic symptoms; headache, fatigue, brainzap, nauseas and many more. I was terrified. At that time, i started to make some research and found you guy. Thanks god.

 

With fear and little knowledge, i stayed on 150mg of effexor for a week, then 75mg for 3 days, 37.5mg for another 3 days, then off to ZERO. i did the same with remeron right after where i cut down to 15mg for a week, then ZERO. 

 

YES, acute withdrawal was very server for the first month. Then physically symptoms was diminished. 2nd and the 3rd month i was living in Fear and Terror. I would waking up with such a horrid dreams every 3 hours. i could not really function well. I learned about Wave and Window from this site, and i tried to live my life as healthy as possible, yet it was very hard. I have been taking alot of fish oil and Vitamins B. Some day i was doing ok, i mean be able to walk around and get food at the market. Most of the time i was very sick.

 

My girlfriend was very understanding and took care of me well. I told everything and she listened. But by the end of July, she had to leave for school in London. That was when i get super stress and down. It seems like i was back at square one. I tried to hold on to what Althos said about Wave and Recovery, but i just cant. I am very desperate.

Edited October 17, 2014 by bubble
deleted the name and surname for privacy reasons

[bubble]

Hello and welcome to SA.

 

First of all, I'd like to remind you that the forum is fully accessible on the internet so that's why we don't use our names and surnames to protect our privacy. You may want to send a personal message to Altostrata if you want to have your name replaced with some nickname. 

 

I'm very sorry about everything you have been put through at the rehab centre. Being put on so many psycothropic medication would make everyone very unwell. Feeling like zombie and slow as you describe it was without doubt a result of very irresponsible administration of that many drugs which usually have quite severe and even dangerous interactions.

 

When you describe what happened in June going from 300 to 150 mg of Effexor it clearly caused severe withdrawal syndrome. If you did some reading on this site, you would notice that we recommend tapering only one drug at a time. The recommended speed is 10 % on your current dose per month. 

 

Reducing 3 drugs at the same time at such a speed as you describe cannot be called tapering. It's more of a cold turkey. No wonder you are feeling poorly especially given your experience with multiple drugs that you can't even remember that were irresponsibly shifted around. 

 

But you are young, if I read what you wrote right this has been happening for one year only (since October 2013) so you will recover provided you learn a bit more about how these drugs affect us since our doctors are suprisingly ignorant of that and believe the propaganda from the pharmacological industry rather than their patients.

 

What would help us give you some suggestions about what to do next are details on your drug history especially the approximate dates when all those changes were happening, as much as you can remember. When you have time please put your drug history in your signature as described here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Are you still taking rivotril? When did you stop taking Effexor and Remeron?  I entered Rivotril (clonazepam) Effexor and remeron into a drug interaction checker and it reported a major intercation between remeron and Effexor: http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=703-0,2296-1524,1640-1015

 

When you find the time please browse through our information on withdrawal syndrome and proper way of tapering.http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/300-important-topics-in-the-tapering-forum-and-faq/

 

When you provide us with the information I indicated we will see whether reinstating a very small amount of the drugs that you discontinued so abruptly (it's not clear when) would make sense.

 

Welcome once again.

 

Bubble

[Sky1251]

Hi Bubble,

 

thank you for the reply. And thank you ill contact Altho right away.

 

I stopped taking Effexor and completely on 9th June 2014, and Remeron and rivotril completely on 14th June 2014. It has been about 4months, ive been waking up every 2-3hours per night, Feeling super exhaust and stress very easily. I became a very anxious person these days. Fear of everything is common.

[bubble]

Thank you for providing all the details. What you went through is really some journey. The so called therapeutic dose of Effexor is 37.5 mg. Starting someone on almost 10 times as much is .... words fail me... irresponsible and negligent.

 

But let the bygones be bygones. As I said earlier, although the doses were high you were taking them for a relatively short period of time (compared to some of us who've been taking them for years and even decades). Since you stopped taking them 4 months ago if I were you I'd do my best to ride it out. Especially since you say that you already feel windows (symptoms subsiding) and your state is improving although it is still hard. 

 

I totally understand you when you say that you are desperate. These drugs affect so many things in our bodies and brains. But fortunately our brains are plastic and they can and do recover. It just takes time. I firmly believe that you will start feeling better and better as the time goes by. It's not uncommon that after a while as you describe it feels as back to square one. As scary and disheartening as it may seem, this is not a set back and it doesn't mean things will from then on go from bad to worse. On the contrary, it's just a part of the healing as the brain is resetting itself after being badly battered by drugs.

 

Treat yousrelf with as much gentle care as possible. As f you were nursing a broken leg. Allow yourself as much rest as needed and focus your attention on the glass being half full. This will make it easier to survive this time. For example, instead of feeling bad about waking up every 2-3 hours, you could feel grateful that you can sleep and look at how many hours of sleep you are able to get. I'm not saying that waking every 2-3 hours is acceptable but compared to no sleep at all it's simply a lot better option. Adopting such an attitude helped me tremendously in the months following reinstatement while I was waiting for my CNS to stabilise. I would just think to myself: great - I can go to a store today instead of thinking: oh no, I can't go to places I usually go to. Slowly and almost invisibly there are more moments when you can do something and feel better.

 

It's good that you are taking fish oil but check the link with our information about it. At first I was taking too little for it to have any effect. We avoid vitamins B. Although they are in generally very good for a healthy CNS, when your CNS is destabilised with drugs vitamins B tend to have paradoxical reactions and make symptoms worse. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

 

What we have found very helpful especially for reducing anxiety and in general calming down, which also helps with sleeping is magnesium. The general rule is: start slow and build up.http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

Let us know how you are doing. Journaling our progress here and exchanges experience with others helps many of us. Also reading therads on Symptoms and self-care. Loads of tips on what we can do to make ourselves feel better. 

 

It will get better

 

best,

Bubble

[Sky1251]

Hi Bubble,

 

Thank you so much for such supportive words, they mean alot to me during these difficult time. Yes, many times im feeling very hopeless and feeling like i dont want to take any vitamins and fish oil anymore. Thank you for reminding me again to stay positive. I'll keep fighting.

 

You said Vitamin B is bad??? I tried to look through the symptoms and self-care but quite confusing about vitamin B.

 

I went to this Vitamin clinic called VitalLife. I told the doctor about my drug withdrawal. He decided to give me IV Micronutrient therapy (Myers' Cocktail), which i believe is rich in Vitamin B, Magnesium, and C. I got my first shot last friday 10th oct. The passed week ive been very down and depressed. I thought that was part of the waves. But do you think i could be about vitamin B?

 

Do you have any suggestion on IV Micronutrient Therapy?

 

Sincerely yours

[bubble]

I'm very happy to be able to help you at least a little bit.

 

look at this one old post that I was able to find: 

 

I haven't heard good things about taking Vit B while on an AD or in WD... that it causes agitation and anxiety. Is there any truth to this? Does anyone have any information on this particular Vitamin - B 12?

 

 see more: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?showtopic=419

 

You can find more here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/606-important-topics-about-tests-supplements-herbs-treatments/

 

I'd like to emphasise this: Here are some topics discussing tests, supplements, herbs, and treatments that may answer your questions. 

No matter what you read about "natural" supplements or herbs, or even if an alternative practitioner, naturopath, or integrative doctor recommends them, you cannot treat withdrawal syndrome as though it is "natural" depression. 

In "natural" depression, your nervous system is normal and it is operating your body properly. In withdrawal syndrome, your nervous system is struggling to get back to normal operation. Don't try to speed this along with anything that may be stimulating, or you may further unbalance it.

SAM-E and other supplements that act on serotonin, including St. John's Wort, are not recommended for people with withdrawal syndrome. They tend to be stimulating in a way that most of us really do not need.

Many herbs also have unusual side effects in people with withdrawal syndrome.

Whatever you try, understand you may be hypersensitive to that particular substance or treatment. If you are trying an herb or supplement, take a tiny fraction of a normal dose and see how you react. Don't think you're going to smack a symptom down with a big dose of anything. More is not better when your system is sensitized by withdrawal.

Try herbs or supplements one by one. Don't take a bunch of supplements at once. If you have a bad reaction, you won't know which substance caused it. For this reason, we don't recommend "mixed" supplements, such as B vitamin supplements or sleep supplements with multiple ingredients.

 

If you felt worse after taking that shot, it is very likely the increase in symptoms were caused by it for the reasons explained above.

 

Write here any time about how you feel and what is happening. Checking other people's threads you will see that a lot of us are going through similar experiences.

 

best,

Bubble

[tgirl]

Hello sky,

How are you doing?

[Sky1251]

Hi Tgirl,

 

in about a week it would be my 6 months mark of Remeron free. I stopped Effexor a week earlier so i dont know if the withdrawal involve that also. Since month 5 i was doing a lot better, yet still not normal though. Waves come and go, hence milder i suppose. There are more good days and fewer bad, fatigue, anxious, and depressed days.

 When the wave hit, which was around month 4, i would wake up 3 times a night and could not get back to sleep right away. Nightmares and panic waking up were pretty normal during the wave period. I got insomnia where i get to sleep around 3 am every day. Anxiety all day.

 

These days i get to sleep about 7-8 hours which is life saver. I still wake up once in the middle of the night but then go right back to sleep which is a good sign. 

 

is there anything you want to know in specific? feel free to ask me anything, wish i could help.

 

Sky

[Petunia]

Thank you for updating Sky, it sounds like you are doing much better now and that's so good to hear.  I'm sure you will get back to normal eventually, might just take a little more time.  My advice is once you recover, never take these kinds of drugs again, look for natural treatments for emotional problems if they occur.

 

Did you ever have any more IV Micronutrient Therapy after that first shot?  Have there been any other things you have been doing which you think may be helping?

 

Petu.

[Sky1251]

Hi Petu,

 

Thank you for your support, and surely i wont take any psy drug again ever.

 

I had 2 IV Meyer's Cocktail shots, one around 23rd Sep 2014 and another around 9th Oct 2014. The first time i felt very tired after the shot, but i thought anxiety and depressed feelings were part of withdrawal. But by the time i took the second shot, i felt super anxious, frustrated, irritated and all that jazz. Anyhow, i guess after a major setback, i think i felt another step forward. Maybe the shot fasten the recovery, im still not sure? I went to this doctor who was very supportive and understanding about my withdrawal, he wanted all natural products and nutrition for me from now on. ( don't know if its the B-complex in the IV, but i dare not to get another shot soon.

 

 

As for what i think is helping, i pretty much follow the recommendation from this site. Im taking about 2000mg of EPA/DHA daily, 100 mg Magnesium chelate every night, 500mg Vitamin C in the morning. I tried to eat fish like salmon or tuna atleast 2 times a week which i think very helpful. Im trying to eat as clean as i could; no msg, no soda, no sugar. But im still having one cup of black coffee in the morning. I also smoke alot of cigarette which i think really worsen me down.  Trying exercise everyday, a speedup walk for 30mins, can get stress out for about an hour.

 

Hence, im still battling with sleepless night and broken up sleep. I have that classic cannot get to sleep and don't want to get out of bed. Morning was the most difficult time to just shower and eat. 

PS. what do you think about IV shot?

 

Sky

[Altostrata]

Hello, Sky.

 

You might take more magnesium, up to 300mg-400mg.

 

B vitamins are often "activating," making people nervous, jumpy, or sleepless. You can get a Myer's cocktail without B vitamins if you think they were a problem for you.

[Sky1251]

Hi Altos,

 

Thank you for your advice about Magnesium and IV shot. I will surely try to increase my dose of magnesium up.

 

Sorry for a late reply, I was on a month of vacation which i think it really helped my anxiety. Now im back to my normal life and cant seems to get myself to sleep. I usually sleep around 4am, and wake around noon. It usually takes me about 3-4 hours after waking up to be sane, then after that stress and anxiety are manageable.

 

 

 

ps. It has been about 7 months that im c/t off Effexor and Remeron. And i think im about 70% recovered. Im not giving up and i hope the best for anyone in tapering or recovering. 

 

Sky

[Altostrata]

Are you able to keep more conventional sleeping hours? You may be experiencing a shift in your sleep phase that you can correct.

[Sky1251]

i've tried very hard for that, but no matter if i got up earlier like 9am and tried to go to sleep early, i still cannot fall asleep until like 4am. No matter how tired i am, i started to have massive running thought when i lay down in bed. 2-3 hours after waking up still the hardest part of the day consisting with low mood, down and depressed sometime.

 

Some days are better than other where i have lower anxiety level and can exercise for an hour. But some days are just so depressing and anxious to get through.

 

Thank you and Hope you are well Alto,

 

Sky

[Altostrata]

You may wish to take magnesium glycinate and melatonin in the evening to prepare your nervous system for sleep. See the Symptoms and self-care forum.

[Sky1251]

Thank for your advice,

 

I tried 0.5mg as the forum suggested about 10pm, i did not feeling like sleeping until 3am still... i gave it 3 days just to make sure the result. The problem was that when i woke up, i felt even more depressed and ended up just lying in my bed couldnot get myself up. Light headache after waking up too... so i fear of the depressed feeling and im not dare taking any since yesterday.

 

Im sorry for such negative response to it i had.

 

These days anxiety level throughout the day seemed to be increasing massively compared to a month ago. I barely feel relaxed at all which i usually feel late at night.

 

I hope it is a wave. And i hope things will be better after the wave is gone.

 

I looked through the forum, but just for some assurance, Do you think it can be a wave right? at 8 months out? Im so full of fear and depressing feelings.

 

Sincerely,

Sky.

[mammaP]

Hello Sky, It does seem like you are in a wave right now. It is not unusual at 8 months off to get waves and it often feels like waves will never end but they always do. It doesn't help to have insomnia when you need sleep so badly. I too suffer from insomnia but I try not to worry about it. I go to bed and get comfortable then try to think about good things and pleasant memories. I make my bed my haven, warm, comfortable and a good place to be so I try not to take any worries to bed, they are still there in the morning right where I left them! 

 

I find that magnesium helps me to relax and eases the muscle tension and restless legs, and found taurine helped a little for a week or so then stopped working. I might try it again to see if it helps again.  This wave will pass, and I hope it passes soon for you, just ride it until the window opens and lets the sun shine back in. 

[Sky1251]

Thank you MammaP,

For your assurance, i guess i really needed it. Even i kinda knew or accepted that its a wave, part of me said it is not and will never end... this is who i am..

Gosh, i have read many people going through this kind of thought during waves, but when you're in it, it is so difficult have hope. Even i have gone through worse waves before.

 

Yeap, im taking magnesium every night thanks to Alto. Someday are better than others, but some just filled with so much anxiety and depression. Like today, im feeling abit better and my anxiety isnt so bad. I have hope and will to fight, but a part of me is just so tired of all this.

 

Anyway, how are you?? i hope you are doing well!!!

Sky

[withdrawlsucks]

Sky... Hello

All I can say is your heading in the right direction and doing the right things by keeping things simple.. a mistake I have made for 16 months in withdrawal.. trying to fix a problem with drugs and supplements that I know understand and delayed my system recovering if not made it worst... I get some days now I feel 90% and then bam next day back down and anxious as Hell... Moring anxiety adrenaline or cortisol surge through my body.. it's horrible... Just got to be strong I guess and try and get through it.. and hope time will heal us all..

[Sky1251]

Hello Withdrawalsucks,

 

I totally understand how someday you feel 90% with just the next starting at square one (or nearly) again. Its just horrible yes... Personally i dont dare to try any psy drug again even my symptoms are really bad.

 

Im sorry you couldnt take any fish oil, vitamins, nor herbs. I hope you can soon. Morning anxiety is so draining!!

 

Atleast we are not alone in this fight. But many times people, like my family or friends, who hasnt been through this just don't quite get it even if they wanted to.

 

Wish you heal soon. BE STRONG!!!