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jen84: Effexor withdrawal

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jen84

Hi there,

 

I have been reading quite a few topics on this website, and would like to see if anyone has suggestions for my situation.

 

I was put on effexor and wellbutrin over 5 years ago. I am not exactly sure of the exact time length I have been on it, and what doses I have tried, but the past few years I have been on 150mg of effexor and 150 mg of wellbutrin. My dr and I decided I can come off the effexor on a tapered schedule. Basically I was tapered from 150 to 75 to 37.5 to nothing in just over a month or there abouts. I didnt keep a track of the dates, which I probably should have.

 

The tapering was ok, I didnt really notice anything happening. Then when I went from 37.5 to nothing, it really hit me. I had all the discussed symptoms and was a mess. I think July 25 was my last day on effexor. In August I think I had two or three good days, and I use the term good loosely here. September I had about 10 good days, October, is only at 8 good days so far. These day are not all in a row, they are very sporadic.

 

I recently started a new job, but it only goes for another month. That has me really stressed out, as I have no savings to fall back on and no job lined up yet. My job I am currently at is good though, it has me outside in the forest, getting lots of exercise and lots of fresh air.

 

Since about October 11, I have been having these crazy crying fits. I just cry, and cry. When I am not crying, I feel ok, but then I start crying hours later.

 

I did go to the walk in clinic, as I cannot get into see my fam dr with my work schedule, and the dr at the walk in suggested I try doubling my wellbutrin either every day, or I could double it up every second day. He said this will still take a month before I start feeling any better, if I do. This morning, out of desperation, I took a second pill and I will continue with this, unless someone has another suggestion... Does anyone have any experience with this?

 

When I have a good day, I still have a tightness in my chest, and I know I am so close to tears, but I am able to ward them off. I find I have to keep myself super busy to not cry, or think, as htinking leads to tears. Today is another rough day, lots of crying already.

 

I do not want to go back on effexor, as my mind has never felt so crisp and clear. I feel unfogged and alert, I do not remember ever feeling like this. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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jen84

Hi there,

 

I have been reading quite a few topics on this website, and would like to see if anyone has suggestions for my situation.

 

I was put on effexor and wellbutrin over 5 years ago. I am not exactly sure of the exact time length I have been on it, and what doses I have tried, but the past few years I have been on 150mg of effexor and 150 mg of wellbutrin. My dr and I decided I can come off the effexor on a tapered schedule. Basically I was tapered from 150 to 75 to 37.5 to nothing in just over a month or there abouts. I didnt keep a track of the dates, which I probably should have.

 

The tapering was ok, I didnt really notice anything happening. Then when I went from 37.5 to nothing, it really hit me. I had all the discussed symptoms and was a mess. I think July 25 was my last day on effexor. In August I think I had two or three good days, and I use the term good loosely here. September I had about 10 good days, October, is only at 8 good days so far. These day are not all in a row, they are very sporadic.

 

I recently started a new job, but it only goes for another month. That has me really stressed out, as I have no savings to fall back on and no job lined up yet. My job I am currently at is good though, it has me outside in the forest, getting lots of exercise and lots of fresh air.

 

Since about October 11, I have been having these crazy crying fits. I just cry, and cry. When I am not crying, I feel ok, but then I start crying hours later.

 

I did go to the walk in clinic, as I cannot get into see my fam dr with my work schedule, and the dr at the walk in suggested I try doubling my wellbutrin either every day, or I could double it up every second day. He said this will still take a month before I start feeling any better, if I do. This morning, out of desperation, I took a second pill and I will continue with this, unless someone has another suggestion... Does anyone have any experience with this?

 

When I have a good day, I still have a tightness in my chest, and I know I am so close to tears, but I am able to ward them off. I find I have to keep myself super busy to not cry, or think, as htinking leads to tears. Today is another rough day, lots of crying already.

 

I do not want to go back on effexor, as my mind has never felt so crisp and clear. I feel unfogged and alert, I do not remember ever feeling like this. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

I did also post this in the symptoms and self-care section, I didnt see this introduction part... 

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Altostrata

Welcome, jen.

 

I merged your topics.

 

You are experiencing the waves and windows of prolonged withdrawal syndrome The Windows and Waves Pattern of Recovery

 

Reinstating a very small amount of Effexor XR, such as 5 beads from the capsule, might alleviate withdrawal syndrome without the side effects you experienced before, see About reinstating and stabilizing to stop withdrawal symptoms

 

You can taper off this very small amount some time later.

 

It is unlikely increasing Wellbutrin will help, particularly if you do it every other day. Your nervous system needs stability now, not to experience drug changes constantly. I would avoid increasing Wellbutrin, it is activating, it could make you anxious or disrupt your sleep.

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jen84

thanks for replying altostrata... This is such an awful feeling. I can go for hours without one tear or fret, but then wham, it hits me and the tears and the panic start right up again. 

 

I do not have any effexor left, I guess I should go to the walk in clinic and get some... what dose should I ask for?

 

If I start taking the 5 beads, how long, do you think, it will take before I start feeling any improvement? What will the side effect of going back on this small amount be? I am desperate right now, and would like to try this, I am just not sure when I can get the pills.

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jen84

I actually just found one pill of the 150mg... should I start it tonight or wait till the morning?

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jen84

another question about the prolonged withdrawal syndrome... I had a really good couple of weeks about three weeks ago. It was just over 2 weeks of good ole happiness. I do not ever remember being so happy. I am holding onto that for hope. I want that back. Will I experience that again, even after I re-introduce even 5 granules?

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mammaP

Hi Jen, if you are going to the clinic for more pills it would be much better if you could ask for 

venlafaxine liquid suspension. It will be much, much easier to taper than the beads.

At low doses it is impossible to make tiny cuts, they vary depending on manufacturer but

the granules in my capsules are 5 beads to 1mg. It is impossible to make a 10% cut because 

I can only cut by 1 bead, which is too much at once. I did get liquid from my doctor but had an allergic

reaction to one of the other ingredients. 

 

No one can say for definite how you will be on reinstating but many people have found it relieves 

the worst of withdrawal. It certainly helped me within hours, just 5 beads but there have been good

and bad times since. We call this windows and waves, something you need to expect. Some 

people have bad waves, some have what I call  'ripples' .  Reinstating 5 beads was good for me. 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/82-the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-recovery/

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moodyblues78

Hi Jen.

 

Everything you say sounds so very very familiar. Seems like you are one of us ;)

 

I`ve been here for almost a year now and I`m much better. Others are more capable to give help in tapering. I just wanted to tell you that you have found the right place to help you deal with the symptoms and slowly heal. It is most likely going to take some time but you can do it. With some help.

 

Welcome.

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jen84

Thank goodness for the internet, theres no way I could've done this without all my googling and definitely no way I could get through this without help from a forum. My family Dr kind of snickered at me when I asked what the withdrawal would be like.. so I will be phoning around for a new fam dr on Friday. After all the posts and forums I have read, it seems like the dr's are useless and each person really is left to figure it out on their own, I am so greatful for the help from all of you.

 

Last night, I was remembering back to the 13th, I hit a really low low. I cried non stop all day. My poor bf, we had planned to cook a turkey together that weekend, but I just cried and cried. He was left to cook the turkey all alone. I do remember having about 1/2 hr breaks between crying where I would feel a bit better. My bf even took me to emergency because he didnt know what else to do for me. Of course they gave me a prescription for ativan, which i have not filled, and sent me on my way. However, Now when I cry, I cry for maybe a half hr or an hr, but then I have a full hr or two of feeling good. Things are most definitely getting better and the tightness in my chest is gone, except when I get upset. 

 

As for taking the granules, I did find some leftover effexor, so I will not be going to the dr. Unless you all really suggest the liquid form. Is it easy to get? Or is the dr going to look at me like a nut case? How are withdrawal symptoms when one little bead is cut at a time? I am willing to do the beads, but i also can feel myself getting better, I can see the progress being made... although it doesnt feel like it when I am at a low. I am feeling a cloud lift when I am not crying, and feeling rather good. Will these beads mess that up at all? 

 

I will take five granules this morning, I just hope the withdrawal from tapering the beads will be easier than this.

 

Thank you so much to anyone who reads this, and an even bigger thanks to those of you that reply.

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jen84

Moodyblues, I am glad I am one of you, and I am really glad all of my symptoms sound familiar, it makes me feel somewhat "normal". 

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jen84

oh, not sure if this matters or not, but my effexor I was taking was TEVA-VENLAFAXINE XR 150 mg not sure if that makes a difference or not. Does anyone know how many mg each little granule is? 

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Hudgens

For Effexor XR, each bead is about .25mgs.

The problem with bead counting is that one bead is way too high a dose to

step off from. If you can get liquid Effexor in Canada, do it.

We don't have that here, but it would've made things so much easier for me.

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mammaP

You need to empty some capsules and count the beads Jen, different makes have beads of different sizes.

Count the beads from 3 capsules and compare them to get an average. Then you can work out how many

there are per mg.  There is a topic on counting beads here. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1461-counting-beads-in-a-capsule-versus-weighing/

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Altostrata

There is no liquid Effexor XR.

 

While tapering by counting beads, be sure to always get the same dosage capsule from the same manufacturer throughout the process.

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jen84

I took five beads from my 150mg pill this morning, I had such a good day, very little anxiety, and I mean very little. It lasted only a minute or two, and it was barely noticeable. I dont know if I am in a window, or if this good day was from the 5 beads. Last night it felt like I was entering into a window. i just have a few more questions about taking the beads...

 

Should I continue with the 5 beads from now on, even though I had such a good day? Should I wait this window out and see how the next wave is? It would make sense to continue with the 5 beads, so that I am more stable for the next wave. 

 

People keep mentioning how hard it is to decrease even 1 bead, do you have any suggestions about this, I would imagine that since you are admin you have seen this lots of times.

 

Thanks again everyone.

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Petunia
Should I continue with the 5 beads from now on, even though I had such a good day? Should I wait this window out and see how the next wave is? It would make sense to continue with the 5 beads, so that I am more stable for the next wave. 

 

People keep mentioning how hard it is to decrease even 1 bead, do you have any suggestions about this, I would imagine that since you are admin you have seen this lots of times.

 

 

Hi jen84,

 

Its difficult to say if your good day was a result of reinstating or a window, but regardless, please do continue taking the 5 beads at the same time every day for at least 4 weeks before thinking about reducing, this way your nervous system will have enough time to stabilize.  It may take longer than 4 weeks, but this is the minimum we recommend.  Please read through this link again:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to stop withdrawal symptoms

 

If you find you have problems with reducing one bead at a time, you may wish to switch to regular Effexor and make a liquid from it so you may reduce by fractions of a milligram.

 

How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

 

Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature.  Putting a short version of your drug history in your signature helps people understand your context, it appears below each of your posts.  Here are instructions for how to do it:

 

http://survivinganti...your-signature/

 

Petu.

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jen84

I shall take another 5 beads today, and hopefully have a day like I had yesterday... fingers crossed.

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mammaP

There is no liquid Effexor XR.

 

While tapering by counting beads, be sure to always get the same dosage capsule from the same manufacturer throughout the process.

Venlafaxine liquid is available in the UK Alto, would that be ok for Jen  if it is available in Canada ? 

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jen84

well I had another good day today. I did have tightness in my chest for most of the day, but it wasn't too bad... I was able to breathe through the worst of it.

 

I have read, and re-read the About reinstating and stabilizing to stop withdrawal symptoms and I did not really find any information as to what to expect when I start tapering the beads... is it anything like coming off the full doses? Is there another page i can check out? Or can someone tell me a bit more about this? I am quite nervous about what to expect. 

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jen84

I am reading "tips for tapering off effexor", and I am getting really concerned about what I am doing. I know 5 beads is a small amount, if I am tapering down by one bead every month, then I would still have 5 months before getting off of it again, and going through more w/d. My concern is that since I am already 3 months into this, my wd symptoms could be much better in 5 months, and perhaps I am delaying the inevitable, if I am going to be experiencing w/d symptoms when I come down from the last bead anyways. 

 

If it is better to stay on the 5 granules, I will continue with them. I am just feeling really lost in this whole thing, and really do not know what to do. I have not been able to find anything about what happens when a person comes down from the last granule.

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jen84

I forgot to mention... I have no idea what the expiry date is on the effexor I am now taking. I found one pill from probably the last year, and have a bottle of approx 10 pills from the past year or year and a half... the bottle spent some time in my car as I was travelling on weekends, and forgot them in there for a couple weeks. Are they still ok?

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mammaP

Those pills will be fine Jen, they all have a use by date but research and tests have shown that they are 

useable for decades after the sell by date. The research was carried out by the US military because 

they faced having to destroy and replace millions of $ worth of medications. There are links to the articles

in the media sections. 

 

If you can stabilise on the 5 beads it has to be better than this. I have the same problem and was stuck on

4 beads for over a year because every time I tried to drop one bead I got withdrawal symptoms. I had 

venlafaxine liquid but had an allergic reaction to it. I don't know if it is available in Canada but you could ask 

at your pharmacy, then get a prescription from your doctor. If it is not available you might be able to get 

immediate release tablets and make a liquid. They are not available here now, only XR capsules so I cant

use that method.  I devised my own method that seems to be working for me. 

 

I tip a capsule into a flat clear plastic container so the beads are all spread out. Place it on a dark surface so

they are easy to see. I pick out the largest beads, every day. I have a magnifying glass, a flat one like a frame,

so it is easier to see the large ones.  By taking out the biggest, gradually they become smaller. When I get to the

end of them they will be very tiny. When I open the next capsule I will reduce to 2 beads from 3.  It is in no way 

perfect but seems to be working for me. I don't care how long it takes if I am stable! 

 

In your case though, I would just take the 5 beads for a while until you have stabilised, or try to get the tablets or

liquid from somewhere. 

 

I have to add for anyone else reading this, that this method is not suitable for higher doses than the last 4/5 beads! 

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jen84

Hello everyone. Well this is my one week update since starting the 5 granules of effexor.

 

I'm not sure if it is the effexor, or a window, but man, I sure am feeling much better. I still get anxiety in my chest, but it is managable. I am sure the effexor has made this much easier to deal with. I will give the 5 granules 3 more weeks, then go down to 4, hopefully all goes smooth. I have only cried a handful of times in the past 7 days, and it only lasts for a few minutes. I dont think I have had any symptoms from going back on the effexor, so all is good. 

 

I will come back in another week with my next update.

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Altostrata

Good to hear, jen. Being that it's been so long you stopped Effexor, I might give your nervous system several months to accommodate before making any changes. Please be sure to take your beads at the same time every day and do not skip doses.

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jen84

Thanks for the suggestion Alto, I will give the 5 beads another month or two. This week has been alright. Quite a bit has happened, but I have been able to manage for the most part. I broke it off with my boyfriend yesterday, Im a bit upset with my decision, but my gut tells me it was the right thing to do. He hasnt really been there for me through this whole effexor thing. We live 3 hrs apart from eachother, and I couldnt even call him as he didnt like talking on the phone. We only saw eachother on weekends, and it was getting to be too much with travelling etc. He has a dog too, and the dog hair was really gross. I know little things are setting me off right now, but I need to take some time for myself, I need to figure my emotions out. I am feeling pretty overwhelmed when I stop and think about things, but that is why I keep myself occupied and busy.

 

Anyways, that has been my weekend, other than that, the week was good, not too much anxiety, just a bit on Thursday, but it was gone in a few hours. Im still not sure what will happen for work, I have asked to stay on for the winter season, so I am waiting for a reply on that. My mood has been quite stable, a few tears here and there, but nothing at all like it was.

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Altostrata

This is a good sign. Too bad the boyfriend wasn't a help. You need to take care of yourself.

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jen84

its been a really rough day... so much crying. Not sure if its because of the boyfriend, or because i am in a wave, probably a mix of both. If its a wave, I hope it doesnt last long. I just really hope I made the right decision by breaking it off with him.

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jen84

Hey everyone. Here is my weekly update. Had a pretty good week last week. Not much anxiety or tightness in the chest. However, this weekend was a bit rough. I think weekends are harder for me because I have all the time in the world to think and stress over my issues. It is a relief not having a boyfriend right now though, I can just be me and let myself cry when I want and not have to worry about scaring him off. I do miss him, but I know he wasnt the right dude for me, and I want to get myself better before bringing anyone into my life. 

 

My anxiety is not as bad as it was, but it is still a really gross feeling. Is this feeling normal? I am still taking the 5 beads of effexor every day at the same time, as well as the supplements.

 

I know things are getting better, and I can notice a difference when I think back, but its really frustrating feeling so anxious and overwhelmed. if it gets really bad I have an epsom salt bath with essential oil drops in the water just before bed, and that seems to really relax me... But I really dont like wasting so much water... does anyone have any other calming strategies that they have used or have heard about? 

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jen84

One more question, even after reintroducing just 5 beads, I have noticed my brain is not as crisp as it was when I was completely off everything... is this normal even though I am taking such a small amount? 

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Petunia

Hi Jen,

Thank you for the update, you are doing really well since your reinstatement, its early days and stabilization will happen in a windows and waves kind of pattern.  Waves of symptoms, then periods of feeling better are perfectly normal as your nervous system adjusts to being back on a small dose of the medication.  A small amount can have a big effect, especially in a NS already sensitized, so don't worry about a little brain fog, its not surprising.

 

if it gets really bad I have an epsom salt bath with essential oil drops in the water just before bed, and that seems to really relax me... But I really dont like wasting so much water... does anyone have any other calming strategies that they have used or have heard about? 

 

Magnesium, which you are already taking is calming, actually, that's the ingredient in the epsom salt which contributes most of its calming effect, it works physically on muscle tissue.  I don't know what kind, or how much magnesium you are taking, perhaps you could look at that.  Some people use a powder or liquid form and sip it for its calming effect. You can also get magnesium oil spray, which isn't actually an oil, but you do spray it on your body and its absorbed through your skin, just like the epsom salt in the bath. See:

Magnesium, Nature's Calcium Channel Blocker

 

Have a look through this link for more ideas:

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms 

If you still wanted to use epsom salt and essential oils, you could use them in a foot bath to save water.

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jen84

Hi Jen,

Thank you for the update, you are doing really well since your reinstatement, its early days and stabilization will happen in a windows and waves kind of pattern.  Waves of symptoms, then periods of feeling better are perfectly normal as your nervous system adjusts to being back on a small dose of the medication.  A small amount can have a big effect, especially in a NS already sensitized, so don't worry about a little brain fog, its not surprising.

 

if it gets really bad I have an epsom salt bath with essential oil drops in the water just before bed, and that seems to really relax me... But I really dont like wasting so much water... does anyone have any other calming strategies that they have used or have heard about? 

 

Magnesium, which you are already taking is calming, actually, that's the ingredient in the epsom salt which contributes most of its calming effect, it works physically on muscle tissue.  I don't know what kind, or how much magnesium you are taking, perhaps you could look at that.  Some people use a powder or liquid form and sip it for its calming effect. You can also get magnesium oil spray, which isn't actually an oil, but you do spray it on your body and its absorbed through your skin, just like the epsom salt in the bath. See:

Magnesium, Nature's Calcium Channel Blocker

 

Have a look through this link for more ideas:

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms 

If you still wanted to use epsom salt and essential oils, you could use them in a foot bath to save water.

Thanks for replying Petu. I am taking 150mg of magnesium Citrate... I am going to look for it in liquid form, as it would be nice to have something hot to drink at night before bed... Good to know about the oil spray, I will also look for some of that. 

 

I know I am getting better, I can feel it. I just have to remember back to thanksgiving to remind myself of how far I have come. 

 

One of my biggest anxiety contributors is work... I was told today by the project manager that I will probably have work for some of the winter season, if not all of it.  The winter work is for a very picky contractor, so my company only puts the most efficient people on those sites, so it was a really good feeling being recognized for my work, even though I have only been there 2 months. Today was the first snow day... we were working in 6" of snow, which isnt much at all, but if not prepared for it, like today, it really sucks. The snow was falling down the back of my neck from the branches, my hands were freezing, and my jacket was frozen stiff. I will get some more gear tomorrow so I am more prepared and see how that goes. It was a huge boost in my confidence today though.

 

This work stuff is usually something I would talk to with my boyfriend, but since I dont have one anymore, I guess all of you are like my partner now... haha.

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jen84

I have a question for you all... The past few days I have had anxiety and tightness in my chest... its not bad, but its not good. I can manage it, but its scary. I am wondering if this is a normal feeling even though I am back on a small dose of effexor? It is my understanding that the small dose is to help manage these symptoms, not fully cover them up... is my understanding right? Is it normal to be feeling this right now? I will give the 5 beads another month or two, but how will I know when I am ready to start tapering again? 

 

Thanks Y'all!

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mammaP

Hi Jen, well done with the job, it must be a real boost to know they see you as one of the most capable

staff members. I'm not a doctor and don't have any medical trainin g whatsoever so can't offer any suggestions

about the chest tightness but the anxiety is quite normal. Hopefully it will get better and better as time goes by. 

You've come a long way from when you joined us and it's brilliant that you are feeling so much better. You will

know when you are ready to start tapering, but it could take a few months. Enjoy the good days while you are

stabilising, there is no rush and you will get there in the end. 

 

We are happy to be your 'partner'   :)

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Rhiannon

I have a question for you all... The past few days I have had anxiety and tightness in my chest... its not bad, but its not good. I can manage it, but its scary. I am wondering if this is a normal feeling even though I am back on a small dose of effexor? It is my understanding that the small dose is to help manage these symptoms, not fully cover them up... is my understanding right? Is it normal to be feeling this right now? I will give the 5 beads another month or two, but how will I know when I am ready to start tapering again? 

 

Thanks Y'all!

 

Yes, it's completely normal to continue to have the waves and windows pattern (getting worse then better then worse then better) at this point, and in fact throughout the recovery process. 

 

Overall, though, you are doing very well with the 5 bead reinstatement. People who have as good a response as you have had seem to do quite well overall as long as they keep it small and slow. I think you're going to be fine, although it's going to be a longer process than you might like. Hang in there and don't change anything yet.

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jen84

Thank you MammaP and Rhi for the responses. I am so relieved that the wave and window stuff is normal even after reinstatement. I think the tightness in the chest is my anxiety, they seem to both happen at the same time. I remember a few weeks back, or maybe even a few months ago, when I had the tightness for days on end, with no relief... it only seems to last a few hours at the most now. I am in no hurry to get off the 5 granules, but i do worry about coming off this again... Does anyone know what the side effects are like when going from one granule to none? I know its a long ways away, but im curious and nervous.  

 

Today was a mixed day... I had a really good work day, was super duper productive, it was beautiful weather, -10 with sunshine and blue sky, and I was working with a really good coworker. I still had tightness and anxiety in my chest though. 

 

As for work, I received an email yesterday stating that my last day will likely be next friday, the 21st. That was probably why my chest was tight today. I am stressed out about it, but I am trying not to let it get to me. Honestly, im not sure I really want to work in the bush in the winter. It is still nice to know that my project manager thinks I am capable enough for the picky contractor... And now to find work... 

 

MammaP are you still taking the 2 beads? what kind of symptoms do you experience when you taper? When do you plan on going down to 1 bead?

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Martin

I know that tightness in the chest feeling as anxiety - I had it too when I stopped from 9 mg to no mg and then reinstated - and then I had it for a few days. It is most definately related to withdrawal. If I weren't taking lyrica in conjunction I probably would still be experiencing it. 

 

Small miligrams of effexor shouldn't be underestimated it seems since there's quite a few people around here still trying to quit from that point. 

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