jen84: Effexor withdrawal

[jen84]

 

I am nearly at the 4 week mark of my 10.4mg updose. Overall i have improved. I've had a few windows of complete bliss but recently I've been feeling not good but not bad either, just very blah. I don't find much enjoyment in things i used to love and i don't really feel that love emotion when in a wave. I am definitely improving, but not where i want to be. It feels like a blanket is draped over me right now and i am fumbling through to find the edges amd enter a window. I know what I am feeling is not my normal but I also don't know what my normal is on this dose. I would like to stabilize amd have a very long hold so i can get on with my life and figure out my thoughts. If my relationship thoughts are indeed related to wd, I need to get over them, as we would like to start the family planning process. If my thoughts aren't wd related, I need to move on with my life. Both instances require stability and again, I'm not sure if i will find it at this dose. 

For about the past week I've been using guided meditations, mostly at bed time but occasionally throughout thr day. I will continue using these, as i think I can feel they helping. They definitely arent harming me. 

 

I've tried CBD oil 4 times now, not all in a row, but randomly over the past week. I don't think it is really doing anything for me, but i am also only taking a small amount of 2 drops.

 

I've been reading about  low dose naltrexone (LDN), and even read on a psychiatrists web page (Dr.mark Shukhman) that it can help alleviate ruminating and obsessing thoughts. I've read through the LDN page on this site and it seems that a handful of ppl have tried it, some with really good results, others not so good. Anyone have thoughts on trying this to help ease my mind?  

 

I have appointments to meet 2 new counsellors this week. I've told them in advance about what I'm going through so i hope they are a bit more open to what I'm going through than my last counsellor was. 

[jen84]

Ill be seeing my family dr in a few hours to get my wellbutrin prescription refilled, and will be asking about LDN (low dose natrexone) to help my anxiety and brain fog.

 

I've met with 2 counsellors now. One is very warm and friendly, she has daughters near my age, so I feel very comfortable with her. She offers ACT and DBT therapy. The other therapist is a bit cold and not super friendly, and her focus is EMDR. Im intrigued by the EMDR, but I dont know if it would be too stimulating for me.

[wantrelief]

Hi Jen - I've been seeing a therapist to work on DBT skills and have found it really helpful.  I think ACT would be great too (I think there is a lot of crossover). My therapist has been really good at tailoring the skills to what I am going through with withdrawal.  I did try EMDR a long time ago before drugs and did not get anything from it but I did not like the therapist and am not sure how competent he was.  I have read that it can be hard to deal with trauma during withdrawal and I believe EMDR is more focused on that type of stuff.  Whichever route you take, I hope you find it helpful!

[jen84]

Hi Wantrelief, thanks for your feedback about therapy. Thats good to know you didn't find the EMDR very helpful, I didn't have a very good but feeling about it, and from what I've read on here some ppl have found it to be a bit much while in w/d. I think ill give it a miss and go with the DBT therapy. I'm glad you are finding it useful. Are you still seeing your therapist?

[wantrelief]

I hope you find DBT helpful, Jen.  I am still seeing the DBT therapist but as regularly as I was.  I see a different therapist regularly who works in the same office (she has more of a CBT focus) and this was just a temporary thing so that I could learn the DBT specific skills.  I hope I am making sense....all of these acronyms start getting confusing!  Anyway, I hope you have a good experience.

[jen84]

Hi WR, I am so happy to hear that you're benefitting from DBT and CBT, i look forward to having more of these sessions.

 

So far, this week has been a "me" week, a much needed "me" week... I feel selfish, but I need to get this under control.

 

The Happiness Trap book just came in the mail today and i am excited to start reading it. 

 

This morning i made a turmeric golden milk drink and it helped to lift me out of brain fog, which has provided some relief. I am still having a racing mind and not so pleasant of thoughts though so I must still be in w/d. I also had an acupuncture apt this morning, im not sure if it helped anything, but i dont think it hurt anything. 

 

I am wanting to stabilize, and have a very long hold soon, I need a break from this craziness. I am going to give this dose a few more weeks to see if i settle anymore. If im going to have a long hold though i would like to find a dose that only gives the minimum symptoms. In a few weeks time should i start decreasing slowly to see if I find any relief at lower doses or just wait this out? I have a feeling i won't find much more relief than what im currently at, but I don't really know. I am feeling maybe 60% of my regular self, i would like to feel a little better if I'm going to hold.

 

 

[btdt]

Jen check this link

https://pharmacysolutionsonline.com/drug-induced-nutrient-depletion.php

 

you never know where you are going to find healing sometimes it is in food or vitamins... some of these drugs deplete nutrients getting the right nutrients could help ... not sure if this will show up can't hurt to know this either...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073NCFNLX/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ref_=cm_sw_r_kb_dp_3v7Gzb7N0R25M&linkCode=sl1&tag=hormonesmatte-20&linkId=f3697cc9070aef7f10aa6c43be829880

[jen84]

 

 

I just watched this video, I saw mentioned in the music section... Wow, it really helped to relax me. Just putting it here for future reference.

[jen84]

After a month of my updose to 10.4 I was feeling like I had reached my normal, it was a constant feeling of feeling like blah, feeling like garbage really. I wasn't experiencing waves and windows, or if i was they werent that noticeable.

 

3 days ago I dropped 2.5% to start the Brass monkey taper, and I am on night 2 of no sleep. I tried taking 1.5mg of melatonin tonight but I don't think it did anything, as i am wide awake at 1:30am. 

 

Overall I think I'm doing ok, but I'm not really sure. Before i did this last drop my anxiety was always there, mostly in my thoughts but could also feel it somewhat in my chest. Since my drop I've been feeling it more in my chest, and my mind is a bit more racy than before, and im not sleeping.

 

I am actually feeling defeated. I thought a drop would bring a bit of relief. I am so tired of feeling like garbage. I need to get on with my life, but my time is so consumed with how im feeling that I can't even think straight. How am i supposed to carry on a relationship when i can't feel anything other than anxiety? I dont feel love anymore, I don't feel that warmth for life, I just feel sad and depressed and I feel so trapped, suffocated, by wellbutrin. 

 

I am almost certain that the wellbutrin is causing most of my anxiety, except the past 3 days, as i am well and truly in w/d. At what point does someone call it quits trying to come off these drugs and go on something else to help ease anxiety? I don't know how much longer I can go through this, this is so painful. I just want to feel emotion again, emotions other than sadness and anxiety. I am meditating, exercising, eating healthy, doing yoga, seeing a therapist and taking magnesium... I don't know what else I can do.

 

I'm going to give this dose a few more days to see if it settles and see if my sleep returns. Has anyone gone on other meds to help reduce anxiety and clear brain fog? Or can I cross over to a different drug? I know, you don't recommend this, but I would rather live life than feel this way. 

[ChessieCat]

It is best not to make more than 1 change at a time, otherwise if issues arise you won't know what is causing them.  Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

 

26 minutes ago, jen84 said:

I tried taking 1.5mg of melatonin tonight but I don't think it did anything, as i am wide awake at 1:30am. 

 

On 4/7/2011 at 11:26 AM, Altostrata said:

 

Here's how to re-establish your sleep cycle with melatonin:

- Start with 0.25mg-0.50mg melatonin for 3-4 days. 

- Take at the same time, nightfall (but, given that it's summer, not later than 8 p.m.), every night.

- If needed, gradually increase by .25mg for 3-4 days at a time.

- Use the lowest effective dose.

- Try to turn lights off or keep lights low after sundown. Your bedroom should be quiet and dark. Darkness triggers natural melatonin production. Artificial lighting, including staring into the computer, can give the wrong signal to your pineal gland. STAY OFF THE COMPUTER AT NIGHT.

- Keep to a very regular schedule -- this is what your circadian rhythm needs.

- Do NOT take melatonin regularly at any time but nightfall or you might scramble your sleep-wake cycle.

 

 

Please keep daily symptoms notes on paper for the next 3 days and post them here in your Introduction topic so the mods can assess your situation.

 

 

Edited January 15, 2019 by ChessieCat

[jen84]

Thanks for the reply ChessieCat. I will keep track of my symptoms over the next few days. 

 

Has anyone ever crossed over to Prozac from wellbutrin? Could this potentially be an option for me? 

[jen84]

Has anyone crossed over to Prozac from wellbutrin? Is this even possible? Is there a chance it would help to ease 24/7 anxiety and my racing mind?

[jen84]

Can I updose back to the 10.4mg tonight? I don't think this is worth suffering through. The anxiety is almost through the roof.

 

I've been reading through the Prozac bridging page and wonder if this is an option for me?

[Altostrata]

jen, does the information in your signature from Jan 25, 2017 forward refer to Wellbutrin? Please update your signature and specify the drug.

 

9 hours ago, jen84 said:

I am almost certain that the wellbutrin is causing most of my anxiety, except the past 3 days, as i am well and truly in w/d. At what point does someone call it quits trying to come off these drugs and go on something else to help ease anxiety? I don't know how much longer I can go through this, this is so painful. I just want to feel emotion again, emotions other than sadness and anxiety. I am meditating, exercising, eating healthy, doing yoga, seeing a therapist and taking magnesium... I don't know what else I can do.

 

It's very possible Wellbutrin is causing side effects. What times of day do you take your drugs? What kind of Wellbutrin tablet are you splitting, XR, SR, or IR?

 

I haven't heard of Prozac assisting bridging off Wellbutrin, they're very different drugs.

[Altostrata]

jen, we need this information.

 

On 11/5/2018 at 10:45 AM, Altostrata said:

Hi, jen.

 

What times of day do you take your drugs, and their dosages? (When you have a chance, please add the drug names to the events in your signature. Please include Effexor.)

 

Are your symptoms worse at some times of day than others? What is your daily symptom pattern? Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. Use a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

 

Post those daily notes in this topic.

[jen84]

Hi @Altostrata, yes my signature from Jan 25 2017 is all wellbutrin related. 

 

 I take wellbutrin twice a day, at 6:30am and 6:30pm. I split my dose in half, so on 10.4mg of wellbutrin, I take 5.2mg in the morning and 5.2mg at night. I also take 25mg of magnesium at the same times as wellbutrin. These are the only supplememts I am taking, minus the melatonin last night.

 

I did increase my dose back to 5.2mg this morning, it was way too intense at 5.07. The anxiety, headache, racing thoughts, almost feeling like I was crawling in my skin, very emotional in a depressive way. Unable to find words to talk and a very sore chest from anxiety.  I got 3 hours of sleep last night and about 4 hours the night before. This was not ok for me as I need to be able to function for work, so I decided to updose.

 

I felt a bit better within a half hour of increasing from 5.07 to 5.2 and a few hours later my headache somewhat subsided. My chest pain is mostly gone as well. Tonight I will post my daily symptoms for today.

 

Mornings are usually the worst for me, as I wake up with pretty heavy anxiety, almost unable to move, frozen in fear. This usually subsides within a few hours and I have some form of anxiety for the rest of the day. This morning anxiety seems to be fairly new, like within the past 6 months or so. The anxiety doesnt really subside at all throughout the day, it's always there, it just gets less worse after a few hours in the morning. 

 

While on 10.4mg I felt very fogged down and like I was living in a cloud. I dont really feel emotion, not the good emotions anyways. I want to move on with my life, but I dont know how to do that while feeling like this.

 

If I cant bridge Prozac, is there another option? Could I do effexor seeing as how I was already on that one with the wellbutrin?

[Altostrata]

1 hour ago, jen84 said:

I felt a bit better within a half hour of increasing from 5.07 to 5.2 and a few hours later my headache somewhat subsided. My chest pain is mostly gone as well. Tonight I will post my daily symptoms for today.

 

If you stay at 5.2mg for a couple of months, you might be able to reduce again. Sometimes you need to take a break from reducing the drug and let your nervous system settle.

 

A lot of people find fish oil and magnesium supplements helpful, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

Try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

 

Magnesium is best taken in small amounts throughout the day.

 

[jen84]

49 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

If you stay at 5.2mg for a couple of months, you might be able to reduce again. Sometimes you need to take a break from reducing the drug and let your nervous system settle.

I held at 11.2mg for 4 months before dropping to 10mg. I was on 10mg for a month when the w/d hit hard and I had to updose to 10.4mg. 

 

Fish oil puts me on edge, I tried it once and didn't like how it made me feel. I can try again in a few days. I take magnesium, but i don't think it does anything, but its not harming me so I'll continue.

 

How on earth am I supposed to get off this stuff if I can't taper? I feel so trapped, and so far, it seems like holding is my only option. What do i do After months of holding? How on earth will I ever be able to come off this stuff?

[ChessieCat]

Many members find that the lower their dose gets the slower they need to go, by reducing less and/or holding for longer.  Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves

 

You might want to consider tapering by less than 10%.

 

Brass Monkey Slide

[jen84]

@ChessieCat, I just tried the Brass monkey slide, i just dropped 2.5% a few days ago and had to updose due to very high anxiety.

 

I felt I had stabilized and was at my normal on 10.4, that's why I tried the 2.5% reduction. I've held for 4 months before, just to updose a month after dropping. I had high hopes for the Brass monkey drop, but now I don't know what ill do. 

 

Surely there has to be a drug I can bridge over to?

 

Can I go back on Effexor? 

[ChessieCat]

You could try smaller reductions.  10% every 4 weeks is a guideline not a rule.

 

Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases

Rhi's "Start Small, Listen to Your Body" Taper Plan

[Altostrata]

You're extraordinarily sensitive to Wellbutrin, jen. 10.4mg is  very small dose, as Wellbutrin is usually dosed in the hundreds of milligrams.

 

I don't think there's any track record of drugs to bridge off Wellbutrin because people don't often need them.

 

What was your reaction to Effexor? It's not very close to Wellbutrin and it's hard to go off so I'm not sure if that's a good choice for bridging. All the SNRIs (Effexor, Cymbalta, Pristiq) are hard to taper.

 

Have you ever tried Prozac? What effect did it have on you?

 

How about the Brassmonkey Slide with 1% reductions?

[jen84]

Hi @Altostrata, 

 

I don't think I've ever been on Prozac, I just saw on this forum that people were using it to bridge from other drugs and wondered if it would work for wellbutrin.

 

It's too bad i didnt keep a daily personal journal while coming off effexor. I know I was very anxious coming off that as well, but once I stabilized after the cold turkey I don't remember it being as bad as this, but maybe i was... I know i suffered hard, but I dont remember the timeline.

 

Would it work if i reinstated only 4 beads? I dont want to go on effexor, as I worked 2 years to come off it, but something has to be better than this.

 

I think I would prefer to try Prozac over effexor, but I dont really know Prozac. 

 

I can try the 1%taper, I am just feeling defeated though. I would prefer to try bridging, I think? I'm nervous about this entire process. 

 

I was googling last night, and read from a few people that they actually bridged to Prozac from wellbutrin. This was a pregnancy forum, but still, someone, somewhere, has tried it. 

[Altostrata]

Since you're already using a liquid. teeny-tiny reductions might work for you. I am optimistic you can taper off Wellbutrin directly, but you may need to take breaks from tapering occasionally. This is not unusual.

[jen84]

50 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Since you're already using a liquid. teeny-tiny reductions might work for you. I am optimistic you can taper off Wellbutrin directly, but you may need to take breaks from tapering occasionally. This is not unusual.

Honestly, I know this sounds like a rash decision, but i think I would rather try bridging. 

 

I don't feel myself on wellbutrin, even after long holds... The anxiety is relentless and there's not much I can do to ease it. 

 

That Last 2.5% drop was brutal, and I honestly don't see a 1% drop going any better.

 

I saw a post where it mentioned that 348.5mg of bupropian is equivalent to 40mg of Prozac. If this is the case and my math is right, I think I would only need less than 2mg of Prozac to bridge over to. 

 

I see my therapist tomorrow, and I can book in to see my family dr. 

 

I feel trapped and I honestly don't think a 1% taper is going to be any better. 

[Altostrata]

On 1/15/2019 at 5:03 PM, jen84 said:

I held at 11.2mg for 4 months before dropping to 10mg. I was on 10mg for a month when the w/d hit hard and I had to updose to 10.4mg. 

 

jen, I skimmed your entire topic going back to 2014 and I noted this: You have been fairly constantly tapering either Effexor or Wellbutrin.

 

Since last fall, while tapering Wellbutrin you've had withdrawal symptoms intermittently. There are daily notes that show your symptoms decreasing after each of your two doses of Wellbutrin every day. This indicates too-fast tapering rather than an adverse reaction to Wellbutrin.

 

Your history shows you've pushed through intermittent withdrawal symptoms. Lately, you've found withdrawal symptoms are too strong to continue your taper.

 

To me, it would be preferable to hold at 10.4mg Wellbutrin for a few months or even updose a bit and hold rather than risk a switch to Prozac. Yes, I see you held at 11.2mg for 4 months, but your nervous system says it wants more of a rest.

 

It's true that no taper method will work for you right now, you're in a zone where your nervous system needs more time to accommodate to a very low level of drugs, the lowest in at least 4 years. Please consider whether your habit of anxiety is pushing you to taper too fast.

[jen84]

Thank you for taking time to read my thread Alto. And thank you for putting this into perspective for me

11 hours ago, Altostrata said:

you're in a zone where your nervous system needs more time to accommodate to a very low level of drugs, the lowest in at least 4 years.

I had never thought of it like this before, and I would hate to throw away 4 years of suffering while in this last push. 

 

I am scared and I am tired of being in my own head. I just want off this darned stuff. That's not happening anytime soon, so I guess I have to work on myself even more. More meditation, yoga, exercise, counselling, eating right... The list goes on.

 

I will hold at this dose for a while longer and see how things go. 

[jen84]

My partner and I have just had a big talk about breaking up. I don't think i can do this anymore. I've tried, oh how I've tried, counselling, meditating, accupuncture, yoga... The list goes on. I cannot find peace with this and i don't know what else to do. I dont feel love, I dont feel attraction and i don't want babies anymore. This makes me so sad, but i just dont know what else I can do. I am so tired of struggling through my thoughts. My thoughts and feelings could be related to meds, but maybe they aren't. If they are caused by the meds, why would i drag this relationship on any longer? I'm clearly not getting any better, and why waste his time any longer if I dont know what is real or not? I am trapped in my head, and i am so lost. He could be my soul mate, but I am blocked from feeling that. Ive analysed and re-analysed and weighed options and I just dont think this is going to get any better. I am tired of obsessing about the relationship and my feelings. I am so tired. I am so broken inside. 

 

I'm going to book in to see a psychiatrist and get another opinion, as I can't keep going the way i am. I am at a time in my life where I need stability, focus, and drive. The thought of us breaking up does provide relief, but makes me so sad and angry with my self. 

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, jen84 said:

I'm going to book in to see a psychiatrist and get another opinion

 

If an additional drug is suggested, please use Drug Interactions Checker as well as research side effects.

[Altostrata]

2 hours ago, jen84 said:

I dont feel love, I dont feel attraction and i don't want babies anymore.

 

jen, some of those emotional patterns can be side effects or withdrawal symptoms (or not), but if you don't want babies, you don't want babies.

 

No amount of psychiatry is going to make a relationship work where one partner very much wants children and the other doesn't. If you're a round peg trying to fit into a square hole relationship-wise, that can be a source of a great deal of stress and possibly some of your symptoms.

 

Please stop tapering while you deal with your relationship problems.

 

If you find a psychiatrist who knows a bean about tapering or withdrawal, please tell us!

[jen84]

 

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

but if you don't want babies, you don't want babies

I used to want children, more than anything. I'd see a baby, and i would almost cry of excitement. It was a feeling inside of me, and I knew that one day, i would like one of my own. Now, I just don't care. I am so frustrated with this, not knowing what is withdrawal or side effects or what my true feelings are. It feels like it's been ages since ive had a window, a proper window, lasting more than 1 day. Even a 1 day window has been few and far between.

 

I am way too scared to taper right now, that's not even on the radar.

 

What about an updose? 

 

I am just so tired of not knowing. I even have dreams about breaking up. Its a non-stop merry-go round of obsessive thinking that I am unable to gain any traction on. I just don't know what else I can do to save the relationship.

[wantrelief]

Hi Jen - I wanted to thank you for your kind message on my thread.  I am so sorry you are struggling at the moment.  It must be so confusing and frustrating to not know what is you and what is an effect from the drug.  I wish I had some sage advice.  I just wanted you to know that I really feel for you and am hoping you can get some stability/clarity soon.   

[Altostrata]

It sounds like your relationship problems go beyond your problems with Effexor, jen. You do not seem to get much understanding from your partner.

 

Given your relationship is causing you a great deal of stress, if I were you, I would not taper at this time, I would stay at 5.2mg. I have no idea what a further updose would do other than cancel out the tapering you've done so far.

[FarmGirlWorks]

On 1/19/2019 at 12:39 PM, jen84 said:

Ive analysed and re-analysed and weighed options and I just dont think this is going to get any better. I am tired of obsessing about the relationship and my feelings.

Hey @jen84, just want to pipe in that I relate. Not with the baby thing (I am 52) but with the break-up vis-a-vis WD. I keep waiting for my feelings to change (and he is too, I think) but they are not and I feel like I am wasting our time, esp at this age. I don't have any wise words just that I get it.

[jen84]

Hi @wantrelief, thanks for your message. This is definitely frustrating and very confusing. 

 

@FarmGirlWorks, I'm sorry you're also struggling with this. I used to know for sure it was just the drugs doing this to me, but I can't tell anymore. This is the worst feeling ever, and I am so sorry you're also experiencing this.

 

This whole process is steering me towards spiritualism, and finding my spirit guides. I know this sounds silly, but I don't know what else to try, and tapping into unknown parts of me seems like the next sensible option.

 

I know I'm depressed, I know I'm not feeling myself, but is that bc of the drugs, or bc I haven't faced something I need to face?

 

My acupuncturist did some ghost points on me at our last visit, it's definitely helped to pull me out of my brain fog. I guess this is why this sucks, is the acupuncture just masking what is going on behinf the scenes from tapering, but I am still experiencing w/d?

 

This is so confusing. 

 

My partner has agreed to attend therapy for some of his issues. I don't know if it'll help us, but it'll definitely help him in the long run. Couple therapy may be next, but I just dont know how much more I can put into this. 

[FarmGirlWorks]

1 hour ago, jen84 said:

This whole process is steering me towards spiritualism, and finding my spirit guides. I know this sounds silly, but I don't know what else to try, and tapping into unknown parts of me seems like the next sensible option.

Does not sound silly at all. I firmly believe in developing our spiritual dimension(s). I am doing it through kundalini because that works for me but realize there are many, many ways to discover one's spirituality.

 

1 hour ago, jen84 said:

My acupuncturist did some ghost points on me at our last visit, it's definitely helped to pull me out of my brain fog. I guess this is why this sucks, is the acupuncture just masking what is going on behinf the scenes from tapering, but I am still experiencing w/d?

 

What are "ghost points"? Sounds cool. Insurance turned over for the year and my first appointment (this year after a three month break) is on Wednesday... cannot wait.