jen84: Effexor withdrawal

[jen84]

@FarmGirlWorks, I am so new to spirituality, i have a lot of learning to do. I am entering into an unknown world and feeling a bit overwhelmed with where to start. I'm going to look into kundalini, it's nice to know what works for other people.

 

The ghost points are located all over the body, they are supposed to release emotional trauma. When she did my front side, I cried for the entire 20 minutes, not over anything in particular, but i think bc I'm so hurt inside. I felt quite woozy afterwards, but my brain fog seems to have lifted. I'm not feeling great by any means, but a bit better than I was as far as anxiety goes.

[jen84]

Do I dare say it? 

 

Last night I had the calmest sleep (no effed up nightmares) I've had in who knows how long. I did wake from one dream, but felt so calm upon waking. This is definitely not the norm.

 

This morning I still woke with anxiety, but I may have entered into a window. I think i even felt love... Or Maybe just less numb. Ugh, this is so confusing.

 

I have a dr apt this morning to book in with a psychiatrist. 

[jen84]

Since Tuesday my anxiety has been almost non-existant and Ive been out of my brain fog. Im still experiencing pretty bad depression and emotional numbness but the anxiety has eased. I don't know if it's bc I finally faced my fears with my partner that my anxiety eased, or if it was going to happen anyway. My therapist told me to try worry time. I save all my worries for a certain time, then let myself worry and worry for 20mins at a certain time every day. Ive been doing that since Tues so that could also be easing my anxiety. It could also be from My last accupuncture appointment.

 

My nightmares have eased up some, and I'm not experiencing as much fear/anxiety when I wake up in the mornings. It's still there, but it's not crippling anymore.

 

It feels like I'm actually starting to stabilize, minus the depression and lack of good emotion.

 

I still don't know what's going to happen between my partner and I, im just glad that were taking it more serious now. Its really hard when I don't feel love or happy emotions. I am so confused and lost and wish there was a flashing sign saying "go" or "stay". But there's not. I just need to make a decision and stick to it. Why is this so difficult?

 

My Dr did recognize that i need to come very slowly off this stuff, so that was good. He also recognized that im suffering from anhedonia. He thought a Prozac bridge was a good option, abd even gave me a script for 5mg Prozac, which I haven't filled yet. I don't plan on bridging Prozac, i just wanted a backup plan in case 1% drops dont work and now I don't have to go back and see him.

[jen84]

For 10 days now, I am still riding this window! Well, I call it a window, but im not convinced its a full window. My anxiety is almost non existant! But I'm still experiencing tight chest (high cortisol?), and some depersonalization. My obsessive thoughts are less pronounced, but i still don't feel good emotion. I do feel less blah, but I don't get the love or happiness feeling. Still blunted i suppose. 

 

Im still not sure whats happening with the relationship. Im at my mom's for 3 days now to get some space away, and to hopefully figure out what to do. 

 

I've been taking L-theanine, and i think it helps with the anxiety that's still lingering around. The acupuncture has also helped. I think the biggest thing was finally addressing the relationship and trying to get real answers instead of just obsessing about it and being passive. Not really addressing my concerns.

 

This has been the longest stretch of no anxiety in 4.5 months. I think what happened is there was a lot of pressure put on from myself and my partner to get off this dang drug so we could get pregnant and I was rushing through my tapering. I thought the anxiety was a side effect of the wellbutrin, but I think I was just tapering too fast. I dont really know.

 

Fingers crossed this continues for a bit longer and I can gain clarity on my self and the relationship.

 

 

 

[Carmie]

Hi Jen, 

 

I was happy to read that you’ve been in a long window. Windows never mean we are symptom free, it’s just that the symptoms are bearable and we are in “withdrawal normal.” I hope it continues for you too.💚

 

[jen84]

Thank you for your kind words Carmie. 

 

Im still riding this window, and I can feel myself improving on a daily basis. I honestly don't remember the last time I felt like this. Almost three weeks now of no anxiety. My obsessing about my partner and our relationship has almost stopped completely, the anxiety in the chest has stopped, my morning cortisol spikes are easing, I'm having normal dreams, im able to genuinely laugh and I feel like myself. 

 

The past 2 days I've started taking omega 3, before this i found it way too stimulating when i was in full anxiety mode, but now that my system has settled I can take it no problem. Im still taking magnesium and  L-theanine as needed.

 

I honestly think a big part of my feeling better has been acupuncture. I have another apt on tuesday and i can't wait!

 

What a relief to be feeling normal again. 

[wantrelief]

It is wonderful to read how well you have been feeling, Jen! 

[Carmie]

Hi Jen, 

 

That’s wonderful that you’re still doing so well. How did acupuncture go on Tuesday?💚

[jen84]

Thank you so much @wantrelief and @Carmie for your kind words. 

 

I'm still doing ok. Last night i thought my window was ending. My thoughts started racing again and it took a long time to settle for sleep. I was really scared actually that that was it, and i was doomed to another 6 months of anxiety. I woke up this morning and am feeling a bit better, still not where i was a few days ago but a heck of a lot better than where I was a month ago. 

 

Acupuncture went well, my Apts are getting more spread out now, and will soon be only maintenance visits. My acupuncturist has been amazing, and I'm so glad I went. I cant believe the difference from when i first started going a couple months ago to now. Night and day.

 

While I'm trying to enjoy the no anxiety as much as possible, at the same time I'm really scared for if and when it ends. 

[jen84]

I received a call yesterday to book my psychiatrist apt... They are booking 6 months from now! I'm glad it's nothing urgent.

 

I've been feeling ok. My anxiety now comes in waves throughout the day. It feels like I'm slowly going back to how I was. I'm trying to keep up with meditation and exercise. My diet has been garbage lately, maybe that has something to do with my feeling off. 

 

I don't know if im going through waves, or if the month long window was bc I finally addressed my partner on how i was actually feeling. I don't know if my returning anxiety is bc we are slipping back into how we were before, or if my body is truly going through waves of withdrawal. 

 

I'm so confused.

[Altostrata]

Hi, jen. How are you doing? Compared to 6 months ago, how has your symptom pattern changed?

 

What times of day do you now take your drugs. and their dosages?

[jen84]

Hi @Altostrata, thanks for checking in. 

 

I've been doing ok, I think I'm still going through windows and waves, but they're not as intense anymore. Im able to genuinely laugh now and I have days where I even feel love for my partner. Compared to 6 months ago, it's night and day. 

 

I believe the accupuncture has helped immensely with the anxiety. I had an apt three days ago and a few days before seeing her i was starting to feel on edge. The day after acupuncture was rough, but i am feeling better again. Today is the best I've felt in a long time, very close to "normal".

 

I'm still practicing meditation and even went to a Crystal bowl meditation a few nights ago. I've been going to the gym 3 or 4 times a week. I've also been attending counselling. My work is my main source of frustration right now so im looking for new opportunities so i can get out of the toxic work place.

 

I saw a naturopath a few days ago and she wants me to take vitamin D. She also gave me a supplememt to ease my nerves and hopefully calm the cortisol. I've only tried the vitamin D so far. 

 

I'm still taking 5.2mg wellbutrin 2xdaily, at the same time in the morning and evening. I'm also now taking L-theanine twice a day, 50mg magnesium 2xdaily, omega 3 and now the vitamin D once daily in the morning. 

 

I don't plan on tapering for a while now. I'm finally getting some normalcy back and I don't want to mess up all my work.

 

I'm still confused and lost, but less lost than I was before. I'm slowly healing. 

[Altostrata]

Good to hear, Jen. You'll get off Wellbutrin yet.

 

I'd be careful about adding any supplements for "nerves."

[jen84]

Well, I've accepted a new job and I am so excited! I won't start for a month or a month and a half which is perfect, as we will be moving 7 hours away from where we currently live. It was a rigorous interview process, but i made it through. 

 

Part of me is terrified, questioning whether or not this is a good move, but I'll never know if i dont go. My boyfriend and i are doing this together and it is comforting having him by my side along the way... So comforting!

[Carmie]

Congratulations on your new job Jen, 

 

Wishing you all the best with your move.💚

[jen84]

Hi everyone, figured I would provide a bit of an update.

 

So, 3 days ago we successfully moved and are almost unpacked. I start work next week, and I am actually excited about it. We've been out mountain biking and trail running so far, and i can't wait to explore more trails and areas, and see the sights and sounds. I was really nervous about the move, but now that we're here, I'm feeling better about the decision. It's nice to be in a new area where I don't know anyone. Its a fresh start.

 

Just before the move I went through a week long wave, it wasnt as bad as they have been before, but it was still unpleasant. I dont know if it was due to the stress of the move or what, but im glad it passed. 

 

Over the past two months I've felt changes, experienced things i haven't in over a year (good things), im slowly getting my good emotion back too. Though im not no where near where i was when I completely came off effexor, it's still a step in the right direction. We've been starting to talk about kids and marriage again, nothing serious, but I think that desire is starting to return. 

 

Pretty sure this whole process has given me intrusive thought OCD about my relationship (ROCD). Ive been doing a lot of reading on it and it definitely resonates with me. I know other ppl on this forum have developed OCD while tapering, so i think its definitely possible that I developed this. Plus, feeling numb to everything around me doesn't help either. I'm practicing accepting the thoughts, and not challenging them, leaning into them so to say. There are a few online courses specifically designed for ROCD that I might sign up for. 

 

I tried taking the CBD oil again at night to help with sleep, and stopped taking it after 2 weeks, i think it increased my anxiety. For now I'll stick to the L-theanine and omega 3. No plans in the near future to decrease the wellbutrin.

[Carmie]

What a great positive update Jen💚

[jen84]

Over the past couple months I have still been experiencing a small hum of anxiety. It doesn't really ever go away, and im pretty sure it's the remnants of what accupuncture couldn't get to. I think if it werent for the accupuncture, I would still be in overloaded anxiety land. The accupuncture has helped to ease the anxiety, but there's still a bit that is always hanging around. 

 

I am not quite ready to start tapering again, in fact I am still really scared to make any changes. I have been tossing around the thought of bridging over to prozac though and wanted to see what other ppl thought of this. I am fairly certain I am as close to normal that i will get on this dose of wellbutrin, but I'm nervous that my anxiety will flare up with a decrease. 

 

My main symptoms now are ruminating thoughts and intrusive thoughts, and while I have got really good at tackling The thoughts in regards to the relationship, i still feel trapped. I am emotionally numb, to most things, I don't feel passion or lust, I'm very much experiencing a very low libido. I just want to feel again, and i dont know if i will until i get to lower doses.

 

I remember coming off effexor, and when i was near the end of the taper I started having waves of emotion come rushing in. Emotion that i didn't even realize existed. I want that back.

 

I know there's not many ppl here who have bridged over to Prozac from wellbutrin, but if there's a chance it will work, I would seriously consider doing it. Im willing to wait many more months before trying it, as i would want to be as stable as possible.

[jen84]

I just got home from work training. In the weeks Before I left, I was having sleep issues and always a constant hum of anxiety going on. I then went for training for 4 days/3 nights, and had the best sleep in the world and my anxiety had eased up. I've now been home a few hours, and my anxiety keeps increasing and now I can't sleep again. I am so frustrated and disheartened. I was excited to be home again, but it's been a constant hum of anxiety again. I feel so lost and lonely in this fight and just want to sleep a peaceful sleep again and to wake up anxiety free. 

 

My libido is very much shot, my mornings are chock full of anxiety even before I actually wakeup. 

 

I'm going to try to get in for accupuncture again, but can someone please offer insight into if switching to Prozac is an option for me (see above post)?  @Altostrata any thoughts?

[Altostrata]

Is there something in your home environment causing you stress or anxiety?

[jen84]

@Altostrata im not really sure how to answer this. My anxiety has picked up, and in fact it never really went away, but it was bearable after the accupuncture sessions. My anxiety has caused me to obsess about my relationship, of which ive developed Relationship OCD. How do i know this? Because the odd time I get full windows, I do not obsess, or over analyze. I feel 100% content. I am emotionally numb from the wellbutrin, this is exactly how numb i felt while on and coming off effexor. Ive read that other ppl have developed OCD tendencies while tapering, and i identify so much with what everyone says. It keeps being eluded to that my relationship is causing anxiety, but I feel that it's the wellbutrin causing anxiety, including about my relationship. I not only have OCD about my relationship, I count in my head and with my fingers a lot, to music or anything. I'll listen to music anf I'll tap my fingers while counting in 2s. Its always in 2s. 

 

I had a chance to leave my partner, we were ready to call it off, but I know deep diwn this is what i want. I dont know how else to explain it. 

 

I want to get off wellbutrin, but I am terrified of the anxiety getting worse. Ive been at this dose for 6 months, and i honestly dont think things will improve much more. I am almost certain the anxiety is coming from wellbutrin. I havent had acupuncture in quite a while, so i think thats why it's picking up again and affecting my sleep. I noticed last night i would wake up every time he moved, maybe while i was away I slept so well bc it was quiet.

[Altostrata]

jen, you need somehow to change the ground rules in your relationship. The anxiety you have over it is exacerbating your symptoms.

 

No one should take psychiatric drugs to cope with a difficult relationship. If you want the relationship to continue, you need to find a way to bring it all out in the open. How about going to a beautiful park, sit on a park bench with sandwiches, and tell your partner that you "know deep down this is what i want" and talk about your anxiety over it?

 

One of my friends had a difficult relationship, they were always fighting, but they couldn't split. Finally, they both just decided to commit through thick and thin. Now when they fight, they remind each other of their commitment. Lowers the anxiety and they like each other a lot better now.

 

Please open or add to a topic in the Relationships forum to discuss your relationship.

 

To find out if anxiety is coming from the drug, please keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms. You can post them in this topic with a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

We can tell what's going on from your symptom pattern. This will help answer questions about what to do with Wellbutrin.

[jen84]

@Altostrata, I really appreciate your input, thank you. 

 

My partner and i have had so many conversations about this. He is very understanding and patient, and is giving me lots of time to figure this out and he tells me everyday how much he loves me. He may not fully understand what I'm going through, but he's doing his best to support me and make sure im functioning everyday. We dont really fight, sometimes we disagree, but we work through it. If we do have a fight, were able to work through that as well. 

 

 I have done my share of soul searching on this, ive sat on mtn tops, I've gone through counselling, I've gone through meditation classes (he would even join in sometimes too) all in order to figure out if he is who I want to be with. My conclusion is that I want to be with him, he's my rock. We almost did break up at one point, but it was me that said i wanted to work through it. 

 

I am now practicing accepting the thoughts of not wanting to be with him, i recognize these as OCD and intrusive thoughts. I just started a new job, so i dont have benefits yet and cant afford to attend counselling or acupuncture right now. 

 

I can track my symptoms for a few days, but my anxiety doesnt really ever go away. It may ebb and flow a little bit, but its not really noticeable. Its always just there. I have very minor waves,, where it'll get worse for a few days, but it's not very noticeable either.

[Altostrata]

Those sound like distrustful thoughts, not necessarily based on who your partner is, but how you view the world. Please do take up more counseling to reduce your anxiety.

 

That you felt so much better when you were away indicates your anxiety is environmental. It's not your partner's fault, but your ambivalence about the relationship.

 

I need to see your drug and symptom pattern, thanks.

[jen84]

Well, I've finally had a day where I could record my symptoms.

 

6:30am- wake up, moderate cortisol anxiety rush

7:00- 5.2mg wellbutrin, L-theanine, omega 3

7:30- anxiety easing 

11:00- feeling like I missed my dose, almost brain zap like feelings, minimum anxiety, just feeling off.

12:00- ate lunch, still feeling like i missed my dose

2:00- starting to feel better, still a bit off though

3:00- getting really tired, not much anxiety

5:00- anxiety increasing slightly, very tired

6:30- ate dinner

8:00- 5.2mg wellbutrin, L-theanine, omega 3

9:00- went to bed, minimum anxiety.

[jen84]

My anxiety is decreasing for sure and im getting better sleeps again. I had an acupuncture appointment last week, and i think that totally helped to reset me.

 

I've been noticing though, the past few weeks, around noon or so i start to feel like i missed my dose. I get brain zap like symptoms and feel very off. Im not sure how to describe it, other than feeling like I missed my dose. I don't know how long thats been happening but definitely a few weeks to a month that ive noticed lately. 

 

On another note:

During this whole process of being unsure in my relationship, I've been doing a lot of acceptance of the thoughts. I've been treating it like relationship OCD with ERP and not reacting to the thoughts. It's taken a lot of work but i am seeing that the hard work is paying off. My mind is more clear and i know this is what i want. I think im so confused bc I'm emotionally numb, and i blame the numbness on the wellbutrin. 

 

It's been a lot of soul searching to get to this point, and it's going to be tough until I'm fully off meds and can feel again, but I accept that. I want to continue this relationship and one day build a little family, I'm just so glad that I've been able to work through this anxious mess. I will continue with talk therapy, but I think I'll wait until my benefits kick in again. 

 

Im glad the acupuncture worked so well, she thinks my kidneys are not functioning properly and my blood and iron levels are low (which is normal for me), but I try to balance it by eating iron rich foods. I have been having better sleeps again, it was a month or two before this appointment that i was having terrible sleeps. I'm so happy to be sleeping again.

[jen84]

We went camping this weekend, and of course I forgot my oral syringe at home! We were too far out to go back and too far away from civilization to buy a new one. I ended up asking a neighboring camper if they had a teaspoon or something to measure with. She had a 5ml spoon for baking! Perfect! I used that for 2 nights and 1 morning. I dont think it was super accurate but it was better than not having any sort of measuring device. I didnt feel any effects of taking 10mg instead of 10.4, so tonight after getting back home, im going to continue with 10 (5mg 2xdaily). If needed I'll updose again, but I feel like I've stabilized as much as I'm going to and why not decrease now? Argh, I'm really nervous, but hopefully my system has settled enough.

[jen84]

Day 4 into my decrease, and my cortisol level has picked up this afternoon. My anxiety has slightly increased, but im keeping it at bay. Fingers crossed this is the worst of it. 

 

Again, yesterday and today around 11 or 1130, approx 5 hours after i take my morning dose, im feeling like i missed my morning dose. I'll try tracking my symptoms tomorrow.

[jen84]

10 days into the decrease now, and other than the cortisol spike on day 4, I've been symptom free. I went for acupuncture a few days ago, and it's definitely helping! 

 

I'm starting to feel love and connection with my partner again as well. Last night we watched a movie together and I actually cried!! Like i could feel emotion again! I'm still struggling with intrusive thoughts but I have been able to put all my OCD techniques to play and work through it. 

[wantrelief]

It sounds like you are doing really well, Jen....yay!  🙂

[jen84]

Thanks @wantrelief, yes I can't believe how well I'm doing (knock on wood). I believe acupuncture has been a huge help in reducing my anxiety. Of course the long hold helped as well. 

 

I'm curious what others think I should do for a taper plan? I'm coming up to 2 weeks on 10mg and I Have had very minimal wd effects from the 4% decrease, I wonder if i can slowly start increasing the amount? Like try 6% next? Or should I try 4% again and see how it goes? How long should i be holding at this dose before making another drop?

[Carmie]

Hi Jen, 

 

Thanks for dropping over to my thread. Sounds like you’re doing pretty good with your taper. I’m tapering around 4% or so myself. I can’t go any higher now, my body is so sensitised from all the meds I’ve been put on and off. 

 

Please hold for at least a month before you make another drop. Even if you’re not feeling too bad now, if you taper too early the symptoms can catch up with you later. It takes a while for your brain to get used to a new dose, and if you drop too soon, you may pay for it down the road. Been there, done that, learnt my lesson!😃

 

Take care, sending hugs🤗

[jen84]

Thanks Carmie, yes I'm planning on taking it slow, i don't want a repeat of what i went through this past winter. 

 

I would like to start the Brassmonkey taper plan this week. I'm nervous though bc i take my dose twice a day and I think it might get confusing. For example, right now I'm on 10mg, so 5mg 2xdaily. Nice and easy. I drop 2.5% I'm down to 9.975, devide that by 2 and it equals 4.98. I have a 1ml syringe, but it's not very easy to read or see the small ticks, and I'm not sure it's very accurate that it'll actually account for that .02ml drop.

 

I'm tempted to see how a 6% drop goes, as the 4% I did last time went really well. Can i keep increasing my drops if my previous drop went well?

 

Or, are there any other suggestions on how to keep this as easy as possible? What about changing the dilution? Adding more water to my mix so I can measure it out in my larger, easier to see syringe?

[brassmonkey]

Hi Jen-- those numbers don't look right to me.  I'm off to the doctors in a few minutes, but will check them when I get back in a few hours.

[brassmonkey]

"For example, right now I'm on 10mg, so 5mg 2xdaily. Nice and easy. I drop 2.5% I'm down to 9.975, devide that by 2 and it equals 4.98."

 

If you are trying to calculate a 10% Brassmonkey Slide it looks like you have an extra 9 in your first reduced dose. If you reduce 10mgai by 2.5% you get 9.75mgai.  Then when you divide that by 2 you get 4.875mgai.

 

If you are trying to calculate a 5% Brassmonkey Slide then you would be reducing by 1.25% not 2.5%. This would make your first reduction 9.875mgai for the daily dose and 4.938 mgai twice a day.

 

If you want to do a 10% Brassmonkey Slide the the first four reductions would look like this:

 

Week 1; 10 mgai X .975 = 9.75 mgai daily dose  9.75/2 = 4.875 mgai twice a day

Week 2;  10 mgai X .95 = 9.50 mgai daily dose   9.50/2 = 4.75 mgai twice a day

Week 3; 10 mgai X .925 = 9.25 mgai daily dose  9.25/2 = 4.625 mgai twice a day

Weeks 4-6; 10 mgai X .9 = 9 mgai daily dose       9 mgai /2 = 4.5 mgai twice a day

 

If you want to do a 5% Brassmonkey Slide the first four reductions would look like this:

 

Week 1; 10 mgai X .9875 = 9.875 mgai daily dose  9.875/2 = 4.938 mgai twice a day

Week 2; 10 mgai X .975 = 9.75 mgai daily dose  9.75/2 = 4.875 mgai twice a day

Week 3; 10 mgai X .9625 = 9.625 mgai daily dose  9.625 / 2 = 4.813 mgai twice a day

Week 4-6; 10 mgai X .95 = 9.50 mgai daily dose  9.5 / 2 = 4.75 mgai twice a day

 

If you want to do a 6% Brassmonkey Slide the first four reductions would look like this:

 

Week 1; 10 mgai X .985 = 9.850 mgai daily dose  9.850 / 2 =  4.925 mgai twice a day

Week 2; 10 mgai X .97 = 9.700 mgai daily dose   9.700 / 2 = 4.85 mgai twice a day

Week 3; 10 mgai X .955 = 9.550 mgai daily dose  9.550 / 2 = 4.775 mgai twice a day

Week 4-6; 10 mgai X .94 = 9.400 mgai daily dose  9.400 / 2 = 4.7 mgai twice a day

 

Hope that's helpful.  Once you decide on what percentage you want to decrease let us know and we can help figure out the next set of reductions and give you the formulas so you can take it from there.

[jen84]

@brassmonkey@brassmonkey, I would like to try the 10% a month decrease, so thanks for helping me out with the math. 

 

Now if I'm supposed to be taking 4.875 twice daily on my first decrease, how on earth do I measure this out? I can barely read the ticks on my 1ml syringe and i haven't been able to find anything better. Would adding more water to my mix help? How do I measure to the thousandth (.875)? Can i round this up to .88 or .9?