Raul: hello i'm a new member

[raul]

Hello, first of all, sorry for my english, i live in Alicante, spain, so my english is not my mother tongue. Well, my story is that i'm on with different ADepressants for 10 years! : 5 years with paroxetine, 1 year with mirtazapine, 6 months in prozac,  then 2 years with escitalopram, and 1 year with venlafaxine. In June 2014 i withdraw completely from venlafaxine...........but in august i become anxious, with insomnia, irritable, and finally depressive, so in 6 september y started with 10 mg escitalopram until now, but i feel very tired and i discovered this fórum so i need your help please!! i don't want to stay all my life with AD. Y started with 35 years old and now i'm 45 and my quality life is worse tan before. Before been 35 years old y NEVER took a psycho pill and even i am a nervous person and very sensitive y survived at least. I forgot to say thay dr. prescribed paroxetine for anxiety problems, instead of advising me to do therapy or giving me all the information of taking this pills for a long term. I know that partly is my fault but EVERYONE TRUST A DOCTOR, it is supposed that they are professionals and know what they do.

I read to tap (reduce) 10% every month, i want to do it VERY SLOWLY, because this drugs are very powerful, it is incredible that psychiatrists didn't give us all the information about their risks, but if they do it they couldn`t sell this terrible pills!!

Well, i am taking now 10 mg escitalopram from 6th september, on 6th november it will be 2 months, what you suggest me to do? y wait until 2 months or more and reduce very slowly 10% every month? i don't mind if y have to wait ONE year to be off the escitalopram. Well, thank you very much for reading me, sorry for my english, and greats hugs for everyone.

[LoveandLight]

Love Spain wishing was there right now..

Let's all get through this and learn together xx

[raul]

thanks joannad for your answer.

One doubt i have is: can i start to reduce escitalopram 10 mg now, very slowly of course, or it is preferibly to wait longer and then reduce gradually? i know i am very impatient but i went on escitalopram thinking i was depressed and never thought that it could be side effects of venlafaxine withdraw!

Hugs from Spain!

[Reflex]

Hi Raul

I too love Spain. I am new on here and not an expert. One of the moderators will offer you advice soon but they are the other side of the world and asleep. I felt desperate when I first wrote on her but like guardian angels they come along and give you advice on things to read. Each of us is individual in our stories in AD use but linked in the hope to get off them and be well again.

I have recently gone back on Ad after terrible problems with withdrawal. I too am keen to start the tapering but need to stabilise for at least two months, maybe longer. What I do know is to pick a good time when life is stable, so Christmas my not be good . I may have to wait until the new year.

We are lucky to have found this site. There is a wealth of support and information.

Best wishes

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Raul.

 

How are you feeling on 10mg escilatopram?

 

Here is our Tips for tapering off Lexapro (escitalopram)

[Petunia]

Hi Raul,

Welcome from me too.

 

One doubt i have is: can i start to reduce escitalopram 10 mg now, very slowly of course, or it is preferibly to wait longer and then reduce gradually?

 

From what you have written, it looks like you have been back on the ecitalopram for 7 weeks.  If you are stable, feeling well, with no symptoms, or low symptoms, then its probably safe to start tapering now.  But if you have symptoms and they are still changing (good days and bad days), then its better to wait longer until they settle down.

 

Tell us about how you are feeling now.

 

Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature.  Putting a short version of your drug history in your signature helps people understand your context, it appears below each of your posts.  Here are instructions for how to do it:

 

http://survivinganti...your-signature/

 

Petu.

[raul]

thanks for the answers, well i'm not feeling very well this days, sometimes y have good days and sometimes not, but my problem is that i am in good humour (i don´t know if it's the correct Word in english: i mean i feel stable) but i have very disturbing thoughts, however i continue with my normal life. Today i went to work but my bad thougths made me not feel too concentrate. Luckily i am sleeping well  from i started to take this drug, but after 7 weeks!! before this i had insomnia and not sleeping well. Venlafaxine withdraw maybe was the problem: but my doubt is that the symptoms started 2 months after complete withdraw....if it is posible?

I reduce venlafaxine for 2 months and i finished on 16 june 2014 (starting on march 2013), i thought it was a very good way to do and also confirmed by me psych. So i do not really know if it is due to a possible fast withdraw or a new episode of depression which started in middle august this year.

Well, thanks for reading, and forgive my english, but i don't speak it and so it's difficult for me to find the correct words (i think in spanish and then translate, but i don't know if it is correct).

bye

[Altostrata]

Yes, many people have withdrawal symptoms starting some weeks after quitting the drug.

 

It may take some time for your nervous system to settle down after the shock it's had.

[Rhiannon]

Yes, it is very common for people to come off an AD and feel okay, and even feel they are improving, only to get hit by withdrawal symptoms some weeks or months later. That is not unusual at all.

 

Usually a doctor will tell you that you have an underlying mental illness that is coming back, when that happens, but it is actually just more withdrawal.

 

Often there will be another increase in symptoms around six months out.

 

As far as whether you should start tapering again, do you have a liquid form that you can use? If not, please read our section on tapering and learn how to make a liquid. Once you are able to reduce by the very small but very precise and correct amounts that a liquid will give you, you can try a very small cut, just 5% or so, and see how your body and your mind respond to that. Wait four weeks and make sure you are feeling good before you cut again.

 

You may be able to cut faster at first, but given your history, if I were you, I would go much slower at the lower doses.

 

It will probably take at least a year, maybe longer, but it is worth it. I also was started on ADs in my early 30's, and I lost a full 20 years of my life to these drugs, because every time I tried to quit I did it too fast. Now I am tapering very slowly and I do not regret going slowly at all, it has been excellent for me and is working quite well.

[Rhiannon]

Also, you don't need to apologize for your English to US-Americans. We are notoriously bad about learning other languages. Most of us don't speak or read or write any other language as well as you are doing with English! I speak a little French and Spanish, very poorly, and that's more than most people I know.

[raul]

hello, thanks for the answers. Today i bought liquid escitalopram (esertia), in the information dosage, it says that 1 drop is equivalent to 1 mg., so my question is that if tomorrow i start 10% reduction (from 10 mg) i have to take 9 drops that is equivalent to 9 mg in a period of a month? well i'm impatient to start and withdraw this drug. I will tell my progress in these posts, maybe i will need near one year to finish the tapering. I expect not to need any more antidepressants and expect that my nervous system will be able to face the tapering. It is a pity that psychiatrists don`t tell nothing about withdrawls effects, but if they do it they can`t sell their famous pills.

[Petunia]

 in the information dosage, it says that 1 drop is equivalent to 1 mg., so my question is that if tomorrow i start 10% reduction (from 10 mg) i have to take 9 drops

 

yes that sounds right.

 

But it would be more accurate to get a small ml syringe from your pharmacy or vet.  Most people use this method for measuring the liquid.  Here is some information about it:

 

Using an oral syringe and other tapering techniques

 

[raul]

hello, i`m disappointed because i was taking 9 mg escitalopram but i was getting very anxious and so y returned to 10 mg, i feel sad and i had a horrible day at work, i started crying and couldn't stop. Also this day i couldn't sleep well because of the nervous of crying. Well, i don't know what to do...

[Altostrata]

raul, you've only recently substituted 10mg escilatopram, you need to let your nervous system settle down for a while before making any more changes.

[Rainbowyong]

HELLO~!

Im new on this FORUM! I'm from Malaysia (Southeast Asia)....

I am glad that everybody share about their stories and tips here...

It helps a lot! 

[raul]

hello Altostrata, so your opinion is that i have to continue taking 10 mg escitalopram, and then starting tapering? but when? i am taking it from 6th september,  i would appreciate a lot your answer or advice. Thanks.

[Petunia]

Hi Raul,

How are you feeling now? 

 

As Alto suggested, your nervous system may not be ready yet to begin another taper.  You have been through a lot of drug changes over the last 10 years.  From your signature it looks like you went cold turkey from venlafaxine just 5 months ago after being on it for 3 months. Followed by starting escitalopram 3 months later.  I understand how much you want to get off these drugs, but you have been on them for a long time and so its going to take time to get off them safely.

 

We can't tell you when to start tapering again.  You have to give attention to your own body.  Watch your symptoms, write them down, take notes and wait until you have no symptoms or low symptoms for 4 weeks.  Wait until you have felt good for a month with no nervous crying and no or very low anxiety. 

 

This might take longer than a month.  You might have to wait 3 months or 6 months.  Maybe longer.  But if you start tapering before your body is ready, you will will get worse withdrawal symptoms and have to go back up again, which then causes more destabilization and having to wait even longer. Which is what just happened.

 

When you do try another cut, please do what Rhi suggests here:

 

try a very small cut, just 5% or so, and see how your body and your mind respond to that. Wait four weeks and make sure you are feeling good before you cut again.

 

You may be able to cut faster at first, but given your history, if I were you, I would go much slower at the lower doses.

 

 

Write down how you are feeling every day.  Write regular updates here on your thread, take care of yourself, minimize stress as much as possible and check out these two topics:

 

Preparing to taper
Taking care of yourself so you are prepared to taper.

Rate symptoms daily to track patterns and progress
Keeping a record of your withdrawal symptom pattern so you can manage it.

 

Petu.

 

 

[raul]

hello petu, I'M DESESPERATED, PLEASE HELP ME! this week was awful at work i didn't sleep or sleep very few hours, i cry a lot at work, my coworkers were very surprised, i didn´t recognise me, i ask for help, and shouted at work, it was terrible. Last week they added to me deprax to sleep, the 3 first days i was very good but then now i couldn't sleep nothing with them.

I am desesperated because i need to sleep to go to work, i lost a lot of concentration and make mistakes at work. I m thinking change deprax to mirtazapine to help to sleep, but that means to ADD ANOTHER ADepressive, and so y have to taper one more in the future!!.Please help me, i don't know what to do, i am through my WORST days of my life, now i'm crying, i am lost and feel suicidal. But sleep is very important to me, i can't stay without sleeping son many days.

thanks very much if you read and answer me

raúl

[bubble]

Hello Raul,

 

it seems that your situation got worse after you took deprax also known as Trazodone. I ran interactions checker on Escitalopram and Trazodone and it seems your doctor made a particularyl bad choice combining the two.

 

We often find that when our CNS has become destabilised by drug changes such as the once you went through we have paradoxical and adverse reactions not only from drugs but also from supplements and even food. We see that attempts to quickly fix withdrawal syndrome make us only worse. Our best bet is sticking with the dose and endurning the symptoms while treating ourselves as gently as possible as if we were nursing a broken leg. 

 

If I were you, I would take some time off work and stay away from any drugs. We see so many people here struggling awfully with Mirtazapine. Did you keep your dose of Escitalopram steady as advised before? What symptoms did you have that led you to taking Trazodone? Sleeping problems? It's always advisable to check her on non-drug ways of dealing with symptoms.

 

There are so many tips here:  

Sleep problems: That awful withdrawal insomnia
 
What is the sleep cycle?
 
Early-morning waking with panic or anxiety
 
Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have withdrawal insomnia
 
Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful
 
TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime
 
White noise devices for sleep
 
Light therapy for sleep problems
 
Update on milk peptides for sleep: Our friend Lactium again  
 
L-arginine for sleep  
 
Glycine for sleep?  
 
L-ornithine for sleep  
 
Taurine (L-taurine amino acid) for sleep  
 
L-Theanine for anxiety, insomnia  
 
5-HTP (5-hydroxytryptophan) and tryptophan  
 
Sleep and amino poop out -- rotate aminos  
 
Valerian root
 

 

Also bear in mind this: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6632-the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable/

trazodone ↔ escitalopram

Applies to: trazodone, Lexapro (escitalopram)

Talk to your doctor before using escitalopram together with traZODone. Combining these medications can increase the risk of a rare but serious condition called the serotonin syndrome, which may include symptoms such as confusion, hallucination, seizure, extreme changes in blood pressure, increased heart rate, fever, excessive sweating, shivering or shaking, blurred vision, muscle spasm or stiffness, tremor, incoordination, stomach cramp, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. You should contact your doctor immediately if you experience these symptoms while taking the medications. In addition, you may have an increased risk of developing an irregular heart rhythm that may be serious. Your doctor may be able to prescribe alternatives that do not interact, or you may need a dose adjustment or more frequent monitoring by your doctor to safely use both medications. You should seek immediate medical attention if you develop sudden dizziness, lightheadedness, fainting, shortness of breath, or fast or pounding heartbeats while taking the medications. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

[raul]

hello everybody, i continue to take 10 mg escitalopram every morning, and rivotril to sleep but i continue to sleep only 4 hours and y wake up very nervous with a lot of anxiety and i think is because of my cortisol high level. I am desperated because i am tempted to take mirtazapine or seroquel to dream at least 6 or 7 hours. I decided not to take any more trazodone because it makes no effect to me. Please, what you suggest me to do? maybe to be patient? but it is very frustrating because my high level of cortisol makes me feel tired, always crying, and unconcentrated every day. I am suffering a lot, and i am thinking  going to the best psychiatrist here in Spain because I CAN'T CONTINUE SUFFERING, in that way, i am always thinking of comitting suicide because is the only way not to suffer any more.

Best wishes for all of you, but i'm weak, and i am not so brave to make a tapering, i suffer a lot doing it, so i feel lost and my nervous system is completely destroyed, well tanks for reading

[Rhiannon]

I'm sorry you're suffering so much, Raul. It's so awful. 

 

I know it doesn't help very much to hear this, but you CAN get through this. Maybe you can get some sick leave from work and reduce all the stress in your life for a while. Many of us have had to take some time off from work during the worst of withdrawal. It can be very helpful to get some "down time."

 

The cortisol thing is awful, I know. I'm so sorry. 

 

If you can just take it one day at a time or maybe even one hour at a time, you may find that you will have some better days soon. Then you will be glad that you were patient.

[Altostrata]

Raul, what is your daily symptom pattern? When do you take escilatopram?

 

Did it ever make you feel better?

 

Have you started taking any other drugs, including antibiotics?

[raul]

hello everybody, well i`m disappointed with myself. Finally i went to my psych. and he ADDED me mirtazapine 15 to sleep at nights. I know i am weak, but couldn't put up with bad sleep at nights. Well, that means that i have to taper 2 antidepressants in the future, uffffff...................well, i am annoyed with myself a lot but no sleep at nights was becoming very suffering. Was right what i did? well, thanks everybody for your answers, but i still feeling no happy about what i did.

[Altostrata]

Did the mirtazapine work?

[raul]

Hello, i started september 2014 escitalopram 10 and then in january 2015 i reduce 1 mg.each month and y finish in june 2015, but cold turkey and i have horrible symptoms and on i decided to reinstate 5 mg escitalopram this 20 july, i couldn`t bear ANYMORE with the horrible symptoms.

I think i taper very fast,even they were 6 months tapering,  and so now i will decide, when i stabilisize, to taper only 10% per month,or less, because it is my second cold turkey, maybe it will take me 3 years or more to taper but i am very scared of the w/d symptoms, the other one was last year after w/d from venlafaxine and i have terrible effects for 3 months!

These pills ARE REALLY NASTY, i am so angry that i could kill the first psychiatrist that gave me the ads.

The question is when i finish from tapering in the next years,with a very slow taper, will i have symptoms of withdrawal?, because if i continue to have i prefer not to suffer and use these horrible drugs until i die. Please, answer me i need your opinions!!

 

Bye for now for everybody from Spain, the sun's country.

[Altostrata]

raul, the reason we suggest tapering so slowly is to minimize withdrawal symptoms. That is the purpose of tapering.

 

Most of the people who taper that gradually report it is a lot easier to go off that way.
 
Please see Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

[raul]

Hello, after my last failed tapering escitalopram, i decided to reinstate 5 mg.of this drug this monday 20 july after being suffering 2 longs weeks with terrible withdrawl symptoms. So now i will decide to taper the 10% system, so it will take me around 2 years or more!! to be off antidep.

My first question is that now that i am being feeling better when i start to taper?

 

My second question is: is it worth all this high effort to taper the drug if after i finish tapering and being in 0 mg. i will have withdrawls symptoms? because if this it is the case maybe i prefer to be on this horrible drug the rest of my life.

 

Thanks to everybody if they can answer me, if anyone want to visit Spain or is from spain i would appreciate to know each other personally, i would not be so alone with this problems.

[Altostrata]

raul, I moved your post here.

 

I would call this a practical doubt rather than an existential doubt.

 

The reason we recommend slow tapering is to reduce the risk of withdrawal symptoms and prolonged post-discontinuation syndrome.

 

We cannot tell the future. There may be bumps along the way. It's your decision whether you want to take this risk.

 

If you are feeling better, you would let your nervous system enjoy this for a couple of months at least. Then, when you are feeling confident, you start to sneak off the drug with a 10% taper.

[raul]

thanks very much alto for yours answers, you are an angel, you deserve the best in life really, you are really a very good person   i tell you that now that i have decided  to reinstate i am feeling much better, only having some trouble with anxiety, but my sleep and my mood are better now, last week i was crying with horrible panic and depression (terrible now that i remember) and now i am better, but anyway i am not in my 100%, so why i decided to stabilize and then after some months try the taper but this way ONLY 10%/month and in a compound pharmacy to be more accurate.

[raul]

hello, bad day today, i can't stop crying, the cortisol is responsable for it, I couldn't sleep and then i started to cry a little at work, and now that i am at home i am desperated, even with horrible thoughts. I shout and cry, and luckily i live alone because i do not want to bother my  Friends. I put a towel into my mouth to cry and the neighbours couldn't hear anything.It is frustrating, i know i have to be patient, but these withdrawls symptoms are muy too strong.

[LoveandLight]

It's horrible, Raul.. I am sorry.

[Petunia]

I'm sorry you had a bad day Raul, but it sounds like the reinstatement has helped. It may take a while for you to stabilize back on this dose, possibly several months and it will happen in a windows and waves pattern, see: The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

You will have bad days and better days and slowly there will be more good days. Also see:  About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

I tried reinstating, but it didn't work for me, if it works, its a good solution for getting stable and then doing a slow, safe taper to become drug free with less suffering.

 

((hugs))

[raul]

hello, thanks petunia for your answer, today a bad day too, but better tan yesterday, i only slept 4 hours and continue depressed.

Y have a doubt: i am having supplements like fish oil in the morning with vit.E, magnesium, multivitamins and minerals and phosphatidilserine, vit. C and 100 gr.5htp at nights, it is too much? or i do not have to take supplements while reinstating after i stabilise? i am not sure about the 5htp but my dosage of lexapro is 5 mg., so i do not know if i am doing well or not, i also take klonopin in the night to help to sleep better.

Thanks if you can answer me.

hugs

[Altostrata]

raul, the Klonopin is important. How much do you take and how long have you been taking it?

 

Please keep notes on paper about your daily symptom pattern relative to when you take each drug and supplement. This can help determine if one or another is causing adverse reactions.

[raul]

hello altostrata, i am having 0.5 mg klonopin at nights, sometimes when i am more stressed i reach to 1.0 mg, but it was only 2 days i think. I started with the klonopin, aproximately 20 days ago, that means the 10th july, but a few times i didn`t take anything because i wasn`t too much stressed, anyway, I decided to give up the 5htp because maybe is too much and is not adviseable to take with de AD. As you have suggested, this time i am taking notes everyday of my symptoms.  At present, my symptoms are like to be in a rollercoaster, it seems that my body allows me to rest some days meanwhile it's preparing a load of cortisol to hit me. I exploded these days: on 20th, 23th and 29th, since i start with w/d symptoms on 10th july, and NOW i feel, for the 3 last days, a lot of cortisol/adrenaline in my body, with very hot sensations and something that itches my blood (yes, it sounds strange), and a strange sensation in my chest and the feeling to want to cry always. But the worst is that my sleep is poor and i have to go to work, and it is very, very frustrating.and also nobody believe me when i say that the med is responsable for that, and they suggest me to take more medicine, even there are persons that they think is a problem of attitude (  ) and that i have to be more brave to face life...........sigh.

hugs from raul

[raul]

hello,  after 3 days of high cortisol, yesterday and today i am having "good days", that means that i can go to the beach, go cycling, etc, but not fully recovered anyway. The fact is that when my cortisol's level is not too high, my sleep is better, then my day is better too. Maybe these next days i will have a wave of cortisol,i don't know, i hope that not, but when the snc is so weak...who knows. The fact is that i am not sure if reinstating 5 mg lexapro after a fast taper of 6 months was a mistake or not.........who knows, but now that i have been taking it for 12 days it is difficult to think on reducing it, like altostrata said is not advisable to change dosages,  so i think i will continue with 5 mg and when stable starting for this time a very slow taper.

Altostrata: do you think i keep on with 5 mg of lexapro and 0.5 mg klonopin in nights? with all the suplements i put in my signature ?

thanks and big hugs from raul