Satch: Seroquel and Remeron Help!

[Satch]

Hi,

 

Was detoxed of off Klonopin 1.25mg six months ago and still suffering massively in post acute withdrawal.  Trapped on Seroquel 100mg and Remeron 15mg.  Want to start to taper the Seroquel to start getting this poison out of my system

 

Was thinking of doing a water suspension to make 2.5% cuts per week for the first 50mg.  Is this a reasonable pace which is slightly faster than the 10% rule but actually initial cuts will be smaller.

 

Just looking for hope and support that I will someday escape the clutches of psychiatry and have my life back.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Pushinthroughket]

Hi Satch, I don't have any advice just didn't want to read and not comment- Just showing my support while you taper off, I too am about to embark on my tapering. 

All the best, stay positive. 

[Petunia]

Hi Satch,

Welcome to the forum.  I merged your two topics together, its one intro topic per member, you can use this thread as your ongoing journal to track progress and communicate with the community, add to it whenever you want.

 

I'm sorry to hear you are still suffering from withdrawal symptoms from stopping klonopin.  How did you stop taking it?  How long were you taking it for, we need a few more details of your history before we can know what to suggest.  Dates, dosages, length of time taken and how you tapered for all your medications would be helpful.

 

Please put your withdrawal history in your signature.  Putting a short version of your drug and tapering history in your signature helps people understand your context, it appears below each of your posts.  Here are instructions for how to do it:

 

http://survivinganti...your-signature/

 

We generally would not recommend starting a new taper while already suffering withdrawal symptoms.  You need to give your nervous system time to recover and stabilize first.  The fact that you are still experiencing symptoms is evidence that you are still in a destabilized state, more tapering will just make it worse.

 

Its very possible to be free from psyche drugs, we have many members who are currently tapering off poly pharmacy and others who have finished tapering, but it requires patience and time.  Some people are able to stop faster, but others are more sensitive and need to take longer, by listening to your body and symptoms, is a good indication of how fast or slow you can go.

 

Once you get back to us with more details about your drug history and situation, we will be in a better position to offer support and suggestions.

 

Petu.

[Satch]

Thanks Petu,

 

I updated my signature.  Hope that helps.

 

What would you define as a stable place within my recovery to start tapering the Seroquel.  I just fear the longer I am on it the harder it will be to get off of it.

 

I am however, in a pretty acute place still from being cold turkeyed in detox off of the klonopin.

 

This is brutal and terrifying .

 

Thanks again,

 

Chris

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Satch.

 

Is Dr. Shipko helping you taper off Seroquel?

 

Are you having side effects from it?

[Satch]

Dr. Shipko is giving me some basic advice.  Not really a structured taper but just said to start slow and see how I do.

 

I am definitely getting sugar craving, metabolic issues from it.  It's also making me not really care about anything.  I am so angered that such short term klonopin use did this much damage to me and now has me trapped in the world of psychiatry for years of tapering.

 

Very worried I am not going to survive this.

[Satch]

Can anyone help me with a suspension of Seroquel so I can begin a slow taper off this stuff.

[Satch]

Also, Dr. Shipko feels my present suffering is med side effects and no longer withdrawal from the klonopin.  He says he really questions the concept of protracted withdrawal with benzos. 

[Petunia]

Thank you for updating your signature Satch.  What symptoms are you actually having at the moment? 

[Altostrata]

Please read this topic http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1707-tips-for-tapering-off-seroquel-quetiapine/

[Satch]

The main symptoms I am having are crushing depression that is horrific in the am and starts to lift as the day progresses, anxiety, dp/dr, muscle twitches.

 

I want to start to taper the Seroquel even though I am far from stable because I fear it is causing long term damage to me.

 

Any advice and support is welcomed.

 

Thanks

[Satch]

Looking for some hope that this a manageable problem.

[Altostrata]

I wish Dr. Shipko's opinion that prolonged benzo withdrawal syndrome doesn't exist were true. Unfortunately, I've known many people with prolonged benzo withdrawal syndrome. There are several support groups on Facebook.

 

Seroquel is not a health supplement, for sure. Did Dr. Shipko think your symptoms would decrease if you were off Seroquel?

 

Please keep notes about your daily symptom pattern on paper, relative to when you take your drugs. This is to see if any of your symptoms are adverse drug reactions.

 

Are you taking any other drugs? If so, please put ALL the drugs you take in the Drug Interactions Checker http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html and post the results in this topic.

[Satch]

He felt all my current symptoms were med side effects.  This makes no sense since I have had the same symptoms for six months since ill fated detox.  He did think I would see improvement if I tapered.

 

I tried to taper the Seroquel in July and when I cut 12.5mg I got horrific akathasia that would have me pacing for up to five hours everyday.  Made me horribly suicidal.

 

I am also on the crappy Remeron.  I fear not slow tapering the klonopin is going to cost me years of painful tapering off these other meds.  I really don't think I have the strength for that.

[Satch]

Do you recommend the Seroquel or the Remeron first.

 

Just want to start to get some of these poisons out of my system.'

 

Scary that Robin Williams was also on this cocktail.

 

THanks

[tgirl]

Hey Satch how are you doing?

[Meimeiquest]

I do not know a lot about either of those drugs, but It seems people have a lot of trouble with Remeron both taking it and tapering it. I would try to get as much info as possible before determining which is presently causing you the most trouble. If it is Remeron and you pull both Klonopin and Seroquel, you are not going to feel well. I don't know exactly how to sort that out.

[Satch]

That is a fear.  That with a completely compromised CNS from the klonopin ct that these other meds are going to be impossible to get off of.

[Satch]

I honestly have no hope I am ever going to get out of this mess alive.  I am going to become another victim of psychiatry

[Petunia]

Hi Satch,
It may take a while, but you will recover.  You have the benefit of good information and support (here), so at least you know what's going on.  We have no easy solution, no quick fixes, but we can help you to not make your situation worse as it slowly gets better.

 

The main symptoms I am having are crushing depression that is horrific in the am and starts to lift as the day progresses, anxiety, dp/dr, muscle twitches.

 

He felt all my current symptoms were med side effects.  This makes no sense since I have had the same symptoms for six months since ill fated detox.  He did think I would see improvement if I tapered.

I have been experiencing all the symptoms you listed, plus more, to varying degrees for the last 18 months since I have been medication free.  While those symptoms may sometimes be drug side effects, they are also symptoms of drug withdrawal and nervous system destabilization. Dr. Shipko may have his beliefs, but there is enough evidence, through the experiences of many real people, to suggest that his beliefs don't match up with the actual truth.

 

When someone is experiencing debilitating symptoms and is still taking some form of medication, its very tempting to blame it on side effects of the drugs, because then it gives the illusion of having some control, that there is something we can do to stop the pain..... get off the evil drugs and the symptoms will stop.  But that's not always the truth.

 

If the symptoms are being cause by previous withdrawal, too fast tapering and nervous system instability, then more tapering, or any changes which effect the NS, are going to increase the instability, possibly making the situation worse.

 

Alto has suggested some very detailed note taking to try and find out if you are actually having drug side effects.  This is important because if this is not side effects, but previous withdrawal and you continue to taper, you are likely to become worse, like what happened here:

 

I tried to taper the Seroquel in July and when I cut 12.5mg I got horrific akathasia that would have me pacing for up to five hours everyday.  Made me horribly suicidal.

 

 

You probably don't want to hear this, but sometimes it can take a long time for the nervous system to stabilize again after getting thrown off the wall.  Whether someone is still taking medication or not, once it gets to a point of 'chaos', then the only way to come back from that point, back to a healthy, drug free state, is by doing everything humanly possible to foster a stable environment for your nervous system, so that it can begin to find a balance again.

 

If still on medication, when that stability has been achieved, then a proper, safe taper can be resumed, keeping it slow enough to maintain stability.  For some people that needs to be extremely slow.

 

My nervous system crashed off its wall at the end of 2011.  I didn't know what was going on and kept trying to fix myself with various drugs, but I just kept getting worse.  I didn't understand that the constant changes, the stopping and starting, trying different doses were what was increasing the damage.  When I found this site and quit trying to fix myself with drugs, but started focusing on stability instead, was when I very slowly started to improve, but even then it took a good year before I started to notice any real improvement.  Its only been over the last couple of months that I'm certain recovery is happening.

 

Your situation is different, you are still on some medication and there is a small possibility that some of your symptoms may be side effects, but my opinion, based on what I've learned here over the last year is that your symptoms are most likely coming from previous withdrawal which you haven't yet recovered from.  It may be making you more sensitive to your current meds, but because of what happened in July, when you tried to cut the Seroquel, I would be very careful about making any changes right now.  If you do decide to try another taper, I suggest a very small cut, 5% or even less, and see how you feel.

 

If you are willing to be patient, I have every confidence that you can get off these drugs and recover.

 

READ THIS:

The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

 

Please let us know what you decide.

 

Petu.

 

[Rhiannon]

The main symptoms I am having are crushing depression that is horrific in the am and starts to lift as the day progresses, anxiety, dp/dr, muscle twitches.

 

I want to start to taper the Seroquel even though I am far from stable because I fear it is causing long term damage to me.

 

Any advice and support is welcomed.

 

Thanks

 

The pattern of feeling worse in the morning and better later in the day is classic in psych drug withdrawal. Very common, practically universal, with benzo withdrawal. It appears to be due to normal daily fluctuations in cortisol levels, which get screwed up by drug use and withdrawal. The symptoms you describe sound like withdrawal to me--certainly they are very common in withdrawal.

 

It's true you only used the K the last time for a short time but you have a long prior history on benzos. We often see this pattern, that people can use psych meds for a while and go on and off them a few times, but then they try it again and everything hits the fan. 

 

You can definitely taper the Seroquel when the time is right. I personally think you would benefit from staying where you are right now, particularly since on top of the protracted benzo withdrawal you went through a big cut and withdrawal as recently as July. All of these changes are destabilizing and your nervous system seems to have run out of slack, as everyone's does sooner or later. There's no simple right answer; the drugs suck and they're bad for us, but the symptoms of withdrawal are signs that your nervous system is very unhappy and out of balance right now, and I don't think putting it into even worse withdrawal is going to benefit it.

 

That is a fear.  That with a completely compromised CNS from the klonopin ct that these other meds are going to be impossible to get off of.

 

Actually, you will recover from the Klonopin CT. It may take a while. And then you will be able to get off the other meds.

It is not impossible and it is not anything like the misery you're experiencing now, if you taper slowly enough. However, you do have to wrap your mind around taking your time. It does take time. There does not appear to be any substitute for time. Your brain has been screwed up by these drugs and it really doesn't have any inbuilt mechanisms for healing what they've done to them, since we've never before in evolution encountered any insult like this before. Yet, amazingly, we do find that over and over again, if people are patient and careful and gentle with their nervous systems, they do recover and heal. It's quite astounding. 

 

If I can recover from 20 years of multi-psych-med drugging and many miserable attempts to withdraw, at my advanced age, you can too. But changing meds, going up and down on doses, putting them in, taking them out of your brain, is like putting your poor brain through a blender. You can throw some new ingredients in the smoothie and change the speed, but it's still a blender. You need to turn off the blender and then give it some time to heal itself. That can take a long time.

[Rhiannon]

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6447-best-of-sa/?p=89902

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6447-best-of-sa/?p=91582

[Satch]

I really question if I have the strength to go through years of this.  I know the ct could take a while longer to get over and then both Seroquel and remeron have reputations for being very hard to remove.  I am honestly considering ending it and refuse to go to the hospital since that only means more meds.

 

I have been killed by psychiatry.  I was never suicidal before in my life.  This is so tragic.

[Satch]

Help!!

[Rhiannon]

Satch, I'm sorry you're suffering so much! If you feel you are suicidal and you really are at risk, please call a suicide hotline or a therapist locally. We are mostly thousands of miles away and we can't give you that kind of support, so if that's what you need, please reach out to somebody who can help you. 

 

That feeling of "I can't go through years of this" is something we hear often and most of us have also been through ourselves. Fortunately you probably don't have to. If you treat your nervous system gently now, you will gradually, eventually, come to feel better. Tapering off the other meds can then be done slowly and it won't be harsh. It won't be like what you're experiencing now.

 

We can help you with advice to help you get stable now (advice given in above posts). Then when you're feeling better, we can help you with figuring out how to taper.

 

Unfortunately we don't have any other magic that we can pull out of our hats. 

 

Our Symptoms and Self Care section is full of information on coping with what's going on for you now. If there's a specific question or subject, do a Google search by entering "surviving antidepressants (whatever your question is)"--that works better than the search feature in the forum.

[Satch]

THanks Rhi,

 

I just feel completely hopeless and everyday is just more suffering and agony.  I also have lost my entire rich life to this and see no hope of ever rebuilding something worth living and fighting for.

 

Please continue to give me hope that this is a solvable problem with some reasonable end at some point.

 

Thanks again and please anyone else with support or an opinion please chime in.

[tgirl]

Hello Satch,

I too am suffering from remeron and am experiencing the same effects as you are.

it is difficult! Hand in there!

Are you still on rem? What mg.?

[Satch]

I am taking 15mg.  I can't tell if it's hurting or helping.  Mixed in with the benzo withdrawal and I am suffering greatly.

 

Struggle to see the light.

 

How about you?  You still on it or tapering or off.  Let me know.

 

THanks

[tgirl]

I am struggling to see the light too!

Yes, I am still tapering off. My doc had me go from 45 to 7.5 all within a month. So I will not be tapering until I can get this under control.

I am very scared and also very suicidal.

I am not sleeping well if at all. Between 2-4 hours most nights.

I find it so hard to believe that just 6 months ago I was a healthy happy girl!

Makes me sick absolutely! I feel this is so inhumane and I just want out!

So sorry for venting!

I hope you get a window soon!

Please write me back with all your details so we can support each other!

Thanks for the ear

[alizarin]

Hi Satch,

 

I'm also on 2 mg K and Remeron. I CT 10 mg Lexapro, out of ignorance a few years back and haven't been able to sleep for 6 months. I've also lost everything in my life. If you need to talk, PM me. Take care.

[Satch]

Sorry you are both suffering so much.  I really don't think I have the strength to make it through healing from the klonopin and then two more challenging tapers.

 

Praying for all of us involved.

[Satch]

I am so scared guys.  See no real way out of this mess.  See a life lost to psychiatry.  Please give me hope that this is a solvable problem.  I guess looking for constant reassurance.

 

Thanks

[Satch]

For those who have commented.  When I am ready would you taper the Remeron or the Seroquel first.

[Rhiannon]

Satch, all I can say is, most of us have been where you are, believe it or not. Yes, there is still hope. My life was completely, totally down the toilet six years ago due to the effect of decades on psych drugs. I even attempted suicide at one point. Lost everything, was homeless, etc.

 

Now I'm rebuilding, have a good job and a life; I will never have the life I could have had, but I'm having quite a lot of fun from time to time, and the rest of the time isn't too bad either. I'm grateful every single day that I found out what the drugs were doing to me and that I have done this long slow taper and gotten back so much of myself. And I'm actually looking forward to the future--after being hopeless and suicidal most of the time for about 20 years, that's quite a change.

 

I wish I could say it's going to be easy, but it's not easy and it's not fast. It's your life and you have to fight for it. You have to decide that psychiatry isn't going to get to take it away from you. Then you just take it one day, one hour, at a time, putting one foot in front of the other, taking one breath after the other.

 

Lots of people have done it. Lots of people have given up and gone back on meds, too. The choice is yours.

[WinningThrough]

Just wondering, does anyone think Satch could slowly titrate off both drugs at once?

[Satch]

That would be ideal.  I know they are somewhat similar in what receptors they hit.

 

I really don't see a good end to this.  Years of tapering and never sleeping on my own ever again.

 

This is so brutal and unfair.