Satch: Seroquel and Remeron Help!

[RubyTuesday]

Hi Satch, just checking in because I tapered off Remiron & Seroquel both, off Rem for a year and a half, still on 1/2 tab of SQ (12.5 milligrams) (now tapering off Lamictal) I can't always find replies to my replies as there is a lot of stuff on here and I go into info overload fairly easily, but feel free to message me if you want.

 

I tapered off the Rem first as per Breggin get off the AD first, the activating ones first, the sedatives later, but Remiron is an evil drug that both agitates and sedates simultaneously. when I was on both was the worst point in my life, felt always like under lead, and felt my brain about to convulse.

difficult withdrawal especially off the SQ but much happier now and looking forward to getting off all of it

Ruby

[Satch]

Having trouble finding a compound pharmacy that will compound the Seroquel.  Any ideas on how to taper. 

[Hopefull]

Hi Satch,

How are you feeling? I have read through your thread and I know how you are feeling. Everyone that is on this forum has experienced really bad periods and then improved over time. 14 months ago I was a real mess, but I am doing much better now. You will too. You just have to persevere and be patient. If you are ready to taper, then make that decision and stick with it. If you are not ready, then wait a while and see how you are feeling. I am currently tapering of Mitrazapine, and it has been rocky. I think getting of AD'S is going to be rocky, even if it is decreased by small amounts. It is inevitable.  I look at tapering from the view that I will feel some kind of discomfort but it will pass.  I have been tapering since October and I have had rough patches. You can do it, you just need to be in the right frame of mind.  Maybe you should take the advice by moderators and wait to stabilise and then start cutting down slowly. It took me 9 months to finally make the decision to come off Mitrazapine. Don't rush to make that decisions, unless you are experiencing really bad side affects. You will get there. What ever you decide to do, you will be ok. Cheers, Hopefull.

[Satch]

Just an update.  Haven't started Seroquel or Remeron taper.  I really need to be more stable.

 

I am having some better days mixed with the usual horror and agony. 

 

My biggest fears are:

- Will I ever get off of these other meds and stay somewhat functional

- WIll I ever sleep normal again off of these meds.

- Am I getting sicker taking the meds which I feel trapped on

- Rinse and repeat

 

Thanks again to all of you that have reached out and offered support.

 

Chris

[Satch]

I think I made a pretty big mistake.  I had started to feel a little better and then began having bad insomnia the nights before working.  I took an additional 25mg of Seroquel late one night which gave me much needed relief.  Things were ok for the next few days until Sunday when I got horrific anxiety, akathisia, leg shaking, etc.  I panicked and took another additional 50mg of Seroquel in attempt to sleep.  Not only did I not sleep but now I fear I have destabilized my incredibly fragile CNS.  I am going to return tonight to the 100mg I have been on for ten months and try to restabilize.  I am hyper anxious today, mind racing at light speed, restless and fear another complete night of sleeplessness.

 

Have I damaged things really badly?  If I only did this twice in a week should I hopefully return to baseline soon as long as I keep the dose consistent.

 

Looking for educated guesses.  Thanks again,

 

Chris

[Satch]

Any advice out there, please.

 

Thanks,

 

Satch

[Satch]

Can someone please help me.  I am scared I have done something really bad.

[chicken]

Hi Satch, I do believe that Alto said in another thread that more of the drug is not necessarily better. You may have taken too much too quickly.

You said that you had started to feel better and then hit some insomnia. I hit some insomnia for a couple of nights about a month ago but did not updose. I held out to see if it would resolve and it did.

 

If you can stabilize and ride it out, the insomia may stabilize too. Mine did without updosing. You will probably hit bumps when stabilizing but jumping up to a higher dose too quickly looks like it could cause more destabilization. If you have to adjust a dose, adjust it in smaller amounts.

 

Hopefully, Alto or someone will be along to help more.

 

Also, I believe my insomnia may have been related to "change of life" issues or it could have been the drug. Either way, it adjusted.

[mammaP]

Hi Satch, you should stabilise again if you stay consistent with your doses and times. I'm sorry that you are suffering from insomnia, I know personally how hard it is.

Sadly when your nervous system is unstable it doesn't take much to make things worse as you've discovered. I once accidentally overdosed my effexor and took a whole capsule instead of a few beads. It was terrible for a few days but settled down again. I know seroquel is a very different drug but hopefully you sill restabilise again soon. Try not to be tempted to take more while stabilising, it might be a bit rough for a while but should settle down again. 

 

Let us know how it's going and don't beat yourself up, you were desperate and tried to ease things, you won't make that mistake again! I hope you feel better very soon, try to relax when you go to bed and not think about sleep. At my worst I accept that I will not sleep and just relax and meditate in bed. Invariably I do drop off at some point eventually, usually not for very long but occasionally for 2 or 3 hours. The insomnia is part of withdrawal that seems to be in waves like everything else and hopefully will ease for you soon.

[Pugknows]

Hey Satch! Sorry you're feeling lousy and scared. It's all WD related, so every symptom will decrease and go away eventually. In the meantime, try to stay as calm as possible by breathing deeply and sitting quietly in a darkened room if possible. When you panic, your emotions are heightened and your situation seems worse and you feel desperate to DO something like updose or take something to "fix" your brain, nerves, body, when all your body really needs is NOTHING. It wants to just "do its thing" to get you back to your happy place...contentment, serenity, calmness, inner peace. It's in turmoil now and everything you DO is going to keep it in turmoil. Do your best to just observe the discomfort and not feed it. At least that's what I'm trying to do. Sometimes I'm successful, other times, not so much. I definitely know how to make things worse. You're going to be fine. ((hugs))

[Satch]

Does anyone know if you cut pills that the coating changes how the body processes the med.  I see some say you should use a gel cap to allow stomach to digest correctly.  Any advice is welcomed.

 

Thanks,

[Petunia]

What pills are you talking about Satch, some have a coating to protect the stomach.

[Satch]

I have the 25mg instant release pills.  I am interested in maybe learning to create a suspension.  Or has anyone used a jewelers scale to do it.

 

Just seem hypersensitive to any changes.  Still suffering from updose a week later.  Incredibly revved up and unstable.  Just want to heal and start to feel some relief.

[Satch]

Is there any place on the planet that helps people gently get off meds and provides a place to stay and be cared for?

[Satch]

Need some guidance and hope.

 

I recently switched from a 100mg Seroquel tab to 4x25mg tabs.  Since the switch I am getting horrible akathisia in the afternoon.

 

Is it possible that this switch is effecting me so dramatically.

 

Thanks for all the love, help and support here.

 

Chris

[Wildflower0214]

Answered your PM...

 

Hang in there.

[Satch]

When a medicine becomes paradoxical what do you do?

 

The seroquel I am taking has gone from knocking me out cold to now revving me up with anxiety and heart palpitations and insomnia.

 

Please help me.

 

Thanks

[primrose]

When a medicine becomes paradoxical what do you do?

 

The seroquel I am taking has gone from knocking me out cold to now revving me up with anxiety and heart palpitations and insomnia.

 

Please help me.

 

Thanks

I'm really sorry to hear you are in such pain.

I regret that I don't know anything about when a med becomes paradoxical.

Hopefully someone with experience of this phenomenon will come on this thread and advise you.

I remember people on the benzo forums having paradoxical reactions to drugs, I think they just tapered off slowly.

I take magnesium maleate and that relaxes my muscles.

I just came on here to wish you the best solution for your problem even though I dont have it regretfully.

[mammaP]

Hi Satch, when did you start seroquel? I see that you switched from 100mg to 25mg 4x daily.  Presumably the 100 mg was slow release and would have been released gradually over 24 hours and the 25mg are immediate release? That would mean you are getting the full amount right away and obviously too much for you.

 

Effexor turned paradoxical on me but the side effects became less as I tapered, hopefully that will be the case for you too. 

Here is the topic for tapering seroquel.  It seems that the immediate release is water soluble for easy tapering. 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1707-tips-for-tapering-off-seroquel-quetiapine/?p=33069

 

 http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2693-how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules/

 

Would you update your signature for us please Satch so we can see where you are at and what you are taking now?  It will be a big help for us.

 

Sorry the link for making a liquid isn't working, copy and paste it into your browser to get to the thread, I'm not techy enough to fix links! 

[Altostrata]

Satch, how long were you taking Seroquel before it went paradoxical?

 

Are you taking any other drugs? Please put ALL the drugs you take in the Drug Interactions Checker http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html and post the results in this topic.

[Satch]

Hey Guys,

 

A quick update.  I am still having bad withdrawal and horrible akathisia.  Still on same meds and am switching to water suspension of seroquel to begin a slow taper.

 

Have moved to Alaska to be taken care of by a couple of people from Mad in America.  Have lost everything in my life to psych med withdrawal.  

 

Hope you are all doing better than I am.

 

Chris

[Satch]

Here's an update.

 

Continue to have horrific akathisia.  Pace for hours everyday in the am.  Usually lifts in the afternoon.  Holding steady at 95mg Seroquel and 15mg Remeron.  Have come to the realization that akathisia is still caused by klonopin ct and I need to not taper anything else until that heals.  Will use akathisia as a barometer to know when to begin liquid suspension taper.

 

THinking of tapering both meds at same time but super slow.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks,

 

Chris

[RubyTuesday]

I would not taper two drugs at once, even super slow. I would only taper 1 at a time.

I have akathisia every time I do a dose reduction, from Remiron (done), Seroquel, and Lamictal (not done.) 

it is awful. this is what I wrote in my "story": 

 

One afternoon in June of 1996 I swallowed 20 milligrams of Paxil. After a drunk driving accident involving my 3 year old boy, perpetrated by his father, I walked into a strange doctor's office & talked to the doctor for about 10 minutes. The doctor gave me some samples of Paxil in bright yellow plastic packets.

I spent most of the night on the telephone with Suicide Prevention. I felt like I was being pulled out of my skin, shaken, stirred, and electrocuted. I couldn't eat, sleep, or sit in a chair for longer than a few seconds. They call this “akathisia.” Also, I broke out in a bright red rash all over my body.

I resolved never to take another anti depressant as long as I lived. 

[tgirl]

******, how are you doing?

[JanCarol]

Hey Satch,

 

How are you?  I've been reading your thread, and you've been through so much!  My last thought (when you switched from 100mg to 4x25mg Seroquel) is that you might want to space them out during the day.  Surely daytime sleepiness is better than akathisia?

 

You asked, some time ago:

 

Also how rare is tardive dyskinesia from seroquel. 

 

You are not on a very high dose.

 

You have not been on it for years and years and years.

 

You are not very much of a risk for tardive dyskinesia. 

 

For comparison:  I know people on 600-1200 mg of Seroquel and who have been on them for 10-20 years.

 

One has tardive dyskinesia and akathisia, but she can still hide it with intense physical exercise.  Another has a milder form which manifests as "the shakes" - she has been on 600 mg for 10 years (sometimes, however, taking more PRN with anxiety, up to 1200 mg).  Others are "absent, flat, brain dead" but show no signs of tardive dyskinesia.

 

So when I look at the cases I know personally - I was on 25 mg for 5 years.  I had absolutely no manifestations at all, other than flat affect, anhedonia, the usual side effects of being on a neuroleptic.

 

You are not a high risk. And again, I'm sorry you are suffering from such severe symptoms.

 

Then, you asked:

 

Is there any place on the planet that helps people gently get off meds and provides a place to stay and be cared for?

 

Now that's a winning idea!

 

I know of weekend retreats, and you have to live in the right part of the world, and have the money - but they still don't coddle you and comfort you while you go through the withdrawal like the Quakers would have in the 1800's.

 

Then - it looks like you FOUND one when you said:

 

Have moved to Alaska to be taken care of by a couple of people from Mad in America.

 

Is this the Alaska Soteria house?

 

This should be helpful!  Please, let us know what it is like?

 

How are you going?  Have you come through the other side with some Soteria style TLC?

[Martina23]

Hello Satch,

 

I would also like if we in Austria had a place where they can take of you when in withdrawal. Glad that in America there is one. We have none. Only stupid psychiatrists who it is better to avoid.  It is very  hard to take all the responsibility for your withdrawal by yourself. Especially when today I feel a bit in the wave - harm OCD over the roof. I dont know if it will be ever away but I would give for it everything. Sometimes I think that the time is going and going and I am only missing more and more time which I could enjoy with nice things and the time is limited.

 

This was quite pessimistic, I wanted to write something optimistic instead, but the nostalgy overcame me.

 

I hope you are ok.

[ChessieCat]

Hi Satch,

 

Thought I'd move this to your thread as it will probably get noticed more.

 

Getting ready to start a taper off of Seroquel and Remeron.  When I tried in the past the transition to liquid caused a bad uptick in wd,  just wondering if there are any benefits to either method.

 

Thanks everyone

 

I think liquid and dry are much of a muchness.  I imagine it would be the accuracy and consistency that is more important.  Other people have been advised if they are changing from one to the other to do a cross over, taking a smaller dose of the current type and making up the dose with the new type and then a bit smaller dose of the current and more of the new type.  CC

[AliG]

Hi Satch ,

 

This could help  :  http://Using a combination of tablets or capsules and liquid Rather than switch directly to an all-liquid dose, you may wish to take part of your dose in liquid and part in lower-dose tablets or capsules, gradually converting to all liquid as you get to lower dosages. This can be very convenient and reduce any problems switching from one form of the drug to another. If your doctor prescribes liquid and tablets or capsules at the same time, most likely, he or she will have to indicate "divided doses" in the prescriptions to get the drugs covered by insurance.

 

Also  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5301-tips-for-tapering-off-remeron-mirtazapine/

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2207-taking-multiple-psych-drugs-which-drug-to-taper-first/

 

It might help to reread some of these links. I would concentrate on tapering one drug at a time, if it were me. I think it is simpler, and then you can ascertain your symptoms  more easily , with less complication.

 

Best wishes ,

Ali