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Cdav

How to explain withdrawal to therapist who doesn't understand

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Cdav

Hi!

 

Any ideas on how I can make my therapist believe me about withdrawal syndrome? 

 

Is there an article someone could refer me to directed to counsellors/therapists so they can give the appropriate help?

 

My therapist (Gestalt therapist) has helped me with many things about my life. But she believes my depression is a chemical illness I have to accept and take control of forever with medication. She still does not believe many of my problems in life have stemmed from withdrawal. She doesn't even understand what withdrawal is. When I complain about withdrawal symptoms, she thinks I am exaggerating or that it's in my head. When I've told her I have suicidal thoughts, she dismisses it as me being too dramatic. 

 

I've tried other therapists, but they are even worse. 

 

Any suggestions?


-Effexor 150 mgs (2001-2009). Severe withdrawal symptoms during and after tapering for 6 months.  

-Pristiq 50 mg (2009-2012) Tapered over a year. Worst year of my life. 

-Prozac 20 mg (2012) Tapered over 6 moths to ease withdrawal. Still had severe WD symptoms. 

- (2012-2014) Doctor tried more than 20 medications for depression and WD, leaving me hypersensitive, and in protracted withdrawal. 

- Most debilitating symptoms during protracted withdrawal have been deep depression, anxiety, brain zaps, fatigue, akathisia, twitching, headaches and terrible PMS. 

-January 2015: Started Lamictal 12.5 mg, increased to 25 mg.- Bad reaction when updosed to 50 mg. Stopped. 

-February 2015: Doctor tried new antidepressant Brintellix - Horrible reaction. Discontinued completely. Severe AKATHISIA started.

-March 2015:  Started TMS therapy (Transcranial magnetic stimulation) for severe depression. Didn't work. 

-July 23-August 12: Had 10 ECT sessions which took away my protracted withdrawal symptoms including: akathisia, brain zaps, muscle twitches, fatigue and depression. Stopped medications. 

-September 2015: Experiencing bouts of depression again and muscle twitching. 

-March 2016: Started 20 mg Nortryptiline for depression. It helped. 

-August 2016: Slowly tapering Nortryptiline. 

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dalsaan

Hi Cdav,

 

My first response is to say walk away.  That is because I have a very low tolerance threshold for ignorant practitioners that want to reassure me I am misguided in my understanding.  I walk into appointments and tell them the support I want and If they dont want to engage that I thank them for their time.

 

But, if you do want to keep working with this person you could provide them with copies of or links to the some of the literature that is now available eg - http://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/drugs-and-treatments/medication-stopping-or-coming-off/planning-withdrawal/#.VGq8F_SUfbw

 

But, be prepared to cut your therapist from the plan if she is not on board.   The chemical imbalance theory is so discredited now. 

 

D


Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist.

Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014.

Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September.

Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015.

Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15).

Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past.

 

DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017

 

>My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan

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Cdav

Hi Dalsaan, thank you for your advice and the link you provided. 

 

Yes, my last session left me so frustrated and angry I am thinking about walking away and keep looking. But since she has helped me with many issues about my past.  I wanted to give it one more try and see if she is open to understand my condition and try to support me once I show her more information about withdrawal syndrome and explain her the kind of support and reassurance I need. Because I do believe many of my problems in life right now are due to withdrawal (or magnified by withdrawal). 

 

If it doesn't work out, well I'll just take the good things I learned from her, and try to move on and find support somewhere else. 

 

Thank you for the advice. 


-Effexor 150 mgs (2001-2009). Severe withdrawal symptoms during and after tapering for 6 months.  

-Pristiq 50 mg (2009-2012) Tapered over a year. Worst year of my life. 

-Prozac 20 mg (2012) Tapered over 6 moths to ease withdrawal. Still had severe WD symptoms. 

- (2012-2014) Doctor tried more than 20 medications for depression and WD, leaving me hypersensitive, and in protracted withdrawal. 

- Most debilitating symptoms during protracted withdrawal have been deep depression, anxiety, brain zaps, fatigue, akathisia, twitching, headaches and terrible PMS. 

-January 2015: Started Lamictal 12.5 mg, increased to 25 mg.- Bad reaction when updosed to 50 mg. Stopped. 

-February 2015: Doctor tried new antidepressant Brintellix - Horrible reaction. Discontinued completely. Severe AKATHISIA started.

-March 2015:  Started TMS therapy (Transcranial magnetic stimulation) for severe depression. Didn't work. 

-July 23-August 12: Had 10 ECT sessions which took away my protracted withdrawal symptoms including: akathisia, brain zaps, muscle twitches, fatigue and depression. Stopped medications. 

-September 2015: Experiencing bouts of depression again and muscle twitching. 

-March 2016: Started 20 mg Nortryptiline for depression. It helped. 

-August 2016: Slowly tapering Nortryptiline. 

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alizarin

The only experience I had was with a single therapist. She, too, thought my problem was a chemical imbalance and refused to 'help' me unless I was put on an anti-depressant. This is actually how I ended up on Remeron. So I'm sorry you have to deal with that but dalsaan is right. Just walk away. They're probably not going to be open minded enough to at least, broaden their perspective a bit.


Current Meds:

Klonopin 1.9 mg (anxiety /insomnia) 10 years, began taper then stopped. Currently forced to drop to 1.5 mg.

Remeron 7.5 mg (insomnia, nausea, GI issues) stopped taper

Propylthiouracil 25 mg (for Graves')

 

Past Meds:

Lexapro 10 mg, CT 1.5 years ago without researching. Taken for 9 years.

Trazadone 300 mg (insomnia), lowered BP, suffered vasovagal syncope, a fall required surgery for dental trauma.

Propranolol, 10 mg, during hospitalization for hyperthyroidism, 3.5 weeks, then switched to Cartia for 3 weeks. Dr C/T both.

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mammaP

I would recommend 'Anatomy of an epidemic' by Robert Whitaker to her, if she reads that she may think differently.

On the other hand she might not want to read such a book because she believes in the chemical imbalance theory.

My therapist had experience of being a psychiatric nurse and had seen people in withdrawal so understood what I

was saying to her. I managed to educate her a little which was great but when I moved away she said I should

register with a doctor immediately in case I had an episode and needed to go into hospital! She obviously didn't take

it all in but did understand withdrawal better after seeing me! 

 

If she cant give you what you need then I agree you should walk away, just be glad for what she did give you but there

is no point in staying if she is going to 'feed' you junk 'food'!


**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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Cdav

Thank you Alizarin and mammaP, for your advice. 

 

I went to my appointment and explained her everything, showed her some information. And she did believe me now. I know she can't understand the complexity of the whole thing, but she's trying to help me keep my thoughts positive and live this day by day. Because I do get overwhelmed and very pessimistic sometimes, and she helps with that. 

 

But stil this site and forums has been godsend. Just knowing there other people going exactly through what I'm going, and sharing help and support, has helped me a lot. 

 

Thank you


-Effexor 150 mgs (2001-2009). Severe withdrawal symptoms during and after tapering for 6 months.  

-Pristiq 50 mg (2009-2012) Tapered over a year. Worst year of my life. 

-Prozac 20 mg (2012) Tapered over 6 moths to ease withdrawal. Still had severe WD symptoms. 

- (2012-2014) Doctor tried more than 20 medications for depression and WD, leaving me hypersensitive, and in protracted withdrawal. 

- Most debilitating symptoms during protracted withdrawal have been deep depression, anxiety, brain zaps, fatigue, akathisia, twitching, headaches and terrible PMS. 

-January 2015: Started Lamictal 12.5 mg, increased to 25 mg.- Bad reaction when updosed to 50 mg. Stopped. 

-February 2015: Doctor tried new antidepressant Brintellix - Horrible reaction. Discontinued completely. Severe AKATHISIA started.

-March 2015:  Started TMS therapy (Transcranial magnetic stimulation) for severe depression. Didn't work. 

-July 23-August 12: Had 10 ECT sessions which took away my protracted withdrawal symptoms including: akathisia, brain zaps, muscle twitches, fatigue and depression. Stopped medications. 

-September 2015: Experiencing bouts of depression again and muscle twitching. 

-March 2016: Started 20 mg Nortryptiline for depression. It helped. 

-August 2016: Slowly tapering Nortryptiline. 

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NewMe

Forgive me for asking - but this isn't this stuff she should have learned somewhere along the way?. She may need to crawl out from under the rock from which she is living in denial from. It almost seems ironic to have to offer a primer on such a deep topic that requires quite a bit of knowledge on. She already attended school. You can offer some insight but that is a lot to have to teach the teacher. I hope she pays you for the visit! Considering SI dramatic is a slap in the face and flies in the face of respect. I could not find an ounce of reciprocal respect for such a person. I would look elsewhere. The "help" she gave you in dealing with past issues is not worth your mental health as you move through this now. Its like the classic "bad boyfriend (or bad girlfriend). You don't stay with a person just because they were helpful once if they no longer serve you now. She has a long way to go IMO. 


I'M A WEANER!  :D 
atavan PRN ,Paxil approx 20 yrs ago for major depression
Switched to Klonopin PRN through to current
Paxil wore out
Changed to Effexor 
Depakote added
enormous weight gain - flat affect - led to depression - dropped depakote
Dropped Effexor, changed to Paxil 
PDoc added mixed salts amphetamines for ADHD - took for 2 yrs - was ok at first but had to cut as symptoms too intense -  then the crash was too much. STOPPED
Vyvanse started in 2013 (APRIL) - more smooth than IR amphetamine tabs---Have not used vyvanse daily in full amt since May 2013 

Paxil CT withdrawal 10/2012  :wacko:  Klonopin CT WD

Switched Klonopin to Xanax prn  - too strong

WD CT from XANAX after taking for a while - it was awful but can be done if you hold on!

Back to Klonopin PRN - working very hard to avoid taking it at all. 

Effexor 37.5 started 02/2013, 75mg by 03/2013, 150mg by 05/2012 (approx)  :blush:

Effexor 150mg 3/10/2014 Microtaper -3beads  :unsure:

3/11/2014-4beads ,3/12/14 - 5, 3/13/14 -6, 3/15/14 - 7, 3/18 - 8, 3/22 - 10, 3/24 - 12, 4/6 - 13, 4/7 - 14, 4/11 - 16 - on 4/19 ran out of brand took generic. Bad move. Back on brand on 4/20 and updosed 2 beads. 5/1 - 15, 5/6 - 16, 5/9 -17, 55/10 -17, 5/15 -18, 5/21 -19, 5/24 -20, 6/3 - 21, 6/6 -23, 6/13 -24,6/19- 25, 6/21 -26, 6/25 -27

6/28 -28, 6/29 -30, 7/3 -34, 7/8 -35, 7/17 -36, 7/30 -41,7/31 -42, 8/2 -43, 8/3 -44, 8/5 -45, 8/14 -48, 8/26-50, 9/24 -53, 10/24 -55, 12/1 -57, (lost the tally sheet, thus taper info for some of it), 4/19-63, 4/26-64, 4/30-65 Switched to wt reduction - now @ -.068, 7/14 -.070, August 2015 -.074, between Sept & October 10 -.077, Nov. -.078(feeling great), -.090 as of 1/10/16, down to  -.101 since January 2016 (it is now 6/24/16), -.105 as of 8/13/16
 
 

Ladies, please don't underestimate the possibility of perimenopause. The symptoms can be similar to, may intensify & in some cases mimic protracted w/d from ssri's & benzo's. 

 

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Altostrata

Truly. The best doctors of any sort listen to their patients and learn from them.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Wildflower0214

This is what I have been dealing with. My counselor now has yet to educate himself on the topic. He believes me, but has done no research. He just takes my word for it. But, I want to find another therapist, but I honestly do not have the energy to explain it all again. This guy has been there for the whole ride, over ten months.


2005-Zoloft bad reaction.....2006-Lexepro......2012-Upped Lexepro.......2013-Upped Lexepro......2/2014- Attempted Taper Lexepro...2/2014- Updosed Lexepro.......3/2014-Ativan.....5/2014- CT switch from Lexpro to Effexor.....

5/2014-7/2014-Tapered Ativan from 1mg to .25mg.....6/2014-Bad reaction to Effexor........7/2014- Rapid taper Effexor every other day......7/5/2014- Off Effexor.......7/2014-12/2014 - Ativan .25mg.......12/25/2014 -Taper Ativan by 4% due to paradoxical reaction .24mg...11/18/2015-Taper Ativan 1% CURRENTLY ON: .2376mg Ativan taken in 6 .0396mg doses.

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Blackstar

There is no way to explain withdrawal to them. In their eyes, they're the doctor and you're the patient. If they don't believe it in the first place you won't be able to convince them otherwise. The more you try to convince them of something they don't 'see' the more they'll brush it off. That's my experience.

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erer

I cannot imagine where to even begin to try and convince a therapist in wd existing. I truly believe that in my hospital file (that my new therapist I'm going to see on Wednesday has access to) has it written in block letters and glitter marker "PARANOID ABOUT DRUGS! BE AWARE!".


  • 2,5 years of slowly tapering down Cymbalta from 60 mg. Then tried going from 8,44 mg to 1 mg in 8 days. (April 1st 2015). That's when the real hell started. Reinstated. Didn't help. I was added Ativan (2 mg 2 times a day for relentless akathisia that started with jumping Cymbalta). For years had been taking Zopitin 7,5 mg and Stilnox 10 mg for I had not been able to sleep naturally since the 1st day I started Cymbalta). Used to take Xanax occasionally.
  • All of the above were stopped cold turkey when I was hospitalized in the beginning of May 2015.
  • Prior to that I have been on and off the whole spectrum of different AD-s for 15 years (since I was 17).

My introduction.

 

Tapering:

  • Olanzapine (starting point 2,1 mg): Jan 2016  /---/ April 2018 0 mg. (From 2,1 mg to 0 mg in 1y 3mo).
  • Diazepam (starting at 5 mg) : switching to liquid May 2018;  4,6 mg (June 2018) /---/ 0 mg (Feb 2020) (From 10 to 5 - nobody knows, from 5 to 0 in 1 y 10 mo)
  • Valdoxan (starting at 25 mg): switching to liquid (Feb 2019) /---/ 12,5 mg (Feb 2020)

 

Supplements: D3, turmeric, probiotics, magnesium threonate + glycinate, B12+folate, omega 3.

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Altostrata

If you cannot communicate with your therapist or feel that he or she is condescending to you, you need to find another therapist.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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erer

If you cannot communicate with your therapist or feel that he or she is condescending to you, you need to find another therapist.

I only wish it were so simple. For example, here in Estonia there are no, none whatsoever, doctors who admit or believe AD WD exists. Same goes for therapists. To my knowledge the information that such a thing even exists has not reached them. Even if it were they would say what I was constantly told in hospital: anxiety can cause those symptoms. This is what they believe.

 

Also there are not many affordable therapists to choose from. The one appointed by the hospital is covered by my insurance. Some holistic therapist who practices a more alternative approach could be found (but not easily), but I cannot afford them.

 

I will just have to try and avoid the subject of meds with this new therapist. Doesn't seem like a good basis for a therapeutic relationship, not being able to talk about what influences my life the most, I know.


  • 2,5 years of slowly tapering down Cymbalta from 60 mg. Then tried going from 8,44 mg to 1 mg in 8 days. (April 1st 2015). That's when the real hell started. Reinstated. Didn't help. I was added Ativan (2 mg 2 times a day for relentless akathisia that started with jumping Cymbalta). For years had been taking Zopitin 7,5 mg and Stilnox 10 mg for I had not been able to sleep naturally since the 1st day I started Cymbalta). Used to take Xanax occasionally.
  • All of the above were stopped cold turkey when I was hospitalized in the beginning of May 2015.
  • Prior to that I have been on and off the whole spectrum of different AD-s for 15 years (since I was 17).

My introduction.

 

Tapering:

  • Olanzapine (starting point 2,1 mg): Jan 2016  /---/ April 2018 0 mg. (From 2,1 mg to 0 mg in 1y 3mo).
  • Diazepam (starting at 5 mg) : switching to liquid May 2018;  4,6 mg (June 2018) /---/ 0 mg (Feb 2020) (From 10 to 5 - nobody knows, from 5 to 0 in 1 y 10 mo)
  • Valdoxan (starting at 25 mg): switching to liquid (Feb 2019) /---/ 12,5 mg (Feb 2020)

 

Supplements: D3, turmeric, probiotics, magnesium threonate + glycinate, B12+folate, omega 3.

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rapunzel2

I cannot imagine where to even begin to try and convince a therapist in wd existing. I truly believe that in my hospital file (that my new therapist I'm going to see on Wednesday has access to) has it written in block letters and glitter marker "PARANOID ABOUT DRUGS! BE AWARE!".

LOL. it would be funny, if it wasn't so awful.

I hope it all changes... one day. it has to. 


in 2002- 0,5 tablet cipramil for half a year, ended it uneventfully. in 2006 - citalopram for half a year, ended in horrific state, ditched the drugs CT. 2007-2008 not feeling well but drug free. in 2008 prozac 20mg + quetiapine 25mg. 2009 tried to stop, ended up in hole after couple of months, started zoloft. 2009-2011 zoloft 50mg. went to 25mg in 2011 summer, it resulted in half a year horrible suffering. reinstated, changed drugs, nothing happened. by 2012 beginning suddenly felt great and CT meds. after 4 months came suddenly most horrible human suffering that's possible. was started on prozac and questiapine. started tapering slowly, GFCF diet and Hardy Nutritionals vitamins in 2013 summer. 

current medications: 1) fluoxetine and quetiapine since Aug 2012; 2) Daily Essential Nutrients by Hardy Nutritionals 7 capsules / since May 2013 + omega3; 3) Gluten-free-casein-free diet since june 2013

 

Started withdrawing slowly since april 2013. Mostly around 10% cuts. 

April'13 - March'14: fluoxetine 40mg -> 19,5mg; quetiapine 50mg -> 40mg
April'14-March'15: fluoxetine 19,5mg -> 14,4mg; quetiapine 40mg -> 22mg

April'15-March'16: fluoxetine 14,4mg -> 7,4mg; quetiapine 22mg -> 15mg

April'16-March'17: fluoxetine 7,4mg -> 5,0mg; quetiapine 15mg -> 7,25mg

April'17-March'18: fluoxetine 5,0mg -> 4,0mg; quetiapine 7,25mg -> 0 (as of 1st Feb 2018)!!!!

April´18-March´19: fluoxetine 4,0mg - > 2,3mg

Finished my taper on 23 July 2019!!!!!! ZERO drugs in my system!!! jumped off from 1,4mg fluoxetine which was unfortunately too high jump-off point for me. suffering severe withdrawal since. delayed onset came 4 months after jumping.

 

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Altostrata

You don't need to convince your therapist about withdrawal to have a therapeutic relationship. For example, you can start a "what-if" discussion: "What if my perception of what's going on in my own body is correct and the doctors are wrong?"

 

This can lead into how stressful it is for you to maintain your self-respect and autonomy in the face of institutional opposition. Your therapist should be able to speak honestly and intelligently about that.

 

Please also consider this adage: "Stop looking in the garbage can for your supper."

 

Could be your therapist simply cannot give you what you want, whether it's validation, emotional support, or re-parenting. Discussing this with your therapist could lead to real existential breakthroughs for you. You will be faced with "How can I get what I want?"

 

There are ways to make time with even a stupid or hostile therapist into a productive learning experience for yourself.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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bluebalu86

That's the main reason I haven't gone back to my therapist since the WD fiasco. Her husband works for drug companies and researches meds and she is pro-meds and thinks they're safe. She'll never believe me and tell me this is all anxiety and paranoia and that I blame all my problems on drugs. If I go to therapy, I will have to look for someone else. And I know I need therapy. 


I suffer from depression, anxiety, pure-o ocd, and panic attacks since 2004. Been on multiple different psychiatric drugs since 2006. Never had a significant WD problem before, only brain zaps for a month and then I'd be fine...............Been on Cipralex (escitalopram) 15 mg and Fluanxol (flupentixol) 1 mg since Sep 2014. Stopped taking the Cipralex after a fast 20-day taper.Took the last 5 mg Cipralex on Feb 5th, 2015. Then took Seroxat (paroxetine) 10 mg for a week, and stopped it too. Severe WD started suddenly on Feb 16th. RI 5 mg Cipralex on Feb 18th, 2015. RI worked and was relatively stable for a while................April 7 - decreased Fluanxol from 1 mg to 0.5 mg and took it at this dose for a week. - BIG MISTAKE; April 13 - WD starts creeping in; April 14 - RI full dose of Fluanxol 1 mg => severe muscle twitching and jerking when trying to relax and fall asleep, overwhelming sense of doom, dread, terror, and horror, insomnia, hoping to stabilize.
Tried doing a 10% cut off Fluanxol in the end of May for a few days, but quickly updosed to full dose because the twitching returned.
Experiencing waves and windows in the following months.
Unsuccessful brief taper attempt of Fluanxol by 5% on November 1st. Symptoms hit the next day. Too scared to continue tapering, reinstate full dose.
Severe crash in November after stupidly trying a barbiturate on November 9th. Grave mistake. Sense of unshakable inescapable internal torture, like my soul is in hell being tortured, terror/horror/dread/doom (probably akathisia?) that gets especially bad when trying to relax and fall asleep, muscles twitch, jerk and move on their own, shaking, insomnia, can't eat, confusion, disorientation, brain not working normally. Never felt so bad in my entire life. Never experiment with other meds while in WD! Praying to God I stabilize and get back to my baseline.
December - things getting even worse.

January - unbearable suffering

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freespirit

 

There are ways to make time with even a stupid or hostile therapist into a productive learning experience for yourself.

 

Maybe so Alto...but it's the last way I'd want to spend my money. The best learning experience under those circumstances for me was walking away..and finding far better ways to create what I needed.  


Remeron for depression. Started at 7.5 mg. in 2005. Gradual increases over 8 years, up to 45 mg. in 2012.Began tapering in June 2013. Went from 45 to 30 mg in the first 3-4 months. Held for a couple of months.Started tapering by 3.75 mg every month or 2, with some longer holding periods. Eventually went down to 3.75 mg. about April 2014. Stopped taking Remeron August 2014. Developed issues with histamine a week after stopping--symptoms reduced through diet and a.few supplements. Currently having issues with a few foods. Most of the histamine intolerance has resolved or is at least, in remission.

Current Medications: Natural Dessicated Thyroid 22.5 mg/day

Current Supplements: Vitamin C, D, K2, B12, Quercetin, CoQ10, Tart Cherry, Probiotic, Phytoplankton oil, magnesium lotion, oil, or epsom salts bath daily, CBD, and cannabis.What has helped me most: qi gong, exercise, healthy diet, meditation, IV vitamins, homeopathy, massage, acupuncture, chiropractic, music, and cuddling my cats..

My introduction: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8459-mirtazapine-withdrawal-freespirit/#entry144282

Please note: I am not a therapist or medical practitioner. Any suggestions offered come solely from my personal experience in recovering from childhood trauma, therapy, and AD use. Please seek appropriate care for yourself.

 

“After a cruel childhood, one must reinvent oneself. Then re-imagine the world.”
Mary Oliver
 

 

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Tilly

 

 

There are ways to make time with even a stupid or hostile therapist into a productive learning experience for yourself.

 

Maybe so Alto...but it's the last way I'd want to spend my money. The best learning experience under those circumstances for me was walking away..and finding far better ways to create what I needed.  

 

I absolutely agree, Free. Just because a therapist is certified, or maybe precisely because they are certified, they have the power to do much more harm than good. If a therapist is bad, inadequate or providing a generally poor service, vote with your feet & purse and go elsewhere.

 

Would you stay with a bad hairdresser / car mechanic / dentist in the hopes of gaining a good outcome (eventually)? I think not.

 

Our emotions are much more fragile than our other 'service needs' and need to be treated with care & skill. Follow your instinct. Let your therapist prove themselves worthy of your care taking before you entrust any part of your psyche to them. 


1999 - 2004 Paroxetine 20mg  -> 2004 - 2007 Citalopram 20mg -> 2007 -  short term Trazedone use (insomnia) -> 2007 - 2009 Fluoxetine 20mg  ->

2009 - Jan 2012 Citalopram 20mg  (Spring / Summer 2012 protracted withdrawal & related agoraphobia) -> 2012 - September Restarted Citalopram - unbearable start up effects. Discontinued in under 1 week -> Oct 12 -   October 2014 Escitalopram - 10mg prescribed. Started on 5mg and worked up to 10mg in 2.5mg increments  -> Oct 2014  - 5mg; 30/03/15 2.5mg; 15/04/15 3.5mg; 20/05/15 2.9mg;  19/09/15 2.8mg; 30/10/15 2.7mg; 13/11/15 2.6mg. Holding until March.

Diet:  mostly pescatarianl & lots of veg. Weekly offal for b vitamins.  Turmeric, nigella seeds, avocados, apple cider vinegar, coconut products daily. Lots of fluids: water, lemon juice, coconut water, herbal & green tea (decaffeinated).

Supplements: vitamin C 4000mg, Omega 3 fish oil - high DPA & EHA, vitamin E 400iu, vitamin D3 5000mg (Winter only - from sun in Spring / Summer), probiotics.

Current Symptoms: chronic fatigue, erratic sleep, extreme photophobia, eye floaters, noise sensitivity, tinnitus, cognitive & speech difficulties, dizziness, irregular gait, poor co ordination, severe facial and upper body muscle tension, head and neck pressure.

Coping Strategies: good nutrition, cooking, gardening & growing my own food, cycling, dancing, yoga, photography, sewing & creative pursuits, self massage, pampering, meditation, journalling, nature, cuddling cats & humans, laughter & humour, gratitude, self care, aromatherapy, audio books, word games & believing in myself, my potential and my future.

 

"Everything I need is within me" - Shakti Gawain

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Altostrata

Very true, Tilly and freespirit! That may be the life lesson one needs to learn -- walk away from a situation that gives you nothing, instead of trying to make it work.


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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ColdTurkeyinBoston

Suggest they spend some time browsing through this site.

 

 

Earlier today I sent this to my talk therapist:

 

You likely know of it, but last night I discovered an amazing resource, survivingantidepressants.org

 

It’s international, very supportive, and seemingly has some quite knowledgeable people.

 

Their primary focus seems to be how to slowly get off stuff and deal with withdrawal symptoms.  After reading some of the histories I feel fortunate indeed.

 

==>>  It’s possible that doctors dislike (distrust?) web forums, but I see the main benefit as being info from people who have actually dealt with the medications prescribed by the same doctors who have no first hand experience of them.

 

 

 
 

 


CTiB

 

All of the AD's I've tried have been uniformly ineffective, and I took none longer than ~2 months, so I don't feel listing them would contribute anything - not to mention that I don't have records.

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Mort81

I agree to walk away. It only compounds the problem trying to convince a stubborn therapist or doctor. Often these so called professionals just label you even worse. Hopefully you can find someone knowledgeable but if not dont waste your money.


Was on 30mg (Lexapro) for 7-8yrs20mg for 3 months (This was my choice my Doc wanted me to drop much faster)15 mg 2week10mg 2 weeks 5 mg 1 week0 since August 24th . PPI Dexlant  30 mg taper has begun. Cutting 20% currently.  using zantac as needed.  Benzo is currently 0.10mg 

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Martina23

Therefore I am afraid to go here to the therapist. In the best case they dont know that the drugs cause the problems and in the worst they can be even dangerous as they can cause also your admission to the hospital if they believe that you can harm yourself or others. I find the whole idea ridiculous. When I have to teach the therapist on my diagnose, what is then the therapist for?


05/2013 Lyrica 100 mg / per day for pain + PGAD resulting from caesarian delivery11/2014 started to taper: 50 mg per day/ for one week then c/tafter one month reinstated at 50 mg /per days of 10 July 2015 drug free-

symptoms OCD

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Mort81

My opinion is that if you dont find a therapist educated in WD than its very counter productive to go to a therapist. However I am sure there must be some that are not educated about WD but willing to learn and support the emotional side of it. But my fear is you might have to go to 50 different people before you find one.


Was on 30mg (Lexapro) for 7-8yrs20mg for 3 months (This was my choice my Doc wanted me to drop much faster)15 mg 2week10mg 2 weeks 5 mg 1 week0 since August 24th . PPI Dexlant  30 mg taper has begun. Cutting 20% currently.  using zantac as needed.  Benzo is currently 0.10mg 

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Rockingchaircat

What I learned from Therapists- that there are junk Therapists just like there are junk Doctors. And unfortunately, all too often, Medications are the easy way out for them.  Luckily I managed to stumble across a Therapist who was a non-prescribing Therapist. 

Which was of the criteria I used in picking one out. He wasn't easy to find- but he's as good as gold.

 

Finding one- it's like a Princess trying to find her Prince: "You have to kiss a lot of frogs to find your Prince."  Keep looking until you find one.

 

The nice thing about it- not only was he a non-prescribing Therapist, he was against prescribing anything. He felt that meds, were part and parcel of the problem. And as such another phrase comes to mind: "When your only tool is a Hammer, all your problems start to look like a nail."

And THAT is the problem with the Psychiatric folks.  They're all too used to dealing with depression by prescribing a pill. Anything that doesn't include a pill is often derided as "New Age-y", and as such is often ignored or belittled. Perhaps it's time to find one of them?


1)Zoloft- 6/99 to 8/04 2)Escitalopram- 8/04 to 8/10 3)Citalopram 8/10 to 4/14 (C/T), 4)Paxil a week or so, 5)Wellbutrin a week or so, 6)Reinstated Citalopram- 9/14 to 7/15

Before Taper- Celexa/20 mg....Taper Start- 04/21/15- 15mg....05/26/15- 10 mg...06/22/15- 5 mg...07/18/15- 0mg. http://tinyurl.com/qjfoqe9 Ativan/Lorazepam use/taper 10/14 to 2/15- http://tinyurl.com/ljebp84

Baclofen- Intermittent use of from 2008 till 2014. Some use of Promethazine. Some use of Zofran. Clobetasol Propionate- for Lichen Planus. Some Flexeril use. 

Ativan- GABA,A receptor Agonist., Baclofen- GABA,B receptor Agonist., Celexa/Lexapro- Serotonin 5-HT1A Receptor Agonist., Zofran- Serotonin 5-HT3 Receptor Agonist..Promethazine- Histamine H1-Receptor Antagonist. Flexeril- Serotonin 5HT2a Antagonist.

 

My self imposed Amino Acid Therapy: Tyrosine 500mg 1xday, Theanine 200 mg 1xday, & Taurine 500 mg 2x day. (All neurotransitter pre-cursors)- seems to have helped me immensely. And of course- eating healthy, including Black Beans for the oligosaccharides for gut health.

 

The attempt to develop a sense of humor and to see things in a humorous light is some kind of trick learned while mastering the Art of Living. - Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning.

 

 

 

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Mort81

Ya they do exist but they are difficult to find.  Hopefully websites like this can provide people with options.


Was on 30mg (Lexapro) for 7-8yrs20mg for 3 months (This was my choice my Doc wanted me to drop much faster)15 mg 2week10mg 2 weeks 5 mg 1 week0 since August 24th . PPI Dexlant  30 mg taper has begun. Cutting 20% currently.  using zantac as needed.  Benzo is currently 0.10mg 

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Theon

When I went to my therapist telling him that prozac had caused me apathy, he told me that I was just depressed and that I had "too little dopamine in my brain"... I told him that my initial anxiety problems were nothing like that and that I felt that the prozac had been the cause and he told me that that was not possible since I was already 2 months after stopping it and that I could get on another ssri..... I didn't come back,

 

He is too arrogant and doesn't stop talking about dopamine and serononin as if peple are just a bunch of chemicals mixed together and everything could be explained by the "too much of this neurotransmitter causes this and too little causes that",, 


About me ------------------------ College student with a history of anxiety, excessive worrying and health anxiety.

April 2014 - May 2015----------    Prozac 20mg On and Off.  Second time on it I developed apathy, changes in personality, asexuality.

May 2015  -   July 2015-----------------  Tappering off prozac. Still no feelings,anhedonia, apathy, no libido, asexuality.

Current symptoms--------  pssd (asexuality in my case). Anxiety and depression developed some months afer stopping prozac, could have been caused by obsessing and beating myself up too much when I found myself unable to like girls again. The best thing to do with pssd (which in my case is asexuality) is accept it and move on.

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Phoenix76

Hi Cdav,

 

My first response is to say walk away.  That is because I have a very low tolerance threshold for ignorant practitioners that want to reassure me I am misguided in my understanding.  I walk into appointments and tell them the support I want and If they dont want to engage that I thank them for their time.

 

But, if you do want to keep working with this person you could provide them with copies of or links to the some of the literature that is now available eg - http://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/drugs-and-treatments/medication-stopping-or-coming-off/planning-withdrawal/#.VGq8F_SUfbw

 

But, be prepared to cut your therapist from the plan if she is not on board.   The chemical imbalance theory is so discredited now. 

 

D

I agree. When I quit Paxil for the third time, my doctor more or less hinted that there was no way I'd stay off them and that I was destined to use them for the rest of my life. But that was 4 years ago :) . I have re-joined the site as I now want to help my mother get clean of prozac.

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