Sauna?

[Romido]

Now that I understand more about this withdrawal reaction produced by our nervous systems, I have started reading about things that calm the nervous system and I keep reading about saunas. Has anyone tried that yet, and if so, how were the results?

 

I am thinking of giving it a try but the last time I went to my gym I had a panic attack symptom while I was there, but this might make me feel up to giving it another try.

[Altostrata]

Some people may find it relaxing, but others might find the heat and enclosed space distressing.

 

Many with withdrawal syndrome have heat intolerance.

 

If you try it, please let us know how you do.

[bruno2016]

Now that I understand more about this withdrawal reaction produced by our nervous systems, I have started reading about things that calm the nervous system and I keep reading about saunas. Has anyone tried that yet, and if so, how were the results?

 

I am thinking of giving it a try but the last time I went to my gym I had a panic attack symptom while I was there, but this might make me feel up to giving it another try.

 

I have been using a dry sauna for the last two years. I continued to use it during my fast taper and all-in-all think it helps me. For one, I know it is helping to sort of detox things out of my body, including antidepressants. Likewise, I too have read it is good for the nervous system. Just keep in mind that if you stay in there for over 10 minutes or so, you should probably take a good quality multi vit to replace the minerals lost in the sweat. I am already using vitamins and minerals from and orthomolecular place, but when I do the sauna, I take a multi mineral and trace mineral afterwords which make me feel great. Also, I did a consult with a nutritionist and she suggested I use niacin before going into the sauna as a way to open up the blood vessels and bring any toxins to the surface.

 

On a last note, there are times where after I do a bit of exercise and use the sauna that I feel bad. This may be due to withdrawal, may be due to the loss of minerals, electrolytes, etc but just keep in mind that this may happen. Also, from what I have read, if you have a lot of toxins in your body, then the sauna may bring them out and you may feel worse. So, perhaps you could avoid the niacin and just do light sauna therapy and see how you feel. Drink plenty of water.

[Altostrata]

I've tried to find references NOT from alternative medicine about the beneficial effects of a sauna on the parasympathetic (calming) nervous system.

 

Sauna treatment may have a role in detox treatment (so beloved of naturopathic practitioners) -- but we know that when you have withdrawal syndrome, detox treatments might be too stressful.

 

From what I've found, the heat stress from a sauna is NOT a good idea if you have withdrawal hypersensitivity.

 

J Cardiopulm Rehabil Prev. 2012 May-Jun;32(3):147-54.

Effects of sauna alone versus postexercise sauna baths on short-term heart rate variability in patients with untreated hypertension.

Gayda M, Bosquet L, Paillard F, Garzon M, Sosner P, Juneau M, Bélanger M, Nigam A.

 

Source

 

Cardiovascular Prevention and Rehabilitation Centre (Centre ÉPIC), Montreal Heart Institute, Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

 

Abstract http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22561416

 

PURPOSE:

 

We measured the effects of sauna bathing alone or a 30-minute exercise session followed by sauna bathing on short-term heart rate variability (HRV) in subjects with untreated hypertension.

 

METHODS:

 

Ten patients with untreated hypertension (age 59 ± 10 years) were randomly assigned to (1) a control resting session, (2) two 8-minute sauna-only sessions (S), or (3) a 30-minute aerobic exercise session at 75% of maximal heart rate followed by a sauna session (ES). Spectral analysis of HRV was measured with a Polar S810 heart rate monitor at baseline, during the sauna session, and 15 and 120 minutes after the sauna session (T15 and T120). A Fast Fourier Transformation was used to quantify the power spectral density of the low-frequency (LF) and high-frequency (HF) bands.

RESULTS:

 

For S and ES conditions, LF (NU, normalized unit) and LF/HF were significantly higher (P < .05 and P < .01) in the first and second sauna sessions, and HF (NU) was significantly lower (P < .05, first sauna). At baseline and T15 for S and ES versus control, LF (NU) and LF/HF were significantly higher (P < .05), and HF (NU) was significantly lower (P < .05), without any effect of the 30-minute exercise session.

CONCLUSIONS:

 

A single sauna session induced a significant alteration of autonomic cardiovascular control in patients with untreated hypertension, with an increased sympathetic and decreased parasympathetic drive. These alterations were normalized within 15 to 120 minutes after sauna bathing. Additional studies are required to document long-term effects of chronic sauna bathing on autonomic control in patients with hypertension.

 

___________________

J Neurol Sci. 2012 Aug 15;319(1-2):42-6. Epub 2012 May 28.

The effects of heat stress on physical functioning in persons with multiple sclerosis.

Romberg A, Ikonen A, Ruutiainen J, Virtanen A, Hämäläinen P.

 

Source

 

Masku Neurological Rehabilitation Centre, Masku, Finland. anders.romberg@ms-liitto.fi

 

Abstract http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22647586

 

Heat sensitivity is a well-recognised feature in multiple sclerosis (MS). However, little is known about how heat affects physical performance in persons with MS. The objective of the study was to evaluate the effects of short-term heat stress on physical functioning in persons with MS. Twenty-three heat-sensitive MS subjects and 19 healthy controls participated. Moderate heat exposure took place in a dry Finnish sauna. Measures of upper and lower extremity function, static and dynamic balance, and walking capacity were applied. Core body temperature was measured by a telemetric physiological monitoring system. Assessments were conducted before, immediately, 1 hour, and 1 day after the heat exposure. Subjects with MS showed a significantly (P=0.002) higher core body temperature than the controls following the heat stress. Performances in walking (P<0.001), chair rise (P=0.005) and functional reach (P=0.04) were poorer in MS subjects than in controls immediately after the heat. No prolonged heat effects were observed. An increase in ambient temperature causes a higher core body temperature rise in MS subjects than in healthy controls. This rise in temperature is associated with acute, but not prolonged detrimental effects on physical functioning.

 

___________________

Toxicol Ind Health. 2012 Sep;28(8):758-68. Epub 2011 Nov 16.

Methamphetamine exposure and chronic illness in police officers: significant improvement with sauna-based detoxification therapy.

Ross GH, Sternquist MC.

 

Source

 

1Utah Meth Cops Project, c/o American Detoxification Foundation, Salt Lake City, UT, USA.

 

Abstract http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22089658

 

BACKGROUND:

 

The medical literature reports health hazards for law enforcement personnel from repeated exposure to methamphetamine and related chemical compounds. Most effects appear transitory, but some Utah police officers with employment-related methamphetamine exposures developed chronic symptoms, some leading to disability. This report is of an uncontrolled retrospective medical chart evaluation of symptomatic officers treated with a sauna detoxification protocol designed to reduce the chronic symptoms and improve the quality of life.

 

METHODS:

 

Sixty-nine officers consecutively entering the Utah Meth Cops Project were assessed before and after a treatment program involving gradual exercise, comprehensive nutritional support and physical sauna therapy. Evaluations included pre- and post-treatment scores of the Research and Development Corporation (RAND) 36-item Short Form Health Survey (SF-36) in comparison with RAND population norms, pre- and post-treatment symptom score intensities, neurotoxicity scores, Mini-Mental Status Examination, presenting symptom frequencies and a structured evaluation of treatment program safety.

 

RESULTS:

 

Statistically significant health improvements were seen in the SF-36 evaluations, symptom scores and neurotoxicity scores. The detoxification protocol was well tolerated, with a 92.8% completion rate.

 

CONCLUSIONS:

 

This investigation strongly suggests that utilizing sauna and nutritional therapy may alleviate chronic symptoms appearing after chemical exposures associated with methamphetamine-related law enforcement activities. This report also has relevance to addressing the apparent ill effects of other complex chemical exposures. In view of the positive clinical outcomes in this group, broader investigation of this sauna-based treatment regimen appears warranted.

[Shanti]

Heat really aggravates my CNS symptoms but I don't know if that is typical of AD withdrawals. But I do know it happens in some CNS diseases. Heat makes me shaky, nauseous and increases my pain. I think a Sauna would do me in.

 

I think we're just sensitive to sensory input in general while our CNS is like that, and I don't think extra heat would be different.

[Altostrata]

Yes, I sure don't think you should put yourself through a sauna if heat makes you feel worse.

[basildev]

Hi everyone,

 

I was wondering if anybody has had a bad reaction or setback triggered by a sauna or hot yoga?

 

The reason I ask is because I restarted Bikram yoga at the beginning of May. It's a 90 minute class that's done in a very hot room. In short, you sweat a LOT.

 

I was only practising twice a week. But since that time I've very slowly declined and now I've found myself in a spectacular wave after making some progress with my recovery in the previous months.

 

I've read plenty of stories of people experiencing setbacks due to over-exerting themselves. I didn't think I was, but the hot room could add a whole new element to the mix.

 

Thanks in advance for your input.

[GiaK]

YES...overheating is not good for many of us...

 

I see it as simply another aspect of our hypersensitivity.

[Nikki]

BD

 

When I was tapering Lexapro I read posts on another site about sauna's causing a decline in feeling well. Alot of people are heat intolerant. And the sun can affect people as well.

 

I did not have this problem. Maybe because I live in a hot climate and have adapted.

[Barbarannamated]

I suspect that could speed the movement of drug from tissue / fat and out of body ("detox") which is opposite of goal of slow taper.

 

I hope you feel better soon.

[basildev]

that's interesting Barb,

 

If that is true then that would explain the awful relapse I have had.

 

Thank you, everybody, for your comments.

[Georgia]

Someone recently asked a similar question on another site. He felt worse after taking a hot shower, and said that a hot shower can raise serotonin levels. I don't know if the serotonin explanation has any validity, but I was interested because I've also had times when a hot shower brought on symptoms.

[Jemima]

I think Barb is on the right track, but in addition to that, I've found that any kind of extreme can give me a setback whether it's too much physical exertion or a stressful situation.

[basildev]

Jemima,

 

it's just occurred to me that I began doing hot yoga twice a week at the beginning of May.

 

Slowly my sleep has gotten worse since then. Now I can't sleep at all due to myoclonic jerks jolting me awake.

 

The last time this happened was very early in my withdrawal when I attempted to drop down from 20mg to 19mg. Withing 5 days the jerks were do bad I went back up to 20mg and then they disappeared almost overnight.

 

Do you think there'd be any point in going up 1mg to see if that helps?

[Jemima]

I think it would be best to stay where you are dosage-wise and skip the hot yoga for a long, long time. The fewer dosage changes, the better, IMO. If these problems don't diminish in, say, two weeks, maybe a 1 mg. increase should be considered.

 

I'm hoping that Alto will be along soon to offer some input as well.

[basildev]

thank you Jemima.

[Jemima]

You're welcome, Basildev. Doctor Jemima also prescribes a HUGE dose of patience to be taken as needed. Poor sleep isn't a life-threatening condition, so there's no need to get terribly anxious about it and do something immediately. Stay calm and carry on.

[Georgia]

Now I can't sleep at all due to myoclonic jerks jolting me awake.

 

 

Are you taking any supplements? I had myoclonic jerks (when falling asleep) that were made much worse by magnesium and vitamin D.

[basildev]

Doctor Jemima, you're a GEM!

 

Jemima, one more question: while I'm waiting for this to settle down, I was wondering if 5mg valium at night would harm me?

 

I am TERRIFIED of getting addicted to it but see no other solution other than to go without any sleep, which is not feasible since I work and need to function on a daily basis.

 

What are your thoughts? What is considered to be short-term use in this case?

[basildev]

Hey Georgia,

 

No I don't take any supplements. I'm hypersensitive to them all.

[alexjuice]

Basil,

 

My doctor has cautioned me against sauna at this time but wants me to trial it in the near future in modest amounts. She is concerned about detox overload.

[Jemima]

Doctor Jemima, you're a GEM!

 

Jemima, one more question: while I'm waiting for this to settle down, I was wondering if 5mg valium at night would harm me?

 

I am TERRIFIED of getting addicted to it but see no other solution other than to go without any sleep, which is not feasible since I work and need to function on a daily basis.

 

What are your thoughts? What is considered to be short-term use in this case?

 

Unfortunately, I'm nowhere close to being an expert on benzos. You might want to PM Rhi and ask, or ask in the benzo forum. I've heard anywhere from four days to two weeks before a person becomes addicted. It's probably a crapshoot, depending on individual sensitivity. Are you not sleeping at all or just getting less sleep than you'd like? Keep in mind that you may feel lousy during the day just because you've sweated so much Citalopram out of your system. Getting eight or nine hours of sleep may not make you feel all that much better. I suppose you could try one pill and see what happens.

[basildev]

Hey Jemima,

 

The past 2 nights I tossed and turned and was determined to see it through the night. When it became clear to me that it wasn't going to happen, it relented took 5mg of valium on both those nights.

 

If I were even able to sleep for a few hours I'd be ecstatic! But this was not the case.

 

I'm extremely mindful of developing dependence on benzos. But no sleep at all each night is not an option for me - that's why I considered the updose as an alternative to taking valium.

 

But I will do as you suggested and wait a few more days to see what happens.

 

Thank you for being there for me and answering my questions so quickly.

[basildev]

My doctor has cautioned me against sauna at this time but wants me to trial it in the near future in modest amounts. She is concerned about detox overload.

 

Alex - I am literally KICKING myself over this. How could I not see this coming?

[alexjuice]

Try to be kind to yourself Basil. This is not your fault. Hang in there as best you can.

 

 

My doctor has cautioned me against sauna at this time but wants me to trial it in the near future in modest amounts. She is concerned about detox overload.

 

Alex - I am literally KICKING myself over this. How could I not see this coming?

 

[basildev]

thanks Alex.

 

I'll try to:)

[Janie]

Regarding hot baths or sauna: I have noticed that it is a mistake to get into a hot tub/jacuzzi. The times I swim at the pool to feel better are NOT helpful IF I get into the hottub after swimming. It negates the benefits of the swim. This has happened twice to I will no longer use the hot tub. While the detox theory is interesting, I think it has more to do with inflammation. Cool water calms the body and brain and hot water inflames everything. That is why fish oil helps your mood. Anything to fight inflammation helps I think. We should avoid anything inflammatory - this includes many foods and I don't have a list handy but we should research that and eat an anti-inflammatory diet.

 

Basildev - I feel for you having such insomnia. I would try anything more natural to avoid any benzo. Try saffron, melatonin, chamomile tea, relaxation tapes. See the post on saffron, where I describe great benefits I've had with that. I think you might benefit too.

[basildev]

Hi Janie,

 

thank you for your kind words.

 

I have tried everything you have mentioned except the saffron.

 

I will look into that.

 

Thanks again:)

[Ssriwarrior]

Has anyone ever tried an infared sauna for WD symptoms??

 

I got the idea from this treatment program: 

http://www.alternativetomeds.com/alternative-mental-health-program-overview.html

 

Sounds like it is detoxifying and good for muscle pain.  Perhaps I'm still looking for a magic bullet?    I found a groupon to try it twice for $25 so I think I'm going to check it out...

 

 

 

[mammaP]

  This paragraph made alarm bells ring for me.... A gentle schedule for medication tapering is written which is on average carried out over an eight week period. This will allow time for the neurology to properly adjust and greatly lessens withdrawal symptoms. During chelative and other neurotoxin removal treatments, an individual on anti-anxiety medications and antipsychotics typically will start to sleep more and may even become drowsy, allowing for substantially less challenging withdrawal. We often find that it is not until a person has reduced their neurotoxicity and supplemented their neurochemistry that they can sustainably be off of psychiatric medication.  

 

 We have learned here that it is not a question of the toxins, it is the changes they make in the brain that leads to withdrawal. 

As for the sauna, many people feel ill with extreme heat, for myself even a hot bath makes me feel ill! Personally I would avoid it 

[Broken]

I looked into it a while ago, I'm game if you are.

[Broken]

Only concern I have is in the short term it could potentially make things worse, not sure how that's possible however I've thought that both on and off of antidepressants and it's continually proven that indeed it can be.

 

I'm definitely considering trying it.

 

Also trying to kick cigarettes and see how that impacts on my withdrawal symptoms. I feel low before and after I smoke so why smoke at all? Of course there is the addiction.

[JanCarol]

Well.  Let's see.  Scientologists are big on the "detox in a sauna" gig for narcotics and psych drugs alike.

 

Yep, there's the "overheat and I'm done" phenomenon.  As far as activating for people in withdrawal, it might be like exercise.  5 minutes is good, 6 minutes is too much (or whatever your body tells you).

 

There's more information about detox in infrared saunas here:  http://drlwilson.com/articles/sauna_therapy.htm

 

I use a single bulb infrared lamp; I have little 20 minute sessions where I hold my trouble spots up to the lamp.  I use it when I get boils on my skin (TMI, I know), I use it when I feel itchy, and I use it to ease pain.  It feels clean, cleaner than taking a shower.  Because it's a single bulb, I never use it enough to sweat.  I like it, and sometimes, when I have an itchy back or my knee hurts - I crave it.

 

There are some in functional medicine who use it - because we know that long term antibiotics are a bad plan - for chronic inflammatory infections, such as chronic lyme disease.  My doctor-friend's functional medicine doctor recommended she get one (because my doctor friend refuses the antibiotics based on the diagnosis by the expensive - and unreliable Lyme assays).  She got a medical grade cabinet for 2 with sound & entertainment system, as well as programmable near, middle and far infrared options.  She looks a lot better than the last time I saw her - she uses it for 30 min a day.  Her cabinet cost US$5,000.  She believes it is energizing her, and may be detoxing lyme spirochetes, even if they are imaginary.

 

I would recommend trying a session at a neighboring spa before trying to install one in your home.  

 

The advantage of being in the USA is you can legally build your own (the link above also has links to plans for building an ugly array for you to sit in front of.  Electrical codes here in Nanny Australia insist that an electrician must do this electrical stuff, and will probably warn you a million times about what a fire hazard it is to have heat bulbs anywhere near anything.  The cabinet my doctor-friend bought in the USA is available here - for AU $11,000.  

 

I'd love to have one.  People claim it is good for inflammation, pain, detox.  That it is superior to expensive (and dangerous) chelation therapy to remove heavy metals from your organs.  That it is more gentle than any other detox method.

 

But for now, because I'm not a wealthy woman, and my house is already full of stuff and I haven't figured out where to put such a thing - and I don't know that I can justify buying the equivalent of a "small car" on the basis of testimony.  I'll make do with my AU$35 single bulb lamp.

 

I have some materials here: let me see if I can link to them or upload them or something.....

[JanCarol]

Oh, and yeah, my local infrared sauna salesman is named Zen.  Need I say more?  

 

This woman has supposedly done some "medical trials"

http://www.amymyersmd.com/2014/01/6-benefits-of-infrared-sauna-therapy/

 

 

And Dave Asprey of Bulletproof Coffee loves them:

https://www.bulletproofexec.com/wendy-myers-heavy-metal-toxicity-mineral-power-coffee-enemas-205/

(warning, this link contains glowing recommendations for coffee enemas....)

 

4 Key Questions Zen.pdf

[JanCarol]

The brand involved here is Sunlighten.  Now, Dr. L. Wilson claims that the near infrared is what you need, while Sunlighten claims that only the far infrared is medically tested.

 

Why can't anything just be simple?

 

Anyhow, Sunlighten has cheaper versions than the $5k one I listed above (model name "Believe) if you only want far infrared, without near infrared options, called the "Euro".  It is less than half the price of the Cadillac, "Believe" M-Pulse.  

 

I am told (by my salesman named "Zen") that this is the only medical grade infrared available worldwide, and to beware cheap and dangerous knock offs from China.  This is the only sauna (besides the ugly hand-made boxes) manufactured in the USA.

 

More than you wanted to know?  I didn't mean to give a sales pitch, but since I received one so recently I thought I would share.

[JanCarol]

That said - detoxing is NOT what people in withdrawal need, exactly.  I cringe when Gotzsche talks about "detox centers."  I know he means well, but the drugs are gone in 2-6 weeks.  THEN the pain begins.

 

I have no idea what infrared - near or far - would do for budding neurogenesis, and restructuring collapsed brains.  Absolutely none.  And this is one of the more expensive toys to play with.