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Diagnosed with MDD? Worse after antidepressants? Researcher wants to talk to you!


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A psychiatrist I know and respect wants to do a study on iatrogenic depression -- depression made worse or caused by antidepressants.
 
This would be for presentation in a major psychiatric conference.
 
This doctor is a specialist in "treatment-resistant depression." He suspects that many of the cases he sees may be iatrogenic. He wishes to conduct this research through interviews. The interviews are to be recorded.
 
He is in San Francisco but will Skype anywhere.
 
He would like to speak to people who have been:

1.  Diagnosed, at some point, with major depressive disorder
2.  Prescribed anti-depressant medications
3.  Responded to anti-depressant medications (i.e. went into remission with the medication/s)
4.  Took the medication for a long period of time (5+ years)
5.  Were, for one reason or another, weaned off the medication OR
6.  They discontinued the medication on their own
7.  Developed significant worsening of symptoms (anxiety, insomnia, worsening of depression, etc.)
8.  The resultant mood/anxiety symptoms are/were worse than anything previously experienced (prior to medications)
9.  Re-institution of the original medication either a) does not work or B ) is intolerable
10.  Trial of other medications proves to be intolerable or does not work
11.  Develop "treatment-resistant" depression
12.  May have had ECT or TMS
 
This young psychiatrist, whom I have met, is sincere and competent. His practice includes psychotherapy. Clearly, he seeks to learn from patients. He was trained at Harvard Medical School and the University of California, San Francisco.
 
If you meet the criteria above and wish to take part in the study, please send me your valid e-mail address with your explicit permission for the psychiatrist to contact you for the study, in a personal message on this site or through the site e-mail. Please do not post your e-mail address in this topic.

 

DEADLINE FOR YOUR PERMISSION AND CONTACT INFO IS JANUARY 15, 2015

Edited by Altostrata
added deadline

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Hi Alto,

I think this study is wonderful, and would be more than willing to participate.

 

However I am not sure I meet all the criteria. #8: I cannot say that my WD symptoms are worse than the original depression. And #9: reinstitution of the Paxil did decrease my symptoms.

 

I hope that this study is one of many more to come, and thank you again Alto for all your devotion.

 

Athena

2000-2001: Effexor              2005-2012: Celexa, Zoloft, Effexor, desipramin, Wellbutrin, mirtazepin, Lamictal, Remeron, Abilify, nortriptylin, Cipralex, Cymbalta, and others I don't remember. Really bad side effects to all.
Sept-Nov 2012: Paxil 20mg, Wellbutrin 100mg, Imovane 5mg      Nov 2012: Paxil 20mg --> 10mg
Dec 2012: Paxil 10mg-->0; 1 week later: HUGE WD symptoms. Started to get informed on the internet and back to 10mg Paxil.
Dec 2012-Jan 2013: Paxil 10mg, Wellbutrin 100mg, Imovane 2.5mg        End Jan 2013: P 9mg, W 100mg, I 2.0mg
Feb 2013: P 8mg, W 100mg, I 1.5mg      April 2013: P 7mg, W 100mg, I 1.25mg       May 2013: P 7mg, W 90mg, I 1mg    

June 2013: P 7mg, W 80mg, I 0mg       July 1/2013: P 7, W 70     July 22/2013: P 7, W 60             Aug 2013: P 7, W 50       Sept 2013: P 6.1, W 50     Oct 2013: P up to 6.3, W 50     Nov 2013: P 6.2 to 5.9, W 50      Dec 2013: P 5.9, W 40      Jan 2014: P 5.3, W40        Feb 2014: P 5.3, W 30      March-April 2014: P 5.3, W 26    May 2014: P 5.3, W 20        June 2014: P 5.3 W 15     July 2014:  P 5.3, W 14       Aug 2014: P 5.3, W up to 15     Sept 2014: P 5.3, W 14    Oct 2014: P 4.8, W 14      Nov 2014: P 4.3, W 14     Dec 2014-Jan 2015: P 3.9, W 14     Feb 2015: P 3.9, W 12    March 2015: P 3.6, W 12   April-May 2015: P 3.3, W 12    June 2015: P 3.3, W 10    July 2015: P 3.3, W 8   Aug-Sept 2015: P 3.3, W 6   Oct 2015: P 3.0, W 6   Nov 2015: P 2.7, W 6   Dec 2015: P 2.4, W 6   Jan-Feb 2016: P 2.4, W 5  March 2016: P 2.2, W 5   April 2016: P 2.2, W 4   May-June 2016: P 2.2, W 3  July 2016: P 2.2, W 2  Aug 2016: P 2.2, W 1  Sept 2016: P 2.2, W 0!!  Oct 2016: P 2.0   Nov 2016-Jan 2017: P 1.8  Feb-Mar 2017: P 1.9  April-May 2017: P 1.8   June 2017: P 1.6 July-Dec 2017: P 1.5  Jan-April 2018: P 1.6

Others: Cytomel 25mcg (thyroid), vit. C, vit D, Omega-3 fish oil, Magnesium bisglycinate , Melatonin 1mg, 81mg Aspirin, Milk peptides, L-theanine, Valericalm tincture mix, scullcap tincture, Suan Zao Ren (jujube seeds)

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Hello, I do not meet the criteria, because I have not and will not be reinstating. Hope he finds who he needs though!

5/14 Celexa 40mg Amitriptyline 50mg Effexor 300mg

5/11/14 C 20mg A 25mg E 300mg

5/20/14 C 10mg A 12.5mg E 300mg

6/4/14 C 0 A 12.5mg E 300mg

6/11/14 A 0, E 300mg

7/20/14 E 225mg

7/29/14 E 150mg

9/14/14 E 75mg

9/24/14 E 37.5mg

10/01/14 E 0

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Forgive me clogging the thread because I do not meet the criteria (neither 3 nor 4), but this news brings tears of gratitude for the hope that this represents - that some day this iatrogenesis will be recognized.

04/2013 diagnoses: severe insomnia, major depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, agoraphobia. PTSD (my diagnosis)

Original scripts: 30 mg mirtazapine (Remeron) (1x day), 75 mg Bupropion HCL (Wellbutrin) (2x day), and 0.5 lorazepam (1x day or as needed)

05/05/14: Onset of acute Wellbutrin withdrawal symptoms after haphazard "taper" of 6-8 wks.

05/10/14: Joined this site.

05/11/14: Reinstated approx. 25 mg Wellbutrin (1x day)

05/14/14: Switched to 12.5 mg Wellbutrin (2x day)

06/28/14: Changed lorazepam dosing to .25 mg 2x a day - seems to be reducing anxiety flare-ups

07/28/14: Dosing Wellbutrin in a (home made) solution form 12.5 mg (2x day) 08/15/14: Remeron 28 25.2 22.7 20.5 18.5 16.7 15.1 13.6 mg (home made) solution

05/16/15: Have been dosing lorazepam at .5 mg in the morning, .25 mg in the afternoon, and .25 mg at bedtime. Anxiety has increased somewhat, possibly due to tolerance.

 

 

 

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Thanks, everyone. This is a very smart doctor. He's carefully chosen his criteria to test his hypothesis, which has to do with treating "treatment-resistant depression." He will be addressing psychiatrists who are concerned with that particular condition.

 

Scientific papers need to be somewhat narrowly designed to prove or disprove a point. This does not mean he does not believe in other iatrogenic effects of psychiatric drugs.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Hi Alto,

 

Although I'm not meeting the inclusion criteria literely in that I never had depression before or after Taking AD, I feel the criteria can be easily modified for his purpose to include ppl who were put on AD for other reasons like headache in my case. Giving the trust I have in you, I would like to participate to help the future awareness of the problem and prevention of more harms.

 

 

Before I sign the consent, I wonder what types of personal information this study is collecting to protect subjects identity? And how much time and committement is required from the participants? I feel it would be nice if such information along with others as appropriate can be provided. As for Skype, is that it was chosen to avoid phone number or to see intervieweer?

Drug free Sep. 23 2017

2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks.

2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg

2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain

2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain;

2013 Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg by July. first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain

2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg,

2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on

2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks.

2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR

2016 Feb., started dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday 2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg,8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg, 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg

2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, 2/13--0.13mg, 2/20--0.06mg, 3/18--0.13mg, 6/1--0.12mg, 7/6--0.1mg, 7/14--0.08mg, 8/17--0.04mg, 8/20--0.03mg, 8/28--0.02mg, 9/6--0.0205mg, 9/8--0.02mg, 9/17--0.015mg, 9/20--0.01mg, 9/21--0.0048mg, 9/22--0.0001mg,

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The researcher has set his criteria. If you do not meet the first 11, please do not volunteer to be a subject. (Having had ECT or TMS is not necessary.)
 

I agree, a study of the effect of antidepressants on people who did not have "depression" to begin with would be very, very valuable. But that is not this study.

 

This is a conscientious doctor. He will explain the privacy parameters to you. (Probably, he'll send you something to sign.) 

 

He is willing to Skype with people who would find it inconvenient to visit him in San Francisco. He intends to record or videotape interviews.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Thanks alto! Understand.

Hope future studies would expand the scope.

 

If #1 also considers anxiety, I may be still eligible.

Drug free Sep. 23 2017

2009 Mar.: lexapro 10mg for headache for 2 weeks.

2009-2012: on and off 1/4 to 1/3 of 10mg

2012 June--2013 Jan,: 1/4-1/3 of 10mg generic, bad jaw pain

2013 Jan-Mar: 10 mg generic. severe jaw and head pain;

2013 Mar--Aug. started tapering (liquid ever since) from 10 to 5 (one step) then gradually down to 2.25 mg by July. first ever panic attack, severe head/jaw pain

2013 Aug.: back to 2.75 mg; Nov: back to Brand Lex. 2.75mg -- 3mg,

2014 June: stopped PPI, head pressure/numbness. up-dosed 4.5mg, severe reaction mental symptoms added on

2014 Aug--2015 Aug: Micro taper down to 3.2mg, .025mg (<1%) cut holding 2-3 weeks.

2015 Aug 15th, Accidental one dose of 4.2mg. worsening brain non-functional, swollen head, body, coma like, DR

2016 Feb., started dosing 10am through 11 pm everyday 2/13--3.2mg, 3/15-- 2.9mg, 4/19-- 2.6mg, 6/26--2.2mg, 7/22 --1.9mg, 8/16--1.8mg,8/31--1.7m g, 9/13--1.6mg, 9/27--1.5mg, 10/8--1.4mg, 10/14--1.3mg, 11/1--1.2mg, 11/29--1.1mg, 12/12--1mg, 12/22--0.9mg

2017: 1/7--0.8mg, 1/15--0.7mg, 1/17--0.6mg, 1/20--0.52, 1/21--0.4mg, 1/22--0.26, 1/23--0.2, 2/13--0.13mg, 2/20--0.06mg, 3/18--0.13mg, 6/1--0.12mg, 7/6--0.1mg, 7/14--0.08mg, 8/17--0.04mg, 8/20--0.03mg, 8/28--0.02mg, 9/6--0.0205mg, 9/8--0.02mg, 9/17--0.015mg, 9/20--0.01mg, 9/21--0.0048mg, 9/22--0.0001mg,

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This is very exciting.  I'm sure studies take a long time to conduct and then write papers on, but this gives us hope that some day the medical industry may have a different view on these types of meds. and not push them so vehemently.  I wish I could help with his study, but I

only meet 1 - 8.  Please keep us up to date on his progress Alto!!

Sept-1990 started my first AD Zoloft never got higher dose than 50mg

Dec-1990 Quit Zoloft  =Nov-1995 Back on Zoloft for Post-partum depression/anxiety

early-1998 Quit Prozac to get pregnant   =Feb-1999 Back on Prozac 20mg

10-1999 Prozac 30mg  =12-1999 Prozac 20mg

7-2001 switch to Wellbutrin SR 100mg

8-2001 increase Wellbutrin SR 150mg

10-2001 adding back Prozac 20mg

5-2003 tapered off Prozac  =7-2003 back on Prozac 20mg

8-2003 Add in Imipramine 25mg then to 50mg    (given Xanax for bad panic episodes

9-2003 Imipramine 75 mg then to 100mg

1-2004 switch to Lexapro 10mg

8-2004 Lexapro 20mg, Imipramine 75mg

4-2006 Adding Wellbutrin 150mg then to 200mg

7-2006 switch Lexapro to Celexa

12-2007Celexa 40mg Wellbutirin 150mg

9-2009 switch back to Lexapro 20mg, WellbutrinXL 150mg

2-2010 stop Lexapro start Celexa 40mg

11-2010 switch Celexa to Cymbalta 60mg

3-2011 Cymbalta 60mg switch to Effexor 37.5 to 75mg

10-2012 thru 12-2012 taper Effexor 75mg to 37.5 and off.

5-2013 start generic Prozac 10mg to 20mg, Trazadone 25mg  BEGIN THE TAPER(6-2013 Prozac 20mg to 10mg, Trazadone 25mg. 7-2013 liquid Prozac 7mg, Trazadone 25mg 8-2013 liquid Prozac 8mg, Trazadone 25mg9-2013 liquid Prozac 5mg, Trazadone 25mg10-31-2013 liquid Prozac 3.25mg, Trazadone 25mg=11-11-2013 liquid Prozac 3.0mg, Trazadone 25mg=12-4-2013 liquid Prozac 2.8mg, Trazadone 25mg=12-13-2013 liquid Prozac 2.5mg, Trazadone 25mg=1-5-2014 liquid Prozac 2.0mg, Trazadone 25mg=(CURRENT/06-01-2014 LAST dose liquid Prozac, Trazadone 25mg)((Aug. 13, 2014 reinstate .20mg of liquid Prozac for crippling anxiety, dread (still on same Trazadone...)supplements are probiotic, Vit. D3 and Fish Oil daily)Aug 19th reinstate 6.25mg Zoloft, Sept. 4th 25mg Zoloft.CURRENT(50mg Zoloft, 25mg Trazadone)

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

I originally volunteered for this study but said that:

 

 

9.  Re-institution of the original medication either a) does not work or B ) is intolerable
10.  Trial of other medications proves to be intolerable or does not work
11.  Develop "treatment-resistant" depression

 

did not appear to fit.

 

In my case (and I wonder how many others of us have found this) re-instituting medication (like taking more of 'the hair of the dog that bit ya' to stave off a hangover) after one learns the truth about antidepressants (that they do not 'cure depression' and must be taken for the rest of your life) IS what is intolerable. Once the wool falls off one eyes one cannot ever put it back. When you can see other health problems looming (diabetes for example) if you stay on or go back on ANY of them, it is risky business indeed. You tend to think (as I do) "Well, I guess I'll just have to tough it out (depression) without them" and that makes #10 a non-starter. My resulting feelings of 'depression' after I got off the meds were far worse than ANY I had ever known before meds or when whatever med I was taking was not successful enough in blotting out my feelings.

 

I would consider that since I was diagnosed with MDD 4 different times in my life that I had (by the 3rd or 4th time) developed 'treatment resistant depression'. As in 'without treatment, depression happens again'. My fourth episode had elements of psychosis mixed in, if I am to be honest. Pretty scary.

 

My guess is a great many of us will not be eligible for this study and too bad. It would be great if a researcher would study US, those of us that know we will be going through the rest of our lives shunning chemical help for 'depression' because we now know the truth. Who's gonna help us? Certainly not Big Pharma. We are their casualties.

 

Edited to add: I have something to say about the term "treatment resistant depression". Resistant to what, chemical manipulation by the current crop of drugs, the hauling out of older ones such as the tricyclics or off label use of drugs such as ketamine  (AN ANESTHETIC FOR PETE'S SAKE!)? Or how about: those things (drugs) don't work but this does: adequate rest, a nutritious diet, avoidance of OTC drugs (think ppi's here), regular exercise, getting off the computer and getting outside, meditation and doing something about stress. Those things all work but they take a lot of initiative by the person involved and they aren't very sexy or profitable. Notice I did not say 'supplements', those can often be damaging (I am thinking of people who developed problems using 5HTP or sam-E).

 

Too much emphasis on "pill popping", not enough on good old fashioned living properly. I count myself among the guilty.

What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

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Sorry for this off topic response but CW, I wanted to mention another thing for people to try which is light therapy.   I started trying it in the hopes of alleviating my sleep problems which obviously are not going to go away in one day.   But amazingly after starting it, my depression from lack of sleep has already greatly improved.

 

Why this isn't also offered as standard therapy vs. meds is beyond me.   But sadly, we all know the answer to that.

 

I told Alto via email that I was willing to have this psychiatrist contact me.   But I am probably not eligible.

 

Regarding reinstating medication, I tried Trazadone and Elavil for my sleep problems which didn't help at all.  After having massive hangovers the next day, I couldn't imagine being back on ADS full time.

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Thanks for proving my point, CS. I am sure there will be other nods of agreement out there.

 

Light therapy has been around a long time but did we seek it out or was it ever mentioned to us to try instead of meds? Nope, not in my case. That you used it in a novel way (to help with sleep) is a testament to how creative some of us can be when we look for 'off label' uses for common non-drug therapies. (And how intuitive: come up with an idea, run the experiment to prove the theory and assess the results.)

 

So yes, add light therapy to the list. And anything else I missed. They all work but are not profitable in our mainstream society.

What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

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Thanks for proving my point, CS. I am sure there will be other nods of agreement out there.

 

Light therapy has been around a long time but did we seek it out or was it ever mentioned to us to try instead of meds? Nope, not in my case. That you used it in a novel way (to help with sleep) is a testament to how creative some of us can be when we look for 'off label' uses for common non-drug therapies. (And how intuitive: come up with an idea, run the experiment to prove the theory and assess the results.)

 

So yes, add light therapy to the list. And anything else I missed. They all work but are not profitable in our mainstream society.

It definitely was never offered as an option to me.   I think I remember reading about it but all the studies downplayed its effectivness compared to meds which I am sure was a joke.

 

Regarding using light therapy for sleep, some sleep doctors, will recommend this but do a poor job of really explaining how light therapy works.  I got the idea from finally reading about irregular sleep/wake disorder which sounds exactly like my situation.  They recommended using it 4 times a day.  Yesterday, I went outside once since it was bright and sunny and used it two other times.

 

CS

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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I would love to be included in this study but I, also, see that the reinstatement criteria would not fit me.  I was fighting daily bouts of nausea that nobody could figure out the cause of,  after eleven years on Remeron.    The last ditch effort by the psychiatrist was to put me on an antipsychotic, Geodon, that made the coexisting "akathisia"  ten times worse.  I will say, though, that I was symptom free for about ten days after starting the AP.  Then things rapidly deteriorated.   I did NOT use any other AD after that.  I think I intuitively knew that drugs were a poor choice and probably were from the beginning.  Stress management, and talk therapy  would have been the better choice, if only someone had suggested that!

 

So, three years off antidepressants and I struggle with daily swings of jitteriness, low mood, dizzyness, headaches, and poor memory.   Still waking with dread and fear although I can breathe my way through the hour I experience this around 5 or 6 in the morning.  

 

Anyway, would be very open to participating if the Dr. says I would qualify.

I started withdrawing off remeron in August of 2009, with the help of a holistic physician.The reason for the withdrawal was a year or two of off and on nausea, deterioration in my thinking, and more depression. It took me a full year to work from 135 mg down to 45mg. At that point, more drops were causing more depression. Unfortuately, the nervousness that I was also feeling for the last year continued with the 45 mg. Thirty one days ago, I stopped the remeron. I am still feeling the nervousness every day and the last week, I am feeling what I think is depression but not sure. In bed in the morning, I'm already dreading another day feeling this way. I am intensely unsure of myself and find it very hard to do anything. I was a practicing veterinarian for 29 years until I found I could not practice anymore. First of all I couldn't think, or remember, and I had absolutely no confidence in anything I did. These were things I did with relative ease for twenty+ years. So, this feeling of no confidence has been during the time I was on the AD(the last 2 years) and today. I take no other medication other than my blood pressure meds. I tried supplements with my holistic dr. but they seemed to make the intense nervousness even more intense. Anyway, I truly feel stuck.

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Barbarannamated

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Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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I haven't been on the forum in a while, but wanted to say: it was nice to be invited for the study but, I don't meet the criteria either.  CW, I'm totally with you in your feelings and in matching only numbers 1-8.

"If you ended up in the bathroom with incredible vomiting and diarrhea a little over an hour after eating the warmed over chicken salad from some buffet table, could anyone persuade you to return and eat the warmed over tuna salad because they thought that it would make you feel better?" This stuck in my head when I was really in trouble around month 9, post last pill. Whether I should have gone back to the psychiatrist's office or whether I should not have gone back - it was a mute point - I could not go back without going against every instinct within me.  

I think that it's great that there's a psychiatrist out there who wants to listen to people and collect people's stories but there are a lot of people who just can't roll the dice any more. I realize that studies need parameters; everything just always seems to tilt towards the drugs.

Meanwhile - thank you, Altostrata, for this forum for the rest of us.

In 2004 was initially put on Effexor, but by 2007 I had a whole cocktail going - 112.5 mg Effexor, 200 mg Buproprion SR, 250 mg Depakote, and 27mg Concerta ER. I switched psychiatrists to get off of everything.  Systematically, my new psychiatrist took me down – last to go was the Effexor, which he switched to Prozac to soften the reaction.  My last pill was July 2011. Although with every change, up or down, I felt a bit rotten and flu-like, I would return to normal within a few weeks. Looking back, perhaps I felt a bit crabby, but I had no hint that I was in trouble until November 2011 when I experienced something odd - I got no buzz from an occasional glass of wine. By Jan 20112 I was hit, full force – insomnia, no dreams, pacing, twitchy, chemical despair – later:  tingling sensations, audio distortion ... Many symptoms have improved, some have not, some have morphed. I am still struggling, 3 years out. 

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I fit all the criteria from way back when I was first given antidepressants, except #5. I wasn't on them for very long,

the damage was done in weeks.  10 years later I was almost healed and started effexor. The biggest mistake ever. 

 

This time around I don't fit the criteria because I reinstated  a tiny dose and it helped but only because I researched it.

and came here . 

If I had trusted my doctor and tried to go back to the full dose I would definitely be in a much worse situation now because

it would have made me really ill and had to quit, suffering protracted withdrawal. I am so grateful to Alto and BT's topx sites 

for showing me the way to go. 

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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Hi Alto,

 

Thanks for sending me an email about this research.  Like several others who have posted here, I don't meet the minimum requirements.  However it's good to see someone taking a scientific look at the possibilities of anti-depressant harm.

 

I ask that you post a link to the research paper when (if) it gets published or at least a notice of its publication.  Kind thanks for all of your efforts.

 

Michael

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Thank you, everyone.

 

Psychiatry thinks diagnoses have meaning, and this researcher is using the language and definitions of psychiatry to illustrate a discovery about Major Depressive Disorder and Treatment-Resistant Depression as his colleagues understand them.

 

The subsequent trial (and failure) of additional drugs is necessary to prove that the condition is not "relapse." We all know the Catch-22 there!

 

This is what you have to do to get research accepted and respected.

 

I know life does not fit neatly into this schema.

 

I will certainly keep you updated on this.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Altostrata, I received an email and have responded that I would be interested in participating.

 

I started off with depression and an AD threw me into manic depression. Over the years,  I've had several reinstatements of various medications, including antidepressants. Now I have treatment resistant depression and severe depersonalization.

 

I hope to help.

 

Thank you.

 

Shep

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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I would like to participate in this study but there's several criteria that I don't meet-- eg I've been on and off AD meds a number of times over 17 years but i was never on them for 5 years. And only once did I get worse after withdrawing-- that was when my doctor had me alternate doses of Cymbalta and taper in large reductions.  

 

Right now I'm tapering again-- off Effexor and Klonopin.  I've gone back on ADs several times out of desperation when I had a major downturn and they seemed to help but it may have been more of a placebo effect because i could see how my mood changes drastically depending on how confident I feel about my treatment and whether I'll improve. My doctors had always convinced me that the meds would make me better, so that gave me confidence and a positive mood. Now i have more and more doubts about the meds.  

 

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Hi Tonygio, would you like to start a thread for yourself in the introductions forum? It would

be good to get to know you and how you are tapering. We view the introduction threads as case histories 

that can be seen by professionals who visit the site. It is how they will see the effects that the drugs and

withdrawal have on people. 

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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Just replied to you Alto, check your email.

 

Won't be able to qualify, just like most here. So sorry to advise that. If for whatever reason he would like to contact me just to discuss my story for information, just let me know.

 

Thanks

Zoloft: 2002 - sometime 2003 CT
Celexa: 2004 - 2007 20 mg
Effexor XR: 2007 - 2009 300 mg!!!
Effexor XR: 2010 - 2011 tapered down to 18.75 mg, hard time with interdose withdrawal
Prozac: 2011 5 mg till October, then got more depressed tried to updose to 10mg for three days and I became suicidal and very ill
tapered to 2 mg then stopped Feb 20, 2012. Restarting Celexa 10mg March 2017 due to rough patch in my life (anxiety and depression).

Link to my intro page here

Also : was addicted to Klonopin 2004 - 2008, tapered in 2008. Still have on hand for panic, but rarely used.

Suspected mold infection living in moldy room 2012.

Supplements I take: Multi, probiotic, wild Alaskan salmon oil, C, D3, methylB12, niacinamide, whey protein isolate

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Administrator

Thanks, tony and Jason.

 

To participate in the study, you MUST meet criteria 1-11 (12 is optional):

 

1.  Diagnosed, at some point, with major depressive disorder
2.  Prescribed anti-depressant medications
3.  Responded to anti-depressant medications (i.e. went into remission with the medication/s)
4.  Took the medication for a long period of time (5+ years)
5.  Were, for one reason or another, weaned off the medication OR
6.  They discontinued the medication on their own
7.  Developed significant worsening of symptoms (anxiety, insomnia, worsening of depression, etc.)
8.  The resultant mood/anxiety symptoms are/were worse than anything previously experienced (prior to medications)
9.  Re-institution of the original medication either a) does not work or B ) is intolerable
10.  Trial of other medications proves to be intolerable or does not work
11.  Develop "treatment-resistant" depression
12.  May have had ECT or TMS

 

 

If you have sent me an e-mail or message since December 1 and have not heard from me, please resend your e-mail. I have had some problems with my e-mail lately. (I've responded to all the mail and pms I got about this.)

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Hmmm well I meet criteria 1 through 11 , I would be happy to assist the doctor.  

 

Alto, I sent you a private email message with my email address addressing a bit more.  

Past: Started on 30 mg of celexa in 2003 with lorazepam for sleep, switched to clonazepam in 2007

Last few years were spent cartwheeling around with various AD cocktails and multiple ER visits

Current:  5 mg celexa, .5 mg clonazepam, 1 mg melatonin for sleep 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Alto, I do meet all the criteria except for 12. Tho in 2013 I begged the university to use ECT on me. Im glad it didnt work out. I have 25 years experience with ADs & APs. I do have a couple dumb questions b/c im having a "scattered" week. Do #s 9 & 10 mean that the study doc will reinstate meds or just wants to review ur experience? Also, is there compensation or is it voluntary? Doesnt matter b/c I want to help, but just curious. Finally, if I decide yes...can doc do email or phone convo b/c I dont have computer or skype? Duh - I forgot. How do I email u with my info? I am interested and answers will help me decide. Im sorry I didnt notice this earlier. Thank u for the opportunity and all of ur help.

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  • #12 is optional.
  • The doctor will not prescribe drugs, he wants case histories of drug-induced depression.
  • There is no compensation, it is voluntary.
  • You will be asked to sign a formal consent form.
  • He might do phone or e-mail interviews, Skype is not required.
  • Please send me a personal message if you wish to participate.

 

DEADLINE FOR YOUR PERMISSION AND CONTACT INFO IS JANUARY 15, 2015

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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That's totally my scenario! I will send you my contacts. 

in 2002- 0,5 tablet cipramil for half a year, ended it uneventfully. in 2006 - citalopram for half a year, ended in horrific state, ditched the drugs CT. 2007-2008 not feeling well but drug free. in 2008 prozac 20mg + quetiapine 25mg. 2009 tried to stop, ended up in hole after couple of months, started zoloft. 2009-2011 zoloft 50mg. went to 25mg in 2011 summer, it resulted in half a year horrible suffering. reinstated, changed drugs, nothing happened. by 2012 beginning suddenly felt great and CT meds. after 4 months came suddenly most horrible human suffering that's possible. was started on prozac and questiapine. started tapering slowly, GFCF diet and Hardy Nutritionals vitamins in 2013 summer. 

current medications: 1) fluoxetine and quetiapine since Aug 2012; 2) Daily Essential Nutrients by Hardy Nutritionals 7 capsules / since May 2013 + omega3; 3) Gluten-free-casein-free diet since june 2013

 

Started withdrawing slowly since april 2013. Mostly around 10% cuts. 

April'13 - March'14: fluoxetine 40mg -> 19,5mg; quetiapine 50mg -> 40mg
April'14-March'15: fluoxetine 19,5mg -> 14,4mg; quetiapine 40mg -> 22mg

April'15-March'16: fluoxetine 14,4mg -> 7,4mg; quetiapine 22mg -> 15mg

April'16-March'17: fluoxetine 7,4mg -> 5,0mg; quetiapine 15mg -> 7,25mg

April'17-March'18: fluoxetine 5,0mg -> 4,0mg; quetiapine 7,25mg -> 0 (as of 1st Feb 2018)!!!!

April´18-March´19: fluoxetine 4,0mg - > 2,3mg. Jumped off fluoxetine 1,4mg due to pregnancy in July 2019. Oct 2019 severe withdrawal syndrome started.

Took mistakenly a complex for hormonal support that included pregnenolone dec2019-april2020. Stopped it april 2020 and immediately severe akathisia started. Have had life threatening akathisia since, 100% disabled, suicidal, very hard to hold on. 

 

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Hi Alto, I do meet all the criteria except for 12. Tho in 2013 I begged the university to use ECT on me. Im glad it didnt work out. I have 25 years experience with ADs & APs. I do have a couple dumb questions b/c im having a "scattered" week. Do #s 9 & 10 mean that the study doc will reinstate meds or just wants to review ur experience? Also, is there compensation or is it voluntary? Doesnt matter b/c I want to help, but just curious. Finally, if I decide yes...can doc do email or phone convo b/c I dont have computer or skype? Duh - I forgot. How do I email u with my info? I am interested and answers will help me decide. Im sorry I didnt notice this earlier. Thank u for the opportunity and all of ur help.

 

PK, please sent Alto a PM with your contact info. She does not have any info on what the study will entail. The deadline is TOMORROW, Jan. 15, 2015.

What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

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CW, hi + thank u. I did finally catch Alto & im waiting for the dr to contact me. No word yet...perhaps he's got a bushel of subjects. Have a good day :-)

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It may take the doctor months to interview everyone.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 3 months later...

I would be extremely interested in the results of his research and in whatever he would be willing/able to share of his presentation once it is ready or done--or at whatever point the conference would not be unhappy that he shared it elsewhere. Alto, do you know if he will keep you/us updated?

 

 

 

 

 

..oh my signature is more outdated than I thought. Will fix before posting anything else.

Erik
poet. skeptic. laughs in the face of death ha!


Rx Hx: (Dates and doses 1999-2012 are approximate)
Dec 1997 started on Paxil.
thru 1999ish: every SSRI in existence, one at a time, except for Prozac...
2000: Prozac 40mg; added Zyprexa 5-10mg 

2004: began Buprenorphine, 40mg
2005: Prozac 60mg; Zyprexa 5-7.5mg; added Klonopin avg 1.5mg/day PRN
2006: Prozac 80mg; Zyprexa 5mg; Klonopin avg ~1mg PRN then down to 0.5mg by 2012
May, 2012: signs of tardive dyskinesia. Begin Zyprexa "taper": 2.5mg
late July, 2012: Zyprexa 1.25mg
early Aug, 2012: discontinued Zyprexa

     a little later Aug, 2012: GI disturbances, nausea, appetite loss, disturbed sleep, body temperature dysregulation, fatigue, sweating, headaches, beginning of rapid weight loss
Dec 2012: Prozac causing stomach pain; reduced to 60mg
Jan 2013-present: muscle pain and spasms in face, jaw, neck, shoulders, chest

5 Dec 2013: GP suggests increase in Klonopin for muscle spasms

Currently (Dec 2013): 60mg Prozac, 0.875 mg Klonopin, 40mg Buprenorphine

     nausea, headaches, muscle spasms, tardive dyskinesia continue;

     appetite back, increase in energy and in apparent metabolic rate

"mental" reactions since stopping Zyprexa: intermittent increase in obsessional thinking, extra emotional zing

     treatment: sitting meditation 50 min once or twice a day PRN

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Altostrata

Yes, I will. The study has not started yet.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • 2 years later...

Any news on this study yet? 

Trazodone 100mg stopped November 2016

Lamictal 200mg stopped November 2016

Celexa 40mg stopped 12-01-16

Abilify 10mg stopped 12-01-16

Wellbutrin XL stopped 6-14-18

I have been on some type of meds for @ least 15 years.

GOD BLESS! 🙏

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On 2014-12-01 at 3:21 PM, Altostrata said:

A psychiatrist I know and respect wants to do a study on iatrogenic depression -- depression made worse or caused by antidepressants.
...
He would like to speak to people who have been:

1.  Diagnosed, at some point, with major depressive disorder
2.  Prescribed anti-depressant medications
3.  Responded to anti-depressant medications (i.e. went into remission with the medication/s)
4.  Took the medication for a long period of time (5+ years)
5.  Were, for one reason or another, weaned off the medication OR
6.  They discontinued the medication on their own
7.  Developed significant worsening of symptoms (anxiety, insomnia, worsening of depression, etc.)
8.  The resultant mood/anxiety symptoms are/were worse than anything previously experienced (prior to medications)
9.  Re-institution of the original medication either a) does not work or B ) is intolerable
10.  Trial of other medications proves to be intolerable or does not work
11.  Develop "treatment-resistant" depression
12.  May have had ECT or TMS

without question i have iatrogenic depression .could tick yes to 1-12

Edited by scallywag
trimmed quote to relevant portion

Alcohol free since February 2015 

1MG diazepam

4.5MG PROZAC.

 

 

 

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