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Zant808: 17+ years of psychiatric drugging


Zant808

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Hey Zant. Read through your story -- really powerful stuff. Congrats on your progress. I just wanted to say that when I deal with insomnia I try to practice "acceptance." I tell myself that it's okay, the sun will still rise, I will still function, and at some point my body will *eventually* put me to sleep; this concept of acceptance has helped me vs. running towards sleeping pills or something to fix it. Additionally, when I begin to panic over insomnia, I remind myself that these are just scary thoughts and feelings and they can't actually hurt you. Hope this helps as you continue your journey. :)

Currently: 4G of Fish Oil (4 Capsules) w/ Vitamin E; Sam-E @ 400MG

 

May 1, 2016: CT from .5MG of Risperdal & 1MG of Clonapin 

Feb 1, 2016: CT from 75MG of Nardil (MAOI) - used for anxiety/panic/depression for 2+ years.

 

Prior to 2014: Tried several meds with varying success and generally for less than a year: Lexapro (some success, stopped working); Effexor (worked for a bit); Paxil (worked but lost my sex drive); Zoloft (again, sexual side effects); Cymbalta (didn't do much)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hey Zant. Read through your story -- really powerful stuff. Congrats on your progress. I just wanted to say that when I deal with insomnia I try to practice "acceptance." I tell myself that it's okay, the sun will still rise, I will still function, and at some point my body will *eventually* put me to sleep; this concept of acceptance has helped me vs. running towards sleeping pills or something to fix it. Additionally, when I begin to panic over insomnia, I remind myself that these are just scary thoughts and feelings and they can't actually hurt you. Hope this helps as you continue your journey. :)

 

I find acceptance to be something that I struggle with.  I have not made any changes to my Klonopin dosage yet last night I only got 2 hours of sleep compared to the miraculous 8 hours of sleep about 2 weeks ago when I finally stopped the Depakote Sprinkles completely.  I will try to remember your words throughout the night.  Perhaps they will bring me peace in this time of struggle.

I've been on dozens of psychiatric medications starting with being forced to take Prozac back as a minor in the mid 1990s.  All doctors would cold turkey me from medications.  I did not learn about withdrawal until the mid 2000's by reading Dr. Breggin's books and finding sites similar to this one.  I had one successful full cleansing from medication in 2007 and began to recover from some of the iatrogenic damages.  I started to drink alcohol in 2008 to try and recover from PSSD and then about 6 months later, I lost my ability to sleep and was put into an inpatient psychiatric facility and redrugged.  The only med combination that has allowed me to sleep was 1250 mg of Depakote ER and 3 mg Klonopin.  However, my quality of life is terrible on these meds.  I want to try to get off everything now once again.  I have failed a couple of times trying to come off these meds recently but will try again once I can find a psychiatrist who understands withdrawal and can support me.

 

UPDATE:

 

I have not consumed any alcohol in over 10 years.  May 2019 - I started to reduce Anafranil very slowly so I can see a PSSD specialist.  I also plan on trying stem cell therapy to repair my iatrogenic brain damage.

 

Current meds:  1125 mg Depakote Sprinkles, 3 mg Klonopin

 

Current side effects:  PSSD, insomnia, odd sleep schedule, anhedonia, lack of motivation, cognitive issues, memory loss, hair loss, weight gain, dry mouth

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I feel like I'm hitting my breaking point again.  I only got 2 hours of sleep last night and I had nothing but horrible nightmares.  My mood is completely shot.  I have done no reductions since May 31, 2016 and that was when I dropped off the tiny bit of Depakote Sprinkles (12.5 mg which is so small it does not show up on bloodwork).  I feel like I'm only about a day or two away from being hauled off to the psych ward again.  What can I possibly do for my sleep when even 3 mg of Klonopin isn't helping?

I've been on dozens of psychiatric medications starting with being forced to take Prozac back as a minor in the mid 1990s.  All doctors would cold turkey me from medications.  I did not learn about withdrawal until the mid 2000's by reading Dr. Breggin's books and finding sites similar to this one.  I had one successful full cleansing from medication in 2007 and began to recover from some of the iatrogenic damages.  I started to drink alcohol in 2008 to try and recover from PSSD and then about 6 months later, I lost my ability to sleep and was put into an inpatient psychiatric facility and redrugged.  The only med combination that has allowed me to sleep was 1250 mg of Depakote ER and 3 mg Klonopin.  However, my quality of life is terrible on these meds.  I want to try to get off everything now once again.  I have failed a couple of times trying to come off these meds recently but will try again once I can find a psychiatrist who understands withdrawal and can support me.

 

UPDATE:

 

I have not consumed any alcohol in over 10 years.  May 2019 - I started to reduce Anafranil very slowly so I can see a PSSD specialist.  I also plan on trying stem cell therapy to repair my iatrogenic brain damage.

 

Current meds:  1125 mg Depakote Sprinkles, 3 mg Klonopin

 

Current side effects:  PSSD, insomnia, odd sleep schedule, anhedonia, lack of motivation, cognitive issues, memory loss, hair loss, weight gain, dry mouth

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I have hit 0 hours of sleep again.  Apparently, there is nothing I can do to win.  Being on medications causes me to have random blackouts.  Being off medications causes me to not be able to sleep at all.  If I do not get sleep soon, I will be back in inpatient for the rest of my life.  What can I do when there is no hope?

I've been on dozens of psychiatric medications starting with being forced to take Prozac back as a minor in the mid 1990s.  All doctors would cold turkey me from medications.  I did not learn about withdrawal until the mid 2000's by reading Dr. Breggin's books and finding sites similar to this one.  I had one successful full cleansing from medication in 2007 and began to recover from some of the iatrogenic damages.  I started to drink alcohol in 2008 to try and recover from PSSD and then about 6 months later, I lost my ability to sleep and was put into an inpatient psychiatric facility and redrugged.  The only med combination that has allowed me to sleep was 1250 mg of Depakote ER and 3 mg Klonopin.  However, my quality of life is terrible on these meds.  I want to try to get off everything now once again.  I have failed a couple of times trying to come off these meds recently but will try again once I can find a psychiatrist who understands withdrawal and can support me.

 

UPDATE:

 

I have not consumed any alcohol in over 10 years.  May 2019 - I started to reduce Anafranil very slowly so I can see a PSSD specialist.  I also plan on trying stem cell therapy to repair my iatrogenic brain damage.

 

Current meds:  1125 mg Depakote Sprinkles, 3 mg Klonopin

 

Current side effects:  PSSD, insomnia, odd sleep schedule, anhedonia, lack of motivation, cognitive issues, memory loss, hair loss, weight gain, dry mouth

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Zant, sleeplessness is my #1 worst symptom -- frequency, intensity and dislike.  I'm sorry you having an extended stretch of it.
 
Given that you had insomnia when you reduced last December, your current sleeplessness is more than likely a delayed w/d symptom from your Depakote taper. I've gone through your updates and am summarizing your taper here to provide a quick view:

14 Dec 375 mg
26 Dec 500 mg, comment in post: < 500 mg causes insomnia & hypomania
02 feb 475 mg, 5 hrs sleep
17 feb 425 mg
22 feb 400 mg
29 feb 375 mg, 5 hrs sleep
03 mar comment: holding at 375 mg until 14 march
17 mar 350 mg
22 mar 325
30 mar 300
04 apr 275
10 apr 250
22 apr 225
26 apr 200, 5 hrs/night
03 may 175
14 may 125
17 may 112.5
25 may 62.5

26 may 62.5

intermediate doses: 50, 37.5, 25, 12.5
31 may 0, zero, nil, bupkis! :)

 

That's really fast, Zant, especially the last week -- from 62.5 to 0. When they say "sub-therapeutic", I don't interpret it as "no effect." Sadly, my experience with my drug bears that out. You've been on Depakote since 2008; your central nervous system has adapted to having it present. Your CNS is kicking up a fuss, probably because it's unaccustomed to your current 0 mg/day of Depakote.

 

I've brought your situation and question to other mods who've worked with you previously. They may suggest reinstatement of your last dose and a longer hold. Do you have any of the sprinkles capsules on hand?
 
If you've got the energy to read, please look at least at the first post in About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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I feel like I'm hitting my breaking point again.  I only got 2 hours of sleep last night and I had nothing but horrible nightmares.  My mood is completely shot.  I have done no reductions since May 31, 2016 and that was when I dropped off the tiny bit of Depakote Sprinkles (12.5 mg which is so small it does not show up on bloodwork).  I feel like I'm only about a day or two away from being hauled off to the psych ward again.  What can I possibly do for my sleep when even 3 mg of Klonopin isn't helping?

 

Zant, were you having random blackouts when you were taking 12.5mg Depakote sprinkles? How long were you taking that dosage?

 

Have the random blackouts stopped?

 

Whether the drug shows up on bloodwork is not relevant. What matters is how your nervous system responds to decreases. It seems perhaps going off at 12.5mg was too precipitous.

 

If you were not having random blackouts at 12.5mg, I would reinstate 5mg Depakote, see if that helps, then plan to reduce it by very, very small amounts to go off.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Zant, sleeplessness is my #1 worst symptom -- frequency, intensity and dislike.  I'm sorry you having an extended stretch of it.

 

Given that you had insomnia when you reduced last December, your current sleeplessness is more than likely a delayed w/d symptom from your Depakote taper. I've gone through your updates and am summarizing your taper here to provide a quick view:

14 Dec 375 mg

26 Dec 500 mg, comment in post: < 500 mg causes insomnia & hypomania

02 feb 475 mg, 5 hrs sleep

17 feb 425 mg

22 feb 400 mg

29 feb 375 mg, 5 hrs sleep

03 mar comment: holding at 375 mg until 14 march

17 mar 350 mg

22 mar 325

30 mar 300

04 apr 275

10 apr 250

22 apr 225

26 apr 200, 5 hrs/night

03 may 175

14 may 125

17 may 112.5

25 may 62.5

26 may 62.5

intermediate doses: 50, 37.5, 25, 12.5

31 may 0, zero, nil, bupkis! :)

 

That's really fast, Zant, especially the last week -- from 62.5 to 0. When they say "sub-therapeutic", I don't interpret it as "no effect." Sadly, my experience with my drug bears that out. You've been on Depakote since 2008; your central nervous system has adapted to having it present. Your CNS is kicking up a fuss, probably because it's unaccustomed to your current 0 mg/day of Depakote.

 

I've brought your situation and question to other mods who've worked with you previously. They may suggest reinstatement of your last dose and a longer hold. Do you have any of the sprinkles capsules on hand?

 

If you've got the energy to read, please look at least at the first post in About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms.

 

Thank you for answering me and compiling that list.  You're right.  The last week was too fast of a taper.  I just assumed that since it was no longer detectable in my bloodstream through Depakote Level / valproic acid level tests, I could come off quickly.  Back in 2006 when I got off of Depakote via a Lithium crossover taper, I was told by my pdoc the same thing about my lithium levels.  Since the lithium level showed no lithium in my bloodstream at something like 90 or 100 mg, she said that I could just jump off because the lithium was at a placebo level.  I did that and I managed to come off a combination of 5 meds at that time in under 1 year.  Plus even according to the pro-psychiatry people like Stahl, it even says in his psychopharmacology book that Depakote is much weaker than Klonopin, yet it usually beats Klonopin to the GABA receptors.  So, I wanted to have the Klonopin work and give me additional sleep and that's what I thought was happening because I got 8 hours of sleep for the first time in 11 months when the Depakote finally hit 0 mg but the Klonopin stayed at 3 mg.

 

I'm missing an important part now and that is the help of Catherine Creel who ran a place similar to SA, only it was a Yahoo group.  She sadly passed away this March.  So now I don't have her anymore to help me with supplements and nutrition or with finding another withdrawal knowledgeable pdoc.  I was taking quite a lot of supplements back in 2006 to 2007 to come off of those 5 meds.  But I suppose since I am much older now and have been exposed to way more medications (about 20 - 25 meds in 2006 vs. 40+ in 2016) that this is way different.  I have read the link you provided.  It gives me a lot to think about, especially since I'm being presented with a lot of choices now.  I'll post the choices in the next response to Alto's post, since I didn't use MultiQuote.  But to answer your question, yes, I have plenty of Depakote Sprinkles.  I have somewhere around 400 to 500 of the 125 mg Depakote Sprinkles capsules left, so that is enough to last for a year.  I also have enough Klonopin although it is not in oversupply because of the harsh scheduling of the substance.

I've been on dozens of psychiatric medications starting with being forced to take Prozac back as a minor in the mid 1990s.  All doctors would cold turkey me from medications.  I did not learn about withdrawal until the mid 2000's by reading Dr. Breggin's books and finding sites similar to this one.  I had one successful full cleansing from medication in 2007 and began to recover from some of the iatrogenic damages.  I started to drink alcohol in 2008 to try and recover from PSSD and then about 6 months later, I lost my ability to sleep and was put into an inpatient psychiatric facility and redrugged.  The only med combination that has allowed me to sleep was 1250 mg of Depakote ER and 3 mg Klonopin.  However, my quality of life is terrible on these meds.  I want to try to get off everything now once again.  I have failed a couple of times trying to come off these meds recently but will try again once I can find a psychiatrist who understands withdrawal and can support me.

 

UPDATE:

 

I have not consumed any alcohol in over 10 years.  May 2019 - I started to reduce Anafranil very slowly so I can see a PSSD specialist.  I also plan on trying stem cell therapy to repair my iatrogenic brain damage.

 

Current meds:  1125 mg Depakote Sprinkles, 3 mg Klonopin

 

Current side effects:  PSSD, insomnia, odd sleep schedule, anhedonia, lack of motivation, cognitive issues, memory loss, hair loss, weight gain, dry mouth

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I feel like I'm hitting my breaking point again.  I only got 2 hours of sleep last night and I had nothing but horrible nightmares.  My mood is completely shot.  I have done no reductions since May 31, 2016 and that was when I dropped off the tiny bit of Depakote Sprinkles (12.5 mg which is so small it does not show up on bloodwork).  I feel like I'm only about a day or two away from being hauled off to the psych ward again.  What can I possibly do for my sleep when even 3 mg of Klonopin isn't helping?

 

Zant, were you having random blackouts when you were taking 12.5mg Depakote sprinkles? How long were you taking that dosage?

 

Have the random blackouts stopped?

 

Whether the drug shows up on bloodwork is not relevant. What matters is how your nervous system responds to decreases. It seems perhaps going off at 12.5mg was too precipitous.

 

If you were not having random blackouts at 12.5mg, I would reinstate 5mg Depakote, see if that helps, then plan to reduce it by very, very small amounts to go off.

 

 

Thank you for answering Alto.  I was not having random blackouts when I was taking 12.5 mg of Depakote Sprinkles.  The blackouts stopped somewhere around the 750 mg to 1000 mg mark of regular Depakote but were happening with greater and greater frequency when I was at 1250 mg of Depakote ER, hence why I wanted to try coming off all meds again instead of just staying on them forever like my pdoc from 2010 to 2015 recommended.  I was only on 12.5 mg of Depakote Sprinkles for one day.  Once I saw that it was undetectable by bloodwork, I reduced by 12.5 mg a day starting around the 62.5 mg mark.  But as you said, now I know that the drug showing up on routine labwork does not matter.  5 mg will be tough to measure on my gram scale but I will try.

 

I just returned from the gym where I did the stationary bike for 8 miles, ran on the treadmill for 2.5 miles and then lifted weights until the place closed.  This was a recommended recovery option for me based on the science from the book Spark.  Eminem stated in multiple interviews that when he almost died from long-term abuse of pain killers, benzos and non-benzo sleep aids, he said the only thing that allowed him to break his addiction and stop his complete insomnia was to "run like a hamster" every single day for hours and hours.

 

My partial options list since I have asked a lot of people:

 

1)  Reinstate the Depakote Sprinkles at 5 mg to try and stabilize

2)  Reinstate the Depakote Sprinkles at 12.5 mg to try and stabilize

3)  Reinstate the Depakote Sprinkles at 125 mg to try and stabilize

4)  Do nothing at all and wait it out since it is probably just protracted withdrawal from Depakote

5)  Follow the "Eminem strategy" and run to the point of exhaustion every single day since cardio is supposed to boost GABA anyhow

6)  Go back to the emergency room for screening and eventual placement back into another psychiatric inpatient unit

7)  Reinstate back to 1250 mg slowly over time on my own at home

8)  Accept I have always had a genetic predisposition to bipolar disorder and I will have to take some combination of meds forever

9)  Accept that I have irreversable iatrogenic bipolar disorder caused by SSRIs and I will have to take some combination of meds forever

10) Go to my neurologist in the morning for testing

11) Get a sleep study done again as quickly as possible

12) Purchase and overnight ship all of the supplements Catherine Creel gave me for recovery back in 2006 - 2007 and take them ASAP

13) Consult with my friend from college who managed to come off multiple psychiatric drugs successfully herself only to become a psychiatrist herself and now try to have her become my new psychiatrist

14) Attempt to get my current psychiatrist to mark me as terminally ill to get Death With Dignity although that has not passed in my state or my pdoc's state yet

 

Since you were kind enough to reply with the most sensible answer, I will go with your option.  However, as crazy as some of these options may sound, a few of them have some validity and perhaps should be used in conjunction with your suggestion of reinstating at the 5 mg mark of Depakote Sprinkles.  Any other thoughts on this?

I've been on dozens of psychiatric medications starting with being forced to take Prozac back as a minor in the mid 1990s.  All doctors would cold turkey me from medications.  I did not learn about withdrawal until the mid 2000's by reading Dr. Breggin's books and finding sites similar to this one.  I had one successful full cleansing from medication in 2007 and began to recover from some of the iatrogenic damages.  I started to drink alcohol in 2008 to try and recover from PSSD and then about 6 months later, I lost my ability to sleep and was put into an inpatient psychiatric facility and redrugged.  The only med combination that has allowed me to sleep was 1250 mg of Depakote ER and 3 mg Klonopin.  However, my quality of life is terrible on these meds.  I want to try to get off everything now once again.  I have failed a couple of times trying to come off these meds recently but will try again once I can find a psychiatrist who understands withdrawal and can support me.

 

UPDATE:

 

I have not consumed any alcohol in over 10 years.  May 2019 - I started to reduce Anafranil very slowly so I can see a PSSD specialist.  I also plan on trying stem cell therapy to repair my iatrogenic brain damage.

 

Current meds:  1125 mg Depakote Sprinkles, 3 mg Klonopin

 

Current side effects:  PSSD, insomnia, odd sleep schedule, anhedonia, lack of motivation, cognitive issues, memory loss, hair loss, weight gain, dry mouth

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My only suggestion for your reinstatement and beyond is to listen to your body. The symptoms are the most important information you have and are at least equally relevant -- probably more relevant -- to your situation than

  • anything written in a pharmacology text book
  • levels of drugs considered "placebo" or "sub-therapeutic"
  • a drug metabolite blood test result

Some people have found Joseph Glenmullen's symptom tracking sheets helpful during reinstatement and withdrawal: Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list
 
I'm sorry to hear that your previous nutritional support program isn't available any more and that their developer has died. That's a loss for you and many others.
 
Please let us know how the reinstatement is going for you.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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Hi Zant, 


I think the first few options are the best.
 

1)  Reinstate the Depakote Sprinkles at 5 mg to try and stabilize

2)  Reinstate the Depakote Sprinkles at 12.5 mg to try and stabilize

3)  Reinstate the Depakote Sprinkles at 125 mg to try and stabilize

4)  Do nothing at all and wait it out since it is probably just protracted withdrawal from Depakote

 

Several ssri's, antipsychotics, opiads and benzo's since 2003.

Flurazepam: rapid taper after 6 weeks usage in beginning of march 2015

Trazodone: rapid taper from 50ms to 0mgs end of july 2015

Current medication:12 mgs seroquel (from 25mgs)

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I made the decision to not reinstate the Depakote because I am probably kindled anyhow.  I am seeing random side effects that I got from medications I have not taken in 7 years or more come and go.  Nausea, heart palpitations, tardive dyskinesia have come and gone.  I have shifted the time I take my 3 mg of Klonopin and magnesium supplements to 11:30 PM instead of spreading it out in the night time.  My sleep has been rather poor most nights.  I took an extremely low dose of baby aspirin three days ago (181 mg out of a possible max dose of 4,000 mg).  It made me sleep for 5 hours straight within about a minute of taking it and I really don't understand why it would have that effect.  I have taken the baby aspirin the past couple of nights but I have seen diminishing effects.  I fell asleep somewhat early for me (1:00 AM to 3:00 AM) while watching TV.  I tried to sleep in my bed after that but was unable to do so.  I got back up and tried to use the computer as a distraction.  I didn't feel tired again until 9:00 AM and I got maybe another 3 hours of light sleep then.  In one view, I could say that I'm at the point where I would say I feel somewhat normal except for the severe insomnia issue.

 

But then I have to look at reality.  Life isn't fair in general.  Nice guys finish last and I am proof of it.  Had I done something to fight back against my bullies or even doctors trying to forcefully drug me when I was younger, I could have avoided all of this.  Other than a couple rare exceptions, I have seen every single person who have treated me so horribly in life go on to have wonderful lives of their own.  They are healthy and able to do what they want to do in life.  Also, my current support system is broken.  I am unable to care for myself because of the insomnia but at the same time I lose cognitive abilities while taking Depakote so I am unable to work because I cannot learn skills at the rate in which is needed in such a fast-paced society.  My family is unable to take care of me and they are actually in need of me now but I cannot help them.  I think I used up most of my strength back in March when my stepfather had a stroke.  He is actually better recovered than me in just a few months though, as he is able to sleep without psych meds and even taking 10 different medications for his heart and diabetes are not as damaging as psychiatric medications.  With the passing of Catherine who helped me with nutritional support and now the mysterious disappearance of my withdrawal psychiatrist, that adds onto the pressure I have.  I work from home and that allows me to pay bills but I am not able to do much with that anymore because of so many problems, so I will probably have to stop that.  Then I will be broke.

 

If the insomnia gets to the point where I feel like I'm going to really break again, I will probably have to throw in the towel and go back on a high level of Depakote since nothing seems to work.  I will probably do this at home with the supply of Depakote Sprinkles I have since I am too afraid of yet another hospitalization.  There is too little control in the hospital setting.  There is far too much violence in the hospitals and there are really no more medications for the psychiatrists to give me.  I will just have to accept that I have brain damage caused by all of those other meds but can only sleep by taking more meds.  I will just have to wait out the rest of my life at home until my parents pass away.  Unless there are miraculous leaps in medicine very soon that allow for the repair of brain damage as severe as mine, I don't think I will survive much longer either.  I was always constantly reminded by my withdrawal psychiatrist that antipsychotics reduce a person's life span by 25 years.  I am already old and time goes by so very quickly.  So, what do I have left, maybe 5 years at best?  And even with a "stabilization" from Depakote withdrawal, it will take close to 5 years to taper Klonopin and there is no guarantee that taper will allow me to sleep and recover.

I've been on dozens of psychiatric medications starting with being forced to take Prozac back as a minor in the mid 1990s.  All doctors would cold turkey me from medications.  I did not learn about withdrawal until the mid 2000's by reading Dr. Breggin's books and finding sites similar to this one.  I had one successful full cleansing from medication in 2007 and began to recover from some of the iatrogenic damages.  I started to drink alcohol in 2008 to try and recover from PSSD and then about 6 months later, I lost my ability to sleep and was put into an inpatient psychiatric facility and redrugged.  The only med combination that has allowed me to sleep was 1250 mg of Depakote ER and 3 mg Klonopin.  However, my quality of life is terrible on these meds.  I want to try to get off everything now once again.  I have failed a couple of times trying to come off these meds recently but will try again once I can find a psychiatrist who understands withdrawal and can support me.

 

UPDATE:

 

I have not consumed any alcohol in over 10 years.  May 2019 - I started to reduce Anafranil very slowly so I can see a PSSD specialist.  I also plan on trying stem cell therapy to repair my iatrogenic brain damage.

 

Current meds:  1125 mg Depakote Sprinkles, 3 mg Klonopin

 

Current side effects:  PSSD, insomnia, odd sleep schedule, anhedonia, lack of motivation, cognitive issues, memory loss, hair loss, weight gain, dry mouth

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Zant, help me understand. I see 2 statements that appear contradictory to me:

  • I made the decision to not reinstate the Depakote because I am probably kindled anyhow.
     
  • If the insomnia gets to the point where I feel like I'm going to really break again, I will probably have to throw in the towel and go back on a high level of Depakote since nothing seems to work.  I will probably do this at home with the supply of Depakote Sprinkles I have since I am too afraid of yet another hospitalization.

It's possible that you posted both these statements because you were thinking "out loud" when posting -- there are many lines between them.  You have no recent experience, at least posted in this thread, to suggest that you've had a kindling reaction.
 
It's only been 3 weeks since your last Depakote dose, well within the time frame that a reinstatement could reduce your withdrawal symptoms. Let us know your plan.
 
Whether you reinstate 5 mg Depakote Sprinkles or not, you'd do well to to keep everything -- drugs, doses, timing -- the same. When dealing with the withdrawal, as you are from the Depakote, making changes only creates more for your CNS/ANS to deal with.
 
About long-term use:

Studies report all the data; summaries and abstracts give key findings; people usually remember only 1 or 2 key facts. Your psychologist's remark about the impact of anti-psychotics on life-span is an average or a median.  For their to be an average some people have shorter lives than predicted, some longer. Many people "beat" the summary statistic of "average" or "median."

 

Why not do what you can to swing the probabilities in your favor and at the same time improve the quality of your life? No effort taking action to improve your life is wasted.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi, Zant.

 

Your latest post struck a chord with me because of some similarities. I was on various drug cocktails starting at 17, and it took me 30 years to get off them. I see you're now on your last drug -  I struggled the most with the last 6.25 mg of Seroquel. Letting go of that last drug meant letting go of a 30-year path that was comfortably familiar. Forging new territory without a safety net, letting emotions return that had been comfortably anesthetized for decades. And these drugs are no picnic to come off, as you know better than many people. Benzos mess with the memory and fear center of the brain, not a pleasant experience for many of us. So some of your thoughts are a result of this. But don't let them distract you. 

 

 

 

 

But then I have to look at reality.  Life isn't fair in general.  Nice guys finish last and I am proof of it.  Had I done something to fight back against my bullies or even doctors trying to forcefully drug me when I was younger, I could have avoided all of this.  

 

 

I don't see you as finishing last at all. Millions of people are trapped on these drugs thinking they are mentally ill. But you're down to your last medication and you have an incredible amount of knowledge, more knowledge than most psychiatrists who dispense these neuro toxins. 

 

Life isn't fair, true enough. But it's also not easy and most people don't get to pick their struggles. This is the hand we were dealt, and you ARE fighting back - you're getting your freedom back. And a clear mind and heathy body. 

 

I don't know if I could have avoided any of this or not, but I honestly doubt it. For awhile I thought that because I did get trapped in it, I didn't have the strength to get myself out of it. That turned out not to be true. We gain an enormous amount of strength through the very process of coming off. New skills are developed. New baselines are created. 

 

 

 

 

 

I am unable to care for myself because of the insomnia but at the same time I lose cognitive abilities while taking Depakote so I am unable to work because I cannot learn skills at the rate in which is needed in such a fast-paced society. 

 

 

Society only seems fast-paced when you're slowed down. Fact is, millions of people around us are currently drugged. Some of them may be doing fine now, but statistically, they will find it's not a downhill ride the entire life journey. You're not giving yourself enough credit. You write really well, and the "learning skills" aspect will return. 

 

The cognitive problems are drug related. You will be able to work again. I'm already seeing cognitive improvements at 13 months off 4 cold turkeys and 2 rapid tapers. Try not to gage your future by where you are now. It's a false reading. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is far too much violence in the hospitals and there are really no more medications for the psychiatrists to give me.  I will just have to accept that I have brain damage caused by all of those other meds but can only sleep by taking more meds.  I will just have to wait out the rest of my life at home until my parents pass away.  

 

 

This is catastrophic thinking, and it's a heavy weight to carry. The only thing I found to work for this is mindfulness. If you're interested, I'll be glad to drop off a few links to some really good videos to help with this type of thinking. 

 

At some point, you've got to let go of these thoughts, to just let go of the weight. I've been in state hospitals, and you're right - they are violent.  Even more reason to concentrate on the present - you've got a home, healthy food, tons of internet support. Why spend your time thinking about the past? Just look at those thoughts as random visitors and send them on their way. They aren't you, they aren't where you're at now. No need to re-visit the hospitals in your mind. Clean house in your mind. Keep it free and open. No need to create your own mental prison. 

 

While you don't have control over many of your symptoms, you have control of this part - the control to let those dark thoughts just pass by. It's hard at first, but if you keep at it, it gets easier and easier. That's the beautiful take away from coming off these drugs. 

 

 

 

 

 

I was always constantly reminded by my withdrawal psychiatrist that antipsychotics reduce a person's life span by 25 years.  I am already old and time goes by so very quickly.  So, what do I have left, maybe 5 years at best?  And even with a "stabilization" from Depakote withdrawal, it will take close to 5 years to taper Klonopin and there is no guarantee that taper will allow me to sleep and recover.

 

 

Here's some information on the reduced life expectancy for people taking antipsychotics: 

 

Patients with schizophrenia have a diminished life expectancy of 15-20 years compared to the general population. Over the last decades excess mortality of suicide has decreased, whereas excess mortality of physical illness, especially cardiovascular disease has increased. Focus attends current somatic co-morbidity, side effects to medication and poor lifestyle. Further actions to prevent excess mortality of physical illness are needed.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25822814

 

Many people with psychotic disorders smoke and have weight gain and cardiovascular disease caused by atypical antipsychotics. And the people who are dying are the ones that are still taking the drugs. You're off antipsychotics and it looks like you have been for quite awhile. 

 

 

I just returned from the gym where I did the stationary bike for 8 miles, ran on the treadmill for 2.5 miles and then lifted weights until the place closed.  

 

 

 

And after reading this, you certainly don't fit the profile of someone with severe mental illness who will die 25 years too soon. 

 

Hang in there, Zant. Life will be completely different once you're off Klonopin and on the way to healing. And if you get into the non-drug coping skills and find some ways of handling your dark thoughts, life will get better even before you have time to taper.  ;)

 

 

 

 

 

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Zant, help me understand. I see 2 statements that appear contradictory to me:

  • I made the decision to not reinstate the Depakote because I am probably kindled anyhow.

     

  • If the insomnia gets to the point where I feel like I'm going to really break again, I will probably have to throw in the towel and go back on a high level of Depakote since nothing seems to work.  I will probably do this at home with the supply of Depakote Sprinkles I have since I am too afraid of yet another hospitalization.

It's possible that you posted both these statements because you were thinking "out loud" when posting -- there are many lines between them.  You have no recent experience, at least posted in this thread, to suggest that you've had a kindling reaction.

 

It's only been 3 weeks since your last Depakote dose, well within the time frame that a reinstatement could reduce your withdrawal symptoms. Let us know your plan.

 

Whether you reinstate 5 mg Depakote Sprinkles or not, you'd do well to to keep everything -- drugs, doses, timing -- the same. When dealing with the withdrawal, as you are from the Depakote, making changes only creates more for your CNS/ANS to deal with.

 

About long-term use:

Studies report all the data; summaries and abstracts give key findings; people usually remember only 1 or 2 key facts. Your psychologist's remark about the impact of anti-psychotics on life-span is an average or a median.  For their to be an average some people have shorter lives than predicted, some longer. Many people "beat" the summary statistic of "average" or "median."

 

Why not do what you can to swing the probabilities in your favor and at the same time improve the quality of your life? No effort taking action to improve your life is wasted.

 

Thank you for responding.  Perhaps, what I'm about to write is too much information but for some reason I feel I need to share it all as you or someone might see something in it of importance.  Yesterday, I tried what I could in order to get through the day.  I ate the usual healthy foods.  I had some mild heart palpitations happen after dinner.  I thought I might as well try and get them under control and attempt to boost GABA levels naturally by exercising.  I managed to make it to my gym at 8:00 PM and worked out until it closed at 10:00 PM.  I think I did around 6.5 miles on the stationary bike, ran 1.2 miles and did some light weight training.  That's not a lot of exercise, but it's something.  After showering, I had noticed that my heart palpitations had stopped and I was feeling much better overall.  When I got home I took my blood pressure and noticed it was a bit high at 133/75 with a heart rate of 86.

 

I took my Klonopin slightly later, this time at 1:00 AM.  I spread out the magnesium glycinate pills like I had done in the past, taking 120 mg at a time about every 30 - 60 minutes starting at 1:00 AM.  I started to feel really tired around 3:30 AM and figured I might at well try not fight the feeling and just try to sleep instead of waiting until 7:00 AM to 10:00 AM which is when I normally fell asleep while taking both Depakote and Klonopin for the past 6 years.  I didn't feel anxious, heart palpitations, racing thoughts or anything like that.  I actually legitimately felt tired.  However, the thing that kept me from sleeping is that I saw flashing light sensations when I closed my eyes.  Those passed rather quickly and then I noticed that when it felt like I was about to fall asleep, I would get a strange sensation across my forehead almost like whatever chemical reaction that is supposed to happen to make me sleep just couldn't occur.  These are some of the things that happened to me when I was cold turkeyed off medications in the past although to a lesser degree this time.  I tried various breathing techniques.  I slept for only an hour at most.  I woke up frustrated and tried the 181 mg of baby aspirin but it did nothing at all.  I just stayed awake after that, ate breakfast and came back on the computer.

 

So with all that said, I think it is probably best to try and reinstate the Depakote Sprinkles.  I said I was probably kindled because I remember back when I had my first manic reaction after being switched from Prozac to Effexor to Serzone to Celexa to Wellbutrin and had to be hospitalized my first time around January 2000, the first line of treatment was a 500 mg pill of Depakote.  I had an out of body experience as my initial reaction to the medication but then as I reentered my body, I was knocked out cold for about 10 hours.  During that hospital stay, I was told I had bipolar disorder and that I needed to stay on 1000 mg of Depakote for the rest of my life.

 

Partial summary of medication history / hospitalizations / other events I remember:

 

Sometime between 1996 to 1997 - forced to take Prozac and Buspar due to suicidal ideation caused by years of bullying, physical and mental abuse

1997 to 1999 - switched back and forth by doctors on and off Prozac, Effexor, Celexa, Serzone, Luvox and Wellbutrin to attempt to find an antidepressant with no side effects

January 2000 - first manic reaction from Wellbutrin, put on 1000 mg Depakote

May 2000 - cold turkeyed Depakote, put on Depakote, Zyprexa and Ativan or Klonopin

July 2000 - cold turkeyed Depakote, Zyprexa and Klonopin, put on Depakote and either Ativan or Klonopin

July 2004 - told I could take a "drug holiday" to stop side effects and to drink on vacation by pdoc, put back on Depakote and Klonopin

June 2006 - quick cross over from Depakote to Lithium and 4 other meds, put on temporary disability, found out about Dr. Peter Breggin, Professor Ashton, etc.

July 2007 - tapered off all meds successfully using Klonopin to Valium crossover, had been on around 25 different meds up to that period of time

June 2008 - moved out on my own for first time since 2003, was given ok by doctors to drink alcohol again to relax while socializing and to attempt to reverse PSSD caused by Prozac initially

Early May 2009 - tried to fix insomnia caused by alcohol, let out of hospital too early due to insurance, put on large med cocktail

Mid May 2009 - tried to fix insomnia, let out of hospital early again due to insurance, put on another large med cocktail

Late May 2009 - tried to fix insomnia, let out of hospital early again due to insurance, put on another large med cocktail

May 2009 to August 2009 - lost everything, forced state inpatient hospital visit due to 3 weeks of no sleep, multiple random forced druggings, was supposed to stay there for rest of my life, let out on Depakote ER, Klonopin, Ambien CR, put on permanent disability

August 2009 to March 2015 - 1250 mg of Depakote ER, 3 mg of Klonopin, eventually started having blackouts too frequently so wanted to stop meds again

May 2015 to June 2015 - overstressed, insomnia hit once I reached 2 mg of Klonopin, taper was too fast, forced hospitalization, let out on Depakote ER, Klonopin

August 2015 - found withdrawal pdoc and began taper off of Depakote ER first, 38+ different medications taken at this point

May 31, 2016 - final day of Depakote Sprinkles, no alcohol in over 7 years, best day of sleep in 11 months, thought things would be fine for a while

July 21, 2016 - crashing and desperate again, need to make decision about Depakote Sprinkles reinstatement dosage amount

 

Looking at that list, because of so many medication switches and so many cold turkeys that is why I think I am kindled.  In 2006, Depakote still had the ability to knock me out, as did most of the antipsychotics.  I was able to sleep on 12.5 mg of Valium during my crossover from Klonopin which ended in 2007.  When 20 mg of Valium was given to try to stop the sleep issues that started in late 2008 from drinking, it did not make me sleep but instead affected my lungs to the point where I could barely breathe.  In 2009, when Depakote ER, Klonopin and Ambien CR was given, it didn't knock me out or depress my nervous system like previous times they did.  I think my GABA system is completely destroyed.

 

So with all that said, I am wondering why 5 mg of Depakote Sprinkles was suggested instead of something higher like the 12.5 mg where I dropped off of, the 62.5 mg where I was stable at or even 125 mg since Depakote can take a few weeks to build up in the bloodstream again for any type of effect.  This is not like an antidepressant where you might take 20 mg like with Prozac.  People on Depakote take usually 1,000 mg to 3,000 mg every day.  It is almost 11:30 AM now and there is still a long day ahead, but I will be taking some dosage of Depakote Sprinkles at around 11:00 PM tonight to hopefully stabilize myself.  I just really want to know if 5 mg is the right way to go.

I've been on dozens of psychiatric medications starting with being forced to take Prozac back as a minor in the mid 1990s.  All doctors would cold turkey me from medications.  I did not learn about withdrawal until the mid 2000's by reading Dr. Breggin's books and finding sites similar to this one.  I had one successful full cleansing from medication in 2007 and began to recover from some of the iatrogenic damages.  I started to drink alcohol in 2008 to try and recover from PSSD and then about 6 months later, I lost my ability to sleep and was put into an inpatient psychiatric facility and redrugged.  The only med combination that has allowed me to sleep was 1250 mg of Depakote ER and 3 mg Klonopin.  However, my quality of life is terrible on these meds.  I want to try to get off everything now once again.  I have failed a couple of times trying to come off these meds recently but will try again once I can find a psychiatrist who understands withdrawal and can support me.

 

UPDATE:

 

I have not consumed any alcohol in over 10 years.  May 2019 - I started to reduce Anafranil very slowly so I can see a PSSD specialist.  I also plan on trying stem cell therapy to repair my iatrogenic brain damage.

 

Current meds:  1125 mg Depakote Sprinkles, 3 mg Klonopin

 

Current side effects:  PSSD, insomnia, odd sleep schedule, anhedonia, lack of motivation, cognitive issues, memory loss, hair loss, weight gain, dry mouth

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Hi, Zant.

 

Your latest post struck a chord with me because of some similarities. I was on various drug cocktails starting at 17, and it took me 30 years to get off them. I see you're now on your last drug -  I struggled the most with the last 6.25 mg of Seroquel. Letting go of that last drug meant letting go of a 30-year path that was comfortably familiar. Forging new territory without a safety net, letting emotions return that had been comfortably anesthetized for decades. And these drugs are no picnic to come off, as you know better than many people. Benzos mess with the memory and fear center of the brain, not a pleasant experience for many of us. So some of your thoughts are a result of this. But don't let them distract you. 

 

 

 

 

But then I have to look at reality.  Life isn't fair in general.  Nice guys finish last and I am proof of it.  Had I done something to fight back against my bullies or even doctors trying to forcefully drug me when I was younger, I could have avoided all of this.  

 

 

I don't see you as finishing last at all. Millions of people are trapped on these drugs thinking they are mentally ill. But you're down to your last medication and you have an incredible amount of knowledge, more knowledge than most psychiatrists who dispense these neuro toxins. 

 

Life isn't fair, true enough. But it's also not easy and most people don't get to pick their struggles. This is the hand we were dealt, and you ARE fighting back - you're getting your freedom back. And a clear mind and heathy body. 

 

I don't know if I could have avoided any of this or not, but I honestly doubt it. For awhile I thought that because I did get trapped in it, I didn't have the strength to get myself out of it. That turned out not to be true. We gain an enormous amount of strength through the very process of coming off. New skills are developed. New baselines are created. 

 

 

 

 

 

I am unable to care for myself because of the insomnia but at the same time I lose cognitive abilities while taking Depakote so I am unable to work because I cannot learn skills at the rate in which is needed in such a fast-paced society. 

 

 

Society only seems fast-paced when you're slowed down. Fact is, millions of people around us are currently drugged. Some of them may be doing fine now, but statistically, they will find it's not a downhill ride the entire life journey. You're not giving yourself enough credit. You write really well, and the "learning skills" aspect will return. 

 

The cognitive problems are drug related. You will be able to work again. I'm already seeing cognitive improvements at 13 months off 4 cold turkeys and 2 rapid tapers. Try not to gage your future by where you are now. It's a false reading. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is far too much violence in the hospitals and there are really no more medications for the psychiatrists to give me.  I will just have to accept that I have brain damage caused by all of those other meds but can only sleep by taking more meds.  I will just have to wait out the rest of my life at home until my parents pass away.  

 

 

This is catastrophic thinking, and it's a heavy weight to carry. The only thing I found to work for this is mindfulness. If you're interested, I'll be glad to drop off a few links to some really good videos to help with this type of thinking. 

 

At some point, you've got to let go of these thoughts, to just let go of the weight. I've been in state hospitals, and you're right - they are violent.  Even more reason to concentrate on the present - you've got a home, healthy food, tons of internet support. Why spend your time thinking about the past? Just look at those thoughts as random visitors and send them on their way. They aren't you, they aren't where you're at now. No need to re-visit the hospitals in your mind. Clean house in your mind. Keep it free and open. No need to create your own mental prison. 

 

While you don't have control over many of your symptoms, you have control of this part - the control to let those dark thoughts just pass by. It's hard at first, but if you keep at it, it gets easier and easier. That's the beautiful take away from coming off these drugs. 

 

 

 

 

 

I was always constantly reminded by my withdrawal psychiatrist that antipsychotics reduce a person's life span by 25 years.  I am already old and time goes by so very quickly.  So, what do I have left, maybe 5 years at best?  And even with a "stabilization" from Depakote withdrawal, it will take close to 5 years to taper Klonopin and there is no guarantee that taper will allow me to sleep and recover.

 

 

Here's some information on the reduced life expectancy for people taking antipsychotics: 

 

Patients with schizophrenia have a diminished life expectancy of 15-20 years compared to the general population. Over the last decades excess mortality of suicide has decreased, whereas excess mortality of physical illness, especially cardiovascular disease has increased. Focus attends current somatic co-morbidity, side effects to medication and poor lifestyle. Further actions to prevent excess mortality of physical illness are needed.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25822814

 

Many people with psychotic disorders smoke and have weight gain and cardiovascular disease caused by atypical antipsychotics. And the people who are dying are the ones that are still taking the drugs. You're off antipsychotics and it looks like you have been for quite awhile. 

 

 

I just returned from the gym where I did the stationary bike for 8 miles, ran on the treadmill for 2.5 miles and then lifted weights until the place closed.  

 

 

 

And after reading this, you certainly don't fit the profile of someone with severe mental illness who will die 25 years too soon. 

 

Hang in there, Zant. Life will be completely different once you're off Klonopin and on the way to healing. And if you get into the non-drug coping skills and find some ways of handling your dark thoughts, life will get better even before you have time to taper.  ;)

 

Shep,

 

Thank you for replying in my time of need.  Your story does give me a little bit of hope.  The one thing I see as a big difference is that I already had my second chance at a recovery when I made it off all meds in 2007 and I blew it.  Unfortunately, I still had PSSD and the treatment plan at the time was ridiculous.  I was given the ok to drink alcohol again and I was just supposed to start socializing with as many people as possible.  If I was somehow able to fall in love and have someone feel the same way, the pair bonding process was supposed to produce some series of chemicals in the brain (I forget what they were called) and reverse a lot of the damage done by the SSRIs.  This was done successfully by someone in one of the PSSD forums.  But stupidly, I thought my nervous system was healed enough that I could handle drinking.  I knew people at the time (and still do) who drink alcohol and they are taking things like Klonopin daily.  I know one girl who is 34 years old and she takes Seroquel and Zoloft and still binge drinks on the weekends and has yet to be put into inpatient.  I mentioned earlier I know someone who was polydrugged, managed to come off meds and is a psychiatrist now.  She has a family and children and she is somehow still able to drink alcohol.  But the alcohol did something to my system that cannot be objectively detected.  There have been a lot of theories:  the alcohol triggered a manic episode in me since I have bipolar disorder, I got alcohol psychosis, psychiatric medications stayed in my system in fatty deposits and the alcohol reacted with them, the alcohol caused some sort of unknown permanent brain damage.  I haven't touched any alcohol in over 7 years and don't plan on ever doing so again.  I've been told that my father had problems drinking just a little bit of alcohol and perhaps there is some sort of genetic component there that was passed down to me.

 

So, really because of the blackouts from the Depakote ER and Klonopin scaring me in late 2014 since I didn't want to crack my head on the sink when I brushed my teeth etc., I went for my third chance at a recovery and it looks like things aren't going well.  There is just too much stress.  The person who helped me get off everything in 2007 just randomly dies at age 59, my 80+ year pdoc is missing still, my stepfather who had a lot to do with me being forcefully drugged had a stroke and is a constant handful, my grandmother keeps getting told she might have cancer, my mom is stressed out to where she is smoking a ridiculous amount and is drinking now herself and it's like how do I handle any of this especially going through a taper?  I will have to reinstate the Depakote Sprinkles to at least try to find some relief, as I do not feel safe getting such little sleep.  I feel like I am a danger to myself and others in my current state of mind.  I do not want to be hospitalized again.  I just hope that I am not kindled and I can find some relief from the reinstatement.  If I can stabilize, I doubt I will try to come off medications again.  I had the advantage of being pushed into a deep depressed sleep from the meds from 2000 to 2007.  12.5 mg of Valium put me to sleep instantly years ago and I had little problems coming off that at the time.  If I had to do a Valium taper now, I would need 60 mg of Valium and that shut my lungs down at 20 mg, so 60 mg would probably kill me.  Now my nervous system is just hyperactive all the time.  The medications don't shut me down anymore.  I remember one pdoc telling me that I was untreatable in one of the hospitalizations right before the state hospitalization.

 

Anyhow, I do thank you for your story as it gives me a little bit of hope.  As long as you don't drink alcohol, it sounds like you will continue to recover and go on to live a great life.  But as for me, I'm just hoping I can get at least 5 hours of sleep even if it means being on Depakote and Klonopin again for the rest of my life.  I will just have to hope that there are some serious advancements in medicine soon that can help me.  I don't know what that would be though.  Xyrem looks like the only thing that would help right now but it is something like $10,000 per month and difficult to get a prescription for.  Maybe something will happen with stem cell research that can help people reverse brain damage?  For now, all I can do is take things day by day and hope I can stabilize so I can remain under the roof you mentioned that I should be grateful for.

I've been on dozens of psychiatric medications starting with being forced to take Prozac back as a minor in the mid 1990s.  All doctors would cold turkey me from medications.  I did not learn about withdrawal until the mid 2000's by reading Dr. Breggin's books and finding sites similar to this one.  I had one successful full cleansing from medication in 2007 and began to recover from some of the iatrogenic damages.  I started to drink alcohol in 2008 to try and recover from PSSD and then about 6 months later, I lost my ability to sleep and was put into an inpatient psychiatric facility and redrugged.  The only med combination that has allowed me to sleep was 1250 mg of Depakote ER and 3 mg Klonopin.  However, my quality of life is terrible on these meds.  I want to try to get off everything now once again.  I have failed a couple of times trying to come off these meds recently but will try again once I can find a psychiatrist who understands withdrawal and can support me.

 

UPDATE:

 

I have not consumed any alcohol in over 10 years.  May 2019 - I started to reduce Anafranil very slowly so I can see a PSSD specialist.  I also plan on trying stem cell therapy to repair my iatrogenic brain damage.

 

Current meds:  1125 mg Depakote Sprinkles, 3 mg Klonopin

 

Current side effects:  PSSD, insomnia, odd sleep schedule, anhedonia, lack of motivation, cognitive issues, memory loss, hair loss, weight gain, dry mouth

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6)  Go back to the emergency room for screening and eventual placement back into another psychiatric inpatient unit

 

When I first decided to go off psychotropic meds, my husband and I agreed that no matter what happened we would not panic and I would under no circumstances return to the hospital. They held no answers there. Only more of the same poison that had stripped me of my career, my social life and my health.

 

This has not been an easy commitment to keep. The despair and agitation have become so overpowering that I've had to lock myself in a room, wrap myself in a blanket and cry and scream for hours on end. But that was the key. Even though I had to take extreme measures to keep from hurting myself or anyone else, i took those measures. I made that decision. I was still in control.

 

Every time I've given up control to someone else, whether it be my ex-husband or some doctor, its always ended badly. I wouldn't be hear now if I had listened to my own internal voice screaming "THIS ISN'T RIGHT" every time they wanted to add another bit of poison to the mix.

 

I know how scary it can be to feel completely out of control. You just want someone to fix it, make it go away. But THEY can't only YOU CAN. On some level you must believe this or you wouldn't be here.

 

When the worst of the waves hit. When it feels like I've always felt this awful and I always will, I just keep telling myself "This too will pass. It always has and it always will." And what do you know? It always does. :)

 

I'm sorry that you are having such a hard time right now, but I hope these words bring you some encouragement. Know you are not alone.

 

Peace.

PatriciaVP@AbleWriterSays My Intro

 

Zoloft 150-200 mg- on and off between 1998 and 2004.

 

Lexapro 40 mg - 2004-2013 30 mg 2013 - August 2015 20 mg August 2015- September 2015 15 mg September 2015 - October 2015 10 mg October 2015 -Nov. 1 2015. Nov. 2015 increased dose to 12.5 mg to stabilize. Dec. 28 2015 11.25 mg March 29, 2016 10 mg. August 1, 2016 9 mg. October 23, 2016 8.1 mg. Nov. 29, 2016 7.5 mg. Feb. 25, 2017 7 mg. April 9, 2017 6.5 mg. June 2017 6 mg. Aug. 2018 5.75 mg March 2019 5.5 mg Apr. 2019 5.25 mg. June 2019 5 mg Sept. 2019 4.75 mg Nov. 2019 4.5 mg Dec. 2019  4.25 April 7 2020 4mg 

 

Depakote 1000 mg 2008-2013  750 2013-Dec 2015 500 mg Dec 2015 to Feb 2, 2016. Sopped completely Feb 2 2016.

 

Adderall 40mg 2004-Feb 29, 2016. Feb 29,2016 - reduced Adderall to 20 mg based on pdoc's recommendations. March 29, 2016 - Reduced Adderall to 15 mg. April 30 reduced Adderall to 10 mgs. May 28, 2016 reduced Adderall to 5 mgs.June 8, 2016 stopped taking Adderall due to extreme agitation.

 

Amphetamine 20mg 2008 - 1/16. 1/16 - Stopped Amphetamine completely because pdoc did not renew script.

WWW.PSYCHFREE.NET 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

...  I am wondering why 5 mg of Depakote Sprinkles was suggested instead of something higher like the 12.5 mg where I dropped off of, the 62.5 mg where I was stable at or even 125 mg since Depakote can take a few weeks to build up in the bloodstream again for any type of effect.

Zant, 5 mg was suggested to test whether your CNS responded to the reintroduction. It's not an issue of blood levels or serum concentration.

 

Your central nervous system has adapted to Depakote by a combination of upregulating some neurotransmitter receptors, downregulating others, and possibly modifying neurotransmitter production. The reintroduction of Zepakote, even a small amount, may soothe the "hungry beast" of your destabilized CNS.

 

The links and discussion in this thread may be helpful:  :What is withdrawal syndrome

 

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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Thanks again for replying.  I finally managed to reach my pdoc and he said try to come visit him tomorrow.  I said I would not be able to visit him tomorrow given my circumstances.  He does not want me to go to the ER because he fears they will give me an antipsychotic.  He wants me to reinstate a low dose of Depakote Sprinkles although he admittedly does not know what amount I should be reinstating at.  I tried resting in my chair only to now find that my symptoms have switched to mild myoclonic jerks and mild brain zaps.  While not nearly as severe as when discontinuing other medications, the fear from them and the realization of failing my final chance at a taper was so intense that cried for at least 30 minutes straight.  I have not cried that much probably since before being medicated at all.  I don't know if the crying is a sign of healing or withdrawal or progression of iatrogenes or progression of mental illness.  I will however reinstate the 5 mg of Depakote Sprinkles as a test.  As the outcome of this is very unpredictable, I will leave this information in case this is my final post for a long time due to possible forced hospitalization.  Perhaps it can help someone who is on Depakote and suffering from it to come off safely.

 

Reducing Dr. Reddy's brand of Depakote Sprinkles
Scale's bowl is approximately 2.705 grams
Remember to tare to 0 to account for the bowl's weight
125 mg Depakote Sprinkles contents inside weighs .250 grams
 
.5 mg Depakote = .001 grams
1 mg Depakote = .002 grams
1.25 mg Depakote = .0025 grams
2.5 mg Depakote = .005 grams
5 mg Depakote = .01 grams
10 mg Depakote = .02 grams
12.5 mg Depakote = .025 grams
25 mg Depakote = .0500 grams
50 mg Depakote = .1 grams
62.5 mg Depakote = .125 grams
75 mg Depakote = .15 grams
100 mg Depakote = .2 grams
125 mg Depakote = .250 grams
 
Perhaps this list can save lives by making people afraid enough to never start psychiatric drugs in the first place and to seek other alternatives that do not harm the brain and nervous system.
 
Psychiatric Medication History Since Mid 1990's To Present
 
Here are the psychiatric medications that I remember and/or have official medical records that I've taken since the mid 1990's either by force or coercion starting as a minor.  The list is in somewhat of a chronological order.  Many times I took these in combination with other psychiatric medications starting with the Depakote / Zyprexa combination.  I believe the most medications I've ever been on at the same time was 6.  The end result appears to be permanent brain damage resulting in many things but most noticeably permanent sexual dysfunction and permanent insomnia.
 
1) Prozac
2) Buspar
3) Effexor
4) Serzone
5) Celexa
6) Luvox
7) Remeron
8) Wellbutrin
9) Depakote
10) Zyprexa
11) Risperdal
12) Trazodone
13) Ativan
14) Klonopin
15) Neurontin
16) Rozerem
17) Lexapro
18) Lunesta
19) Sonata
20) Ambien
21) Lamictal
22) Lithium
23) Valium
24) Synthroid
25) Seroquel
26) Abilify
27) Geodon
28) Haldol
29) Cogentin
30) Restoril
31) Topamax
32) Tegretol
33) Trileptal
34) Ambien CR
35) Depakote ER
36) Doxepin
37) Vistaril
38) Depakote Sprinkles

I've been on dozens of psychiatric medications starting with being forced to take Prozac back as a minor in the mid 1990s.  All doctors would cold turkey me from medications.  I did not learn about withdrawal until the mid 2000's by reading Dr. Breggin's books and finding sites similar to this one.  I had one successful full cleansing from medication in 2007 and began to recover from some of the iatrogenic damages.  I started to drink alcohol in 2008 to try and recover from PSSD and then about 6 months later, I lost my ability to sleep and was put into an inpatient psychiatric facility and redrugged.  The only med combination that has allowed me to sleep was 1250 mg of Depakote ER and 3 mg Klonopin.  However, my quality of life is terrible on these meds.  I want to try to get off everything now once again.  I have failed a couple of times trying to come off these meds recently but will try again once I can find a psychiatrist who understands withdrawal and can support me.

 

UPDATE:

 

I have not consumed any alcohol in over 10 years.  May 2019 - I started to reduce Anafranil very slowly so I can see a PSSD specialist.  I also plan on trying stem cell therapy to repair my iatrogenic brain damage.

 

Current meds:  1125 mg Depakote Sprinkles, 3 mg Klonopin

 

Current side effects:  PSSD, insomnia, odd sleep schedule, anhedonia, lack of motivation, cognitive issues, memory loss, hair loss, weight gain, dry mouth

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I moved 2 posts from SeasideDiva to her introduction thread because much of it was about her individual situaton.  She had comments for Zant & Shep, quoted below.  To see the full post and the 2nd one, click on the swoopy arrow in the top right corner of the quote box.

And Zant:
Your struggle is heartbreaking and your resilience nothing short of amazing. You are obviously highly intelligent; the drugs and lack of sleep couldn't take that away from you! I too hope for more advancements in medicine and believe there will be. The medical profession is just starting to show some awareness of these issues with bad medicine, thanks to some champions of the cause.

Shep:
Your response to Zant brought tears to my eyes and joy to my heart. It is filled with hope and sound advise and inspired me to write this down and get a bit of the weight off.

I thank you for listening. I thank you for sharing. I see the value and beauty in all of you.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.
1997-1999 Effexor; 2002-2005 Effexor XR 37.5 mg linear taper, dropping same #beads/week with bad results

Cymbalta 60 mg 2012 - 2015; 2016: 20 mg to 7 mg exact doses and dates in this post; 2017: 6.3 mg to  0.0 mg  Aug. 12; details here


scallywag's Introduction
Online spreadsheet for dose taper calculations and nz11's THE WORKS spreadsheet

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I moved 2 posts from SeasideDiva to her introduction thread because much of it was about her individual situaton.  She had comments for Zant & Shep, quoted below.  To see the full post and the 2nd one, click on the swoopy arrow in the top right corner of the quote box.

And Zant:

Your struggle is heartbreaking and your resilience nothing short of amazing. You are obviously highly intelligent; the drugs and lack of sleep couldn't take that away from you! I too hope for more advancements in medicine and believe there will be. The medical profession is just starting to show some awareness of these issues with bad medicine, thanks to some champions of the cause.

 

Shep:

Your response to Zant brought tears to my eyes and joy to my heart. It is filled with hope and sound advise and inspired me to write this down and get a bit of the weight off.

 

I thank you for listening. I thank you for sharing. I see the value and beauty in all of you.

 

 

scallywag,

 

Thank you for your help again.  I have reintroduced 5 mg of Depakote Sprinkles into my system.  I'm not sure if it is a placebo effect or if the Depakote Sprinkles cross the blood brain barrier quickly but I feel much better already.  All I can do is wait and hope for the best.

I've been on dozens of psychiatric medications starting with being forced to take Prozac back as a minor in the mid 1990s.  All doctors would cold turkey me from medications.  I did not learn about withdrawal until the mid 2000's by reading Dr. Breggin's books and finding sites similar to this one.  I had one successful full cleansing from medication in 2007 and began to recover from some of the iatrogenic damages.  I started to drink alcohol in 2008 to try and recover from PSSD and then about 6 months later, I lost my ability to sleep and was put into an inpatient psychiatric facility and redrugged.  The only med combination that has allowed me to sleep was 1250 mg of Depakote ER and 3 mg Klonopin.  However, my quality of life is terrible on these meds.  I want to try to get off everything now once again.  I have failed a couple of times trying to come off these meds recently but will try again once I can find a psychiatrist who understands withdrawal and can support me.

 

UPDATE:

 

I have not consumed any alcohol in over 10 years.  May 2019 - I started to reduce Anafranil very slowly so I can see a PSSD specialist.  I also plan on trying stem cell therapy to repair my iatrogenic brain damage.

 

Current meds:  1125 mg Depakote Sprinkles, 3 mg Klonopin

 

Current side effects:  PSSD, insomnia, odd sleep schedule, anhedonia, lack of motivation, cognitive issues, memory loss, hair loss, weight gain, dry mouth

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  • Administrator

Zant, these drugs are very strong. Good to hear 5mg seems to help. It will take at least 4 days to reach steady state in your system, please let us know how you're doing.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Psychiatric Medication History Since Mid 1990's To Present
 
Here are the psychiatric medications that I remember and/or have official medical records that I've taken since the mid 1990's either by force or coercion starting as a minor.  The list is in somewhat of a chronological order.  Many times I took these in combination with other psychiatric medications starting with the Depakote / Zyprexa combination.  I believe the most medications I've ever been on at the same time was 6.  The end result appears to be permanent brain damage resulting in many things but most noticeably permanent sexual dysfunction and permanent insomnia.
 
1) Prozac
2) Buspar
3) Effexor
4) Serzone
5) Celexa
6) Luvox
7) Remeron
8) Wellbutrin
9) Depakote
10) Zyprexa
11) Risperdal
12) Trazodone
13) Ativan
14) Klonopin
15) Neurontin
16) Rozerem
17) Lexapro
18) Lunesta
19) Sonata
20) Ambien
21) Lamictal
22) Lithium
23) Valium
24) Synthroid
25) Seroquel
26) Abilify
27) Geodon
28) Haldol
29) Cogentin
30) Restoril
31) Topamax
32) Tegretol
33) Trileptal
34) Ambien CR
35) Depakote ER
36) Doxepin
37) Vistaril
38) Depakote Sprinkles

 

 

 

I'm glad to hear you are doing better on the reinstatement. Please keep careful notes of your symptoms, as this will help guide the remainder of your taper.

 

This is an extensive list of drugs. You and I have similar histories. These are the ones I wrote down on my Intro thread:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7419-sheps-journey/?p=113897

 

I don't understand why you're saying your symptoms are permanent. You're still on the medication, but after you come off and give your mind and body time to heal, you'll get better and better. 

 

I never thought I would be able to sleep after 30 years of taking these massive cocktails of drugs every day, especially the antipsychotics, but I'm sleeping without anything now for about 5 - 7 hours a night. My cognitive skills are slowly returning and life is going to be good again. 

 

One thought concerning exercise -  Some people find that exercise other than walking can rev up symptoms, so you may want to try slowing down your exercise routine or at least doing it earlier in the day just in case it is causing problems. 

 

And try not to catastrophize. When you catastrophize (i.e. I'm permanently damaged, I'll never heal, I'm going to end up in the hospital, etc), you're setting yourself up for failure even before your taper is over. But Zant, you've already come off a ton of meds. You're getting closer and closer to your goal. These are the thoughts to carry with you through the day and hold onto at night.

 

I was notorious about having looping, dark, intrusive thoughts, but I've found some techniques that help with that. Here is one of them, a guided meditation to help you learn to let go of these negative thoughts:

 

Guided Meditation for Detachment From Over-Thinking (Anxiety / OCD / Depression)

 

This is a post I wrote about the different videos that really helped me learn to sleep after 30 years of drugging myself to sleep every night. As you can read, it was really a process that occurred as I was coming off the last cocktail of drugs. 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6122-guided-meditations-calming-videos-sleep-hypnosis/?p=215837

 

This is just one method to learn these kinds of skills. If this isn't something that resonates, please take a look through the non-drug technique section of the forum.  These are powerful skills to learn. Once you get started, a lot of the fears and worries you have about not healing will simply go away. They can't compete with the power of these new skills. If you want something stronger than drugs, here you go: 

 

Non-drug Techniques to Cope with Emotional Symptoms

 

Wishing you success on your tapers. Please let us know how you're doing. 

 

 

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Zant, these drugs are very strong. Good to hear 5mg seems to help. It will take at least 4 days to reach steady state in your system, please let us know how you're doing.

 

I agree, these drugs are horrible and 4 days might be unmanageable by me at this point.  I completely broke down again crying in the middle of the night randomly just trying to find food to eat.  It started to feel like I was going to have a psychotic break.  I had an emergency telepsychiatry session with my pdoc friend and explained the whole situation.  She is willing to see me on an outpatient basis but because of her hospital's distance I wouldn't have ended up in her hospital with an ER visit, so I will have to try and make it through the weekend before I can get an outpatient intake with her hospital.  If I go to the ER now, I will just be locked up on suicide watch and placed in whatever hospital has a bed open now in my local area.  I was told that I should reinstate at 250 mg to allow the psychotic symptoms to subside.  My parents kept a close eye on me to see when I would go in and out of sleep.  The psychotic symptoms subsided at 250 mg but I only managed to get an hour or two of sleep.  While not an official diagnosis yet, I was told it appears to be bipolar disorder triggered by the antidepressants yet is only treatable and manageable with medications such as Depakote and I will have to titrate back up to a therapeutic range of Depakote if symptoms do not go away soon.  It doesn't look like going off meds again is going to be an option for me at this point.   :(

I've been on dozens of psychiatric medications starting with being forced to take Prozac back as a minor in the mid 1990s.  All doctors would cold turkey me from medications.  I did not learn about withdrawal until the mid 2000's by reading Dr. Breggin's books and finding sites similar to this one.  I had one successful full cleansing from medication in 2007 and began to recover from some of the iatrogenic damages.  I started to drink alcohol in 2008 to try and recover from PSSD and then about 6 months later, I lost my ability to sleep and was put into an inpatient psychiatric facility and redrugged.  The only med combination that has allowed me to sleep was 1250 mg of Depakote ER and 3 mg Klonopin.  However, my quality of life is terrible on these meds.  I want to try to get off everything now once again.  I have failed a couple of times trying to come off these meds recently but will try again once I can find a psychiatrist who understands withdrawal and can support me.

 

UPDATE:

 

I have not consumed any alcohol in over 10 years.  May 2019 - I started to reduce Anafranil very slowly so I can see a PSSD specialist.  I also plan on trying stem cell therapy to repair my iatrogenic brain damage.

 

Current meds:  1125 mg Depakote Sprinkles, 3 mg Klonopin

 

Current side effects:  PSSD, insomnia, odd sleep schedule, anhedonia, lack of motivation, cognitive issues, memory loss, hair loss, weight gain, dry mouth

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It sounds less like "bipolar disorder triggered by the antidepressants" and more like a way too rapid taper off Depakote. 

 

I'm going to have other more experienced mods touch base with you, Zant. If you are in a crisis state, you're correct - it doesn't sound like now is the time to taper. You really do need to stabilize. And then you can try again and go much slower, especially at the end. 

 

It took me many years to figure this out and finally get off all these meds, so this isn't the end. It's just a temporary set back. Hang in there. 

 

 

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Psychiatric Medication History Since Mid 1990's To Present
 
Here are the psychiatric medications that I remember and/or have official medical records that I've taken since the mid 1990's either by force or coercion starting as a minor.  The list is in somewhat of a chronological order.  Many times I took these in combination with other psychiatric medications starting with the Depakote / Zyprexa combination.  I believe the most medications I've ever been on at the same time was 6.  The end result appears to be permanent brain damage resulting in many things but most noticeably permanent sexual dysfunction and permanent insomnia.
 
1) Prozac
2) Buspar
3) Effexor
4) Serzone
5) Celexa
6) Luvox
7) Remeron
8) Wellbutrin
9) Depakote
10) Zyprexa
11) Risperdal
12) Trazodone
13) Ativan
14) Klonopin
15) Neurontin
16) Rozerem
17) Lexapro
18) Lunesta
19) Sonata
20) Ambien
21) Lamictal
22) Lithium
23) Valium
24) Synthroid
25) Seroquel
26) Abilify
27) Geodon
28) Haldol
29) Cogentin
30) Restoril
31) Topamax
32) Tegretol
33) Trileptal
34) Ambien CR
35) Depakote ER
36) Doxepin
37) Vistaril
38) Depakote Sprinkles

 

 

 

I'm glad to hear you are doing better on the reinstatement. Please keep careful notes of your symptoms, as this will help guide the remainder of your taper.

 

This is an extensive list of drugs. You and I have similar histories. These are the ones I wrote down on my Intro thread:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7419-sheps-journey/?p=113897

 

I don't understand why you're saying your symptoms are permanent. You're still on the medication, but after you come off and give your mind and body time to heal, you'll get better and better. 

 

I never thought I would be able to sleep after 30 years of taking these massive cocktails of drugs every day, especially the antipsychotics, but I'm sleeping without anything now for about 5 - 7 hours a night. My cognitive skills are slowly returning and life is going to be good again. 

 

One thought concerning exercise -  Some people find that exercise other than walking can rev up symptoms, so you may want to try slowing down your exercise routine or at least doing it earlier in the day just in case it is causing problems. 

 

And try not to catastrophize. When you catastrophize (i.e. I'm permanently damaged, I'll never heal, I'm going to end up in the hospital, etc), you're setting yourself up for failure even before your taper is over. But Zant, you've already come off a ton of meds. You're getting closer and closer to your goal. These are the thoughts to carry with you through the day and hold onto at night.

 

I was notorious about having looping, dark, intrusive thoughts, but I've found some techniques that help with that. Here is one of them, a guided meditation to help you learn to let go of these negative thoughts:

 

Guided Meditation for Detachment From Over-Thinking (Anxiety / OCD / Depression)

 

This is a post I wrote about the different videos that really helped me learn to sleep after 30 years of drugging myself to sleep every night. As you can read, it was really a process that occurred as I was coming off the last cocktail of drugs. 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6122-guided-meditations-calming-videos-sleep-hypnosis/?p=215837

 

This is just one method to learn these kinds of skills. If this isn't something that resonates, please take a look through the non-drug technique section of the forum.  These are powerful skills to learn. Once you get started, a lot of the fears and worries you have about not healing will simply go away. They can't compete with the power of these new skills. If you want something stronger than drugs, here you go: 

 

Non-drug Techniques to Cope with Emotional Symptoms

 

Wishing you success on your tapers. Please let us know how you're doing. 

 

 

Thank you again for your desire to help.  I will look through the resources you have provided to distract myself.  I don't know what is going to happen but even my pdoc friend said I most likely have bipolar disorder caused by the antidepressants and other medications which is only manageable at this time by Depakote and Klonopin.  You have taken a lot of medications just like I did but did you ever have any issues with alcohol while taking meds or not taking meds?  I really think that is the key factor that ruined my recovery.  Yes, I see what I said seems to be catastrophizing again.  I just don't know what else to say other than I want relief whether it be from being on meds again or not.

I've been on dozens of psychiatric medications starting with being forced to take Prozac back as a minor in the mid 1990s.  All doctors would cold turkey me from medications.  I did not learn about withdrawal until the mid 2000's by reading Dr. Breggin's books and finding sites similar to this one.  I had one successful full cleansing from medication in 2007 and began to recover from some of the iatrogenic damages.  I started to drink alcohol in 2008 to try and recover from PSSD and then about 6 months later, I lost my ability to sleep and was put into an inpatient psychiatric facility and redrugged.  The only med combination that has allowed me to sleep was 1250 mg of Depakote ER and 3 mg Klonopin.  However, my quality of life is terrible on these meds.  I want to try to get off everything now once again.  I have failed a couple of times trying to come off these meds recently but will try again once I can find a psychiatrist who understands withdrawal and can support me.

 

UPDATE:

 

I have not consumed any alcohol in over 10 years.  May 2019 - I started to reduce Anafranil very slowly so I can see a PSSD specialist.  I also plan on trying stem cell therapy to repair my iatrogenic brain damage.

 

Current meds:  1125 mg Depakote Sprinkles, 3 mg Klonopin

 

Current side effects:  PSSD, insomnia, odd sleep schedule, anhedonia, lack of motivation, cognitive issues, memory loss, hair loss, weight gain, dry mouth

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It sounds less like "bipolar disorder triggered by the antidepressants" and more like a way too rapid taper off Depakote. 

 

I'm going to have other more experienced mods touch base with you, Zant. If you are in a crisis state, you're correct - it doesn't sound like now is the time to taper. You really do need to stabilize. And then you can try again and go much slower, especially at the end. 

 

It took me many years to figure this out and finally get off all these meds, so this isn't the end. It's just a temporary set back. Hang in there. 

 

Your first sentence is what I believed for many years and I would like to believe again.  You have unbelievable positivity and strength.  Yes, I am in a crisis state.  Now isn't the time to taper.  I probably should have stopped my taper when my stepfather had the stroke back in March because that was and is such a triggering event.  Even as the sun is setting right now I am afraid of what is going to happen when I take my Depakote and Klonopin.  I just want them to work again and let me sleep so I can escape this nightmare.  I see my mother able to sleep anytime she wants.  Even my stepfather who takes 8 to 12 different medications for his heart can sleep and that is after a stroke.  They both are chronic cigarette smokers for over 50 years but apparently isn't bad as taking Prozac.  I'm jealous of the fact that they can sleep and I cannot.  I keep hearing happy news about other people on Facebook and I feel like I'm never going to reach that.  I'm supposed to go to a concert with a friend tomorrow and now I probably cannot because I do not know if I am safe to drive or how I will react being around crowds of people or loud noise even with earplugs.  Sorry.  :(

I've been on dozens of psychiatric medications starting with being forced to take Prozac back as a minor in the mid 1990s.  All doctors would cold turkey me from medications.  I did not learn about withdrawal until the mid 2000's by reading Dr. Breggin's books and finding sites similar to this one.  I had one successful full cleansing from medication in 2007 and began to recover from some of the iatrogenic damages.  I started to drink alcohol in 2008 to try and recover from PSSD and then about 6 months later, I lost my ability to sleep and was put into an inpatient psychiatric facility and redrugged.  The only med combination that has allowed me to sleep was 1250 mg of Depakote ER and 3 mg Klonopin.  However, my quality of life is terrible on these meds.  I want to try to get off everything now once again.  I have failed a couple of times trying to come off these meds recently but will try again once I can find a psychiatrist who understands withdrawal and can support me.

 

UPDATE:

 

I have not consumed any alcohol in over 10 years.  May 2019 - I started to reduce Anafranil very slowly so I can see a PSSD specialist.  I also plan on trying stem cell therapy to repair my iatrogenic brain damage.

 

Current meds:  1125 mg Depakote Sprinkles, 3 mg Klonopin

 

Current side effects:  PSSD, insomnia, odd sleep schedule, anhedonia, lack of motivation, cognitive issues, memory loss, hair loss, weight gain, dry mouth

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Jump into those guided meditations I posted like your life depends on them, my friend. It's really important for you to develop some non-drug coping skills. When you go on these drugs young, you don't learn the self-soothing skills you need. But that doesn't mean you can't learn them now. 

 

You asked if I have alcohol use in my history and the answer is "yes". I did binge drink to forget life a lot as a teenager and into my early twenties. I stopped drinking when I was 24, so that's 24 years ago. 

 

While I do think alcohol can cause some serious damage, I also believe in the neuroplasticity theory of the brain. There's a lot of research into this now, and we can recover from an enormous amount of damage. We are not stuck. We grow. We develop new skills. 

 

Because I went on these drugs so young, I didn't develop any self-soothing skills. MIndfulness is now my go-to when I feel like I'm going to lose it. It's automatic now because I got into those videos about two years ago.

 

I really don't see how anyone who was drugged at a young age and stayed anaesthetized for years can come off these drugs without these coping skills already in place. I know you're dealing with some real tragedies with your family, and I'm very sorry you're having to deal with that along with being sick yourself. But these self-soothing skills will help you deal with not only insomnia, but also anxiety and grief and give you a real sense of who your "true self" is. That's something that gets lost in the haze of drugs when you're placed on them before you really know who you are. 

 

But here's the deal with coming off them - you get to decide who you are off the drugs. You get to create your own baseline. There's a lot of freedom to this, but it does take a lot of work. And it's definitely worth it. The very process of coming off these drugs is the very process of developing the skills you need. 

 

Go through the non-drug coping techniques thread. Find some things that "speak" to you. Let this be a journey of exploration. Look at your symptoms with curiosity. As my favorite guru Mooji says, "Your thoughts are just visitors and you are not a hotel. Don't let them in". The problem isn't your thoughts - it's your interpretations.

 

Learning to take a step back, let these thoughts come and go, is key. After all, these thoughts are nothing more than withdrawal lies. And this is a technique that all of us can learn.  We don't need drugs to drown these thoughts. They won't hurt us unless we engage with them. Think of them as dangerous criminals passing you by on the street. Would you confront someone with a gun or a knife who's walking down the street? Lol! Of course not! You let them pass. So just let those dark thoughts pass. 

 

It's not a painful process and there are no side effects. Just relax and listen. And then let those dark thoughts wander on. They aren't you. They aren't who you are. Once you clear your mind of those thoughts, you're free to build your new baseline. 

 

Nervousness, Anxiety & Fear ~ Spoken by Mooji

 

 

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My mind is racing.  I'm going to try the guided meditation now.

I've been on dozens of psychiatric medications starting with being forced to take Prozac back as a minor in the mid 1990s.  All doctors would cold turkey me from medications.  I did not learn about withdrawal until the mid 2000's by reading Dr. Breggin's books and finding sites similar to this one.  I had one successful full cleansing from medication in 2007 and began to recover from some of the iatrogenic damages.  I started to drink alcohol in 2008 to try and recover from PSSD and then about 6 months later, I lost my ability to sleep and was put into an inpatient psychiatric facility and redrugged.  The only med combination that has allowed me to sleep was 1250 mg of Depakote ER and 3 mg Klonopin.  However, my quality of life is terrible on these meds.  I want to try to get off everything now once again.  I have failed a couple of times trying to come off these meds recently but will try again once I can find a psychiatrist who understands withdrawal and can support me.

 

UPDATE:

 

I have not consumed any alcohol in over 10 years.  May 2019 - I started to reduce Anafranil very slowly so I can see a PSSD specialist.  I also plan on trying stem cell therapy to repair my iatrogenic brain damage.

 

Current meds:  1125 mg Depakote Sprinkles, 3 mg Klonopin

 

Current side effects:  PSSD, insomnia, odd sleep schedule, anhedonia, lack of motivation, cognitive issues, memory loss, hair loss, weight gain, dry mouth

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  • Moderator Emeritus

It's going to be okay, Zant. You don't have to figure this out in one day. Take it as an exploration, an adventure. This is a "healing" process and something I think you'll relax into and perhaps even enjoy as you learn to let go of your anxieties and find the "real" you underneath all of the meds you were on. From what I've read in your posts, you're very smart and articulate. Add that to your new baseline and then build on it with some new coping skills. 

 

And then keep learning new skills and adding them to your baseline. By the time you're off all of your meds, you'll be ready to handle whatever comes your way with confidence. And new experiences and relationships will come into play, building more and more into your baseline until your "medicated life" will be a long, distant memory. 

 

Sending healing vibes your way. 

 

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hey Zant:

 

 Yes, I am in a crisis state.  Now isn't the time to taper.

 

 

This is wisdom!  Holding is hard work.  Holding is healing.  Recognize those times in your life when it is time to taper, and time to rest.

 

After your too-fast taper, this is time to rest, and an awesome time to learn new techniques.  There are zillions of them available on the web - find the ones that appeal to you, that intrigue you, that capture your attention and distract you from your pain.

 

I agree with Shep that while drinking is bad and complicating - it's like with your parents and cigs.  You can come off cigs in a matter of months.  You can walk away from alcohol forever (but you still have to "mind the beast") and your brain can heal once you quit alcohol.  But what's up with us getting hooked on drugs that aren't even FUN?  And take YEARS to heal from?  That's just not fair!  I guess my point is, the brain heals from alcohol quite quickly; from these psych drugs - not so much.

 

Here are some of my favorite tools (I prefer techniques that use my body, too - I find them more engaging when I'm racing):

Morning Yoga for the Challenged Nervous System

Legs on the wall - switch off your nerves, calm and heal

Kelly McGonigal - Breath Yoga - Attention

Qi Gong: 7 Minutes of Magic for Health

Jon Kabat-Zinn Cure Depression and Anxiety

 

So - don't beat yourself up.  Work with what you've got.  We're not going to whip you until you taper - the goal here is for you to be in charge of what you are doing, to be in charge of your health.  You tapered too fast, you lost control - but you will get it back.  Be patient and kind with yourself.  

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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Zant,

 

I am following your story. I care about you!

 

Please keep trying and make use of the wonderful wisdom and tools that the mods and others have to offer. This is your safe place! I admire your strength against all odds. You give me strength! Imagine writing your own story in the success story forum one day. For now, just try to believe you are worth it as we all do.

 

I wish you healing sleep and glimpses of peace....

 

S

  • 64 years old. A/Ds over 20(?) years for depression, anxiety/social anxiety, last of which was Sertraline 100mg. Decided to wean off, the catalyst being the book "Moody *******" Julie Holland MD, hoping to improve my overall health (??) and dead libido (single again and re-entering the dreaded dating world) reduced to 50mg 8-6-15, 25mg 8-13-15, then stopped entirely on 8-21-16. Withdrawals with zaps, digestive issues, dizzy etc for a couple of months a week or two after stopping Now 3-24-16 still quite depressed with occasional irrational anger, and want to stay off, but wonder if it's worth it since I was at least not AS depressed (the social anxiety was never helped by the meds). Is the "cure" worse than continuing SSRIs?

  • Gender

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I tried the guided meditations.  While they do seem to help me relax, they didn't make me sleep.  I'm back up to 500 mg of Depakote Sprinkles and I only got about an hour of sleep.  I cannot function like this.  My first intake evaluation won't be until July.  That's too far away.  I don't feel safe and I feel like I'm going to harm myself, so I'm going back to inpatient.  I'll probably end up worse but who knows, maybe they can just get my Depakote level up properly and then I'll be able to sleep again.  I'm sorry I failed everyone.

I've been on dozens of psychiatric medications starting with being forced to take Prozac back as a minor in the mid 1990s.  All doctors would cold turkey me from medications.  I did not learn about withdrawal until the mid 2000's by reading Dr. Breggin's books and finding sites similar to this one.  I had one successful full cleansing from medication in 2007 and began to recover from some of the iatrogenic damages.  I started to drink alcohol in 2008 to try and recover from PSSD and then about 6 months later, I lost my ability to sleep and was put into an inpatient psychiatric facility and redrugged.  The only med combination that has allowed me to sleep was 1250 mg of Depakote ER and 3 mg Klonopin.  However, my quality of life is terrible on these meds.  I want to try to get off everything now once again.  I have failed a couple of times trying to come off these meds recently but will try again once I can find a psychiatrist who understands withdrawal and can support me.

 

UPDATE:

 

I have not consumed any alcohol in over 10 years.  May 2019 - I started to reduce Anafranil very slowly so I can see a PSSD specialist.  I also plan on trying stem cell therapy to repair my iatrogenic brain damage.

 

Current meds:  1125 mg Depakote Sprinkles, 3 mg Klonopin

 

Current side effects:  PSSD, insomnia, odd sleep schedule, anhedonia, lack of motivation, cognitive issues, memory loss, hair loss, weight gain, dry mouth

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You didn't "fail anyone". 

 

You are trying to stay alive. I hope you get the sleep you so desperately need, and can find some stabilization. I hope to see you back here on a successful hold.

 

Best of Luck to you, Zant. I'll keep and hold you in my positive thoughts....

 

S

  • 64 years old. A/Ds over 20(?) years for depression, anxiety/social anxiety, last of which was Sertraline 100mg. Decided to wean off, the catalyst being the book "Moody *******" Julie Holland MD, hoping to improve my overall health (??) and dead libido (single again and re-entering the dreaded dating world) reduced to 50mg 8-6-15, 25mg 8-13-15, then stopped entirely on 8-21-16. Withdrawals with zaps, digestive issues, dizzy etc for a couple of months a week or two after stopping Now 3-24-16 still quite depressed with occasional irrational anger, and want to stay off, but wonder if it's worth it since I was at least not AS depressed (the social anxiety was never helped by the meds). Is the "cure" worse than continuing SSRIs?

  • Gender

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  • Administrator

Please be regular in your drug intake, and let us know how you're doing.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hey Zant - as desperate as it seems, rest is good.  Sleep is better, but rest may be good enough.

 

I meant to give you this one:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/53-sleep-problems-that-awful-withdrawal-insomnia/

 

Alto's concern is real - are you adjusting your depakote dose based on how you feel?  Why not pick a middle dose and stick to it.  You seemed to be doing well at 375 mg.  Consider staying there until you get your intake.  Who knows, that's a week away - you might not even need an intake by then, if you can stay at a stable dose.

 

It's moving your dose around that's causing instability.  Alto is right.  Pick a dose, stay there.

 

And let us know how it goes.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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  • 4 weeks later...

I just recently returned from an inpatient hospitalization.  I will have to attend a day hospital starting this week.  I have a lot of things to catch up on at home.  I will post more here but I just wanted to thank everyone for trying to help me.

I've been on dozens of psychiatric medications starting with being forced to take Prozac back as a minor in the mid 1990s.  All doctors would cold turkey me from medications.  I did not learn about withdrawal until the mid 2000's by reading Dr. Breggin's books and finding sites similar to this one.  I had one successful full cleansing from medication in 2007 and began to recover from some of the iatrogenic damages.  I started to drink alcohol in 2008 to try and recover from PSSD and then about 6 months later, I lost my ability to sleep and was put into an inpatient psychiatric facility and redrugged.  The only med combination that has allowed me to sleep was 1250 mg of Depakote ER and 3 mg Klonopin.  However, my quality of life is terrible on these meds.  I want to try to get off everything now once again.  I have failed a couple of times trying to come off these meds recently but will try again once I can find a psychiatrist who understands withdrawal and can support me.

 

UPDATE:

 

I have not consumed any alcohol in over 10 years.  May 2019 - I started to reduce Anafranil very slowly so I can see a PSSD specialist.  I also plan on trying stem cell therapy to repair my iatrogenic brain damage.

 

Current meds:  1125 mg Depakote Sprinkles, 3 mg Klonopin

 

Current side effects:  PSSD, insomnia, odd sleep schedule, anhedonia, lack of motivation, cognitive issues, memory loss, hair loss, weight gain, dry mouth

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