omgwtf: My update: some good news, taking things slowly

[omgwtf]

Hi,

 

About my experiences, well about 16 yrs ago my gp gave me zoloft because I had really bad fatigue and body pains.  I willingly tried it, because I had no idea of the difficulty getting off of course, until I tried a few months later and had problems, so I just stayed on because I didn't really know how to get off or if I should.  Then I moved a lot went to university and worked alternately in different places.  With all the stresses of life I decided just to stay on.  Finally about 5 yrs ago doctors gave me a hard time getting refills for effexor because I couldn't really explain why I was on it, so I went off and broke the pills apart myself.  Well I was alright until about 6 mo's later I started getting really wonky, kind of bipolarish, and then it transformed into major anxiety and panic attacks for which I really had to get back on the stuff.  I had never experienced any of those kind of symptoms before in my life.  I previously had no idea what anxiety or panic felt like.  The panic attacks came on in waves.  Terrifying experience to say the least.  So I really had no choice but to restart the drugs and of course to the docs and psychiatrist it was "relapse."

 

So I'm really glad to find this forum and know that maybe it's all withdrawal.  However, even if it is, I still don't know how I'll ever get off this stuff.  I'd like to know also, if this is belated withdrawal, how can I explain it to docs who don't know about it, are there any studies or anything at all to back me up besides anonymous people on the web?

[basildev]

Hi omgwtf - welcome to the forum!

 

What you're describing does sound like delayed withdrawal symptoms. But I'm a little confused - you mentioned Zoloft and Effexor - which drug did you discontinue? It's not uncommon for symptoms to appear many months after discontinuing a medication. Could you please tell us which medication you were taking, what dosage and what dosage you are currently taking?

 

I find it maddening that doctors can prescribe these drugs so easily and then refuse to give you more, therefore effectively forcing you into withdrawal. Unfortunately most healthcare 'professionals' will roll their eyes at you if you attempt to explain withdrawal syndrome.

 

I'm sure many knowledgeable people will chime in with links to concrete studies and the like.

 

But with some doctors it becomes a kind of ego battle - I'm right versus you're right etc....the good news is that you may not necessarily need your doctor's 'approval' to begin tapering.

 

Many of us on here do so without our doctor's support, quite simply because (sadly) there aren't enough healthcare professionals who really know much about this.

 

If you haven't already seen them, here are some useful links:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/300-important-topics-in-the-tapering-forum-and-faq/

 

Please add your medication history in your history so we can get a better idea as to how to help you. Here's a link on how to do this:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

[omgwtf]

Thank you so much for your reply. I did add the signature.  I will still be wanting some links to late withdrawal symptoms scientific papers if anyone has anything at all. 

I have a nine month old baby now.  I can't take anymore chances with withdrawing and risking anything, so I guess I'm here hoping for an extra safe way to do so in the future or if nothing else just understanding of those who experienced similar symptoms.  Hugs go out to all who have endured or are enduring the hellish ride that it is.  It's so bad.  There's so much I didn't know.  I still don't know what to believe.

[basildev]

Hi omgwtf,

 

I think it's a very sensible thing to let yourself stabilise, gather information and make a decision from a place of power.

 

Here is some information on how to taper off effexor, should you choose to do so in the future.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/272-tips-for-tapering-off-effexor-and-effexor-xr-venlafaxine/

[Rhiannon]

Unfortunately, scientific research on psych meds is paid for by the pharmaceutical industry, which has no interest in documenting withdrawal syndrome nor in helping people STOP taking their meds, so there's precious little to be found. You might take a look here:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/16-from-journals-and-scientific-sources/

 

I also highly recommend the book Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker, which is exhaustively researched and documented with references you can track down yourself.

 

I can tell you that due to Alto's high standards and hard work, the information on this forum, as far as AD withdrawal and how to taper, is as good as or better than anything you'll find anywhere else. 

 

You can taper off ADs if you want to, but it's necessary to do it very slowly and carefully, particularly since you have a history of bad withdrawal experiences in the past.  It can definitely be done successfully.

 

I find (after following hundreds of cases) that it's not at all unusual (in fact it's kind of typical) for people to have a "relapse" (even if they were put on the drugs for reasons other than depression) some months out from a cold turkey or rapid taper, three to six months being fairly typical.  

 

Usually people are put back on the medication, or onto a new one, and told they have a disease and need to take drugs for the rest of their lives. There's a lot more about this in the Whitaker book if you're interested.

[omgwtf]

My psychiatrist, newly acquired, tells me I need more drugs (ad's) which I don't agree with, and argues that I need to be on a higher dose to "heal" the depression before I would then think about getting off them later, otherwise it could get worse now.  I am afraid to take more, and thus be addicted to more.  This woman looks about 80 yrs old.  Anyways, I wonder what I can tell her as I believe a lot of my stuff was just withdrawal symptoms, as I didn't have those symptoms before taking the drug.  I just want to stay on the same amount for now.  It's confusing.  Where I live you have to wait maybe years before getting a psychiatrist, so I don't want her to kick me off her list, but yet I don't really trust her drugs anyways.

 

 

[compsports]

Hi Omgwtf,

 

Can you just politely thank her for her advice but that you would prefer to stay at your current dose?   Then when you're ready to taper, simply use the instructions in this forum to do so. You're on Effoxor, right?

 

I love these psychiatrists who think high doses of meds are the answer and uses scare tactics to try to achieve their goals. Sheesh.

 

Lots of luck.

 

CS

[omgwtf]

I switched to zoloft, I guess I need to change that.  She wants me to add remeron, which I see you were on.  I think it sounds like a car.  What was that like?  Wow you got off it all, did you have bad withdrawal problems?

[compsports]

Actually, Remeron was a good sleep aid but it caused all sorts of problems like weight gain.  I also feel it contributed to a mild hearing loss. And getting off of it, I had severe rebound insomnia.  I would definitely stay the heck away from it.

 

Yup, when you are ready, follow the instructions for tapering Zoloft.

[omgwtf]

Oh my, well I'll stay away from that I think, it seems that they cause withdrawal symptoms of whatever it is that they are treating, am I right?  So should I assume zoloft withdrawals could be ocd and depression...

[Altostrata]

Also see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4463-how-do-you-introduce-your-doctor-to-the-concept-of-withdrawal-syndrome/

[Finn]

I just stopped going   But of course, you don't want to be taken off the list, so don't follow my advice...

 

My doc was telling me I would definitely have a return of symptoms without medication. I don't know if it is a scare tactic or them simply giving us the best advice they can from their perspective.

[mammaP]

I think doctors truly believe it is a return of symptoms when stopping meds, whether it's a taper or cold turkey. 

My first psychiatrist was a lovely lady who messed me up big time with meds but she really seemed to want to help

alleviate the distress which I know now was caused by the very meds she was giving me! They have their "bible" 

on their desk, written by the pharmaceutical companies and believe all that is in it. 

 

I was told again and again by different ones that I would keep having relapses if I didn't take them and that I would

need them for the rest of my life, which is just what the drug companies want! 

[omgwtf]

I am just blown away at this whole thing, and us sitting around counting beads trying to get off this stuff.  Can someone link me to the instructions specifically to zoloft tapering?  I am very sensitive to this stuff, so I will do the slowest taper.  Blown away. 

[Jemima]

I am just blown away at this whole thing, and us sitting around counting beads trying to get off this stuff.  Can someone link me to the instructions specifically to zoloft tapering?  I am very sensitive to this stuff, so I will do the slowest taper.  Blown away. 

 

Tips for Tapering Zoloft

 

You might take some time to browse the Tapering section of the forum.  All of the SSRI antidepressants have more in common than not, and there's a wealth of information to be had in that section.

[omgwtf]

I have been reading more and more sections of this forum getting educated, but also getting more disturbed and frustrated with how this is all happening to us.

 

 

When I was in my latest depression/ anxiety, post baby, it started out as some depression and then became anxiety or panic attacks.  It came on in waves, so that during a day I might have three waves of panic/anxiety, and the rest of the time was windows I guess according to what I've read here.  Is that typical?  But in those windows I was feeling somewhat traumatized by the waves.  There were about two months of insomnia.  I was zombie like.  How can we even live on that little sleep?  I had been doing pretty well before that, went through loss of a beloved pet in a normal human way, without losing it too much.  The birth was really hard and I had to stay in bed and off my feet for two months.  No walks outside, couldn't care for baby without help, that all surely didn't help.  Though it didn't take anything difficult to go into withdrawals the first time off.

 

In my first withdrawals, a fewish years back, I had so many phases, and finally suffered so horribly of panic, went on the drug again.  I kept telling everyone (those who I confided in) that it was nothing like before I started taking the drug, all completely new symtoms.  I felt so lost without anyone to understand all this.

 

I wonder if most of you, as you are tapering, are going through many symptoms and suffering them, or are you tapering so slowly that you don't get them?  I have a lot of questions. 

[omgwtf]

By the way, if I could throw my arms around you and hug you passionately weeping thank yous for being here to offer guidance as no one else has for all these years...

[Meimeiquest]

Never had a baby, but I think the post-partum period is a really vulnerable time in a woman's life, especially if there are complications or inadequate support. My niece was in a college class where an old ob/gyn came one day as a guest psychology lecturer. He said in his experience, the greatest risk factor for post-partum psych problems is inadequate maternal support. I would really not label myself based on that, just take good care of yourself.

 

I lived in West Africa for a couple of years. As I understood it (and I wasn't there long enough to understand everything correctly), when a woman has a baby, she goes to her mother's house for 40 days. All she does is rest, receive ritual baths, eat special foods, nurse her baby, and receive guests who congratulate her. I'm sure that was your experience as well???

[omgwtf]

Meimei, I do suffer from inadequate support because my family is too far away, my fault for moving.  My spouse is supportive, but works a lot and for long hours.  The West Africans have it right in that respect for sure.  Fortunately he had paternity leave and stayed with me while I couldn't walk or stand much.  The post partum hormonal aspect of my year, and being stuck in bed, surely didn't help me to kick those antidepressants, and my crash was also during the time of year with the least sunlight.  All these factors added stress to my system.  Though I think that I also just had the protracted withdrawal.

I find it all so confusing.

I'm going to try to pm you now.

[omgwtf]

I have, fortunately, been stable for about a year and a half.  I had been on and off, mostly on, sertraline for about 15 years, and weaned probably too quickly off it for a pregnancy.  Post partum depression & anxiety or winter SAD blues, probably a combo, then kicked my ass hard and I nervously got back on some of the drug, worried about effects on my new baby through breastmilk.  I edged slowly upwards to 75 mg, which it took to get me out of the mess.  Then starting in the spring a year after, I weaned it down to 50mg, following the recommendations here and filling the prescriptions through a compounding pharmacy.  My winter has been fine on 50 this year, no need for more.  My daughter is 2 now, and the light of my life - a beautiful, bright, healthy girl.  I feel so lucky and blessed to have her now.  I found caring for a newborn so tough, where as after around a year I was more natural about it all. 

I often question whether I should ween further off the medication or leave well enough alone.  I mean it feels such a relief to be happy or at least not depressed on the worst of days, that I feel I'd be a damn fool to risk it again.  However, things have changed and will change.  For now I'm sitting pretty through the dark winter in my northern location on this 50 mg and don't want to disrupt my little family's hard won stability.

I wish everyone well, there is ALWAYS hope, I have learned that many times after there seemed to be none.  Motherhood is the hardest thing I did (well for a while) now I'm sailing, and the best as many have said.  I doubted myself and my decisions so much.  I ideally hadn't wanted children as I saw the world so negatively, yet my upbringing contradicted that to value children above all, and I couldn't escape that need.  I'm just thanking all the gods and lucky stars it worked out!  God help us all we are fighting such a hard battle.

People who read this who don't have children, please be kind to yourself, easy on yourself, it's such a hard decision in our position we never know what to do.

Thanks to all for informing us here and guiding - what a maze life is with depression.

[Petunia]

Hi omgwtf,

I found and merged your original introduction thread with this update, so that we have your whole history together in one place.  Its one intro thread per member, you can add onto this one as you wish.  Thank you for coming back with an update.

 

Petu.

[Rhiannon]

I can certainly understand, after everything you've been through in the past few years, not wanting to disrupt the stability you are enjoying now!

 

You might consider staying on the 50 mg through the winter, as you have already said you want to do, and then in the spring, when it sounds like you will have been on the 50 for a year, you could try a very small decrease, say to 49 or 48 mg, just to see how your body responds. I have found that as long as I taper very slowly and take long enough breaks in between reductions, that my symptoms stay quite minimal, and that seems to be the case for other people too.

 

If you taper slowly enough, you can set your goal to be getting down to the lowest dose that you can be stable on, which is never a bad idea with any medication.  And if you go slowly enough I don't think you will find it disruptive to your life. But the key to that, is slow!