alwayslookup: Thomas - Introduction

[Wildflower0214]

Hey there! Just dropping by for support!

 

[AliG]

Hi ALU,  I have just read a lot of your thread. I agree with Fresh - wow!  You have been through a lot and tried a lot of things.  I understand, I'm also looking for answers, and spend a fair bit of time researching.    Something I've found recently is a book by Dr terry Wahl, who had MS, and has had a considerable recovery. She found after her diagnosis, she was getting worse with drugs. She started researching and found a number of supplements that helped, but she was on so many and she was still only partially recovered. She did more digging , and came up with a list of foods that covered all the supplements she was taking.  Long story short - she made a recovery out of an inclined/ bed type of wheelchair and now lectures on recovery  from autoimmune disease and many other  lifestyle diseases.  I'm not an expert, but MS is to do with damaged neurons, etc, so to me it makes sense to me that what worked for her , could work for us. It sounds simplistic and I know it's not the whole answer, but I think she's on to something .  Instead of all the supplements , she turned to a nutrient dense diet  - I'm talking lots of green leafy veges . Her reasoning being that you're getting all the nutrients we know about , but also the ones we don't in a perfect proportion.    Let me know if you're interested.   Just a thought.    Stay well.

[alwayslookup]

Okay time for some update

 

Well since my last post things went even more crazy for me. Since I could not support it anymore i went again to a pdoc, hoping that we could find a pretty good solution which is much safer to ease my symptoms. The guy was not so knowladgeable about withdrawal and he was very ignorant in even listening to my story. He prescribed me a combo of tree drugs in pretty high doses. An anticonvulsant (Carbamazepine) a dopamine antagonist called Tiapridal (these two are used for alcohol withdrawal so I guess he thought that it could be used for benzo withdrawal too) I told him that that is not my only issue cause I am in prolonged AD withdrawal too but he ignored that saying those do not leave damage.Yeah I was very frustrated by his statement. He also prescribed me an atypical and quite unique AD called Tianeptine. (Stablon) Which is widely used outside of the US.

 

But after checking the stuff that he prescribed I was a bit surprised that these things might actually work cause they seemed somewhat safe at first. So I tried them all in micro doses. The first too seemed weird (Though I should have tried them more then once especially the anticonvulsant but i was too scared. Anyway after some reading I was surprised about all the stuff I rad about the Tianeptine I also read quite a lot of good reviews about it even from people in and after withdrawal. It seemed unique and just what I was looking for. The things that convinced me were that theoretically it works the opposite way as an SSRI because it is the only SSRE drug (selective serotonin re uptake ENHANCER). So after my and some other people s speculation that sounded like it might "reverse" the receptor downregulation caused by the SSRI's.

Some other promising stuff I read about it was that it stabilizes the glutaminergic system, protecting for toxic glutamate and all the nasty panic attacks. Then other stuff like it does not have as many side effects as other SSRI s like the sexual ones because it does not touch the HPA axis like SSRI s do. There are the things that raised my eyebrow.

 

Not to mention some good reviews from people who took it after or during withdrawal with success. Some even reportred that basically it does not even need a long taper and does not really have withdrawal symptoms (at normal doses of couse)

 

So I took it for 3 weeks. What it seemed to help were the panick attacks but after a while noticed that it has some nasty side effects too like even more insomnia, some crazy paradoxical reactions when I took it in the morning plus it was just something weird about it. So i decided to stop it with a few day taper cause i was thinking it would be enough. It was quite okay but in the last days I had two events when I was so ill that it was absoultely unbeluavable. I almost died like literally. So yesterday in desperation I took some Klonopin again and that literally saved my life. 

 

After documeting I realized what happened. I suspect that these crazy withdrawal seizures were cause because Tianeptine also has some mild and selective affinity to the opioid receptors that why it causes some euphoria (mostly in higher doses....that is why some people abuse it and even take houndreds of pills a day....i only took the recomended three btw). So yeah that was absolutely insane. LIKE NOTHING I EVER experienced in withdrawal. Now I understand why they say that withdrawal fro opiates is the worst of them all. I am so scared that it might happen again that I am considering to take a litt of an opiate receptor antagonist like LDN. Problem is that it is almost impossible to get my hands on it. Only if I could find a doc who even HEARD about it....

 

So I had no other decision but to reinstate my old benzo Klonopin. I think I should have done it sooner because it seems like I tolerate it well. It has been only 4 days or so with it. I try to remain at low doses and then maybe filtrate up as needed. Now I take 0.5mg in the morning then 0.25 in the afternoon and 0.25 before bed. With this combo I did manage to sleep very well (from around 12pm to 9am) which I consider a a crazy good thing. I think this wlll help my recovery.  

It seems that it cleared up the worst of my withdrawal symptoms, probably mostly those caused by the prolonged benzo withdrawal.

 

So I think the wisest thing now is to continue taking it as long as I stabilize or as long as needed and then taper it VERY slowly. But I need loads of wisdom and good advice with this) Oh and I'm also praying that I could find a good doc who can even help and not screw things up again......

 

If you have wise advice or encouragement then please....

[Altostrata]

We have never seen anyone "reverse" withdrawal syndrome with tianeptine. The other drugs are sedating, but can go paradoxical in sensitized nervous systems.

 

If we knew of a drug treatment for withdrawal syndrome, we would surely tell everyone. See One theory of antidepressant withdrawal syndrome

[alwayslookup]

I did rad that article many times already and I stull consider it to be the "best" explanation.

 

I do not know for sure that tianeptine caused those crazy symptoms but I would still want to avoid it. What I do know is that it destroyed my sleep even more. And that alone is a deal breaker now.

 

I also become more aware that eating less is preferable because my anxiety almost always goes up after eating. I think I also have IBS so I avoid the onion type stuff. I think I also became sensitive to gluten but I am still waiting for the results. Nevertheless until then I've gone gluten free as much as possible just to be sure.  

 

The thing is that now I sort of reinstated to lower dose of Klonopin (0.25 morning + 0.25 afternoon + 0.5 before sleep ) and it seems to help quite well. I can sleep 8-9 hours like a breeze. Though I am a bit unsure how and when to take it during the day (before a meal or after). Should I divide it even more like taking three times during the day and then before sleep? It is a good idea to go higher in dose if I feel like I need it?

 

I am very scared of this benzo experience but then again even more scared to stop it Hopefully I can find a knowledgeable doctor soon somewhere.

These questions are the ones that concern me the most now. 

 

(p.s. maybe I should had to try that anti-seizure pill Carbamezapine in a higher dose before I started Klonopin again. Not sure it is possible to try it know but I think it will be helpful when I will want to taper Klonopin in the future. It is widely used for alcohol withdrawal so it theoretically should work with benzo withdrawal too. We'll see. )

[Altostrata]

Please ask your questions about Klonopin here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/29-members-only-benzo-tapering-discussion/

[alwayslookup]

So my side thread with the klonopin experience continued here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8938-i-just-reinstated-klonopin-after-a-year-i-need-urgent-advice/

 

So I am at around day 10 of taking it. It did help me to sleep very well (0.5mg before sleep)

In the first few days I took also 0.25 in the morning and the afternoon. 

In the last few days I only took the 0.5 before bed and only around 0.12 during the day.

 

So though it seems to help and I tolerate it well but almost everyone here is just warning and scaring me that it is not worth it, it will possibly help only on a short term, I will develop tolerance. etc etc 

I GET IT. I can say that these warnings DO seem to be things that I have to take it into consideration. And in the last few days I was thinking about  it a lot and I came to the conclusion that I have to stop the benzo ASAP. But you know I am very scared. Because this "experiment" did save my life (trust me I am not exaggerating) But of course I do not want to risk to ruin my future recovery so that is why I want to stop.

 

I just waited until I got my hands on Lamictal so I can try that instead. Seems like a safer solution. I just pray that it will work.....because if not I do not know what I will do. (Maybe even take the risk of going back to low dose klonopin if things get extra bad again)

 

 

SO good news finally I could get Lamictal today. I could only get the 50mg tablets for now but it is okay since I will make liquid solution so I can start with very low amounts. (Probably will start below 5mg)

 

First of all I will say that I experiment AT MY OWN RISK but I would still need some advice and a little assistance. Mostly from you Alto, because you have the most experience with it. So PLEASE help me! At this point I have no other doctor to turn for assisting me with this.

 

First of all I probably read all the stuff you said about Lamictal and your experience with it.

I did rad mostly this several times:

 

 

About Lamictal, here's the problem: Not many doctors know how to use Lamictal and recognize when to increase and when to decrease dosage, plus how it's affecting the withdrawal symptoms. They also don't understand the hypersensitivity issues and insist on doses that are far too high to accomplish what we want -- to support the nervous system in healing instead of inducing yet another drug-dominated state. Some people report bad reactions to doses of Lamictal that are too high.

 

For some people with a different variety of withdrawal syndrome, taking lamotrigine may not be the right approach.

 

Here are a few tips about using Lamictal that I learned from my doctor. I'm not an expert and I don't know how this would be applied to any particular person:

 

- Dosages are individual, need to be started at very low amounts, and slowly titrated up.

 

- He starts everyone out at 2mg or less. Because I was so hypersensitive, he started me on .5mg. He likes to give a dosage a try for 4 days to see how it works, get beyond initial wooziness, etc.

 

- The trick is to find exactly the right "sweet spot" for your nervous system. At one time, I started at .5mg, went up to 2.5mg, backed down again to 1mg, eventually settling at 1.07mg. In a second phase, I titrated up to 5.4mg. (I am currently tapering off.) Now, someone else's optimal dose may be 24.3mg or 38.2mg or 10.1mg.

 

- For someone with withdrawal insomnia, the "sweet spot" is a dosage at which sleep is increasing towards normal and side effects are negligible.

 

- Lamictal does increase GABA somewhat while decreasing glutamatergic transmission. However, the GABA system needs glutamate to make GABA so too much Lamictal will have a paradoxical effect -- you don't want to go too high.

 

- Signs that you're taking too much Lamictal: Queasiness or headache (or both), sleeplessness, agitation.

 

- Initial side effects can be wooziness, grogginess, sleepiness, lack of energy.

 

- To firmly establish the newly revived healthy brain patterns, expect to stay on the Lamictal for about a year. He has had patients who went off the medication and were fine, they didn't need to take it anymore.

 

- In severe withdrawal insomnia, deep sleep is the first to go and the last to come back. It's important because human growth hormone is secreted in deep sleep and it is physically and mentally restorative. When deep sleep returns, emotional numbing will lift.

 

 

So here are my questions:

 

I do still take the low dose Klonopin. Yesterday took 0.5mg before sleep and today 0.125 (quarter of a 0.5 tablet)

 

So the Benzo is still in my system

 

Can I start taking the low dose Lamictal now? (I am thinking about starting at 2mg.) Is it better to take it before sleep or in the morning?

 

Should I have to first do a fast taper of the benzo? Or just do a "cold-switch" with Lamictal?

 

SO basically how should I do the transition? 

 

 

I need some advice ASAP.  

Without your advice It is much more likely that I will make big mistakes again.... And I do not want to arrive at the emergency room.....you know exactly why

 

HUGE THANKS and I LOVE YOU ALL!!!

[Altostrata]

We don't encourage people to take benzos, but many people do to get over the rough spots. You don't have to apologize, Thomas.

 

You don't have to stop the benzo to take lamotrigine.

 

I would start the lamotrigine in the early part of the day to see how it affects you, and somewhat less than 5mg since you can titrate the liquid. Remember it takes at least 4 days for a drug to fully register in your system.

[alwayslookup]

I see.

Afterall I came to the conclusion that it is not a good idea to stay on the benzo for long time so I am already tapering it after this short use. I hope that goes well without too much wd symptoms..... 

 

I did try 3mg Lamictal today morning. I did definitely felt it had a very good effect on me (the only noticeable side effect so far was a bit of sleepiness but thats cool) Actually I was very impressed by it's effect on me.

Though it's effect somewhat lessened after I had lunch. (That might be for several reasons but I hope that if it fully registers in my system it will last longer)

 

For some reason I already feel that I can and probably should go higher in dose. I was also thinking that I should split the dose in two: get some before sleep and the other part in the early part of the day.

What do you think?

[Altostrata]

It will build up over 4 days. I would give 3mg a week and see what happens.

[alwayslookup]

I have a question for you Alto.

 

My situation just got very complicated and I need a wise advice.

 

I am still on the benzo and probably I could not taper it as fast as I was hoping....I might need to follow a full taper.

 

So do you think it is wise to stay on this low dose of Lamictal during this time? At least technically will it be safe to take together with the benzo for the purpose that it might even help during tapering the benzo (which hopefully will be a short one and not a full taper)

 

Please try to give some advice ASAP

HUGE THANKS.

[Altostrata]

Thomas, if the lamotrigine is helping, I would stay on it.

 

Lamotrigine is not a benzo. It is not going to replace a benzo. You will need to be careful still with tapering the benzo.

 

Please try not to keep changing drugs frequently. It makes everything worse. See The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

[Petunia]

Hi Thomas,

I just read through your thread here and the one you have in the benzo section and I'm trying to find something helpful to write. Skyler has been very patient and helpful, trying to support you since you recently started taking klonopin. Its unfortunate you made the decision to start taking another drug, as you were advised earlier in your thread, this rarely helps long term and usually makes things worse. The klonopin needs to be added to your signature because anyone not familiar with your entire thread, who is reading a recent post here, wouldn't be aware that you only just started taking it.

 

Most people don't have the time to read through an entire thread to find out your whole history.

 

What you are doing now reminds me of myself about 3 years ago before I found this site. I was in protracted withdrawal, mostly from lexapro, but I had also taken a few other drugs which had probably added to my problem. I didn't know I was in withdrawal, and was trying to manage/medicate my severe symptoms, with various other drugs and all kinds of supplements which I read about on the internet. I didn't know anything about needing to keep my nervous system stable and was making my situation worse and worse all the time by constantly changing drugs and supplements, trying this and that so that I could feel better.

 

When I found this site, and learned what was going on, I stopped what I was doing, accepted the fact that I was in protracted withdrawal, realized there was no easy way to fix it and settled in for a long, uncomfortable ride.

 

It seems that when you found this site you had been in withdrawal from effexor/lexapro and a benzo for about 3 months... after a CT.  I think you may have caused further stress and destabilization by constantly taking various supplements, herbs and vitamins, trying to reduce symptoms. To recover from withdrawal, the nervous system needs stability more than anything else. Any herb, supplement or drug reinstatement needs to be added very carefully and slowly and at a low dose to begin with because a sensitized nervous system will often react in unexpected ways, becoming even more chaotic.

 

Perhaps it would help if you read back through the earlier comments you received on your thread... and the link Alto posted recently, I copied it again here:

 

Please try not to keep changing drugs frequently. It makes everything worse. See The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

 

I don't know if you should keep taking the Lamotrigine or not, but I do know you need to make a decision and stick with whatever decision you make. I also don't know how much Klonopin you should be taking, or even if you should be taking it at all, but you need to make a decision about that too and stick with it. As Skyler wrote in your benzo thread, she can't help you with the klonopin if you are messing around with other things which are further destabilizing you, its too confusing for everyone.

 

You need to make some decisions about what you are going to take and the dose and stick with it, no matter how your symptoms change from day to day, hour to hour. Accept that you are probably going to feel really, really bad at times, but it will pass. Use the non-drug techniques in the symptoms and self care section to get through these times. Eventually you will begin to stabilize and start to have longer periods of feeling a little better. But its going to take a while, so you need to be patient.

 

 Keep doing the same things every day and if your symptoms get worse for a few hours, do some meditation or breathing exercises or walk or whatever you can to calm yourself down, it will pass eventually.

 

If you have found some supplements which you feel are helping you, take them at the same time at the same dose every day and would you please also add these to your signature along with the klonopin.

 

Keep posting when you need some support to get you through the rough spots, most of us have experienced what you are going through and understand how bad it can get, but we get through it and eventually start feeling better. You will get through this too, hang in there. 

 

 

[alwayslookup]

Thanks Petunia that you read through all of my stuff and wrote this comprehensive comment....

 

I guess you are right about the things you wrote....

 

I also kind of decided that for now I will stop taking Lamictal mostly because of what you just said that it is too confusing for everyone to track my progress and help me....

 

Though I admit that this is kind of a heartbreak for me because I had high expectations for Lamictal and wanted to try it for so long....I Just could not get my hands on it...so then I went to that doc...tried that stuff he prescribed....which turned out bad and that is when I started the benzo again because I had two unimaginable seizures two times and I had no other choice trust me....(maybe go to the ER room where they would have given me the same stuff or something even worse)

 

Anyway for now I decided to stick with the Klonopin and try to find the right dosage etc. Hopefully our precious Skyler will continue to help me out with that....even if I tend to ask too much questions and can be a pain in the butt most of the time.....   I am trying to improve on this side but you know how hard can it be when your seizures get worse and worse and you just panic even more....trying to figure out what is causing it...what mistake I just made etc.

 

Anyway hopefully things get better soon

 

 

P.S. I am extremely grateful for all of you!!!

[Fresh]

Thomas , it's extremely unlikely that you have seizures (from your description).  

The more we catastrophize symptoms , the more scary they become.   When you have periods of severe anxiety and

fear , remind yourself that they always pass , whether you use benzos or not.

Because they always do . . . try it for yourself and you'll see.

[Altostrata]

Thomas, it's up to you, of course, but if I were you I would definitely NOT stop taking the Lamictal. It was helping your withdrawal symptoms.

 

Why is it you don't like Lamictal? It is not a particularly damaging drug, like the antipsychotics are.

[Skyler]

Alto, I hope it's okay for me to chime in here.  Far as I can tell, the picture given by always is a little confusing.  At the beginning of March, always indicated he was interested in taking Lamactil because he had read an account by Dr. Healy to the effect the doc had had some good results with Lamogtrigine.  Then the idea seemed to have been put on hold while he made arrangements to get a prescription for that drug.  In the interim, he went back on klonopin in the hopes it would help with some of his protracted WD issues, the most difficult of which seems to have been debilitating insomnia...  again, always said he would rather have been taking Lamactil.  By the time he got ahold of a Lamactil prescription, he had been on 2 mgs. of K for 10 days, and it appears he may need to taper down on that when he is ready.

 

Although I would not have advised this at the outset, it is possible reinstating klonopin was the right call.  At present he is trying to get stable on a dose that is lower than 2 mgs... current dose is 1.25 and he may need to go back to 1.5.. but he will hopefully give it a couple of days to see if that works before increasing the dose.  I was bowing out due to the confusion.. but he pleaded with me.. so I'm helping him to figure out at what dose he is most comfortable on the K.  I'm NOT thinking of tapering at this point,  though always is still hopeful he can 'slide off'.  I'm skeptical about this.

 

Your take on the Lamactil may well be more accurate than that of always himself (nothing new for you to be more correct!).  He is thinking he would not have taken the K if he took the Lamactil.  In any event, he is now stuck on the K again.  BUT he was looking around in March, as stated above, so he was having protracted WD Sx before starting back on the K, or taking lamotrigine.  Reluctantly.. he may need to be on both for a while.  But the way always give his history, it gets somewhat skewed by his latest symptomatology.. with the result we seem to be in something of a twaddle.

 

The bottom line:  always thinks that if he waits to get the Lamactil up to speed, he will then be stuck on K. because you have asked him not to taper the K until he works out how the Lamactil will effect him.  So he wants to stop taking the Lamactil to give himself a chance to get off the K.  (Problem is, he has now been on a  K (1.5 to 2 mgs) for close on 3 weeks).. .  In any case, he thinks he can get off the K. in the next week or few, so he's now saying the Lamictal is not really helping, I want to get off.  Two days ago he was in heaven because he thought Lamactil was the answer.

 

At this point I defer gladly to your expertise

 

edited

[Altostrata]

We don't encourage people to take benzos, but many people do to get over the rough spots. You don't have to apologize, Thomas.

 

You don't have to stop the benzo to take lamotrigine.

 

I would start the lamotrigine in the early part of the day to see how it affects you, and somewhat less than 5mg since you can titrate the liquid. Remember it takes at least 4 days for a drug to fully register in your system.

 

 

I see.

Afterall I came to the conclusion that it is not a good idea to stay on the benzo for long time so I am already tapering it after this short use. I hope that goes well without too much wd symptoms..... 

 

I did try 3mg Lamictal today morning. I did definitely felt it had a very good effect on me (the only noticeable side effect so far was a bit of sleepiness but thats cool) Actually I was very impressed by it's effect on me.

Though it's effect somewhat lessened after I had lunch. (That might be for several reasons but I hope that if it fully registers in my system it will last longer)

 

For some reason I already feel that I can and probably should go higher in dose. I was also thinking that I should split the dose in two: get some before sleep and the other part in the early part of the day.

What do you think?

 

 

It will build up over 4 days. I would give 3mg a week and see what happens.

 

 

Thomas, if the lamotrigine is helping, I would stay on it.

 

Lamotrigine is not a benzo. It is not going to replace a benzo. You will need to be careful still with tapering the benzo.

 

Please try not to keep changing drugs frequently. It makes everything worse. See The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

 

 

Thank you for those notes, Skyler.

 

Thomas, you have been taking Lamictal since May 7, is that correct? Initially it had a good effect. What kind of bad effect does it have now?

 

Why can you not keep the Lamictal dosage steady while you adjust the benzo dosage?

 

Maintaining the Lamictal dosage might not only reduce the antidepressant withdrawal symptoms slightly but help you through benzo reduction. Since you found something that works, I do not understand why you want to abandon it.

[Fresh]

I've been following always' benzo thread too.     My impression is that the decision to stop lamictal is because he wants to

continue to get advice twice a day from Skyler.    

I believe Skyler advised/intimated she would no longer be able to do this if he starts lamictal , and always is quite

dependant on this support at the moment.

[alwayslookup]

Uhh things escalated till the last time I visited my thread yesterday

 

Okay let's try to make some things more clear.

 

First of all I think it will be a good idea that I should not write my stuff on two threads. It might get confusing and hard to follow for all of you guys. I should write everything here. Is this okay with everyone (especially you Skyler) ?

 

I know things got very messed up and confusing with my situation. But I am EXTREMELY thankful that you guys are still with me and try to help in this mess.

 

Okay so in response to these three last posts:

I would also make some corrections if you don't mind

 

First of all to Skyler:

I did not wanted to try Lamictal mainly for the reason that I rad that Dr.Healy said some good things about it. The main thing that got me interested in it even before March was Alto's notes on it and the experience she had with it: that she was treated with a low dose of Lamictal for a year or so and  that it did help her. I actually think I searched all the stuff she said about this in the forum....

 

 (Just a side note: maybe we should not forget the thing that I also started to take that stupid Tianeptine that I was prescribed towards the end of March. I did take that in standard dose about three weeks and then because it was not particularly helpful (probably even made my sleep worse) I had to do that fast taper of it. Even though a lot of people report that this drug does not cause wd symptoms.... but  I guess in my case it may had kind of a  rebound effect or something like that for three days when I was EXTREMELY unwell....Especially the third day after which was the worst day of my life so far. I was so unwell that I was very close to killing myself. Then finally I had the inspired idea of taking some Klonopin. I did take 0.5mg and that kind of saved me....... Anyway this was just a side note we should not discuss this part further)

 

So this was on April 23. And after that of course I was scared to stop to take the benzo. I only took 1mg total a day for like a week (maybe 10 days) BUT not more.

And then I stared that TOO FAST taper trying to slide of the benzo... that of course initiated all the craziness of wd symptoms again (with all the insomnia and other stuff like feelings of hurting myself etc)

 

BTW in the meantime I also came to the conclusion that it is VERY UNLIKELY that I can slide of from this dose of K fast. And most probably we cant do it. I did try that last week and I do not want to go there again. It was too risky and scary

 

Then in response to you Alto: 

 

 

Thomas, you have been taking Lamictal since May 7, is that correct? Initially it had a good effect. What kind of bad effect does it have now?

 

 

 

Yes I have been taking Lamictal since May 7. It did seem to help even the first day. Then the next day when I took it after a sleepless night at 7am.....it did send me to sleep for another good two hours....though I was very tired when I woke up (possibly one of the initial side effects maybe)

 

Then I was thinking if it makes me sleepy then I should take it before sleep. So I did took it around 10pm and I could feel that it made me kind of pleasantly calm and sleepy somewhat drowsy. But it take me a very long time to have some sleep. Probably this happened because the benzo wd insomnia was just too strong to "compensate". This kind of effect happened in the following day too...though this time I was sleeping better. This was also because at this time we upped the before sleep Klonopin back to 0.5mg

 

So then I was thinking that I should try to take Lamictal during the day again so that way maybe I can see more clearly what effect has on me.

So monday afternoon when I came home from a busy trip to the city.....which made me get into that dreaded "hyper-alert" state....when I came home I took the 3mg Lamictal at around 7:30 pm

It did calmed me somewhat and made me a little sleepy...... the problem was that this effect lasted only for around 45 minutes maybe an hour.

 

So in conclusion IT SEEMS that it has some good effect on me. MOSTLY good rather than bad. BUT I just cant figure it out why is this good effect only for a short time...... maybe the dose is too small? maybe it needs more time to register in my system?

It might also be the case to tell exactly how it effects me at this point because I am in this benzo wd mess now trying to stabilize on a dose....etc

 

I did not take the Lamotrigine yesterday and today so far.....

And in the meantime we worked up the benzo to 1.25mg yesterday. I had a VERY good day. Today seems to be good so far too....

 

 

Why can you not keep the Lamictal dosage steady while you adjust the benzo dosage?

 

Maintaining the Lamictal dosage might not only reduce the antidepressant withdrawal symptoms slightly but help you through benzo reduction. Since you found something that works, I do not understand why you want to abandon it.

 

I was thinking the same thing. So what do you think guys: should I continue then taking it ???? (If yes then at what part of the day?)

 

And Fresh

 

 

I've been following always' benzo thread too.     My impression is that the decision to stop lamictal is because he wants to

continue to get advice twice a day from Skyler.    

I believe Skyler advised/intimated she would no longer be able to do this if he starts lamictal , and always is quite

dependant on this support at the moment.

 

You made a very accurate observation.

 

PLEASE try to understand my situation.

I was in a really dangerous place in these two weeks. Like never before in my life. In these times you can get very desperate....

And that is why I tended to bombard Skyler with all those frequent questions....

I totally understand that you lost your patience with me......especially when I think I am way too smart and understand what i going on.....or when my notes seem contradictory....or whatever...

 

I AM SORRY for all of this!!

 

I was very scared when you said that you cannot assist me further.....

I NEED ALL OF YOUR COLLECTIVE EXPERTISE

 

Without you guys I WILL NOT MAKE IT.

 

So PLEASE from the bottom of my heart: do not leave me now!

 

Love U all !!

[Altostrata]

Thomas, you have been taking Lamictal inconsistently. This is not the way to test a drug. You cannot blame occasional sleeplessness on Lamictal, it could be any number of things. You need to be more disciplined in this. See The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

 

It sounds to me like the Lamictal is beneficial.

 

Lamictal is not like a benzo, where you can take a pill and expect to sleep. It has a more subtle effect to calm your nervous system, gradually and over time.

 

If I were you, I'd take the 3mg every evening at the same time. Please do not experiment changing the dosage or timing of it while you're experimenting with reducing the benzo.

 

This is more than a little frustrating to me. You happened to find that a low dose of lamotrigine is helpful. If you read the Intro topics, you'll see many people visiting this site are looking for something to help their withdrawal syndrome. They would be very happy to find that 3mg lamotrigine reduces their symptoms even a little.

[Skyler]

First of all I think it will be a good idea that I should not write my stuff on two threads. It might get confusing and hard to follow for all of you guys. I should write everything here. Is this okay with everyone (especially you Skyler) ?

 

No, I do not think this is a good idea.  From time to time I'll check in on this thread, but otherwise will follow you in the benzo sub forum.  If you keep to reasonably consistent doses, and update your sig line when you make a change, this will do fine.

[alwayslookup]

Thanks Alto for all the good and convincing info on Lamictal....

 

I guess I was inconsistent and undisciplined with taking it.....but the last week was extremely crazy time for me...I could barely discipline myself at anything

 

Then things got even more confused with adjusting my benzo dosage etc...

 

So yeah I understand your frustration...sorry for that

 

But now that things settled a bit I will start taking the 3mg again as you suggested and see how this develops...if needed I will ask more advice

 

I will keep you updated

 

HUGE thanks

[Fresh]

Glad you're feeling less agitated Thomas , and I love that you sent Skyler virtual flowers   .

[alwayslookup]

Update

 

My condition did get more stable. I will review things and maybe suggest and ask what needs to be adjusted.

 

Okay so I do take that 3mg Lamictal every day at 9pm. It is subtle but I do think as Alto said, that this is how it should be and it effects are more visible over time...

 

I did slept quite well in these days. Woke up ever day at around 8-9 am quite rested. Then I do take a lil vit c and magnesium before I even get out of the bed where I still stay until like 10am. After that I get out of bed and have breakfast at only after at around 11am do I take my morning 0.6mg benzo.

 

I can say that I do feel quite good in these mornings even before I take the benzo. But then after I take it it does not kick in fast. It is kind of weird.

I feel the benzo effect accumulating as the hours pass and is gets a bit weird (especially that it makes me very FLAT and tired) and this peaks at around 5-6pm. At that time I do become VERY drowsy, weak, flat, and lethargic. (Though to be honest this is still better than the crazy anxiety and panic I had before.)

 

After a while this wears of and I do start to feel more alive. But still it is very weird. Is this like normal benzo side effect?  What do you think? 

The weird thing is that I do not get this drowsy in the evening before bed. When it would be more beneficial. That is why I moved to take the sleeptime benzo a bit sooner at 10pm hoping that it will kick in more until I go to bed shortly after 11pm.

 

But even like this when my late afternoon is more busy and I am more active I simply cannot fall asleep till like 2 am.

 

SO I was thinking maybe we should try some adjustments with the timing of the benzo and maybe with the supplements. (Skyler need you too at this point)

 

The supplements that I use now regularly are:

Magnesium (around 400mg throughout the day),

Vitamin C (around 500mg at every meal)

Fish oil (2-3 stronger capsules a day)

Melatonin: 1mg before sleep

 

When it comes to supplements I was pondering about these things:

 

To help with the daytime tiredness and numbness caused by the benzo maybe it would be helpful to take something that is energizing in a good way(and not too strong).

The thing that came to my mind was Royal Jelly that I took faithfully for months and I cannot remember why I stopped taking it. As I can remember it did help with energy and general well being.

Than maybe something like a little Chocolate.

Or a weak Ginger tea...

 

And I was also thinking maybe I should take 2mg of Melatonin and that would help me fall asleep faster.

I was also thinking of taking a little Glycine before sleep to lower my body temperature (I am quite hot before I manage to fall asleep). This did help me in the past.

Oh and I almost forget that I also got my hands on some Niacinamide(vit B3). I never tried it before though I should had to reading the good reviews on this forum. I did try like 100mg twice. Did not feel anything in particular, which is probably normal. But it might help in the long run. So what do you think should I take it in low amounts?

 

Do you think that these additional supplements will interact in a bad way with the benzo? 

 

Sorry if I am asking too much again and want to control everything but next week I need to travel back to university for some exams etc. This journey will be quite a challenge and I will have to be more active and all of it will bring some more stress (roommates etc)

 

So yeah I was thinking it would be good to try things out and stabilize as much as possible before I go.

 

So HUGE thanks for any good advice as always

[Fresh]

I wouldn't be trying anything new at the moment if I were you Thomas.  You may not react the way you'd like to.

 

A lot of people find b vitamins activating , which could throw out the stability you're moving towards.

I found 1.5mg melatonin extremely sedating throughout the following day , and that wouldn't help you at the moment at all.

 

You're doing really well , and now you need to practice patience.   

 

What other things are you doing to manage your anxiety (besides researching substances ,lol)?   

Do you do any relaxation/meditation?   Any exercise regime?   Focus on nutrition through natural food?

All these things help , and there's loads of information in Symptoms and Self care.

[JanCarol]

Hey Always - I can't fault your fortitude!  You keep searching, even when the symptoms are difficult for you!

 

But I agree with Fresh - maybe you could look for non-drug ways to control your mood and anxiety times.

 

Here's a whole bunch of them:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

and - for sleep (which, in the scheme of things is very important - but your sleep doesn't seem as awful as it could be):

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/604-important-topics-about-symptoms-including-sleep-problems

 

Keep up the good fight!  You've been doing all this while going to school - that alone could send the bravest of souls into deep water!