jim1340 - multiple withdrawl

[Jim1340]

Hi,

 

Only posting here because I have literally no one to talk to about this at home.

 

My history with this is quite long:

 

Lots of stuff from 14 to 29. Started with Seroxat at 14 which made me fairly ill, SH etc then clear for about five years. Started teaching, found it very hard, was on Citalopram, then prozac, have also been on several mood stabilisers which sucked (never for more than 2-3days). Put on pregabalin and effexor in 2009 at a dose of 400mg of effexor/3-600mg of pregabalin. Last year I was given codiene for an injury whilst racing and the doctor noticed an improvement in mood, as can be expected this ramped up to a hefty dose pretty quickly (2.4g/day). My wife recently noticed I had started slurring my speech. I went to another doctor who was pretty horrified at my situation and was advised to stop everything cold turkey, she actually said I might have done some long term damage. That was four weeks ago, I have got over the physical symptoms but can no longer cope with much in the way of exercise (pre withdrawal i would hold down a training schedule of 12h/week). I have no energy now and feel very low, suddenly loosing all my fitness has really upset me and I feel pretty strong anger at my gp. Its worth noting that from 2004-7 I took nothing and managed Uni just fine, infact I was happy and very successful.

 

Im currently thinking about going back on prozac or citalopram to try and stabalise but my freinds and family are very strongly against this, their attitude is that im just a bit grumpy after going through the withdrawl and they also treat me like some kind of hard drug addict. Not very helpful.

 

I have an appointment booked on weds and wanted to get some advice before getting more pills thrown at me.

 

I will get around to doing the signiture thing in a bit.

 

Thanks for a great site, I have been reading it most of the day.

[Frustrated]

I am fairly new to the site as well so I am not one to give advice.  I just wanted to welcome you.  You will get alot of useful advice from the moderators who are in a better position to help you.  They will be along at some point to help.  Again hello and welcome.

[mammaP]

Hi Jim, welcome to SA. I am quite shocked that a doctor took you off such a high dose of effexor cold turkey!

CT from all those drugs is shocking but effexor is notoriously bad to get off with excruciating withdrawal symptoms.

I can imagine that you were in quite a state with such a high dose plus the pregabalin and codeine too but must be

feeling terrible now they've all been stopped. 

 

Can you fill up your signature strip for us? Listing the drugs you were taking, the doses and when they started and

stopped, including the codeine. When we have that info we will be in a better position to offer advice.  

Normally we advise renstating a very low dose of effexor and maybe a very low dose of pregabalin may help too

but I am going to ask for another mod to take a look and see if they agree.

 

I want to reassure you that you are not a hopeless addict, not to effexor and pregabalin anyway. They make changes

in the brain and when they are yanked away the brain is struggling to get back to normal.  The process is very different

to drug addiction when a person craves the drug and needs more and more to get the same effect. No-one craves effexor!

People want to get off the psych drugs and hate taking them but need to stop the symptoms when the brain and nervous

system are destabilised. 

 

Here are some links for you to read.

About reinstating to stabilise http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3079-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-stop-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

What is withdrawal syndrome http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/603-what-is-withdrawal-syndrome/

 

How to fill out your signature. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

You are not alone in this, we are all in it together in various stages and we understand what you are going through.

[Jim1340]

Thanks for the advice. I have done the sig bit now. Just to clarify I have no cravings for the opiate drugs at all, infact no cravings for anything except food. I am mainly very tired and totaly pissed with not being able to ride at the moment. I am wondering if anyone else has had a similar issue with excersise ? Literally four weeks ago I was a top class rider doing 12 hours a week and now I can barley manage 30mins. I had no idea this would happen and I dont think my coach really grasps whats going on either, I was hoping to break some records next season but I seem to have broken myself.

 

Also I am having really bad reactions to alcohol, as in half a beer sends me to bed with a thumping migrane, more than this I begin to feel ok but suffer badly for it considering the tiny amounts.

 

I am also taking 2 htp patch things and L tyrosine alongside B6 tablets and multi vits if that helps?

[mammaP]

I have asked for more experienced admin to take a look at your thread Jim but they are very busy

with work and stuff so it might take a day or 2. I am sure Alto will be along to help at some point soon. 

I was a bit concerned that you may have developed a dependence on codeine because it is highly addictive

so it's good to see that you are not craving it. I am not surprised you are suffering and not able to do your

usual exercise , that comes along with withdrawal unfortunately.  Will you be able to get more of the drugs the

doctor stopped so that you can reinstate and start a slow taper? Any doctor can prescribe them it doesn't have

to be a psychiatrist. It was a locum who stopped them so your gp would be able to restart them. I am not

surprised he was shocked at the doses but to cut them all off cold turkey was quite dangerous! I put the drugs into the

interactions checker at drugs.com.

 

Not major interactions but put in the cocktail in March into the checker and it is shocking! http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=718-0,1656-0,1937-0,2221-0,2296-1523

 

The very high dose of effexor with tramadol would have put you in danger of serotonin syndrome which is very serious. 

I was taking 37.5 of effexor and was prescribed tramadol, I ended up bedridden with side effects and interactions. 

[Jim1340]

christ that explains a lot. I was struggling to breath and slipping in and out of consciousness on about three occassions. Im really reluctant to reinstate after all I have gone through in the last few weeks.

[Jim1340]

Feeling quite a bit better this evening compared to the last four days, I think I need to avoid alcohol.

[Rhiannon]

Hi--

 

You need to reinstate on the psych drugs, at a lower dose. Please believe us about this. What you're experiencing now is only the tip of the iceberg.

 

However, opiate withdrawal isn't actually nearly as bad and doesn't last as long as AD withdrawal, so you're probably in the clear on that one.

 

I have to run right now, don't have a lot of time. Please do read through the materials here and you'll understand, psych drug withdrawal is not something to experiment with, and it gets much worse before it gets better, especially with a long term history like yours and starting at such an early age.

 

Some people can come off one single med CT without much trouble, but they have usually only ever been on one med and not with such a long history. And they still sometimes get hit with delayed withdrawal effects three to six months out (very common with ADs).

 

I have never seen anyone with a history like yours (early onset, multiple meds and switches and changes over time)come off even one psych drug CT and be okay.  So please consider considering a lower-dose reinstatement, followed by a period of stabilization, followed by a more reasonable taper.

I think if your doc understands you are going to stay away from the opiates now and you do want to taper, she or he will cooperate. 

[Jim1340]

I will have to see what they say. They are in the 'no such thing as withdrawl' camp im afraid, its just a village surgery. They said it would take a couple of weeks to 'come round'.

[Jim1340]

Feeling lots better today but that might be 5 http patches who knows? Been to the gp who wanted to put me straight back on mega doses of Effexor. I finally left with a script for 10 mg Prozac. Any ideas on taking this? She wants me on it for six months minimum before I can taper? Weird it's the first time I have had a doctor younger than me. I'm getting old!

[mammaP]

Many people switch to prozac to taper from effexor but it is usually recommended to cross taper.

We would suggest reinstating effexor at a much lower dose, stabilising then doing a cross taper 

onto prozac, reducing the effexor while increasing the prozac. Did you have any effexor left? 

[Jim1340]

Nope. I'm still worried about the Prozac, I did use it for a while in the past with some success. I guess it's about making a quality of life decision, at the moment I really don't have any.

[Jim1340]

weird I feel good again today, I guess the 5 HTP stuff is kicking in. I will give it a while on that and see how I do. Managed a bit of training last night as well and hope to have another go tonight. Taking it day by day as im aware I might crash at any point. Im also leaving the alcohol well alone as even one glass seems to have a pretty ctastrophic effect on my head the following day.

[Rhiannon]

If you do decide to try the Prozac, I'd start at 5 mg instead of the full 10.

[Jim1340]

Not a bad idea, I seem to be quite alergic to the 5 htp so may well have to try something!

[Altostrata]

Welcome, jim.

 

As you're aware now, that doctor put you in jeopardy of long-term withdrawal from that cocktail of drugs.

 

It's impossible to sort out which drug might be best to reinstate. As long as you're feeling a bit better day by day, I would postpone reinstating anything for now.

 

What are your current symptoms? Do they follow any daily pattern?

[Jim1340]

Well I'm feeling fairly good now. I have been using these htp patches and am quite concerned that they may be too strong? I had been using one a day but now half a day. I might just stop as I don't want to get hooked on something else. Also I'm half way through the Whitaker book which is proving an enlightening read.

[Jim1340]

My symptoms have been a lack of energy and pretty terrible headaches. However this has levelled off since starting the htp patches.

[Altostrata]

That's good.

 

When you decide to reduce HTP, please taper it by cutting up the patch. We have people here with withdrawal syndrome from 5-HTP, too.

[Jim1340]

Just wanted to say I haven't used the patches for a while now and I was doing fine. I then went out for Christmas drinks and it turned into a very long night out. Its taken me about three days to get back to normal which is a bit of a shock. I think I need to let my brain recover and just be happy to be out socialising. Strange things are happening; I am playing the guitar for the first time in about seven years and am able to pick stuff up really quickly and I have also got back in contact with friends I haven't seen since college. On the drugs I never went out, couldn't play the guitar (no coordination) and was too afraid to even talk to my friends on skype! Im not sure if I should be really pissed off that I have lost seven years of my life to this or just happy that I stopped before I lost the whole thing.

[Jim1340]

well its now 8 days into feeling like crap and my head has started spinning again, it feels like when I first came off effexor I feel really bad as  tripped up a bit just before christmas and took a pill I shouldn't have at a party. It wasn't much but im feeling like it has totally screwed me over. Prior to this I was really happy. Or could this be a complete coincidence ? Also fell off my bike hard on xmas eve which has led to me being in a lot of pain ( I cant have any strong pain killers). 

[Altostrata]

Please see The Windows and Waves Pattern of Recovery

[Jim1340]

Had to do something as I was in danger of losing my job if I took more time off work. Went to the GP who said I had come off too quickly and wants me to stabilise on 20mg paroxetine/day for a few weeks before starting a slower taper. I feel like I have let myself down im on day three of paroxetine feeling spaced out and flat.

[Jim1340]

Starting to stabilise on the paroxitine now and hoping to stay here at 20 mg for a bit. Going to counselling on Saturday for the first time in a while so I hope that helps.

[Jim1340]

Well the paroxetine was a nightmare, I have been seriously tired/not concentrating on anything. I cannot seem to focus on the stuff. I have reduced down to quarter of a tablet 5mg and will do the same for a couple of days before stopping. It makes me feel terrible. 

[Jim1340]

Also caused grinding teeth and severe constipation for me. 

[Petunia]

Hi Jim,

I'm sorry the paroxetine didn't help, perhaps  a lower dose would have been better.  If you still wanted to try it, maybe you could stick with 5mg and see if you can stabilize on that, doctors usually prescribe a much too high dosage of these drugs.  Perhaps as little as 2 mg would help, but you would have to give it longer than a few days to allow yourself to stabilize.

 

Of course its completely your decision.  If you continue with your plan to stop taking it, it may take a while before your nervous system settles down after this change.

 

Reading back through your thread, it looks like you were feeling better in early December, but then had an increase in symptoms after some alcohol and 'a pill' at Christmas, you may have been recovering, but this caused a wave.

 

Please see The Windows and Waves Pattern of Recovery

 

Many people become very sensitive to drugs and supplements after they've experienced withdrawal symptoms for even a short time. Do not count on taking the big risks you used to take. Make changes slowly.
 
Introducing a drug or supplement or changing a dosage very gradually gives you the ability to sample how it might affect you before you go too far.
 
A big dose or big change probably will cause a worse bad reaction than a very small dose or change. You can injure your nervous system pretty badly with a big change -- it might take you months or years to feel better.

 

See:   The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

 

Please let us know what you decide to do and would you add the recent 5-HTP patches and paroxetine to your signature.  I hope you feel better soon.

[Altostrata]

Jim, you were on Effexor last, why won't the doctors prescribe Effexor for you?

[Canadiangirl]

I am so confused by thus whole thread. First they ct you off of high doses of meds then try to prescribe other ones to help you withdraw. Wouldn't it make sense to reinstate you on the ones you were on get stable then taper. I am not a doctor but it makes sense to me. Instead you are not only in withdrawal but you are going to get the start up effects of new ones. They are totally throwing ur brain into chaos more than it needs to be. Those kindof doctors make me sick to my stomach.