success ☼ ang: help and confidence needed

[Tilly]

Hi Ang,

 

I'm sorry to hear that you are struggling.

 

Try to eat regularly. If meals are difficult to prepare, snacking on vegetables, salads, porridge, soup and healthy snacks every 3 - 4 hours may help to regulate your blood sugar and make you feel a little better. Keep hydrated with lots of fluids - water is best but I also drink a lot of herbal teas. De hydration can cause us to experience lots of unpleasant side effects including dizziness, poor concentration and confusion.

 

Can you reduce your intake of wine to 1 glass per day if you cannot completely go without? As you probably know, alcohol is a depressant that can also increase anxiety (no judgement here, I assure you. Just trying to offer suggestions).

 

What are you doing to relax? I find listening to audio books or meditations can be soothing. I also massage my face and jaw .I clench my jaw a lot unconsciously and self massage relaxes my facial tension. I sew too, when I am able to which Is an enjoyable pastime and good distraction from withdrawal symptoms.

 

I hope that you are feeling better soon. Take care & be kind to yourself and your body.

 

Tilly x

[ang]

hello dear friends, following my  thread.

 

thankyou so much for following it, I do so much appreciate this friendship.

 

I have been a trial person for so many drugs....  I have begun to write and will post to my thread, as alto said that would be OK, sort of, she is a very busy lady.

 

btdt   First question, yes, my alcohol consumption has been 2-4 glasses all the time, for about 10 years......  (except when I got stable on zoloft last year, and I didn't bother to drink anything).  I never used to drink much before Effexor.  In hindsight I used to drink 8 cups of coffee in the mornings, on effexor, and wine in the afternoon (and didn't realise how weird that was).  I was more depressed on effexor, than I am now.  I think the effexor just made me have a totally changed, reckless arrogant personality (150mg)..at that dose it is an  SSRI  and SNRI...  2 drugs in one.  I recommend no one ever go over 75mg on effexor  (keep to the SSRI bit)... then hopefully you wont go reckless, like I did.  I never thought it strange I was become a feral, house a mess, couldnt even brush my teeth.....I had lost motivation, but thought I was motivate, but in all the wrong ways, dreams and ambitions that now I see as totally ridiculous... hence the loss of everything I had worked for and earned in 45 years, gone in 8..

 

I was very aware that yesterday and two days before that, I needed wine at 2.00pm, trying to space it out with water, just pure desperation, needed something to numb me a bit.  I never drink more than a bottle  750ml...( or on a few horrific days, maybe 1 litre)...which I regard as way too much.

 

I am actually too frightened NOT to have two glasses of wine.  It is all a part of my drug cocktail, alcohol is just another one of them.

 

And I am being totally, totally honest here.  I am well aware my brother died of alcoholism, so all my extended family blame everything on me drinking too much, I disagree, I blame all my stupid behaviour on effexor.  8 years of stupid brain dead behaviour, losing me a marriage, and a home.

 

Drug companies, and doctors too easily blame alcohol, what a con.  Like all the king hit attacks are blamed on alcohol, not drugs, weird that.  When I was young, a drunk couldn't hit a barn door, even if it was in front of him.  My liver tests while on effexor were bad, I have given up effexor two years ago, my liver is back to normal functioning.  My high blood pressure has miraculously disappeared.My ex psychiatrist was well aware how much I drank  (how many of us are that honest?).  Seems shameful to drink, but not shameful to be on drugs   (legal drugs)... weird that.  Also now I realise, my brother did not have any problems, till he went on high blood pressure medication.  What an insight this forum has been.

I believe the difference (after having my brother stay with me, and nearly died then) is an alcoholic lies about their drinking, a non alcoholic does not.  In the afternoons, after spending all day in bed, he would go out, while I was out, to dispose of his cans and vodka bottles)... I only realised this later.

 

btdt.  Yes I could eat on 2.4 mg, thought it was making me better, but only for one day, then the next day was the worst ever.

 

I now regard   WD  like giving birth (drug free)...sure the ladies can relate... like it is the fear the pain will get worse....but once we are at that point that nothing, ever could be so bad, we push, we change something, and we realise it cant get worse...  I hope so anyway.  Wasn't nice feeling suicidal yesterday, when I NEVER EVER been suicidal in my life... that thought will save me, I never ever been suicidal..

 

So, it was a good move not taking the 12.5mg zoloft this morning.  I wanted to get out of bed at 7.30, but didn't manage it till 9.30.  then I got on the computer and forced myself to play mahjong a silly facebook game.  I did that all day, but now and again actually did things.  I forced my brain to concentrate.  I could not have done that yesterday.  No amount of telling myself to do it, I just couldn't, so ignore people who tell you to push on regardless, it is just emotionally impossible while in WD.   

 

So this morning, I had the tummy troubles, 3 times to the loo (I expected it).  Was nice not to want to vomit on waking up.....  At 4.00pm when out shopping (havent done that for at least 10 days)... I felt like throwing up, not emotionally, just physical.

 

I hope I am not annoying the moderators, but if I feel so awful again, I will take 12.5 mg zoloft for a couple of days, then give it up, just to have a day or two... feeling as good as today.  I have beeen a guinea pig for these damn drugs so damn long.  Do not try this, until I have.

[ang]

Tilly, I used to knit and sew and I am an artist.  I have had no ambition to do any of these things while on AD..... I also used to exercise regularly.  Only now I have my brain back, do I realise what that AD have done to me.  Yes, I do hope to get out and about enough to buy some wool..  Then I will crochet or knit.  Thankyou so much, yes I will create again  (anything), as knitting, latch hook rugmaking, embroidery are so theraputic.  At the moment, just sitting and playing mind games on the computer, is wonderful, I have to focus my brain, and beat those neuroemotions, or whatever, that guilt, for everything I ever done wrong in my whole damn life.

 

I aim to stick to 2 glasses of wine, when stable.  Today has been so great, I didn't even start drinking my wine till 6.00pm.  I am just sticking to what I have done for 10 years, now.  I certainly do not recommend ANYONE take up drinking, just as I would never consider taking up smoking, or smoking dope, or anything  ......  I have never done those things, and I do not wish to introduce another drug, I know nothing about how it will affect me.

 

We are all individuals...  we all know ourselves, and no damn doctor in a 15 minute appointment, who does not even know us has the right to medicate us... but they do. Dr Booth.  One of only many discredited doctors  (ie psychiatrists).  Western Australia.

[ang]

thankyou cymbaltawithdrawal, thankyou for caring......  thankyou so much.

 

I would rather stick to my normal amount of daily alcohol, preferrably, of course after 6.00pm.  I am just trying to stick to the same everything, that I can.

 

Yes, I drank 1 litre last night, I think.... (never more)... and only wine... I try to stick to 2 glasses.... later the better, sometimes it is 4.00pm and 6.00 pm, sometimes 6.00pm, 8.00pm ....

 

2.00pm was a horrible time to damn well start... yesterday, and two days before that the same.

 

I did not take the 1/4 tablet zoloft, today and gosh my day has gone from 5% to 50%.. But damn I realise tomorrow could be a complete dive.  

 

Nice to feel almost normal for a day, has given me hope.

[ang]

I have a friend who was on an AD for a long time, since 2005     ..............   she tried to give up once, did a dive, went back on it.  At the moment she is six months out of giving it up completely.  I watch her progress, very closely, and have referred her to this website.  

 

She said she just got in a better place (emotionally wise), and started missing tablets, and before she knew it she had given them up... Yes she is a guinea pig, just like all of us.       I await her crash.  But if she doesn't crash, I will report it, I will give her another 12 months, then report.  Took me 6 months to crash, I think she is just another crash on the way.   

 

So my other advice if you giving up AD?  talk to someone who has given them up, over 2 years ago, or someone who is tapering... sooo easy to listen to someone... like myself 5 months ago, given them up easily... Nah, the crash hits...

[ang]

And trying to eat anything, I would have just vomited.  No appetite, worse than no appetite.  My saviour has been my addiction to seroquol.  I know it makes me sleep, I know it makes me hungry, before I crash, ie go to sleep.

 

A horrible realisation that I had become a zombie, that I eat and sleep, according to my medication.

 

It was so damn nice about 10 days ago, to actually eat lunch, and an evening meal... for a few days... before I took the seroquol to sleep.  I believe there is hope for me.  I am so grateful I can now judge what single drug, does what to me.  The polydrugging, is so, so damn horrific.

 

Taking the zoloft 1/4 tablet, has necessitated the increase of seroquol to 75mg from 50mg... I believe the zoloft stops me sleeping.

 

And the drug companies now?  they say stick to it for 6 weeks?  Bull, it it dont work after two-3 weeks it aint working.             I talk from experience, been put on this stuff, lots of stuff, from nothing, and it has always made me feel better after 10 days...

 

No I aint a drug company rep, nor a doctor...so dont believe anything I say.

 

All I say, is hang in there,  every good day is damn precious.

[ang]

I rang mental health yesterday, felt so desperate, told to ring Albany Hospital mental health today.  I got well enough to ring, spoke to a lovely fellow, he actually listened... in triage. I can not get home help, or any help, unless I go and see one of their psychiatrists  (did this before trying to get home, after my son and I became homeless)... well they never got us a house, but been through all this two years ago.

 

he promised things had changed since 19 years ago, when I went psycho on one damn gp prescribed valium, and ended up in a mental hospital, 450km away, without a newborn baby.  He listened when I said I was searching for my baby, in that hospital, and there was no baby, the rfds men lied, they left the baby behind.  So I found a psychiatrist, who didn't believe I had a baby, and put me on haloperidol...   damn it, he listened.       He said, oh no, now they dont lock you in.  Well why did they lock me in Christmas before last, when I took 1/4 of a valium  (I didnt know what cause my severe reaction 19 years previous).............well they locked me in, I was brave enough to demand Mental Health advocacy attend, and I the public health psych was there within four hours when I woke up, and seeing as there was stickers  ällergic to valium" all over my hospital records, he had to let me go,,,,, geez I was so, so damn lucky.

 

I have heard, ": rubbish, you can tolerate temazepam, but not valium?  Same class of drugs.."" Yeah,no but, yeah but.   Valium breaks down, tempazepam is one of its broken down components....  now they believe me, must do, I got let out, went home, and took a temazepam, which they were refusing me.....  I am still alive, and will never ever go to a hospital again.

 

This triage man listened, it was wonderful, why?  because I used to work in pathology at the hospital... he listened.  He was genuinely interested.  I knew my drugs.  But when he said ""oh gosh they dont lock anyone up anymore"" bull they still do.  May not be legal, but they do.  

 

One small step for a woman, one great step for mankind   :)

[ang]

just went on a forty minute walk, chatted to a lady I dont even know about my life history, god I feel like a ping pong ball,  or maybe a "puppet on a String".... all part of a bumpy ride to healing, I damn hope  

[ang]

Now it is quite funny.  Seriously, I cant stop sneezing, had eight sneezes in a row...  nose is running incredibly well.  Damn, like the WD that happened two months ago, on a much smaller scale.

 

Nice to laugh again, if I dont laugh again for a month, today has been very, very precious.

[btdt]

I found two things you did in fear...took zoloft when you felt fine and drink wine ... you said the choice to take the zoloft was a mistake I don't know about the wine but doing anything out of fear may be the wrong reason. 

 

I know I cannot drink anything my body will revolt.. as i am hypersensitive to things and my body sees booze the same way it does drugs and throws a fit. 

 

I am concerned about the skipping around in the dose as all the people here say pick a dose and stay there... 

"                                " not eating as for me food has been a big part in my healing as I can't take supplements I try to do it with food ... there is a lot on here about food it is important but I have been there too where I could not eat at those times i tried to choke down some real food broth... boiled veggies with dill and butter... something real.. with nutrients our bodies need it. 

 

A lot of other stuff you say I agree with.. if ever you want to talk about anything that has you freaked out you can use the crisis line just block your number.. I used them a lot when I needed to. 

I wish you peace

[btdt]

just went on a forty minute walk, chatted to a lady I dont even know about my life history, god I feel like a ping pong ball,  or maybe a "puppet on a String".... all part of a bumpy ride to healing, I damn hope  

 

When I was in trouble in pooped on on Effexor on I could not shut my mouth for one minute... I talked constantly even when I was getting on my own nerves I could not shut my mouth... I told my entire life story to anyone who would listen... I wonder now what drug interaction caused that as I think it likley was one .. an interaction maybe a ppi... as I had just started them... who knows... life is odd. 

[ang]

thanks btdt      I was feeling awful when I took the zoloft, but it made me even worse.  Last night I took 100mg Seroquol,  75  didnt get me to sleep, so after three hours I took another 25mg.  I dont mean to play around with doses, but I am sure the zoloft in my system has messed everything up.  Now i just still feel sleepy.  It is 10.00am here now.  

 

Yeah, I hate the fact I never shut up......  I used to be a very quiet cautious person. So I apologise for typing way too much on here!!!

 

My son has gone fishing to a lovely place, I am not well enough to go.  Hope it wont be too long till I can get out and about more, but mornings are usually horrible for me.

[btdt]

lol no need to say sorry to me for typing too much... carry on do what you need to ...

I put 40 some posts on here some days more I am guilty more than most...

 

I think your going by how you feel and dosing that way from what I hear we can't trust that or so it seems... 

healing the brain takes time as it is slow to improve itself so I hear anyway. 

peace

[btdt]

36 today I just checked so this will be 37 see what I mean ... 

sometimes this is the only place I feel real so I am here too much... maybe 

whatever I am not in an analyzing mood 

peace

[ang]

Only took 50mg of seroquol to get off to sleep last night.  Felt awful this morning, so I am trying St Johns Wort.  I am not on any sSRIS just the 50mg seroquol.  I assume the seroquol is just a sedative at that dose.  have read stuff that says St Johns Wort is just as good as a zoloft.  I cant tolerate zoloft, and so many of the others anymore.  I didnt like losing my brain on effexor, and losing my personality, I became nasty and evil on that stuff.  St Johns Wort has been used for thousands of years, so worth a try.  I only have 2700mg tablets, which are twice as strong as I would think I need, after researching.  Apparently 900 is about right. took the whole tablet anyway, will report back if it is doing anything, good or bad.

A friend takes St Johns wort after giving up SSRIs .....   she says it helps, and stopped her brain zaps.    but just like SSRIs need to cut them down slowly when you wanto give them up.  That is fine, I just want to be able to clean, cook, and look after my son.  I know I can not last staying the way I am at present. I remember gardening, and enjoying it, i remember swimming, and enjoying it.  I have no enjoyment of anything at present......

[btdt]

I am going to hope this works I have no experience with SJW none so have no comment ... I hope it works.

peace

[Tilly]

Tilly, I used to knit and sew and I am an artist.  I have had no ambition to do any of these things while on AD..... I also used to exercise regularly.  Only now I have my brain back, do I realise what that AD have done to me.  Yes, I do hope to get out and about enough to buy some wool..  Then I will crochet or knit.  Thankyou so much, yes I will create again  (anything), as knitting, latch hook rugmaking, embroidery are so theraputic.  At the moment, just sitting and playing mind games on the computer, is wonderful, I have to focus my brain, and beat those neuroemotions, or whatever, that guilt, for everything I ever done wrong in my whole damn life.

 

I aim to stick to 2 glasses of wine, when stable.  Today has been so great, I didn't even start drinking my wine till 6.00pm.  I am just sticking to what I have done for 10 years, now.  I certainly do not recommend ANYONE take up drinking, just as I would never consider taking up smoking, or smoking dope, or anything  ......  I have never done those things, and I do not wish to introduce another drug, I know nothing about how it will affect me.

 

We are all individuals...  we all know ourselves, and no damn doctor in a 15 minute appointment, who does not even know us has the right to medicate us... but they do. Dr Booth.  One of only many discredited doctors  (ie psychiatrists).  Western Australia.

Hi Ang,

 

I understand & empathise with the lack of motivation. While I have been withdrawing, I have had little motivation to sew or exercise, both things that I love. I managed a little sewing on Sunday and will do some tonight. If you could do some knitting or crochet when you're a little better I'm sure that would give you a boost.

 

I like getting dressed up, but if I manage blow drying my hair once a month it is a miracle! It takes too much effort right now. I still manage to look after my skin and paint my nails - silly little things to make me feel nice and not like I'm going completely to rack & ruin!   

 

Playing games is a good distraction, Ang. There is no need for you to feel guilty. Guilt never helped anyone did it? It just makes you feel sad and bad about yourself. Give guilt up along with the drugs and focus on your future. You sound very warm, creative & talented.

 

I always enjoy reading your posts, Ang. You have a lovely way with words.

 

I hope that your day is kind to you.

 

Tilly x

[btdt]

I use to do my nails to relax but a hypersensitivity to smells ( polish ect a no go for me...) has put an end to that so now I do a foot bath when I want to do something for myself and feel up to it.. in case your the same with smells .. maybe a foot bath Ang.. epson salts is what I use  

Try to eat something good for you and know a lot of other people did thing unlike themselves when on these drugs I think Effexor to be especially bad as that is the one that threw me under the bus to it is the drugs Ang know that own it.. I know we are still the ones that have to live with the after math but to begin with ...it was the drug

I know it now.. I hope will soon if you don't already

peace

[ang]

FIRST PSYCHIATRIST.....        WHAT DO YOU THINk?

[ang]

Thankyou btdt and everyone.   I feel the worse ever today.  I think the 2,700mg for two days of St Johns wort is way to high, may just try a third of a tablet tablet tomorrow, as I think that is the recommended dose....

try for two days, if still now good, may have to give up that experiment too.  The most I can do is sit and type, and not even enjoying that...  but gotta keep trying to do something.  Wish i could shower, or clean the house, just sit here crying.  

Waited till 4.00 to have a glass of wine, yeah not good, but can only cope with so much.  I dont enjoy the wine either, but at least it allows me that sedative effect.

 

 

The other change I did was going for only 25mg of seroquol, got me off to sleep, but I am sure I am suffering the effects of cutting that down too quickly.  However reinstating the zoloft made me unable to sleep.  I will hang on till Monday, hope I have a good day, or a good few hours soon.

 

Feel so sorry for everyone having to watch me like this, my poor son.

[ang]

I just figured if I needed to go on a different antidepressant, might as well try the St Johns Wort, as I am not currently on any SSRIs.  

 

So glad I was never on high dose of seroquol for long.  Heard of people being on like 1500 of the stuff?  omg...  

 

Anyway they all fry your brain.   Anyway, just feeling so ill today cant eat, or get motivated.  I must say, however, the morning horrible is blending into the whole day?  Is this good or bad?

Hugs fellow sufferers... feel your you all x

[ang]

Think Twice: How the Gut's "Second Brain" Influences Mood and Well-Being

The emerging and surprising view of how the enteric nervous system in our bellies goes far beyond just processing the food we eat

February 12, 2010 |By Adam Hadhazy

 

 

 

ISTOCKPHOTO/ERAXION

As Olympians go for the gold in Vancouver, eventhe steeliest are likely to experience that familiar feeling of "butterflies" in the stomach. Underlying this sensation is an often-overlooked network of neurons lining our guts that is so extensive some scientists have nicknamed it our "second brain".

 

A deeper understanding of this mass of neural tissue, filled with important neurotransmitters, is revealing that it does much more than merely handle digestion or inflict the occasional nervous pang. The little brain in our innards, in connection with the big one in our skulls, partly determines our mental state and plays key roles in certain diseases throughout the body.

 

Although its influence is far-reaching, the second brain is not the seat of any conscious thoughts or decision-making.

 

"The second brain doesn't help with the great thought processes…religion, philosophy and poetry is left to the brain in the head," says Michael Gershon, chairman of the Department of Anatomy and Cell Biology at New York–Presbyterian Hospital/Columbia University Medical Center, an expert in the nascent field of neurogastroenterology and author of the 1998 book The Second Brain(HarperCollins).

 

Technically known as the enteric nervous system, the second brain consists of sheaths of neurons embedded in the walls of the long tube of our gut, or alimentary canal, which measures about nine meters end to end from the esophagus to the anus. The second brain contains some 100 million neurons, more than in either the spinal cord or the peripheral nervous system, Gershon says.

 

This multitude of neurons in the enteric nervous system enables us to "feel" the inner world of our gut and its contents. Much of this neural firepower comes to bear in theelaborate daily grind of digestion. Breaking down food, absorbing nutrients, and expelling of waste requires chemical processing, mechanical mixing and rhythmic muscle contractions that move everything on down the line.

 

Thus equipped with its own reflexes and senses, the second brain can control gut behavior independently of the brain, Gershon says. We likely evolved this intricate web of nerves to perform digestion and excretion "on site," rather than remotely from our brains through the middleman of the spinal cord. "The brain in the head doesn't need to get its hands dirty with the messy business of digestion, which is delegated to the brain in the gut," Gershon says. He and other researchers explain, however, that the second brain's complexity likely cannot be interpreted through this process alone.

 

"The system is way too complicated to have evolved only to make sure things move out of your colon," says Emeran Mayer, professor of physiology, psychiatry and biobehavioral sciences at the David Geffen School of Medicine at the University of California, Los Angeles (U.C.L.A.). For example, scientists were shocked to learn that about 90 percent of the fibers in the primary visceral nerve, the vagus, carry information from the gut to the brain and not the other way around. "Some of that info is decidedly unpleasant," Gershon says.

 

The second brain informs our state of mind in other more obscure ways, as well. "A big part of our emotions are probably influenced by the nerves in our gut," Mayer says. Butterflies in the stomach—signaling in the gut as part of our physiological stress response, Gershon says—is but one example. Although gastrointestinal (GI) turmoil can sour one's moods, everyday emotional well-being may rely on messages from the brain below to the brain above. For example, electrical stimulation of the vagus nerve—a useful treatment for depression—may mimic these signals, Gershon says.

 

Given the two brains' commonalities, other depression treatments that target the mind can unintentionally impact the gut. The enteric nervous system uses more than 30 neurotransmitters, just like the brain, and in fact 95 percent of the body's serotonin is found in the bowels. Because antidepressant medications called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) increase serotonin levels, it's little wonder that meds meant to cause chemical changes in the mind often provoke GI issues as a side effect. Irritable bowel syndrome—which afflicts more than two million Americans—also arises in part from too much serotonin in our entrails, and could perhaps be regarded as a "mental illness" of the second brain.

 

Scientists are learning that the serotonin made by the enteric nervous system might also play a role in more surprising diseases: In a new Nature Medicine studypublished online February 7, a drug that inhibited the release of serotonin from the gut counteracted the bone-deteriorating disease osteoporosis in postmenopausal rodents. (Scientific American is part of Nature Publishing Group.) "It was totally unexpected that the gut would regulate bone mass to the extent that one could use this regulation to cure—at least in rodents—osteoporosis," says Gerard Karsenty, lead author of the study and chair of the Department of Genetics and Development at Columbia University Medical Center.

 

Serotonin seeping from the second brain might even play some part in autism, the developmental disorder often first noticed in early childhood. Gershon has discovered that the same genes involved in synapse formation between neurons in the brain are involved in the alimentary synapse formation. "If these genes are affected in autism," he says, "it could explain why so many kids with autism have GI motor abnormalities" in addition to elevated levels of gut-produced serotonin in their blood.

 

Down the road, the blossoming field of neurogastroenterology will likely offer some new insight into the workings of the second brain—and its impact on the body and mind. "We have never systematically looked at [the enteric nervous system] in relating lesions in it to diseases like they have for the" central nervous system, Gershon says. One day, perhaps there will be well-known connections between diseases and lesions in the gut's nervous system as some in the brain and spinal cord today indicatemultiple sclerosis.

 

Cutting-edge research is currently investigating how the second brain mediates the body's immune response; after all, at least 70 percent of our immune system is aimed at the gut to expel and kill foreign invaders.

 

U.C.L.A.'s Mayer is doing work on how the trillions of bacteria in the gut "communicate" with enteric nervous system cells (which they greatly outnumber). His work with the gut's nervous system has led him to think that in coming years psychiatry will need to expand to treat the second brain in addition to the one atop the shoulders.

 

So for those physically skilled and mentally strong enough to compete in the Olympic Games—as well as those watching at home—it may well behoove us all to pay more heed to our so-called "gut feelings" in the future.

 Rights & 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Ang, you do realize you are risking Serotonin Toxicity by taking such high doses of St John's wort along with the other drugs, don't you? That can be a very deadly combination. Especially when you add alcohol to the mix.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

From the drugs interaction checker:

 

Interactions between your selected drugs

quetiapine ↔ st. john's wort

Applies to: Seroquel (quetiapine), st. john's wort

Talk to your doctor before using QUEtiapine together with St. John's wort. Combining these medications may reduce the blood levels and effects of QUEtiapine. Contact your doctor if your symptoms worsen or your condition changes during treatment with these medications. Your doctor may be able to prescribe alternatives that do not interact, or you may need a dose adjustment or more frequent monitoring to safely use both medications. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

sertraline ↔ st. john's wort

Applies to: Zoloft (sertraline), st. john's wort

Talk to your doctor before using sertraline together with St. John's wort. Combining these medications can increase the risk of a rare but serious condition called the serotonin syndrome, which may include symptoms such as confusion, hallucination, seizure, extreme changes in blood pressure, increased heart rate, fever, excessive sweating, shivering or shaking, blurred vision, muscle spasm or stiffness, tremor, incoordination, stomach cramp, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Severe cases may result in coma and even death. You should contact your doctor immediately if you experience these symptoms while taking the medications. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

carbamazepine ↔ quetiapine

Applies to: Tegretol (carbamazepine), Seroquel (quetiapine)

Talk to your doctor before using QUEtiapine together with carBAMazepine. Combining these medications may reduce the blood levels and effects of QUEtiapine. Contact your doctor if your symptoms worsen or your condition changes during treatment with these medications. Your doctor may be able to prescribe alternatives that do not interact, or you may need a dose adjustment or more frequent monitoring to safely use both medications. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

ethanol ↔ st. john's wort

Applies to: Alcohol (contained in alcoholic beverages) (ethanol), st. john's wort

Using St. John's wort together with ethanol can increase nervous system side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with St. John's wort. Do not use more than the recommended dose of St. John's wort, and avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medication affects you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medication without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

carbamazepine ↔ sertraline

Applies to: Tegretol (carbamazepine), Zoloft (sertraline)

Using carBAMazepine together with sertraline may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience some impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

sertraline ↔ quetiapine

Applies to: Zoloft (sertraline), Seroquel (quetiapine)

Consumer information for this interaction is not currently available.

GENERALLY AVOID: There is some concern that quetiapine may have additive cardiovascular effects in combination with other drugs that are known to prolong the QT interval of the electrocardiogram. In clinical trials, quetiapine was not associated with a persistent increase in QT intervals, and there was no statistically significant difference between quetiapine and placebo in the proportions of patients experiencing potentially important changes in ECG parameters including QT, QTc, and PR intervals. However, QT prolongation and torsade de pointes have been reported during postmarketing use in cases of quetiapine overdose and in patients with risk factors such as underlying illness or concomitant use of drugs known to cause electrolyte imbalance or increase QT interval. In general, the risk of an individual agent or a combination of agents causing ventricular arrhythmia in association with QT prolongation is largely unpredictable but may be increased by certain underlying risk factors such as congenital long QT syndrome, cardiac disease, and electrolyte disturbances (e.g., hypokalemia, hypomagnesemia). In addition, the extent of drug-induced QT prolongation is dependent on the particular drug(s) involved and dosage(s) of the drug(s).

MANAGEMENT: Coadministration of quetiapine with other drugs that can prolong the QT interval should generally be avoided. Caution and clinical monitoring are recommended if concomitant use is required. Patients should be advised to seek prompt medical attention if they experience symptoms that could indicate the occurrence of torsade de pointes such as dizziness, lightheadedness, fainting, palpitation, irregular heart rhythm, shortness of breath, or syncope.

sertraline ↔ ethanol

Applies to: Zoloft (sertraline), Alcohol (contained in alcoholic beverages) (ethanol)

Using sertraline together with ethanol can increase nervous system side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with sertraline. Do not use more than the recommended dose of sertraline, and avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medication affects you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medication without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

carbamazepine ↔ ethanol

Applies to: Tegretol (carbamazepine), Alcohol (contained in alcoholic beverages) (ethanol)

Using carBAMazepine together with ethanol can increase nervous system side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with carBAMazepine. Do not use more than the recommended dose of carBAMazepine, and avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medication affects you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medication without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

carbamazepine ↔ st. john's wort

Applies to: Tegretol (carbamazepine), st. john's wort

Consumer information for this minor interaction is not currently available. Some minor drug interactions may not be clinically relevant in all patients. Minor drug interactions do not usually cause harm or require a change in therapy. However, your healthcare provider can determine if adjustments to your medications are needed.

For clinical details see professional interaction data.

ethanol ↔ quetiapine

Applies to: Alcohol (contained in alcoholic beverages) (ethanol), Seroquel (quetiapine)

Consumer information for this minor interaction is not currently available. Some minor drug interactions may not be clinically relevant in all patients. Minor drug interactions do not usually cause harm or require a change in therapy. However, your healthcare provider can determine if adjustments to your medications are needed.

For clinical details see professional interaction data.

[luv2knit]

ang, please do be careful with the combinations. Hope you feel better soon. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

[btdt]

I too am concerned drug interactions are dangerous and unpredictable as so many combinations have unknown and sometimes surprising unpredictable actions.  Please be careful Ang I know you say you started the SJW and quit the Zoloft but how long the metabolites stay in your body may depend on your liver which may have questionable functioning with all these different sources of meds ect..

 

Is there a chance you could see a doctor and at least get some blood work done to check on your health. 

If you are planning on taking different antidepressant maybe asking some advice from the mods to which one and take you history into account. I just can't say what would be good as I don't have a clue. I get not wanting to go back on more meds and wanting to try a supplement that a lot of folks say is less dangerous...please keep in mind that if your in withdrawal even supplements can have a bad reactions on you.  I so wish a doctor could happen along here with some decent answers. 

Which gives me an idea ... have you checked the list of recommended doctors here are SA to see if there is one in your area?  It maybe that there is one and if he is any good maybe there will be some good suggestions... again I would start with the mods ask for advice before you change anything else 

PLEASE 

I wish you peace

[ang]

(the doctor prescribed carbemazepine and seroquol together, quite high doses...great arent they?).  I am no longer on either of these meds.

 

I was on 50mg seroquol, but found I only needed 25 mg since taking the st johns wort.   Have taken 25 mg seroquol  for a few days, I may halve the tablet tonight.  I know I am just trusting how I feel.  

 

 

I have had serotonin syndrome before, years ago, but what would anyone expect when a doctor puts someone on double the recommended dose of dothiepin?  

 

And if I survivied 400mg carbemazepine and 400mg seroquol together? As prescribed, last year......  God I hate doctors and psychiatrists. 

 

 

St Johns wort may reduce the effects of quetiapine.............. that s fine, I found I only need 25 mg of the seroquol now,to sleep all night.  Slept well last night. (since taking st johns wort.)  Will halve the 25 mg tablet tonight.    I figure if the st johns wort reduces the effects of quetiapine, all it will do is stop the sedative effects, and I will have a sleepless night.

 

I am having a mildly better day today, still cant get out of the house, shower, brush my teeth or hair, or do much.

 

thankyou so much.     I feel I am trying the St Johns Wort in preference to starting a new psych medication. I am hoping it will not have the horrible side effects of the effexor, like losing my personailty. losing my home, losing my husband.    I can taper off it when I feel better.  Hell is not a nice place to have to live, at present.

 

The doc did an ecg, he must have checked it all out, it was clear apparently.  Gosh I must be tough.

 

As for the alcohol, I think they say dont drink, and if anything goes wrong with the medication cocktail, then they can blame something else.  

 

Weird I never drank anything before effexor.       

 

Thankyou all for caring.  

[ang]

Does anyone know what the recommended dose of St Johns Wort is?  My tablets say take two a day, but they are 2700mg,  most say take three a day, and they are 300mg.   Now that is confusing.

[ang]

Thanks NZ11.....yep I copied the lot...

 

Gee you lazy good for noth'n, Aussies bludgers copy everything from us kiwis ...let me think there was, vegemite, pavlova, our race horses, Fred Dag (John Clarke) wait on you stole him, along with Phar lap and Crowded House, 'pineapple lumps' ...maybe you haven't got your copiers onto those yet....oops! no  i am saying nothing, nothing at all about pineapple lumps ...no you wouldnt like them na. Just forget i even mentioned pineapple lumps ok.  The list just goes on an on ...Russell Crowe ..on second thoughts you can keep him on your side of the ditch.

 

Found this talk really helpful with withdrawal on really bad days. Its a highly reputable peer reviewed talk on how to cope with protracted wdl. You are welcome to copy that too its highly recommended.

 

ang replies, got no idea what pinaeapple lumps are, sounds like I am lucky, ingorance is bliss..

 

 

I think there was a saying about mimickery ...how did it go again!

 

Help yourself ! And pass it around ...the more people read this stuff the better imo.

[ang]

Its Australia Day today    .......  25 January is Australia day.....  wish I could be out and about celebrating!  Public holiday tomorrow, but doesnt mean much in WD....

 

feeling 10% better today than yesterday, hoping the St Johns wort is working.  I feel half alive.  Even managed to eat a whole banana and some mini tomatoes.  Thankyou fellow sufferer from somewhere in the world, yes laughter is the best medicine... time to watch "little britain"  again.  I recommend that series to anyone at all that has a bit of pom in them, like me.

[ang]

While ON     effexor, I became a compulsive "hoarder" buying everything I could, for ridiculous reasons.  Like buying windows and doors, before even getting a contract to build a house. Geting power put on, before I even had house plans?   Buying a huge dog, before I had fences, buying a miniature horse??????   Now I realise how irrational and compulsive this behaviour was.  

 

I bought leadlight windows, I even bought a toilet cistern, because it had a "wooden seat" for my dream home.... I dug up my front garden  ...   and it was previously a nice garden, to put in a shadehouse for my dreams of running some plant business.....  So I ended up with an unlevel space, a weird greenhouse, and a mountain of dirt.  I kept the dirt  why? Cause I could use it later????   OMG??

 

Why did I do this?

 

I truly wish i had not had all this crazy, non directed, stupid enthusiasm, for ridiculous ambitions.  Is that what happens when we have so much of the N thing, that we are so overenthusiastic, without our old regulatory brain?

 

Can anyone else relate?

 

Like I spent my whole time while on effexor, creating crazy problems for myself, instead of being my old rational self?  And blaming everyone else?  Weird.

[Tilly]

From the drugs interaction checker:

 

Interactions between your selected drugs

quetiapine ↔ st. john's wort

Applies to: Seroquel (quetiapine), st. john's wort

Talk to your doctor before using QUEtiapine together with St. John's wort. Combining these medications may reduce the blood levels and effects of QUEtiapine. Contact your doctor if your symptoms worsen or your condition changes during treatment with these medications. Your doctor may be able to prescribe alternatives that do not interact, or you may need a dose adjustment or more frequent monitoring to safely use both medications. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

sertraline ↔ st. john's wort

Applies to: Zoloft (sertraline), st. john's wort

Talk to your doctor before using sertraline together with St. John's wort. Combining these medications can increase the risk of a rare but serious condition called the serotonin syndrome, which may include symptoms such as confusion, hallucination, seizure, extreme changes in blood pressure, increased heart rate, fever, excessive sweating, shivering or shaking, blurred vision, muscle spasm or stiffness, tremor, incoordination, stomach cramp, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Severe cases may result in coma and even death. You should contact your doctor immediately if you experience these symptoms while taking the medications. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

carbamazepine ↔ quetiapine

Applies to: Tegretol (carbamazepine), Seroquel (quetiapine)

Talk to your doctor before using QUEtiapine together with carBAMazepine. Combining these medications may reduce the blood levels and effects of QUEtiapine. Contact your doctor if your symptoms worsen or your condition changes during treatment with these medications. Your doctor may be able to prescribe alternatives that do not interact, or you may need a dose adjustment or more frequent monitoring to safely use both medications. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

ethanol ↔ st. john's wort

Applies to: Alcohol (contained in alcoholic beverages) (ethanol), st. john's wort

Using St. John's wort together with ethanol can increase nervous system side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with St. John's wort. Do not use more than the recommended dose of St. John's wort, and avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medication affects you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medication without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

carbamazepine ↔ sertraline

Applies to: Tegretol (carbamazepine), Zoloft (sertraline)

Using carBAMazepine together with sertraline may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience some impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

sertraline ↔ quetiapine

Applies to: Zoloft (sertraline), Seroquel (quetiapine)

Consumer information for this interaction is not currently available.

GENERALLY AVOID: There is some concern that quetiapine may have additive cardiovascular effects in combination with other drugs that are known to prolong the QT interval of the electrocardiogram. In clinical trials, quetiapine was not associated with a persistent increase in QT intervals, and there was no statistically significant difference between quetiapine and placebo in the proportions of patients experiencing potentially important changes in ECG parameters including QT, QTc, and PR intervals. However, QT prolongation and torsade de pointes have been reported during postmarketing use in cases of quetiapine overdose and in patients with risk factors such as underlying illness or concomitant use of drugs known to cause electrolyte imbalance or increase QT interval. In general, the risk of an individual agent or a combination of agents causing ventricular arrhythmia in association with QT prolongation is largely unpredictable but may be increased by certain underlying risk factors such as congenital long QT syndrome, cardiac disease, and electrolyte disturbances (e.g., hypokalemia, hypomagnesemia). In addition, the extent of drug-induced QT prolongation is dependent on the particular drug(s) involved and dosage(s) of the drug(s).

 

MANAGEMENT: Coadministration of quetiapine with other drugs that can prolong the QT interval should generally be avoided. Caution and clinical monitoring are recommended if concomitant use is required. Patients should be advised to seek prompt medical attention if they experience symptoms that could indicate the occurrence of torsade de pointes such as dizziness, lightheadedness, fainting, palpitation, irregular heart rhythm, shortness of breath, or syncope.

sertraline ↔ ethanol

Applies to: Zoloft (sertraline), Alcohol (contained in alcoholic beverages) (ethanol)

Using sertraline together with ethanol can increase nervous system side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with sertraline. Do not use more than the recommended dose of sertraline, and avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medication affects you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medication without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

carbamazepine ↔ ethanol

Applies to: Tegretol (carbamazepine), Alcohol (contained in alcoholic beverages) (ethanol)

Using carBAMazepine together with ethanol can increase nervous system side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with carBAMazepine. Do not use more than the recommended dose of carBAMazepine, and avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medication affects you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medication without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

carbamazepine ↔ st. john's wort

Applies to: Tegretol (carbamazepine), st. john's wort

Consumer information for this minor interaction is not currently available. Some minor drug interactions may not be clinically relevant in all patients. Minor drug interactions do not usually cause harm or require a change in therapy. However, your healthcare provider can determine if adjustments to your medications are needed.

 

For clinical details see professional interaction data.

ethanol ↔ quetiapine

Applies to: Alcohol (contained in alcoholic beverages) (ethanol), Seroquel (quetiapine)

Consumer information for this minor interaction is not currently available. Some minor drug interactions may not be clinically relevant in all patients. Minor drug interactions do not usually cause harm or require a change in therapy. However, your healthcare provider can determine if adjustments to your medications are needed.

 

For clinical details see professional interaction data.

Ang,

 

Read CW's post again. You have changed up your medication a lot recently. There are a lot of negative interactions between St John's Wort, seroquel & alcohol that you may not feel immediately but may hit you at a later date. Please be careful in the interests of your health. 

 

Tilly x

[ang]

Yep taken half a seroquol, ie 12.5mg   and as usual  (previous to St Johns wort also), I now find my heart racing.   How can a sedative make your heart race?  

 

thankyou everyone for your concern.

 

 

the doctor put me previously on carbemazepine, and seroquol, high doseages.   that does concern me...... that was a year ago.  a doctor put me on double the recommended dose of dothiepin, nearly killed me.  Been put on drugs that made my tongue swell ups so much, I nearly choked... I been there, been thru hell and back.  They were all prescribed?

 

All I can say is read the side effects of these drugs, apparently zoloft has 214 side effects.  If I sleep OK, give up the seroquol tomorrow.

 

Then only one one drug.  One that apparently has been used for centruies.  

 

Wish me luck 

 

i am not a martyr, I can not survive feeling as bad as I did.

[btdt]

Just because you did not take zoloft today does not mean it is out of your system no matter what the net lists as metabolizing timelines ... we can't know how drugs will interact with other drugs including alcohol... 

The sweating could be sign you have a problem now... 

please be careful... 

[Tilly]

Just because you did not take zoloft today does not mean it is out of your system no matter what the net lists as metabolizing timelines ... we can't know how drugs will interact with other drugs including alcohol... 

The sweating could be sign you have a problem now... 

please be careful... 

This is true.

 

Also the amount of medication and multiple changes in medication taken with daily alcohol can compromise your liver's ability to metabolise these drugs. Please be careful and check in with your GP for bloodwork and check on your heart racing and any new symptoms which may be a consequence of your medication changes. You may be doing more harm than good, Ang, in spite of you feeling better in recent days.

 

Please take care. Take plenty of water and good nutrition to aid general well being. 

 

Tilly x

[ang]

On effexor my liver was not good, off effexor it is now fine.   Alcohol consumption has remained the same.  The psych actually admitted "they both put strain on the liver"... obviously the effexor more so.

thanks tilly and others.

Am feeling a little bit lower in mood today, but then I only took half the seroquol last night , decided to take the other half the table, and stick at the 25 mg per night for a bit longer.

 

I find it difficult to sip on water, but I know I need to try.