success ☼ ang: help and confidence needed

[ang]

so Shep, were you like me before you jumped off serouqel?   Just no motivation to do anything, and like a panic, at the thought of doing anything?              What else do you recall when you jumped at 6 mg?

[Shep]

I had just moved, so I was dealing with trying to find my way around a new neighborhood while having a lot of memory problems from coming off benzos and z-drugs the year before. 

 

But lack of motivation and panic are definitely signs that you may wish to taper more before jumping. Try to make your landing as gentle as possible. 

[ang]

I guess the word is dread........................     but It hasnt changed much for near 2 years now...........

 

 

I had two good weeks, when I was messing around attempting to reinstate about 18 months ago.         And maybe another 10 odd days here and there.

 

that is it.  I'm getting worn out.

 

My son might be moving away in about 4 months.  I have to be better a bit, as I will have to be totally looking after myself, shopping, everything.

[ang]

Well day 3 and a half./......

no tablets at all, as anticipated  (and loving it    )  had a good day today.  Went grocery shopping, cut my sons hair, had a shower, actually got dressed!!!   out of the dressing gown for a day !!!  and even put the groceries away  (nearly all).        I call it the honeymoon period, after a drop.         

 

It is kinda nice to have a breather.       Running on 30%.         Would be nice if it lasted, but I dont anticipate that.  Going on previous big drops,  it will last two days, then a slow slide down.   Thats OK,  it is nice to know that I aint just lazy, and my son keeps saying, ""get off your butt"" basically.        But I hope, as I explained today, it is NOT related to forcing myself, or being lazy.

 

I do understand, as he said, he started getting depressed, after he finished school, and didnt have any work, he stayed in his room, on the computer.   So glad he realises that is not healthy, now he has work, he is much happier.  I understand that sort of depression, they one when you CAN kick start out of it,  by  yourself.         I am grateful to this support group,  for being able to stop the guilts,  I CAN NOT force myself, that is just agony, when I feel bad.  I dont feel guilty about that now, but pressure from friends/family, who havent been through it, dont understand.    

 

 If I stayed like I am today, running on 30%, I could kick start my life,  but I will wait and see what tomorrow brings.   I will be celebrating 12 months from now,  because I truly think I will be well on my way to a life, and health by then.

 

The big drop,  from 6mg to 0 terrified me.   But that is healthy,  previously it has been when I was all confident, I am fine, and cut pills, that IS DANGEROUS.            

 

Hugs to everyone, hope some are having a good day, and all the others will have a good day soon.

[ang]

Oh best news is,  I am sleeping OK,   half of first night awake,   last two nights OK, waking early,  but OK.            If I dont sleep for a few days in a row, that is the only reason I would take maybe half a tablet.  Morning horrors, just the same, not worse, so that is good

 

Ordered some online vitamin D3/K     apparently need that with the GC Maf,   The GC Maf,  is the binding protein,  that helps the immunes system work,  ie make use of the vitamin D..........     So I need the vitamin D to help it along.           Still taking about 12 drops of the 60:40   cannabis oil.   

 

Dont know if those things are helping, but they arent doing any harm.............  so I will stick with that.

 

Have stopped all the St Johns Wort.  I tapered off them too.

 

And some wine tonight, havent had a drink for about 2 weeks,  probably a bad idea, but still in that habit, of buy wine as a treat when you feel good................ 

 

thank god, I dont drink like I used to on that effexor.          I attach the best, best video, of a woman, that did the zoloft ?? and the effexor thing.    She is 100% the same as me.     Everything she says, well, I could have said, but not as well as she speaks. 

 

[ang]

This is how, the psychiatric profession/  pharma prevent people commenting............ I am a pathologist, yet I cant comment on these posts?   now how easily educated the medical profession would be, if we could comment and give them the information, THEY ARE ASKING FOR!           So I just searched facebook for the names mentioned below, and I just reposted the whole article.

Commenting is limited to medical professionals. To comment please Log-in.  So only medical professionals, apparently can answer? The arrogance, the ridiculousness of this, is beyond comprehension.

 

3 comments

Newest | Oldest

Boba Orolicki Sep 8, 2015

 

 

A patient, female, 50 years old, diagnosed with depression, was given 300mg Venlafaxin every morning, with the instructions to take drugs exactly like this. She was on the treatment for 3 years. Side effects developed durting first months of treatment: diabetes 2, high blood pressure, gaining significant amount of weight, edmeas, lung and heart problems etc. Withdrawal, as suggested without any replacement therapy, resulted in severe symptoms of dizziness, falling, blood pressure crizis, extremely high blood glocose levels (>30mM), tremor, pain, kidney problems. In conclusion: psychiatrists have their own therapeutical apporach and do not always take a carefull care about patients, dedicating them less time than needed and performing less blood and other tests then they should, in order to determine and suggest the best possible therapy.

2Like

 

 

vince reeves Oct 16, 2014

 

 

Terrible

2Like

 

 

niamh mcginley May 28, 2013

 

 

Is there literature about the duration of the discontinuation syndrome if sudden withdrawal from venlafaxine is necessary?

[ang]

Venlafaxine and Serious Withdrawal Symptoms: Warning to Drivers           THE INTERESTING THING IN THIS, IS THAT A PERSON MANAGED TO SURVIVE THE EFFEXOR HORRORS, WITHDRAWAL, BY SWITCHING TO ZOLOFT.  That allowed me to survive,  I wasnt well,  but I survived, and after 18 months, felt a bit better, enough to taper the zoloft..............   All too quickly!             Effexor is deadly, go slow,  tapering off that,  I had no idea.  I tapered it over 2 months I think,  375 mg to zero,  so glad I survived!

Daniel M. Campagne, PhD
Disclosures
References
Venlafaxine is a widely used serotonin- and norepinephrine-reuptake inhibitor-type antidepressant that causes serious adverse effects in at least 5% of cases. Serious withdrawal symptoms may occur within hours of cessation or reduction of the usual dosage and may affect motor and coordination skills to such a degree that patients should be explicitly urged either to adhere to a strict medication routine or not to drive a car. Recent clinical evidence about withdrawal symptoms is presented that may indicate incidents in noradrenergic activity irrespective of dosage.

Keywords: Venlafaxine, withdrawal, discontinuance syndrome, serotonin, adrenaline, seizures, drivers.

Objective: To present clinical information and a brief review of severe venlafaxine withdrawal symptoms that may occur within hours after cessation and affect the ability to drive a motor vehicle or use heavy or dangerous machinery.

Method: Review of own and third-party clinical records. Search in PubMed and other databases with terms: venlafaxine, discontinuation, withdrawal, syndrome, serotonin, noradrenaline, noradrenergic, serotonergic, seizures, epilepsy.

Serotonin, Noradrenaline Withdrawal

Venlafaxine hydrochloride (Effexor, Dobupal) is a phenylethylamine-derivative antidepressant and anxiolytic agent that acts as a serotonin- and noradrenaline-reuptake inhibitor (SNRI). It is used primarily in major depressive disorder, with labeled uses including generalized anxiety disorder and social phobia. Nonlabeled uses include depressive symptom remission, obsessive-compulsive disorder, and chronic pain syndromes.

Most selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors (SSRI) and SSNRIs are reported to cause serious adverse effects in approximately 5% of patients, according to its manufacturer.[1] Venlafaxine is no exception. Among the adverse effects are a number of withdrawal symptoms that form "discontinuance syndromes," sometimes mistakenly identified with what Sternbach in 1991 proposed as the "serotonin syndrome".[2] Venlafaxine's half-life is only 4 hours. Its primary metabolite, O-desmethylvenlafaxine, has a half-life of 10 hours. In the past 10 years, a number of clinical reports of severe venlafaxine withdrawal symptoms have been published, and for the most part these effects are duly reflected in generally available information. Widely consulted drug information services, such as Medscape DrugInfo, American Hospital Formulary Service Drug Information, and First DataBank, list the following withdrawal symptoms as "serious": agitation, anorexia, anxiety, confusion, impaired coordination, diarrhea, dizziness, dry mouth, dysphoric mood, fasciculation, fatigue, headaches, hypomania, insomnia, nausea, nervousness, nightmares, sensory disturbances (including shock-like electrical sensations), somnolence, sweating, tremor, vertigo, and vomiting.

Patient hand-outs contain several useful warnings and physicians know that, because any psychoactive drug may impair judgment, thinking, or motor skills, patients should be cautioned about operating hazardous machinery, including automobiles, until they are reasonably certain that venlafaxine does not adversely affect their ability to engage in such activities. Venlafaxine is structurally similar to phencyclidine and thus should not be discontinued abruptly. If the drug has been administered for longer than 1 week, the dose should be tapered over 7 to 10 days to prevent a withdrawal syndrome (headache, nausea, dizziness, insomnia, and nervousness).[3]

However, little mention is found of the possibly severe effects of abrupt discontinuation or postponing ingestion of the daily dose for as little as 8 to 12 hours. Although a patient may have established that taking the drug does not noticeably affect the ability to drive a car or operate machinery, taking the drug in the evening if it is usually taken in the morning or forgetting to take the daily dose just once may induce sudden and severe disturbances in physical and mental condition that most definitely can impair normal functioning.

Recent Case Histories: Withdrawal Effects Are Not Dose-Dependent

Case 1: Standard Dose. Female, white, age 35, no other pathologies, diagnosed for major depressive disorder with anger attacks. Treated with extended-release venlafaxine 150 mg for 4 months with concurrent psychotherapy, with positive results: Beck's Depression Inventory score reduced from 38 to 14; functionality restored.

The patient ran out of medication on a Thursday and could not get in touch with her doctor until the next Monday. On Friday, only 12 hours after the usual time of taking the medication, she felt a noticeable change in mood, dizziness, and nausea. She experienced a sensation in her head as if electrical discharges "popped" and could not concentrate to the extent that she was unable to drive her car back from where she had gone. By Friday evening (18 hours after cessation), the "popping" in her head had become worse and she vomited after dinner. Depression symptoms reappeared acutely, and she could not stop crying. At first, she did not equate these symptoms to the missed dose of venlafaxine, but thought she might have contracted the flu. However, the symptoms continued and intensified over the weekend and only reduced when, on Monday, she started again on venlafaxine. She was inadvertently given the lower dose of 75 mg, which did not quite restore her mood to the previous level, although the "electrical popping" sensation in her head stopped and the nausea was reduced.

Case 2: High Dose. (Provided by J. Garcia Campayo, MD, PhD, Dept of Psychiatry, Miguel Servet Hospital, University of Zaragoza, Spain)

Female, white, age 43, first diagnosis of major depressive disorder of moderate intensity; maternal history of depressive disorder. Successfully treated with 225 mg of venlafaxine (75-75-75) for 12 months with no adverse effects. The patient decided she could do without the medication and stopped taking it abruptly. Withdrawal effects appeared within a day and included headaches, dizziness, and instability, with a sense of losing balance (although she did not actually fall down), sense of sparks and electrical discharges in her head, and intense anxiety. When treatment at the original level was reinstated and progressively reduced over a period of 2 weeks, the symptoms disappeared.

Case 3: Low Dose. (Provided by N. Mjellem, MD, PhD, CEO World Federation of Biological Psychiatry, Oslo, Norway)

Physician (psychiatrist), female, white, age 54, major depressive disorder (recurrent). Took 37.5 mg venlafaxine daily for 3 weeks. Experienced side effects while taking the low doses of the medication, such as aggressive and paranoid behavior after limited consumption of alcohol, frequent headaches, and tinnitus. The last symptom made her work situation difficult, so she tapered the medication at 18.75 mg over a 2-week period. Neurologic symptoms appeared during the tapering phase, including lasting severe dizziness and short, intense feelings of electrical currents in her head, causing disorientation.

The symptoms disappeared, only to reappear 2 weeks after termination was complete and persisted for some weeks more.

These cases illustrate 2 important aspects of venlafaxine medication that warrant specific warning to patient and physician:

Several of the documented withdrawal effects do not fit with a "serotonin-discontinuance syndrome," but point to a "noradrenaline-mediated withdrawal syndrome."
Venlafaxine withdrawal symptoms can be severe. Even a relatively short delay in taking the daily dose could severely impair motor skills.[4-8] At present this is insufficiently reflected in patient handouts and the physician may not sufficiently point out the need for a strict adherence to a fixed medication routine.
As regards 1: A Role for Noradrenaline

Sternbach's review and interpretation of the data concentrated on a toxic and potentially fatal condition that commonly results from the interaction between serotonergic agents and monoamine-oxidase inhibitors. Later reports indicate that co-administration of other psychotropic and nonpsychotropic agents that influence the serotoninergic system can cause the serotonin syndrome.[9] This interaction is hypothesized to hyperactivate central (1A) serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine [5-HT]) receptors, causing changes in mental status, restlessness, myoclonus, hyperreflexia, diaphoresis, shivering, and tremor. In the early stages, this toxic state can be resolved by discontinuing the serotonergic agent or through use of 5-HT receptor antagonists. Cyproheptadine and chlorpromazine have been suggested for more severe cases.[10] A recent animal study[11] found limited efficacy of pretreatment with 5-HT (2A) antagonists, although such therapy is considered clinically effective.[12] The former study found that noradrenaline levels increased along with increased serotonin, but to a significantly lower level in the animals pretreated with the 5-HT (2A) antagonists. The results of the study[11] may also suggest that increased noradrenaline levels contribute to the severity of the condition. However, during withdrawal of venlafaxine, both serotonin and noradrenaline levels decrease instead of increase, ruling out toxic levels of serotonin and noradrenaline as a probable cause of the withdrawal symptoms, that can be hypothesized to result from a (too) rapid deprivation of neurotransmitter levels. Which neurotransmitters apart from 5-HT (2A) antagonists are involved may be deduced from some of the less often-reported withdrawal symptoms, such as the "electrical discharges in the head." These symptoms are similar to preseizure symptoms in epilepsy, and there is now evidence of the relevant role of the noradrenergic system in modulating seizures,[13] providing further evidence that noradrenergic and/or serotonergic deficits may contribute to epilepsy and depression.[14] Although this does not necessarily establish a link between epileptiform manifestations and venlafaxine withdrawal, it does suggest that some of the venlafaxine-withdrawal symptoms are more likely to be caused by a lack of noradrenergic than of serotonergic action, contrary to the commonly accepted theory.[15] A hypothesis worth investigating is whether the "electrical discharges in the head" are the result of a "bursting" activity of noradrenergic receptors in the absence of a hitherto customary neurotransmitter presence. Among the few case reports available, a recent report again attributes this symptom to a serotonin effect, possibly confounding the withdrawal effects of venlafaxine with a serotonin syndrome.[5] In this case, the authors refer to the "buzz" noted upon withdrawal in approximately 5% of patients treated with SSRIs and hypothesize that the sensations may be a form of paresthesias. However, the clinical evidence they provide gives contradictory information. Their patient no.1 was taken off venlafaxine but given fluoxetine, whereupon the brain shocks started, so the symptoms appeared to be caused either by venlafaxine withdrawal or by an unlikely serotonin syndrome. Their patient no.2 was gradually tapered from venlafaxine but given citalopram and also experienced the shocklike sensations. Finally, they cite the case of a 72-year-old woman in whom venlafaxine withdrawal symptoms were readily relieved by sertraline, but not by maprotiline, and 3 other cases that were "treated successfully by fluoxetine." The authors rightfully indicated that "an unexplained aspect of our two patients is that the addition of an SSRI, which theoretically would result in an increase of serotonin, did not alleviate withdrawal symptoms..."

The 3 case reports presented here suggest that this specific venlafaxine withdrawal symptom appears irrespective of dosage. Although venlafaxine in the lower daily dose range (18.75 to 75 mg) blocks reuptake of serotonin more than reuptake of noradrenaline, all SSRIs and SSNRIs affect both serotonin and noradrenaline levels, depending on their specificity. The particular withdrawal effect discussed here compares more closely to preseizure signs than to paresthesias, and thus could be attributed to noradrenergic more than serotoninergic action.

As regards 2: The Need for a Warning to Drivers

As discussed, withdrawal symptoms occur in patients who have received both low and high doses of venlafaxine and result in a discontinuance syndrome with several manifestations, especially severe dizziness and disorientation, that are incompatible with driving a car or using heavy or dangerous machinery. Although standard warnings are given that taking the drug may affect those abilities, and patients are also generally advised not to stop the medication abruptly, severe withdrawal symptoms, such as confusion, impaired coordination, sensory disturbances, vertigo, delirium, strokelike symptoms, and depersonalization, may occur only hours after reduction or cessation and should warrant a specific "warning to drivers." Whenever venlafaxine is not taken at the usual time or in the usual quantity, special caution is warranted. Even when the dosage is being tapered, the physician should instruct the patient to beware of these symptoms, because the recommended tapering period of 2 weeks is not necessarily sufficient. Cases have been documented in which even tapering over a period of 3 months was insufficient.[16]

[Shep]

Congratulations on getting off Seroquel, ang! That's great news.

 

Please be careful with the wine or any alcohol, though. Alcohol does affect the central nervous system. Due to the number of meds you've come off, I would be as gentle as possible for awhile and let your system get used to the latest change, or rather, the LAST change.  If you do start having problems, you won't know if it was from the alcohol or from your Seroquel jump, so best to keep it as simple and clean as possible. 

 

Please keep posting updates and let us know how you do. I'm hoping you have a gentle landing into the world of being medication free. 

[AliG]

Ang. I hope it goes well. I would have liked to see you taper off more slowly , but I wish you the best .    Let us know how it goes. 

[ang]

Thanks Shep and AliG.            The wine was not a good idea, but ah well.        I did not sleep very well last night.    

 

As for the taper,  if I could have got stable (by that I mean reasonably happy).... anywhere along the way, the last 2 years,  oh, gosh I would have stayed on whatever.  But I never did, I got stable enough to manage the horror of it, I guess.  That was called acceptance.

 

How are you AliG?             

[NoMoreADs]

Gave up antidepressants 4 months ago, using what I thought was a long and careful descent.  (I cut down over about three months I think, apologies still a bit muddled).

After reading your comments I now realise that it can take years, not months to reduce.  

 

I have no reason to be depressed  (apart from the loss of everything financial in my life, and guilt feelings, over that).  And realisations that my whole personality has been changed by these drugs for years now.   Must mean I am finally getting my brain back, which is promising.

 

I was not prepared for effects of the drugs and withdrawals to hit four months after stopping them.  I now anticipate a year to get better... But others say it can take a lot longer.

 

Can anyone advise me?  Will my symptoms get worse before they get better?  

 

I do feel it is now too late to start taking them again, as I know that starting over again can be horrific, been there, done that. Dont want to go down that path again.

 

I kept taking a small amount of seroquol, to help with the panic attacks.  I find now, even a tiny amount makes me terribly sleepy. Am taking St Johns Wort, Vit B, fish oil capsules, zinc.  And trying to eat eggs (for whatever is found in the egg yolk).  

 

I now think I need to give away the seroquol, as I have been taking small doses, very erratically, and I have no way of knowing if this is making things worse.  Seroquol always seemed fine for me, but now I wonder.

 

Hi, it's my understanding that seroquel works on similar neurotransmitters to standard antidepressants even though it's an antipsychotic and induces extreme drowsiness. If it were me, I'd stay away from anything that acts on any mind altering receptors because they each have downstream effects on one another even if they don't act on the same exact neurotransmitters. I'm basing this conclusion on the way that recovery from addictive substances like cocaine and alcohol works. I'm by no means an expert, but this seems to make sense to me

[ang]

Feeling pretty awful, this morning, lets hope the day improves....   7 days on 0 mg..........

 

Headache, and just feel yuck, physically and mentally.              

[scallywag]

It can take a few days for the CNS to settle after a destabilizer like wine or other alcohol. Hope you're feeling better soon.

[ang]

Thanks Scalywag,  2% improvement today...............

 

Oh lets hope it is just an improvement from here,  I have to keep in mind, I made it to zero,  just gotta survive this, then really allow my brain to recover.  I want a life back, I want to enjoy the sunshine, have feelings again.

[ang]

The weird thing?  Yeah I had that wine, but I have no desire to have anymore,  seems the taste for wine, has gone along with the meds.................          

[AliG]

Thanks Shep and AliG.            The wine was not a good idea, but ah well.        I did not sleep very well last night.    

 

As for the taper,  if I could have got stable (by that I mean reasonably happy).... anywhere along the way, the last 2 years,  oh, gosh I would have stayed on whatever.  But I never did, I got stable enough to manage the horror of it, I guess.  That was called acceptance.

 

How are you AliG?             

 

I'm great , Ang.  Like you - angry , but healing and feeling normal again.    I'm sure you will too. Give it time and some patience.

Hugs.

Ali

[ang]

Oh what I would give to feel normal again.     I am so happy you are doing well AliG.

[ang]

I had to reinstate, the intrusive thoughts upon waking, terrible.   I will just have to try chopping 6mg capsule in half,  and try and just take half in the mornings.  Oh, gosh getting of this stuff and trying to remain sane,  

this is hard.

[Shep]

Hi, Ang. What symptoms did you have that made you reinstate? You may want to do a very slow micro taper off that last bit. Your CNS has been through a lot with lots of drugs, so perhaps the gentle landing of a micro taper is needed.

 

You may find these links helpful:

 

Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases

 

Tapering to zero -- when do you just drop off? 

 

Experiences after tapering to zero 

 

Please let us know how you're doing as you continue the reinstatement. I found in my own Seroquel taper that the last little bit also carries a psychological compenent to it as it marks a new part of the journey. For those of us who were drugged for decades, it's new territory to venture out into. And that can be a bit scary at first.

 

But you've done the hard work to get this far, so keep that in mind, too. You'll be okay off drugs and you'll be on the road to recovery. 

[ang]

Hi Shep            .............     I am pretty well an absolute mess, but that hasnt changed much,   I still hope I will get over this  ""illness""  and get a life again.

 

I reinstated because I just hated the morning horrors, like absolute torture, like waking up in hell itself.

 

My daughter visited for the weekend, saw the new baby, nice, but also stressful.   Brings back thoughts of what my life would have been like if I hadnt gone on the damn effexor, would still be married, probably, that nice home I used to have, that nice life I used to have.

 

Also the pressure, she is so happy, fit, active, and the mum,    ..........   just get up go for a walk, etc, etc,  I just cant seem to do it,  I hope some sort of motivation, enjoyment, comes back

 

Grandkids all so lovely, real nice family feeling for the weekend.

 

So I am just over it,  I am going back to the zero of seroquel.    I either survive, or I dont.   I want to be over the whole horror of the last 10 years of my life,  oh gosh the guilts, over how stupid, I was on those pills, but damn didnt know that at the time.   

 

So my job for today, is to pay three bills on line.           I find that even too difficult to do.   This is just ridiculous!!!

[manymoretodays]

Hi Ang, 

 

Rest, food, at least one interaction with another real life human each day.  You can skip the walk and dance madly around your kitchen or something.......just as good sometimes.   I am rooting for you!!! 

 

Been there, done that.........kind of where you are now........you have sure had a lot of switch a roos and additions/subtractions lately........as far as what you are doing. Try and skip the past tripping...........it is of no value what so ever right now.  I will let you know when I have the Emu farm up and running.......LOL..........however, sometimes I do wonder where I will end up.  For now..........now is good enough for me.

 

El yucko Monday here in Paradise........ and then............these Presidential debates to watch(or not watch) now.  El yucko just because I am trying maybe a bit too hard to get out there.........and had a pretty unrestful night last night.  2 stretches of 3 hour sleeps..........better than nothing though.  Alas though, been to the big City for a committee, been to another mtg., trash out, laundry up to date and dishes and groceries and all that jazz.  Drove the freeway.  Best though........was this weird bird song I heard when I got in this evening.........and talking to this clerk at the convenience store..........totally inspiring talk with a fellow who has autism..........man oh man.......the wisdom he shared.  I will be stopping there more often.   I thanked him..........teared up..........and then he thanked me too.    He was most comfortable talking in this Irish lilt he said after I asked where he was from............then he disclosed his autism and a bit more just pearls of coping and coping well. 

 

Just another day in the W/D life..........the perks are there though.  Sending love and light your way..........hugs and perseverance too!

 

manymoretodays(hopefully not too chatty.......as I am sometimes)

[ang]

Feeling awful.

 

Stable, but awful.   I just have no energy, no motivation.   Like stuck in a time warp.

 

I am grateful the panic, terror feelings are much less.   Now it is not dread,  just despair.   I suppose that is an improvment.

 

Using Gc Maf cream.   Trying to fix my battered immune system.   Weird thing is really odd, two fingers on my right hand, (going on to the third now too)  have swollen up over the last few days, getting worse.  Interesting?  Might have to cut off my ring on that finger.

[Daisy1]

Sorry to hear your feeling awful Ang. I hope you feel better soon. It's a very good sign your having some improvement too though. Have you tried some grease or oil to remove the ring ?

[ang]

Thanks Daisy1    too swollen to get the ring off the finger, if it gets worse, will just snip off the ring.

 

I am starting to believe I have a mycoplasma infection,  like lyme disease or such.   And apparently when you use the GC Maf cream,  and this mycoplasma  begins to die off, causes the odd symptoms like headaches, and swollen fingers.

 

Most of the population has this infection now,  and I think when we are run down, it takes over.

 

Oh well another day of the same.

 

So how are you Daisy, after giving up the seroquel?  That is not a nice drug.   Well I guess none of them are.  Only now off the stuff, am I getting some sort of normal routine in eating, instead of having zero appetite, and binge eating after the serouqel.  Hated that, drug to sleep, drug to eat, drug to wake up.    I hate pharma fraud.  

[manymoretodays]

Hi Ang, 

 

Rest, food, at least one interaction with another real life human each day.  You can skip the walk and dance madly around your kitchen or something.......just as good sometimes.   I am rooting for you!!! 

 

Been there, done that.........kind of where you are now........you have sure had a lot of switch a roos and additions/subtractions lately........as far as what you are doing. Try and skip the past tripping...........it is of no value what so ever right now.  I will let you know when I have the Emu farm up and running.......LOL..........however, sometimes I do wonder where I will end up.  For now..........now is good enough for me.

 

El yucko Monday here in Paradise........ and then............these Presidential debates to watch(or not watch) now.  El yucko just because I am trying maybe a bit too hard to get out there.........and had a pretty unrestful night last night.  2 stretches of 3 hour sleeps..........better than nothing though.  Alas though, been to the big City for a committee, been to another mtg., trash out, laundry up to date and dishes and groceries and all that jazz.  Drove the freeway.  Best though........was this weird bird song I heard when I got in this evening.........and talking to this clerk at the convenience store..........totally inspiring talk with a fellow who has autism..........man oh man.......the wisdom he shared.  I will be stopping there more often.   I thanked him..........teared up..........and then he thanked me too.    He was most comfortable talking in this Irish lilt he said after I asked where he was from............then he disclosed his autism and a bit more just pearls of coping and coping well. 

 

Just another day in the W/D life..........the perks are there though.  Sending love and light your way..........hugs and perseverance too!

 

manymoretodays(hopefully not too chatty.......as I am sometimes)

 

 

Oh.....just for clarification.......the fellow clerking in the convenience store was from Virginia.  So.......he had no reason for the Irish lilt accent but used it as it somehow made his communications easier.

[ang]

Hello Manymoretodays and other friends out there.

 

I feel stable, finally,  and to be honest I think I am past the ""by golly I think I might survive this""    to    I am going to survive this!!!!!!

 

So even though I whinge,  I must admit I am a lot better than I was 12 months ago.      

 

The fatigue/ lack of motivation/ is the biggest killer at the moment. 

 

But my brain feels stable, like ""normal""..............   no dark despair, even the morning horrors was a lot less when I woke up this morning.

 

Regrets, ruminations, micro emotions,  well they are somewhere in the back of my mind, but easy to keep under control.

 

I still spend most of the day, distracting myself.  

 

Hope I can make it grocery shopping today, havent made it out of the house to do this for a few weeks now   (lucky I have a son to get stuff, If desperate).

 

 

Hang in there people, IT DOES GET BETTER>

[ang]

I had a shower today!  I went food shopping!  I went out again by myself, I drove!  I am enjoying music, I havent been able to listen to music for a long time,  life is grand, at this moment in time!

 

Wow  !!  and this has been my hobby, as I recover,  uncovering pharma fraud.....................  Tanya is one wonderful, genuine, Australian, she cant be bought!!

 

Tanya Hammond

20 hrs

#vaxxed #vaxxedperiscope

Ok so I heard the weather changes really quickly in Melbourne just like the mind of a women (lucky I am one), so I was coming, then I wasn’t, now I am; when in Rome right?!?!

Truth is, the haters in the world schooled me on passion and drive and reminded me why I am the voice for the countless suffering, past, present and future.

I’m not here by choice, believe it or not but I didn’t cripple my husband, I didn’t want to be here and if I could reverse time, I would. Compliance put Ben on his ass, not me and I became a voice by default.

Heck, I’d prefer to be kicking back at a BBQ Aussie style throwing back a few ale with friends this weekend and watching my kids jump on the tramp but I realized that if I DO NOT come to Melbourne this weekend and honour the gift of the return flight, more Tanya’s out there would be caring by default, their Ben’s or Beau’s and more people would suffer my same fate!

Support the silence, join me in a voice echoed no more than with the sound of your presence here:

When: Saturday the 8th of October, 2016
Where: Alexander Gardens in St Kilda
Time: 1:30pm

Audience: Carers, parents of the injured, interested parties, those that are uncertain which way to turn and most importantly, the haters because without you, our message won’t reach people we would otherwise not be able to connect with (it’s ok, the truth will land on the right ears and we can’t save everyone but if we save one, the hot coals were worth the journey).

So if you’re ANY of the above, for or against, please share this message like I know you will and I thank you in advance, those saved will also thank you.

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[ang]

Well so much for my 5 minutes of bliss,    while my son had just fixed my headphones, the wireless ones, and I was so happy with the music, I just overflowed the sink, and flooded my kitchen, and I didnt hear it because Of the bloody music  !! hahah,  oh dear........................

[ChessieCat]

Yes, oh dear.  But it is only water ... and it's not the middle of winter.

[ang]

Wow, I just walked 4km to a local shop and back,  goodness, lets hope this lasts, I havent done that in about 12 months.  anything to ignore the cleanup I have to do in the kitchen?

[ang]

Thankyou Chessie Cat,  I remember going on these poisons, my sister said, ah, I remember when I became well, the sky was bluer than blue......... ie she was high on the stuff.

 

Well for me, being off the ****, and suddenly realising, the sky is bluer than blue, and I can smell the gumnuts, I can hear the birds..............  lets hope it lasts,    wellness, is not achieved long term by flying on meds

[scallywag]

Glad you're feeling much improved, ang.  Pace yourself -- you don't want to push too hard and send yourself back to bed or "couch potato" status.

[AliG]

Take it easy , Ang. It will be nice when you start to stabilize. Hopefully you are starting to do that slowly. Wishing you the best.

[ang]

Ah well, had one good day, back to the couch potato.................          am taking GC Maf,   and wow, that is knocking me around I think,  just cream, and as usual, I am overdoing it.    If I do have mycoplasma infection, it is killing it off, and making me feel more awful.         

 

I was just so exhausted this morning,  I had a shower, exhausted me so much went back and slept for another 3 hours!

 

OR this is just the up and down bumpy road, hopefully back to health!

 

Great facebook page, I found, called the Rampant Greenie...............    all about pharma fraud, etc.

[ang]

Well,  nothing much is changing,  still cant go out of the house, the thought of joining in with life in any sociable way still seems to give me anxiety.

 

Still waiting, waiting, for my life to improve.  Been a long time.

[ang]

Just signing in,  I have been pretty bad,  and almost bed bound for quite a few days.      Starting to feel better now.    Made it out to doctors and lab work yesterday,   MTHFR and lyme tests, and a few other things.

 

Am taking GC Maf and colloidal silver now.    

 

Also have to have an ear swab done, my ear just constantly has problems.   

 

And life moves on?