☼ Ten0275: I'm Dave and I'm almost there

[Flowers]

Fantastic news! I wish you all the best in the coming weeks as you start your new drug free life.

 

I am sorry to learn about your ear troubles. If it does come to surgery there are a few tips on here from Alto re anaesthesia. She mentioned propofol which  is what I just had when I had my gall bladder removed recently. I was quite scared as you can imagine as us in WD don't always tolerate drugs very well but  it gave no rise to WD symptoms at all and I am very thankful for that.

 

Best Wishes

 

Flowers xxx

[ten0275]

Hello All,

 

@Prestorb and @Flowers, thank you both kindly for your words and positivity, much appreciated!

 

Update: Last night was night 26 of no medication whatsoever. I'm not taking any supplements either at this point except for a probiotic that is included in the whey protein I utilize. Things have been going rather well. I'd had a span of morning anxiety that finally subsided and the last 4 mornings have been relatively free of that morning spike. When I had the anxiety, I dealt with that by utilizing deep-breathing, non-catastrophizing, and waiting it out. That worked.

 

I'd been dealing with restless legs which was leading to some loss of sleep. I'd started doing some light running again shortly after I discontinued the Mirtazapine. I started to wonder if there was a correlation. After stopping running for a few days, I found that the restless leg symptoms abated. So I do believe the increase in cardiovascular physical activity, and perhaps the impact of my legs on the road, was somehow connected. I'll stick with the weight lifting and some moderately paced walking. I've dropped two pounds since stopping the Mirtazapine anyway and haven't really changed anything, except I don't get the massive cravings for carbohydrates in the evening.

 

So, all in all, at nearly 1 month off, things are going very well. I feel positive and I feel healthy. I'm engaging in life activities normally. I always bear in mind that things may get bumpy again, but don't dwell on that possibility. Just knowing that it could occur will prevent me from being blind-sided should it occur. I choose to expect success while being prepared for failure.

 

I'll continue to update as things progress. You know, it really is mind-boggling. When I was poly-drugged and fresh off what really amounted to a multi-drug cold-turkey, things were so incredibly bad for me, it is truly indescribable. Though I know you all suffer on your own paths and so perhaps there is no need to describe, because you experience it yourselves. I never thought I would be here, drug free, I never thought I would heal, especially in those early days. I thought my life was broken and essentially over as I had known it. I thought the years of taking the drugs and my naivety about their discontinuation in the early days had sentenced me for life. But I was wrong and I have never been so happy to have been wrong about something. I am no-one from nowhere. There is nothing extraordinary about me. I truly believe that if you are patient in your tapers and patient in bearing the horrid symptoms that are beyond anything we could have conceived of being subjected to in our precious human lifetimes, you'll also arrive at that finish line and can release the pause button that withdrawal places on our lives.

 

Hang in there,

 

Dave

[apace41]

Awesome post, Dave.  Thank you for sharing.

 

For some reason I'm hearing ****** singing "Hello from the other side."

 

Best,

 

Andy 

 

P.S. Not sure why the site blocks the name of the artist who sang that but... whatever.

Edited July 11, 2019 by apace41

[Glosmom]

Congratulations, Dave!  Wonderful news!!

[marie123]

Beautiful work getting done with your tapers. I have an idea how bad it was for you as you were poly-drugged like me. It takes some great determination for sure but it get's done.

Enjoy your freedom. You've earned it.

 

Marie

[mdwstrx]

Congratulations!  As Marie said, 'enjoy your freedom'!  What a beautiful sentiment. 💜

Thank you for sharing as it gives hope to all of us. 

[LuiB]

On 12/17/2014 at 10:26 AM, ten0275 said:

i know i can weather whatever storm. i'll own the pain. i'm not a tough guy at all. but withdrawal has showed me two things: that i can live through hell on earth and that the anxiety and depression that underlies my personal psychology is "normal," and manageable without the use of chemical substances.

 

Dear Dave, it is wonderful to hear about your journey and the successes you have entailed. 

 

Going back to your first post, as quoted, I would like to recommend a book for you that will give you insight into the reasoning that people get these manifestations of anxiety, depression etc. And are incorrectly labelled in the Western medical model as mental illnesses.

 

Where in reality, it is normal. Stan Grof, in his book Spiritual Emergence and The Stormy Search for the Self. He reiterates the perspective that these manifestation I. E. "symptoms" are a Form of spiritual emergence or emergency. There is a play on words there. 

 

As in a crisis (as in the negative experience--emergency) and emergence (as in the break through when one surpasses the crisis on one's journey). 

 

I hope these books will give you some peace of mind as to what you are going through or what you went through. 

 

Oh yes, and that psychiatry is very wrong. 

 

There are also other resources for rethinking psychiatry such as the blog "Mad in America". Www.madinamerica.com and Robert Whitakervs book Anatomy of an Epidemic. Whitaker can be found conducting seminars on YouTube. 

 

Wishing you the best of luck. 

[Hopefull]

Hi Dave, 

How are you doing these days?

[Altostrata]

Hello, @ten0275, how are you doing?

[ten0275]

@Altostrata, everyone, hello, I'm doing well. Doing my best as we all are to get through these challenging times of disquiet and unrest. I hope you and everyone here are hanging in there as best as you can.

 

On the withdrawal side of things, today is my 1 year anniversary off of all psychotropic drugs. I jumped from the Mirtazapine 6/15/2019, and it is only coincidentally that I just saw that in my own signature, ha!! 🙂 I was actually back here today to report my journey off of a non-psychotropic medication, the allergy drug Zyrtec - that taper is detailed here:

 

antihistamines

 

Were it not for my having to deal with the Zyrtec, I'd have written a success story earlier this year. I'm going to give it a little more time, but do plan on writing a success story in the not-to-distant future. It is something I want to give some good reflection to prior to writing.

 

After withdrawing from both Benzos and Mirtazapine (and after a life of being on varied psychotropics), things are very good right now. I still deal with some histamine issues - and this time of year is heavy-hitting due to seasonal allergies - but following a low histamine diet, while restrictive, is helping a great deal.

 

So many of those symptoms that were the absolute bane and misery of my existence in withdrawal are gone. Life is as normal as it can be in these very abnormal times. Jumping from Mirtazapine after my long taper was rather painless. There were some bumpy days, but nothing I couldn't handle and Mirtazapine is something that is now in my rearview mirror.

 

I hope everyone is staying safe and I hope all those that are still doing the diligent process of tapering from antidepressants and benzos will be steadfast and hopeful that there is a happy finish line when all is said and done.

 

Hang in there,

 

Dave

 

 

[Altostrata]

What good news, Dave. I'm sure you'll recover from the Zyrtec mishap soon. I look forward to your success story.

[nick1990]

This is awesome Dave , wait to go mate ! 

[ten0275]

@nick1990 and @Altostrata

 

Thank you both, your kinds words are truly appreciated. 🙂 It has been a long journey!

 

Hang in there,

Dave

[bmi197143]

On 7/11/2019 at 3:46 AM, Flowers said:

Fantastic news! I wish you all the best in the coming weeks as you start your new drug free life.

 

I am sorry to learn about your ear troubles. If it does come to surgery there are a few tips on here from Alto re anaesthesia. She mentioned propofol which  is what I just had when I had my gall bladder removed recently. I was quite scared as you can imagine as us in WD don't always tolerate drugs very well but  it gave no rise to WD symptoms at all and I am very thankful for that.

 

Best Wishes

 

Flowers xxx

Hello sir I have question maybe you can me. Do they charge you for compounding your medication. And how do i go about this do I need script change from my doctor as well.

[ten0275]

@bmi197143, hello.

 

There is usually an extra charge to have the Mirtazapine compounded by a pharmacy. It wasn’t a great deal of extra money, but an extra expense nonetheless.

 

Yes, usually your doctor will have to write the prescription specifically for a compound which will be sent to a pharmacy that offers compounding. You should ask your doctor to write the prescription for 1mg = 1ml. This makes it easy because you know that if you are taking 7.25mg for example, that would be 7.25ml liquid.

 

I hope this helps. 

 

Hang in there,

 

Dave

[bmi197143]

1 hour ago, ten0275 said:

@bmi197143, hello.

 

There is usually an extra charge to have the Mirtazapine compounded by a pharmacy. It wasn’t a great deal of extra money, but an extra expense nonetheless.

 

Yes, usually your doctor will have to write the prescription specifically for a compound which will be sent to a pharmacy that offers compounding. You should ask your doctor to write the prescription for 1mg = 1ml. This makes it easy because you know that if you are taking 7.25mg for example, that would be 7.25ml liquid.

 

I hope this helps. 

 

Hang in there,

 

Dave

Hey Dave I am currently at .017 of Amitriptyline and .030 of Ropinerole so I have a ways to go yet but when I get it down to small am thinking of compounding. Man you really inspired a lot of people thank you so much for your insight.

[ten0275]

@bmi197143, thanks for the kind words and keep up the great work. Withdrawal is one of those situations in life where we really need to master the "marathon mind." That is to say, taking each step thoughtfully and slowly over a long-haul. So many aspects of our lives require the "sprint mind," but the taper process is marathon all the way. Stay the course and you cross the finish line 🙂

 

Hang in there,

 

Dave

[Mimi79]

On 6/18/2020 at 7:22 AM, ten0275 said:

Withdrawal is one of those situations in life where we really need to master the "marathon mind."

Hi @ten0275

I like this phrase that I quote. It is inspiring me. I am a marathon runner, so I hope it will help me to achieve my biggest challenge, tapering Remeron. 
I read your thread and it gives me some hope. Like you, intrusive thoughts are far my worst symptom. I feel hopeless when they hit me. I don’t know how to get rid of them.

How did you manage the presence of those thoughts? Have you done something to get rid of them or they disappeared by themselves?

I need some advice, if you don’t mind.

 

Have a nice day!

 

Mimi

[ten0275]

@Mimi79, hi.

 

I'm glad that quote means something to you and is giving you some inspiration. If you're a marathon runner, you know viscerally what I am talking about. Staying present within each mile, mindful of the pace, the finish line being accepted as the goal attained on the installment plan of each mile's unique, often daunting challenges. It truly does apply to the withdrawal process.

 

There really is no getting rid of the thoughts. Honestly. You've probably even noticed that when you try to push them out, they tend to stick around or even intensify. Distraction can sometimes help, but for me that wasn't often successful. The best coping mechanism I had was to remind myself that because the thoughts troubled me, it meant that they were not a part of my psychological make-up. They were a foreign presence in my otherwise peaceful and positive mind. I'd imagine my mind a dark sky, and the thoughts were just fireworks breaking against the backdrop. Fireworks don't burn the sky, they just flash and thunder and move on. The thoughts don't damage your mind, they likewise flash and thunder and move on. Reading your signature, I see you are on both the higher dose of Mirtazapine and the Ativan. That's where I started too - so very interesting you are having the intrusive thoughts.

 

They did disappear. For me, it was very much a windows and wave kind of deal. And when things first started lightening up, I'd notice that maybe 20 or 30 minutes had gone by without a thought that troubled me. This expanded out to weeks, months, and now years as I haven't had an intrusive thought in many years.

 

Have much hope, Mimi! It seems a daunting process when it is all lying ahead of you. But that's when the marathon mind is needed most, right? Because it keeps you putting one foot in front of the other and shows you how much you can surpass even your own ideas and definitions of strength.

 

Hang in there,

Dave

[Mimi79]

Thank you so much, @ten0275. 
I really connect to what you’ve been through. Our story have some similarities. This is why it gives me hope. I think we are approximately the same age too.

To continue with the marathon metaphor, there is something different about withdrawal. When I plan a big run, I’m  preparing myself with a consistent and steady training, few months before the marathon. I am so well trained that it is a matter of fact that it’s gonna work well. I am confident and ready to face the game, I know I’m able to, I know my strength and my limits.

 

In AD WD, I’m not prepared to that, I don’t know my limits and I’m always doubting my capacities to face this ordeal. And I don’t see the end. It’s like an endless journey and I don’t know when or where the finish line will appear.
 

Intrusive thoughts are my Achille’s heel. I’m able to cope every other symptoms, but this one (I have intrusive thoughts of hurting my child’s) are hitting me where it hurts. My girls are the Apple of my eyes (don’t know if you say that in English), so having thoughts of hurting them is not sustainable. 
 

Do you think your thoughts disappeared because of the drug reducing or because you better coped with them? Because I want to encourage myself that reducing the remeron will help on this side. About Ativan, I stopped it few months ago. I wasn’t a regular user.

 

We, long distance runner, have an inner (almost) limitless endurance capacity. We can afford suffering and we can continue even if our body is crying for relief (I call myself « Energizer Bunny » to help me during a marathon). Now I have to use this skill and associate mental suffering to physical suffering. 

Thank you so much to give me hope and tips, It helps me a lot! 
 

Mimi79
 

[ten0275]

@Mimi79

 

Withdrawal absolutely presents many of those unknowns for which we cannot plan, we cannot prepare. Symptoms morph and change, come and go. And herein lies a need for flexibility - which I struggled greatly with. Because I like things to be "just so." And they are rarely just so in this process. But I guess that is true in all of life to some degree.

 

When I ran my very first marathon (this was about 5 years before withdrawal), I really had no idea what I was doing. I'd never run over 10km in a race, and never ran over 15km ever. I had focused on choosing a smaller, more rural marathon - but didn't look much beyond that. I trained precisely as one should. In fact, I followed a training plan. For my first event, I chose a coastline race and for some reason, I just assumed it would be flat as many marathons are. Wrong. The topography of the course made Boston's Heartbreak Hill look like a flat and leisurely expanse of slope. I did not find out how grueling the course was until I was actually running it. That's how naive I was! The first 6km rolled off fairly easily, but the climbs kept getting more and more intense. It was hotter than it was supposed to be that day as well. It was October in the Northeast US and it was sunny and in the 80s.

 

By 24km, my body was failing in many ways. I'd noticed that there was some blood on my shoes where my toes were and found out later I'd lost two toenails. I had a profound sense of dizziness that no amount of hydration stops or nutritional stops were alleviating. I did not feel structurally sound. 38km was the crest of a hill that started a downhill glide for the final 3.5km of the race. When I crested that hill at 38km, I was high as a Georgia pine on endorphins and noted a bird of prey circling the woods nearby. Considering I felt like I could drop dead right there and then, that bird seemed well-positioned for an easy meal!

 

Anyway, I stumbled over the finish line and I was a mess. I was wrapped in one of those foil-looking space blankets and taken off to a tent for re-hydration.

 

So many times during that race, I wanted to jump on that little white bus that kept driving the course picking up those who couldn't hang in there. But there is something in us that keeps pushing through adversity, even when it is at its most brutal. And that is so valuable. It is a trait of marathoners, but also a trait of humans.

 

I like that you call the intrusive thoughts your Achilles heel. Like you, every other symptom - even as uncomfortable as many of them were - were manageable. The thoughts I was having towards my sons were not. The first intrusive thought I ever had in withdrawal came absolutely out of nowhere. I had been experiencing some insomnia and the thought of hitting one of my sons popped into my head as I was lying awake in the middle of the night - and that thought would not stop. And the thoughts just got worse and worse from there... for a while. I never acted on a thought, but I always feared I was going to. And therein lies the unique terror of intrusive thoughts.

 

The coping helped me survive the thoughts. But healing from the drug damage is what made them go away. So absolutely - you have reason to be optimistic that carefully tapering the mirtazapine will help very much on that side.

 

45mg was not a good dose of Mirtazapine for me. I found it too activating. But I knew I couldn't rush off of it. As I carefully tapered down to lower levels, it became much more tolerable. It's that whole weird action of Mirtazapine where the higher doses rev you up and the lower doses are sedating.

 

Hang in there, Mimi.

Dave

[Mimi79]

Hi Dave.

Thank you for giving me so much hope! 
I realized today that, even if I have only few thoughts about my girls, the fear they bring stay longer then the thoughts themselves. I fear looking at my daughters because I’m afraid to have awful thoughts. I avoid them. This is why those thoughts are so awful. They push me away from the 2 humans I love the most in that world. 
Fortunately, today is a little bit better. Maybe the wave is losing his power. I hope so. I still have fear, but less intense. 
 

There is one thing I am convinced, it’s the fact that I’ll never act on my thoughts. I know that. I have absolutely no doubt about it. 
 

I truly like to hear about your marathon experience. It makes me realize that I miss running a race. I miss this incredible feeling of accomplishment and joy when I cross the finish line, when you don’t know if you want to cry or laugh. I have to confess that I have a little preference for half-marathon. Don’t know why, but it fits me perfectly. I’ve done 5 in the last 6 years. 

 Last summer, I had a bad hip injury in the middle of my Marathon training program, so I didn’t make it. So disappointing, I wanted to make another 42km for my 40th birthday! 
And this summer, I am in the midst of WD from remeron. I’ve took the chance to run a little bit, like 45 minutes, 3x a week. But I feel that it makes my anxiety ramp up. So I don’t push it too much. Anyway, almost all the races in my area are canceled due to Covid19.

I’m afraid I will have to make an «X » on all races project during all my AD WD. Are you able now to make long run?

 

Sorry for my English, I try my best! I think in French and write it in English, so it is what it is!
 

Thank you for your help. So appreciated. 
Have a nice day!

 

Anne-Marie

 

 

 

 

 

[Mimi79]

And this is funny, but I miss so much to run a race, that I even miss loosing my toenails! One thing positive about AD WD and not doing a marathon for few years, it’s that at least I will have beautiful toenails for the first time in years!!

Have to find positive where I can! 😉

[ten0275]

Anne Marie,

 

You're welcome It's not easy stuff, but I am a testament to the fact that there is much reason for hope. There is absolutely nothing unique or remarkable about me as a human. If I can heal, anyone can heal. I thought I was so damaged. I had been on those drugs for decades. I was damaged, but I was slowly returned to my factory setting.

 

Really good observation there, really good - that the fear of the thoughts actually stays around longer than the thoughts themselves. So perhaps seeking ways to be mindful of the fear, and releasing the fear would be helpful. That is admittedly a very difficult task, but not impossible. I'm happy to know that the wave is losing its power and the fear was less intense yesterday. I remember that feeling very well. You can actually feel the grip of the wave loosening. Isn't that an amazing feeling? That's what it is like when you heal  too. The grip loosens and never returns. The windows and waves aren't the only sign, but are a good sign that you are moving in that direction. Your body is seeking homeostasis, that calm in between the windows and waves.

 

For the time being, it is probably best that you keep your running to what you have been doing. I am both jealous AND happy for you that you are still able to get 45 minutes 3 times per week! I could not run at all during withdrawal. Like you, it would make my anxiety ramp up. The few times I tried, I regretted it. So I took up weightlifting instead as it didn't seem to aggravate the anxiety to the same degree.

 

Try not to fear for the future of your running. It's something you'll need to just experiment with as you withdraw and heal from the drugs. I can run or bike now without any real problems. I admittedly don't do a lot of longer runs any more as I came to prefer the strength training and moderate cardio. But I still run 10 to 15 km every once in awhile

 

Votre anglais est bien meilleur que mon français, donc pas de soucis. Gotta love google translate.

 

Honestly, I'm glad to be around and help out. Hearing from others who had healed before me was so important when I was where you are in the process. It's really important to know that while what you are facing is incredibly messed up, it is "normal" for what it is, and there are those of us who have been able to recover and move on with our lives in a happy, positive, and productive way.

 

Hang in there @Mimi79, hang in there all.

 

Dave

[Erell]

Just wanna thank you deeply for taking the time to share your thoughts  : I'm currently struggling with these dark thoughts and impulses, and reading that yours disappeared is a huge helper  🤗

[ten0275]

@Erell

 

Thank you for taking the time to read. I'm sorry that you are also struggling with the dark thoughts and impulses, it's truly a formidable symptom. For me, it was the one symptom I always feared would not disappear. When it started gradually disappearing, I was still in disbelief that it would ever fully stop. But it did fully stop. And then I was in disbelief that it would stop forever.

 

For a short period of time after the worst had passed, the thoughts would still pop up on occasions when my stress levels were higher than normal. But now, they have gone completely and do not return even when I am feeling poorly - it's been that way for several years now.

 

Hang in there, and thanks to you and all the other moderators for your service to this community.

 

Dave

[Erell]

25 minutes ago, ten0275 said:

 

- it's been that way for several years now.

Wonderful 😄

Truly, it is such a Blessing to have the opportunity to hear the voices of those ahead us ❤

(Hope my sentence makes sense in English!)

 

Like you, this symptom appeared after an updose, so reading that yours subsided while you decreased your dose is great comfort.

Interesting that this symptom seems to appear with too high dosage.

 

Like you and Mimi said, the worse is not necessarily the symptom in itself but the fear of being able to act.

 

Again, thank you for coming back here and spread hope, you're a gem! ☀️

 

[Mimi79]

Hi Dave, 

12 hours ago, ten0275 said:

. I am both jealous AND happy for you that you are still able to get 45 minutes 3 times per week!

When I’m not in a wave, no problemo! But during wave, I have to avoid it, unfortunately. 
 

Thanks again and I’m so happy to read that you are able now to run or train as you want. I will keep my next big run In few years, to celebrate my life without drugs! 
 

For my English, I don’t use google translate to force me to practice. Anyway, sometime google gives weird traduction... I need to practice because we love to trip on the East Coast with the kids during the summer. From Montréal, we like to go to Boston, N-Y or Cape Cod. Unfortunately this summer we made a « X » on that. Maybe one day, we will be aloud  to travel outside Canada again... 

 

Just to know, where was the run (marathon) you talked to me about on the East coast? 
 

Have a nice day and take care!

 

Anne-Marie

 

[Mimi79]

9 hours ago, ten0275 said:

 

For a short period of time after the worst had passed, the thoughts would still pop up on occasions when my stress levels were higher than normal.

I makes me realize that maybe there is a reason why my thoughts came back after few months without having them. My level of stress is pretty much higher these days, as I have to prepare my daughters for their « back to school », after 6 months staying at home, in this bizarre atmosphere of pandemic. A lot of things to do and to think about.

And I’m actually replacing my boss too (who is in vacation).
So I can hope that when the « routine »  will be back, my stress level will decrease and my thoughts will lessen.
 

Thanks a lot for your insight...

 

[ten0275]

@Erell, thank you again for the kind words, that means a lot Your words make sense in English. I give credit to anyone whose second language is English. I took 5 years of Spanish in school and currently only know how to ask for a glass of water and then were the bathroom is. Two important requests I guess!

 

@Mimi79 - Anne Marie, hi.

 

This (see the link) is the marathon I ran for my first. It is cancelled this year, but hopefully next year it'll be going again. It is a small marathon, and some of the most gorgeous albeit intense terrain I have ever been in. And a great place for families.

 

MDI Marathon

 

Oh, absolutely. Extra stress really intensified the thoughts, and for a long time brought them back after they'd disappeared. It's not that way any more for me, and I'm guessing you will find the same for you.

 

This pandemic is a scary thing, and just that alone has raised the ambient stress levels of pretty much everything. I'm sure having to prepare your daughters to go back to school is anxiety provoking. I had to actually laugh a little when you talked about the stress of covering for your boss. I am put in that position so often. I cover for my boss every time he goes on vacation and I am usually stressed out for two weeks before he leaves, and then of course when he is gone. I stress because I put a lot of pressure on myself. He thinks I do fine. We can be our own harshest critics.

 

With all of those stresses - the pandemic, preparing your daughters to go back to school, covering for your boss - remember that:

 

1 - Those are normal, healthy things to be stressed out about.
2 - You're doing your best to handle them which is all you can ask of yourself.
3 - The reason why the thoughts intensify as you handle these normal stressors is because your nervous system is fragile due to the drugs.
4 - As you heal, this fragility of your nervous system will become less and there will come a time when the thoughts won't return.

 

Hang in there,

Dave

[Mimi79]

Hi Dave. 
I have some questions about your WD journey. I read in your signature that you slowed down the process as you were going on lower dose. Is there that the symptoms were increasing?

 

And did you change your diet or food habit in order to feel better? And what seemed to work best? Did you followed a particular diet?

 

I’m trying to avoid alcool and caféine, but I’m wondering if cutting all processed sugar could be useful. It is very hard to me to cut sugar, so I want to be sure it worth the effort!

Last week, I was saying  that my wave was lessening and it was. I’ve had a wonderful window during all the weekend, but it lasted only few days, now I’m back in the middle of another awful wave with full of intrusive thoughts...

 

Thank you so much!!

 

Anne-Marie

 

[ten0275]

22 hours ago, Mimi79 said:

Hi Dave. 
I have some questions about your WD journey. I read in your signature that you slowed down the process as you were going on lower dose. Is there that the symptoms were increasing?

 

And did you change your diet or food habit in order to feel better? And what seemed to work best? Did you followed a particular diet?

 

I’m trying to avoid alcool and caféine, but I’m wondering if cutting all processed sugar could be useful. It is very hard to me to cut sugar, so I want to be sure it worth the effort!

Last week, I was saying  that my wave was lessening and it was. I’ve had a wonderful window during all the weekend, but it lasted only few days, now I’m back in the middle of another awful wave with full of intrusive thoughts...

 

Thank you so much!!

 

Anne-Marie

Anne-Marie, hi.

 

Good observation. I slowed down the taper towards the end for a couple reasons. First, at that low dose, I still felt that the Remeron was effecting me, but I did not feel at all rushed to jump. I wanted to be sure my body was as acclimated as it could be by the time I decided it was the right moment to step away from the drug. Secondly, I often took big pauses around holidays, family members' birthdays, travel, or other events. Because I did not want to be suffering the effects of a cut during important moments in my, or my family's lives. Does that make sense? So no, it wasn't because the symptoms were increasing - in fact below 2mg, the symptoms were relatively mild. I just wanted to take my time, limit the impact to those around me, and soften the effects of each cut.

 

I did change my diet at times. I drank, and continue to drink, absolutely no alcohol. I don't know if I will maintain that forever, but for now, I feel it is best. I set myself a tentative date of June 2022 when I might have a glass of Scotch. But that is just a maybe. It is entirely possible that I will change my mind. At 45 years old, alcohol doesn't really interest me a whole lot any more.

 

I drink coffee, and plenty of it, every day. Caffeine was useful to me at a certain point in the process. During withdrawal, I suffered first predominately anxiety, then later a mix of anxiety and depression. When it was an anxiety issue predominately - when the intrusive thoughts were at their worst, I didn't drink coffee for many, many months. But when the intrusive thoughts lightened up and it was a mix of both anxiety and depression, I found that one cup of coffee in the morning actually brought me some relief from symptoms. I think that is something that each individual has to test for themselves.

 

In terms of food, I increased my intake of protein and definitely cut back on carbohydrates and most certainly refined sugars. Because of Remeron's impact on the histamine receptors, I also had to adopt a low histamine diet which meant plenty of fresh meat and low-histamine fruits and vegetables. I went through a period of time when I could not eat dairy, but slowly reintroduced that. I still eat a predominately high protein low-histamine diet to this day.

 

I am sorry to hear you are back in another wave after the wonderful window you recently had. The windows were like that for me too - always felt too short, and always followed by the hardcore waves and the intrusive thoughts they brought with them. Please rest assured that another window and a quieting of those thoughts will come again. And one day, it will just be one... big... window... That what life is now for me. A window. Life isn't perfect. Covid, political instability, the typical punches that life deals on us - but overall, compared to the hell of withdrawal, it's all window all the time. You'll get there.

 

Hang in there,

Dave

[Mimi79]

On 9/6/2020 at 3:26 PM, ten0275 said:

I also had to adopt a low histamine diet which meant plenty of fresh meat and low-histamine fruits and vegetables. I went through a period of time when I could not eat dairy, but slowly reintroduced that. I still eat a predominately high protein low-histamine diet to this day.

Hi Dave,

I’m wondering if low histamine diet could be a good thing for me, but I find it very restrictive and Counterintuitive. I’m the one that eat plenty of salad everyday, with fresh tomatoes from my garden. And I don’t want to eat more carbohydrates, so I avoid rice, bread, pasta, etc...
What do you mean by « fresh meat »? Do I have to go directly to the farm to be sure my meat is really fresh? Or it just means that I have to avoid canned meat?

Do you have a book or website that could help me find my way through this?

Sorry for all those questions, but I’ve always wanted to take care of what I eat in order to help me, but everyday I read conflicting informations about how to help our brain through our gut. I’ve read a very interesting book about how our gut health is link to our brain health, but this book was saying that we have to avoid pro-inflammatory food and eat plenty of fermented food. But fermented food seems to be pro-histamine! So confusing!

 

Thank you again for your help, it is so appreciated!

 

Anne-Marie

[ten0275]

Hey Anne-Marie,

 

The low histamine diet is absolutely restrictive - and understandably counterintuitive. I've known so many people, myself included, who have had the histamine issue during and after Mirtazapine use. I will say that a good first indicator of this issue presenting is if the foods you are eating are causing symptoms within a few hours of eating them. These symptoms can include typical allergy type reactions, but also often heightened anxiety.

 

By fresh meat, I mean meat that is frozen or as fresh as absolutely possible. Decomposition is the friend of histamine. So if you have frozen beef or chicken for example, you would want to thaw this right before eating it (defrosting in the microwave) and then preparing it and consuming it - and you'd want to not eat leftovers. Histamine levels soar in leftovers. They also soar in meats thawed on the counter or in the refrigerator. For someone without histamine issues, thawing on the countertop or in the refrigerator and eating leftovers presents no issues. That was me before Mirtazapine! But now, I still need to abide by low histamine eating, and that means taking care in how I purchase, prepare and consume animal proteins.

 

There are a lot of resources out there, but this one has served me particularly well.

 

https://www.mastzellaktivierung.info/downloads/foodlist/21_FoodList_EN_alphabetic_withCateg.pdf

 

Any questions on that, you can let me know. But once you get the hang of the rating system, it's pretty easy to follow.

 

Gut health is huge! A large proportion of histamine release happens in the gut. And yes, fermented foods are really bad for histamine issues. What is supportive is the supplementation of vitamin C (I use camu camu powder) which helps boost DAO levels that helps mitigate excess histamine, and also, a good histamine-friendly probiotic. Unfortunately, the probiotics in fermented foods and many probiotic supplements actually worsen the issue. I take a histamine friendly bifidobacterium strain of probiotic which has helped me immensely.

 

Addressing my histamine issues greatly reduced the level of anxiety I felt and feel. That was perhaps the best result of following a low histamine diet for me. But I also suffer less headaches, and haven't had a migraine in a very, very long time. The further I get away from the Mirtazapine, the more I can eat a wider variety of foods again. This is often the case.

 

I know there is a lot written here. I hope some of it is useful.

 

Hang in there my friend.

 

Dave

[Mimi79]

16 hours ago, ten0275 said:

I take a histamine friendly bifidobacterium strain of probiotic which has helped me immensely.

@ten0275 
I’m using a probiotic supplement. How can I know it is histamine friendly?
Thanks!

 

[ten0275]

4 minutes ago, Mimi79 said:

I’m using a probiotic supplement. How can I know it is histamine friendly?
Thanks!

 

Hey Anne-Marie,

 

Here are a couple links:

 

https://www.optibacprobiotics.com/professionals/latest-research/general-health/which-probiotic-for-histamine-intolerance

 

https://www.florahealth.com/ca-en/blog/histamines-management-natural-approach/

 

Here's a pullout quote that might give you some direction:

 

Quote

Some Lactobacilli commonly used in the production of fermented dairy products can produce histamine (and other biogenic amines), which may contribute to the aroma of fermented foods such as yoghurt and cheese. Accordingly, fermented foods tend to contain a high level of histamine.

 

Hang in there.

Dave