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ten0275

☼ Ten0275: I'm Dave and I'm almost there

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Pugknows

Dave, your positive energy is infectious. Thank you for infecting me.

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brassmonkey

Hey Dave-- I'm so glad to see that things are going well.  It is so helpful to be able to see a cycle develop so you can predict things a little.  It takes a lot of the second guessing out of it.  Hope things keep going well.

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Givemepeace

Awesome post ten,

 

You are one of the best, always there for others!!

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LoveandLight

Great post :)

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Rhiannon

I see so many on this site in a world of hurt and it makes me realize how far I've come - because I was there once. I don't take healing for granted. But I didn't do anything special to get to it. I just waited it out. I dug a foxhole, kept my spirit up, tried to exercise my body as possible, and tried to be careful what I put into myself. When the barrage came in, I took it and let the fear do what it had to do to finally show itself the door. But mostly, I just waited. There is a lot of fear on this site that healing is impossible - that this is a life-sentence. Healing does happen. I don't know what the structures in my brain look like, but all I know is that they, or something in there, is actually working again. I was completely torn down in withdrawal - physically, emotionally. I'd been on benzos and ADs - and in the hospital, the atypical anti-psychotics were given to me. Threw some gabapentin in there as well just for giggles (actually the stuff made me weep uncontrollably). Aw, I was poly-drugged like nobody's business! I felt I was destroyed. I thought it was the end for me. Dave's life, done. I wasn't destroyed. It wasn't the end. Ultimately, I was simply a hot coal buried in the smoldering ash of a medical disaster - time came around and I'm beginning to blaze up again. It'll be cool to see everyone on here taste healing in their own time and way. To see everyone blaze up and shine like that. Fresh. New. A sort of rebirth. It'll happen.

Hang in there.

 

 

Dave

 

 

Nice. Beautifully said. Thanks Dave.

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Martina23

Dear Dave, I was thinking about you. Please could you tell me if the major deppression can solve also by itself? I dont want to take these all antidepresants and antipsychtics. I would rather wait until this everything solves by itself only naturally. Do you think it is possible? Or is something that the medicaments are something what I have to take. I hope everything is ok with you. If you would like to speak with somebody you can write me anytime.

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ten0275

Everyone, hello.

 

I want to thank each of you who stopped in after reading my last post and left me some words. It means a ton and I want you to know it. Two of the most difficult parts of withdrawal for me were the people who did not believe/understand that not only did withdrawal exist, but that I was suffering from it - and - the slim presence of those who had actually made it through towards the other side - towards peace and healing. I always said to myself that if I got to a more sturdy place myself, that I would both affirm others' suffering AND show that the gentle shore does exist across the rough waters. These gentle shores exist, I've got better than one foot on them already - and I know you suffer, so please hang in there.

 

Ever, I read your history and your now very pragmatic and cautious approach to tapering. I admire you! What is it you say there in NZ - Woot!

 

Sunflower, as I said, I love the way you are chronicling your journey. And I think you are on the right track with the magnesium. It is really the only supplement that helped me.

 

Pugknows, I don't think anyone has ever thanked me for infecting them with something before :) May the strain I passed on to you prove strong and viral!

 

Brassmonkey, always thankful for your presence.

 

GMP! Hang in there, brother!

 

Joannad, your presence is peaceful and strong. Thank you.

 

Rhi, thank you. Not only for stopping in, but for moderating this cove we find ourselves in.

 

Martina, hi. I've thought about you too. While I cannot answer the question you asked directly, I can say that it would be worthwhile to evaluate when the major depressive disorder began. If it was after you began psychotropic medication, then absolutely. You will heal. I did the "hospital thing" when I got desperate in the early days. It just meant a little more work after. Hang in there.

 

Tattyapple - hello, and hang in there. One day at a time equals one step at a time - to marathon completion.

 

Well, I am recovering from yet another flu bug. My oldest son is in his first year of school and brings home all manner of communicable illness! Lovely! But, his hugs and kisses more than make up for the maladies. The U.S. east coast north is about to buried in snow again, so my shovel stands ready - as does an iPod full of Funkadelic and The Beatles.

 

Off to the gym. My very best to each of you.

 

Hang in there.

 

Dave

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ten0275

i am going to start taking these cuts a whole lot slower. i cut that 5% over two weeks ago and i am definitely symptomatic. nothing debilitating, but seriously uncomfortable. higher anxiety, racing thoughts, the slight urge to avoid situations i would otherwise get into, some depression, some dizziness and head pressure - i feel super-teary today. go ahead, tell me something sad and i will lose it right now :):(

 

anyway, the take-home message i think is that it can get more difficult at the lower doses. i thought cutting 5% at 4 weeks from the last cut would be safe - but i'm not certain i was totally stabilized from the cut prior. and i am feeling it now.

 

i hate this sh*t.

 

hang in there everyone and cut slow...

 

dave

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LoveandLight

Your getting there :) nearly there. Hope you feel better :)

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Ever

I 'think' I'm beginning to feel the cuts now too Dave.   I've now had two episodes of what I thought were 'near heat-stroke', when I've been working my wee horse on the ground in the arena.  Got really dizzy and almost faint (I never faint) and I had slight dizziness which improved every day after the first episode for about a week.  It has been really hot here so I just thought it was that, but I've realised that both episodes were just after my cuts.   Plus I too have been a bit weepy last few days.   arrgh.  Slower it is then lol.   And longer holds I think are in order.  

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lolly

Hope it passes soon Dave. Slowly does it is the best way.. Well it is for me anyway. sometimes it can take a while to catch up with you and like you said you can think you have settled down before you actually have fully.

I hate those wobbles you have when you feel like avoiding things. How rubbish!

I'm still holding. Bit scared to drop again

Lolly

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Martina23

Poor Dave, so much suffering... Dont worry you will get better. You will see. And then you can again support me and Givemepiece...

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Givemepeace

Sorry to see you suffering this blip ten,

 

Hope it passes soon for you and you are back to your solid self.

 

Thinking of you mate.

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ten0275

everyone, hello.

 

thank you all so much for the kind support, the comforting words - as always. this place is truly a refuge and i am beyond grateful that i can reach out, talk about how i suffer, and someone will actually say, "hey, i care - i know your breed of hurt - hang in there." and even tell me about what is going on with them too. it means a great deal. i know i don't need to tell you that, because you all feel much the same way. it's warm.

 

i am feeling somewhat better today. often, my more difficult days are followed by moments in the calmer emotional and physical cove-waters. i was thankful that today brought a degree of this respite slish-sloshing upon my shores. i feel like crying now, but probably because i am so thankful for each and every one of you, so no worries on that one. other than that, some minor anxiety spikes, a bit of a headache, a little dizziness. but improved.

 

it's a good reminder to me, and maybe you too, that vast improvement can be made - but that doesn't mean healing is fully accomplished nor stable. more than two and a half years out from my cessation from benzos and into my ongoing taper of mirtazapine, withdrawal can still put the hurt on me solidly. i know i am moving in the right direction. the fact that i do things now that i could never do in accute withdrawal, or even while still fully on the drugs, is the evidence of that. but i still have some ways to go - some days that lay me low. it'll be a journey - the last 1.9mg, and then the days, weeks, months, years that follow that jump to nothing when it occurs. i try not to project too far out. i am scared. but i've been through a ton, so i have no choice but to march onward and put my best face on.

 

all right, i'll quit rambling here before i put you to sleep. hey wait, this is a site full of insomniacs! maybe i'm moving in the right direction - let me keep talking for awhile. i'll be better than any psychotropic you've ever taken :) all joking aside, thank you again. i appreciate you all immensely. everyone here is so worthy of great respect, admiration, peace. we've walked miles in the same shoes.

 

hang in there.

 

dave

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btdt

Just getting caught up on your thread 10 some very lovely posts thank you. 

You are an inspiration to many of use here.  Kindness and humor sure go a long way towards feeling human.  Just wanted you to know how much your are appreciated.  Love the insomnia joke since I have been doing the 4am sleep thing again it fits. 

What I have seen in the last stages of other peoples tapers...( I did not taper so can only speak to what I have seen in others) is a hold for a time maybe a couple of months to be sure you feet are solidly on the shore... in the cove before reducing.  I have also seen people do this for all the last doses and some have double insured with cutting the reduction below 5%. 

There was once this idea floated around wd sites for the cause for such needed changes near the end of the wd process... not sure it is valid again no research but it went like this:

 

As these drugs affect how our livers work ... larger doses of the drug cause the liver to not digest the drug as well as it does now.. after a slow taper that has allowed your liver to heal some... 

a better functioning liver and whamo a small amount of drug affects you like it could not have when you liver was not working as well because of the drug. 

 

Hope you have a great work out... wishing you peace. B

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ten0275

B, hey.

 

Thank you so very much for the lovely post. It has made my day. And I very much appreciate the tips and insights into low-dosing from someone who has read on the subject often. I will take all of those things into consideration.

 

You are appreciated!

 

Hang in there.

 

Dave

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btdt

Your welcome Dave you can read all the same things here likely but a lot of what I have read has been at other sites that are now gone. 

wish you ease of exit 

peace

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Fresh

I have a question for you Dave . . .   Do you find that "often" get a bug or a cold after you've done a decrease?     I'm reading this everywhere , people saying they have a virus or the flu , and I suspect it's part of WD.   Thoughts?

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ten0275

Fresh, hey.

 

Really interesting question. One of the things that is difficult with my withdrawal is that the Mirt has antihsistamine properties. And I do experience sneezing, coughing, headache, itching, and other symptoms that could be interpreted as true allergic responses or viral/bacterial infections. I think a lot of the non-psychological withdrawal symptoms from most of the drugs share qualities of those associated with infectious illness. That's why so many of us at first doubt withdrawal and try to find out what the heck is going on! However we do know that stress pounds the immune system, so it is certainly plausible that the immunity bombs-out and becomes host to whatever crud is going around when a cut is made. It's a great question. I'll think more on it.

 

Thanks for checking in and posing the idea!

 

Dave

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btdt

I have a question for you Dave . . .   Do you find that "often" get a bug or a cold after you've done a decrease?     I'm reading this everywhere , people saying they have a virus or the flu , and I suspect it's part of WD.   Thoughts?

I think it is wd flu.. I know you didn't ask me.. and I wonder about ssri affects on he immune system... some are post in obscure date in pub med ect..some are here...peace.

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Fresh

Me too btdt , thanks both of you  :)

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sunflower

Dear Dave,

 

Thank you for stopping by. So good to hear from a fellow survivor. Your words of encouragement were so beautifully expressed.

 

Hope you are doing well!

 

Sunflower

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Hopefull

Hi Dave,

 

Reading your post gives me hope. You really have gone through a lot, but the positiveness in your post is uplifting. I wish you all the best in your recovery. Cheers, Hopefull.

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ten0275

community, hello.

i was thinking this morning about the suffering that comes with withdrawal. it is something that has occupied my mind at intervals for nearly three years. prior to withdrawal, i generally questioned only the bigger ideas of how we suffer and why we suffer. though my life had been far from perfect, there had never been a true catalyst for the investigation of suffering until withdrawal unceremoniously crashed through my door and commenced to laying the hurt upon me.

while in acute withdrawal, i couldn't consider a topic like this. my brain was too damaged to know what season we were in or even who the president of the united states was at some moments. but as the heavy wet blanket began to lift and i could once again breathe, feel, and think, i started to consider what i had been through and what was still to come. i basically distilled it down to this:

the suffering is real. the suffering is relative.

suffering is seeded within everything we experience - both pleasurable and painful. from the sweet candy that at once tantalizes our taste buds while taunting the decaying tooth or sensitive tummy - to the wooden splinter lodged in the small of our finger, difficult to retrieve with tweezer-like implements - the suffering waits to unfold. suffering in many ways defines who we are as humans - but it is not necessarily a cause for sorrow. while suffering has the propensity to generate the strongest disdain in some cases, it quite often generates the strongest love in others. the perception of suffering on a heart-level humanizes us and brings technicolor to otherwise dulled perceptions.

in withdrawal, the suffering is so very real. it is the most basic and palpable type of suffering. it is the agony of our brains and bodies trying to find the equilibrium that the drugs have temporarily dismantled. from intrusive and disturbing thoughts, to brain zaps and crushing pain. from depression that settles in like a slow-moving tar tsunami, to the involuntary shaking and agoraphobia - the suffering of withdrawal comes in many forms. and it is very, very real.

i think it is immensely important that we recognize this without laying anything else upon it. to simply stop in the chaos of it all and say, "i am suffering and my suffering is real." by doing this, we honor what we are undergoing without obscuring it with how we came to this point in our lives, why we came to this point in our lives, what we might have done differently, and how we feel we are failing because of it. "i am suffering and my suffering is real." we owe this acknowledgment to ourselves for what we have been through and endure.

at the same time, it is important and empowering to recognize that our suffering is relative. i remember when i was in the deepest stages of acute withdrawal, there was a particular day that was very difficult for me. my suicidal ideation was speaking loudly, i had been vomiting profusely, and the muscles around my eyes were spasming. i was talking to a friend on the phone who was telling me of a woman we had gone to high school with. she had an inoperable brain tumor and was nearing the end of her life, only in her mid-30s. my friend had been telling me of her struggles. i was so very wrapped in my own suffering that i think i barely acknowledged what was being said to me, and immediately began rattling off my own list of hurt. my friend, know that my suffering was indeed real, gave me the space to do this. when i had finished, my friend paused and said, "you know, what you are going through is absolutely horrifying, dave. but the day you are having today would be one of her good days."

it took me a moment. several moments actually. i wasn't sure if my friend had somehow belittled/dismissed my suffering as unworthy, or what had happened. but then i realized that isn't what was being taught to me at all. my friend had simply shown me that my suffering was relative. that my very worst day might very well be an improvement for someone else - that a day in which i felt the darkness of agony might be a day of carefree respite for someone in a state beyond mine. basically, that for all of my suffering, someone probably had it worse. and when framed in this way, the compassion generated for that other person by default brought me a sense of warmth and relief. i think this is so important to remember.

this web site is all about acknowledging the relativity of our own suffering, as we all find ourselves in varying degrees of pain. isn't the compassion displayed on this site evidence of this fact?! it is amazing and beautiful.

in many ways, i feel i am probably telling you what you already know. but for myself at least, it is a good reminder and i find that if i can look back here and read this in a week, a month, a year - it might just be the perspective i need in whatever moment brings me to it.

the suffering is real. the suffering is relative.

if you have read this far, i thank you. you are all immeasurably strong no matter how you feel right now. and healing will come for you.

hang in there.

dave

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Pugknows

Wow, Dave. Well said.

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btdt

I should not come on your thread and disagree with you.. so I won't but I do wonder how your friend knows this:

 "you know, what you are going through is absolutely horrifying, dave. but the day you are having today would be one of her good days."

 

Having had people try to point something like this out to me was a waste of their time. I could not take it in at all.  I also felt belittled and knew they did not understand where I was coming from at all.  You and I are completely different and maybe our wd were too.  I know one thing if there were some state worse than where I had been in wd I doubt I could survive it. As I would not have taken much more and still surprised how much I did survive. 

 

​What is comforting to you in some way is aggravating minimizing and dismissive to me so I think I will unfollow your thread.  To each his own.. this is your path I can't identify with it and no longer wish to participate. 

I do however wish you peace

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Bayboy

Hey Dave,

 

Just checking in on you?  How have you been doing?

 

BB

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Ever

Dave - much food for thought!   Your post will stay with me on any bad days to come and will help to put things into better perspective for me.   Thankyou!

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Athena

Hello Dave!

 

I have read through your thread- not all of it, forgive me my concentration in English is still very decreased- but enough to know that you have come a long way. Your improvement is wonderful. I hope you are feeling well these days, I read your last cut wasn't easy, even if you took care to make it small. I also often regret it after making a cut, so I try to insist myself on the learning: slower next time!! Each cut is a learning experience.

 

I found your last post very interesting. I like how you are able to reflect on the suffering we are all going through. I am not very good at that for the moment. Like most of us here, there has been so much suffering before the AD withdrawal, so this painful WD process is like a drop too many. You must have done a lot of work about acceptance to be able to do that, and that is admirable. I am in the middle of that process, with yoga and its philosophie to help me. I am in a place where I viscerally need to concentrate on what is good, on what I have, and on what I can do. When I try reasoning about the suffering we are going through, there is so much anger and sadness that comes up. I always have been a sensitive person, so I think it is less painful for me to physically do something- yoga, walk outside, whatever. Maybe one day I'll get to thinking calmly about it!!

 

You have written in one of your posts that one of -if not THE most difficult thing for you about WD ADs is the lack of understanding and support from the people in your life. That is so true for me as well. For most of my adult life, I have very much cared and been there for the people in my life- maybe some times too much or too insistent, I'm not sure. But it makes me sad each time I notice a friend is not there for me. It can be in the forms of an unsaid judgement that I can feel, their lack of interest in my "condition" , and the lack of just simple encouragement. That brings me to the relativeness of suffering that you talk about. Of course I am there for my friend who lost her Mom, and I don't judge her if her mourning lasts in time. Of course I am there for a friend who has a sick child, lives a separation or has big health issues. Those are identifiable sufferings, that people can easily label. Our suffering is as hurtful, but unrecognized. For me, that is what's the most difficult about all this. Apart from this beautiful place here, we rarely get a tap on the back that means "You're doing great, you are strong, keep going."

 

BUT we surely can appreciate way more the few people who are doing it. And those will be cherished in our life forever.

 

Let me do it for you today. Keep going Dave, you are almost there, you've done amazing work!!! And you still do with your unifying posts.

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ten0275

hello all,

i'm just stopping in here for a moment. i've had sort of an intense last few days, so i've be away from technology and am just now having some time to catch up.

i wanted to take a moment to thank those of you who took the time to read my prior post, and also to those who replied to it. it means a lot that you give attention, particularly when you are in the midst of your own suffering and attention to anything is a hard-won asset in short-supply.

pugknows, it is always great to see what is happening with you and i thank you for being around and being such a supportive member on the site. you are quick to lend a boost to those in need when you can do it. and when the intensity rains down on you, you open your heart to both giving and receiving care. very strong.

btdt, i'm sorry my post caused you any suffering or emotional upheaval. of course that would never be my intention. i respect what you had to say in response and realize that my particular reaction to the described situation was my personal way of metabolizing and responding, and is not at all reflective of how others should, or would, respond. thanks for taking the time to read the thing and for responding honestly to it. i can understand why you would want to discontinue reading what i write. i've read that you've been having a rough go of late. hang in there. i am sorry you are hurting.

ever, i am always thankful when you check in. i absolutely love the photo you use as your avatar. that alone gives me pause to smile. thank you for reading what i write and for caring. for your warmth, and also your sense of humor.

 

bayboy, thanks for checking in.

athena, you fairly blew me away with your long and thoughtful response. i will tell you that i did shed some tears while reading it. i feel that you took great care in thinking about it and crafting your response and that means a ton to me. i try to craft unifying posts, thank you for recognizing that. perhaps my last post fell short as i touched some nerves that we all most certainly have found exposed at some point in our experience. your "tap on the back" could not have come at a better time and i really can't find words to express the gratitude i feel any further. thank you, friend.

hang in there everyone. and may healing be yours.

dave

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Purplestars22

Dave thanks for your previous post, it is moving and makes me look at suffering in a different way.

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ten0275

Purplestars22, hey.

 

Thank you for checking in, for taking the time to read me, and for your words. It means a lot to me, truly.

 

May you and all of us be free from suffering and the causes of suffering soon.

 

Hang in there.

 

Dave

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Athena

I'm glad it helped my friend :)

I have all those ideas in my head, some related to what we talked about, some not, and I never do anything with them. Your post just game me the push to put them in writings!

How are you feeling today?

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ten0275

Athena, hey.

 

Very cool that I could give you that little push to write - because you obviously have a ton of valuable things to say! In that sense, I contributed to the greater good - write on!

 

Today, I'm feeling rather good. Yesterday was an oddly tough day - but today, right from the start, things just felt right. It might have been the very good coffee this morning. Or maybe it is that it is friday. Or perhaps it's that the sun is shining, despite it being deplorably cold. Not sure which part of Canada you are in, but if you are in the central to east part, then you know what I am talking about with the cold - because it is that polar vortex that is coming out of the arctic, passing over you all, and laying the cold on us heavy. We are due a divine summer!

 

How are you? I am curious, what kind of yoga are you able to do at this point? Do you actually do postures?

 

Thanks for taking the time to check in, it means a ton.

 

Hang in there.

 

Dave

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LoveandLight

Glad today is good :)

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Athena

Very glad too that today is good!

 

Coffeeeee... Definitely one of my life's pleasure too! I must limit it to one or two per day, but oh do I savor each cup! :) The beautiful sun is here too but the cold, oh boy... Here in Quebec, the temperature has been moving around -20 celcius since November now, I mean we are used to tough winters but this year has been really something!! Might be, apart from the obvious reason we know, another one why I am so exhausted. (sigh) So yes, can't wait for friendlier temperatures, lets start with a nice spring! ;) Being able to just breathe some air that is close to the body's temperature... Aaahhh!!!

 

Yes I do some yoga postures, the easy ones that don't require a lot of strength or stamina, and I do the hatha type, staying longer in each posture. I do the breathing exercices and meditation as well. I have registered to a site where for about 9$ a month I have access to hundreds of yoga videos, so each day I can choose one that meets my needs of the day and even help for some symptoms- insomnia, digestion, etc. I love it!

 

Thanks for appreciating me writing. English being my second language I guess I get a little shy of making mistakes or of saying something that would sound like something I don't really mean... Also because I feel my brain so foggy and often can't find the right words. Maybe it feels worse to me than it really is, and your encouragement means a lot to me!

 

Take good care Dave,

 

Athena

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