mustangwoman Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 I haven't been on this page for a while, though I have continued to read through others' pages when I can. I had a lot of external stressors over the past year with the worst being work, but I won't go into all of that now. Three teenage children continues to be both a challenge and a blessing. At this extremely low dose reductions are very difficult. With the actual weight of my dose only being 5 and the limitation of the scales. The smallest amount I can drop at one time is an actual weight of 1. I plan to stay at this dose for several months. I have had some boughts of being down, but I feel like much of this can be tied to the hopelessness and unfairness of the job situation I am in, however my job situation is to change soon, hopefully within a month. I have a new job lined up, but have to wait for all of the paper work to go through before I can begin. I wish you all happiness, and as always am glad that I get to shard this journey with you wonderful folks. zoloft 2004-08 tapered too fast(2 weeks) Luvox 5/08 100 mg 07/10 40mg via small reductions, 08/10 39mg, 09/10 38mg, 10/10 37mg, 11/10 36mg,2/11 35mg, 5/11 34mg, 8/11 33mg, 11/11 32mg, 01/12 31mg, 03/12 30mg, 4/12 29mg, 5/12 28 mg, 8/12 27 mg, 11/12 26 mg, 1/13 25 mg, 3/13 24 mg, 4/13 23 mg,6/13 22 mg, 7/13 21 mg, 8/13 20mg, 10/13 19 mg, 11/13 18 mg, 12/13 17 mg, 1/14 16 mg, 3/14 13 mg, 9/14 10.9 mg, 1/15 10 mg, 3/15 9 mg, 5/15 8 mg. 11/15 7.12 mg. 4/16 5 mg, 6/16 4.5 mg, 9/16 4.2 mg, 1/17 3.48 mg, 2/17 3.2 mg, 4/17 2.2 mg, 5/17 2.0 mg, 6/17 1.74 mg, 7/17 1.58 mg, 9/17 1.27 mg, 11/17 1.0 mg, 1/18 0.79 mg Link to comment
Moderator brassmonkey Posted January 17, 2018 Moderator Share Posted January 17, 2018 Hi Mustang-- it's so good to hear from you. Hopefully the new work situation will help cut the stress level. Best of luck with it. Those tiny last few doses were a total pain in the ..... I ended up visually cutting mine because of the limitations of the scales. Not the most accurate but it worked. Take your time even though the finish line is so close. And remember that it doesn't end at "0". There will still be some recovery to be done after making the jump. Having done a careful taper the transition should be pretty smooth though. ((((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))))))) Brass 20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013. Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks. The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better. Final Dose 0.016mg. Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017 "It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general." Stephen Hawking Link to comment
NobodySpecial Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Hey @mustangwoman, I find reading through other people's pages really reassuring as well. What could I (and the forum) do to best support you through this withdrawal process? Here's a resource that I found useful if it's hard to take supplements because of the response they trigger. It's a list of foods and inflammation responses, so you can make choices that are most beneficial to cooling down an overworked nervous system - https://www.selfhacked.com/blog/assigning-inflammation-scores-foods/ Taper commencing 14/06/18: Going down by 2.5mg per month from 35mg - once 2.5mg is bigger than the recommended 10%, I'll switch to a water solution. Planning to taper until October and then hold until 2019 - balancing study, work, life and holiday season. Medication / withdrawal history: Tapered July 2016 to October 2016, unsuccessful and reinstated to 30mg (didn't track specifics) Tapered March 2017 to August 2017, was unsuccessful and reinstated to 35mg (didn't track specifics). Current taper - started 1st January 2018 @ 32.5mg and 2.5mg per month until I reach a dose where 2.5 is > 10% of dose. Morning supplements: B complex, Niagen, COQ10, Black seed oil, Vitamin C, Zinc, Fish Oil, EGCG, Bosweilla Extract, Curcumin (Longvida), Vitamin D, R-ALA, NAC, Ashwagandha (occasionally), Epimedium / Icariin, Resveratol. Evening supplements: NatureCalm Magnesium, Glycine, Ashwagandha, Reishi, Schisandra, Melatonin. I also take Phenibut (maximum 3 times weekly at a dose that doesn't build tolerance) and Oleamide when required. Link to comment
mustangwoman Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 Thank you for visiting Tom and Special. Thank you for the kind words and truths and the inflammation info. zoloft 2004-08 tapered too fast(2 weeks) Luvox 5/08 100 mg 07/10 40mg via small reductions, 08/10 39mg, 09/10 38mg, 10/10 37mg, 11/10 36mg,2/11 35mg, 5/11 34mg, 8/11 33mg, 11/11 32mg, 01/12 31mg, 03/12 30mg, 4/12 29mg, 5/12 28 mg, 8/12 27 mg, 11/12 26 mg, 1/13 25 mg, 3/13 24 mg, 4/13 23 mg,6/13 22 mg, 7/13 21 mg, 8/13 20mg, 10/13 19 mg, 11/13 18 mg, 12/13 17 mg, 1/14 16 mg, 3/14 13 mg, 9/14 10.9 mg, 1/15 10 mg, 3/15 9 mg, 5/15 8 mg. 11/15 7.12 mg. 4/16 5 mg, 6/16 4.5 mg, 9/16 4.2 mg, 1/17 3.48 mg, 2/17 3.2 mg, 4/17 2.2 mg, 5/17 2.0 mg, 6/17 1.74 mg, 7/17 1.58 mg, 9/17 1.27 mg, 11/17 1.0 mg, 1/18 0.79 mg Link to comment
nz11 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Greetings from me too Mustangwoman All the best for 2018. You are doing so well with that taper. Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing. http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651 Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos. Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you Recovering paxil addict None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." Dr Mosher. Me too! Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015 I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015 Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017 Link to comment
mustangwoman Posted February 21, 2018 Author Share Posted February 21, 2018 Thanks nz11! zoloft 2004-08 tapered too fast(2 weeks) Luvox 5/08 100 mg 07/10 40mg via small reductions, 08/10 39mg, 09/10 38mg, 10/10 37mg, 11/10 36mg,2/11 35mg, 5/11 34mg, 8/11 33mg, 11/11 32mg, 01/12 31mg, 03/12 30mg, 4/12 29mg, 5/12 28 mg, 8/12 27 mg, 11/12 26 mg, 1/13 25 mg, 3/13 24 mg, 4/13 23 mg,6/13 22 mg, 7/13 21 mg, 8/13 20mg, 10/13 19 mg, 11/13 18 mg, 12/13 17 mg, 1/14 16 mg, 3/14 13 mg, 9/14 10.9 mg, 1/15 10 mg, 3/15 9 mg, 5/15 8 mg. 11/15 7.12 mg. 4/16 5 mg, 6/16 4.5 mg, 9/16 4.2 mg, 1/17 3.48 mg, 2/17 3.2 mg, 4/17 2.2 mg, 5/17 2.0 mg, 6/17 1.74 mg, 7/17 1.58 mg, 9/17 1.27 mg, 11/17 1.0 mg, 1/18 0.79 mg Link to comment
mustangwoman Posted March 3, 2018 Author Share Posted March 3, 2018 Please help!! I know this isn't going to make a lot of sense to most of you. I am on luvox which has a lot of drug and food interactions. About 5 weeks ago my husband and I bought a big crate of grass fed beef and free range raised chickens. For the last month I have really felt weird, rages, anhedonia. Stuff I haven't experienced much during my withdrawal. Well I stopped the beef and chicken. And I have been reacted crazy to my medicine. I have akathesia, SI, agitation, anxiety, extremely terrified, in HELL. The SI and panic are terrifying. We found out that grass fed beef and free range chickens are extremely high in vitamin K2 which significantly decreases my dose, possibly enough to make it nothing. I don't know if these are regular start up side effects, but I am terrified and don't know what to do. zoloft 2004-08 tapered too fast(2 weeks) Luvox 5/08 100 mg 07/10 40mg via small reductions, 08/10 39mg, 09/10 38mg, 10/10 37mg, 11/10 36mg,2/11 35mg, 5/11 34mg, 8/11 33mg, 11/11 32mg, 01/12 31mg, 03/12 30mg, 4/12 29mg, 5/12 28 mg, 8/12 27 mg, 11/12 26 mg, 1/13 25 mg, 3/13 24 mg, 4/13 23 mg,6/13 22 mg, 7/13 21 mg, 8/13 20mg, 10/13 19 mg, 11/13 18 mg, 12/13 17 mg, 1/14 16 mg, 3/14 13 mg, 9/14 10.9 mg, 1/15 10 mg, 3/15 9 mg, 5/15 8 mg. 11/15 7.12 mg. 4/16 5 mg, 6/16 4.5 mg, 9/16 4.2 mg, 1/17 3.48 mg, 2/17 3.2 mg, 4/17 2.2 mg, 5/17 2.0 mg, 6/17 1.74 mg, 7/17 1.58 mg, 9/17 1.27 mg, 11/17 1.0 mg, 1/18 0.79 mg Link to comment
AliG Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 MW ~ I wouldn't react to this, as I don't necessarily think it adds up ~ you say , you stopped and then got crazy. Is it the stopping or the starting ? I don't think the K2 is enough to warrant that sort of change~ we need the K2. Either way ~ I would experiment to see what you think is causing this ~ and then accommodate as you see fit. You have been very slow and steady in your taper, and I would continue on... with that. Stay steady and stick with the program ... Many SSRI's and SSNRI's over 20 years. Zoloft for 7 years followed by Effexor, Lexapro, Prozac, Cymbalta, Celexa, Pristiq, Valdoxan, Mianserin and more - on and off. No tapering. Cold turkey off Valdoxan - end of May 2014 Psych Drug - free since May 2014 . Link to comment
Moderator brassmonkey Posted March 3, 2018 Moderator Share Posted March 3, 2018 Hi Mustangwoman- I'm so sorry to hear that you're suddenly having so much trouble, but I think we can get a handle on it and get you back on track. There are several studies that do indeed show that vitamin K2 will inhibit the effectiveness of ADs. They were working directly with the supplements, but a vitamin is a vitamin no matter where you get it. It looks like a reduction in the "better meat" should help that part of the equation. There seems to be something else in play here though. What you describe is the sudden onset of symptoms that would happen from a too fast taper. I looked through your signature and there it was. Starting with your decrease in April of last year your reductions have ranged from 20 to 30 percent each time. At the time it may have felt okay, as I know you listen to your body and work your holds accordingly. The problem is what's happening in the background. All the unfinished business from each drop keeps adding up and adding up until the stack of papers gets too tall and falls over. Combine that with the vitamin K and you'll have a problem. It is very important at the lower doses to go as slowly as at the larger doses, even more so. It gets very frustrating because the end is so close yet you have to keep pushing it out and pushing it out. There are a couple of things that can be done. First cut back on the "better meat" to reduce the effects of the vitamin K2. That will leave two options for dealing with the drug itself; ride it out or updose. Riding it out will be rather painful and disruptive and there is no way of telling exactly how long it will take. It could be a few weeks to stabilize, but I'm guessing several months. It also will probably leave you more sensitive to further reductions. Updosing more than likely will help reduce your symptoms. But there is a chance that it won't work either. It's been over a month since your last reduction and three months from the one before that. That is a long time to delay an updose, which rules out going back up all the way to 1mgai. A small updose to 0.85mgai would be a good place to start. There could be some relief from the symptoms as soon as the next day, but it could take several weeks for things to really stabilize. Once things are stable a good long hold is in order to let all that background business settle out and then you could continue your taper. Please remember that all the things you're feeling are just manifestations of the drug, and as unpleasant as they are they can't hurt you. Given time they will go away on their own. It can be very disheartening to be hit with such a wave after doing a very diligent taper, but it's just a bridge that has to be crossed so the journey can continue. ((((((((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))) Brass 20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013. Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks. The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better. Final Dose 0.016mg. Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017 "It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general." Stephen Hawking Link to comment
AliG Posted March 3, 2018 Share Posted March 3, 2018 (edited) MW. Tom is right ~ a small updose may help.What are your thoughts? Edited March 4, 2018 by AliG Many SSRI's and SSNRI's over 20 years. Zoloft for 7 years followed by Effexor, Lexapro, Prozac, Cymbalta, Celexa, Pristiq, Valdoxan, Mianserin and more - on and off. No tapering. Cold turkey off Valdoxan - end of May 2014 Psych Drug - free since May 2014 . Link to comment
mustangwoman Posted March 3, 2018 Author Share Posted March 3, 2018 I am concerned about the very short half life of Luvox that it may be much worse It is about a 13 hour half life zoloft 2004-08 tapered too fast(2 weeks) Luvox 5/08 100 mg 07/10 40mg via small reductions, 08/10 39mg, 09/10 38mg, 10/10 37mg, 11/10 36mg,2/11 35mg, 5/11 34mg, 8/11 33mg, 11/11 32mg, 01/12 31mg, 03/12 30mg, 4/12 29mg, 5/12 28 mg, 8/12 27 mg, 11/12 26 mg, 1/13 25 mg, 3/13 24 mg, 4/13 23 mg,6/13 22 mg, 7/13 21 mg, 8/13 20mg, 10/13 19 mg, 11/13 18 mg, 12/13 17 mg, 1/14 16 mg, 3/14 13 mg, 9/14 10.9 mg, 1/15 10 mg, 3/15 9 mg, 5/15 8 mg. 11/15 7.12 mg. 4/16 5 mg, 6/16 4.5 mg, 9/16 4.2 mg, 1/17 3.48 mg, 2/17 3.2 mg, 4/17 2.2 mg, 5/17 2.0 mg, 6/17 1.74 mg, 7/17 1.58 mg, 9/17 1.27 mg, 11/17 1.0 mg, 1/18 0.79 mg Link to comment
mustangwoman Posted March 4, 2018 Author Share Posted March 4, 2018 Thanks Tom and AliG. A little history with Luvox that might help others on it. Luvox is metabolized in a large part by CYP1A2. I first found that out during a trip to the ER the first year on the med after having a caffeine drink, I almost had caffeine intoxication. Anyone interested can look at research, for example https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8807660 Since then I have found many other items that either inhibit or induce cyp1a2 affecting my Luvox dose up or down. The lower the dose the more I feel the effect. A partial list, almost anything with antioxidants or carcinogenic. Blueberries, blackberries, smoked meat, meat cooked at high temps, cabbage, cauliflower, smoke, cement ( breathing the powder form or touching wet cement, bacon, squash, etc. Even supplements, I already had a previous experience with k2, turmeric, vitamins, iron, etc. I have to be very careful introducing anything new. I had already eaten a lot of hamburger patties though, for months without any issues, so I didn't think about k2 in grass feed beef. I can eat a cup of blueberries and feel sedated as it increases my dose. Those big drops were from those situations, dropping my dose after taking say finishing an antibiotic interacting with my med (as the antibiotic caused a drop to start with). Tom you may be correct, the big drops over a year finally caught up. I initially thought it was side effects from going up (following the drop) because I felt very 'bright' right after taking a dose (after stopping the meet). Maybe it was just withdrawal catching up to me from the drop. zoloft 2004-08 tapered too fast(2 weeks) Luvox 5/08 100 mg 07/10 40mg via small reductions, 08/10 39mg, 09/10 38mg, 10/10 37mg, 11/10 36mg,2/11 35mg, 5/11 34mg, 8/11 33mg, 11/11 32mg, 01/12 31mg, 03/12 30mg, 4/12 29mg, 5/12 28 mg, 8/12 27 mg, 11/12 26 mg, 1/13 25 mg, 3/13 24 mg, 4/13 23 mg,6/13 22 mg, 7/13 21 mg, 8/13 20mg, 10/13 19 mg, 11/13 18 mg, 12/13 17 mg, 1/14 16 mg, 3/14 13 mg, 9/14 10.9 mg, 1/15 10 mg, 3/15 9 mg, 5/15 8 mg. 11/15 7.12 mg. 4/16 5 mg, 6/16 4.5 mg, 9/16 4.2 mg, 1/17 3.48 mg, 2/17 3.2 mg, 4/17 2.2 mg, 5/17 2.0 mg, 6/17 1.74 mg, 7/17 1.58 mg, 9/17 1.27 mg, 11/17 1.0 mg, 1/18 0.79 mg Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted March 4, 2018 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 4, 2018 Hi mustangwoman, Would you please post the above information in the tips-for-tapering-off-luvox-fluvoxamine? Thank you. * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
mustangwoman Posted April 8, 2018 Author Share Posted April 8, 2018 I have a question for a close work mate. She was given 50 mg of Trazadone for insomnia. She took it 8 days and didn't like the way it made her feel like a zombie, and finding out that it was an antidepressant she didn't want to take it anymore. So her pharmacist told her to half it, but then she got terrible symptoms. looking online apparently you can get withdrawal with just a short time on Trazadone. Her doctor told her there would be no withdrawal (of course). How should she proceed? She is suffering from brain zaps crying jags, severe anxiety, and worsened depression, and rebound insomnia. Thanks in advance. zoloft 2004-08 tapered too fast(2 weeks) Luvox 5/08 100 mg 07/10 40mg via small reductions, 08/10 39mg, 09/10 38mg, 10/10 37mg, 11/10 36mg,2/11 35mg, 5/11 34mg, 8/11 33mg, 11/11 32mg, 01/12 31mg, 03/12 30mg, 4/12 29mg, 5/12 28 mg, 8/12 27 mg, 11/12 26 mg, 1/13 25 mg, 3/13 24 mg, 4/13 23 mg,6/13 22 mg, 7/13 21 mg, 8/13 20mg, 10/13 19 mg, 11/13 18 mg, 12/13 17 mg, 1/14 16 mg, 3/14 13 mg, 9/14 10.9 mg, 1/15 10 mg, 3/15 9 mg, 5/15 8 mg. 11/15 7.12 mg. 4/16 5 mg, 6/16 4.5 mg, 9/16 4.2 mg, 1/17 3.48 mg, 2/17 3.2 mg, 4/17 2.2 mg, 5/17 2.0 mg, 6/17 1.74 mg, 7/17 1.58 mg, 9/17 1.27 mg, 11/17 1.0 mg, 1/18 0.79 mg Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted April 8, 2018 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted April 8, 2018 9 minutes ago, mustangwoman said: close work mate I would suggest she joins SA. This is for a couple of reasons. It is less stressful for you, and you have your own issues to handle so you don't need additional stress or the responsibility if things don't go "right". Also, there may be other things which you don't know about, eg previous drug history, or other drugs she is on. She will also get the combined "wisdom" of the mods and members here. * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
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