☼ OffEFFexor: hello everybody

[Fresh]

Hi OffEffexor ,     I'm having my own little miracle from my Sota Bio Tuner.    Are you still considering

trying CES therapy?

 

How have you been doing lately?

 

Fresh

[OffEFFexor]

Hey, thanks for the posts on my thread.  I am doing badly; many days in the last two weeks have been dark and dismal.  I'm trying to hold on day by day, hour by hour. 

 

I don't even feel like recounting the details, but lots of crying, worsening headache and tinnitus, feeling drained and worn down by the seven month ordeal.  I do get breaks for several hours at a time when I don't feel horrible. 

 

I haven't tried the CES yet.  I gotta try something soon. 

[OffEFFexor]

I skimmed over my thread, to recount some of the ups and downs. The last two weeks seem worse than I've had for several months.  I don't think I've had a single full day of feeling good since early April, although I am trying to feel gratitude for the several hours at a time of relief that I do enjoy.  No change in my routine that I can identify.  Hopefully just another example of the non-linear nature of recovering from AD CT. 

 

I've complained before about being fatigued and worn out from the long process.  But this fatigue and frustration is much worse now.  I also complained about a depressed mood earlier; I don't feel depressed except when I am having a crying jag.  And most of these days, I just cry and cry.  The mood is frustration so much more than depression.  I am having difficulty holding a sense of hope and an attitude of courage.  I feel desperation and fear instead.  The whole thing is so strange, so bizarre, I am at a loss for words as well as so unsure if I should continue to hold out, or if I should try something drastic. 

 

I'm just trying to vent some of the stuff from my (malfunctioning) mind onto the page/screen. 

[btdt]

I would not do anything drastic... desperation that lends it self to impulsive action tends to burn me every time... generally that has been taking a supplement. 

I am not sure what the supplements you take would cause if any of this I know for myself B6 makes me so depressed I can't lift my head but your not taking it. 

Seems I am talking about me and the reason is I would not want to suggest anything I have not done... so when I was in that sort of mood or state... I stopped fighting it.. let it come let it go... and it did come and go. For myself there was no other option I could see did all my self help things used up my tool box I hope your doing those things to see yourself thru. 

I wish you peace.

[OffEFFexor]

Thanks, btdt.  While drastic alternatives occur to me, I doubt I will actually do anything drastic.  And I am not speaking about suicide.  Thank goodness, despite moments (and hours) of desperation, I have not been suicidal during this wave.  Another of the bizarre aspects; back in January/February I did have some significant suicidal ideation, which is absent now.

 

I'm down to considering three actions right now, only one of those 'drastic':  reinstatement (probably prozac), the drastic choice; trying the Cranial Electrical Stimulation device; and just continuing through, holding on best I can until it gets better, on my current supplement package which has not changed in months, trying to do as much meditation and exercise as I can.  This just sucks.

[mustangwoman]

So very sorry that your journey has been more difficult these last couple weeks.  I don't know what would be the best, however I am so glad the suicidal ideation is gone.  After my cold turkey 9 years ago, (before reinstatement, and knowing withdrawal was causing my problems) that was the most terrifying symptom for me.  I celebrate this with you because, while you are not where you want to be, thank God you are not where you were. 

[OffEFFexor]

Thanks mustangwoman.  I caught a huge break today, the wave receded and the symptoms were 10% of the intensity of the last couple of days.  I'm grateful for the relief, just in time.

[btdt]

Thanks, btdt.  While drastic alternatives occur to me, I doubt I will actually do anything drastic.  And I am not speaking about suicide.  Thank goodness, despite moments (and hours) of desperation, I have not been suicidal during this wave.  Another of the bizarre aspects; back in January/February I did have some significant suicidal ideation, which is absent now.

 

I'm down to considering three actions right now, only one of those 'drastic':  reinstatement (probably prozac), the drastic choice; trying the Cranial Electrical Stimulation device; and just continuing through, holding on best I can until it gets better, on my current supplement package which has not changed in months, trying to do as much meditation and exercise as I can.  This just sucks.

 

Our individual perspectives are all relative to our own personal experience in wd lol... drastic for me was taking a liquid vit B solution recommended by my health food store owner.

I had extreme fatigue told him all that was going on took his recommendation... and it actually worked... and then it turned ugly on me... and make me suffer about 6 wks.  

To me drastic depends on what the effects of the change will be not the change ... while other may have to take a mixture of speed and cocaine to get what I got from a bottle of liquid vit B... it is all relative to our experience it is the result that is drastic not the action or should I say reaction since it is so unexpected. 

Looking at the supplements your taking scares the crap out of me... see all relative

 

I don't know enough about supplements to make any suggestions really... I react to a lot of them badly including Vit D... ephedrine... you are taking ephedrine my heavens we are so different. yep this list is way beyond my understanding... since wd I react... to a lot. People laugh at me taking child size gravol and 1/4 of a tylenol #3 but this is how sensitive I am now.

[OffEFFexor]

I am fortunate that I am not overly sensitive to foods or supplements.  During withdrawal I have occasionally reacted badly to something (tryptophan I took once back several months ago, and it was activating.)  My lineup of supplements has been very stable during these months.  The other night I forgot to take benadryl at bedtime, and slept fine. 

 

And pseudoephedrine is quite different than ephedrine; it is always impressive to me how such similar molecules can have such drastically different effects.  Ephedrine is something I use in surgery, it causes profound vasoconstriction, increase in heart rate and in heart power (contractility) while pseudoephedrine, basically a mirror-image molecule, in the same dose would have no visible effect on the patient.  

[brassmonkey]

Finally someone who knows the difference.  I've been shouting into the wind all my life about this (not just Ephedrine/pseudophed). The one thing I really came out of organic chemistry class with was "if the molecule is not identical then it is totally different".  I hear it all too often, especially where drugs are concerned, "oh the molecules are so similar they have to have the same affect." Makes me nuts.

[naturegirl]

OffeFFexor,

 

I am suffering through prolonged withdrawal from effexor as well. I noticed that you are a doctor, as am I. Have you been able to keep working throughout all of this? I have been finding it nearly impossible, and just this morning drafted a resignation letter. I have been at my current clinic for over 7 years and have a large client base, so this is really hard and sad for me. I took a leave about 6 months ago when I was going through a really rough patch, and I don't want to keep going on leave after leave. I'm thinking it's better to just resign, take some time off, and when I feel better get a new job (maybe part-time, at a lower volume practice and if/when I feel stable for a very long time, can go up in hours from there). I'm a bit concerned about money, but my husband has a good job, so we should be okay for awhile...I was just wondering how you've been handling the work aspect of things?

[OffEFFexor]

I had some very difficult days about a week ago, about three or four, then back to the roller coaster of up and down days.  Yesterday, a wonderful clear window.  Probably the best day since the delayed withdrawal started in September.  Completely clear headed, normal energy level, no tinnitus.  This actually started a couple of hours before bedtime Tuesday night, and lasted about 18 hours.

 

Then today back to the hell of withdrawal.

 

Such a clear window is double edged.  I was joyful and grateful for the respite; I am encouraged by being able to experience what normal feels like after so long; I am optimistic that at some time in the future the way I felt yesterday will be the way I feel every day, even if that future time is still months away.

 

OTOH, the symptoms reappeared in the late afternoon, very mild at first, but hour by hour they got stronger.  The frustration of feeling my window fade away was so powerful.  The frustration of being back in the company of headache, brain fog, tinnitus and low energy all day today is huge.

 

The intensity of my symptoms today (and most days) is significantly less than the typical day two or three months ago.  But the contrast of today with yesterday is so stark, it is another drain on my patience. 

 

Last week there were a couple of things that helped me.  Blubalu86 posted a couple of links on Muddles' thread:

 

http://www.nosuffering.com/nosuffering/explain.shtml

http://www.grandtimes.com/Transforming_Illness.html

 

The first was a nice essay on acceptance and suffering vs pain which helped me through a particularly intense headache and brain fog spell last Friday.  The other is a piece by the author of The Power of Now, Eckhart Tolle.

 

btdt had enthusiastically recommended The Power of Now a few weeks ago, but I had only read a few pages. I returned to it Friday, and it really resonated with me.  I have been trying to apply his ideas about mindfulness and living in the moment, and it has also helped me over the last few days.  I'm only halfway through it so far, but I like his approach.

 

What a ride.  Overall I am doing better than I was two or three months ago.  I'm grateful for the hours and days of feeling ok, and for the day of relief yesterday.  My worst day of the last month was probably an average day from February.  And so many other folks are suffering so much worse than me.  But I am still sick, and I am trying to buckle in for another several weeks of this. 

[mustangwoman]

I am sorry that you are suffering, but glad that you can see some improvements over time.  My guess is that this trend should continue, seeing improvements over time, and that one day this will be a vague memory, and you will say "I can't believe I used to feel that way".  Hugs friend.

[OffEFFexor]

The last week and a half have been difficult in different ways.  I have been more consistently depressed, some days just crying all day long. My sleep has been horrible, much worse than any other stretch of the now eight months of prolonged delayed withdrawal.  Some nights zero to only a couple of hours of sleep.  I've been weaker and have had lower energy.  Plus on occasion I get other scattered symptoms that only last a few minutes or hours, like burning parathesias, spots of numbness on the skin, or flushing/sweating.  Worst, my sense of frustration, that I cannot go on much longer, is peaked.  I feel like my patience is gone, although I see no alternative to sticking it out.

 

That is the bad news.  Good news, definite signs of healing and improvement.  The headache and tinnitus are much less severe, and can disappear for many hours at a time.  I have much less brain fog; my overall cognition is much better than before, the uncontrolled racing thoughts are now rare (except on the nights I can't sleep.) 

 

I feel like I am regaining control of my cognitive brain, while my mood/emotions are being controlled more often by depression.  If it isn't one thing, it's another.   I don't know if this is 'neuroemotion'; it feels like a reflection of my frustration and impatience with this long process.  Last thing I am going to do to treat it is take a damn pill.

 

I have been meditating, and working hard at both keeping my mind in the moment, and at acceptance of my symptoms and my condition.  This seems to help.

 

I am really happy and grateful at the clearing of the brain fog and at my much improved cognition.  It has been gradual, it wasn't all of a sudden one day my head was clear and back to normal.  And I still have periods of an hour or two when I feel horrible and all the symptoms are raging.  The depressed mood is not constant, it waxes and wanes for hours at a time, and at least I am familiar with depression, even though it as been a long time since I've had to weather it.  This sucks, and it is frequently changing in the way it sucks, but I think it is getting better, definite signs of improvement.

[mustangwoman]

You are having quite the journey.  I am thankful for the positives and that the depression is not constant.  So thankful for the definite signs of improvement.  Sending you peace, hope, and healing vibes.

[OffEFFexor]

Thank you for the kind wishes, mw.  Much appreciated.

[OffEFFexor]

Around three weeks ago, my broken but healing brain seemed to switch out one set of symptoms for another set. Headache, tinnitus and brain fog/cognitive impairment lifted significantly.  In their place, deep depression and significant insomnia.  Crying for hours at a time, some nights sleeping ok but others less than an hour of sleep.  I also have some subtle but significant depersonalization/derealization thoughts and episodes.

 

Some days I feel fantastic, as close to normal as I have felt in nine months.  Clear headed, normal appropriate emotions, and no symptoms. But that doesn't last more than a day, then it is back to crying, depressed, wishing I was dead.  So strange to swing from one state to another over a few hours.  Like I have gotten on a new roller coaster, with different dips and rises than the old one.

 

The glimpses of normal feeling give me incredible encouragement that I am getting better, and that at some point in the future I will feel healthy and normal most of the time.  These days feel like my brain is once again working properly, and is in my control.  But the emotional depression, which has not been a major feature of my 9.5 months of severe delayed withdrawal, is so dark and so difficult to endure.  Depression is just the worst. My brain feels like it is possessed by something outside of me and I have no control.  So damn strange.

 

If I could come up with an alternative to just enduring this stuff while time does its job of healing the damage done by Effexor, I would jump at the chance.  It just makes no sense to me to do anything different.  Time, healthy food, some vitamin/Mg/omega 3 oil supplements, gentle activity, working as tolerated.  One day this personal nightmare will end. 

[btdt]

I so get the disappointment and frustration of the shifts... feeling good then not... it can make me cry too. 

Have you watched this video

 

 

to me it is the best description I have ever seen of wd how it morphs and changes and rearranges itself... 

 

This is not an omen but just before my 18 month mark I was sure I was done... only to come to a very negative state of being... I think it was in that time I found the book "the power of NOW" During my search for a way out as I had been so well! It was maddening to have it slip away. Again not everyone has this and I have had a lot of drugs for a long long long time. 

Still things that help do help and this video helped me... the PON book in there one exercise when you get to it do it... watching for the next thought that one saved me so many times... I highly recommend it. 

 

Lately some of my posts have been negative again as I lose my faith in time as a healer but I know lots of people heal maybe just not me.  I am sure your going to be one of the lucky ones due to short term use ect... and your still functional that is a good hint too.  I am in a slump but if this theory holds true I should come out of it hopefully soon. 

peace

[Hudgens]

The Effexor hasn't really done any damage. That's why you can have windows where you feel normal again. If there'd been brain damage, that wouldn't ever be possible. You just got used to functioning with the Effexor and then took it away. So, your brain's not damaged, it's just learning to function without the Effexor-you're slowly adapting. For over a year now I've felt generally normal, much more so lately. In other words, I've gone from feeling ill and occasionally normal to feeling normal and occasionally ill. But it all started with feeling ill most of the time and wondering if I'd ever feel normal again. You will, of course. The worst symptom for me is the depression, second is the insomnia. I think most agree with this. Do you practice any mindfulness techniques?  I think I cut out more than half of my suffering this way.     

[OffEFFexor]

Hey Hudgens--thanks for posting.

 

First, you posted something on another thread, Cryosp's (http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8964-cyrosp-new-on-532015/?p=153804 ) that I really liked and enjoyed.

 

My use of the word 'damage' or the term 'brain damage' I think is a semantic choice that is not intended to covey something different than what you are saying.  In my view, the gross chemical imbalances created by Effexor and the rest of these medications cause the brain to react, and to change its structures and functions in ways that it is fair to call damage.  I think it is very reasonable to avoid the use of the word damage as well - I don't feel strongly one way or the other.  However, we do not hesitate to use the word damage when describing the reactive changes the brain and other organ systems make in response to other chemicals, such as alcohol and cocaine.

 

And the word damage does not imply irreversibility.  When I say damage, I also am completely confident that the healing process will reverse the damage 100%.  I have experienced significant evidence of that healing already.  But I consider this a potato/potahto word choice, and I agree with you completely.

 

I take hope and consolation in your experience.  And yeah, insomnia and depression are much more difficult for me to suffer than all the other symptoms; and for the first eight months of this ordeal the other symptoms have been prominent, insomnia and depression have been very minor players.  Until lately.  Saved the 'best' for last, I hope.

 

I have begun using much more mindfullness exercises, about a month ago just when things seemed to change.  Just when I most needed it - they have helped me tremendously.  The book The Power of Now mentioned above I read about a month ago and the mindfulness he describes is a great help.

 

btdt--you are the one who recommended The Power of Now for me many months ago, and I only got around to it a month ago.  The video you posted above you had also posted earlier, which I liked a lot.  Thank you again for the very helpful things you have pointed me toward.

 

The community and mutual support here on this board is just wonderful.

[btdt]

Sorry for the repost I forget what I did half the time hopefully memory will improve... too. 

peace

[OffEFFexor]

No apology, please.  Gives me a chance to watch it again, and someone else might see it.

[Hudgens]

I just worry about people worrying about actual physical damage to the brain. Adapting to an antidepressant is a change in structure, not damage as in a stroke or head injury. And it's an important distinction because of the extra suffering worrying about it can cause. The brain adapts to the drug and then adapts to its absence, it's as natural as any biological process and there is no damage. I think you're using damage as an equivalent for withdrawal symptoms. I was worried you were using it as referring to actual brain damage and were worrying over something extra and unnecessary. I'm glad you aren't. You're going to be just fine again, and maybe much sooner than you think. But one very singular thing I've noticed is that no matter how long the whole thing takes or how bad it gets, once it's passed-even by the time it gets a lot better-none of the bad stuff seems to mean much. when you go through the worse things you can imagine -worse than you could imagine, you expect it to be traumatizing to some degree, but it's just not.    

[btdt]

I just worry about people worrying about actual physical damage to the brain. Adapting to an antidepressant is a change in structure, not damage as in a stroke or head injury. And it's an important distinction because of the extra suffering worrying about it can cause. The brain adapts to the drug and then adapts to its absence, it's as natural as any biological process and there is no damage. I think you're using damage as an equivalent for withdrawal symptoms. I was worried you were using it as referring to actual brain damage and were worrying over something extra and unnecessary. I'm glad you aren't. You're going to be just fine again, and maybe much sooner than you think. But one very singular thing I've noticed is that no matter how long the whole thing takes or how bad it gets, once it's passed-even by the time it gets a lot better-none of the bad stuff seems to mean much. when you go through the worse things you can imagine -worse than you could imagine, you expect it to be traumatizing to some degree, but it's just not.    

You are I are not going to agree on this.  That is ok with me not agreeing as I think until we really know what is going on to say there is no damage is really jumping the gun... it is not like a drug reaction that wears off not for all of us at least as here I am 7+ years later not normal... there are others too. Too many of us to let this completely slide by. 

 

 you expect it to be traumatizing to some degree, but it's just not

 

It was just yesterday I read ptsd is pat of wd. It may not be damage or it may it may not be injury but it may.  I not that keen to pick words apart and I am not trying to scare the op.. it is his thread... however truth has a part to play in this and I do not think anyone really knows what it going on in our brains and we are not allthe same and not everybody gets completely over this... even if all they have is a drug sensitivity or reduced ability to handle stress that is still something... 

[OffEFFexor]

I've been having a rough go of it.  Insomnia, depression and crying.  Having some good parts of days as well, more up and down.  I've been working a bit more, three days a week.  Working on one or two hours of sleep is very difficult (at least those crazy hours of internship and residency provided the experience to fall back upon.)  But getting out of the house and meeting a commitment lifts my mood.  

 

Reading back a few posts, I see I have been in this insomnia/depressed phase for several weeks now.  I am hopeful that it will not last much longer; I am confident it is temporary.   

[btdt]

It has been temporary for most of us sooner or later it goes best advice I can think of is when you can't sleep try to rest. We have talked about supplements before so will not bug you about it now other than to suggest you talk to a mod about them if you ever question their effects. I never understood why they put doctors thru that sleep deprivation nonsense I don't see any good reason for it .. maybe you could enlighten me.  Why?  

Take good care of yourself 

Wishing you peace

[OffEFFexor]

Cheap source of labor.

 

The actual rationale was the unique learning experience of seeing patients continuously over many hours as you work up a diagnosis, and initiate treatment.  There is something to be said for this, but it does not overcome the obvious downsides of 36 hour shifts, such as errors that harm patients, and the detriment to the mental health of young doctors.

 

The biggest reason such abuse of young doctors persisted for so long is the attitude that 'I went through that torture, so should the next generation.' Tradition, stupidly adhered to in the face of common sense, much like fraternity and military hazin

 

New York has had laws in place for at least 20 years restricting the number of hours doctors can work.  Those laws are actually being complied with in more recent years, and similar limits have been more widely adopted.  My residency program had an enlightened attitude, predating that law, and we never worked more than 24 hours straight, and always had a full day off after overnight shifts.  My internship was relatively mellow too; personally I didn't suffer from this aspect of the system.

[btdt]

Cheap source of labor.

 

The actual rationale was the unique learning experience of seeing patients continuously over many hours as you work up a diagnosis, and initiate treatment.  There is something to be said for this, but it does not overcome the obvious downsides of 36 hour shifts, such as errors that harm patients, and the detriment to the mental health of young doctors.

 

The biggest reason such abuse of young doctors persisted for so long is the attitude that 'I went through that torture, so should the next generation.' Tradition, stupidly adhered to in the face of common sense, much like fraternity and military hazin

 

New York has had laws in place for at least 20 years restricting the number of hours doctors can work.  Those laws are actually being complied with in more recent years, and similar limits have been more widely adopted.  My residency program had an enlightened attitude, predating that law, and we never worked more than 24 hours straight, and always had a full day off after overnight shifts.  My internship was relatively mellow too; personally I didn't suffer from this aspect of the system.

"The actual rationale was the unique learning experience of seeing patients continuously over many hours as you work up a diagnosis, and initiate treatment. "

 

I see some sense in that but some problem solving could have you off in 8  hours with a good meal rest and relaxation under you belt.. back at work to see that patient in 24 hours.. there has to be a better way I think it has outlived its usefulness and needs to be scrapped but I am not a doctor. I just know I don't want a tired hungry doctors thinking about what is best to heal my body.. I want somebody who showed up rested well fed and focused .. in best form to do his best... same as airline pilots  

 

Am I too demanding I am sure I am. 

 

I still want it. When I use to work that is how I went.. ready prepared and focus.. before drugs that is. I know that people are all different but in B land that is how it would be.. 

I hope you sleep well tonight.. soak your feet and epson salts it may help  

peace

[OffEFFexor]

I am having a very nice window the last four days.  I had continued to be depressed, to be crying frequently during the day, and most nights getting only one to three hours of sleep.

 

Last Thursday, I started using a cranial electrical stimulation device.  Three nights later, I slept a solid, restful six hours.  Since that night, three out of four nights my sleep was excellent, the fourth only three hours.  Since that first night of good sleep, no crying, mood much much better.

 

The idea of shooting pulses of very weak electric current into my brain still seems crazy.  But, desperate times call for desperate measures.  Maybe I was due for a window and this is coincidence.  Maybe it is placebo effect.  Maybe this thing is working to actively reduce my symptoms. 

 

I don't care.  I have enjoyed four really good days for which I am grateful.  While the sleep and mood are good, the tinnitus is a little worse, I'm having some headache but not too bad, and these are very tolerable. 

 

This is the device I chose:  http://www.fisherwallace.com/

 

My doctor recommended it, several very reputable New York docs promote it, including Kelly Brogan MD, and I could afford the higher cost compared to the other similar devices.

 

Fresh has reported dramatic relief of her WD symptoms.  I hope what I've enjoyed for a few days continues.

[Fresh]

I'm delighted for you offeffexor

 

I found a book by Ray B Smith Ph.D called "Cranial Electrotherapy Stimulation: It's First Fifty Years Plus 3"

which gives a good account of the history of CES , the possible mechanisms of action , and cites a range of

published research (including studies on anxiety , depression and sleep).

 

If anyone is interested in understanding CES please take the time to read this.

https://books.google...&ots=1eQE3dFdb2

 

Please keep us in the loop , if this can work for us there's hope for thousands of others.

[OffEFFexor]

I put up a post in the thread for CES devices:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4829-alpha-stim-fisher-wallace-sota-biotuner-pons-and-similar-devices/?p=163105

[btdt]

I am really surprised you tried it.  Happy it seems to be working I am too afraid of it I guess my brushes with science especially new science has dulled me zeal to the point I don't want anything new. 

wishing you continued healing hope it keeps working

peace

[OffEFFexor]

I don't know what is more surprising, that I tried it, or that I seem to have a good result so far.

 

I tried it out of desperation, and the conclusion that the risk of it causing harm is minuscule, as well as the fact that I can afford it ($500 with a practitioner's discount; $800 retail).

 

Day 12 of CES. my sleep is much better, seven of the last eight nights it has been good. I had a four day window of feeling nearly normal; then three days of depression and crying, but less intense than before the CES.

[LoveandLight]

Brilliant to hear!

 

I was considering trying phosphatidyl choline..did you notice any improvement with this?

[btdt]

I don't know what is more surprising, that I tried it, or that I seem to have a good result so far.

 

I tried it out of desperation, and the conclusion that the risk of it causing harm is minuscule, as well as the fact that I can afford it ($500 with a practitioner's discount; $800 retail).

 

Day 12 of CES. my sleep is much better, seven of the last eight nights it has been good. I had a four day window of feeling nearly normal; then three days of depression and crying, but less intense than before the CES.

With the way wd goes it makes it difficult to know for sure as there are so many variations and fluctuations in symptoms anyway.. I have had times where seemingly out of the blue my symptoms would change on a dime and I did nothing different.  

I am interested but still the same old jaded me... but I have been reading about such things in history. Chinese medicine chi ect all based on healing the electrical energy in the body now seems to make more sense since I have been reading about PoNS and other electrical stimulating healing devices. As with all forms of study I look at it can get out of hand quickly.. in part due to my not knowing where to draw the line and in part my knowing everything I have done already doesn't work... completely tho some things have helped a bit to make life bearable.  

I found myself here today. 

http://www.huldaclarkzappers.com/?page_id=148

 

Yes to cure cancer... I know but if I am going to take a leap.. then I want to at least read about the jump before hand.  Could it be of course it could it could all be true and so could the chemical imbalance theory anything could be partly true or completely true or bunk... that is why we need research. Real research and I am not any further ahead today just tired of reading. I am happy it is working for you I guess you could be healed in no time and out of here.  Not that I don't love talking to you but I hope it is true I hope the cancer zapper is true too... maybe we are at a turning point in history. 

peace

[OffEFFexor]

Brilliant to hear!

 

I was considering trying phosphatidyl choline..did you notice any improvement with this?

I was taking that supplement prior to quitting effexor.  A naturalpath psychiatrist had given me a list of about a dozen supplements, I was trying to optimize my health prior to stopping the AD.  I have not noticed any effect of it, but it seems like a good source of a healthy lipid.  One of her concerns for me was mitochondrial health.  She also suggested the glutathione, krill oil, borage oil and vit B12; I continued them into withdrawal. 

 

It was interesting, I liked her natural approach, she has a reputation for successfully treating pretty severe mental illness w/o medication.  But before I stopped the AD, I asked her about withdrawal, and she was clueless ('only lasts a few days after CT')