Songbird: a little about me

[Songbird]

Thanks, GrandmaD!  The palps are back and the magnesium sometimes helps and sometimes doesn't.  I have read that lemon balm helps with sleep but I didn't know it could help with palpitations so I might have to get some to try.  It's not the worst symptom to have, it is only uncomfortable, but can make it difficult to focus on doing anything.

[grandmaD]

Well, what do you know!  Sometimes things work and sometimes they don't.  I just discovered the lemon balm didn't work the other night and I had high anxiety, strong palpitations and was awake for 3 hours before I decided to get up!  You don't know if those nights you "think it worked" you might have just been okay anyway! !   so crazy, honestly.

 

I find the palpitations quite distracting, my pulse normally in the 100's and sometimes in the 90's.  Is yours okay?  This is always what prevents me from sleeping (along with excruciating leg/feet pain).

 

If you are using fresh lemon balm, you are to use it 3 weeks and then have a week break from it.

 

Passion flower supposed to be for insomnia and available at Health Food Store.   Tried it, but can't say it helped.  I think you need 10 cups of health food teas to have any effect!

 

CONGRATULATIONS on getting to 5mg!  Go for it!

[Songbird]

Yes the herbal teas for sleep are never strong enough to have much effect on me, but I do find ginger tea good for stomach ache and nausea.  I've been using valerian tincture to help me sleep and also to calm me down when I get wound up, and it usually works pretty well.  It tastes horrible, but I'm used to it.

[Songbird]

I've realised that a lot of what I've been going through lately (insomnia, emotionally hypersensitive, angry, tearful, depressed) has been PMS-related and looking back I also had a lot of similar stuff when I tapered paroxetine especially between 5mg and 4mg.  I've started taking vitex capsules again as that helped immensely last time.  Last time it took about a month to start working and two months to really help a lot.  I'm taking a magnesium forte formula tablet every day and the palpitations have settled down a lot, although they are still there mildly at times.  A lot of what has been upsetting me is work related (to my part-time job, not my own business), and made me realise I still have some issues there.

[stan]

hi Songbird,

 

i remember you from PP and a picture on a beach , years fly

[Songbird]

Hi Stan, nice to see you, I remember you from PP too.  Sorry to see you are still having post-withdrawal problems.

[Songbird]

Well, I had been doing well up to Christmas, I thought, then started having sleep issues again.  Now it seems like my body clock is all messed up.  I can't get to sleep at night and have had to resort to half a pill of something some nights.  Then I can't wake up during the day, feeling tired, unmotivated, and sometimes a bit depressed.  Head feels full of fog.  My adrenals feel all wound up.  My next Neurolink appointment isn't until the 25th.  It's so frustrating as at this time of year I have a lot of time on my hands and I had been hoping to get a lot of things done from my hugely long to-do list.  I'm going to hold at this dose for a while longer until all this crap settles down.

[nz11]

Happy New year songbird

Thanks for the update sorry to read of the sleep issues seems that you are not alone in that area.

Wishing you lots of safe stable drops in 2018 

nz11

[Songbird]

Thanks NZ11.  Things have improved, I fell asleep without any pills last night, and my mood has been a lot better the past couple of days.

[grandmaD]

Christmas has alwlays been a bug-bear, ramping up everything.  Perhaps that's what hapened for you also.  I seem to do okay, staying in my regular routine, but having to go out, be with lots of people (even if they are family!), the travelling, etc. takes its toll. 

 

I wish yhou a Hppy New year and trust you will settle down and coninue your journal and see more and more improvement.

 

Keep turtling on!

[Songbird]

Checking in for an update.  No major changes.  Still the same symptoms, mainly insomnia, mild anxiety and palpitations.  Things gradually settle down and then get ramped up by some trigger.  I think some of it is hormonal (perimenopause stuff I guess).  I've kind of gotten used to feeling mild anxiety and palpitations most of the time now.  My daily pattern is usually anxiety mornings, sleepy/fatigue after lunch, then feeling better late afternoon and evenings.  I've been using my Holosync CD to help get to sleep, which is not really how you're supposed to use it, but it often works for me.  Valerian tincture has also been very useful.  The symptoms have been mostly physical, with some down moods at times, but mostly my moods have been okay to good. 

 

In general, I feel happy and excited about life more often than in the past.  I've been playing more music and feel like I've started to get a bit of my old life back that I missed for so long, as well as mostly enjoying my new non-corporate life as a poor music teacher (apart from the poor part).  It's hard to believe it's now been nearly 7 years since I left my IT career behind.  I've changed a lot and have no interest in that kind of life now.  I feel like I've found the right direction for me and that's very satisfying.

[grandmaD]

Glad to to hear you are still plodding on slowly but surely.  Not to have any drastic changes for the worse is a BIG PLUS!

 

You know you are heading in the right direction now and will get there soon.

 

Insomnia, anxiety and palpitations seem to be the ones that are hard to shake off.  I can also relate to triggers from other directions making things a lot worse too.  I wish you all the best as you continue your journey!

[ChessieCat]

It wonderful to hear from you Songbird and I'm pleased to read that you are doing well.  Thank you for dropping in to let us know how you are.

[Songbird]

Thank you ChessieCat!  I hope you are doing well, too.  I just read on your thread about how you were able to feel excited again too.  I remember years ago wondering why I never felt excited about anything any more - or even very interested in anything.  I'd given up on all my old interests, like playing music.  I even wondered if it was just from getting older - then eventually the penny dropped that it was the AD.  As my dose got lower, the ability to feel excited returned, which felt really amazing after what felt like years of dullness.

[ChessieCat]

20 minutes ago, Songbird said:

which felt really amazing after what felt like years of dullness.

 

Yes, I know exactly what you mean.  I had been on about 5 whale sight seeing cruises and had never seen a whale breach.  The funniest thing was me, at 60 years old, seeing whales breaching very unexpectedly (we were looking at a car for my daughter to buy and the people lived on the coast) and jumping up and down on the spot because I was so excited.  Both seeing the whales and being excited like that were so good.

[aberdeen]

Hey songbird! Thanks for the update! I think we've talked about this before but, have you read much about perimenopause? Ive read some from the "perimenopause blog" and so many women feel like we do. It makes me sad to see how many are taking, or about to take ADs for it, but many are not, and when they describe how they feel I see that many of what I might call "residual" wd symptoms are probably not wd related but hormonal. I definitely feel better anhedonia wise than before, but I still have little energy to actually follow up and do things. I do get pleasure from thinking about doing them though,lol. Maybe thats enough for now. Nice to hear from you! ChessieCat your whale story is nice!! Its so nice to feel excited again isnt it? We went away to a tropical area a while back and when I saw the turquoise water I was totally transfixed by it. It struck my inner artist in ways I hadnt felt in most of my years on meds/coming off them. Its a great feeling!

[grandmaD]

15 hours ago, Songbird said:

 I remember years ago wondering why I never felt excited about anything any more - or even very interested in anything.  I'd given up on all my old interests, like playing music.  I even wondered if it was just from getting older - then eventually the penny dropped that it was the AD.  As my dose got lower, the ability to feel excited returned, which felt really amazing after what felt like years of dullness.

Like you, I never had a clue that I was in the place I was in, not even realising that I had no emotions.  The penny has just dropped with me as I have no experienced a few episodes of "pleasure" for example I looked out last week in the middle of the night and saw many, many stars, and it looked beautiful - whereas before it was just stars in the sky!  Amazing!  We have no idea what these drugs do to us, that's for sure.

 

I have as piano sitting there not been used for 10 years at least.  Your post has encouraged me so much.  I have no desire to play it still, but I went in and looked at it and told myself "one day I will play you again"!

[Songbird]

4 hours ago, grandmaD said:

experienced a few episodes of "pleasure" for example I looked out last week in the middle of the night and saw many, many stars, and it looked beautiful - whereas before it was just stars in the sky! 

 

That's wonderful!  These days I tend to notice those sorts of things more, whereas before I probably took them for granted.  I often feel happy when I see a beautiful flower or a butterfly flying past, things like that.

[manymoretodays]

On 2/21/2018 at 4:09 AM, Songbird said:

Checking in for an update.  No major changes.  Still the same symptoms, mainly insomnia, mild anxiety and palpitations.  Things gradually settle down and then get ramped up by some trigger.  I think some of it is hormonal (perimenopause stuff I guess).  I've kind of gotten used to feeling mild anxiety and palpitations most of the time now.  My daily pattern is usually anxiety mornings, sleepy/fatigue after lunch, then feeling better late afternoon and evenings.  I've been using my Holosync CD to help get to sleep, which is not really how you're supposed to use it, but it often works for me.  Valerian tincture has also been very useful.  The symptoms have been mostly physical, with some down moods at times, but mostly my moods have been okay to good. 

 

In general, I feel happy and excited about life more often than in the past.  I've been playing more music and feel like I've started to get a bit of my old life back that I missed for so long, as well as mostly enjoying my new non-corporate life as a poor music teacher (apart from the poor part).  It's hard to believe it's now been nearly 7 years since I left my IT career behind.  I've changed a lot and have no interest in that kind of life now.  I feel like I've found the right direction for me and that's very satisfying.

 

Hi Songbird,

 

I highlighted your "Holosync CD" comment and it really made me smile..........as I have a whole slew of those from years back that I tried with some success, while still medicated.  What's funny is that my GP who directed me to them laughed as well..........awhile back when I mentioned them again.  I'll have to check and see if they have a website around the ones that I have now.  It was pre-internet/tech evolution......... to the point we are at now, when I got and used them.  I think there is a lot to it though........the sounds, and potential to induce calming or sleep.  And oh......it's hard to find a portable CD player or connection that I can use the proper headphones with.  What do you use?

 

I'm a poor guitar practicing person myself .  When I get the chance or make the time.  Not poor at all, mind you.......in that sense of self and freedom that comes now.  Oh, it's never all roses yet even the thorns have their beauty.  Snow, another full moon, and some visitors have kept my past week in beauty.

 

Thank you for the positive update......

 

Love, peace, healing/inrecovery, and growth,

manymoretodays 

 

And oh hey,  you might enjoy..........or perhaps we could add to Shep's topic in symptoms and self care when music(versus other sounds) is involved.  Now I am thinking on....... is every sound music?

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/16840-music-therapy-music-for-wellness-and-healing/

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2018 by manymoretodays

[Songbird]

On 3/5/2018 at 5:14 AM, manymoretodays said:

....it's hard to find a portable CD player or connection that I can use the proper headphones with.  What do you use?

 

 

I bought a cheap 2nd-hand mini-stereo and put it near my bed, and use a headphone extension cable so the headphones can reach my head on the pillow!

I've been struggling with my scale recently - readings have been jumping around.  I've tried new batteries, which helped a little bit, but it is still fluctuating, which is frustrating and freaks me out a bit.  I'm doing 0.2mg drops which is about a 1mg drop on the scale, i.e. 0.001g, the smallest difference my scale can register!  So if it's out by 0.002 or 0.003 that's really going to mess up my taper.  I could try buying a new scale, although this one isn't even very old!  I might have to investigate getting liquid made again - unfortunately,  it is very expensive.

 

The good news is that I haven't had any palps for a few weeks now!  Still getting a bit of mild morning anxiety, and I need the holosync to get to sleep.  Some days I have a lot of fatigue, and other days I have more energy and get more done.  Overall I have been feeling pretty good recently.

[manymoretodays]

Thank you songbird. 

 

I think the big old bulky headphones are recommended.  I don't, as yet, have an extension cable for my set but will look into it.  I can, however, sit in a chair near my stereo system and write or draw while I holosync.

 

I'm wondering about your tapering drops.  What percentage are you decreasing by now?  And at what frequency?

And do look at this thread/topic and see if it helps with further comfort with your scale:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1596-using-a-digital-scale-to-measure-doses/

 

With the citalopram it does appear that you can make your own liquid as well, if you decide on that route.  Take a look:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/2023-tips-for-tapering-off-celexa-citalopram/

 

And so nice to hear you are doing comfortably and finding some beauty in it all.  My apologies, if you have already studied the above links to the ying-yang(to the max).  Hoping they help.

 

It does sound like some of the morning cortisol spikes.  And a big whoop hooplah that the palpitations have ceased!!!

 

Love, peace, healing/inrecovery, and growth,

mmt

 

 

Edited March 15, 2018 by manymoretodays
additional thoughts and comment and link

[brassmonkey]

Hi Songbird-- I'm so glad you've been feeling better for a while. It looks like your microtaper is really working.

 

These scales can be very sensitive to air currents, fans, open windows, people walking past, breathing.  It will make the display jump all over the place.  There were times I would cup my hands around mine to shield it, which helped some.  The biggest thing was to work in a very still room, and use the calibration weight to get into the midrange of the scales sensor.  Either have the weight in place in the pan when you turn the scales on, pr place it in the pan and press TARE.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Brass

[manymoretodays]

Thanks brassmonkey,

Microtaper.  Ahhh.   

 

So.......I get/understand your tapering method now, Songbird.

Keep us updated when you get a chance.

 

Love, peace, healing/inrecovery, and growth,

mmt

 

[Rachelina]

Hello Songbird! I'm so happy to hear that you are doing well and that your switch has worked for you; I was quite worried about you for a while there.  I understand your being freaked out about the scale.  When I was using a scale I noticed the exact same thing: my drops were .001 g, but the reading would fluctuate by .002 or .003 g. So whenever I made a drop, it was basically the case that I hadn't made a drop at all. Yet over time, obviously I was dropping my dose. I tend to think that the tiny daily differences average themselves out and are not really a problem. Besides, I don't think it's all that much better with liquid: there's a lot of variation in how much liquid gets left in the tip of the syringe. I've fooled around with it a bit and found there's really no difference between one line and the next line down. I think we just have to live with the fact that our measurements are never going to be perfectly accurate, we just do the best we can and I think it ends up being good enough. 

 

OK, sending you lots of calm peaceful healing wishes!

[grandmaD]

On 3/16/2018 at 5:31 AM, brassmonkey said:

use the calibration weight to get into the midrange of the scales sensor.  Either have the weight in place in the pan when you turn the scales on, pr place it in the pan and press TARE.

Brass

My hubby told me about doing this - something about being in the middle of the range and more accurate - which means putting your bit of pill on top of the weight.

 

Do you have good reliable scales?  I have had 2 now from internet and from China and they are very reliable.  I did have another couple which were not as good.  I think these ones cost about $30.  I looked to see if I could find a brand on them, but it just says portable jewelery scale on the lid.  It has a spirit level in the top right corner.

 

I also take the batteries out each time after use so that they stay fresher, longer.

[Songbird]

Thanks everyone, for your replies and good wishes!

 

My scale did not have this fluctuation problem until recently - they were working fine before.  I tried weighing with the calibration weight on, but it didn't help, if anything it seemed to make it slightly worse.  I still have my old scale somewhere, I might dig that out and try it for comparison.

 

I'm just using cheap earphones with my holosync CD, but they seem to work okay anyway.  I usually also do a quick progressive muscle relaxation once I'm lying in bed ready to go to sleep.  I also have a Shakti mat that I use sometimes - it sometimes helps, but other times not.

 

I need to go update my signature with my latest drop.

[Songbird]

Something weird and horrible happened last night.  I had put a moisturiser on my hands and arms and then gone to bed.  Some of the skin on my arms started feeling a bit itchy and I wondered if it was reacting to the moisturiser.  I also felt a bit dizzy but didn't think much of it.  I went off to sleep then I woke up about 2 a.m. feeling extremely nauseous and dizzy - like the room seemed to be spinning round.  I was freaking out and woke up my husband, in case he would need to call an ambulance or something, wondering if I was gonna die!  Strangely I felt physically quite calm, no panic attack symptoms.  I had two cups of ginger tea and went back to bed, lying as still as possible, and after about an hour or so I eventually got back to sleep.  Today I still had some mild nausea and dizziness but managed to get up and go to work and have a fairly normal day.

 

The puzzle is working out what this was all about.  Of course, at the time, my brain was working overtime trying to find a link to something.  Was it triggered by the hand moisturiser?  Or the face cream I'd put on before that?  The chocolate I'd eaten as a treat last night? (I am a chocoholic I'll admit).  Something else I'd eaten yesterday?  Was it withdrawal-related?  Maybe it was some kind of virus?  It's still a mystery...

[AliG]

Hi Songbird. Just some thoughts ... Sometimes, I think there is a tipping point where the volume of drugs, poisons and toxins that we are currently exposed to in this world of ours becomes too much,  and it just starts overflowing ... like a waterfall. We are already highly sensitized so our " tipping point " is much less than average. My theory is that it builds up to a point where any excess just expresses itself in any number of random ways, physically.

 

It may be that your moisturiser was the last thing in your day that pushed you over the edge or it may be that it was just some chemical ingredient, that you reacted badly to ...  or it may be that you are still more highly sensitised to everything, due to your exposure to the drugs, as most of us are.

 

Either way, I think the answer is to try and minimise the chemicals in our lives, like perhaps using coconut oil as a moisturiser and using a natural organic liquid, for clothes washing instead of the highly chemical detergents etc.

 

I think every little bit adds up and anyway we can decrease the load, is a step forward not only personally but also planet - wise.

 

I didn't really answer your question, but I guess I would use coconut oil, instead and leave the chemicals out of your life as much as possible. I think it's important for everyone but even more so for us.

[Kostas]

8 hours ago, Songbird said:

Something weird and horrible happened last night.  I had put a moisturiser on my hands and arms and then gone to bed.  Some of the skin on my arms started feeling a bit itchy and I wondered if it was reacting to the moisturiser.  I also felt a bit dizzy but didn't think much of it.  I went off to sleep then I woke up about 2 a.m. feeling extremely nauseous and dizzy - like the room seemed to be spinning round.  I was freaking out and woke up my husband, in case he would need to call an ambulance or something, wondering if I was gonna die!  Strangely I felt physically quite calm, no panic attack symptoms.  I had two cups of ginger tea and went back to bed, lying as still as possible, and after about an hour or so I eventually got back to sleep.  Today I still had some mild nausea and dizziness but managed to get up and go to work and have a fairly normal day.

 

The puzzle is working out what this was all about.  Of course, at the time, my brain was working overtime trying to find a link to something.  Was it triggered by the hand moisturiser?  Or the face cream I'd put on before that?  The chocolate I'd eaten as a treat last night? (I am a chocoholic I'll admit).  Something else I'd eaten yesterday?  Was it withdrawal-related?  Maybe it was some kind of virus?  It's still a mystery...

His, 

Let's do not oversensitize our cns with extra thoughts, for which is impossible to find a logical answer! 

Let's do no start be afraid of the simplest things like a moisturizer in our hands.

This is only burden our situation. 

Most probably, it was another withdrawal mess, which will go away! 

Best regards 

[Songbird]

Thanks AliG and Kostas!  I've been fine today, so I'm thinking it may have been either the moisturiser or a virus.  I don't know how the moisturiser would do that - I would expect a reaction to be a skin rash, for example, but nausea and vertigo seems an odd reaction.  I guess it could also be withdrawal, but it seems odd that it was just those symptoms and no others, appearing very suddenly and gone a day later.

 

I'm not worried about it now, although naturally I was at the time when in the thick of it.  Ali, I normally do use a gentle moisturiser made by one of my mother's friends.  I hadn't used that commercial one for quite some time, and I am in no hurry to try it again now!  I'll go back to my usual one.  Generally these days I am not hugely sensitive.  I've found that the more severe the withdrawal, the more sensitive my system is, and when withdrawal is very mild my system is not nearly as sensitive and can cope with most everyday things.

 

Thankfully, I have felt absolutely fine today, so it's all good for now.

[grandmaD]

I know how distressing these weird things are!  Honestly, there seems to be no end to the various reactions we encounter!  I guess you will just have to see how it goes from hereon!  I use coconut oil (cause I LOVE the smell!) and I mix olive oil with tea tree oil at other times.  The first time I tried the tea tree oil (also tried eucalyptus oil) I was convinced the anxiety went up.  I just think it depends on how severe the anxiety is at the time and perhaps like Ali said, where the "tipping point" is at in our body! 

[Songbird]

Had another bit of a health scare - a few days ago found a big lump in one breast.  Had an ultrasound today and it turns out it is just a cyst and is harmless, so that's a relief.  I'm basically doing okay right now.  I'll wait another week or two and then if all is still okay go to the next drop.

[brassmonkey]

Hi Songbird-- I so glad things turned out to be okay. Good luck with the continued taper.

 

((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))

 

Brass

[Songbird]

I had to weigh more pills today.  After the scale being temperamental last time, I changed the batteries again and this time I put alkaline batteries in.  It worked a lot better.  I had read here somewhere that people were using lithium batteries, but it seems my scale doesn't like them so I'll stick to alkaline from now on.  I also got my old scale out and compared and they didn't agree on anything so I gave up on that and will stick to the new one.

[Carmie]

On 4/11/2018 at 8:36 PM, Songbird said:

Had another bit of a health scare - a few days ago found a big lump in one breast.  Had an ultrasound today and it turns out it is just a cyst and is harmless, so that's a relief.  I'm basically doing okay right now.  I'll wait another week or two and then if all is still okay go to the next drop.

 

Hi Songbird, 

 

How are you chirping today? Tweet! Tweet! 

 

Did u do your next drop? How is it going?

 

Glad to hear the lump was just a cyst.

 

Doing measuring is fun, isn’t it? Not!😄 I’ve had to do millions ( a hyperbole ) of calculations over the years and also figure out how much water to use to do the water titration to make the doses small. I’m not a math fan, I’m more a reader and I love studying n learning new things. Just as well I listened to the math teachers at school though. Who would have known we would have to so many decimal points!

 

Glad you’re doing okay at the moment.

 

Sending hugs

 

 

 

 

[Songbird]

Hi Carmie, thanks for asking!  I recently made another drop and am really feeling it.  Nothing major, just mild anxiety, down moods, feeling tearful, harder to get to sleep, etc.  Tapering citalopram has been easier than tapering paroxetine so far, but that still doesn't make it a picnic.  I've just realised my signature has the wrong date, my last drop was April not March!

 

I am thinking that tapering the rest of the way using a scale is going to be problematic.  The smallest drop I can measure is 0.2mg, and the scale jumps around too much for me to feel very confident that I've got the right doses.  I think I'll have to look into getting liquid again like I did with paroxetine.  It's expensive but a lot easier.  I have seen that some people make their own liquids, but to me that doesn't seem any easier than weighing.  If I was going to make my own liquid, I would buy a proper medical suspension syrup, so I may as well just pay the compounding pharmacy to do the whole thing.  I'm also considering a switch to twice daily dosing, which I also did last time.  I'll have to think carefully about how I'm going to make these two changes.