human Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Hi, guys. My depression started over 15 years ago and I came to the point when I wanted to end up my life, but I've failed. So my journey from one shrink to another began. I've found a good one when my depression was at my worse. I wasn't happy about taking any medications, because the lack of knowledge in psychiatry field (I'm a nurse with some practice in mental facilities as well and I'm not happy about the things I've seen there nor the general thinking from many doctors and other medical stuff. I was also amazed about the lack of knowledge and common sense in them as well). My depression was so bad that I gave up and started using paroxetine. I had some side effects, but withdrawal after few months was much worse. The vertigo and headaches were horrible. And depression was still there in it's best. I was then on few other SSRI and SNRI, none of them worked (fluoxetine, paroxetine, sertraline, escitalopram, tianeptine, venlafaxine, duloxetine), but all of them gave me their own special withdrawal symptoms. At least I knew I wasn't getting sugar pills. In the meantime I also developed panic attacks and severe anxiety. After few years I suggested switcing to bupropion and I was getting better for the first time. I was also taking clonazepam the whole time. I'm feeling fine for over 4 years now but I had to wait with taper due to some other pain related medical condition. I was adviced to start taper clonazepam first (I started taper 4 months ago). What a mistake! I was on 2mg daily and managed to taper to 1mg. Than I suggested my GP and shrink to taper bupropion as well, because it was making taper heavier and none of them were happy with my suggestion. I have my GP on my side now after seeing me in really bad condition a couple of times.Right now I'm taking 0,875mg of clonazepam and 300mg of gabapentin (started a week ago and I'm not on final dose which will be around 600-900mg) because of my pain related condition. It also helps with the withdrawal. I'm well aware that it has a WD of it's own, it's a risk I'm willing to pay considering the current options.I took my last dose of bupropion today and I will give myself a little brake until the end of this month. In january I'll continue to taper clonazepam. I'm not a native english speaker and I appologize for potential weird (ab)use of grammar. I'm sure you've seen worse due to my current taper I'm also not very good with words. “Normal is an illusion. What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.” Charles Addams History: Resistant depression and axiety; fluoxetine, paroxetine, sertraline, escitalopram, tianeptine, venlafaxine, duloxetine-each of them was tapered in less than a month and used as a mono therapy, not all at once. Tramadol (back injury) up to 400mg, stopped in 2014 and switched to gabapentin.December 2014: bupropion 150mg taper (taking 150 every other day for 10days, then stopped). I was taking this one nearly 6 years.Current taper and therapy: clonazepam 2mg-1.75-1.5-1.25-1-1.25-1-0.875-0.75-0.625mg-0.5mg-0.375mg-0.25mg / Other: gabapentin 400-300-200mg Link to comment
Moderator brassmonkey Posted December 20, 2014 Moderator Share Posted December 20, 2014 Hi Human-- welcome to the group. I've been speaking English all my life and have been having a lot of trouble with it because of the drugs. You're doing a lot better than most. One thing I have to ask, was your "pain related medical condition" diagnosed before or after you started taking all these different drugs? I'm asking because while I was on my full dose and for quite a while when I was tapering I had severe pain problems. I have since learned that the Paxil I was taking was very good at mimicking the pain of fibromialgia (sp) and just causing a lot of pain on its own. I have also heard of a number of other people who have had the same problem from paxil and other drugs. 20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013. Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks. The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better. Final Dose 0.016mg. Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017 "It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general." Stephen Hawking Link to comment
human Posted December 20, 2014 Author Share Posted December 20, 2014 Thank you for the welcome brassmonkey. I didn't have any other illnesses when I was using paxil, but it did gave me some tingling (whole body sometimes, head most of the time). It is possible to cause some pain (pain in the back, muscles, bones, or anywhere in the body) even though it can relieve some. I had a SCI few years ago when I was already on bupropion.If you're a male this will be irrelevant for you, but might help some other women - I've noticed a mild to severe WD symptoms every month a week before my period. It actually makes sense, because the hormones change metabolism of the drugs. Another thing many doc's are unaware of. “Normal is an illusion. What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.” Charles Addams History: Resistant depression and axiety; fluoxetine, paroxetine, sertraline, escitalopram, tianeptine, venlafaxine, duloxetine-each of them was tapered in less than a month and used as a mono therapy, not all at once. Tramadol (back injury) up to 400mg, stopped in 2014 and switched to gabapentin.December 2014: bupropion 150mg taper (taking 150 every other day for 10days, then stopped). I was taking this one nearly 6 years.Current taper and therapy: clonazepam 2mg-1.75-1.5-1.25-1-1.25-1-0.875-0.75-0.625mg-0.5mg-0.375mg-0.25mg / Other: gabapentin 400-300-200mg Link to comment
Moderator brassmonkey Posted December 20, 2014 Moderator Share Posted December 20, 2014 In this case luckily I am a man. I have read many, many accounts of how these drugs effect you ladies hormone cycles, and it really upsets me that you have this thrown on top of all the other WD problems. It's even less fair than the unfair we all suffer. 20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013. Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks. The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better. Final Dose 0.016mg. Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017 "It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general." Stephen Hawking Link to comment
Frustrated Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Yes I have noticed an increase in symptoms a few days before until a coule days into my monthly cycle. Ot seems consistant every month. Guess it is wd since othets are experiencing it as well. 2002-put on amitryptiline for fibromyalgia. 10mg.2004-stopped abruptly. Didn't think it helped.2006 approx.-put on Paxil for mild anxiety 20 mg.2007 upped to 40 mg. not sure why.2011- tapered from 40 to 10. went nuts and went back to 20mg2014- tapered from 20mg to 0 from April to The end of June.current meds- Metformin(type 2 diabetic) and low dose aspirin.Take multi vitamin and vit b12, vit. D and magnesium. 5 months off Paxil. Still suffering.recently added 1.2mg of Paxil to alleviate withdrawals.(Nov 30)Dropped to .9mg because having symptoms from reinstatement.(dec 23)<p>taper to .76mg-.8mg (Feb 3) approx. weight .010 to about .008-.009 on scale..6mg (march 19th.) .5mg(April 19th).4mg(April 27th).2 (June 27th) 0mg. done taper at beginning of August. Link to comment
Frustrated Posted December 20, 2014 Share Posted December 20, 2014 Ugh sorry about spelling. Dumb iphone 2002-put on amitryptiline for fibromyalgia. 10mg.2004-stopped abruptly. Didn't think it helped.2006 approx.-put on Paxil for mild anxiety 20 mg.2007 upped to 40 mg. not sure why.2011- tapered from 40 to 10. went nuts and went back to 20mg2014- tapered from 20mg to 0 from April to The end of June.current meds- Metformin(type 2 diabetic) and low dose aspirin.Take multi vitamin and vit b12, vit. D and magnesium. 5 months off Paxil. Still suffering.recently added 1.2mg of Paxil to alleviate withdrawals.(Nov 30)Dropped to .9mg because having symptoms from reinstatement.(dec 23)<p>taper to .76mg-.8mg (Feb 3) approx. weight .010 to about .008-.009 on scale..6mg (march 19th.) .5mg(April 19th).4mg(April 27th).2 (June 27th) 0mg. done taper at beginning of August. Link to comment
human Posted December 20, 2014 Author Share Posted December 20, 2014 brassmonkey: I envy you on this one Frustrated, I'd suggest that you lower the dose at the beginning of the cycle and continue tapering at the beginning of next one. If you feel ok, you can do another reduction after a week, but not later. Just listen to your body and you'll find what works best for you eventually. I wish you all best. “Normal is an illusion. What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.” Charles Addams History: Resistant depression and axiety; fluoxetine, paroxetine, sertraline, escitalopram, tianeptine, venlafaxine, duloxetine-each of them was tapered in less than a month and used as a mono therapy, not all at once. Tramadol (back injury) up to 400mg, stopped in 2014 and switched to gabapentin.December 2014: bupropion 150mg taper (taking 150 every other day for 10days, then stopped). I was taking this one nearly 6 years.Current taper and therapy: clonazepam 2mg-1.75-1.5-1.25-1-1.25-1-0.875-0.75-0.625mg-0.5mg-0.375mg-0.25mg / Other: gabapentin 400-300-200mg Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus mammaP Posted December 20, 2014 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted December 20, 2014 Hi Human, welcome to SA. How long have you been taking bupropion? You have had many drugs over the years and that usually means it is difficult to get off them. Doctors usually recommend taking the drug every other day and tapering far too quickly which leads to withdrawal and having to go back on the drug, sometimes with even more drugs added. They believe it is a return of the original illness but it has now been shown to be withdrawal, You tapered very quickly from 150mg and could suffer withdrawal. Here at SA we recommend tapering 10% of the current dose every 4 weeks to reduce the risk of withdrawal. I would wait for a few months before starting to taper another drug, because your nervous system will be destabilised from the fast taper plus the partial taper of clonazepam. You may want to go back on a small dose of buproprion and hold for a few months to allow your brain and nervous system to settle down, then start a slow taper. We have seen many people come here after tapering too fast and suffering badly with withdrawal, it can start days after the last dose, or even months later. I would hate for you to be one of those who are badly affected. Here is the topic for tapering buproprion http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/877-tips-for-tapering-off-wellbutrin-sr-xr-xl-buproprion/ About reinstating to stabilise http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3079-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-stop-withdrawal-symptoms/ Why taper 10% http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/ **I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge. Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem) 1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat 2002 effexor. Tapered March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads. Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013 Restarted taper Nov 2013 OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015 Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014 Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg July 2017 30mg. May 15 2018 25mg Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33 Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible Link to comment
human Posted December 20, 2014 Author Share Posted December 20, 2014 Hi, mammaP. Thank you for your tips and info about the taper. I already stopped bupropion few years ago and wasn't having much of a WD with this one, just vertigo and headaches. This time is similar; I've been taking it for 5 years. In our country it only comes in 150mg and 300mg pills (XR), so the only option is to break up the pill (it's not so easy with those strong coats) and slowly reducing the dosage or taper the way I did. Due to my experience, worsening of the WD from clonazepam, my medical knowledge and along with my doc's consent, I did it the way I did. At first I thought I'll only taper clonazepam, but things changed. I also have some other things on my shoulders which are forcing me to speed up clonazepam taper to 2-3 months max. I'm already 4 months in taper, so I'll be glad when it'll be finally over, specially because I know there can be some WD like symptoms for months or even years after.I adjusted the time of tapering for other antidepressants differently, depending on the time I've been taking the specific medication, dosage and general well being during WD (this was almost a decade ago). Don't worry about me, I'm quite a veteran @ this field. But yes, any advice is welcome. I also agree with 10% reduction every 4 weeks, but everybody have to listen to it's own body as well and adjust the dosage. Better too slow than too fast. “Normal is an illusion. What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.” Charles Addams History: Resistant depression and axiety; fluoxetine, paroxetine, sertraline, escitalopram, tianeptine, venlafaxine, duloxetine-each of them was tapered in less than a month and used as a mono therapy, not all at once. Tramadol (back injury) up to 400mg, stopped in 2014 and switched to gabapentin.December 2014: bupropion 150mg taper (taking 150 every other day for 10days, then stopped). I was taking this one nearly 6 years.Current taper and therapy: clonazepam 2mg-1.75-1.5-1.25-1-1.25-1-0.875-0.75-0.625mg-0.5mg-0.375mg-0.25mg / Other: gabapentin 400-300-200mg Link to comment
human Posted December 27, 2014 Author Share Posted December 27, 2014 Small update: I'm now 8 days bupropion free. Hooray! I'm still prepared for some WD symptoms to come. I had few headaches at the beginning of taper and quite strong vertigo. Right now I can see that I became calmer, my blood pressure that went a bit up due to my benzo WD also came down. I suspected bupropion over benzo WD but it will take some time to see it this was the case. Despite the pain I feel better even though my clonazepam WD is still present and will be even worse when I'll continue to taper.I suggested my psychiatrist to cut bupropion first, but in our country (and I believe that elsewhere is not so different) most doctors suggest that antidepressant should go away at the end. My shrink is also in denial about warnings that bupropion should not be used during benzo WD. I'm glad I learned to listen to myself as well and I hope I made my benzo taper a bit easier from this point. Lesson learned: when tapering multiple drugs, cut the antidepressant first as described here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2207-taking-multiple-psych-drugs-taper-the-antidepressant-first/ Even though I feel better now, I don't recommend such a fast bupropion taper to others. “Normal is an illusion. What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.” Charles Addams History: Resistant depression and axiety; fluoxetine, paroxetine, sertraline, escitalopram, tianeptine, venlafaxine, duloxetine-each of them was tapered in less than a month and used as a mono therapy, not all at once. Tramadol (back injury) up to 400mg, stopped in 2014 and switched to gabapentin.December 2014: bupropion 150mg taper (taking 150 every other day for 10days, then stopped). I was taking this one nearly 6 years.Current taper and therapy: clonazepam 2mg-1.75-1.5-1.25-1-1.25-1-0.875-0.75-0.625mg-0.5mg-0.375mg-0.25mg / Other: gabapentin 400-300-200mg Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 1, 2015 Administrator Share Posted January 1, 2015 Welcome, human. Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, seehttp://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/ This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
human Posted January 9, 2015 Author Share Posted January 9, 2015 Thank you Altostrata. “Normal is an illusion. What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.” Charles Addams History: Resistant depression and axiety; fluoxetine, paroxetine, sertraline, escitalopram, tianeptine, venlafaxine, duloxetine-each of them was tapered in less than a month and used as a mono therapy, not all at once. Tramadol (back injury) up to 400mg, stopped in 2014 and switched to gabapentin.December 2014: bupropion 150mg taper (taking 150 every other day for 10days, then stopped). I was taking this one nearly 6 years.Current taper and therapy: clonazepam 2mg-1.75-1.5-1.25-1-1.25-1-0.875-0.75-0.625mg-0.5mg-0.375mg-0.25mg / Other: gabapentin 400-300-200mg Link to comment
human Posted September 29, 2018 Author Share Posted September 29, 2018 I have a silly question about tapering. I've had serotonin syndrome after st.john's worth which was treated with clonazepam and risperidone. Things are better now and since I really don't wan't to take meds for longer than "urgent", I'm wondering how to taper those 2 bad guys. I'm very familiar with clonazepam, because I've been on it for 8 years and tapered 4 years ago to 0. So going slow would be my advice to myself, but how slow? I've been taking them both for only a month. Do I even have to taper risperidone or could I just quit? “Normal is an illusion. What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.” Charles Addams History: Resistant depression and axiety; fluoxetine, paroxetine, sertraline, escitalopram, tianeptine, venlafaxine, duloxetine-each of them was tapered in less than a month and used as a mono therapy, not all at once. Tramadol (back injury) up to 400mg, stopped in 2014 and switched to gabapentin.December 2014: bupropion 150mg taper (taking 150 every other day for 10days, then stopped). I was taking this one nearly 6 years.Current taper and therapy: clonazepam 2mg-1.75-1.5-1.25-1-1.25-1-0.875-0.75-0.625mg-0.5mg-0.375mg-0.25mg / Other: gabapentin 400-300-200mg Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus ChessieCat Posted September 29, 2018 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted September 29, 2018 Please update your drug signature: Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature Clonazepam is a benzo and if you've been on it for 4 weeks then you may already be dependent on it so careful tapering is suggested. Tapering one drug at a time is recommended. taking-multiple-psych-drugs-which-drug-to-taper-first and taper-more-than-one-drug-at-a-time Please read this topic: tips-for-tapering-off-risperdal-risperidone You could try doing a quick taper but if withdrawal symptoms appear then you would need to hold. Also: Keep Notes on PaperRate Symptoms Daily to Check Patterns and Progress * NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA * MISSION ACCOMPLISHED: (6 year taper) 0mg Pristiq on 13th November 2021 ADs since ~1992: 25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq: 50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity) Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021 LAST DOSE 0.0025mg Post 0 updates start here My tapering program My Intro (goes to tapering graph) VIDEO: Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management Link to comment
human Posted September 30, 2018 Author Share Posted September 30, 2018 Thank you. “Normal is an illusion. What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.” Charles Addams History: Resistant depression and axiety; fluoxetine, paroxetine, sertraline, escitalopram, tianeptine, venlafaxine, duloxetine-each of them was tapered in less than a month and used as a mono therapy, not all at once. Tramadol (back injury) up to 400mg, stopped in 2014 and switched to gabapentin.December 2014: bupropion 150mg taper (taking 150 every other day for 10days, then stopped). I was taking this one nearly 6 years.Current taper and therapy: clonazepam 2mg-1.75-1.5-1.25-1-1.25-1-0.875-0.75-0.625mg-0.5mg-0.375mg-0.25mg / Other: gabapentin 400-300-200mg Link to comment
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