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SelmaLady: How do I do this?


SelmaLady

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I am new here.  I have developed PGAD in the past two days along with other perceptual and emotional and cognitive dysfunctions that I know will not lessen .  I am trying to taper off of the Doxepin and the Zoloft but have been told to do it so slowly.  I need to know that God will carry my through this to the time when He will call me home to Him.  Because I have such debilitating symptoms including severe akathisia I can't find any rest at all.  I don't know how to go on.  I am in agony without hope. 

1971-81  Valium 5mg c/t PAWS     1992- through now Zoloft 25mg    2003-05 Valium 12mg Slow Taper Off

2013 Afrin Exposure to CNS    2013 O/D Val 230mg    2013 Doxepin 50mg Clonidine 2mg Zoloft 25mg

3/15/16  Doxepin 49mg Micro Tapering  Zoloft 24.3mg Holding taper

3/15/16 Clonidine mg 0.1 1/2 -    Decreasing incrementally.  DISCONTINUED

10/9/16  Doxepin 48.9  Zoloft 24.3  Clonidine  01.10  Continuing micro taper on Doxepin.

11/16/16 Doxepin 48mg  Zoloft 24.3mg  Clonidine 1.30mg

5/4/17  Doxepin 45mg  Zoloft 24mg  Clonidine 1.20mg   Micro taper of Doxepin  , Clonidine

01/13/19  Doxepin 45mg   Zoloft 21mg   Will start Micro taper of Doxepin 2/19

12/21/21  Doxepin 20 mg ?  Reducing using water micro taper--Pulling 24ml from 75ml

12/2121   Zoloft .060 grams by weight--HOLDING (info from post added by CC: On 12/21/21 my dosage was .060grams by weight or 20mg. )

26 Apr 2022 - Zoloft at -0-

 

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I am new here with a long scary history of chemical damage to my brain.  Right now I am experiencing intense akathisia and wanting and needing to taper off of both Doxepin 50mg and Zoloft 25mg.  I am having horrific brain symptoms including PGAD .  I know these are being intensified by the Zoloft particularly but I have been told to taper this in miniscule shavings and taking up to 3-4 years to complete the taper to give me a better chance at recovery.  I 'm now trying to taper both the Doxepin and the Zoloft as I was told to this since they have become interdependent.  Does this seem right??  I can see that the a/d's are toxic to me and in addition to the akathisia/PGAD I have horrific perceptual distortions where  my brain is removing more and more visual space so that every other day my visual perception "shrinks" and the world is seen closer and closer to me.  I also have lost all sense of where I am or who I am and the DR/DP is unendurable.  I pretty much know what that this is a serotonin/dopamine deregulation compounded by a c/t Valium w/d in the '80's that never completely healed and left me with a flat visual perception : 2D and no emotional tie to my world.  My brain had compensated for that and before this happened to me, I was leading a perfectly normal and happy life.  I just need to know if, by prolonging the taper off ot the a/d's that it is making my chances better or worse for at least some recovery.

1971-81  Valium 5mg c/t PAWS     1992- through now Zoloft 25mg    2003-05 Valium 12mg Slow Taper Off

2013 Afrin Exposure to CNS    2013 O/D Val 230mg    2013 Doxepin 50mg Clonidine 2mg Zoloft 25mg

3/15/16  Doxepin 49mg Micro Tapering  Zoloft 24.3mg Holding taper

3/15/16 Clonidine mg 0.1 1/2 -    Decreasing incrementally.  DISCONTINUED

10/9/16  Doxepin 48.9  Zoloft 24.3  Clonidine  01.10  Continuing micro taper on Doxepin.

11/16/16 Doxepin 48mg  Zoloft 24.3mg  Clonidine 1.30mg

5/4/17  Doxepin 45mg  Zoloft 24mg  Clonidine 1.20mg   Micro taper of Doxepin  , Clonidine

01/13/19  Doxepin 45mg   Zoloft 21mg   Will start Micro taper of Doxepin 2/19

12/21/21  Doxepin 20 mg ?  Reducing using water micro taper--Pulling 24ml from 75ml

12/2121   Zoloft .060 grams by weight--HOLDING (info from post added by CC: On 12/21/21 my dosage was .060grams by weight or 20mg. )

26 Apr 2022 - Zoloft at -0-

 

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Hi SelmaLady and welcome to SA. I saw your other post ans in a bit I will be moving it here to your indroductions and it will probably make itself your first introducttion post.

 

Before we can give you much detailed information to try to answer your questions would you clarify your current drugs? You mention zoloft in your sig , it looked to be past history but I see it is not. Perhaps you could add a line saying: "Currently on Zoloft, doxepin and whatever else you are on including OTC drugs and supplements. You did very well in creating your signature line though.

What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

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I am in a great deal of pain right now and my cognitive skills are really bad.  I tried to give a really detailed signature but kept getting thrown off for too many words so I condensed it.  I have been taking Zoloft continually since 1990.

1971-81  Valium 5mg c/t PAWS     1992- through now Zoloft 25mg    2003-05 Valium 12mg Slow Taper Off

2013 Afrin Exposure to CNS    2013 O/D Val 230mg    2013 Doxepin 50mg Clonidine 2mg Zoloft 25mg

3/15/16  Doxepin 49mg Micro Tapering  Zoloft 24.3mg Holding taper

3/15/16 Clonidine mg 0.1 1/2 -    Decreasing incrementally.  DISCONTINUED

10/9/16  Doxepin 48.9  Zoloft 24.3  Clonidine  01.10  Continuing micro taper on Doxepin.

11/16/16 Doxepin 48mg  Zoloft 24.3mg  Clonidine 1.30mg

5/4/17  Doxepin 45mg  Zoloft 24mg  Clonidine 1.20mg   Micro taper of Doxepin  , Clonidine

01/13/19  Doxepin 45mg   Zoloft 21mg   Will start Micro taper of Doxepin 2/19

12/21/21  Doxepin 20 mg ?  Reducing using water micro taper--Pulling 24ml from 75ml

12/2121   Zoloft .060 grams by weight--HOLDING (info from post added by CC: On 12/21/21 my dosage was .060grams by weight or 20mg. )

26 Apr 2022 - Zoloft at -0-

 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Selmalady, welcome to SA. I am sorry to see that you are feeling so sick. I'm sorry for all 

the wuestions but can I ask when you started to feel so bad? You were doing well after recovering

from the valium taper but now you are obviously feeling very ill.  Did you get worse after starting the doxepin and/or 

clonodine?  I put your drugs into the reactions checker and it came up with red alerts for the combination that you are taking! 

 

Interactions between your selected drugs
interaction-3-big.png clonidine ↔ doxepin

Applies to: clonidine, doxepin

Talk to your doctoricon1.png before using cloNIDine and doxepin. This combination may cause nausea, vomiting, sweating, flushing, dizziness, stiff neck, headache or heart palpitations. If you take both medications together, tell your doctor if you have any of these symptoms. You may need a dose adjustment or need your blood pressure checked more often. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

interaction-3-big.png doxepin ↔ sertraline

Applies to: doxepin, Zoloft (sertraline)

Before taking doxepin, tell your doctor if you also use sertraline. You may need dose adjustments or special tests in order to safely take both medications together. This combination may increase the effects of doxepin in your body. You should notify your doctor if you have symptoms of sedation, dry mouth, blurred vision, constipation, or urinary retention. You might also have altered consciousness, confusion, poor muscle coordination, abdominal cramping, shivering, pupillary dilation, sweating, high blood pressureicon1.png, and high heart rate. It is important that you tell your healthcare providericon1.png about all other medications that you are using including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using your medications without first talking to your doctor first.

Switch to professional interaction data

No other interactions were found between your selected drugs.
Note: this does not necessarily mean no interactions exist. ALWAYSicon1.png consult with your doctor or pharmacisticon1.png.

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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Oh thank you for getting back to me.  I am in a place of absolute agony and fight sucidal thots every minute of every day. 

I DID do quite well when I tapered in 2003-2005 using Heather Ashton's protocol.  BUT  my first w/d from Valium left me with protracted DR/DP and memory deficits that never recovered.  I did recover to baseline after 2005 and even saw some improvement in the area that had previously been a problem such as an inability to recognize faces at times, and fluctuating cognitive functions.

In February of 2013, I had a horrible cold and was due to fly across country to visit my youngest daughter but was stuffed up.  I had used Afrin many, many times w/o any problems but on the morning of 2/13 when I used it, within a couple of moments I felt a change in my DP: I felt detached and "weird".  I thot it was just a temporary problem and flew to Charlotte NC.  Within 24 hours I was pacing non stop with extreme anxiety.  Within a week, my DR/DP jumped  and I went into a horrible akathisia state and amping up of the DR that left me feeling as tho I had taken LSD  I ended up so bad that I tried to end my life and swallowed 25 10mg Valium.  I had intented to put a plastic bag over my head but passed out before I could do that.  Ended up in psch hospital and put on the Dox + Clonidine + my Zoloft I was already on.  Was getting better until I had to take penicillin one year ago

1971-81  Valium 5mg c/t PAWS     1992- through now Zoloft 25mg    2003-05 Valium 12mg Slow Taper Off

2013 Afrin Exposure to CNS    2013 O/D Val 230mg    2013 Doxepin 50mg Clonidine 2mg Zoloft 25mg

3/15/16  Doxepin 49mg Micro Tapering  Zoloft 24.3mg Holding taper

3/15/16 Clonidine mg 0.1 1/2 -    Decreasing incrementally.  DISCONTINUED

10/9/16  Doxepin 48.9  Zoloft 24.3  Clonidine  01.10  Continuing micro taper on Doxepin.

11/16/16 Doxepin 48mg  Zoloft 24.3mg  Clonidine 1.30mg

5/4/17  Doxepin 45mg  Zoloft 24mg  Clonidine 1.20mg   Micro taper of Doxepin  , Clonidine

01/13/19  Doxepin 45mg   Zoloft 21mg   Will start Micro taper of Doxepin 2/19

12/21/21  Doxepin 20 mg ?  Reducing using water micro taper--Pulling 24ml from 75ml

12/2121   Zoloft .060 grams by weight--HOLDING (info from post added by CC: On 12/21/21 my dosage was .060grams by weight or 20mg. )

26 Apr 2022 - Zoloft at -0-

 

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Is it possible to taper the Clonidine at the same time as the Doxipin and the Zoloft?  Will I experience any improvement as I taper these drugs?

1971-81  Valium 5mg c/t PAWS     1992- through now Zoloft 25mg    2003-05 Valium 12mg Slow Taper Off

2013 Afrin Exposure to CNS    2013 O/D Val 230mg    2013 Doxepin 50mg Clonidine 2mg Zoloft 25mg

3/15/16  Doxepin 49mg Micro Tapering  Zoloft 24.3mg Holding taper

3/15/16 Clonidine mg 0.1 1/2 -    Decreasing incrementally.  DISCONTINUED

10/9/16  Doxepin 48.9  Zoloft 24.3  Clonidine  01.10  Continuing micro taper on Doxepin.

11/16/16 Doxepin 48mg  Zoloft 24.3mg  Clonidine 1.30mg

5/4/17  Doxepin 45mg  Zoloft 24mg  Clonidine 1.20mg   Micro taper of Doxepin  , Clonidine

01/13/19  Doxepin 45mg   Zoloft 21mg   Will start Micro taper of Doxepin 2/19

12/21/21  Doxepin 20 mg ?  Reducing using water micro taper--Pulling 24ml from 75ml

12/2121   Zoloft .060 grams by weight--HOLDING (info from post added by CC: On 12/21/21 my dosage was .060grams by weight or 20mg. )

26 Apr 2022 - Zoloft at -0-

 

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Anything is possible, as far as tapering, but tapering multiple meds at the same time is particularly tricky and requires lots of management, and you say that your cognitive functions are not great right now, so it might be very challenging to do it safely.

 

An alternative that works for many people is to taper one med for a while, then hold it at the new lower dose while tapering another med for a while, et cetera. That might be a good approach for you.

 

Unfortunately we can't say how things will go as you taper.  Most people do experience gradual improvement as the doses get lower, but you do seem to be very sensitive to psychoactive meds and you've got a complex history with some atypical reactions, so I would hate to speculate. Overall, most people, if tapering slowly enough, do experience relief from the drug effects as the doses decrease over time.

 

I'm impressed that you have a doctor who recommends such a slow taper. I have to agree with him or her, given your history, unless you're certain the drugs are causing you immediate toxic effects, a very slow taper is what I would recommend too. It's tricky in your case with no clear right or wrong answer, since the drugs themselves are causing problems almost as bad as what the withdrawal would cause. But given the complexity of your history and your suicidality with a past attempt (been there, I get it!) I would tend to err on the side of caution. And caution, I think, in your case, would mean making only very small changes and gradually.

 

Those are my thoughts, anyway. Unfortunately we have no experts, your own body is the best expert there is, and the decisions are going to be entirely yours. 

 

I am so, so sorry for your suffering. I'm glad you're here.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

Oct 2022       4.5 mg Lamictal    (off Celexa, off Xanax)   0.95 Valium    Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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Thank you so much Rhi.  I am in such agony that I don't trust myself with what to do.  I know that during my second w/d from Valium, as I tapered slowly down, I actually got better and better which surprised me.  I'm so praying that this will happen again for me. 

 

I don't have a doctor.  Or at least one that knows anything about what I'm going through.  I have had counseling from Ann...can't think of her last name.  She has expert knowledge of SSRI's, I'm sure that Alto knows her.  She is the one who advised me to taper the two a/d's together and to take tiny tiny shavings off the Zoloft.  My husband is doing all of the meds for me and he has a milligram scale and all kinds of measuring equipment for the liquid Doxepin that I am taking along with the powder in the capsule.  He has a notebook in which he writes down every thing.  Very complicated.   

 

My special tormentor as of two days ago is PGAD.  I have had akathisia horribly in the past two years but this is something that surpasses any of that.  I can't seem to find any way to mitigate the agony.  I pace and rock and sob and moan.  I tried ice but that did no good.  So so so hard to distract from the relentless pressure.  Up until now, I have been able to play computer games and watch some tv but now the pull is so intense that it keeps me from any relief at all.  Do you know of anyone who got this while on the drugs and went onto recover at least some from it? 

1971-81  Valium 5mg c/t PAWS     1992- through now Zoloft 25mg    2003-05 Valium 12mg Slow Taper Off

2013 Afrin Exposure to CNS    2013 O/D Val 230mg    2013 Doxepin 50mg Clonidine 2mg Zoloft 25mg

3/15/16  Doxepin 49mg Micro Tapering  Zoloft 24.3mg Holding taper

3/15/16 Clonidine mg 0.1 1/2 -    Decreasing incrementally.  DISCONTINUED

10/9/16  Doxepin 48.9  Zoloft 24.3  Clonidine  01.10  Continuing micro taper on Doxepin.

11/16/16 Doxepin 48mg  Zoloft 24.3mg  Clonidine 1.30mg

5/4/17  Doxepin 45mg  Zoloft 24mg  Clonidine 1.20mg   Micro taper of Doxepin  , Clonidine

01/13/19  Doxepin 45mg   Zoloft 21mg   Will start Micro taper of Doxepin 2/19

12/21/21  Doxepin 20 mg ?  Reducing using water micro taper--Pulling 24ml from 75ml

12/2121   Zoloft .060 grams by weight--HOLDING (info from post added by CC: On 12/21/21 my dosage was .060grams by weight or 20mg. )

26 Apr 2022 - Zoloft at -0-

 

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You read Hopeful's thread?

What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

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I am beginning a dual tapering of Doxepin (50mg) and Zoloft (25mg) at an incredibly slow rate because of my history and current brain chaos, taking upto 3-4 years to be completely off of them.  I was told that in tapering SSRI's the rule is 1 year of tapering for every 5 years of being on the drug.  I've been on the Zoloft for 24 years and the Doxepin for about 18 months.  So if I hold to that schedule, I would off the Doxepin in under two years but the Zolft not for 4.  Since the brain is synergystic, would getting off the Doxepin ahead of the Zoloft cause a problem?  I would so love to be rid of the Doxepin as soon as I can as the serotonin amping from the combo of these two drugs is tagged as dangerous--- 

 

Also, I can't seem to find a post from someone who followed that slow of a taper.  I'm wondering if slowing it down that much will affect the brain's response when completely OFF the SSRI??  Does it really make a huge differencen?  I did a really slow taper off of Valium my second time of coming off and I did really well, becoming complerely functional before I was even finished with the taper ( as opposed to being totally non functional the first c/t w/d in the '80's for more than four years).  Just hoping to see someone's post who has done this type of prolonged taper...

 

So very very grateful to be here on this site.

 

 

1971-81  Valium 5mg c/t PAWS     1992- through now Zoloft 25mg    2003-05 Valium 12mg Slow Taper Off

2013 Afrin Exposure to CNS    2013 O/D Val 230mg    2013 Doxepin 50mg Clonidine 2mg Zoloft 25mg

3/15/16  Doxepin 49mg Micro Tapering  Zoloft 24.3mg Holding taper

3/15/16 Clonidine mg 0.1 1/2 -    Decreasing incrementally.  DISCONTINUED

10/9/16  Doxepin 48.9  Zoloft 24.3  Clonidine  01.10  Continuing micro taper on Doxepin.

11/16/16 Doxepin 48mg  Zoloft 24.3mg  Clonidine 1.30mg

5/4/17  Doxepin 45mg  Zoloft 24mg  Clonidine 1.20mg   Micro taper of Doxepin  , Clonidine

01/13/19  Doxepin 45mg   Zoloft 21mg   Will start Micro taper of Doxepin 2/19

12/21/21  Doxepin 20 mg ?  Reducing using water micro taper--Pulling 24ml from 75ml

12/2121   Zoloft .060 grams by weight--HOLDING (info from post added by CC: On 12/21/21 my dosage was .060grams by weight or 20mg. )

26 Apr 2022 - Zoloft at -0-

 

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From reading your intro, it sounds like you are in a complicated place. My heart goes out to you. From that place, it is almost impossible to make predictions. The risk is that the epinephrine-enhancing (wrong word, but hopefully you know what I mean) could cause problems, but I don't think it is as likely with a SSRI as if you were stopping a very sedating drug, like a benzo or antipsychotic, while still on it. But if the Doxepin has sedated you it is something to think about.

 

There is a thread about slow tapers entitled The Slowness of Slow Tapers that might encourage you.

 

Good luck!

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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Here it is: 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2364-the-slowness-of-slow-tapers/

 

It's a long thread that has evolved over the years, you might not want to read the whole thing. 

 

I'm doing an extremely long multi-drug taper and it's going very well.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

Oct 2022       4.5 mg Lamictal    (off Celexa, off Xanax)   0.95 Valium    Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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Thank you Cymbalta for the thread.  Very encouraging.  Its just that I have to be on Zoloft for a very long time because I have to slow taper it or risk even worse chemical chaos.  But it is good to know that PGAD can be reversed.  This morning the intensity has dropped and spikes here and there which leaves me moaning.  I have so many horrible things wrong with my brain but this is the one thing that keeps me suicidal.  I have gone through truly bizarre and horrifying symptoms since my first c/t in 1981 but this one is #1. 

 

Do you know of anyone who has had a visual space reduction so that everything looks 2x as close as it is?  And it stays 24/7.  And has been escalating since last year...

1971-81  Valium 5mg c/t PAWS     1992- through now Zoloft 25mg    2003-05 Valium 12mg Slow Taper Off

2013 Afrin Exposure to CNS    2013 O/D Val 230mg    2013 Doxepin 50mg Clonidine 2mg Zoloft 25mg

3/15/16  Doxepin 49mg Micro Tapering  Zoloft 24.3mg Holding taper

3/15/16 Clonidine mg 0.1 1/2 -    Decreasing incrementally.  DISCONTINUED

10/9/16  Doxepin 48.9  Zoloft 24.3  Clonidine  01.10  Continuing micro taper on Doxepin.

11/16/16 Doxepin 48mg  Zoloft 24.3mg  Clonidine 1.30mg

5/4/17  Doxepin 45mg  Zoloft 24mg  Clonidine 1.20mg   Micro taper of Doxepin  , Clonidine

01/13/19  Doxepin 45mg   Zoloft 21mg   Will start Micro taper of Doxepin 2/19

12/21/21  Doxepin 20 mg ?  Reducing using water micro taper--Pulling 24ml from 75ml

12/2121   Zoloft .060 grams by weight--HOLDING (info from post added by CC: On 12/21/21 my dosage was .060grams by weight or 20mg. )

26 Apr 2022 - Zoloft at -0-

 

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Welcome, SelmaLady.

 

Which of your drugs were you put on when, in what order? How long have you been on doxepin and clonidine? What are they supposed to do for you?

 

What happened 2 days ago? Did you forget a dose of something, or add a drug or supplement?

 

It sounds to me like the doxepin might be a primary culprit , thanks to the drug interactions so helpfully posted by mammaP.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Thank you Alto for getting back to me

 

I was given Zoloft in 1990 after a horrific c/t Valium w/d.  I have taken it for 23 years at 25mg.  I was given the Doxepin and Clonidine in the hospital after my Valium o/d.  My husband remembered that I had originally put on Ludiomil in the '80's for severe depression (was switched to the Zoloft) and thot that I was depressed (I wasn't.  I had horrific akathisia and LSD reality).  The dumb doctor actually gave me Doxepin because Ludiomil has been restricted due to stroke incidents. I told her about the akathisia and she put me on Clonidine to "quiet the body".  I tried to get off of both of them when I got home but my brain was in such chaos that when I tried it went truly off the charts.  I had started to get some better when I had to take penicillin for a gum infection and that sent me into an escalating up regulation and one year now of increasingly bizarre symptoms. This last escalation came from trying to covert the Doxepin capsule powder over to a water taper--was doing 10% cross over every few days---hit the fan when I got to 70% liquid--akathisia back leading to PGAD (which has quieted a great deal today).

1971-81  Valium 5mg c/t PAWS     1992- through now Zoloft 25mg    2003-05 Valium 12mg Slow Taper Off

2013 Afrin Exposure to CNS    2013 O/D Val 230mg    2013 Doxepin 50mg Clonidine 2mg Zoloft 25mg

3/15/16  Doxepin 49mg Micro Tapering  Zoloft 24.3mg Holding taper

3/15/16 Clonidine mg 0.1 1/2 -    Decreasing incrementally.  DISCONTINUED

10/9/16  Doxepin 48.9  Zoloft 24.3  Clonidine  01.10  Continuing micro taper on Doxepin.

11/16/16 Doxepin 48mg  Zoloft 24.3mg  Clonidine 1.30mg

5/4/17  Doxepin 45mg  Zoloft 24mg  Clonidine 1.20mg   Micro taper of Doxepin  , Clonidine

01/13/19  Doxepin 45mg   Zoloft 21mg   Will start Micro taper of Doxepin 2/19

12/21/21  Doxepin 20 mg ?  Reducing using water micro taper--Pulling 24ml from 75ml

12/2121   Zoloft .060 grams by weight--HOLDING (info from post added by CC: On 12/21/21 my dosage was .060grams by weight or 20mg. )

26 Apr 2022 - Zoloft at -0-

 

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How are you taking doxepin now?

 

See Tips for tapering doxepin (Sinequan, Zonalon)

 

It comes in 10mg and 25mg capsules. You don't have to convert it all to a liquid to taper.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Well, I seem to be stuck now with 1/2 water and 1/2 capsule.  My husband is computing all of this and backed it up to the 50/50.  I got what in hindsight (how I hate that!) was bad advice to convert to liquid taper for a micro taper (teeny reduction every day to reduce stress on the system).  If I had to do this over I would just cut from the powder.  My husband was also reluctant to try and do a powder reduction but is now quite comfortable with the powder.

 

I had posted a question on the Tapering site but I don't see it now.  I was told to taper at the rate of 1 year for every five of the SSRI, so that means 4 years for 25mg Zoloft. Also told to taper both Dox and Zoloft together --  But do I really need to taper together to that extent or can I reduce the length of time of the Doxepin as I agree with you that its causing a LOT of problems.  I do believe tho, that the initial reaction to the Afrin (oxymetazoline) was a amping up of the action of the Zoloft as it caused me to have EXTREME akathisia and horrible DR/DP and perceptual distortions which I understand is from the excitation of those neurotransmitter sites that Zoloft works on. I believe that Valium OD actually dampened down the system because I had no akathisia until I took the penicillin 9 mths after the Valium.

1971-81  Valium 5mg c/t PAWS     1992- through now Zoloft 25mg    2003-05 Valium 12mg Slow Taper Off

2013 Afrin Exposure to CNS    2013 O/D Val 230mg    2013 Doxepin 50mg Clonidine 2mg Zoloft 25mg

3/15/16  Doxepin 49mg Micro Tapering  Zoloft 24.3mg Holding taper

3/15/16 Clonidine mg 0.1 1/2 -    Decreasing incrementally.  DISCONTINUED

10/9/16  Doxepin 48.9  Zoloft 24.3  Clonidine  01.10  Continuing micro taper on Doxepin.

11/16/16 Doxepin 48mg  Zoloft 24.3mg  Clonidine 1.30mg

5/4/17  Doxepin 45mg  Zoloft 24mg  Clonidine 1.20mg   Micro taper of Doxepin  , Clonidine

01/13/19  Doxepin 45mg   Zoloft 21mg   Will start Micro taper of Doxepin 2/19

12/21/21  Doxepin 20 mg ?  Reducing using water micro taper--Pulling 24ml from 75ml

12/2121   Zoloft .060 grams by weight--HOLDING (info from post added by CC: On 12/21/21 my dosage was .060grams by weight or 20mg. )

26 Apr 2022 - Zoloft at -0-

 

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  • Administrator

Don't worry about converting the doxepin entirely to liquid.

 

All you need to do is decide on what rate of taper you want to try, reducing the liquid.

 

See Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases

 

I don't believe you posted here, you must have posted on Ann Blake Tracy's site or somewhere. We don't make calculations like one year of tapering for every 5. Each person simply tapers at the rate they're comfortable.

 

We also don't advocate reducing more than one drug at a time, unless there's a compelling reason for it. That introduces too many random factors into the situation.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • Administrator

I found your topic in Tapering and merged it here. Your Intro topic is the place to put questions about your particular situation.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Hi Selma.

I'm sorry you're going through this. I did too fast a taper off ZOLOFT. I took it ten years ago for a year or two, then stopped. Started taking it again this year for two months and i hated it and tapered too fast. It's been 8 weeks off of it and im still struggling with terrible insomnia. My heart goes out to you. There is hope. I love yoga and ways tell myself "I bend, so I don't break" and that helps. And I'm not even that good at yoga. Thoughts are with you friend.

Took zoloft for 8 weeks. Tapered off, but not very well. Highest dose was 50mg for 4 weeks, then 25mg for three, then tapered too fast. I am 7 weeks being off completely, but seriously crippling insomnia. I can deal with every single other symptom but the insomnia is slowly killing me. I am on magnesium and occasional holy basil. That seems to help. I feel like I am going crazy. I am a photographer and hygienist and need my energy my two kids and my work. Also took Tylenol PM for 20 years. Have been off of that completely for 4 months. I am sure that is part of the problem, for I understand that histamine is also a neurotransmitter. What have I done to myself :/

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Thank you, Alto.  I have planned to taper the Dox at 2% for this month and then increase a bit if I don't have any huge amp up.  That liquid conversion sent me almost into constant hysteria so I think I'll just leave the 50/50 for now.  The taper of the Zoloft is so miniscule at this point that I don't think it will affect  much of anything at this point but I do believe that I need to get it out of my system over time. 

1971-81  Valium 5mg c/t PAWS     1992- through now Zoloft 25mg    2003-05 Valium 12mg Slow Taper Off

2013 Afrin Exposure to CNS    2013 O/D Val 230mg    2013 Doxepin 50mg Clonidine 2mg Zoloft 25mg

3/15/16  Doxepin 49mg Micro Tapering  Zoloft 24.3mg Holding taper

3/15/16 Clonidine mg 0.1 1/2 -    Decreasing incrementally.  DISCONTINUED

10/9/16  Doxepin 48.9  Zoloft 24.3  Clonidine  01.10  Continuing micro taper on Doxepin.

11/16/16 Doxepin 48mg  Zoloft 24.3mg  Clonidine 1.30mg

5/4/17  Doxepin 45mg  Zoloft 24mg  Clonidine 1.20mg   Micro taper of Doxepin  , Clonidine

01/13/19  Doxepin 45mg   Zoloft 21mg   Will start Micro taper of Doxepin 2/19

12/21/21  Doxepin 20 mg ?  Reducing using water micro taper--Pulling 24ml from 75ml

12/2121   Zoloft .060 grams by weight--HOLDING (info from post added by CC: On 12/21/21 my dosage was .060grams by weight or 20mg. )

26 Apr 2022 - Zoloft at -0-

 

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From reading your intro, it sounds like you are in a complicated place. My heart goes out to you. From that place, it is almost impossible to make predictions. The risk is that the epinephrine-enhancing (wrong word, but hopefully you know what I mean) could cause problems, but I don't think it is as likely with a SSRI as if you were stopping a very sedating drug, like a benzo or antipsychotic, while still on it. But if the Doxepin has sedated you it is something to think about.

 

There is a thread about slow tapers entitled The Slowness of Slow Tapers that might encourage you.

 

Good luck!

Thank you so much for your thots and support!  I think too that the Doxepin is a real problem in that it increases the effects of a least 4 different brain systems including the stimulating one you mention.  It also has an anti-psychotic type action the way of having an anti-hystamine component and its that component that cause the drowsiness as I understand it.  I know that it is probably helping me to sleep but honestly, I was sleeping really well even after the exposure to the oxymetazoline.  It's only been since I took the penicillin last January that my system began to steadily amp further and further.  I am in a 3-4 day cycle of ever escalating symptoms and have been for the last 11 months.  TOXIC for sure but can't do anything that would cause any shocks --- a "catch 22" for sure.  Very frightening.  I'll go look at the Slow Taper thread.  Thank you!

 

Can you tell me what the "Walsh Protocol" is?  I read your signature---unthinkable what has been given to you.  How are you doing?

1971-81  Valium 5mg c/t PAWS     1992- through now Zoloft 25mg    2003-05 Valium 12mg Slow Taper Off

2013 Afrin Exposure to CNS    2013 O/D Val 230mg    2013 Doxepin 50mg Clonidine 2mg Zoloft 25mg

3/15/16  Doxepin 49mg Micro Tapering  Zoloft 24.3mg Holding taper

3/15/16 Clonidine mg 0.1 1/2 -    Decreasing incrementally.  DISCONTINUED

10/9/16  Doxepin 48.9  Zoloft 24.3  Clonidine  01.10  Continuing micro taper on Doxepin.

11/16/16 Doxepin 48mg  Zoloft 24.3mg  Clonidine 1.30mg

5/4/17  Doxepin 45mg  Zoloft 24mg  Clonidine 1.20mg   Micro taper of Doxepin  , Clonidine

01/13/19  Doxepin 45mg   Zoloft 21mg   Will start Micro taper of Doxepin 2/19

12/21/21  Doxepin 20 mg ?  Reducing using water micro taper--Pulling 24ml from 75ml

12/2121   Zoloft .060 grams by weight--HOLDING (info from post added by CC: On 12/21/21 my dosage was .060grams by weight or 20mg. )

26 Apr 2022 - Zoloft at -0-

 

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Hi Selma.

I'm sorry you're going through this. I did too fast a taper off ZOLOFT. I took it ten years ago for a year or two, then stopped. Started taking it again this year for two months and i hated it and tapered too fast. It's been 8 weeks off of it and im still struggling with terrible insomnia. My heart goes out to you. There is hope. I love yoga and ways tell myself "I bend, so I don't break" and that helps. And I'm not even that good at yoga. Thoughts are with you friend.

Hi and thank you.  I'm sorry that you're have bad insomnia.  That in itself is a special kind of torture, I know.  If yoga helps you, that's great.  All I can do right now is to pace the house and the front porch.  Since I just developed the PGAD I've not found it as helpful as "just" akathisia---nothing really seems to help with that.  It was much much better today and I'm hoping it can calm itself down.  I HATE ZOLOFT.  23 years of being held prisoner. 

 

I really do think that you'll see some good relief before too much longer ..  will be praying .  xoxo

1971-81  Valium 5mg c/t PAWS     1992- through now Zoloft 25mg    2003-05 Valium 12mg Slow Taper Off

2013 Afrin Exposure to CNS    2013 O/D Val 230mg    2013 Doxepin 50mg Clonidine 2mg Zoloft 25mg

3/15/16  Doxepin 49mg Micro Tapering  Zoloft 24.3mg Holding taper

3/15/16 Clonidine mg 0.1 1/2 -    Decreasing incrementally.  DISCONTINUED

10/9/16  Doxepin 48.9  Zoloft 24.3  Clonidine  01.10  Continuing micro taper on Doxepin.

11/16/16 Doxepin 48mg  Zoloft 24.3mg  Clonidine 1.30mg

5/4/17  Doxepin 45mg  Zoloft 24mg  Clonidine 1.20mg   Micro taper of Doxepin  , Clonidine

01/13/19  Doxepin 45mg   Zoloft 21mg   Will start Micro taper of Doxepin 2/19

12/21/21  Doxepin 20 mg ?  Reducing using water micro taper--Pulling 24ml from 75ml

12/2121   Zoloft .060 grams by weight--HOLDING (info from post added by CC: On 12/21/21 my dosage was .060grams by weight or 20mg. )

26 Apr 2022 - Zoloft at -0-

 

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Can you tell me what the "Walsh Protocol" is?  I read your signature---unthinkable what has been given to you.  How are you doing?

 

First, I have one more comment about tapering. Another option is to taper one drug for a period of time, then hold it while tapering partway on another drug, etc. If I were starting over (thankful I am not!) I think I would try that, as there is such a shifting when one of the cards in the house of cards is taken away. Many options, no guarantees.

 

About the Walsh Protocol, there is a thread entitled "Mensah Medical." In all honesty, I have more questions than answers, but their supplements have greatly helped me. Just from reading your history of medication misadventures, I suspect they would consider you as being a prime suspect for a methylation problem. Anyway, I went there in May in a state of great anxiety. They suspected me of being hard-wired for overmethylation, but having become undermethylated, which sounded quite severe, but the blood testing only showed a copper problem and I have food allergies from a "leaky gut." But their treatment and the paleo autoimmune diet have really helped me. We are spending a lot of money, but I am amazed that I am going to try switching to full-time status at my job next month, so it has turned out to be worth it for us. I also just started seeing a new pdoc who has me switching from a benzo to inositol...I have come off half of the maintenance dose since November. I have had symptoms, but they have been manageable, but I do wonder if I will explode in the end. I don't know if you read an article in Mad in America by Dr. Shipko about how he had tried every medicine but nothing helped withdrawal, but for some reason that really lit a fire under me. So I have been taking some risks in experimenting...it sort of gives me some meaning to this experience. It is so intense and uniquely personal for each of us.

 

I did akathisia back in 2006 and it is really tough. But PGAD is beyond my imagination. I really hope you feel better soon.

 

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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I am tapering so so so slowly the Zoloft that for right now, I think if will ok to taper them both at the same time.  I am being certain that I don't go over a 5% cut including both in that percentage.  If I run into trouble I'll have to drop the Zoloft taper.  But I'm not anticipating any real reaction to the super slow Zoloft taper until I get to 12.5 which seems to be the cut off for a "theraputic" effect and a place where the brain can get really upset with cuts.  At that time, if I can stay on schedule with the Doxepin, I should have just the Zoloft to deal with.  This is all a great theory but I know from experience that the brain has a mind of its own..

 

I'm sure I have a methylation problem!  I do just a bit about pathways and things, but very little really.  I had a DNA testing done by 23andMe but have not been well enough to have a go at interpreting it.   From what I've read, I'm quite certain that the pathways that Doxepin uses have mutated genes.  Zoloft does not use the same pathways and I really have had no problem with it all these years until the Afrin hit my brain. 

 

Its really good that you have the help and support you need to heal.    Did you mean that you are going to just switch from a benzo to inositol?  What benzo are you taking?  What's the mg?  What's a maintenance does?  Sorry if I'm asking too many questions.  Just concerned about dropping a benzo.

 

i have been in touch with Dr Sipko.  At one time I thot that going back on Valium might subdue the chaos in my brain.  He was willing to put me on Valium but was unable to because he is in California and I am here in Oregon.   It turned out that I can no longer tolerate Valium anyway--had a paradoxical reaction to it when I took just a small amount last Spring.  I know that he has put several patients on a large amount of Valium to stop drug induced akathisia.  He says he has had successes with that.  He also said that he would not counsel anyone who had been on SSRI's for more than 10 years to ever come off of them because the w/d would be protracted and not turn out well.  Scared me to death.  Since then I've been in contact with several ladies who have successfully tapered off SSRI's after 20 years of use.  Dr Sipko is a scary person to me...

 

Today the PGAD was minimal, even absent this evening.  I tend to run in cycles so I'm thinking this is just another cycle and will choose to believe that one day it will cycle itself out of here!  Only people who have experienced akathisia can understand the torment, huh?  xoxo

1971-81  Valium 5mg c/t PAWS     1992- through now Zoloft 25mg    2003-05 Valium 12mg Slow Taper Off

2013 Afrin Exposure to CNS    2013 O/D Val 230mg    2013 Doxepin 50mg Clonidine 2mg Zoloft 25mg

3/15/16  Doxepin 49mg Micro Tapering  Zoloft 24.3mg Holding taper

3/15/16 Clonidine mg 0.1 1/2 -    Decreasing incrementally.  DISCONTINUED

10/9/16  Doxepin 48.9  Zoloft 24.3  Clonidine  01.10  Continuing micro taper on Doxepin.

11/16/16 Doxepin 48mg  Zoloft 24.3mg  Clonidine 1.30mg

5/4/17  Doxepin 45mg  Zoloft 24mg  Clonidine 1.20mg   Micro taper of Doxepin  , Clonidine

01/13/19  Doxepin 45mg   Zoloft 21mg   Will start Micro taper of Doxepin 2/19

12/21/21  Doxepin 20 mg ?  Reducing using water micro taper--Pulling 24ml from 75ml

12/2121   Zoloft .060 grams by weight--HOLDING (info from post added by CC: On 12/21/21 my dosage was .060grams by weight or 20mg. )

26 Apr 2022 - Zoloft at -0-

 

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i have been in touch with Dr Sipko.  At one time I thot that going back on Valium might subdue the chaos in my brain.  He was willing to put me on Valium but was unable to because he is in California and I am here in Oregon.   It turned out that I can no longer tolerate Valium anyway--had a paradoxical reaction to it when I took just a small amount last Spring.  I know that he has put several patients on a large amount of Valium to stop drug induced akathisia.  He says he has had successes with that.  He also said that he would not counsel anyone who had been on SSRI's for more than 10 years to ever come off of them because the w/d would be protracted and not turn out well.  Scared me to death.  Since then I've been in contact with several ladies who have successfully tapered off SSRI's after 20 years of use.  Dr Sipko is a scary person to me...

 

 

Shipko is very scary. I have spoken with him. The way I see it is, If we stay on these drugs forever they will turn on us and we will get akathesia anyway. You have it and are still on the drugs. I've had it in the past as a kindling effect of prozac and while trying to quit Remeron. Seems almost hopeless either way. I will chance it and try to get off the drugs. I know I'm doomed if I stay on them.

 

I think  my doc somewhat agrees with shipko He told me that if I quit the AD and the problem comes back, it gets much harder to treat.

 

I will keep you in my prayers. I believe we need divine intervention from God/Jesus on some of these things.

Prozac 1999-2009 quit semi cold turkey.

 

2012 Placed on Seroquel 25 mg, Tranxene (Clorezepate) 3.75 mg 3x a day, Remeron 30 mg for anxiety/akathesia.

 

Weaned off Seroquel and Tranxene .to Remeron 15 Mg.

In May 2014 tried quitting Remeron at its lowest dose. Had severe withdrawals.Reinstated Remeron at 30 mg by doctor. August 5 2014 entered hospital. Doctor pulled the Remeron and bridged it to Pamelor (Nortriptyline) 40mg and Zyprexa 2.5mg.After removing the Remeron all my bad symptoms went away and I am stable.

 

9/11/14 - 7.5 mg tranxene, 40mg Pamelor, Zyprexa 2.5mg

12/29/14 -  20mg Pamelor, 1/6/15,  7/31/15 3.5mg, 8/10/15 3.2 mg, 9/15/15 2.2mg, 10/15/15 1.8mg

(Feb 2016 - 1.4mg Pamelor only -  OFF OF TRANXENE AND ZYPREXA SINCE DEC 2014 BENZO FREE Since 2014. Nortrityline (Pamelor) .8mg Aug 2016

March 2017 DRUG FREE

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((Chicken))  Yes.  We do need God's intervention and healing.  I lean completely on Jesus to get me through each moment.  I have to trust that He knows His plans for me.  I will surely keep you in my prayers also.

 

When you talked to Shipko, what did he say?  I'm sorry but I'm not familiar with your drugs except for the Zyprexa which I think is an antipsychotic? It seemed risky to pull the Remeron like that but blessedly, it worked for you.  You got akathisia when you stopped the Remeron?  You said at lowest dose--how long did you taper it and who decided it was the lowest dose? Seems like your system just didn't work with Remeron anyway.  Looks like you have been tapering the Tranzene and Zyprexa and are now on the Pamelor only--- How are you doing? 

1971-81  Valium 5mg c/t PAWS     1992- through now Zoloft 25mg    2003-05 Valium 12mg Slow Taper Off

2013 Afrin Exposure to CNS    2013 O/D Val 230mg    2013 Doxepin 50mg Clonidine 2mg Zoloft 25mg

3/15/16  Doxepin 49mg Micro Tapering  Zoloft 24.3mg Holding taper

3/15/16 Clonidine mg 0.1 1/2 -    Decreasing incrementally.  DISCONTINUED

10/9/16  Doxepin 48.9  Zoloft 24.3  Clonidine  01.10  Continuing micro taper on Doxepin.

11/16/16 Doxepin 48mg  Zoloft 24.3mg  Clonidine 1.30mg

5/4/17  Doxepin 45mg  Zoloft 24mg  Clonidine 1.20mg   Micro taper of Doxepin  , Clonidine

01/13/19  Doxepin 45mg   Zoloft 21mg   Will start Micro taper of Doxepin 2/19

12/21/21  Doxepin 20 mg ?  Reducing using water micro taper--Pulling 24ml from 75ml

12/2121   Zoloft .060 grams by weight--HOLDING (info from post added by CC: On 12/21/21 my dosage was .060grams by weight or 20mg. )

26 Apr 2022 - Zoloft at -0-

 

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  • Administrator

Dr. Shipko means well, he wants to protect his patients from prolonged withdrawal syndrome. Since he cannot guarantee a good outcome for people who have been on antidepressants for many years, he takes a conservative position about going off them.

 

SelmaLady, a 5% taper of Zoloft might not be much to you, but it could be quite an upset to your nervous system. If I were you, I would hold on tapering Zoloft until you understand your doxepin taper pattern.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

As someone who's been doing a multiple med taper for five years now, I agree with Alto: Start with just one and learn how your body reacts to that taper. Learn what symptoms you can expect, and how they unfold and interact over time, and what happens with the next cut, and with a series of three cuts. 

 

Once you've got a good feel for tapering doxepin (give it four to six months or so) then you can add in a small cut in the Zoloft and see how that interacts.  Do the same thing with the Zoloft, observe how the taper works and how the symptoms come on, unfold and resolve over time, for a while, again probably about four to six months or so.

 

It is SO much easier to taper multiple meds when you have a pretty good handle on what they're doing individually and how they're interacting with each other. And you're going to be at this for a few years, so it's worth doing the prep work/homework up front to give yourself a better chance at success.

 

Also, I rarely cut two meds at the same time. I generally stagger the cuts, or focus more on one for a while and then focus more on another one. 

 

I like your idea of shooting for a total of no more than 5% cuts with all meds combined. I do that too, add up the percentages of each cut to get a total. It can add up faster than you think so that's a good thing to stay on top of.

 

Just some stuff to think about. Overall I think you're approaching this sensibly.

 

Personally I am absolutely delighted with the results of the multi-med taper and bringing everything down together. I'm so glad I've done it this way.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

Oct 2022       4.5 mg Lamictal    (off Celexa, off Xanax)   0.95 Valium    Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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Yes I know that Dr Sipko probably means well.  But it is a terrifying statement to say what he has said.  I did talk to to someone on another site who says that he has amended his beliefs to less fearful outcome but to state that outright was less than kind to me.  Does he take his patients through an extended withdrawal do you know?  And has it been these patients who took a very long and cautious taper who still went on to an unresolved outcome?  I know there are those who still struggle with akathisia, but I don't know what the background is on these patients... I can't believe that we are supposed to stay on a chemical for life--into our 80's or 90's??  I had not planned on tapering Zoloft either until the reaction to the Afrin and the subsequent spiraling reaction to penicillin.  But now I have no choice.

 

When I said a 5% reduction, I was including the Doxepin reduction of 4% and the Zoloft of 1%.  I would never taper an SSRI at 5%!!  I don't know if you are aware of what's going on with my brain chemistry but every 3 to 4 days, my perception of space shrinks.  What once looked like it was 20 feet away from me now looks like it is 10 feet away.  And it continues to shrink every 3 to 4 days. And has been doing so for 10 months.  No one can tell me what is going on in my brain but since serotonin is involved with perception, I have to assume it has something to do with the excess of this in my brain. 

1971-81  Valium 5mg c/t PAWS     1992- through now Zoloft 25mg    2003-05 Valium 12mg Slow Taper Off

2013 Afrin Exposure to CNS    2013 O/D Val 230mg    2013 Doxepin 50mg Clonidine 2mg Zoloft 25mg

3/15/16  Doxepin 49mg Micro Tapering  Zoloft 24.3mg Holding taper

3/15/16 Clonidine mg 0.1 1/2 -    Decreasing incrementally.  DISCONTINUED

10/9/16  Doxepin 48.9  Zoloft 24.3  Clonidine  01.10  Continuing micro taper on Doxepin.

11/16/16 Doxepin 48mg  Zoloft 24.3mg  Clonidine 1.30mg

5/4/17  Doxepin 45mg  Zoloft 24mg  Clonidine 1.20mg   Micro taper of Doxepin  , Clonidine

01/13/19  Doxepin 45mg   Zoloft 21mg   Will start Micro taper of Doxepin 2/19

12/21/21  Doxepin 20 mg ?  Reducing using water micro taper--Pulling 24ml from 75ml

12/2121   Zoloft .060 grams by weight--HOLDING (info from post added by CC: On 12/21/21 my dosage was .060grams by weight or 20mg. )

26 Apr 2022 - Zoloft at -0-

 

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I'm sorry Rhi.  I didn't see your post---I was responding to Alto.  But can you see how terrifying this is?  Why is my brain continuing to alter my perception.  It is not only space, but words no longer look the same.  And I have lost any feeling of myself at all.  I have no perceptual tie to my surroundings.  I am as you can imagine, horrified and fighting suicidal needs continually.   I have no one who can tell me what is happening to me or what my outcome would be.  I am destroyed.

1971-81  Valium 5mg c/t PAWS     1992- through now Zoloft 25mg    2003-05 Valium 12mg Slow Taper Off

2013 Afrin Exposure to CNS    2013 O/D Val 230mg    2013 Doxepin 50mg Clonidine 2mg Zoloft 25mg

3/15/16  Doxepin 49mg Micro Tapering  Zoloft 24.3mg Holding taper

3/15/16 Clonidine mg 0.1 1/2 -    Decreasing incrementally.  DISCONTINUED

10/9/16  Doxepin 48.9  Zoloft 24.3  Clonidine  01.10  Continuing micro taper on Doxepin.

11/16/16 Doxepin 48mg  Zoloft 24.3mg  Clonidine 1.30mg

5/4/17  Doxepin 45mg  Zoloft 24mg  Clonidine 1.20mg   Micro taper of Doxepin  , Clonidine

01/13/19  Doxepin 45mg   Zoloft 21mg   Will start Micro taper of Doxepin 2/19

12/21/21  Doxepin 20 mg ?  Reducing using water micro taper--Pulling 24ml from 75ml

12/2121   Zoloft .060 grams by weight--HOLDING (info from post added by CC: On 12/21/21 my dosage was .060grams by weight or 20mg. )

26 Apr 2022 - Zoloft at -0-

 

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It's incredibly, indescribably terrifying and awful. My heart goes out to you.

 

The only thing I can offer in consolation is that I have seen people suffering as greatly as you many, many times, and I have seen them improve, and stabilize, and get back their center and their joy and comfort in life. Maybe not every second of every day is perfect, but the agony does pass, it does get better.

 

That's not a lot of help when you're in the middle of it, I know. Hang in there.

 

You might do some searches around the forum under "derealization and depersonalization" or DP/DR or DR/DP, just to read other peoples' stories.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

May 2021            7                       0.01                  0.0037                1

Feb 2022            6                      0!!!                     0.00167               0.98                2.5 mg Ambien

Oct 2022       4.5 mg Lamictal    (off Celexa, off Xanax)   0.95 Valium    Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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SelmaLady. I am going to repost the information from the drugs interactions checker that mammaP did for you:

 

interaction-3-big.png doxepin ↔ sertraline

Applies to: doxepin, Zoloft (sertraline)

Before taking doxepin, tell your doctor if you also use sertraline. You may need dose adjustments or special tests in order to safely take both medications together. This combination may increase the effects of doxepin in your body. You should notify your doctor if you have symptoms of sedation, dry mouth, blurred vision, constipation, or urinary retention. You might also have altered consciousness, confusion, poor muscle coordination, abdominal cramping, shivering, pupillary dilation, sweating, high blood pressure, and high heart rate. It is important that you tell your healthcare provider about all other medications that you are using including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using your medications without first talking to your doctor first.

 

I have highlighted in red those things that pertain to vision. It sounds as the doxepin is potentiating the effects of zoloft (making it stronger). This could be why your vision is reacting the way that it is. It may get better as you reduce the dosages of your meds.

What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

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  • Member

I have no one who can tell me what is happening to me or what my outcome would be.  I am destroyed.

 

Ah, but you have us! We are telling you that some of these experiences have a common ground in withdrawal and for a lot of the people that we see, things improve, they get better and most of them fly away to continue their lives healthy and happy. We continually remind people of this because it is true, not wishful thinking. WD alters your thinking and your perceptions. We counter those 'perceptions' with the reality of healing.

What happened and how I arrived here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4243-cymbaltawithdrawal5600-introduction/#entry50878

 

July 2016 I have decided to leave my story here at SA unfinished. I have left my contact information in my profile for anyone who wishes to talk to me. I have a posting history spanning nearly 4 years and 3000+ posts all over the site.

 

Thank you to all who participated in my recovery. I'll miss talking to you but know that I'll be cheering you on from the sidelines, suffering and rejoicing with you in spirit, as you go on in your journey.

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  • Administrator

SelmaLady, I would not taper Zoloft even at 1% while you're tapering doxepin. It confuses the adverse reactions picture too much.

 

As you reduce the doxepin, the drug-drug interaction with Zoloft should decrease.

 

Dr. Shipko helps people go off drugs once they understand the outcome is not guaranteed and may lead to a long recovery from withdrawal.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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