Drummerseve: im guessing im going through effexor withdrawal?

[drummerseve]

So I figured its time i start a thread on what I'm dealing with. I was on PP for a cpl years but was tapering and keeping in touch with people while doing it. I tapered slowly for a yrs and a half until i got to ten beads and that was my last does at about months worth. Well, now im 6-7 weeks off effexor(paxil before that) after a long taper. The first two weeks seemed very smooth. I was in jamaica for week three and that was tough at points but i was still sleepin ok and feelin good when i woke up. How ever, i was getting strong anxiety late at night partly due to travellers anxiety and just general anxiety. Id say the next week, seemingly over night, i started getting insanely strong symptoms. Also, ive been using klonopin as well for 6-7 months at 1 mg a day and lately started using them every day or two days and noticed the symptoms worsened 5x times over. So i made sure i would use them every day and deal with one war at a time. They seem to help maybe 10 percent with what i think is a delayed effexor withdrawal. My symptoms are pretty much unbearable.

 

Although i dont have the zaps the nausea, the wooshing or ringing in my ears like some people but ive been getting other almost indescribable symptoms like overwhelming guilt, extreme short fuse and temper, crazy mood swings, trouble focusing, sick feelings, extreme panic attacks that go from 1 to 10 in a heart beat.

 

Ive dealt with anxiety and panic attacks all my life but this is on another level. Oh, and really messed up sleep problems. I mean I sleep fine when im asleep but cant sleep passed a certain time and im awaken by horrible dread, depression, earworms (songs repeating over and over like crazy) massive anxiety, mind racing, no energy, almost no libido and the worst are the intrusive and suicidal thoughts like harming myself or others, that give me even more insane anxiety cuz i have the thoughts. I would never act on em but they still really scare me. all of these symptoms come on strong and let off through out the whole day. I've been feeling this way now for 4-5 weeks my mind feels weak and im feeling hopeless. Im starting to have all these "what if" scenarios like "what of i act on these thoughts one day if i just can't take it anymore"(worried ill be like this forever) or will i end up like one of those people who cant deal with life anymore and i do something bad to myself. Like i said theyre thoughts and ive never harmed myself and am terrified by the thoughts. It just seems like normal things(worries or anxieties)are exasperated 100%. And its worse cuz i cant get my mind off of them becuz theyre so overwhelming

 

. Im a very fit and active person. I have a personal trainer 3 days a week and a martial arts trainer 2-3 other days a week along with being in bands who have toured and made albums and played shows for 15 yrs. Now i dread just facing each day. I dread the nights( thats when my anxiety seems overpowering),going to bed and waking up. Ive lost interest in everything i loved literally weeks ago and it seemed to have happened over night....out of nowhere. Even my feelings seemed to have changed in a day for the girl im in a relationship with. The girl is my best friend along with being my gf. She is the best thing thats ever happened to me which makes me feel guilty of even thinkin like that, which in turn causes extreme anxiety. And i have doubts if i should be in a relationship at all but i know id feel like i couldnt live without her and she loves me and helps me so much with what im going through. Shes so supportive even tho she doesnt suffer anything. Im sorry for the rant but i wanted to get everything i could out.

 

Can anyone relate or tell me if they think this is due to withdrawal? Im just lookin for some hope cuz lately i have none. Will i make it through and be normal again? Im living hell every day. Also the last thing is when i force myself to go to the gym, exercise seems to make all of these feelings even worse. The higher i get my heart up the worse i feel. Im so lost i dont know what to do. Im paralyzed.

Edited April 8, 2017 by scallywag
tags; previous - paragraph breaks for readability

[mammaP]

Hi Drummerserve, thank you for posting and introducing yourself. I can certainly relate, I tapered effexor for a year then

when I was at 5 beads I forgot my dose, I felt fine and  thought I was ready. A month later I was in withdrawal and getting

worse by the day. I reinstated and started to feel better quite quickly but it has been windows and waves since. It was several

months before I was ready to start tapering again. Do you have any left?  I would reinstate 5 beads and see how it goes.

When you have stabilised you can then start to taper off those few beads,  

Effexor is a nasty drug to get off and it is so easy to think that it is just a few beads and can't possibly be doing anything! 

 

Reinstating is best done as soon as possible after stopping but hopefully you will be ok at 6-7 weeks off. I honestly don't 

know how I would have coped if I hadn't reinstated, and was suicidal  at times. There have been windows and waves 

as I said but the waves get less and less ubtil they are ripples not tsunamies! 

 

I'm sure you will have seen them but here are some links for you to look at. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3079-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-stop-withdrawal-symptoms/   

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/603-what-is-withdrawal-syndrome/

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Here is a link to your previous postings that might be pertinent to your thread.

[Ever]

Hi drummerseve.   I don't know anything about your drug, but I've always 'crashed' a few weeks after getting to zero paxil.   Many times.   The last time I did a 10% taper down to 3mg and was really good all the way down (this was while being at paxilprogress).   Then I went away and forgot to take my pills and 'jumped off' at 3mg thinking I'd be fine.   Crashed horribly again a few weeks later.   I re-instated a couple of months ago now to 4mg and now I'm just fine.  

 

I'm really glad I found this site because they have pointed out how important it is to taper the last bits REALLY SLOWLY and I'm now resigned to taking another year or two or six to taper the last few mg.   Hopefully one of the moderators will give you this info - and I'll go try to find it myself now.  

[Ever]

Can't copy and past the link drummer - bugga -  it explains why the last tiny bits of the drug have such a profound effect on us.   I could not believe that re-instating such a tiny amount has 'fixed' all my horrible withdrawal symptoms.  

[Rhiannon]

Hi drummer! Good to see you.

 

Your symptoms sound exactly like withdrawal. It's probably due to a combination of coming off at too high a dose at the end, and tapering too fast toward the last part of the taper. (We can feel okay for a while even when tapering too fast, because as you have discovered, withdrawal symptoms have a sort of "lag time" effect where they don't kick in right away.)

 

I agree with mammaP, a partial reinstatement is probably your best bet right now, and 5 beads sounds about right. If you do try that, give it a couple of weeks before you decide if it's working for you or not. The usual response is to feel a bit better immediately but then after a few days to go back into a pattern of ups and downs (windows and waves as we call them here). That's normal and not to be alarmed over. Reinstatement doesn't "fix" withdrawal completely but it can smooth out the worst of it and keep it from getting even worse.

 

Eventually people typically do stabilize and then they're able to taper again, more slowly.

 

Keep us posted on what you decide and how it goes.

[drummerseve]

Thanks so much guys. I have been thinking about adding my beads again. I have a full bottle and refills left. For some reason i feel like im weak for going back on it. Not so much for the pride but just cuz i want it out of me so badly. I feel its made my life so hard. I hate it more than anything. Its given me a lot of resent and hate towards western medicine, doctors etc. As if i cant trust the people who are supposed to be helping us. Its effected the way i view life. Ive become very negative and i used to be the happiest person i knew. I literally used to get bugged becuz i smiled so much and so big all the tme and i feel like that person is gone and ill never be him again. Im just fed up, angry frustrated and feeling hopeless. Im glad i have a supportive gf and family and people like you guys who care enuf to help a complete stranger. It restores some of my faith in humanity. Thank u, again.

[Rhiannon]

Oops, I tried to move your stuff over from Benzo area but I think I screwed up.  Moving stuff around is not my forte. YAARRRRGGH

 

Anyway please post here now unless you have a very specific question related to a very specific topic somewhere else, thanks!

[Ever]

Quote "For some reason I feel weak for going back on it"

 

Yeah drummer - we all feel like that.   Get over it lol.   It's a story you (and the rest of us) made up and it's really dopey.

 

xxx  

[drummerseve]

Yeah, it's a story thats all too familiar.

[Babs]

You're not weak at all.  You are doing the smart thing by making it easier on yourself.  Effexor is just really really hard to get off of.  I hope you feel better soon.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

 

For some reason i feel like im weak for going back on it. Not so much for the pride but just cuz i want it out of me so badly. I feel its made my life so hard.

 

Unfortunately , it HAS made your life hard but not for the reason you think. These drugs are VERY hard to get off and the only way we know of is a safe, sane SLOW taper to minimize disruption to your system. Reinstatement is better done sooner than later and often makes the difference between suffering and just discomfort. It has nothing to do with 'strength' or 'weakness', truly.

 

Please read this, you'll be glad you did. See, it's even got a neat acronym you can repeat over and over in your mind to remind you what you are doing

[Frustrated]

I reinstated a small amount five months out.  I really felt upset and weak over that but I couldn't deal with the withdrawals.  It helped a bit with the mental but trust me the physical symptoms are still there.  I don't think it makes us weak at all.  YOu have to be able to function and only someone who is going through this can understand how bad it is.

[drummerseve]

You're not weak at all.  You are doing the smart thing by making it easier on yourself.  Effexor is just really really hard to get off of.  I hope you feel better soon.

 

Thanks very much. I just reinstated as of 5 minutes ago and will give it a shot. Now to edit my sig. Hah.

[drummerseve]

I had a question too. I try going to the gym but notice the harder i push myself or the more high intensity my workout is it seems to make my symptoms worse. Im not talking physical symptoms. Mental ones. I get extreme lows and weird feelings of anxiety. Others i cant even describe. Is that from the WD? Exercise seems to amplify everything. So messed up.

[Ever]

Yes drummer - many people find intense exercise exacerbates the wd symptoms. They recommend light exercise such as walking.

 

Glad you have re-instated and hope it works to settle things down. My tiny reinstatement to 4mg has worked really well for me - I've gone from suicidal to absolutely fine now and I will be tapering that last 4mg very very slowly now - I've learnt my lesson.

[Rhiannon]

I had a question too. I try going to the gym but notice the harder i push myself or the more high intensity my workout is it seems to make my symptoms worse. Im not talking physical symptoms. Mental ones. I get extreme lows and weird feelings of anxiety. Others i cant even describe. Is that from the WD? Exercise seems to amplify everything. So messed up.

 

Yep, that's normal and it's why I recommend gentle exercise in withdrawal. Personally I think it's probably because vigorous exercise stimulates cortisol production, and cortisol is all out of whack in withdrawal. Gentle exercise doesn't have that effect.

[drummerseve]

Makes perfect sense now. My brain would literally change as soon as it got intense. Id hit intense lows. It really messed with me. Thanks guys.

[dalsaan]

Hi Drummerseve15

 

Here is a paper that details why the last bit is really hard and why we have to taper all the way down rather than jumping off

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6036-why-taper-paper-demonstrates-importance-of-gradual-change-in-plasma-concentration/

 

I have had all the reactions you have had about being let down by the medical profession. It's part of the process and allows you to get to a better place where you take charge of your own well being and make good decisions about your health and future. Reinstating to gently support your brain health is one of those good decisions and it has nothing to do with strength or weakness.

 

D

[drummerseve]

Thanks a lot. I'm willing to give anything a shot at this point. I appreciate the support from every one of u guys.

[Wildflower0214]

Hang in there!

 

Rooting for you! I showed up here too late to reinstate..

 

Glad you have the opportunity. I think it will help u a great deal!

[ten0275]

"the worst are the intrusive and suicidal thoughts like harming myself or others, that give me even more insane anxiety cuz i have the thoughts. I would never act on em but they still really scare me."

 

Drummerseve, hey man. The intrusives were my nightmare too. I'm a peaceable kind of person in fairly all situations, so the thoughts were especially horrifying. Thoughts of not only harming myself, but others. I'd walk by someone at work with a cup of tea in my hand and think of throwing it on them. I'd see a tool lying around and couldn't look at it because I'd have a bad thought about being violent with it. Total WTF thoughts all the way. I had to keep telling myself that like you, the thoughts appalled me, and therefore I was safe. If we were truly at risk of inflicting harm, the thoughts wouldn't disturb us, and might even excite us. The good news is these go away. Mine started fading after about 8 months. That was a couple years ago. They don't come into my mind anymore. Really terrible, I feel you on this.

Hang in there.

Dave

[drummerseve]

Thanks, Dave. Its been one of the hardest things to deal with. That, my sleep disturbances, and my anger. They give me extreme lows and anxiety. I re-instated today. I guess ill see how that goes. Its appreciated.

[Ever]

Looking forward to seeing how you feel in a few days drummer

[drummerseve]

Thanks, Ever. Me too. To be honest im terrified. Feeling like this scares the **** out of me. I just wanna be the person i used to be and i worry i might never get back.

[drummerseve]

I wanted to ask you guys for your opinion on something as well. Im gonna start seeing a therapist who specializes in anxiety. Part of me doesn't know if this is worth it or not because I believe the meds are what's causing a lot of the symptoms but I still would like to work on some underlying anxiety, ocd issues that ive developed since the "poop out"...... Hate that term... but my question is my therapist also referred me to a naturopath and group therapy on top of working together but lately ive been reading about not adding supplements or meds until Ive stabilized etc. Do you guys think I should hold off on seeing this person? Could this mess with my healing process by adding "more to my plate" so to speak?

[drummerseve]

Hey guys, is it normal to feel messed up after reinstating? Ive been feeling really fuct up. Its hard to explain. Its almost similar to the feelings of when i missed a dose of effexor. Im dizzy and my mind is all over the place. Extreme dread. I feel almost in slow mo. I dont know if its from coming back on or what. Im havin a lot of messed up symptoms as of the last cpl hrs. I reinstated early this afternoon and tonight has been a nightmare. I feel shaky and nauseous and super week. When I close my eyes i feel like i have the spins. My breathing is really weird. Like tight and hard to breathe. (Inknow thats a sign of anxiety)this just feels different. Im sure im havin anxiety on top of these symptoms becuz i feel this way. Im wondering if its reinstating thats makin it worse for me now.

[Brandy]

I don't know the answer to this one. I can only tell you what I've seen in reading many people's accounts over the years.

 

Some are unable to reinstate, some people don't feel well for a while but over time it works. Also, you might need to start with even fewer beads and work up.

 

There are others better qualified to help you on this. Since you took your first dose of the RI in the afternoon, keep checking back tomorrow and see what they advise.

 

Also, I've lost track of how long you've been off effexor. It's not real clear in your signature. (Though your signature is very helpful otherwise.) Could you post how long it had been since your last dose of effexor? I think that will help people in giving you advice.

 

Hang in there. One way or another, this will get better. Really.

[drummerseve]

Thanks Brandy. Ive been off for about 6 weeks now.

[ladybug]

Wow, reading your signature it sounds eerily similar to my history. I too started Paxil at 20mg in 1998. I always had anxiety issues growing up (mostly OCD and social anxiety) but when I started smoking weed at age 16 is when my issues started to get worse so after a year or so I went on Paxil. I also pooped out around the same time you did, and so began my slooow taper. Yes, I've really been tapering since that time. I think if I had ever went back to a psychiatrist I may have taken a similar path to you, being switched to another drug, etc but I always refused because I was too terrified to try anything else. I also smoked weed heavily that entire time until 4 years ago when I quit completely. Sorry to go off topic, but it was so interesting how similar our stories were.

 

Anyway, to answer your question I think it's completely normal to have some start up effects after reinstating. Hopefully, as the days go on and your body gets used to having the drug back in your system you will begin to feel better. It just takes some time. Just try to get through each day as best you can. I wish I had some better advice for you, but when it comes to reinstatements there is not much you can do but watch and wait. Thankfully, you weren't completely off for too long so that bodes well in your favor. It's nice to meet you!

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Hey guys, is it normal to feel messed up after reinstating?  Im wondering if its reinstating thats makin it worse for me now.

 

We have a topic about reinstatement here. Perhaps reading about others experiences with it might give you some support?

 

Everyone's body reacts differently. Being off the drug makes you feel bad because your body has not compensated yet to having the drug removed (that takes time) and adding some of it back in after a time of being off takes a bit of adjustment again too. The 2 states can co-exist and it takes a while to see if it will work.

 

The reinstatement amount might have to be adjusted too. You jumped at 10 beads and came back at ten beads after 6 wks. You might have to remove some beads from your reinstatement and keep in the back of your mind that reinstatement doesn't always work.

 

Read the topic I suggested and see if anything triggers for you. There is a LOT of information in the first few posts by Alto.

[Martin]

drummerseve15, our story is very much the same... The main issue we have I think is that we've both been taking anti anxiety meds which have masked the main withdrawal symptoms... We both survived as long as we could and our central nervous systems have become severely destabilized. 

 

I had to go to a mental hospital due to crazy withdrawal symptoms - pretty much every withdrawal symptom in the book. - They understood that I had withdrawal syndrome and gave me 10 mg prozac. I have somewhat less symptoms but it is still pretty severe. I'm dearly hoping that I'll stabilize soon because this is truly hell. 

[drummerseve]

Martin, are u still on the effexor or just the Prozac? Last night was really rough. I was close to going to a hospital. I feel like death today.

[Martin]

I'm on 10 mg prozac, I'm taking 525 mg lyrica (anti anxiety med), 75 mg seroquel (for sleep) - and 2 mg slow release melatonin (also for sleep) 

 

Before I started withdrawal I was able to be on 225 mg lyrica and 50 mg seroquel, still 2 mg melatonin. I'm consistently having anxiety and jitters and feel very uncertain about it all. I've recently started playing world of warcraft just to force my mind to focus on something else than withdrawal. I seem to change between okish, and feeling really bad withdrawal. 

 

I'm pretty uncertain also about if my brain will start feeling better after having taken this prozac, but the internet is full of prozac success stories so I took that chance since I was desperate and didnt know what else to do. I seem to be doing somewhat better, wasnt able to sleep before, now I am, I also have some motivation and I dont feel violent urges which is probably some of the weirdest thing I've ever experienced. If I didnt take my lyrica then I'd be incapable of managing due to crazy anxiety and panic attacks. 

 

Its been 7 days since I started on the prozac - I hear I have to wait about 2-3 weeks before my body gets used to the prozac, so untill then its world of warcraft and lyrica for me. 

[drummerseve]

Don't suddenly go off medication assuming that reinstatement is a safety net. This is one of the reasons we advocate gradual tapering to minimize withdrawal symptoms. Once the nervous system is destabilized by withdrawal, all bets are off.

 

Medicine wants to believe the acute phase of withdrawal lasts only a few weeks. From what people have posted on the Web, it can last many months.

 

The inserts in all the newer antidepressants and many other psychiatric drugs advise reinstatement of the medication if withdrawal symptoms appear. This is all medicine knows about how to treat withdrawal.

 

Here is what is known about reinstatement, from my reading and from patient experience as posted on online support sites:

• According to medical knowledge, reinstatement is the only way to alleviate withdrawal symptoms.
• Reinstatement is best done immediately upon appearance of withdrawal symptoms. The more time that passes, the less likely it is to work.
• The length of this window of opportunity varies according to the individual. Sometimes people can reinstate successfully months after quitting. Others cannot.
• Some find a partial dose will relieve withdrawal symptoms. If, for example, you were taking 20mg Paxil and quit rapidly only a few days ago, 5mg or 10mg may be enough. Others find they need a higher dose.
• Start low to see what you need. You can always increase if necessary. If you've been off the drug for a month or more, many people can find relief from antidepressant withdrawal symptoms by reinstating as little as 1mg-5mg.
• It takes at least 4 days for your body to fully register the addition of a neuroactive drug. Unless you have an immediate bad reaction, observe your symptom pattern for about a week to see if the reinstatement is helping. If you have an immediate bad reaction, reduce or stop taking the drug.

   

  Other reasons to reinstate only a partial dose:

  • Experiencing withdrawal may have sensitized you to the drug and a larger dose will cause an adverse reaction.
  • Your receptors may have adjusted somewhat (upregulated) in the time you had withdrawal symptoms.
  • These drugs are vastly more powerful than they need to be and you want to be taking only the lowest EFFECTIVE dose.
  • You can always adjust the dosage upward if you find you need to.
  • If you can stabilize on a lower dose, you have less to taper when you finally do go off.
• After reinstatement, the amount of time needed to alleviate withdrawal symptoms (stabilizing) varies according to the individual. Relief can be felt immediately, after some weeks, or after some months.
• Once you feel withdrawal symptoms are reduced after reinstatement, give your nervous system time to stabilize before attempting dosage reduction. Think in terms of months, not days.
• Be patient after you reinstate. Reinstatement may not immediately eliminate all withdrawal symptoms. You may still experience waves of symptoms, which usually lessen as time goes on.
• The dose needed for effective reinstatement varies according to the individual.
• Sometimes reinstatement does not work. The nervous system has taken such a hard hit from withdrawal, it's destabilized beyond whatever effect the drug might have had.
• Sometimes reinstatement not only does not work, it causes an adverse reaction from a nervous system sensitized by withdrawal. If you have an immediate bad reaction, reduce or stop taking the drug.

   

  If, upon reinstatement, you very soon feel worse, most likely you are sensitized to the drug and need to take a smaller dosage or, possibly, none at all.

About benzo reinstatement http://www.benzosupport.org/notes_on_reinstatement.htm

Hey, Alto i reinstated back to ten beads yesterday early afternoon. At night i felt a wave of different symptoms. Very similar to the way i felt if I missed or was late on taking my effexor. Is this normal? Im trying to figure if i had a bad reaction or not and if i should continue at say five beads instead of ten. Any advice?

[drummerseve]

 

Hey guys, is it normal to feel messed up after reinstating?  Im wondering if its reinstating thats makin it worse for me now.

 

 

We have a topic about reinstatement here. Perhaps reading about others experiences with it might give you some support?

 

Everyone's body reacts differently. Being off the drug makes you feel bad because your body has not compensated yet to having the drug removed (that takes time) and adding some of it back in after a time of being off takes a bit of adjustment again too. The 2 states can co-exist and it takes a while to see if it will work.

 

The reinstatement amount might have to be adjusted too. You jumped at 10 beads and came back at ten beads after 6 wks. You might have to remove some beads from your reinstatement and keep in the back of your mind that reinstatement doesn't always work.

 

Read the topic I suggested and see if anything triggers for you. There is a LOT of information in the first few posts by Alto.

Ok thanks. So if reinstatement doesnt work do i taper off again? Or just stop say the 5 beads?